What would you have done?

[carnivore]

I recently returned from a hunt in MU 8-14 during the GOS for antlerless white-tails. Near dusk one evening I dropped a large bodied antlerless whitetail on the bushy edge of a cut-block at a range of approx 175 yds. The 180 gr Nosler Partition from my Browning A-Bolt 30:06 struck the deer just above the shoulder area and severed the spinal column, dropping the deer instantly. The animal was still breathing as I approached it so I finished it with a shot to the head. As it lay, the whitetail was obviously antlerless as there was no visible bony protuberance on the side of the head that was visible. I immediately cancelled one of my whitetail tags as antlerless. When I turned the deer over to start field dressing it I saw a small (1 1/8") spike on one side only. The spike was about 1/4" in dia. I then looked between the hind legs and to my suprise found a complete mature sized male package. Since I had cancelled one of my tags as antlerless and because I now realized the animal met the "technical" description for an antlered deer ( visible bony protuberance) I proceeded to cancel my second tag as an antlered animal just to cover my butt. Many have told me that under the circumstances I should have just gone with the cancelled antlerless tag and continued hunting with my other tag. What would you have do done?

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z421/ungalate/single%20spike.jpeg.jpg

[wideopenthrottle]

you probably did the right thing...or you could have placed a kill shot in the head obliterating the nub in the process (if you did that accidentally then you would have to choose antlerless)...next time I guess you will want to take a better look before cutting the tag

[Seeker]

I think that is a pretty honest mistake that many of us would have made. Contact the CO and see what they would suggest. I don't think you will lose the animal or be fined for being honest. I have witnessed first hand worse offences that did not. They may be able to clarify what you should do in such a circumstance. Although, I don't think you will need to know as I have a feeling you will never need to test those rules again! ;-) Its too bad as now you will not be able to chase your late season buck. Maybe the CO will grant an exception(if possible) Then at least you could go and harvest a doe.

I will typically gut the animal prior to punching a tag. That tends to clarify sex, which at least would have made you investigate further before cutting your tag.

[mikeman20]

I'd say that was about right. Maybe next time look closer first just in case though

[Xenomorph]

I recently returned from a hunt in MU 8-14 during the GOS for antlerless white-tails. Near dusk one evening I dropped a large bodied antlerless whitetail on the bushy edge of a cut-block at a range of approx 175 yds. The 180 gr Nosler Partition from my Browning A-Bolt 30:06 struck the deer just above the shoulder area and severed the spinal column, dropping the deer instantly. The animal was still breathing as I approached it so I finished it with a shot to the head. As it lay, the whitetail was obviously antlerless as there was no visible bony protuberance on the side of the head that was visible. I immediately cancelled one of my whitetail tags as antlerless. When I turned the deer over to start field dressing it I saw a small (1 1/8") spike on one side only. The spike was about 1/4" in dia. I then looked between the hind legs and to my suprise found a complete mature sized male package. Since I had cancelled one of my tags as antlerless and because I now realized the animal met the "technical" description for an antlered deer ( visible bony protuberance) I proceeded to cancel my second tag as an antlered animal just to cover my butt. Many have told me that under the circumstances I should have just gone with the cancelled antlerless tag and continued hunting with my other tag. What would you have done?


You gotta call the CO anyway, 8-14 is only one WT.
What I would have done I would've taken pictures, kill spot, call CO and not cancel second tag until advised to do so. Because essentially now you've got two WT cancelled tags in an area the aggregate limit is 1. You still need to call and have a talk to the CO.

[wideopenthrottle]

reg 8 has a 2 WT bag limit and 3 total deer...they changed from 2 wt does and a reg bag limit of 2... to a buck and a doe with reg limit of 3 (bottom of page 17 in the synopsis)

[BigfishCanada]

Not sure the length of bone is required to determin if its an antler, but even if it had balls and no antlers its still anterless isnt it?

