I let it walk

[Frango]

Because I am a senior I can shoot a calf moose on certain dates and zones. I have seen many cow/calf combo over the years. Before now I would have just enjoyed watching them and move on. This year however I had a golden opportunity to harvest a calf moose .This was a very nice cow with a single calf which appeared to be female. It was only 50 m from me and a perfect kill angle. I could not pull the trigger. It just goes against the grain to kill a calf ,especially a female although I have no proof it was. Given the depressed moose numbers I question the shooting of calves and cows. We had to leave 5 days early because of too much snow ,so for the first time in many years we came home with no moose for the freezer but it feels good.

[allan]

Good for you! I don't understand cow or calf season.
Good for you to do what you think is best for conservation, just because you can shoot something doesn't mean you always should.

[canucks6]

Cheers man. In my eyes that gains you some serious bush carma. That calf moose would be beyond delicious, but u would have to picture it's cute little face with every bite.
Bc has some serious wildlife management issues and all I can say is thanks for trying to help.

[kilometers]

You can post all the statistics you want about how killling a calf won't effect moose numbers because blah blah blah.
But either way you look at it, it's one less calf that may survive

good on you.

[MichelD]

I think as we get older we tend to think more about what we're doing. No need to score any brag points, but more thought put into the big picture.

[Caribou_lou]

Good on ya! It's not all about coming home with something.

[Caribou_lou]

You can post all the statistics you want about how killling a calf won't effect moose numbers because blah blah blah.
But either way you look at it, it's one less calf that may survive

good on you.

Wait for it. Someone will pipe up

[Corb89]

Good for you!! Ive often said "i'll give up my moose hunt today, so that my kids can hunt them tomorrow"

[two-feet]

I think the "omineca model" of moose management was implemented in a time of relative abundance, now there is a well documented decrease in moose numbers. A new management plan may be needed to bring back the moose.

[albravo2]

Dang, Frango, all the hunts where I don't shoot anything are not nearly as cool as yours.

Good for you. We need more like you.

[TheProvider]

When I started hunting in Ontario calves we open season all season. You bought your tag and entered the draw for an adult tag. If you didn't get an adult tag then you automatically got a calf tag. Guess what happened years down the road? Lots of units had the adult tag numbers cut by 90% the past couple years and they've shortened the calf season.

Never made sense to me.

[moosinaround]

Were you in 7-24 by chance?

[M.Dean]

A man's gott'a do what a man's gott'a do! As long as your happy with leaving the calf, that's all that matters.

[markomoose]

Good on you Frango.I have seen some of your posts/pics from previous years and you seem to have a few HOT SPOTS for hunting.Enjoy your posts/pics! Cheers Mark

[RackStar]

im still waiting for the nay sayer! suprized he hasnt piped up yet..
"one more for the wolves"...

[REMINGTON JIM]

Good on you Frango - Need to Save the Cows ! ;) jmo RJ

[boxhitch]

Thanks for giving up your opportunity and if doing so somehow enhances my success, well I owe you a cold one.
I hope you can get others to rally behind you and support your cause by also giving up their own opportunities.
I wish I had your strength

[boxhitch]

im still waiting for the nay sayer! suprized he hasnt piped up yet..
"one more for the wolves"...It has been said enough, most should know the reasoning and science.No need to repeat

[srupp]

Hmmm admire your decision, and the reasoning behind it....never been in that situation..interesting thought process...
Cheers
Steven

[tigrr]

Good for you Frango. Where's the like button.

[Eva_Hunts]

As a new hunter it's near impossible to avoid some form of brainwashing when it comes to the expectations as a hunter. If you don't have a wise and experienced mentor and you go to the media for information than you end up being mostly grossly misinformed. You then bring that shit you learned to your friends or worse your children and they pick up your bad habits and this perpetual degenerative cycle catches wind. Most every hunting show out there is just about the kill, as are photo based social media platforms, and forums like this to a degree. What this does ( and I'm speaking from first hand experience here) is set a precedence towards immediate gratification without questioning the repercussions.

We're all on this forum looking for engagement, stimulation, connection, but most of all I think guidance. It's few and far between that someone shares a wise anecdote like this. I think we need more folks like you sharing more stories like this, on here and within every hunting community.

