BC deer vs west USA - whats the deal

[twoSevenO]

Are the mule deer bigger in the USA than BC or are elite Canadian hunters just not as eager to post what they see/shoot on YouTube like the Americans?

The number of 150-170 class bucks that people film is mind boggling. Some people film more bucks in a day then i've seen in my life lol. And 200+ inch bucks, while still rare down there, seem to occur way more frequently then you hear about them up here. (not counting those caged hunts with freak bucks).

Or does it have to do with their tag allotment system? A lot of them talk about how it took 3, 4, 8, or sometimes more years to draw the tags for whatever unit they're in be it CO, WY, UT, MT etc.

[shuswapbear]

From what I gather talking with an American guest at the hotel I work at, that lives in Oregon, hunting state side has more restrictions than hunting here. He said you have to choose between bow or rifle you can't hunt both seasons. Also from what he was saying the seasons run in shorter durations.

[hoochie]

I have also found it interesting that people have land where they plant food plots for the deer... they feed them year around.

[HighCountryBC]

In general, you'll find hunters North of the Border less eager to enter animals into the book/post/talk about their kills. Boone and Crockett is a big deal down there whereas up here, a lot of the guys who shoot animals that would make the book are content keep that info to themselves. They aren't seeking the spotlight. I know a few hardcore guys that have several deer and elk that throw up serious numbers but you'll never see their name in the book. Nothing but respect for guys like that.

Be thankful we have the opportunities we do in BC without having to acquire several years of priority points to go hunt deer like they do in some States. Sure, they have over the counter opportunities but for the most part, the best units are tough to draw.

[Rackmastr]

BC simply doesnt produce the numbers of big mule deer bucks that other places do. It can be from various things like terrain, weather, food sources, predators, private vs public land, tag allocation, hunter pressure, etc, etc.

Doesnt take long to figure out that AB/SK produce a lot more quality bucks in general than BC does. On a recent hunt to AB I probably looked over 50-70 bucks in a half day of hunting, and saw a couple dozen in the 150-170, with a handful over 170". But on the flip side, Alberta's stone sheep population aint too hot and SK doesnt have a great goat hunt.

Different places, different combinations of factors weigh into it. BC produces some great mulies still, but hard to compare to some places as well when you add up all the different factors. Also hard for them to compare when looking at BC for certain species or opportunity.

[dino]

The us doesnt have a lot of public land open to hunt. Private land is where most of the big ones are shot.

[Pemby_mess]

I don't know much about the hunting situation down there, but whenever I've been down there hiking skiing or climbing I see lots of incredible animals. It's very common on the same trips here for me not to see anything unless I'm really looking.

I think while good old Canadian modesty might be part of it, their wildlife populations south of the border are far more accessible than they are in, well, especially BC. They don't have the vast spaces and terrain to hide in when they come under pressure like they certainly do here.

[twoSevenO]

BC simply doesnt produce the numbers of big mule deer bucks that other places do. It can be from various things like terrain, weather, food sources, predators, private vs public land, tag allocation, hunter pressure, etc, etc.

Doesnt take long to figure out that AB/SK produce a lot more quality bucks in general than BC does. On a recent hunt to AB I probably looked over 50-70 bucks in a half day of hunting, and saw a couple dozen in the 150-170, with a handful over 170". But on the flip side, Alberta's stone sheep population aint too hot and SK doesnt have a great goat hunt.

Different places, different combinations of factors weigh into it. BC produces some great mulies still, but hard to compare to some places as well when you add up all the different factors. Also hard for them to compare when looking at BC for certain species or opportunity.

Whats the process in AB? Several dozen of 150-170? Why arent people killing them like they would in BC?

Thats a lot of big bucks to see in half a day of hunting.

[twoSevenO]

I don't know much about the hunting situation down there, but whenever I've been down there hiking skiing or climbing I see lots of incredible animals. It's very common on the same trips here for me not to see anything unless I'm really looking.

I think while good old Canadian modesty might be part of it, their wildlife populations south of the border are far more accessible than they are in, well, especially BC. They don't have the vast spaces and terrain to hide in when they come under pressure like they certainly do here.

This is a great point. For a place that has as many beautiful animals as BC does it sure is not that easy to see them.

[Rackmastr]

Whats the process in AB? Several dozen of 150-170? Why arent people killing them like they would in BC?

Thats a lot of big bucks to see in half a day of hunting.

A very large portion of Alberta has mule deer or a draw system. Priority point based in Alberta and although there are areas you can hunt mule deer without a draw, those areas are limited.

Agreed, its a large number of bucks to see in a day. In the same day we probably saw 3 bucks that pushed over the 180 gross mark including a 200" NT buck. It should be noted that this is in a prairie zone with almost all private land, though most of it easily accessed with permission.

Its different (as is any Province or State) for various reasons.

[twoSevenO]

A very large portion of Alberta has mule deer or a draw system. Priority point based in Alberta and although there are areas you can hunt mule deer without a draw, those areas are limited.

Agreed, its a large number of bucks to see in a day. In the same day we probably saw 3 bucks that pushed over the 180 gross mark including a 200" NT buck. It should be noted that this is in a prairie zone with almost all private land, though most of it easily accessed with permission.

Its different (as is any Province or State) for various reasons.

Ive watched some AB hunts in the praire as well. Looks like awesome country to hunt.

I guess private land is the main reason that hunting pressure is lower? Or at least seems lower on youtube.