[wideopenthrottle]

one inch long makes it a tine.... bottom of page 5 in the synopsis

[recoil]

I would double check that it the tine protrudes more than 1" above the hair, I shot a button buck on a mulie doe draw years ago and the antlers were well under an 1", in fact you couldn't see them unless you parted the hair. CO said no problem it was classified as legal under the antlerless definition.

[Xenomorph]

reg 8 has a 2 WT bag limit and 3 total deer...they changed from 2 wt does and a reg bag limit of 2... to a buck and a doe with reg limit of 3 (bottom of page 17 in the synopsis

Thanks, I'll check that out, I was looking at the Reg 8 online and says 1 only.



Not sure the length of bone is required to determin if its an antler, but even if it had balls and no antlers its still anterless isnt it?

Funny, but true, laughing out loud at this one.

[Sleep Robber]

Not sure the length of bone is required to determin if its an antler, but even if it had balls and no antlers its still anterless isnt it?

That's the way I read it, antlered or antlerless.

I would have called the CO and explained what happened and then proceed from there.

[RadHimself]

...... technically the wording on when your supposed to cancel your tag CLEARLY states that before you touch the animal, u punch the ticket

sooo, technically... if you shoot, wound and loose the animal... your obliged to cut your tag


but hey, those are just the rules.... nobody follows them these days anyway

just go for a drive on a weekend and start paying attention to borders, especially on LEH moose draw zones

[wideopenthrottle]

...... technically the wording on when your supposed to cancel your tag CLEARLY states that before you touch the animal, u punch the ticket

sooo, technically... if you shoot, wound and loose the animal... your obliged to cut your tag


but hey, those are just the rules.... nobody follows them these days anyway

just go for a drive on a weekend and start paying attention to borders, especially on LEH moose draw zones


I thought it must be in your possession before cutting your tag?
I did find this so far
4
Duplicates for misplaced, lost, stolen or
accidentally destroyed licences are available
from vendors and Service BC offices for a fee
of $10.00 plus GST. A Statement of Loss is
required. DO NOT purchase another original
licence from a non-government licence issuer, as
this will automatically show on the records that
you have been issued more than the legal limit
of current licences, which is an offence under

[brian]

...... technically the wording on when your supposed to cancel your tag CLEARLY states that before you touch the animal, u punch the ticket

sooo, technically... if you shoot, wound and loose the animal... your obliged to cut your tag
No it does not mean you must cut a tag the moment you shoot and wound something, it means you must punch your tag before you begin processing the animal. In fact the exact wording is

Immediately upon killing a big game animal, and before handling the animal, the appropriate species license must be cancelled using the following procedure.

[wideopenthrottle]

It is unlawful to be in possession of a big game

animal without a properly cancelled species

licence or otherwise by licence, permit, or as

provided by regulation. Any person who kills any

big game species must immediately after the kill

and before handling the big game killed, cancel

the appropriate species licence in accordance

with the instructions on that licence.


also found this so I guess you must cut your tag before gutting/touching the animal ....I am not so sure now about when to cut but I am pretty sure you do not cut for a wounded or lost animal?

[brian]

To the OP I have no clue what I would have done, I probably would have cancelled only my original antlerless tag as you had done by mistake and be done with it. Throwing myself upon the mercy of the CO's, I somehow think they would have no problem with it as it was an honest mistake and possibly not even really a mistake. That you cut a second tag makes you a better and more cautious man than I. However I looked up the definition of an antlered animal and it says
a member of the deer family over one year of age bearing visible bony antlers. (note the plural antlers) whereas antlerless is defined as
a member of the deer family bearing no visible antlers. The small skin or hair covered protuberances of male fawns and calves do not constitute antlers.
So it appears as though your deer resided completely in between the two tags. I would hope that a thoughtful CO would just wave you on and chalk it up to one of those weird things that our definitions are not adequate to cover, however your intention was not malicious.

[Keta1969]

I was told by a CO that the tag must be cancelled before "laying hands on the animal". Also knew a guy that was asked why there was blood on his license and if he had gutted the animal before reaching for the tag. Seems harsh but better safe than sorry.