I'm trying to unlearn the shit I've been fed. The kill is not the penultimate, having a wild world is, and conserving it is everything.

[Salty]

Well said Eva I like your line of thinking there.

Thanks for sharing Frango always a good reminder the kill is really a small part of it all. And when the chips are down for a species in a given area its an excellent time to let one walk especially a young cow. Like said already I bet the karma will come back your way ;)

[HarryToolips]

Yes well said Eva, and good on ya Frango....so if this area is also experiencing the declining moose #'s, why has the province kept the calf season open? Correct me if I'm wrong, this is in 7a where there's also a spike fork season? If they're not careful, in the years to come that area could lose both GOS's so isn't it better to be conservative and just eliminate the calf season so we can continue to have the spike fork GOS?

[Salix]

Good on you Frango. The calf season and high number of cow LEH's in the past was crazy if you are managing for higher moose numbers.
The reason they have kept the calf season and higher bull LEH numbers in 7-16 and 7-23 is for caribou management. The moose attract wolves and the wolves kill the caribou. The management strategy in these units is to increase the moose kill (reduce moose numbers) and in essence reduce wolf numbers to protect the caribou herds in the area.

[HarryToolips]

^^^^^talking with people when I hunted in Revelstoke area last year, they tried that very same thing in region 4-39, didn't work, and pissed a lot of people off by severely depleting moose numbers in the area..

[Frango]

Were you in 7-24 by chance?
Yes I was.

[mpotzold]

Because I am a senior I can shoot a calf moose on certain dates and zones. I have seen many cow/calf combo over the years. Before now I would have just enjoyed watching them and move on. This year however I had a golden opportunity to harvest a calf moose .This was a very nice cow with a single calf which appeared to be female. It was only 50 m from me and a perfect kill angle. I could not pull the trigger. It just goes against the grain to kill a calf ,especially a female although I have no proof it was. Given the depressed moose numbers I question the shooting of calves and cows. We had to leave 5 days early because of too much snow ,so for the first time in many years we came home with no moose for the freezer but it feels good.

Thank you for giving the calf a chance to grow & procreate. You should be proud of yourself.:smile: LT (LOVER 308 ), my hunting partner for almost 50 years & I have always refused to shoot a calf or cow moose.
If the calf was in fact female she could be responsible for 250 moose being added to the population in her lifetime.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=168


(http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=168)

[Drillbit]

Thank you

Something good will come around for you

[Stone Sheep Steve]

^^^^^talking with people when I hunted in Revelstoke area last year, they tried that very same thing in region 4-39, didn't work, and pissed a lot of people off by severely depleting moose numbers in the area..

Reducing the moose numbers in that area to pre logging numbers was part of the caribou recovery strategy. Moose numbers increased close to four fold due to logging. With increased moose came increased wolf numbers and caribou were caught in the crossfire

[Weatherby Fan]

Hunting is many things, success of a hunt should never depend on weather you killed something or not, as I get older I certainly cherish my time afield more and more, I pass up many bucks most years looking for the one I want, but I always go home happy !

Frango Your a true sportsman in every sense of the word.....cheers

[Husky7mm]

I would have done the same. Surprised with the 70% drop they still have that season:(

[moosinaround]

Yes I was.
Toy hauler and another truck with all the quads? Moosin

[Frango]

Toy hauler and another truck with all the quads? Moosin
Yes indeed .Did we meet?

[moosinaround]

At husky I was fueling up my diesel with camper towing 3 quads. I BSed with a friendly hunter for a few moments. Moosin

[moosinaround]

Yes indeed .Did we meet?
Whoops, in PG at husky on Hart Hwy

[Frango]

At husky I was fueling up my diesel with camper towing 3 quads. I BSed with a friendly hunter for a few moments. Moosin
Yes that was us Pee stop. You guys where up in the Chetwynd area if I recall.. My hunting partners are all very friendly people.

