Sleeping bag question?

[Macgregor]

I'm going to be spending a few bucks on a good backpacking sleeping bag. I was wondering what you guys preferred down or synthetic. Pros/cons? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Wildfoot]

go for down unless you are going to be in a super wet climate.

Do not get a waterproof outer fabric (like gore dryloft) they do not breathe at all. Its like putting your down bag in a garbage bag.

Synthetic has about 1/4 - 1/10th the lifespan of down.
Synthetic takes up at least double the volume when packed.
Synthetic is a lot heavier.


650 is the minimum fill you should get in a sleeping bag. I prefer 700+ A good sleeping bag costs about 400 - 900, depending mostly on the quality of fill you choose.

Marmot makes awesome sleeping bags.
Feathered Friends makes a good bag too, along with Western mountaineering

[Tarp Man]

Oh, boy... GREAT TOPIC! I have not spent really primo dollars (over $300) on a sleeping bag, but the debate over down vs. synthetic is narrowing. The new synthetics are nearly as good as down, but where they shine is in prolonged damp or wet conditions. They maintain their insulation properties despite the moisture. Where synthetics fall to down is in compressibility with the higher fill power downs (ie. 700, 850, 900). If you want to do some reading, look up sleeping bags on the Mountain Equipment Co-op website. The save the world types like to keep warm when protesting injustices... www.mec.ca

[gearjunkierob]

I agree with everything Wildfoot says - except for I reccomend going with a water resistant shell fabric. I've spent a lot of time out there in the bush in all conditions. The problem with down is that it does not insulate when it gets wet. Days spent in moist/frosty tents can saturate the down in your sleeping bag, making it useless if one is not careful. The brand name recommendations from Wildfoot are all great. Another bag I would look into is the ones that Exped are making....they claim to make a "waterproof" sleeping bag with a waterproof outer fabric and welded seams....I don't know how waterproof it actually is but it sounds good in theory.

The other option for you would be to go with a down sleeping bag combined with an insulated waterproof overbag much like the MEC Emperor Penguin. The overbag actually acts to wick moisture away from your down, and traps whatever moisture can't move out in the overbag, keeping your down nice and dry. The other nice thing about the overbag system is you essentially have three bags in one. A down for moderate climates in dry conditions, an overbag for warm conditions when used by itself, and both used as together for colder climates, extended stays in moist environments, etc.

When picking any sleeping system, remember that a good insulating mattress is key for both your warmth and comfort. You can try the ultralight jobs out, but I would reccomend looking into the R value of the sleeping pad to find out how good the insulation in the pad is going to be before you make a purchase. A $900 down sleeping bag won't do you much good if the insulation of the bag is crushed up against the cold earth, which will suck the heat out of your sleeping bag and your body. Thermarest makes some great mattresses and Exped has recently been marketing an air filled down mattress that has a phenomenal R value for it's weight.

Good luck making your decision, and enjoy your research!

Rob

[B.C.Boy(100%)]

I've used Down and Synthetic bags both have there places, but the synthetic has the edge so far for my purposes.
Down did me no good when it was cold and wet out, and nothing in my kit stayed dry on that trip.
Same area again a year later, same weather mostly, had a synthetic bag, I didn't care that my stuff was wet from the never ending rain, I stayed warm at night.

I now use a North Face -7C synthetic bag it packs up nice and small and weighs in around 2.7lbs, on cold nights I use a Kelty fleece liner inside the sleeping bag, the combo kept me warm all night in -20C temps.

If I know that where I am going is going to be dry weather, then I opt for the down, but I wouldn't hestitate to use the synthetic just in case it has a chance of wet weather for any duration of a trip, or if I know I have rivers to cross by foot, where there's the chance of slipping and falling in (been there done that)

I currently use my down bag in a duvet cover as a bed cover in the house, I rely mainly on the synthetic bags nowadays, besides my North Face(s) came with a Lifetime Garentee that if I get cold, it gets replaced with a new one, not bad for $100/bag (that was a sale price, reg price was $270) I've never been a North Face products fan, but these bags were a pleasant surprise, and I give them an A+.
At that sales price I bought two.

I hope that sheds some more light for ya.

[kutenay]

I currently own and use down and synthetic bags by Integral Designs, Exped, Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering and have had several others including an original Marmot Mountain from Colorado that I used intensively for 21 years until it was stolen.

I have done a LOT of winter camping, worked in the bush living in unheated mountain tents for weeks at a stretch and used both down and synthetic bags for 43 years here in BC. I also sold bags as part of my final job before I retired at 55.

The FINEST down bags on today's market are Western Mountaineering, nothing else comes close. I will be buying another for serious winter camping in late autumn, to replace my Integral Designs Himalayan OF, a beautifully made bag that is a bit bulkier than I like for backpacking, but, superbly comfortable in base camp.

The FINEST synthetic bags are Integral Designs, I have a "North Twin"-An dromeda Overbag combo that is THE BOMB for hunting and I cannot recommend this setup too strongly, it is my "go-to"bag for all hunting. Mountain Magic in Surrey is the best place to buy these and they are "hunter-friendly".

MEC IS getting better, some of us who are among the original members have loudly complained about staff rudeness and it HAS helped, but, my experience with their bags when using them for forestry camps was pretty poor, you DO get what you pay for!