[Ron.C]

If you think you made a mistake, best thing to do is self report. Directions are in the regs on why and how to do this.

My personal experience is that the CO service is very understanding when you do have to self report. Last year, I shot an animal that was subject to compulsory Inspection that I was unable to find for two days. By the time I found it, it had spoiled. So I packed the spoiled meat out and self reported based on the fact that I was unable to remove the edible portions. And proceeded to the compulsory Inspection. The CO had no issue . The other instance I know where it was used was when an antlered animal was shot that the shooter thought was legal. The shooter cancelled his tag upon realizing he made his mistake, immediately self reported and had to surrender the meat and antlers. No other actions were taken.


It's not a get out of jail free card as I'm sure there will be repercussions if it is determined you were negligent as it should be. But if and when you find yourself in the spot where you made a honest mistake, then self reporting is the right way to proceed.

So in the OPs scenario, if you think a tag was cancelled incorrectly, write self report on the tag and report to the local CO as soon as possible.

[Seeker]

I was told by a CO that the tag must be cancelled before "laying hands on the animal". Also knew a guy that was asked why there was blood on his license and if he had gutted the animal before reaching for the tag. Seems harsh but better safe than sorry.

I can guarantee that if I am to shoot a doe after this story, that I will be "laying my hands on the animal" before I punch my tag. Touching the animal to verify its identity is not a big deal and does not make you an evil being. It simply saves you going through this very scenario. Not punching your tag at all is a big deal. I wouldn't sweat laying your hands on the animal. Just make sure you tag it within a short time frame after harvesting it.

[wideopenthrottle]

I think you should go in and get the form to declare it "accidentally destroyed" and get it replaced for 10 bucks

[Keta1969]

I can guarantee that if I am to shoot a doe after this story, that I will be "laying my hands on the animal" before I punch my tag. Touching the animal to verify its identity is not a big deal and does not make you an evil being. It simply saves you going through this very scenario. Not punching your tag at all is a big deal. I wouldn't sweat laying your hands on the animal. Just make sure you tag it within a short time frame after harvesting it.

I never said I agreed with it and I would do the same, But you could be in trouble if you've got into gutting without cancelling the tag. Just a FWIW

[rocksteady]

Any pics of the aforementioned bony protrusion???

[tinhorse]

You should have continued hunting and shot a doe the same day. 2 tags cancelled, one for a buck and one for a doe. But as others have said, I would have made a note in pen and initialed the mistake on the licence like you would one a mistake on a cheque and then contacted the CO. Take a pic of the licence and deer at the time of incident, therefor you have proof of time of kill and reporting etc.

[wideopenthrottle]

Duplicates for misplaced, lost, stolen or
accidentally destroyed licences are available
from vendors and Service BC offices for a fee
of $10.00 plus GST. A Statement of Loss is
required.

I think this is what can remedy the mistake

[Timbow]

I think you should go in and get the form to declare it "accidentally destroyed" and get it replaced for 10 bucks


Contact your local CO. Simple.

If you take this license to Service BC and explain this as an accidental cancellation they are going to contact the CO services.

Please let us know how you made out.

[PressurePoint]

Your "cya" is admirable and regardless of what suggestions are made, I appreciate your efforts towards good hunting practises and conservation.

unfortunately just one of those random parts of hunting.

two thumbs up.

[carnivore]

Any pics of the aforementioned bony protrusion???

Photo link has been added.

[boxhitch]

If you went about a self-report and the story stood up, a CO could correct the incorrect tag and initial it, setting things proper and you could go about filling the second and third. Staple his business card to the tag in case.....
But, if the story smells like a fish tale ............

