Resoluition to be presented at BCWF Region 3 quarterly meeting

[Jagermeister]

I am adamantly opposed to this proposal. I consider it to be the "last nail in the coffin" for the resident hunter and will send the hunter numbers into oblivion.
Read on.

A) Resolution re: Moose harvest to require two (2) tagsfor each moose harvested.

WHEREAS: moose numbers are down inmost regions of BC, and

WHEREAS: access is far more openand safe habitat is being lost due to forest fires and large clear cuts by theforest industry, and

WHEREAS: predation by wolves and bear has had amajor impact on moose, especially calves in their early weeks and months oftheir lives, and

WHEREAS: hunting today should be a form ofrecreation and done in a sporting fashion,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED: that theBCWF put pressure on the government departments involved to make changes in thehunting regulations to make it that it would require hunters to lead the wayand make the regulations so that it would take two tags to harvest one moose.

(Passed at a meeting of North Thompson Fish& Game Club - Oct. 24, 2016)

[Jagermeister]

In other words both you and your hunting partner would have to cancel your respective tags upon bagging a moose. What happens if you hunt alone?

[Fella]

Ya that's dumb. Here's a thought: restore habitat and cull predators first, THEN put forward asinine ideas like this. How in the hell is this considered a solution to the moose problem??? Whoever thought this up needs to give their head a shake.

[BCMarc]

Seems like an underhanded way of halving the number of tags available.

[Fisher-Dude]

More hunting regulations will not increase the number of moose.

Why don't people understand that?

Jesus!

[Gateholio]

Weird idea......

[high and to the right]

But won't this will help in the long run because all guided hunts now will have to have two hunters per moose. LOL
Up until a few years ago I had been a solo hunter. I enjoyed the solitude for one week a year. That rule would have really affected me. I don't like it. Why would our Wild Life Federation recommend this? Did they do a survey of their members that I missed? I would have voted against it.

[Mulehahn]

Can I ask who or what club is proposing this? It would in no way affect the number of moose harvested. There would still becthe same number of LEH authorizations available, just require more people to enter. I could no longer enter a draw alone? It makes no sense

[Ourea]

Here's a thought: restore habitat and cull predators first, THEN put forward asinine ideas like this. How in the hell is this considered a solution to the moose problem??? .

Solutions require a plan.
Plans at this level, of big picture and long term resolution, require funding......and a lot of it.

Habitat enhancement requires funding.
To lobby gov takes $$$
To engage and educate FN takes $$$
To educate the "non hook and bullet" part of society on what the science based solution is to fix it...more $$$
This is how a bigger and more unified team can get built to help wildlife for the long term.

We, as hunters, can be our worst enemies due to our ignorance of dealing with the big picture and how to go about creating a long term and sustainable fix.

Fella, ur bang on.
Idiotic low elevation and ignorant proposals only serve to cripple our respect as a viable partner in this process and goal.

Trying to focus on harvest as a fix for an ever shrinking resource will do sweet f***k all to solve the problem.

[boxhitch]

........it would take two tags to harvest one moose.
(Passed at a meeting of North Thompson Fish& Game Club - Oct. 24, 2016)Sounds like an incomplete idea.
Move all moose to 'shared hunts' ? Won't help populations, may put meat in more freezers. Trying to legislate the sharing of game? fail

Jag, were you asleep at the meeting? ;)

[adriaticum]

Well. I like it. Kind of.
I can find a scenario where this is better than the alternative.

Region 3 has been hit hard by pine beetle and moose habitat is all but gone.
Bcwf has no power or control over habitat restoration.
It is all in thr hands of government and forestry.
Region 3 is the most heavily populated after 2 and we know how many moose region 2 has.
Region 3 has been eaten up by cattle ranchers and their cattle. Maybe we should be shooting cattle to preseve the moose.?

I would have preferred control over indian harvest which is significant or outright end of gos for moose.

So yeah I like it. I think it will give moose a bit of a break for a while.
Or who knows we may see moose season extended to the levels of region 2 moose seasons permanently.

So feel free to call me stupid I won't take it personally.

[Iltasyuko]

This is a joke right?

[Fisher-Dude]

So yeah I like it. I think it will give moose a bit of a break for a while.



A break from what? A miniscule harvest that doesn't affect moose populations?

Put a bandaid on your forehead when you're having a massive heart attack. At least you'll be giving your forehead a break.

[Wild one]

All I am going to say is this has got to be one of the stupidest options one could think off

WTF were they thinking lol

[Bonz]

lol, bout as funny as thinking a carbon tax will stop earths natural progress, more money and moose grow?
typical non profits, looking for money again and not the real issues.
why not 1 mention of another issue most us see as the main one. like all same laws out there.

[Downwind]

Well. I like it. Kind of.
I can find a scenario where this is better than the alternative.

Region 3 has been hit hard by pine beetle and moose habitat is all but gone.
Bcwf has no power or control over habitat restoration.
It is all in thr hands of government and forestry.
Region 3 is the most heavily populated after 2 and we know how many moose region 2 has.
Region 3 has been eaten up by cattle ranchers and their cattle. Maybe we should be shooting cattle to preseve the moose.?

I would have preferred control over indian harvest which is significant or outright end of gos for moose.

So yeah I like it. I think it will give moose a bit of a break for a while.
Or who knows we may see moose season extended to the levels of region 2 moose seasons permanently.

So feel free to call me stupid I won't take it personally.

Saying there are no moose in Region 2 because of hunting is like saying there are no giraffe in Region 2 because of hunting. Why? Because they were never there! Moose in Region 3 didn't show up until they moved in due to forestry just over a 100-150 years ago. Hunting rights have been restricted enough in that region. Cancelling 2 tags for one moose is ridiculous. Like was stated, what if you hunt solo? Now you're not allowed to hunt moose? You're not stupid but your conclusions are out in left field.

[Downwind]

lol, bout as funny as thinking a carbon tax will stop earths natural progress, more money and moose grow?
typical non profits, looking for money again and not the real issues.
why not 1 mention of another issue most us see as the main one. like all same laws out there.

This 'non profit' is not asking for money so you might want to re-read the proposal. RMEF, Ducks Unlimited both have helped increase elk and migratory bird populations levels grow back levels they were at or above pre-colonial times so yes more money CAN make moose grow, so to speak. Educating people about the issue takes money. Rebuilding habitat takes money. Educating all user groups on how they can help improve numbers so there are more moose for everyone in the future and for future generations takes money.
The laws surrounding FN hunting are not going to change, at least not in foreseeable future so it's better to work with than against. Resident Hunters will be the group to lose out first.

[digger dogger]

Well. I like it. Kind of.
I can find a scenario where this is better than the alternative.

Region 3 has been hit hard by pine beetle and moose habitat is all but gone.
Bcwf has no power or control over habitat restoration.
It is all in thr hands of government and forestry.
Region 3 is the most heavily populated after 2 and we know how many moose region 2 has.
Region 3 has been eaten up by cattle ranchers and their cattle. Maybe we should be shooting cattle to preseve the moose.?

I would have preferred control over indian harvest which is significant or outright end of gos for moose.

So yeah I like it. I think it will give moose a bit of a break for a while.
Or who knows we may see moose season extended to the levels of region 2 moose seasons permanently.

So feel free to call me stupid I won't take it personally.

How many moose have you harvested?
Take a break from moose hunting! Hahaha

You do know why moose dont, roam the LML, FV?
Same reason the Island has no moose.
The odd moose in Hope, usually in Years of a lot of snow.
The end of hunting, is near,(for all but indians) if this bullshit is past
as law, 1st moose, then the rest.
Once our f'd up gov, gives all wildlife to the "keepers of the land" it will be a free for all, with no way to police it.
VERY SAD, WHAT IS HAPPENING!

[digger dogger]

How about more planes, more helicopters, more wolf culling?

[butcher]

This was passed at the North Thompson club? Holy smokes what a silly plan.

[landphil]

I guess solo moose hunters would just have to leave half the animal.

What the heck were they smoking at that meeting to come up with this idiocy?

[tigrr]

No 1 fix will solve the lower moose numbers.
1 stop the natives from shooting cows, keep track of the numbers they shoot.
2 cull a few grizzly and wolves in the country.
3 shrink the harvest in low number proven areas.

[guest]

IMO.
sure hope this doesn't lass as a resolution.
It dies nothing to increase moose numbers. We already have shared hunts. Predator kill, habitat restoration and ACCOUNTABILITY of numbers from all hunters and F N Hunters including LIMITING their harvests, to report ALL harvests. Not just moose.

my 2 cents

CT

[XPEIer]

How would this even look. Is it another segment of LEH or will they be cancelling any GOS for Spike Fork or what. If my wife and I each have a moose tag and I shoot one, what do we do, she is home on the couch and needs to cut her tag. Does the second tag hunter need to be along on the trip??? I hunt with numerous people, if I am holding onto my bull moose tag for a trip up North and he shoots a bull am I supposed to cut my tag,,,, dont think so.