Also are there antler restrictions? I feel like they also have to be letting more little guys live and grow then we do here

[Rackmastr]

No antler restrictions. Years ago there were 3 point restrictions and then that moved to draw.

I've hunted some areas in AB that are lease land and easy access with several hundred tags and still had enjoyable hunts and killed some good 170+ bucks. It's not as simple as one or two things like private land, draw or no draw, etc. I think it's a large number of factors on why some areas produce different numbers and quality of game differently. Can't say I have the knowledge of the whys but that's my opinion is its a broad number of factors.

[twoSevenO]

Possibly just better genes that allow them to get bigger faster?

Ive seen some FAT and big bodied bucks here sporting tiny 2 points on each side.

[ACE]

Are the Mule deer bigger in the USA than BC ...... ?


Bergmann's Rule/Effect .....
Body wise, animals tend to be larger as you go north.
Surface/skin area ~ body volume.

[HarryToolips]

BC simply doesnt produce the numbers of big mule deer bucks that other places do. It can be from various things like terrain, weather, food sources, predators, private vs public land, tag allocation, hunter pressure, etc, etc.

Doesnt take long to figure out that AB/SK produce a lot more quality bucks in general than BC does. On a recent hunt to AB I probably looked over 50-70 bucks in a half day of hunting, and saw a couple dozen in the 150-170, with a handful over 170". But on the flip side, Alberta's stone sheep population aint too hot and SK doesnt have a great goat hunt.

Different places, different combinations of factors weigh into it. BC produces some great mulies still, but hard to compare to some places as well when you add up all the different factors. Also hard for them to compare when looking at BC for certain species or opportunity.
Right but Alberta for example I believe only has a general open season for muley bucks for bow only...they don't have the same hunting opportunity as we have here, from what I understand after talking with an Alberta hunter this past summer..therefore bucks are usually killed at an earlier age, but I'd personally rather have the greater hunting opportunity like here in BC, as long as there's no conservation concern of course..

[Ride]

The us doesnt have a lot of public land open to hunt. Private land is where most of the big ones are shot.

This is not actually the case. There is a lot of public land in the states for hunting, especially in the west. It just is a bit more complicated knowing the boundaries. And there are lots of over the counter hunts if you're willing to do the work. That being said, most of the crankers are found on private land. Those boys and girls manage their game differently down there........

[HighCountryBC]

I don't think guys truly understand just how many big bucks and bulls are shot and kept off the radar each year in BC. We aren't talking 170" mulies or 330" elk either...

Much more difficult terrain than most other provinces and states but BC can and does hold it's own with anyone in terms of quality of animals.

[lovemywinchester]

I think one reason the prairies produce big deer is because of the border to border crops and farmland. Lots more easy food for them there than here in BC.



They aren't seeking the spotlight. I know a few hardcore guys that have several deer and elk that throw up serious numbers but you'll never see their name in the book. Nothing but respect for guys like that.


Lots of guys keeping their mouth shut these days. I think you have to with how fast pics spread on phones these days, never mind the internet and plain old word of mouth. One thing we need to keep in mind though is that the B&C and BC record books aren't really bragging boards but a way to keep track of the big game sizes and success of conservation efforts. No doubt its good for bragging rights and that may not appeal to many, but to not list BIG animals is depriving everyone of the historic data. 2c

[Looking_4_Jerky]

I think no matter how you slice it, the common theme is that here in BC, we trade off not having as many really large deer in favor of accessibility to hunting opportunities. I think considering everything (still a reasonable amount of nice but not huge deer with the odd whopper thrown in, species diversity, abundant Crown land, liberal GOS that are long and allow people to get out lots), we still have it really good.

Some states also throw lots of money at their wildlife management, which is something we haven't done here in decades. As hunters, that may sound great, but the next time you have to pay a few thousand bucks for a visit to the hospital, you can re-evaluate if those couple of fewer inches on your muley was worth the free visit you got.

As for the prairie provinces, not only are opportunities more limited than here, but the amount of access to high-protein agricultural crops (wheat, barley, rye, oats, corn) is incomparable to here. Now, they do also have free medical, but the next time you fly from the southern interior to Edmonton or Saskatoon in winter, you may also appreciate what we have!

[Seeadler]

I think that in absolute potential size BC gives up nothing. But further south they have less winter kill and greater restrictions, LEH, private land and so on.

Compare BC with other places, we an go Mule Deer hunting every year, other places not so much.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The majority of those hunters are paying for access/and or for a guided hunt. Private land can be managed to bring in bigger dollars for bigger bucks or bulls.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of BC hunters don't want to go that route.


There are opportunities to hunt public land in many states in the west but they are under attack.

http://www.americanpubliclands.com/

[twoSevenO]

The majority of those hunters are paying for access/and or for a guided hunt. Private land can be managed to bring in bigger dollars for bigger bucks or bulls.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of BC hunters don't want to go that route.


There are opportunities to hunt public land in many states in the west but they are under attack.

http://www.americanpubliclands.com/

There are a lot of solo hunters filming. So no guides. However they could have paid for access to hunt the land. Thats a good point.


Another popular YT hunter, Randy Newberg, hunts exclusively on public land with over the counter tags most of the time and while entertaining, his videos show significantly smaller bucks and bulls taken than what you see in some other videos.


So youre probably right. The big ones all come out of very tightly managed and controlled units that are either very expensive or have extremely difficult draws.