[happyhunter]

I think that is a pretty honest mistake that many of us would have made. Contact the CO and see what they would suggest. I don't think you will lose the animal or be fined for being honest. I have witnessed first hand worse offences that did not. They may be able to clarify what you should do in such a circumstance. Although, I don't think you will need to know as I have a feeling you will never need to test those rules again! ;-) Its too bad as now you will not be able to chase your late season buck. Maybe the CO will grant an exception(if possible) Then at least you could go and harvest a doe.

I will typically gut the animal prior to punching a tag. That tends to clarify sex, which at least would have made you investigate further before cutting your tag.

This is wrong and the tag doesn't require you to clarify sex. It's not a "buck" or "doe" tag. Your tag is all about headgear either for antlered or antlered-less. Ever shot an antlered doe? I have lol

[srupp]

There is also the case for cancelling a tag without a animal...depends on the CO involved honesty is always the best policy..well done now that you posted it contact CO and report it..
Cheers
Srupp

[Bugle M In]

I may have just stuck to the one tag, gutted deer, and gone straight to CO and explain.
Either way, it happens to the best of us.
Thanks for telling us your experience, as other can learn from this as well.....it just happens sometimes.
If you do talk to a CO, let us know what they say.
Good luck to you for the rest of the season.

[rocksteady]

There is no way anyone in their right mind could expect you to pick up that tidbit of bone at 175 yards.. maybe not even at 17.5 yards

[BigMrMeats]

Always keep it honest. Actions like that are what give this sport credibility. More people could learn from your example. Thanks.

[Downwind]

Wow is that thing tiny. Hard to pick that up at last light at almost 200 yards. Talk to the CO's. I would think they would reissue your tag. You did the right thing in my opinion but interested to know how they recommend you handle it.

[boxhitch]

if you choose to go that way.......from pg 15
What should you do?
Immediately cancel your species licence and
mark in ink on the species licence page that
your intention is to self report.

[carnivore]

if you choose to go that way.......from pg 15

Why would I self report unless I wanted to get a replacement tag, which I don't. In the area I was hunting I was allowed two white-tails, one antlered and one antlerless. I chose to cancel my second tag after I realized that the downed animal was antlered and that I had inadvertently cancelled my first tag as anterless. In this case I thing I did the right thing (although I wasted a tag at my expense). My understanding is that self reporting is for when you make a mistake and harvest something that is not open or something that you are not tagged for. Because I had two tags and both antlered and antlerless whitetails were open, the one animal I harvested would be legal regardless of it being antlered or not.

[boxhitch]

Not pointing at you Carni, just for info.
The reg is for situations different to yours, such as having only one species tag in the pocket or not wanting to burn a tag.

[rocksteady]

Why would I self report unless I wanted to get a replacement tag, which I don't. In the area I was hunting I was allowed two white-tails, one antlered and one antlerless. I chose to cancel my second tag after I realized that the downed animal was antlered and that I had inadvertently cancelled my first tag as anterless. In this case I thing I did the right thing (although I wasted a tag at my expense). My understanding is that self reporting is for when you make a mistake and harvest something that is not open or something that you are not tagged for. Because I had two tags and both antlered and antlerless whitetails were open, the one animal I harvested would be legal regardless of it being antlered or not.


You are 100% in the right

[Spokerider]

I would have done the exact same thing as you have done........except for posting the incident on the www.

Depending upon the nature / disposition of the CO that you converse with, you may not be charged with an offense or you may well be. You are at the mercy [ or lack of ] of the interrogating CO. Even an official "warning" against your hunter number results in a complete and thorough *investigation* or shake-down with every CO encounter while out hunting, or returning from hunting. With them discovering the "warning" offense on your number, he will proceed to "investigate" you further, as you are now eyed with great suspicion and considered a likely offender forevermore. You don't want a "warning" on your number.

