What shoudl we do abotu invasive whitetails?

[Gateholio]

Readinf the thread about the HUGE blacktail- oops he's a whitetail- in Bella Coola prompted this.

Some guys say "When whitetails move into an area, the compete wiht and push out the mule deer. We shoudl kill them all"

Others say "great, I'd love a WT season here"

Opinions?

[HD95]

They seem to manage well together in Fort St. John and surrounding areas

[Fisher-Dude]

Eat them. They are delicious. 8)

Game managers have kept restrictive seasons on whitetails for far too long. In the Okanagan, they reduced the whitetail limit to one buck from two after the late 90s die off. Now the population (over-population?) is insanely high, and the game managers are whining in the media about what to do with urban deer populations. Yet the season is still for one whitetail buck. Also, we have half the hunters we had when the limit in those areas was 2 whities.

My opinion is that whitetails have spread from traditional areas (regions 4 and 8 ) to other regions because of over-population in those traditional areas. It's time to lobby your regional bios for less restrictive seasons.

[tufferthandug]

They seem to be low-profile deer in region 5. A lot of arm-chair biologist's around Quesnel tried to predict the demise of Mule deer, with the approach of the Whitetail deer years ago.

Maybe it takes at least a half a century or more for whitetail's to really take hold? For now in my opinion region 5's mule deer are holding up very well. Both of them seem to co-exist quite well, with the exception of them crazy HYBRIDS...

[Elkhound]

My opinion is that whitetails have spread from traditional areas (regions 4 and 8 ) to other regions because of over-population in those traditional areas. It's time to lobby your regional bios for less restrictive seasons.

GOS?...all year round?....doe or buck? No limit? All of the above?

[browningboy]

I agree with Fisher dude, they require population control but that doesn't usually happen until they are invading and depleting our natural habitants (mule deer?)
This is a good reason for anterless open season as well for youth and seniors as well as the physically challenged to enhance our sport.:mrgreen:

[Seeadler]

Not sure they can be considered invasive if they arrived there under their own power.

[Steeleco]

Open the bucks for any buck any place, and the does for new and junior hunters. Hell if they're that abundant give out FREE tags to the newbies!!

[Fisher-Dude]

GOS?...all year round?....doe or buck? No limit? All of the above?

I wouldn't suggest pounding them. They are beautiful deer, and are great fun to hunt - wiley, cunning, and full of surprises. But I would suggest that when the population is exploding, that we increase bag limits and seasons, which are still at very conservative levels since the numbers were whacked by the hard 96/97 winters.

I like Brownieboy's idea of more opportunity hunts for youth, seniors, and disabled hunters. Urban bow hunts can yield some great bucks (biggest WT buck I have ever seen was leaving an orchard...it dwarfed my 162 incher). Why not open some bow only or bow/shotgun only hunts through December and January on private land? Youth bow opportunities during Christmas break, or even spring reading break in the lowlands, are excellent ideas, and there's a chance for good weather to hunt and keep kids' interest up. The private land enfranchisement proposals may go a long ways towards this.

Let hunters shoot 2 WT bucks again, as limits used to be 2 WT bucks or one WT and one MD before the die off. That way lots of hunters will dump a small WT buck early in the season for some fine table fare, and look for bone later - young deer have the biggest impact on habitat.

Currently, lots of guys save their WT tag for late season hunts and end up getting out-foxed by the big guys (right GG? :wink: ), and harvest no WT. They also save their tags because some just like to hunt later into November with snow on the ground and the bucks in rut - it's a "quality experience" for many (to me a quality experience is eating a WT steak), and with early MD closures in some areas, hunting WT prolongs the season.

[daycort]

loss of habitat is pushing deer out of there traditional areas, plus whitetails are not as picky when it comes to forage. they can eat just about anything. about as bad as a domestic goat.

[Kirby]

Year round GOS antlered and antlerless no bag limit, with a 50 dollar bounty on every tail brought in. Set up bait traps and hire sharp shooters to eliminate those that the hunters can't get. Damn dink rat deer.

Kirby

[Fisher-Dude]

with a 50 dollar bounty on every tail brought in.

Kirby

How much will Steveo and Matt get for blacktail tails? :rolleyes:

[oscar makonka]

What can you do about whitetails. Not much, youd have to put a bounty and no closed season and no limit, as long as the habitats good and the weather dosent kill them off they will prosper. They are there because the habitat has been altered by logging and farms created a niche for them, it just took a century for them to work their way west and colonize it. they will not drive out the muleys as long as there is suitable habitat for them.