[Bugle M In]

I think no matter how you slice it, the common theme is that here in BC, we trade off not having as many really large deer in favor of accessibility to hunting opportunities. I think considering everything (still a reasonable amount of nice but not huge deer with the odd whopper thrown in, species diversity, abundant Crown land, liberal GOS that are long and allow people to get out lots), we still have it really good.

Some states also throw lots of money at their wildlife management, which is something we haven't done here in decades. As hunters, that may sound great, but the next time you have to pay a few thousand bucks for a visit to the hospital, you can re-evaluate if those couple of fewer inches on your muley was worth the free visit you got.

As for the prairie provinces, not only are opportunities more limited than here, but the amount of access to high-protein agricultural crops (wheat, barley, rye, oats, corn) is incomparable to here. Now, they do also have free medical, but the next time you fly from the southern interior to Edmonton or Saskatoon in winter, you may also appreciate what we have!

I agree with this.
Many parts of Alberta, are also Private/Ranch/Farmland.
Like here, if you know the people and can get access, the opportunity to hunt on land that hold
a lot of deer that aren't pressured that much, and because of food sources, can get quite large.
Same goes for the States, and there they even have private areas where they feed the deer to grow
large antlers, but unless you have money, you are out of luck.
BC does have some large deer, but, we also have the opportunity to hunt in a lot of places without
restriction (granted, there seems to be more and more land that is now private etc, and less owners allowing
access)
Also, the season in BC is a lot shorter now days.
Example, many large bucks taken in Lumby area (you will see some, but not all in the record books of BC),
were taken very late, later than the we can hunt now.
Because of this, ALL the bucks have moved down, and thus presented increased opportunity to take a large
Buck.
Ironically, some of these big boys were taken on Farmland, where the owners did not allow access for hunters,
only family. (I know that for a fact)
And then, there is probably a gene factor as well.
Some areas in BC have a lot more non-typical's, then other parts of BC.
In the US, some have brought in "Large bucks" to breed in attempt to have large antlered deer etc.
Many things that we do not have or do not do in BC.

[RadHimself]

if october wasnt such a slaughter on any mule with antlers that might help with the odds of seeing sumthing bigger.

that and big Mule Deer dont grow up in cut blocks, i can tell you that much for free.

where i grew up, i used to see game EVERY time we drove to the bush, wether it was for firewood, creek fishing or hiking. now After the fintry fire, and a landscape that now resembles the moon thanks to pine beetle and forestry in general, WAY too many access roads not deactivated and people that drive around all day, never stepping foot outside the truck unless its after the door is open and the rifle is resting in the doorjam or on the hood, these same people that wont shoot downhill cuz its too much work

we grow big deer here... they have a million places to hide, after there first year alive watching everything around them getting shot at ANYWHERE near a road... where do you think they are hiding?

This morning in the fog, i bumped into 2 seperate groups of deer within a mile of eachother on opposite side of the same hill. first group saw me at 50 yards and got the hell away as fast as possible, 3 hops and into the alders. second group didnt seem to care as much, and i was glassing them from about 100 yards away. the lone spiker in the group was in the trees a bit farther back from the main group of does and fawns, as i slowly walked up the old skid trail and had a lane through the trees where i could see the buck staring at me broadside, the biggest doe in the group, which was paying the most attention to me out of all the deer, walked over and put herself between me and the spike. i had no intention of tagging this spiker, the last time i was in this area there was a fairly large 3x3 and a small 4x4 with the group. either dead now, or got wise.



You tell me they dont know whats up.

you wanna find a big mulie in B.C?

find the DEEPEST, DARKEST, THICKEST draw in your "area"... AWAY from the road.

he wont be sleeping by a stump in the middle of a cutblock waiting for you to wake him up and take his picture

[HighCountryBC]

if october wasnt such a slaughter on any mule with antlers that might help with the odds of seeing sumthing bigger.

that and big Mule Deer dont grow up in cut blocks, i can tell you that much for free.

where i grew up, i used to see game EVERY time we drove to the bush, wether it was for firewood, creek fishing or hiking. now After the fintry fire, and a landscape that now resembles the moon thanks to pine beetle and forestry in general, WAY too many access roads not deactivated and people that drive around all day, never stepping foot outside the truck unless its after the door is open and the rifle is resting in the doorjam or on the hood, these same people that wont shoot downhill cuz its too much work

we grow big deer here... they have a million places to hide, after there first year alive watching everything around them getting shot at ANYWHERE near a road... where do you think they are hiding?

This morning in the fog, i bumped into 2 seperate groups of deer within a mile of eachother on opposite side of the same hill. first group saw me at 50 yards and got the hell away as fast as possible, 3 hops and into the alders. second group didnt seem to care as much, and i was glassing them from about 100 yards away. the lone spiker in the group was in the trees a bit farther back from the main group of does and fawns, as i slowly walked up the old skid trail and had a lane through the trees where i could see the buck staring at me broadside, the biggest doe in the group, which was paying the most attention to me out of all the deer, walked over and put herself between me and the spike. i had no intention of tagging this spiker, the last time i was in this area there was a fairly large 3x3 and a small 4x4 with the group. either dead now, or got wise.



You tell me they dont know whats up.

you wanna find a big mulie in B.C?

find the DEEPEST, DARKEST, THICKEST draw in your "area"... AWAY from the road.

he wont be sleeping by a stump in the middle of a cutblock waiting for you to wake him up and take his picture

In one sentence you say October is a slaughter and in another you say the deer have a million places to hide and in another you say the area is a moonscape. Which is it?