I think we are about to see a slow down of massive clear cuts as we are running out of wood, except for the Spruce Beetle that is taking off now. Road deactivation needs to happen more frequently and a general plan put in place for moose recovery based on habitat not start with harvest rates and continue to rape and pillage the habitat.

XPEIER

[Bonz]

This 'non profit' is not asking for money so you might want to re-read the proposal. RMEF, Ducks Unlimited both have helped increase elk and migratory bird populations levels grow back levels they were at or above pre-colonial times so yes more money CAN make moose grow, so to speak. Educating people about the issue takes money. Rebuilding habitat takes money. Educating all user groups on how they can help improve numbers so there are more moose for everyone in the future and for future generations takes money.
The laws surrounding FN hunting are not going to change, at least not in foreseeable future so it's better to work with than against. Resident Hunters will be the group to lose out first.

bcwf is always asking for money, eveytime i ask something from them its all im asked about.
yes, more can help, if it actualy goes to the right areas and not as a donation to post others research. bcwf has their own researchers? and writting letters as they do now, hasnt seemed to do anything.
they refuse to look at all issues on this. as most are though. till they make this hunting a non racist law, it will never be solved, cant fix anything with only half the info..

[Bonz]

id even be fine with handing the natives free tags. but at a set number according to each band members or populations. and must be counted.
thats my main beef is that refusal to be counted, and first to lay blames.
then something needs to change with the cow/calf crap rights they have

[mcmullmar]

The more complicated the system, the more poaching is going to happen. I would be open to LEH for all regions

[Bernie O]

There is no need to get all excited. This is why we have the resolution process, So everyone THAT ATTENDS MEETINGS can have their say. If you don't like this proposal attend the meeting and vote against or have your delegate vote against, I do not think its a good idea, But do not blame the club where it came from, at least they had an idea. I don't see too many other ideas on here other than saying no.

[Wild one]

There is no need to get all excited. This is why we have the resolution process, So everyone THAT ATTENDS MEETINGS can have their say. If you don't like this proposal attend the meeting and vote against or have your delegate vote against, I do not think its a good idea, But do not blame the club where it came from, at least they had an idea. I don't see too many other ideas on here other than saying no.

Do a search lots of ideas have been passed around this forum in regards to moose. This is the worst if not it is top 3

I don't blame the BCWF I blame those that support it. Now if the BCWF supports this and it gets pushed through than I will not be impressed

As for going to meetings many have there reasons. Want a greater turn out maybe look into why people don't show

[adriaticum]

A break from what? A miniscule harvest that doesn't affect moose populations?

Put a bandaid on your forehead when you're having a massive heart attack. At least you'll be giving your forehead a break.

Yes minuscule harvest today.
Much larger harvest 30 years ago.
Can you draw a trend line from that?

[limit time]

Where the hell is jassmine ?? I would love to here what she or maybe he or transgender ( gotta be PC) has to say about this.

[RiverOtter]

Yes minuscule harvest today.
Much larger harvest 30 years ago.
Can you draw a trend line from that?
Habitat loss and increased predator pops, combined with increased access, which also benefits preds.

I'd say it runs fairly close with the pine beetle epidemic, as that's about 30 years now.

[sthdslayer]

Its good to see people are thinking about the problem, but any solutions put forward must be able to produce measurable results this would do absolutely nothing
other than piss everyone off. I would assume that prior to even coming up with this idea never mind thinking it was a good one they would do some research on what the issues really are .
Here is the position of fish and wildlife bc
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/provincial_framework_for_moose_management_bc.pdf

[Bonz]

There is no need to get all excited. This is why we have the resolution process, So everyone THAT ATTENDS MEETINGS can have their say. If you don't like this proposal attend the meeting and vote against or have your delegate vote against, I do not think its a good idea, But do not blame the club where it came from, at least they had an idea. I don't see too many other ideas on here other than saying no.

werent we just told yesterday only certain people have any say or vote in the other reg 2 meeting?. or only reg 2 does it that way?
way it was posted yesterday, it takes more than just showing up to have any say. didnt they have to be ellected by some clubs to vote or speak?

[horshur]

Yes minuscule harvest today.
Much larger harvest 30 years ago.
Can you draw a trend line from that?

much of the moose harvest numbers loss in region three can be pinned on the mountain caribou initiatives. Look back through the leh regs you will see liberal cow tags. So in conjuction with high wolf predation and female harvest, management crashed some moose herds to theoretically crash wolves but they ended up dispersing the dogs instead.
In crashing the moose numbers in the caribou areas they also lost the dispersal from said areas which happened to be very productive.

post up the harvest numbers.

[Wild one]

werent we just told yesterday only certain people have any say or vote in the other reg 2 meeting?. or only reg 2 does it that way?
way it was posted yesterday, it takes more than just showing up to have any say. didnt they have to be ellected by some clubs to vote or speak?


Its common for most orginizations to have politics issues. Often it is represented by those who are voted in to set positions. From past experience in other orginizations these people are voted in by a very small % of the orginizations membership. This is often because only a small portion take the time to vote due to time restraints or just don't care.

Often this creates a situation where " Old guard " stays in power. It often becomes clicky and even new blood is groomed by old guard. Because of this many get drowned out when they first arrive and most step away rather than bring in new views.

Club politics are often a pain in the a$$ and usually you only see true change when ranks get divided by someone with strong will. Often resaults in a crash and rebuild because of this many will support old guard to keep peace and not loose members. Making it difficult for any change

Been through this drama process a few times got stress and a few grey hairs to prove it lol

This one of the reasons you get crazy things proposed

[Wild one]

much of the moose harvest numbers loss in region three can be pinned on the mountain caribou initiatives. Look back through the leh regs you will see liberal cow tags. So in conjuction with high wolf predation and female harvest, management crashed some moose herds to theoretically crash wolves but they ended up dispersing the dogs instead.
In crashing the moose numbers in the caribou areas they also lost the dispersal from said areas which happened to be very productive.

post up the harvest numbers.


One of the stupidest plans ever put in to place by wildlife managment.

[Gamebuster]

much of the moose harvest numbers loss in region three can be pinned on the mountain caribou initiatives. Look back through the leh regs you will see liberal cow tags. So in conjuction with high wolf predation and female harvest, management crashed some moose herds to theoretically crash wolves but they ended up dispersing the dogs instead.
In crashing the moose numbers in the caribou areas they also lost the dispersal from said areas which happened to be very productive.

post up the harvest numbers.

this hasn't been done in region 3. 4 and 7a only

[180grainer]

In other words both you and your hunting partner would have to cancel your respective tags upon bagging a moose. What happens if you hunt alone?
Exactly, so a guy can't go out on his own? Not a good resolution at all. Be better to enact something like having 100% of license fees going back into conservation and environmental enforcement. Wolves, bears, and un-monitored and uncontrolled FN hunting is the issue. If they're not dealt with properly, we will eventually lose the vast amount of hunting opportunity we have right now......which this proposal is just another small step in that direction. Attacking the only group who is heavily regulated, monitored, and financially sodomized for the opportunity to participate in our heritage isn't the answer. Who are these guys at the BCWF that are promoting this?

[1899]

(Passed at a meeting of North Thompson Fish& Game Club - Oct. 24, 2016)

Very curious if a representative of the club is a member here and whether they would comment on this. How do I say this tactfully....IMHO on the face of it the resolution reflects quite poorly on the club's ability to come up with meaningful and pragmatic solutions to the problem.

[Bonz]

all i see is bcwf gets a bit more money on tag sales. and like others have mentioned. shuts all us solo guys down,

id like to hear what they propose to do...differently this time as they claim they`ll pressure gov. thought they were already suposed to be doing that?
what sort of pressure we talking about

[landphil]

Very curious if a representative of the club is a member here and whether they would comment on this. How do I say this tactfully....IMHO on the face of it the resolution reflects quite poorly on the club's ability to come up with meaningful and pragmatic solutions to the problem.

I commend your tactfulness!

Makes my comments look like something from a presidential election debate! :)

[r106]

We seen more moose this year in the area of r3 we hunt than any year previous by a huge amount. Which was awesome to see. and from what we have seen there this year the native harvest in that area will be high this year. habitat is the number one concern but unregulated harvest is a huge concern as well. if numbers truly are getting dangerously low then I support a more restrictive harvest but it needs to include all Canadians.