It is a very demeaning transpiration of events to have to go through, time and again. One shake-down event while coming back to moose camp by myself and my hunting buddy and his wife, lasted almost 2 hrs.......all because I have a "warning" on my number. Of course we were not charged with any offense, but we were still treated like criminals, being kept separate from each other with not talking or communication permitted between us while their"investigation" ensued. They even followed us back into camp and did a complete search of camper and area before we were even permitted to exit our truck. One CO phoned my wife back at home to "confirm" who I was and that my hunting trip with my buddy was legit, and said that if my wife could not be contacted, he wanted my employers phone number for the next attempt to confirm my being.
As mentioned, this went on for almost 2 hrs.
Every CO encounter goes like this for me now, to some degree. None since as bad as that event I just mentioned however.

So how did I get a "warning"?
Yes this is getting off topic in relation to your concern, but I will briefly mention it..........

Years ago, a co-worker pleaded with me to please bow deer on her property. She was trying to garden, and the deer were even stepping up onto her house deck to eat the basket flowers.
Being a rural / acreage type subdivision [ legal to bow hunt with owners permission ], it was not really my thing, but decided to go meet her for a coffee and yard tour that Sept morning anyway.
When I was there, about an hour into our visit, a CO drove up and pulled in behind my truck, which was parked on the road at her driveway. He got out, asked who's truck that was, and I said it was mine. He proceeded to interrogate me / accuse me of bow hunting in the neighbourhood that morning. I denied any bow hunting that morning, and in fact had never hunted there at all, ever. Upon my insistence that I had not been hunting, i was threatened with receiving multiple charges, including lying to a peace officer, etc, etc.

Have you ever been accused of something that you haven't done?? It doesn't feel very good when things appear to be spiraling out of control and you are innocent. When I asked why / how it came to be that he was even here, he said the RCMP got a call that a bowhunter was on the mountain that morning. Since he, the CO was driving along in the area, the call was deferred to him. When asked WHO made the call to the RCMP that a bowhunter was present, it was the subdivision developer that was driving by, spotted my truck below my co-workers driveway, knew that it did not belong to her or her husband, stopped and looked inside my truck, saw my longbow and tree stand on the floor and seat. Being a known anti hunter activist according to my co-worker, he was eager to make the call. That was how it unfolded. I had been hunting the evening before at a different location, and just left my gear in my truck overnight.

In the end, the CO said that he would not charge me, but would give me a "warning". Even at that I was very upset, feeling the whole event was unjust and having yet received a warning, but being brought up as polite and to respect "authority", I said nothing. I was young and naive. Not anymore.

Nope, you made an honest mistake. Could have been any one of us. Just like in the army........don't go looking for trouble.......

[carnivore]

I would have done the exact same thing as you have done........except for posting the incident on the www.

Depending upon the nature / disposition of the CO that you converse with, you may not be charged with an offense or you may well be. You are at the mercy [ or lack of ] of the interrogating CO. Even an official "warning" against your hunter number results in a complete and thorough *investigation* or shake-down with every CO encounter while out hunting, or returning from hunting. With them discovering the "warning" offense on your number, he will proceed to "investigate" you further, as you are now eyed with great suspicion and considered a likely offender forevermore. You don't want a "warning" on your number.

It is a very demeaning transpiration of events to have to go through, time and again. One shake-down event while coming back to moose camp by myself and my hunting buddy and his wife, lasted almost 2 hrs.......all because I have a "warning" on my number. Of course we were not charged with any offense, but we were still treated like criminals, being kept separate from each other with not talking or communication permitted between us while their"investigation" ensued. They even followed us back into camp and did a complete search of camper and area before we were even permitted to exit our truck. One CO phoned my wife back at home to "confirm" who I was and that my hunting trip with my buddy was legit, and said that if my wife could not be contacted, he wanted my employers phone number for the next attempt to confirm my being.
As mentioned, this went on for almost 2 hrs.
Every CO encounter goes like this for me now, to some degree. None since as bad as that event I just mentioned however.

So how did I get a "warning"?
Yes this is getting off topic in relation to your concern, but I will briefly mention it..........