The October any buck season is a good thing. The same hunter who would shoot that yearling 4pt with awesome genetics would be just as content to shoot a 2 or 3 pt of similar size (and with shitty genetics).

On another note, it's clear by the responses in this thread that there are many who don't realize just how many big deer there are living right under our noses here in BC.

[twoSevenO]

In one sentence you say October is a slaughter and in another you say the deer have a million places to hide and in another you say the area is a moonscape. Which is it?

The October any buck season is a good thing. The same hunter who would shoot that yearling 4pt with awesome genetics would be just as content to shoot a 2 or 3 pt of similar size (and with shitty genetics).

On another note, it's clear by the responses in this thread that there are many who don't realize just how many big deer there are living right under our noses here in BC.

First, depends what you consider big. I think anything over 160 is big. But on youtube only anything over 190 is big it seems.

Second, i agree. There are probably a lot of monster bucks who live and die in BC without ever seeing a hunter. And thats sort of my intent behind the post. Do we have the true 220+ monsters killed like CO and UT and if we do why arent people showing them off. much?

Even for hardcore mule hunters like dana a 200 inch buck was HARD to come by. But watch some vids on youtube and theyre hitting the dirt in the states on a daily basis. A lot of good info in the thread explaining why that is and the reasons or at least theories behind them. Good info!

But i dont agree with your post on october. If a hunter is skilled enough to recognize a genetically superior yearling 4 point that hunter is probably not interested in a yearling to begin with. That hunters idea of a freezer buck is probably a very solid 4 point instead.


P.s. where is dana and does he post on here still? Always loved his posts.

[HighCountryBC]

First, depends what you consider big. I think anything over 160 is big. But on youtube only anything over 190 is big.

Second, i agree. There are probably a lot of monster bucks who live and die in BC without ever seeing a hunter. And thats sort of my intent behind the post. Do we have the true 220+ monsters killed like CO and UT and if we do why arent people showing them off. much?

Even for hardcore mule hunters like dana a 200 inch buck was HARD to come by. But watch some vids on youtube and theyre hitting the dirt in the states on a daily basis. A lot of good info in the thread explaining why that is and the reasons or at least theories behind them. Good info!

But i dont agree with your post on october. If a hunter is skilled enough to recognize a genetically superior yearling 4 point that hunter is probably not interested in a yearling to begin with. That hunters idea of a freezer buck is probably a very solid 4 point instead.


P.s. where is dana and does he post on here still? Always loved his posts.

Obviously it varies from hunter to hunter in terms of what each person considers "big" but when there are 200" deer killed in every corner of the Province each year, I don't consider 150-170 like the OP stated as "big". The guys I know chasing big bucks put in serious effort and don't even blink at 180, let alone 160..

We most certainly do have those 220"+ bucks here in BC. The guys killing them just like to keep things off the radar here more than other places. I know exactly why they don't want that advertised all over the internet. Different culture here than other places.

My comment about the yearling 4 point is generally the way it is. The overwhelming majority of hunters that are content to shoot a dink 4 like that are just as content to shoot a 2 or 3 point of similar size. For the guys that want to shoot bigger bucks, they should be supportive of the any buck season as that yearling 4 point has a much better chance of escapement than he does in a 4 point season.

[twoSevenO]

What exactly are you giving away if you show a trophy deer from bc? People who are serious already know bucks like that exist. People who arent wont suddenly be investing significant time trying to find them. Those who take 200 inch deer or better put in serious effort snd 99.9% of bc hunters in bc wouldnt even if they saw monster muley pics from their own region as motivation.

As long as you arent posting gps coordinates of where you hunt.

Proguide66 posted some wonderful footage of trophy blacktails. And i wonder how that impacted his hunting of them ... i would guess it didnt.

And even if they are killing them at 220 theyre probably very very few of them. People like to share. People like to get recognition for their success. Why else do we see stories and pics in magazines often submitted for free. The fact that we dont see that here means that very very few of them are taken. Yes, some are tight lipped about it. But if they were taking them in any decent numbers in BC word wouldve been out.

In fact, i cant remember the last time a 200 inch buck was posted here. Anyone know?

Almost every magazine i pick up at the grocery store and look through only has bucks from AB and SK. Very few BC deer.

Lots of good responses though in this thread.

[Wild one]

BC is not managed for trophy it is about allowing max harvest. This is one of the reasons BC has a lower % of big mule deer bucks. Not may places allow 3 bucks a year for prov/state most are 1. Than add in shorter seasons, Leh, and privat land. Let's them have a chance to grow

BC has some tank mule deer but you are going to earn them

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Obviously it varies from hunter to hunter in terms of what each person considers "big" but when there are 200" deer killed in every corner of the Province each year, I don't consider 150-170 like the OP stated as "big". The guys I know chasing big bucks put in serious effort and don't even blink at 180, let alone 160..

We most certainly do have those 220"+ bucks here in BC. The guys killing them just like to keep things off the radar here more than other places. I know exactly why they don't want that advertised all over the internet. Different culture here than other places.

My comment about the yearling 4 point is generally the way it is. The overwhelming majority of hunters that are content to shoot a dink 4 like that are just as content to shoot a 2 or 3 point of similar size. For the guys that want to shoot bigger bucks, they should be supportive of the any buck season as that yearling 4 point has a much better chance of escapement than he does in a 4 point season.

Totally agree.