[1899]

all i see is bcwf gets a bit more money on tag sales. and like others have mentioned. shuts all us solo guys down,

id like to hear what they propose to do...differently this time as they claim they`ll pressure gov. thought they were already suposed to be doing that?
what sort of pressure we talking about

You realize this is not the BCWF's idea, right? It is the North Thompson Fish& Game Club's resolution.

[Spy]

You realize this is not the BCWF's idea, right? It is the North Thompson Fish& Game Club's resolution.
Excuse my ignorance but what region is ^^^^^ ? As for people showing up to vote, who has their AGM in the middle of hunting season when all members are away hunting????? This is so ridiculous and its not even April??? Are people freaking brain dead? This sounds like a plan Jasmine would come up with. I just shake my head or maybe we should all be bashing our heads against the ****ing wall. :-(

[Bonz]

You realize this is not the BCWF's idea, right? It is the North Thompson Fish& Game Club's resolution.

oh, thought cause it was called a bcwf meeting the info was theirs, so what did this have to do with them then? just passing on info from that club?
so the club is saying bcwf will pressure?.
sorry, this meeting stuff is newish to me how it works or who`s involved

[Wild one]

Excuse my ignorance but what region is ^^^^^ ? As for people showing up to vote, who has their AGM in the middle of hunting season when all members are away hunting????? This is so ridiculous and its not even April??? Are people freaking brain dead? This sounds like a plan Jasmine would come up with. I just shake my head or maybe we should all be bashing our heads against the ****ing wall. :-(

Best way to keep a vote going in the detection you want it to is hold it when most are busy. Easy to sway a vote when you have an idea on who is showing up.

[1899]

oh, thought cause it was called a bcwf meeting the info was theirs, so what did this have to do with them then? just passing on info from that club?
so the club is saying bcwf will pressure?.
sorry, this meeting stuff is newish to me how it works or who`s involved

From the OP's post it looks like the North Thompson Fish & Game Club passed a resolution and that resolution will be presented AT the BCWF's region 3 quarterly meeting.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

all i see is bcwf gets a bit more money on tag sales. and like others have mentioned. shuts all us solo guys down,

id like to hear what they propose to do...differently this time as they claim they`ll pressure gov. thought they were already suposed to be doing that?
what sort of pressure we talking about

The BCWF gets money from tag sales?

This is is a poorly thought out proposal that shouldn't make it past
the regional level.

Much ado about nothing

[Bonz]

i thought they always talked about them getting portion of tag money?.

[Wild one]

i thought they always talked about them getting portion of tag money?.

Has not happened

[Spy]

The BCWF gets money from tag sales?

This is is a poorly thought out proposal that shouldn't make it past
the regional level.

Much ado about nothing
It is so ridiculous, sounds like they were all drunk at the meeting they should all be fired.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

It is so ridiculous, sounds like they were all drunk at the meeting they should all be fired.

It's hard to fire volunteers

[Spy]

It's hard to fire volunteers
Yes I know, but you get the point.

[Fisher-Dude]

Yes minuscule harvest today.
Much larger harvest 30 years ago.
Can you draw a trend line from that?

The same number of moose hunters in the region 30 years ago (4700 - 5000) as there are now. Harvest is now 55% of what it was (475 compared to 835).

We've restricted harvest by 45% yet populations have now declined. We had more moose when it was any bull GOS.

Maybe we'll realize that harvest isn't the issue, as stiffer regulations didn't help moose numbers. By focussing on regulations, we've failed to do anything for moose.

Regulations manage hunters. We need to manage moose.

[Fisher-Dude]

Who are these guys at the BCWF that are promoting this?

Nobody at the BCWF is promoting this, nor will they.

It's an idea of the North Thompson Fish & Game Club.

[Hunterguy]

I'm for getting rid of the group and shared hunt for moose with the leh.

[Bernie O]

All resolutions must be passed at the club level, It then advances to the regional level meeting [Nov 20 in Kamloops]
If it is passed at the regional meeting [Highly doubtfull] it goes to the BCWF agm where it will be debated and voted on again by all delegates from those clubs that bother to send any, If a resolution is passed at the agm it is then presented to the government for action or not as they see fit. I hope this somewhat explains the process for those that don't know. Also this has been on the region 3 agenda for over 2 weeks and I think we are only seeing fear mongering here.

[adriaticum]

The same number of moose hunters in the region 30 years ago (4700 - 5000) as there are now. Harvest is now 55% of what it was (475 compared to 835).

We've restricted harvest by 45% yet populations have now declined. We had more moose when it was any bull GOS.

Maybe we'll realize that harvest isn't the issue, as stiffer regulations didn't help moose numbers. By focussing on regulations, we've failed to do anything for moose.

Regulations manage hunters. We need to manage moose.



So you do see that you are proving my point.

Moose are declining due to several factors of which we control only a few.
1. How many we harvest.
2. How many predators are in the area.

Since people don't really hunt wolves in an organized fashion to make a difference, the only real effect on moose populations is how many we harvest.

FNs harvest a significant number of moose I'd say, indiscriminately.

People need to get out of the head space "I will do something, if they do something" and lead by example.
What am I prepared to do to help the moose population.
How many people have voluntarily given up harvesting moose because they are concerned about moose numbers in their region?
I know a couple.

If everyone keeps thinking only about themselves and how they hunt and how much meat they want, moose will go the way of the bison.

Personally, I would end GOS for moose in region 3 period and cut down a number of LEH tags.
Or end moose season out right. Sometimes cold turkey is the best remedy to give that jolt in the arm everyone needs.
Maybe when people lose access to moose they will get off their ass and knock on government's doors, and write letters and put some effort into making a difference.


All I hear from old folk is how many moose they used to see.

I'd see a moose off the highways all the time 10 years ago and now I've driven 100 x more around region 3 and have seen none.

Population is increasing, development is increasing, forestry exploitation is increasing
So something has to be done, immediately.

[sthdslayer]

Giving up opportunity will have zero impact, how many spike two points are killed each year, yet they provide a lot of opportunity for people too hunt and get out. If you go to all LEH then we might as well take up golf because while you may see it as a gesture i see it as regulated hunting again bearing the brunt of govt inability to manage the real sources of the decline. Predators and unregulated hunting

[Wild one]

So you do see that you are proving my point.

Moose are declining due to several factors of which we control only a few.
1. How many we harvest.
2. How many predators are in the area.

Since people don't really hunt wolves in an organized fashion to make a difference, the only real effect on moose populations is how many we harvest.

FNs harvest a significant number of moose I'd say, indiscriminately.

People need to get out of the head space "I will do something, if they do something" and lead by example.
What am I prepared to do to help the moose population.
How many people have voluntarily given up harvesting moose because they are concerned about moose numbers in their region?
I know a couple.

If everyone keeps thinking only about themselves and how they hunt and how much meat they want, moose will go the way of the bison.

Personally, I would end GOS for moose in region 3 period and cut down a number of LEH tags.
Or end moose season out right. Sometimes cold turkey is the best remedy to give that jolt in the arm everyone needs.
Maybe when people lose access to moose they will get off their ass and knock on government's doors, and write letters and put some effort into making a difference.


All I hear from old folk is how many moose they used to see.

I'd see a moose off the highways all the time 10 years ago and now I've driven 100 x more around region 3 and have seen none.

Population is increasing, development is increasing, forestry exploitation is increasing
So something has to be done, immediately.

Many don't want to give up anything and rely on saying we make little impact. I do agree our impact is low compared to other issues. BC hunters just want to continue as is till we are cut right off

I don't think we will see the level of improvement most hope for. Yes if we work on big picture problems it will still get good long term results. These will take time to see results

Big ones that are needed is getting FN on board and get unregulated hunting levels under control. I think resident hunters may want to consider is giving up part of our harvest in negotiation with FN to get them to follow suite. I already know many will respond that they would not be willing to do this

[guest]

[QUOTE=Wild one;184669

Big ones that are needed is getting FN on board and get unregulated hunting levels under control. I think resident hunters may want to consider is giving up part of our harvest in negotiation with FN to get them to follow suite. I already know many will respond that they would not be willing to do this[/QUOTE]

How, can we give up more then what we already do? The Government will find away, they turn and run from FN issues.

Some Poachers and FN so called hunters shoot Cows, Calves, Does, Fawns, and yes the Bucks and Bulls all year long, even when they are at most vulnerable state, or low populations, or even when asked by the Chiefs to refrain.

Unless there is FULL ACCOUNTABILITY by all Residents, Non Residents and FN hunters, mandatory reporting of ALL harvest, unfortunately we will CONTINUE down this trail until there is nothing left.