Years ago, a co-worker pleaded with me to please bow deer on her property. She was trying to garden, and the deer were even stepping up onto her house deck to eat the basket flowers.
Being a rural / acreage type subdivision [ legal to bow hunt with owners permission ], it was not really my thing, but decided to go meet her for a coffee and yard tour that Sept morning anyway.
When I was there, about an hour into our visit, a CO drove up and pulled in behind my truck, which was parked on the road at her driveway. He got out, asked who's truck that was, and I said it was mine. He proceeded to interrogate me / accuse me of bow hunting in the neighbourhood that morning. I denied any bow hunting that morning, and in fact had never hunted there at all, ever. Upon my insistence that I had not been hunting, i was threatened with receiving multiple charges, including lying to a peace officer, etc, etc.

Have you ever been accused of something that you haven't done?? It doesn't feel very good when things appear to be spiraling out of control and you are innocent. When I asked why / how it came to be that he was even here, he said the RCMP got a call that a bowhunter was on the mountain that morning. Since he, the CO was driving along in the area, the call was deferred to him. When asked WHO made the call to the RCMP that a bowhunter was present, it was the subdivision developer that was driving by, spotted my truck below my co-workers driveway, knew that it did not belong to her or her husband, stopped and looked inside my truck, saw my longbow and tree stand on the floor and seat. Being a known anti hunter activist according to my co-worker, he was eager to make the call. That was how it unfolded. I had been hunting the evening before at a different location, and just left my gear in my truck overnight.

In the end, the CO said that he would not charge me, but would give me a "warning". Even at that I was very upset, feeling the whole event was unjust and having yet received a warning, but being brought up as polite and to respect "authority", I said nothing. I was young and naive. Not anymore.

Nope, you made an honest mistake. Could have been any one of us. Just like in the army........don't go looking for trouble.......

Sooo, your are saying that in your opinion I did the wrong thing by cancelling my second tag correctly. I had two tags, you are allowed 2 whitetails in region 8 ( one antlered and one antlered). Any whitetail was open to me and I harvested only one. All I did was correct my error by using my second tag and not using the first one I cancelled. The reason I even posted here was to inform others to not be too hasty in cancelling their tag, although it must be done prior to handling the animal. What's your problem?

[happyhunter]

Sooo, your are saying that in your opinion I did the wrong thing by cancelling my second tag correctly. I had two tags, you are allowed 2 whitetails in region 8 ( one antlered and one antlered). Any whitetail was open to me and I harvested only one. All I did was correct my error by using my second tag and not using the first one I cancelled. The reason I even posted here was to inform others to not be too hasty in cancelling their tag, although it must be done prior to handling the animal. What's your problem?

I get exactly what your saying, I think some people just arent bothering to read and comprehend your scenario before they respond. It's just too bad you had to cancel 2 tags.

[scoutlt1]

I'd say you did the right thing.
No way that most people could see that tiny "protrusion" until they got up close (hardly "visible").
From what I read, you shot, truthfully, what you believed was an anterless deer. When you came up to it you found that it was antlered (keep in mind that in the regs the definition of both "antlered" and "anterless" refers to "antlers"...not antler"). Once you found that out, you cancelled your legal "antlered" tag.
So long as your case was properly presented to a judge I don't see how you would ever be found of any wrongdoing.

Considering some of the flagrant disgregard of the laws (epecially regarding wildlife) these days, I would say that you not only cutting the other tag, but also posting what you've done to receive feedback on a public forum, makes you someone that I respect in our hunting community. You clearly care about about following the regs.

Again......I would have done the same, and you're welcome in my camp anytime.

[RiverOtter]

Not slighting your honesty or ethics whatsoever, but having 2 cancelled tags and only 1 deer to show for it, could be a real issue with some CO's, likely most.

IMO, writing on your tag that you intend to contact the CO service as soon as you can would have been a better course of action. The CO could have made a notation on the cancelled tag to indicate that it was in fact an antlered buck and you would have been good to go with your second tag intact; even if you chose not to fill it later. Again, kudos for honesty and attempting to appease the law.