Guys I know kill big bucks every other year or better. They have positive attitudes and never complain about regulations. They know their prey....while another guy I know constantly complains about the seasons and the slaughter of young Muley bucks and whitetail does. He has killed one decent mule deer in 30 years of hunting. He's hunted high populations and low populations. He's hunted when many others were killing big bucks
in post-burn years. Regulations aren't the reason he isn't killing big bucks. It's his attitude.

[HighCountryBC]

What exactly are you giving away if you show a trophy deer from bc?

It's not even that so much as they are just quiet, humble guys who aren't seeking the spotlight. Like I said before, nothing but respect for guys who go about their business like that. Can't fault a guy for not wanting to be the next Geraldo Rivera..

[HighCountryBC]

Totally agree.

Guys I know kill big bucks every other year or better. They have positive attitudes and never complain about regulations. They know their prey....while another guy I know constantly complains about the seasons and the slaughter of young Muley bucks and whitetail does. He has killed one decent mule deer in 30 years of hunting. He's hunted high populations and low populations. He's hunted when many others were killing big bucks
in post-burn years. Regulations aren't the reason he isn't killing big bucks. It's his attitude.

Funny how that works eh, SSS?

We know a lot of the same people..

[HighCountryBC]

I think one reason the prairies produce big deer is because of the border to border crops and farmland. Lots more easy food for them there than here in BC.




Lots of guys keeping their mouth shut these days. I think you have to with how fast pics spread on phones these days, never mind the internet and plain old word of mouth. One thing we need to keep in mind though is that the B&C and BC record books aren't really bragging boards but a way to keep track of the big game sizes and success of conservation efforts. No doubt its good for bragging rights and that may not appeal to many, but to not list BIG animals is depriving everyone of the historic data. 2c

Great points, LMW. While I totally agree that was the original intention of B&C, unfortunately I think in recent years the focus has switched from being about the animal to being about the hunter.

[twoSevenO]

Totally agree.

Guys I know kill big bucks every other year or better. They have positive attitudes and never complain about regulations. They know their prey....while another guy I know constantly complains about the seasons and the slaughter of young Muley bucks and whitetail does. He has killed one decent mule deer in 30 years of hunting. He's hunted high populations and low populations. He's hunted when many others were killing big bucks
in post-burn years. Regulations aren't the reason he isn't killing big bucks. It's his attitude.

Maybe hes just a crappy hunter whose lack of success led him to blame other factors for his lack of ability to find a big buck.

Its too bad so few of BCs crankers make it to the spotlight. Would be nice to see what is being taken out there

[twoSevenO]

Great points, LMW. While I totally agree that was the original intention of B&C, unfortunately I think in recent years the focus has switched from being about the animal to being about the hunter.

It never even occurred to me it could have been about the animals. Figured it was about hunters all along. Eccellent point.

[the force]

It's been 10 years since I worked with the game and fish dept in Wyoming, and I dont have any facts on how many $$ go into wildlife management here, but I would be pretty confident in saying there is a lot more $$ invested in wildlife and fisheries management south of the line.

[ve7iuq]

A game biologist explained it to us, years ago.
He said BC was the northern range of mule deer, thus conditions were not ideal for them, as it was down into the western states, thus they grow larger down there.

[TrackerJ]

Theres Around 100,000 hunters in B.C. theres around 500,000 in colorado alone. Part of it is comparing 1 province with as little hunters as we have to a whole western side of a country where one state has 5 times the hunters. Theres a thousand times more deer getting shot and hunts getting filmed then in BC so naturally you see a lot more animals of higher caliber. Those numbers of hunters also equals major dollars contributed conservation and game management far beyond what we have. We may get quantity where they may get quality for opportunities. A lot of the time theres a whole group of people on a hunt where only 1 person has a deer tag...same goes for elk etc. A whole team may work hard to try and get that 1 buck down. People will go through great lengths to get a trophy class buck,r horses and backpacking and driving multi days across states to fill 1 deer tag in a good unit.

[TrackerJ]

I would also bet that 80% of bucks that are in that 190-200+ range are in units on draws that you may only get to hunt a few times your entire life. I think people take it to the next level when they have that once in a lifetime tag in their pocket.

[twoSevenO]

Theres Around 100,000 hunters in B.C. theres around 500,000 in colorado alone. Part of it is comparing 1 province with as little hunters as we have to a whole western side of a country where one state has 5 times the hunters. Theres a thousand times more deer getting shot and hunts getting filmed then in BC so naturally you see a lot more animals of higher caliber. Those numbers of hunters also equals major dollars contributed conservation and game management far beyond what we have. We may get quantity where they may get quality for opportunities. A lot of the time theres a whole group of people on a hunt where only 1 person has a deer tag...same goes for elk etc. A whole team may work hard to try and get that 1 buck down. People will go through great lengths to get a trophy class buck,r horses and backpacking and driving multi days across states to fill 1 deer tag in a good unit.

Thats pretty much what ive observed from the youtube videos as well. Spot on.

But i had no idea they had so many more hunters. With a number that high youd think most of the videos would be showing a major gong show going on.

[TrackerJ]

Yea I think that some times they may edit a lot of the gong show out. Ive watched peoples videos on gos type areas where everyone is running up the mtn to get to the vantage points first and start locating deer.

[twoSevenO]

Yea I think that some times they may edit a lot of the gong show out. Ive watched peoples videos on gos type areas where everyone is running up the mtn to get to the vantage points first and start locating deer.