We have whitetails here in northwest Alberta for nearly 100 years, muleys foreaver, whites were not native in this area but followed the settlers when they opened the farmland and logging. the mule deer took a hit, not because the whites drove them out but because the total number of deer increased when the whites moved in and the seasons were just deer season without seperate tags, just deer tags, as the numbers of settlers increased so did the deer harvest, the muleys are less wary and slower to react and got overharvested. When they put muleys on draw and closed mule deer hunting in some areas they bounced back and are healthy in population nowadays. We have great mule deer hunting here, and even better whitetail hunting as they are everywhere like rats. It's very common to see mixed herds yet it is very, very, extremely rare that they interbreed.

I would look at it as a bonus, you now have two types of deer to hunt there soon, and in a few years as they increase in population you will still be able to take your muley buck plus a whitetail or three too boot.

[hunter1947]

We can't change nature ,let it be the way it is ,if whitetails move onto the coast line ,so be it. If you take a look up around the peace river area ,they the whitetail and mulies are doing great living with one and an other ,and they are populating like crazy.

[todbartell]

I love whitetails, lets kill off the mulies :mrgreen:

[Walksalot]

I think the whitetail are incredible animals. Adaptable to just about any situation and when one has matured to be sporting an impressive rack it is a trophy which, most of the time, is a hard animal to bag.
To me, nothing is more thrilling than to have a tree stand over an scrape line. Trying to figure out how and from which direction he will enter the scrape. Many a hour I have spent with my bow, sitting in a tree stand,trying to bag a mature whitetail.

Having said that, they are adaptable to the point we see them in traditional mule deer country. We find whitetail, in the Okanagan, on the open ridges in the high country.

Do they force out the mule deer? If they are found in traditional mule deer habitat then they are going top compete with the mule deer for that habitat. More mouths to feed means more competition for the existing habitat and I am not knowledgeable enough on the feeding habits of either species to make an educated guess either way.

I don't think it is the summer range which is as important as the winter range for sustainability of both species.

[Ride]

Whitetails are superior competitors when compared to mule deer. Whitetails just seem to adapt quick and can live anywhere, which is why we are seeing them in more and more areas of the province. The biggest whitetail i ever saw was in the subalpine. Absolute monster. Whitetails won't kill off the mule deer in this province. They will just adapt to use areas that mule deer don't and areas they do. Whitetails and mule deer can live side by side and not wipe each other out.

[Gateholio]

One good thing is we will be able to better utilize the American hunting magazines " Ten great tips to Bag your Buck!" articles.:mrgreen:

[Fisher-Dude]

One good thing is we will be able to better utilize the American hunting magazines " Ten great tips to Bag your Buck!" articles.:mrgreen:

Join Clarkey Bushman on Buckmasters, Sunday mornings on ESPN. In this week's episode, Clarkey sets scent bombs and rattles up a fine dinky dog rat whitetail buck on the Bella Coola Ranch. Don't miss it!

This week's program is sponsored by Steveo32's Coastal Blacktailed Whitetail Adventures Ltd.

[steveo32]

you guys are just jelous that some of us are not tied down with familys and actaully get out and see some wild life other then cj's on friday night. I still beleive it is a blacktail and no one on this great site has proved me wrong with with either pictures or words right out fo a bio's mouth.i callange you all to prove me wrong And yes i am calling you out:mrgreen:

steve

[Walksalot]

http://www.boone-crockett.org/pdf/muletpsc.pdf

[ratherbefishin]

The biologists are supposed to have a handle on all this-[LEH restricting harvest] so it ought to work the other way as well-increased bag limits

[Jelvis]

Whitetail fawns, breed, and have babies, muley fawns, don't, so thats a big reason why. also whitetails are more agressive territorially then the shyer mule deer, mule deer like hilly, rocky, semi open, forest, whitetails like creek bottoms and river edges in valley bottoms where theres thicker natural cover, Mule deer herd up on winter range, easier to see. A mule deer will stop and look back when chased at the crest of a hill. A mule deer is a product of a whitetail and a blacktail copulation, do you believe it? or not!

[Phil]

I'm no biologist but the development of the whitetail population may be of some use to us as the pine forests are diminished by the pine beatle. Hopefully some species of deer will be able to endure the habitat without an abundance of good cover that is currently provided by the pine. It has been said that the whitetail is better able to adapt to new environments. This may be its time to shine and keep hunting alive in areas the the mule deer can not. A little diversity might be a blessing.