How PATHETIC of the Canadian and Provincial Courts to allow PIT LAMPING, Zero accountability, Zero in responsibility, and Zero in Punishent to those guilty, Zero in bag limits .....no matter what Race you are. What fines are imposed if any are not enough.

its time for ONE LAW FOR ALL, until this happens, you can expect things to get much much worse. IMO

truly sad, we have seen the better of times. Our grand children are unlikely to ever see what we have had.

step up ....... All levels of Government and OPEN YOUR EYES, Do the right thing for a change.

IMO. CT

[adriaticum]

Many don't want to give up anything and rely on saying we make little impact. I do agree our impact is low compared to other issues. BC hunters just want to continue as is till we are cut right off

I don't think we will see the level of improvement most hope for. Yes if we work on big picture problems it will still get good long term results. These will take time to see results

Big ones that are needed is getting FN on board and get unregulated hunting levels under control. I think resident hunters may want to consider is giving up part of our harvest in negotiation with FN to get them to follow suite. I already know many will respond that they would not be willing to do this



I agree with you, but I do think there is hope, we have to keep trying.
Status quo certainly does not work and it will lead us down the same road of wildlife decline we've been on.
I am hoping that the pine beetle is a one off problem and will not become chronic.
I remember almost 10 years ago now sitting at Dutch Lake resort in Clearwater and looking everywhere around me the mountain tops were red/purplish.
That was an eye opening experience for me.

[horshur]

I agree with you, but I do think there is hope, we have to keep trying.
Status quo certainly does not work and it will lead us down the same road of wildlife decline we've been on.
I am hoping that the pine beetle is a one off problem and will not become chronic.
I remember almost 10 years ago now sitting at Dutch Lake resort in Clearwater and looking everywhere around me the mountain tops were red/purplish.
That was an eye opening experience for me.

lotsa pine around Clearwater??? are you sure?

[Wild one]

How, can we give up more then what we already do? The Government will find away, they turn and run from FN issues.

Some Poachers and FN so called hunters shoot Cows, Calves, Does, Fawns, and yes the Bucks and Bulls all year long, even when they are at most vulnerable state, or low populations, or even when asked by the Chiefs to refrain.

Unless there is FULL ACCOUNTABILITY by all Residents, Non Residents and FN hunters, mandatory reporting of ALL harvest, unfortunately we will CONTINUE down this trail until there is nothing left.

How PATHETIC of the Canadian and Provincial Courts to allow PIT LAMPING, Zero accountability, Zero in responsibility, and Zero in Punishent to those guilty, Zero in bag limits .....no matter what Race you are. What fines are imposed if any are not enough.

its time for ONE LAW FOR ALL, until this happens, you can expect things to get much much worse. IMO

truly sad, we have seen the better of times. Our grand children are unlikely to ever see what we have had.

step up ....... All levels of Government and OPEN YOUR EYES, Do the right thing for a change.

IMO. CT

The only reason I even consider this is FN point the finger at hunters just as hunters point the fingers at FN. I am thinking more so about using a portion of hunter harvest as a bargaining tool for something beneficial. It's more about playing the game to get results

Example personally if giving up part of hunters bull harvest in exchange for FN giving up cow harvest it would be worth while

Sometimes you need to give to get

[Piperdown]

Well i am glad i didn't renew my membership after what happened last year, and now this, f#ck me this is just plain crazy shit!

[Whonnock Boy]

For those of you who do not have a good understanding of the english language, or simply did not read previous comments, this was a motion put forth by one singular club. :lol: It has not been voted on by the regional board, nor has it been submitted or passed by the Provincial board.


Well i am glad i didn't renew my membership after what happened last year, and now this, f#ck me this is just plain crazy shit!

[adriaticum]

lotsa pine around Clearwater??? are you sure?

I didn't say there is lots of pine around Clearwater, from the pictures I have it's mostly spruce around there but pine beetle doesn't only attack pine.
Something was killing the trees around there and it wasn't me.

[Piperdown]

For those of you who do not have a good understanding of the english language, or simply did not read previous comments, this was a motion put forth by one singular club. :lol: It has not been voted on by the regional board, nor has it been submitted or passed by the Provincial board.

lol hey Troy just got in from hunting in region 3 sfa today :) no i didn't read the whole article but who ever put it together is a dip shit none the less, and yes i did not renew my membership after last year's gong show!

[mpotzold]

I am adamantly opposed to this proposal. I consider it to be the "last nail in the coffin" for the resident hunter and will send the hunter numbers into oblivion.
Read on.

A)Resolution re: Moose harvest to require two (2) tagsfor each moose harvested.

WHEREAS: moose numbers are down inmost regions of BC, and

WHEREAS: access is far more openand safe habitat is being lost due to forest fires and large clear cuts by theforest industry, and

WHEREAS: predation by wolves and bear has had amajor impact on moose, especially calves in their early weeks and months oftheir lives, and

WHEREAS: hunting today should be a form ofrecreation and done in a sporting fashion,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED: that theBCWF put pressure on the government departments involved to make changes in thehunting regulations to make it that it would require hunters to lead the wayand make the regulations so that it would take two tags to harvest one moose.

(Passed at a meeting of North Thompson Fish& Game Club - Oct. 24, 2016)


Same here! Let’s hope the proposal dies a quick death!

Proposed Resolution by the NTFGC is simply NONSENSICAL. Nobody in their right mind would ever consider making this a part of the Regs.


To study & control the moose numbers to be harvested proper management is essential. It's very difficult if not impossible to predict & draw any future plans in moose management when a group is allowed to harvest moose 24/7, day or night, any sex, any age, any number without reporting it for proper analysis.

Moose management is a guessing game & innacurate without those numbers & the details.
Section 35 rights are not absolute. Governments can limit these rights (e.g., to respond to concerns regarding conservation, public safety and health).

Solutions
-In the name of conservation BC can & must require harvesting details. Because Sec.35 falls outside ofthe Charter of Rights and Freedoms a province can’t invoke the Notwithstanding Clause.

-control bear numbers. They not the wolves kill a considerable number of calves(some studies over 50%). Repeal the requirement for removal of edible portions. Impose a NBL periodically to control their numbers.

[horshur]

I didn't say there is lots of pine around Clearwater, from the pictures I have it's mostly spruce around there but pine beetle doesn't only attack pine.
Something was killing the trees around there and it wasn't me.

best look again.

[butcher]

best look again.

theres plenty of bug kill blowdown messing up my favourite spots.

[180grainer]

The only reason I even consider this is FN point the finger at hunters just as hunters point the fingers at FN. I am thinking more so about using a portion of hunter harvest as a bargaining tool for something beneficial. It's more about playing the game to get results

Example personally if giving up part of hunters bull harvest in exchange for FN giving up cow harvest it would be worth while



The only problem with that is, neither government nor the FN leadership can control what the FN hunters do. It's a completely unregulated free for all. Properly managing game populations with this reality staring us in the face has been going on for years. If non-FN hunting is going to be negatively impacted because of concerns over declining populations, we should have the right to at least know what impact the FN are having. We shouldn't give up anything until a proper accounting can take place. That's what the BCWF should be pushing for.

[Jagermeister]

Let's get something straight here. This IS NOT A BCWF MANDATE!
Some of you knuckleheads do not know the hierarchy of the BCWF. So let me explain.

There is your local fish and game club or association or whatever you want to call it.
Then there are your eight (8) BCWF regional districts that correspond to the Provincial Regional Management Units and each club in their particular zone, if a member of the BCWF, make up the membership of that zone. i.e. Chase F&G; Salmon Arm F&G; Nicola Valley F&G; etc. etc. are all members of Region 3 BCWF just like the Quesnel F&G and others in that zone are members to Region 5 and such as it is for all the regions.
Then there is the main body of the BCWF.

Each club takes it's particular concerns to the Region and the Region takes that concern to the Federation if the concern passes go at the regional meeting.
It's that time of year that resolutions are gathered by each club (or not) and presented for consideration to the regional meeting. If the resolution is worthy of the attending representatives and passes vote, then and only will it go the Fed for compilation and listing. The the list is returned to the clubs to be presented to the memberships of the clubs to determine whether to support or not. At the next BCWF AGM, your local club representatives will vote in accordance with the wishes of the club's membership.
This particular resolution is going the region for consideration. If the region deems it fit and it passes, then it will advance to the Fed for listing and each club will get to direct their representative to the next AGM (in Nelson) on whether to support or not.
I rather think that this resolution will not go beyond. It does open your eyes to the fact that there are still some among us that think that we hunters should continue to sacrifice ourselves in the name of conservation. The harsh reality is we have been there and done that ever since the implementation of the LEH to the benefit of the GOABC. I would include the Indians here too, but the fact is they will never acquiesce to any form of conservation measure and will continue to do what they do with their 10 million candlepower lights.