[moosinaround]

Yes that was us Pee stop. You guys where up in the Chetwynd area if I recall.. My hunting partners are all very friendly people.
Yup that was us, why not be friendly, it's better than grouchy! Moosin

[todbartell]

There is no saving that calf moose. It'll likely be wolf shit by mid January

[Stone Sheep Steve]

There is no saving that calf moose. It'll likely be wolf shit by mid January

Yep. Hunters don't have an impact on the moose population. Proof lies next door in Region 5. Population tanked with only LEH for bulls only.

But the wolves thank you.

[Frango]

There is no saving that calf moose. It'll likely be wolf shit by mid January
A nice glass half empty remark. We only saw one wolf track and that was perhaps 20 km from the calf. .Extrapolating on what would become of that calf is completely pointless. I made a choice, end of story.

[todbartell]

Well in reality life isn't all rainbows and sunshine. Calf moose mortality rate is high in the wild, simple fact. Wolves have a large home range and cover a lot of country. High wolf population, unregulated first nation harvest, dwindling moose habitat and ever growing road access is the enemy of the moose, not you. The moose are not safe. You made your choice that is fine, I've passed up on GOS calf moose in the past too for other reasons myself

[finngun]

Usually takes more man,,,not to pull a trigger,,than do it..good for ya,,,,i m sure time will come to pull trigger too..:redface:

[Iltasyuko]

^^^^^talking with people when I hunted in Revelstoke area last year, they tried that very same thing in region 4-39, didn't work, and pissed a lot of people off by severely depleting moose numbers in the area..



Reducing the moose numbers in that area to pre logging numbers was part of the caribou recovery strategy. Moose numbers increased close to four fold due to logging. With increased moose came increased wolf numbers and caribou were caught in the crossfire




What was the end result - less moose and more caribou, or less moose and less caribou?

[Caribou_lou]

Yep. Hunters don't have an impact on the moose population. Proof lies next door in Region 5. Population tanked with only LEH for bulls only.

What about region 6? Bull only and the numbers haven't tanked nearly as much as other regions. We also still have an Open Season for any bull for a week. Im thinking region 5 didn't tank from just the wolves... I much rather see a calf at least have a shot at making it through the winter.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

What was the end result - less moose and more caribou, or less moose and less caribou?
From what I remember from the presentation, reducing moose numbers eventually led to less predation on caribou. At the time of that bio's presentation a couple years ago, it seems that they were happy with the results.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

What about region 6? Bull only and the numbers haven't tanked nearly as much as other regions. We also still have an Open Season for any bull for a week. Im thinking region 5 didn't tank from just the wolves... I much rather see a calf at least have a shot at making it through the winter.

Not overly familiar with the situation in Region 6...but I have heard the moose population around the Ootsa Lake area has been pounded by wolves. I know a group of guys that have been going there for many years and stay with a local rancher. It seem to have held on until the past few years.

SSS

[mpotzold]

There is no saving that calf moose. It'll likely be wolf shit by mid January


Wrong! Fully disagree!
Come Oct. hunting the moose calf is about 6 months old & capable of outrunning the predators. By that time approximately 30 to 40 calves per 100 cows survive the predators & accidents. The survival of the fittest. No doubt some may not make it through the winter.

50% more or less were likely killed by bears & no doubt some also by wolves, cougars & wolverines in the first 2 months.

The number legally harvested by the FN is unknown.

at least 25 to 30 calves per 100 cows are needed to sustain a healthy moose population.
There are little or none to spare so why shoot them?

From last year’s thread

Re: Biologists seek clues to B.C. moose deaths

http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by mpotzold http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1636010#post1636010)
Too many bears is the problem! Wolves are a minor factor.
The study area
http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/downlo...uary_22_14.pdf (http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/downloads/Provincial_moose_monitoring_areas_January_22_14.pd f)
So far 9 out of 19 collared deaths were attributed to wolves. I would bet that none of the newborn calves were collared. If this is the case the study underway is incomplete/lacking.
NOTES
-a moose population requires at least 25 calves per 100 cows to balance losses of adult moose from natural causes, including predation
Higher calf/cow rates(well over 30) are required to support a sustainable hunter harvest
- bear predation is a major mortality factor for moose calves during the first 6 to 8 weeks of life when they’re most vulnerable.-“Bears track a cow moose that is going to give birth. They will snatch it right out from under the old cow’s tail. Simply put, the more bears we have the less moose we will have.”
-unregulated hunters may avoid killing collared moose for the obvious reason
"Caribou calves can outrun bears in 10 days……..It takes moose calves about five weeks until they can outrun a bear.”
http://www.sitnews.us/0709news/070909/070909_ak_science.html (http://www.sitnews.us/0709news/070909/070909_ak_science.html)