[dana]

The fact is most ungulate pops are booming right now. The spread of the whitetail is a simple fact that we have been experiencing milder winters than normal. The old timers tell me that my area of the province once had a very large whitetail herd. Back in the warm years of the 20's and 30's they thrived and then were hit severely hard due to the hard winters of the 60's and 70's. They just can't move around in the deep snow like the muley can. The muley stots. Deep snow is not an obsticle to him. The whitey instead yards up. The lions and the wolves pick them off pretty easy when they yard up.
What happened in the 20's and 30's? Hot dry spells with incredible forest fires. The ungulates flourished because of that. What is happening right now. Hot dry spells, forest fires and massive insect kills. The pine beetle is actually a great thing for our ungulates. While we log like mad men trying to salvage something out of the timber, we are mimicing large natural disturbance types like those that fire produce. What we can't or won't log, will see increased light to the canopy floor, thus plant species that have been choked out will flourish. We can expect that these places will become blowdown nightmares, which is all good for ungulates looking for great escape terrain with a lot of feed and a ton of cover. Also, we can expect fires that will make 2003 look like a tea party. This is a good thing for our wildlife.
Is global warming real or is this just a trend, much like the 20's and 30's? I suppose only time will tell. But, I suspect we will see the winters return and the poor little dinky dog whitey will get kicked out of the country they tried to lay claim too. :)

[boxhitch]

Whitetail fawns, breed, and have babies, muley fawns, don't, so thats a big reason why. !
Are you saying Whitetail breed the first season, at 7-8 months ? Mulie does don't ? Interesting....

A mule deer is a product of a whitetail and a blacktail copulation, do you believe it? or not!
:) :) :)

[Gateholio]

Join Clarkey Bushman on Buckmasters, Sunday mornings on ESPN. In this week's episode, Clarkey sets scent bombs and rattles up a fine dinky dog rat whitetail buck on the Bella Coola Ranch. Don't miss it!

This week's program is sponsored by Steveo32's Coastal Blacktailed Whitetail Adventures Ltd.

I'd make a great TV hunting show host...I've got a good voice that you can understand (unlike Bushman), I won't make any black gun faux pas ;like Zumbo, and I'm at least as good looking as Shockey. Probably got a hat and a scarf around here somewhere, too!

And I can cook:-D

[browningboy]

I'd make a great TV hunting show host...I've got a good voice that you can understand (unlike Bushman), I won't make any black gun faux pas ;like Zumbo, and I'm at least as good looking as Shockey. Probably got a hat and a scarf around here somewhere, too!

And I can cook:-D



Hire this man , he speaks wisdom beyond his years!

[mrdoog]

"A mule deer is a product of a whitetail and a blacktail copulation, do you believe it? or not!"

If you believe that then you owe a certain young man an apology regarding about seeing fields of hybrids.

Dana, I've seen lots of old photos from "your" area from the 20, 30 and 40s, not a Whitetail amongst them.

This is no mystery, check out the history of Moose migration.

[dana]

Doog,
The old timers were probably too embarassed to take pics of the dinky dog rat deer they killed. :) I have a reference book about Well Gray that states there were quite a few whitetails in there in the 40's and 50's and then they died out. The book listed them as an Unknown species, meaning they are uncertain if any are still there or not.

[hunter1947]

you guys are just jelous that some of us are not tied down with familys and actaully get out and see some wild life other then cj's on friday night. I still beleive it is a blacktail and no one on this great site has proved me wrong with with either pictures or words right out fo a bio's mouth.i callange you all to prove me wrong And yes i am calling you out:mrgreen:

steve I am 100% behind you on this issue ,prove me wrong as well.

[Walksalot]

I'm no biologist but the development of the whitetail population may be of some use to us as the pine forests are diminished by the pine beatle. Hopefully some species of deer will be able to endure the habitat without an abundance of good cover that is currently provided by the pine. It has been said that the whitetail is better able to adapt to new environments. This may be its time to shine and keep hunting alive in areas the the mule deer can not. A little diversity might be a blessing.

Some pine stands are so thick that nothing grows below the canopy. I think we will see, as the trees rot and fall over or are logged off, deciduous growth getting established in the under story and new habitat will be created. This should promote an increase in all ungulate populations. If the beetle killed trees can't be logged then controlled burns might be an alternative. The key word here is controlled.

[Mik]

To answer the original, question....HUNT THEM!!!! They are a great challenge.
As a side note: There are areas that I have been hunting for 20 years that have had W/T and MD living side by side ( in the last 2 yrs, I believe that there are now Hybrids) and other areas that are solely for MD, then W/T. In the end, meat in the freezer is meat in the freezer..:D

[Jelvis]

There are no purebred species of anything including humans, time has mixed and natural selection has taken over, so don't be lookin for pure bred anything, you ain't gonna find any, everyone's entitled to my opinion. lol can I get a witness?

[hunter1947]

It doesn't matter what they become ,just hunt them and put the meat in the freezer ,there delicious:mrgreen:.