[Fisher-Dude]

So you do see that you are proving my point.

No, I'm disproving your pointless point.




Moose are declining due to several factors of which we control only a few.
1. How many we harvest.
2. How many predators are in the area.

Moose are not declining because of harvest.

Moose are declining because of lack of calf recruitment.



FNs harvest a significant number of moose I'd say, indiscriminately.

How do you know how many FN harvest? You don't. They don't track harvest and we don't track their harvest. You're guessing. You also can't change their constitutional rights, so quit beating your head against the wall on that issue.


People need to get out of the head space "I will do something, if they do something" and lead by example.
What am I prepared to do to help the moose population.
How many people have voluntarily given up harvesting moose because they are concerned about moose numbers in their region?
I know a couple.

Those people are doing nothing for moose. Harvest isn't the issue. If those people did something to make more moose, I'd applaud them. Unfortunately, they think they're doing their part, but they aren't.


If everyone keeps thinking only about themselves and how they hunt and how much meat they want, moose will go the way of the bison.

Personally, I would end GOS for moose in region 3 period and cut down a number of LEH tags.
Or end moose season out right. Sometimes cold turkey is the best remedy to give that jolt in the arm everyone needs.
Maybe when people lose access to moose they will get off their ass and knock on government's doors, and write letters and put some effort into making a difference.

Why? Won't help grow one more moose. We've cut seasons to next to nothing and moose are declining. Doesn't that tell you that continuing to do what has failed in the past is a stupid idea?



All I hear from old folk is how many moose they used to see.

They used to see those moose when we had a GOS from Sep 20 to Oct 31 for any bull.

Now we have Nov 1 - 15 spike fork only and a handful of high odds LEH, and moose are declining.

And you want to screw around with more season restrictions. Can't you see your folly?


I'd see a moose off the highways all the time 10 years ago and now I've driven 100 x more around region 3 and have seen none.

Get out of the truck!

I've seen a dozen moose in the past 3 weeks. Had a 2x1 run away because we couldn't ID him. Two monster bulls. Rest cow/calf pairs. Good action, moose if you know where to look. Part time Surrey boys may be outta luck!


Population is increasing, development is increasing, forestry exploitation is increasing
So something has to be done, immediately.

What you need to do is secure funding for moose recovery programs that include habitat enhancement and pred control.

Closing seasons won't grow one more moose.

[Wagonmaster]

Seems to me that there are two ways for there to be two tags available per moose. One is that a minimum of three hunters together would have to apply for a shared hunt, which would provide two tags, if one hunter got drawn. Supposedly two of those hunters would have to be present on the hunt to cut two tags. The second way would be for two individually successful applicants to get together on a hunt and take one moose. Doesn't seem very workable to me. Our group of eight hunters got one tag in 2012 and one in 2016, so, we were able to go on a moose hunt in two of the five years. In the two examples I outlined, we would not have been able to hunt for moose at all during the five years. I would say we are doing our part for conservation.

[Ry151]

The only reason I even consider this is FN point the finger at hunters just as hunters point the fingers at FN. I am thinking more so about using a portion of hunter harvest as a bargaining tool for something beneficial. It's more about playing the game to get results

Example personally if giving up part of hunters bull harvest in exchange for FN giving up cow harvest it would be worth while

Sometimes you need to give to get
this has already been done in the Cariboo Chilcotin area but when no record of the harvest numbers are available how are you suppose to see if it's working or being abided by?

[boxhitch]

Our group of eight hunters got one tag in 2012 and one in 2016, so, we were able to go on a moose hunt in two of the five years. In the two examples I outlined, we would not have been able to hunt for moose at all during the five years. I would say we are doing our part for conservation. sarc, right? )

[Rellick]

Hunting of any kind including predators has a low impact on numbers. Predator population is regulated by prey numbers. As prey numbers decline so do the predators. Simple.

This is strictly a habitat issue. Habit loss, habitat degradation. Blame it on forestry, the pine beetle, mining, pipelines, increasing population, increased backcountry access, whatever your flavour. But make no mistake the only reason for any game species decline is lack of habitat.

Until we as hunters and non hunters make demands and put up money for habitat protection and rehabilitation game populations continue to decline.

[180grainer]

How do you know how many FN harvest? You don't. They don't track harvest and we don't track their harvest. You're guessing. You also can't change their constitutional rights, so quit beating your head against the wall on that issue

I'm not sure, and perhaps you know, but requiring the FN to account for their harvest of any game animal would not violate their constitutional right to sustenance hunt or hunt for ceremonial purposes. As I understand it, the order of priority is conservation first, FN second, the rest of humanity third. If we are to have our opportunities to hunt infringed because of the argument that game populations are declining, while at the same time allowing the FN to continue hunting, it would seem an absolute requirement that Natives account for what they are doing in the bush "prior" to that taking place. To not do this brings the legitimacy of the whole legal frame work of segregated opportunity into disrepute.

[180grainer]

This is strictly a habitat issue. Habit loss, habitat degradation. Blame it on forestry, the pine beetle, mining, pipelines, increasing population, increased backcountry access, whatever your flavour. But make no mistake the only reason for any game species decline is lack of habitat.

Loss of habitat and access are significant issues. But it's a mistake to say they are "the only" issues. You're making that statement in a vacuum because you have no idea what impact unregulated FN hunting is having. You're simply regurgitating a politically correct position forced on us by a government that's too weak to address the one unknown factor impinging on game populations, FN hunting.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

And for the record, there are quite a few bat-shit crazy proposals put forward by some local clubs. Thankfully, close to 100% are shot down at the regional level.

I'm sure there are many on here that will agree with me.

[Bear Chaser]

Hunting of any kind including predators has a low impact on numbers. Predator population is regulated by prey numbers. As prey numbers decline so do the predators. Simple.

This is strictly a habitat issue. Habit loss, habitat degradation. Blame it on forestry, the pine beetle, mining, pipelines, increasing population, increased backcountry access, whatever your flavour. But make no mistake the only reason for any game species decline is lack of habitat.

Until we as hunters and non hunters make demands and put up money for habitat protection and rehabilitation game populations continue to decline.

Wrong.

Habitat loss is one part of the problem.
Ticks have taken their toll on moose throughout North America in part due to to our policies regarding forests and fire suppression for the past several decades. No fires and the Ticks have a chance to survive.
In addition during the moose numbers heyday of the seventies and eighties of BC we had near indiscriminate use of poison for wolf control as well as helicopter calls targeting large areas. During this time black bears had higher bag limits for the genuine hunters who bought tags. Farmers , ranchers, and target shooting kick checkers shot every black bear they saw. This isn't happening anymore to the degree that it did as well as legal hunters are shooting less for not wanting to deal with the meat. As a result black bear numbers are as high as ever at least where I live.
In the early nineties grizzly bears were put on a province wide LEH and then we're put on moratorium for several years due to political reasons. Now we have LEH again but it is not uncommon for a two week back country hunt to result in more grizzly sightings than moose and elk combined. I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with habitat loss.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Hunting of any kind including predators has a low impact on numbers. Predator population is regulated by prey numbers. As prey numbers decline so do the predators. Simple.

This is strictly a habitat issue. Habit loss, habitat degradation. Blame it on forestry, the pine beetle, mining, pipelines, increasing population, increased backcountry access, whatever your flavour. But make no mistake the only reason for any game species decline is lack of habitat.

Until we as hunters and non hunters make demands and put up money for habitat protection and rehabilitation game populations continue to decline.

As others have said habitat is an issue in many places but to say predation doesn't impact populations is
completely inaccurate. Wolves have had a serious impact on wildlife populations across western North America in the past 15 years. They are prolific breeders and are highly mobile. Clean out an area and move
on to the next area.
There is lots of data on low recruitment rates to support this.

SSS

[Bonz]

seems to be alot think its only 1 problem out there.

[Rellick]

I'm not wrong.

When in the 70s and 80s the forests were larger and more intact. You can't say it was bears and wolves that made the difference 30-40 years ago when the landscape has been considerably changed. When the area available for animals to survive is diminished. The predation by bears and wolves has minor impacts on ungulate populations, when compared to habitat loss. I'll give you a nod towards ticks, but again minor. Just review the impact of habitat loss on ungulate numbers in southern Ontario.

Every piece of the puzzle adds up to the whole. The biggest piece being habitat.

I agree that a vacuum is formed by not knowing the impact of FN hunting. I think there should be mandatory reporting for FN.