Interesting ... well a video with no one in it obviously looks way better. And with half a million hunters in one state alone I suppose that's expected. That's not a good situation either, despite the size of the deer.

[RadHimself]

from what ive seen, average joe blow doesnt care how or what it looks like. aslong as its got antlers, even if there 3" long and its standing on the road... or just uphll from the road, so its easy to back up to the ditch, put the tailgate down and flip it into the box...

im suprised people arnt whining about why deer cant hang themselves


bad attitude? possibly

have i killed a 200" buck? nope
have i seen one? i dont think so, but ive seen a handful of tanks
I hunt, i have boots and a back pack.

there are things this province should change, we can all agree on that

[twoSevenO]

from what ive seen, average joe blow doesnt care how or what it looks like. aslong as its got antlers, even if there 3" long and its standing on the road... or just uphll from the road, so its easy to back up to the ditch, put the tailgate down and flip it into the box...

im suprised people arnt whining about why deer cant hang themselves

down here or up here? Because what you describe is princeton and tunkwa to the T ... as another member already put it very well, a lot of hunters dont get out of the truck unless it's to pull the trigger. And a lot refuse to shoot a buck downhill because it's too much work .... lol

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Maybe hes just a crappy hunter whose lack of success led him to blame other factors for his lack of ability to find a big buck.

Its too bad so few of BCs crankers make it to the spotlight. Would be nice to see what is being taken out there

He's not a crappy hunter but killing big mulies isn't easy for people
who work lots and have young families.
Guys who do it regularly are extremely dedicated.

Lots of blamers in modern society.

SSS

[twoSevenO]

He's not a crappy hunter but killing big mulies isn't easy for people
who work lots and have young families.
Guys who do it regularly are extremely dedicated.

Lots of blamers in modern society.

SSS

Nothing worth having comes easy .... I would just expect a good hunter to not be the blamer kind but to know that his lack of success at big bucks is due to ... well, exactly what you mentioned. Which is totally normal. Not many people can afford the time required year 'round to track those animals down. Work, family and other hobbies take up a lot of time for most people throughout the year. :)

[Bugle M In]

Obviously it varies from hunter to hunter in terms of what each person considers "big" but when there are 200" deer killed in every corner of the Province each year, I don't consider 150-170 like the OP stated as "big". The guys I know chasing big bucks put in serious effort and don't even blink at 180, let alone 160..

We most certainly do have those 220"+ bucks here in BC. The guys killing them just like to keep things off the radar here more than other places. I know exactly why they don't want that advertised all over the internet. Different culture here than other places.

My comment about the yearling 4 point is generally the way it is. The overwhelming majority of hunters that are content to shoot a dink 4 like that are just as content to shoot a 2 or 3 point of similar size. For the guys that want to shoot bigger bucks, they should be supportive of the any buck season as that yearling 4 point has a much better chance of escapement than he does in a 4 point season.

I'll just add this to the conversation.
Last November, our group met another group at the campground while hunting the November long weekend.
The one guy shows me a few pics off his iPhone of 2 mulies that were just taken.
They were from some guys that had just pulled into a gas station.
Anyways, I will just say this....
I never thought Muley Bucks like those in the Pictures even existed any longer.
They looked like Bucks that may have been taken in the late 1800's.
Beyond belief to say the least!
Super thick bases!, Beams and tines in every direction!
The one buck even had drop tines, that looked like a 2nd set of antlers!
The drop tines on this buck made most typical 4 points look small!
There out there.....!
After seeing that, I just wish I knew where I need to go to find a chance at those.
BC is a big Province, and still many places for deer to hide, regardless of access.
Granted, Wolves are out of control right now, so, finding a big trophy is a little harder.
Also, last season ( I think? ), there was one poster on here who did take a very nice Mule Deer! Heavy and lots of points.
I would imagine, most of the guys taking these big bucks, live in the interior, so they are close to the action.
Easier for them to get out there a lot, but they still put in tons of time, and search out a lot of areas.
If your out there often, you can afford to try different areas, and sooner or later, you will find a spot that has potential.
Either way, those secret areas aren't given out.

[.300WSMImpact!]

the any buck season will limit age range, sask is full LEH which allows most bucks to grow to full mature age, same as the USA, Alberta is controlled by private land which again limits access to deer and allows them to grow to mature age, here in BC the road hunters in the any buck season keep the mature bucks to a minimum, that being said there is a few kicking around but not many compared to other areas, if you put your work in you may find one every 6 years or so, BC is not managed for trophy hunting but for hunting opportunity I dont always like it but it works for most

[Wild one]

The only way BC will see a higher % of large bucks is changing its management goal towards growing bucks. If this was done many of the same hunters who complain about lack of big bucks would be pissed with the loss of a season/shortened season/LEH/lower bag limit to achieve the goal. In reality you just can't make hunters happy even myself lol.

In my opinion BC does not have the same quality of deer hunting that many other places. Seen way more quality deer living and hunting in Alberta but it is a different management system and honestly may hunters in Alberta have a different outlook on there deer hunting goals.

Like I posted earlier that BC has some true tanks for big bucks. I don't think at all that BC lacks generics or the habitat cannot produce big bucks. I have seen some huge deer in BC and often they are in some stupid overlooked spot or some hell hole I pushed into. I don't see a ton of huge deer but enough to know they no doubt exsist in BC.