I use my down bags for everything except hunting and a Gore-Tex type shell IS far superior on a general purpose down bag as 30 years of use has taught me. I do like the superlight shell on my WM Alpenlite Supreme as I always use a bivy, anyway, even in August. I won't ever buy another heavy down bag without an Endurance or DryLoft shell and you use a VBL with this to stay dry in wet conditions.

I always carry an Exped Wallcreeper Primaloft bag when dayhiking, this is a REALLY useful emergency lifesaver, combined with an ID bivy or a Hilleberg bivanorak and a Z-rest. I agree on the Thermarest, have four of them and have had two wear out and disintegrate due to use. I also have a Big Agnes Insulated Air Core mat, had two, gave one to my pard and these are comfortable, but, fragile, a Ridgerest backup is good to have.

So, for hunting, where you will tend to beat your gear, go with an ID Primaloft bag, they do compress well and they are just a fine piece of gear. Their down bags are as well made and come in a range of sizes, especially good for wider/longer folks, but, WM bags have superior design for really cold weather.

For backpacking, climbing and such activities, a good down bag is STILL lighter for it's temp.rating, will outlast ANY synthetic and can last your lifetime with proper care. I store ALL of my bags in large cotton sacks from MEC on those ventilated plastic shelvinmg units here in damp Vancouver and it works real well.

Go with ID and WM, you WILL be glad you did!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Unless you're going to be exclusivley camping in a dessert, get some kind of water-resistant(proof) shell if you go down.

I was looking at WM Apache and Marmot's Helium EQ...decided on the EQ. Just ordered it last night. Compresses down to the size of a small loaf of bread8).

I believe Bramble's brother has the Helium non-EQ....leaky tent last fall on a sheep hunt......no water barrier=miserable cold sleep.

If you decide to go synthetic go for a Primaloft bag.....more compressable than a Polarguard bag......also better insulating properties when wet.

Synthetics are about half the price as a good down with water resistant properties.

SSS

[ratherbefishin]

sometimes you can pick up military bags in excellent condition from the BC asset disposal site.[ www.bcauction.ca ] I think I paid about $80 for one -almost brand new.Last week they were selling a variety of boots-some brand new,some almost new,and others quite worn-all for $10 a pair.The Goretex ones went first.Some of the stuff goes by auction-most of it is sold on site

[boatdoc]

Got to agree with Kutenay,Integral Designs bags are first rate.I have a north twin,the primaloft feels like a down bag.I have slept in a puddle of water (not on purpose,leaky tent) the pertex shell and primaloft did not absorb water.

[BANG!]

some great advice here already - so I'll only add a little bit.

Make sure that you get a bag that fits you well. Like a pair of boots or a jacket, it should fit you well. If it's too big, you're packing weight and bulk for no reason. If it's too small, you won't sleep well (due to being cold or restricted in your movements).

If you ever go camping with your wife - see if your bag's zipper is compatible with hers, (you get a Right Handed one, she gets a Left Handed one) then you can zip them together, for .... emergencies and such.

[Macgregor]

Thanks for the info guys. There's a lot of factors I didn't know about.

[mod7rem]

I just have a comment and a question. I have been using a down bag on sheep hunts for four years now(-9c rating) and I am very happy with it. It is light and passes moisture from my body through to the shell and dries easy. My question is about putting a water proof shell around your down, how is the moisture from your body supposed to get out. I thought a water proof shell was only supposed to be used with a vapour barrier liner(VBL)?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The best water resistant covers are supposed to breathe much like Gortex. Your body is at rest and doesn't produce as much moisture as hiking in Gortex where your body is sweating pretty good.

SSS

[kutenay]

The very best is the stuff used by Integral Designs on their winter bags; I had mine completely soaked, running with water, when my god*m North Face pos VE-2* blankety-blank tent partially gave way to a ferocious wind storm on the top end of the Santa Rosa in April, 2004.

I had just had the bag custom-made by ID and for four nights, it remained stone dry, completely comfortable and NEVER absorbed a drop; I have a VBL for it and use it in cold weather. I have used this combo, a GT shell plus VBL to live in mountain tents in the Flathead, Kokanee Glacier Park and other Kootenay locales for periods of from five days to six weeks, it plain works, but, a GOOD dwon bag with bivy and VBL costs major coin, well over a grand.

IF, you are a hunter and recreational vehicle camper, just buy a decent Polarguard bag from one of several big name makers and get inside it to check to see if it is comfortable. IF, a sales clerk doesn't INVITE you to do this, shop somewhere else, I buy at Mountain Magic and import my WM bags from American dealers.

IF, you are largely a bp-horse hunter, buy a Primaloft bag, the North Twin-Andromeda Overbag combo shown on the ID site under "special gear" is the best I have yet seen or used, just ideal for BC conditons.

IF, you are a lightweight, early-season alpine hunter and insist on the lightest bag for the warmth possible, then buy a Western Mountaineering Dryloft shelled bag that fits you. This should last a lifetime, if you look after it, so, the initial high cost is not that bad, much like good optics.

Your pack, your boots and your sleeping roll are THE crucial pieces of gear for comfortable, successful backpacking as your optics trump a fancy, pricey rifle for alpine hunting. Take your time, research, spend the coin and you should be good to go.