The biggest and only long term impact we can have on having good hunting in the future is defending and rehabbing habitat. Look to Ducks Unlimited, Trout Unlimited, or any other conservation group with ties to hunting or fishing. What is their mandate?

This is a good conversation and I'm becoming motivated to be more active in our community and in conservation. So thank you

[Rellick]

There is a lot of data to show wolves regulate breeding based on availability of prey.

[adriaticum]

No, I'm disproving your pointless point.

Moose are not declining because of harvest.
Moose are declining because of lack of calf recruitment.
How do you know how many FN harvest? You don't. They don't track harvest and we don't track their harvest. You're guessing. You also can't change their constitutional rights, so quit beating your head against the wall on that issue.
Those people are doing nothing for moose. Harvest isn't the issue. If those people did something to make more moose, I'd applaud them. Unfortunately, they think they're doing their part, but they aren't.
Why? Won't help grow one more moose. We've cut seasons to next to nothing and moose are declining. Doesn't that tell you that continuing to do what has failed in the past is a stupid idea?
They used to see those moose when we had a GOS from Sep 20 to Oct 31 for any bull.
Now we have Nov 1 - 15 spike fork only and a handful of high odds LEH, and moose are declining.
And you want to screw around with more season restrictions. Can't you see your folly?
Get out of the truck!
I've seen a dozen moose in the past 3 weeks. Had a 2x1 run away because we couldn't ID him. Two monster bulls. Rest cow/calf pairs. Good action, moose if you know where to look. Part time Surrey boys may be outta luck!
What you need to do is secure funding for moose recovery programs that include habitat enhancement and pred control.
Closing seasons won't grow one more moose.


Harvest is not the only factor for declining moose and it's not even a major factor.
But it's a contributing factor. If we wanted to grow moose, reducing harvest would help increase their numbers.

Do I know the numbers FNs harvest?
No. I don't know the exact number.
But I do know, that in one season, in the region I was at, I know of 1 adult bull moose harvested on an LEH tag, and I know of and have seen over a dozen cows, calves and bulls harvested by FNs.
I also do know that not many gringos are hunting moose in this region, and I see FNs armies cruising the hills shooting from their trucks.
So I can safely assume that, conservatively, very conservatively, FNs are harvesting twice as much as gringos.
You can take that to the bank.

Surrey boy doesn't hunt moose. I don't need that much meat. 1 deer is enough for me.
But I do see moose. But not from the highway like I used to.

So yes you are proving my point that BCWF is managing the decline of moose and more draconian measures will be required.
You are also opening up another point, that if FNs have a constitutional right we don't want to touch, forestry has a legal right we don't want to touch and BCWF is not willing work to affect it, what are you in fact doing?

BCWF is constantly talking about the need for more money.
You can find more money in the 90% of money collected from the licenses that you are not getting.
When you get that money, you can ask for more.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

There is a lot of data to show wolves regulate breeding based on availability of prey.

Wolves are very mobile. Lots of data to support that.
I Suppose you think habitat loss is the only factor in the demise of the mountain ecotype woodland caribou too?

The issue isn't simple when you deal with multi prey species.

Oh and welcome to HBC! Please feel free to post up some of your hunting experiences and pictures.

[squamishhunter]

Sounds like Bill 233 or whatever where we have guns all stored at a 'facility'

[Wild one]

The constant talk of habitat and that we can all agree it is the biggest issue gets me thinking

Once $ is generated for enhancing habitat what is the plan in place?

what are the legalities of making changes to the landscape?

is there going to be legal action put into play to try and change logging/mining practices?

what is the main goal develope feed, protect wintering areas, reclaim roads basicly what's the plan?

[1899]

The issue with habitat, IMO, is that the open nature of clear-cuts and road systems create access for ALL types of predators. Areas that were only accessible to the hard-core are now accessible by 2wd truck. The intricate road systems provide far reduced opportunities for ungulates to make a clean escape through road free areas of wilderness. The deactivation of roads is a joke too, as anyone with a quad or SxS can easily traverse 90% or more deactivation ditches. These open areas and roads are also highways for wolves in the winter. The open areas provide good blueberry habitat for bears.

I think we need REAL deactivation of roads in addition to road closures to keep all two legged predators out combined with intensive wolf cull (denning), plus increased bear hunting. Then, hopefully, we will see a recovery in moose populations.

[Spy]

The constant talk of habitat and that we can all agree it is the biggest issue gets me thinking

Once $ is generated for enhancing habitat what is the plan in place?

what are the legalities of making changes to the landscape?

is there going to be legal action put into play to try and change logging/mining practices?

what is the main goal develope feed, protect wintering areas, reclaim roads basicly what's the plan?
There is NO plan because the Government, Orgs ect can't get their shit together. Thats why we are all still arguing about the last moose on HBC. Sad but true :-(

[adriaticum]

There is NO plan because the Government, Orgs ect can't get their shit together. Thats why we are all still arguing about the last moose on HBC. Sad but true :-(

I somewhat disagree with you spy.
Government has a plan. And it doesn't include hunting.
The question is not what the government plan is.
The question is what the bcwf plan is

[Rellick]

Wolves are very mobile. Lots of data to support that.
I Suppose you think habitat loss is the only factor in the demise of the mountain ecotype woodland caribou too?

The issue isn't simple when you deal with multi prey species.

Oh and welcome to HBC! Please feel free to post up some of your hunting experiences and pictures.

hey thanks for the welcome!!!
I don't know much about Caribou. Well I know they're delicious and I'd like to hunt them one day. Can you PM me any good articles or links I can read on them?

thanks

[Rellick]

The constant talk of habitat and that we can all agree it is the biggest issue gets me thinking

Once $ is generated for enhancing habitat what is the plan in place?

what are the legalities of making changes to the landscape?

is there going to be legal action put into play to try and change logging/mining practices?

what is the main goal develope feed, protect wintering areas, reclaim roads basicly what's the plan?

Great questions......what is the plan? Does BCWF have one on the books waiting for????

[Wild one]

There is NO plan because the Government, Orgs ect can't get their shit together. Thats why we are all still arguing about the last moose on HBC. Sad but true :-(

Easier to get gov to listen if you have a well thought out plan

Going in with a vague goal makes it a lot easier to turn down. Anyone asks me to invest $ in something they are not seeing a dime unless I can see what the $ is going to be used for and reasons why the approach is going to get results. Without that I see it as no more than someone holding thier hand out

[mpotzold]

Loss of habitat and access are significant issues. But it's a mistake to say they are "the only" issues. You're making that statement in a vacuum because you have no idea what impact unregulated FN hunting is having. You're simply regurgitating a politically correct position forced on us by a government that's too weak to address the one unknown factor impinging on game populations, FN hunting.

It doesn't take Einstein to figure that unregulated indiscriminate slaughter of any moose year-round by the FN is a big factor in moose population decline in some regions.

We witnessed the night killing of a cow moose just feet from our camp. We approaching the father & son team at day break as they finished field dressing the cow. The young guy flashed his status card.
The meeting was polite. The dad was celebrating his birthday. The young guy also told us how easy it is to kill a moose at night.
The young guy also told us that they shot around 6 moose in the area in the last week alone.

2 groups of hunters came by coming from Uslika Lake. They said that they would never return because of the never ending night hunting in their areas.

Do the math!

Again moose management is useless without the harvested numbers.

[adriaticum]

It doesn't take Einstein to figure that unregulated indiscriminate slaughter of any moose year-round by the FN is a big factor in moose population decline in some regions.

We witnessed the night killing of a cow moose just feet from our camp. We approaching the father & son team at day break as they finished field dressing the cow. The young guy flashed his status card.
The meeting was polite. The dad was celebrating his birthday. The young guy also told us how easy it is to kill a moose at night.
The young guy also told us that they shot around 6 moose in the area in the last week alone.

2 groups of hunters came by coming from Uslika Lake. They said that they would never return because of the never ending night hunting in their areas.

Do the math!

Again moose management is useless without the harvested numbers.


No it's not. It's their constipational right. We can't change that. :mrgreen:

[Timbow]

I don't live in the lower mainland or Victoria for that matter, I live in Quesnel. In laymen terms, here is what I currently see with current ungulate numbers.

Up to 2000, the annual allowable cut for the Quesnel timber supply area alone was 2.4 million cubic meters. It was also the time the mountain pine beetle outbreak exploded and the annual cut was increased to 3.2 million in 2001, then to 5.2 million in 2004, then reduced to 4.0 million in 2011 under further notice. I believe in 2017 it will be lowered again.