In my opinion the reason I don't connect on big bucks in BC is the lack of time I can put in and my location has never put me in the position to easily scout good locations enough.

would I like to see some changes in deer management in BC yes but that is not why I am not a consistent big buck killer

I have respect for the hunter who kill big bucks each year because I know they work hard to do it in BC. Hunters of this caliber are everywhere and yes most Canadian hunters don't show off trophy bucks as fast as many hunters to the south this is not just a BC thing but a Canadian thing.

good luck to those who dream of big bucks here in BC. They are out there not in the numbers of some other location but they exsist. Hard work, time, and some luck is needed but it makes a big BC buck a well earned trophy.

[Seeadler]

Don't forget BC is covered in trees meaning lots of bucks never get seen.

[Wild one]

Don't forget BC is covered in trees meaning lots of bucks never get seen.


Many areas out side of BC have bush that does the same thing.

[Seeadler]

Many areas out side of BC have bush that does the same thing.

Not really, deer are far more visible in AB and SK.

[twoSevenO]

As much as i love the beauty of BC it has to be some of the most annoying and miserable hiking out there. If youre trying to bushwack your way into the alpine youre not gonna have any fun. I know i never do. Tight, thick, steep, slippery ... just a nightmare to navigate through. A lot of the forests down here in the south west are too damn thick to even hunt.

But climbing out of that and into the alpine is so worth it.

[Wild one]

Not really, deer are far more visible in AB and SK.

Western Alberta Rockies and foothills have lots of bush and way less clear cuts. The badlands and other locations with lots of deep large coulees full off thick buck brush hide deer very well.

Just as there is places outside of BC that provide great places for deer to hide BC also has locations they are fairly exposed.

[twoSevenO]

Western Alberta Rockies and foothills have lots of bush and way less clear cuts. The badlands and other locations with lots of deep large coulees full off thick buck brush hide deer very well.

Just as there is places outside of BC that provide great places for deer to hide BC also has locations they are fairly exposed.

Which regions offer that? I would expect those regions to get hit pretty hard if they had any decent deer numbers and terrain as accessible as AB or SK low lands.

For me its only been clear cuts and alpine if you want them exposed ... and even then the numbers are not that high. Not nearly what people in the US see.

[Pemby_mess]

Even the dedicated hunters here typically aren't getting into the great wide yonder of BC. I wouldn't think it a stretch to claim that 90% of the deer hunting in the province is occurring within 1.5 kms of a main haul FSR, mostly in travel corridors between major centres and again, mostly in the southern half of the province. In these areas their is a fair amount of pressure and yet still, I would imagine that a large percentage or record bucks are taken in these same hotspots.

In some areas game management maybe be relevant to the size bucks obtain but in large areas of the province I imagine the results of hunting management efforts are largely trivial.

If we take the Coast Mountains as an example - they are nearly, entirely inaccessible to all t=but the most elite, and dedicated hunters. TwoSeven0 - you and I had a discussion recently about the Meager zone. Once you get in there, you are just at the very beginning of a wilderness that stretches virtually unbroken all the way to Alaska. That is repeated in a similar fashion in three or four major mountain ranges across the province.

In the US, you have large tracts of private land in which you have people putting a huge emphasis on "habitat". What they mean by this, isn't wild habitat per se, but they manage rural land specifically to grow large deer. Planting grain between managed stands of trees and so on.

[Wild one]

Which regions offer that? I would expect those regions to get hit pretty hard if they had any decent deer numbers and terrain as accessible as AB or SK low lands.

For me its only been clear cuts and alpine if you want them exposed ... and even then the numbers are not that high. Not nearly what people in the US see.

Closest we have in BC is our sagbrush and it does hold lots of deer. We do have grazing and other farmland in BC as well and even small grasslands all hold deer. Lots of burns as well new ones every year

Alberta and Sask also have the boreal forest. I only have first hand experience in both BC and Alberta. There is a lot of bush country in Alberta than is being thought of in this thread

in reality the reason for less big deer being shot in BC is not because they are too well hidden compared to other areas. The % of big bucks is just lower and should not be surprised when you look at how liberal the seasons and bag limit is in comparison. BC manages deer for meat hunting when trophy is considered in the management of deer outside of BC

I did not realize how big of a difference there was in the deer quality and numbers in Alberta till I spent a few years living and hunting there.

[Bugle M In]

Example,
Spoke with a Bio years ago.
He said that he saw bucks (while flying in heli) that were huge, in areas with very hard access.
Places, like behind Duffy Lake for example, was one place that was mentioned.
These are areas that very few hunters ever get to.

[Wild one]

Example,
Spoke with a Bio years ago.
He said that he saw bucks (while flying in heli) that were huge, in areas with very hard access.
Places, like behind Duffy Lake for example, was one place that was mentioned.
These are areas that very few hunters ever get to.

Dont doubt it but there are locations like this in other areas as well

[twoSevenO]

Closest we have in BC is our sagbrush and it does hold lots of deer. We do have grazing and other farmland in BC as well and even small grasslands all hold deer. Lots of burns as well new ones every year

Alberta and Sask also have the boreal forest. I only have first hand experience in both BC and Alberta. There is a lot of bush country in Alberta than is being thought of in this thread

in reality the reason for less big deer being shot in BC is not because they are too well hidden compared to other areas. The % of big bucks is just lower and should not be surprised when you look at how liberal the seasons and bag limit is in comparison. BC manages deer for meat hunting when trophy is considered in the management of deer outside of BC

I did not realize how big of a difference there was in the deer quality and numbers in Alberta till I spent a few years living and hunting there.

Probably a combination of both, but mostly lower big buck numbers than some other areas.

Lots of great info and explanations in this thread.

[Bugle M In]

Dont doubt it but there are locations like this in other areas as well

Biggest Muley I ever saw was in EK.....Way Way Up there, just on the Sub alpine.
No F'n way I was going up there for him!
If I had had a goat or sheep tag, and was up there, and saw him, well, let's just say my hunt would have been over.
Again, lot's of areas, but, sometimes quite remote to access on a regular basis.
Do agree, there is a difference in Alberta however, as others have stated.
Also, the seasons are shorter then years ago, and lack of snow pushing all the deer in to smaller, easier winter
ranges were obviously it is more easily accessible, contributes to less big bucks being taken...IMO

[Wild one]

Biggest Muley I ever saw was in EK.....Way Way Up there, just on the Sub alpine.
No F'n way I was going up there for him!
If I had had a goat or sheep tag, and was up there, and saw him, well, let's just say my hunt would have been over.
Again, lot's of areas, but, sometimes quite remote to access on a regular basis.
Do agree, there is a difference in Alberta however, as others have stated.
Also, the seasons are shorter then years ago, and lack of snow pushing all the deer in to smaller, easier winter
ranges were obviously it is more easily accessible, contributes to less big bucks being taken...IMO


Stated it my self that I believe the mule deer management is the factor that plays the biggest roll

I also believe both provs hide big bucks in there remote or tough to reach locations. This is why I don't think BC hold more big bucks but they go unseen theory.

I agree 100% big mule hide in some nasty places in BC I have seen it but found it held true in western Alberta as well

[IronNoggin]

... Do agree, there is a difference in Alberta however, as others have stated...

Certainly is. In fact I'd run Southern Alberta up against pretty well any State at this point as for Quality Mulies.
There very much is a reason I hunt Alberta for the Big Boys, and only entertain "eatin' sized" mulies with a bow in my home province... :wink:

Cheers,
Nog

[GoatGuy]

Genetics+habitat+age= big bucks.

plug those variables into BC vs other jurisdictions and the answer is straightforward

[WKCotts]

The majority of monster MD taken in BC are completely off the radar. I can't tell you how many 220"+ MD I have seen in garages and basements that have never seen the Internet or a record book. The mentality up here is different from our neighbours to the south.

Historically BC has produced some of the biggest MD in the world. Not so much the last 25 years, but they are still out there. I wish Dana was still active on this forum as he could shed a little more light on this.

I believe BC has some incredibly remote backcountry that even the most hardcore MD hunter can barely scratch the surface of. AB, Sask and the Western states also has some hiding places, but none have the vast "nasty" backcountry that BC has.

I dont believe our "liberal" MD season helps our big boys out, but I enjoy hunting MD every fall as opposed to once every 10 years.

Eric

[twoSevenO]

I wish Dana was still active on this forum as he could shed a little more light on this.



Where is Dana? What ever happened to him?

[WKCotts]

Where is Dana? What ever happened to him?

Hes around. I have him on Facebook. Just got tired of the BS

[.300WSMImpact!]

If there is huge mule deer around every corner in the deep think HIGH ground, why do the hardcore shed hunters not find the sheds in the wintering grounds, answer is easy, because they get killed at 2 point stage before they can make it to hide deep in the high country, there is always a few that make it and the hardcore GOOD hunter gets, and a few that the lucky not so good hunter like myself get, if we want big bucks we have to limit hunting and I am on the fence with this

[twoSevenO]

If there is huge mule deer around every corner in the deep think HIGH ground, why do the hardcore shed hunters not find the sheds in the wintering grounds, answer is easy, because they get killed at 2 point stage before they can make it to hide deep in the high country, there is always a few that make it and the hardcore GOOD hunter gets, and a few that the lucky not so good hunter like myself get, if we want big bucks we have to limit hunting and I am on the fence with this

This might be a stupid question, but i'm not a shed hunter ..... Does the above assume elusive, big bucks would have easy to find wintering areas? Why would this be the case? I would expect their wintering areas to be just as remote as their summer ranges in some of the cases. So not all of their sheds would be available in easy to access and easy to find areas .... no?

[Gateholio]

Where is Dana? What ever happened to him?

Had a big disagreement over allocations and left iirc

[RadHimself]

youve gone hiking in region 4 right?

i gaurantee there are STILL areas there that have never had human foot traffic through....

[Bugle M In]

This might be a stupid question, but i'm not a shed hunter ..... Does the above assume elusive, big bucks would have easy to find wintering areas? Why would this be the case? I would expect their wintering areas to be just as remote as their summer ranges in some of the cases. So not all of their sheds would be available in easy to access and easy to find areas .... no?

Lately, I think one of the reason sheds are not found is because of the lack of snow in some regions.
I think some deer don't have to go down to their traditional winter ranges.
And yes, not all places are accessible....not with out a s*** load of effort.

[Seeadler]

Lately, I think one of the reason sheds are not found is because of the lack of snow in some regions.
I think some deer don't have to go down to their traditional winter ranges.
And yes, not all places are accessible....not with out a s*** load of effort.

I'll tell you about a buck I saw, it was during one of those terrible winters in the 90's, he was feeding with the cows, only saw him once and he was gone as soon as he saw me.

He was a monster.

It's not likely coincidence that the biggest buck I've ever seen was during an exceptionally hard winter.