That's almost double the cut for 16 years. If you don't think habitat loss is a big factor, your drinking the same cool aid as the premier. To get that much wood to the mills there is a road network system that is well beyond you can believe. With that volume every pine leading type is targeted which means very large cuts and their associated road network. What habitat lost goes in hand with access.

In that short time frame How many moose in the Quesnel area has been harvested by LEH, FN, predators, road kill associated to the excess harvest and non harvest? Let's factor in the warm winters that ticks survive. What other factors did I miss or not aware of? How can any species survive with access 24/7. I think Fisher Dude nailed it. Recruitment.

It has been the perfect storm and people are pointing fingers.

Now, enough of my rant. Just because I don't see a moose or deer in every other cutblock, it's all doom and gloom. In the last few years in the areas I hunt, I have seen more calves and fawns in areas that had nothing but wolf sign and a lot of it at one time. I am also seeing the numbers of elk and whitetail increasing. On a recent outing, I counted over a dozen whitetail, mind you they were on farm land.

I personally believe we need compulsory inspection for all moose harvested by all parties to get a better harvest number and some proper and current inventory.

[mpotzold]

I don't live in the lower mainland or Victoria for that matter, I live in Quesnel. In laymen terms, here is what I currently see with current ungulate numbers.

Up to 2000, the annual allowable cut for the Quesnel timber supply area alone was 2.4 million cubic meters. It was also the time the mountain pine beetle outbreak exploded and the annual cut was increased to 3.2 million in 2001, then to 5.2 million in 2004, then reduced to 4.0 million in 2011 under further notice. I believe in 2017 it will be lowered again.

That's almost double the cut for 16 years. If you don't think habitat loss is a big factor, your drinking the same cool aid as the premier. To get that much wood to the mills there is a road network system that is well beyond you can believe. With that volume every pine leading type is targeted which means very large cuts and their associated road network. What habitat lost goes in hand with access.

In that short time frame How many moose in the Quesnel area has been harvested by LEH, FN, predators, road kill associated to the excess harvest and non harvest? Let's factor in the warm winters that ticks survive. What other factors did I miss or not aware of? How can any species survive with access 24/7. I think Fisher Dude nailed it. Recruitment.

It has been the perfect storm and people are pointing fingers.

Now, enough of my rant. Just because I don't see a moose or deer in every other cutblock, it's all doom and gloom. In the last few years in the areas I hunt, I have seen more calves and fawns in areas that had nothing but wolf sign and a lot of it at one time. I am also seeing the numbers of elk and whitetail increasing. On a recent outing, I counted over a dozen whitetail, mind you they were on farm land.

I personally believe we need compulsory inspection for all moose harvested by all parties to get a better harvest number and some proper and current inventory.

You nailed it!:-)

I'm sure there are many factors behind the decline.

The number harvested where, when,sex, age are essential for proper management. PERIOD!
The BCWF should be addressing both the provincial & federal govt on this extremely important issue! And the sooner, the better!

[Gord]

There are past threads on HBC asking why hunters don't join the BCWF. This thread contains all the examples why I don't join. Even if I tried to be positive and go to a local meeting, you would learn very quickly that the leading members would be playing politics and controlling its membership. My workplace has gone this way, (we used to be like one big family that pulled together) and now it has fallen apart after enough of the old leaders retired. Now it's full of groups with selfish agendas and they are very skilled at making people fall in line. I know that is a very common experience for a lot of workplaces and it's why I don't "get involved". I could not bear to care about something and think I'm helping and then to learn that you're just being used for your vote. I couldn't go through that drama. I hunt on my own, with my dad or friends once in a while and soon will hunt with my kids. Whatever happens, I will be hunting in the future despite all these rules that are meant to help. I realise that people will see it differently about the benefits of membership but I truly think that those days are over and the game is different or being managed differently anyway. Gord.

[Salty]

Good luck walking it alone Gord. United we stand divided we fall. And IMO a few ass hats in an organisation do not ruin the organisation and boycotting an organization just because of a few ass hats plays right in to their hands. Not preaching just giving my opinion.

[adriaticum]

There are past threads on HBC asking why hunters don't join the BCWF. This thread contains all the examples why I don't join. Even if I tried to be positive and go to a local meeting, you would learn very quickly that the leading members would be playing politics and controlling its membership. My workplace has gone this way, (we used to be like one big family that pulled together) and now it has fallen apart after enough of the old leaders retired. Now it's full of groups with selfish agendas and they are very skilled at making people fall in line. I know that is a very common experience for a lot of workplaces and it's why I don't "get involved". I could not bear to care about something and think I'm helping and then to learn that you're just being used for your vote. I couldn't go through that drama. I hunt on my own, with my dad or friends once in a while and soon will hunt with my kids. Whatever happens, I will be hunting in the future despite all these rules that are meant to help. I realise that people will see it differently about the benefits of membership but I truly think that those days are over and the game is different or being managed differently anyway. Gord.

That's socialist thinking Gord, when it creeps in people don't tolerate alternative opinions.
Well that's my opinion anyway.

[Wild one]

There are past threads on HBC asking why hunters don't join the BCWF. This thread contains all the examples why I don't join. Even if I tried to be positive and go to a local meeting, you would learn very quickly that the leading members would be playing politics and controlling its membership. My workplace has gone this way, (we used to be like one big family that pulled together) and now it has fallen apart after enough of the old leaders retired. Now it's full of groups with selfish agendas and they are very skilled at making people fall in line. I know that is a very common experience for a lot of workplaces and it's why I don't "get involved". I could not bear to care about something and think I'm helping and then to learn that you're just being used for your vote. I couldn't go through that drama. I hunt on my own, with my dad or friends once in a while and soon will hunt with my kids. Whatever happens, I will be hunting in the future despite all these rules that are meant to help. I realise that people will see it differently about the benefits of membership but I truly think that those days are over and the game is different or being managed differently anyway. Gord.


There is a HUGE number of hunters who have simular view to the above post ^^^

I know changes would be needed before my self and many other hunters get involved.

[GoatGuy]

Resolutions are a trial balloon.

A resolution of this nature has to pass at club level, region level, provincial level and then at the BCWF convention. It's a filtering process.

The proposed resolution has yet to pass at the region level.

Until it is passed at the BCWF convention it is not BCWF policy.

[wideopenthrottle]

sounds about as sensible as making moose LEH based on the length of their bell

[Bonz]

id have to agree 100% with gords view. and till they demand accountability to all non of this will do anything but feed money to the groups claiming to fight for our rights and causes. they all, always side step anything native related. enough of the policticly correct crap and scared of the race card. the info need to be more public so reg people see whats realy going on out there and not blinded by keeper of the land fantasy stories.

if this isnt about bcwf policy or their request of proposal why is the name in the title. as of now it has nothing to do with them, its some private clubs view on issues.
no more than this groups posts on the issue.


anyone know anything about the other the sci guys? non profit arent they? do they have any more pull with policy? i notice they have locations local here now. but i never hear anything about them here.
not sure if their any better than bcwf.

[Wild one]

SCI is more about all hunters resident, non resident, and GO's. They will promote trophy hunting just as well as hunters rights in general. There is less division on weapon style and will promote special weapon seasons as well as GOS. They will focuse more on a quality hunt vs max harvest.

If you want an orginization to put residents first and focus on max harvest probably not for you

As for thier pull in BC no idea but I doubt they have much at this time

[adriaticum]

I do want to say something to the BCWF naysayers.

If you don't like what BCWF is doing, just saying screw it and leaving is not going to change anything.
The only way to change it and influence it is to get involved.

Your hunting privileges depend on it.

[GoatGuy]

SCI is more about all hunters resident, non resident, and GO's. They will promote trophy hunting just as well as hunters rights in general. There is less division on weapon style and will promote special weapon seasons as well as GOS. They will focuse more on a quality hunt vs max harvest.

If you want an orginization to put residents first and focus on max harvest probably not for you

As for thier pull in BC no idea but I doubt they have much at this time

SCIs creation of the imaginary shiras moose and support of goabc for wildlife allocation said a lot.

[Wild one]

SCIs creation of the imaginary shiras moose and support of goabc for wildlife allocation said a lot.

Just like the BCWF there is good in the SCI orginization and bad all depends on your views

Myself I see neither as a good option for me at this time

[Spy]

Ok so many including myself think that there should be mandatory reporting on all moose killed by natives, Rsident Hunters and guides. Sounds like we need a petition, maybe the BCWF can start one. I would go further and shut down "night hunting", hunting out of season, and everyone should be on LEH. I think the model we have on the Island for elk could work for moose until they rebound. Wolf cull or poison is a must and a bag limit of 4 black bears, & more Grizz LEH tags. A yearly moose count should also be done every year. Put the money we spend on tags to good use.

[russm86]

Ok so many including myself think that there should be mandatory reporting on all moose killed by natives, Rsident Hunters and guides. Sounds like we need a petition, maybe the BCWF can start one. I would go further and shut down "night hunting", hunting out of season, and everyone should be on LEH. I think the model we have on the Island for elk could work for moose until they rebound. Wolf cull or poison is a must and a bag limit of 4 black bears, & more Grizz LEH tags. A yearly moose count should also be done every year. Put the money we spend on tags to good use.

x2... Agreed!!!

[russm86]

All resolutions must be passed at the club level, It then advances to the regional level meeting [Nov 20 in Kamloops]
If it is passed at the regional meeting [Highly doubtfull] it goes to the BCWF agm where it will be debated and voted on again by all delegates from those clubs that bother to send any, If a resolution is passed at the agm it is then presented to the government for action or not as they see fit. I hope this somewhat explains the process for those that don't know. Also this has been on the region 3 agenda for over 2 weeks and I think we are only seeing fear mongering here.

Can any members, either direct or via a club, vote at the regional meetings or is it only elected people?

[Bonz]

I do want to say something to the BCWF naysayers.

If you don't like what BCWF is doing, just saying screw it and leaving is not going to change anything.
The only way to change it and influence it is to get involved.

Your hunting privileges depend on it.

personaly im not saying screw it. but ive been waiting years to see them actualy fight for us. all i been seeing is drama last while. or not doing anything about the issues. this one...and others.
i always see that join to make change idea..join how?. like pay membership? from what i read here that dont do anything for me. i still have no say in meetings.
how can someone get involved to make changes. if not the above.

[Whonnock Boy]

I think it has been spelled out here quite well. If you believe that aboriginals should be made to report their harvests, submit a motion to your club presenting all the facts and reasoning behind your motion. A motion of this nature should be well thought out, and backed by facts, especially those relating to aboriginals rights. When and if that motion is passed at your club, it will be sent to the regional board of directors where they will either accept of deny your motion. When, and if the motion passes at the regional level, it will go onto the Provincial resolutions committee where it will be again considered. Once that is all done, it will be voted on at the Provincial AGM. At the end of it, we will see if it is BCWF policy, or not.

Spy, I think you should be committee chair with the help of Timbow and mpotzold. I'm seriously not trying to be sarcastic or condescending. Fire it up, and see where it goes.

[Bonz]

i keep seeing mention of club..lol, what clubs we talking about. like our local ranges or?
where would a guy go in fraser valley?

[Whonnock Boy]

And one more thing. Even if we support the motion for aboriginal reporting, it certainly does not mean that government will accept it. Look at the petition to remove edible portions of grizzly bears. It was supported by both the BCWF and GOABC, but here we are, with no new legislation in place.

[Whonnock Boy]

Do you belong to a rod and gun club that is a member of the BCWF? That's where you take your motion.


i keep seeing mention of club..lol, what clubs we talking about. like our local ranges or?
where would a guy go in fraser valley?

[adriaticum]

personaly im not saying screw it. but ive been waiting years to see them actualy fight for us. all i been seeing is drama last while. or not doing anything about the issues. this one...and others.
i always see that join to make change idea..join how?. like pay membership? from what i read here that dont do anything for me. i still have no say in meetings.
how can someone get involved to make changes. if not the above.

That's the whole problem Bonz.
You've been waiting for years.
Nothing happens from waiting.

Power = Work / time
P = W / t


You can pay the membership. Then you can go to meetings. You can voice opinions and concerns. You can vote on issues. You can become an involved member. You can become a prominent member. You can propose ideas and change people's opinions.

Small stuff.
But you can't climb a latter if you don't lift your leg.

[Bonz]

Do you belong to a rod and gun club that is a member of the BCWF? That's where you take your motion.
..no, im not. the voted to shut my backyard down so i wont suport them. and the cost is reduiculous for someone on a dissability to afford

[Bonz]

That's the whole problem Bonz.
You've been waiting for years.
Nothing happens from waiting.

Power = Work / time
P = W / t


You can pay the membership. Then you can go to meetings. You can voice opinions and concerns. You can vote on issues. You can become an involved member. You can become a prominent member. You can propose ideas and change people's opinions.

Small stuff.
But you can't climb a latter if you don't lift your leg.

from day 1 they burned me, its in their court now to prove me wrong after that. ive yet to see anything possitive from them since i began hunting to be honest.

[Bonz]

i asked earlier about having a vote and i was told no i cant. getting confusing lol

[Whonnock Boy]

I don't know what to tell you. I do not know, but there should be a way for a direct member to submit an motion if one wanted to do so, most likely at the regional level. I'll see what I can find out.



..no, im not. the voted to shut my backyard down so i wont suport them. and the cost is reduiculous for someone on a dissability to afford

[Bonz]

thx, that side of all this is all greek to me..lol
you`d think if someone pays membership, they would have a say and not just pay to have a decal and magazine..lol
maybe it need a diff level of pay to allow for that?

[Bugle M In]

left to go muley hunting Friday pm, before original op.
Anyways, that is totally F'd!.
Didn't bother to read the 13 pages after op......don't need to.....just F'd!

[Gateholio]

thx, that side of all this is all greek to me..lol
you`d think if someone pays membership, they would have a say and not just pay to have a decal and magazine..lol
maybe it need a diff level of pay to allow for that?

You do have a vote. Join a BCWF affiliated club, start your own resolution, get your fellow club members to vote it through then take it to regional.

This isn't a complicated system, it's used extensively in politics. You vote for your local MP. He goes to Ottawa and votes on bills on your behalf. You can influence your MPO's vote by participating in the process- writing letters, speaking to him etc. YOU don't get to go to Ottawa and vote yourself unless you are willing to go through the process of becoming an MP.

[IronNoggin]

... Didn't bother to read the 13 pages after op......don't need to.....just F'd!

aYup! Totally 100 % CONCUR!!

Time for our own to send the message coming after the "low hanging fruit" no longer cuts it.
Grow a set, and start looking after the REAL Issues in this (and other related) matters!

KeRist! :mad:
Nog

[Bonz]

You do have a vote. Join a BCWF affiliated club, start your own resolution, get your fellow club members to vote it through then take it to regional.

This isn't a complicated system, it's used extensively in politics. You vote for your local MP. He goes to Ottawa and votes on bills on your behalf. You can influence your MPO's vote by participating in the process- writing letters, speaking to him etc. YOU don't get to go to Ottawa and vote yourself unless you are willing to go through the process of becoming an MP.

so in other words. i dont have a vote..lol
and from what ive seen over the years, they make sure others dont get in to have any say.

[adriaticum]

so in other words. i dont have a vote..lol
and from what ive seen over the years, they make sure others dont get in to have any say.



Dude, I don't know if you understand that if you want to play the game you have to be on the team.
Not being a member of a club and not being a direct member of the BCWF doesn't give you any vote.
This is not government, just living in BC does NOT entitle you to a vote.

[Gateholio]

so in other words. i dont have a vote..lol
and from what ive seen over the years, they make sure others dont get in to have any say.

Sounds like you don't actually want anything to change, that's your prerogative.

[Bonz]

Sounds like you don't actually want anything to change, that's your prerogative.

quite the opposite actualy.

[souwester]

Bonz there is no doubt the BCWF isn't perfect nothing is.

At this point I think its way more important to focus on the next provincial election,there is a "perfect storm" brewing against hunters at the moment.

[Fisher-Dude]

id have to agree 100% with gords view. and till they demand accountability to all non of this will do anything but feed money to the groups claiming to fight for our rights and causes. they all, always side step anything native related. enough of the policticly correct crap and scared of the race card. the info need to be more public so reg people see whats realy going on out there and not blinded by keeper of the land fantasy stories.



Your post shows that the clueless prefer to stay clueless.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?131374-Blockade-Injuction-Filed

[Bernie O]

To set everyone's mind at ease the motion was defeated at the region 3 meeting.

[Bonz]

Your post shows that the clueless prefer to stay clueless.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?131374-Blockade-Injuction-Filed

im new on here.so when they post info here. i dont see it to know what their doing do it.
and did the blockade get taken down? according to them its not

not sure who of you are in bcwf but the attitudes sure dont help getting people to join in to a newish guy trying to figure out all the politics to this system

[Salty]

Just go check out your local club Bonz you'll find less attitude and chippy shots with local people with the same interests than you will here ;) I've met some really good people joining rod and gun clubs some I'd consider friends. Or the other option is just join the BCWF the magazines and reports that come in the mail are worth it IMO and you'll get to see what the fed is up to and what issues are being addressed or trying to be addressed.