Alaskans kill bears to save moose(recent)“Research indicates that predation by bears is playing a significant role in preventing the moose population from increasing. A wolf control program has been in effect in the unit since 2004 but reducing wolf numbers has not had a noticeable effect on the moose population”
http://www.georgesmithmaine.com/arti...ars-save-moose (http://www.georgesmithmaine.com/articles/georges-outdoor-news/october/2014/alaskans-kill-bears-save-moose)
45 of the 54 newborn calves studied died, mostly killed by bears and only 1 by a wolf or coyote. 7 of the calves were abandoned when calf were collared(the risk of collaring a newborn)
http://www.thesewardphoenixlog.com/s...ation/798.html (http://www.thesewardphoenixlog.com/story/2012/11/01/local/bears-take-biggest-bite-of-young-moose-population/798.html)

[palmer]

Good for you...I too let stuff walk from time to time....but never anything with canine teeth

[finngun]

mpotzold---The number legally harvested by the FN is unknown.////====;):roll::eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l4nVByCL44&list=RD3l4nVByCL44#t=101

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Wrong! Fully disagree!
Come Oct. hunting the moose calf is about 6 months old & capable of outrunning the predators. By that time approximately 30 to 40 calves per 100 cows survive the predators & accidents. The survival of the fittest. No doubt some may not make it through the winter.

50% more or less were likely killed by bears & no doubt some also by wolves, cougars & wolverines in the first 2 months.

The number legally harvested by the FN is unknown.

at least 25 to 30 calves per 100 cows are needed to sustain a healthy moose population.
There are little or none to spare so why shoot them?

From last year’s thread

Re: Biologists seek clues to B.C. moose deaths

http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by mpotzold http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1636010#post1636010)
Too many bears is the problem! Wolves are a minor factor.
The study area
http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/downlo...uary_22_14.pdf (http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/downloads/Provincial_moose_monitoring_areas_January_22_14.pd f)
So far 9 out of 19 collared deaths were attributed to wolves. I would bet that none of the newborn calves were collared. If this is the case the study underway is incomplete/lacking.
NOTES
-a moose population requires at least 25 calves per 100 cows to balance losses of adult moose from natural causes, including predation
Higher calf/cow rates(well over 30) are required to support a sustainable hunter harvest
- bear predation is a major mortality factor for moose calves during the first 6 to 8 weeks of life when they’re most vulnerable.-“Bears track a cow moose that is going to give birth. They will snatch it right out from under the old cow’s tail. Simply put, the more bears we have the less moose we will have.”
-unregulated hunters may avoid killing collared moose for the obvious reason
"Caribou calves can outrun bears in 10 days……..It takes moose calves about five weeks until they can outrun a bear.”
http://www.sitnews.us/0709news/070909/070909_ak_science.html (http://www.sitnews.us/0709news/070909/070909_ak_science.html)

Alaskans kill bears to save moose(recent)“Research indicates that predation by bears is playing a significant role in preventing the moose population from increasing. A wolf control program has been in effect in the unit since 2004 but reducing wolf numbers has not had a noticeable effect on the moose population”
http://www.georgesmithmaine.com/arti...ars-save-moose (http://www.georgesmithmaine.com/articles/georges-outdoor-news/october/2014/alaskans-kill-bears-save-moose)
45 of the 54 newborn calves studied died, mostly killed by bears and only 1 by a wolf or coyote. 7 of the calves were abandoned when calf were collared(the risk of collaring a newborn)
http://www.thesewardphoenixlog.com/s...ation/798.html (http://www.thesewardphoenixlog.com/story/2012/11/01/local/bears-take-biggest-bite-of-young-moose-population/798.html)


One important part about the BC study is the fact that it was started close to when the population bottomed out. First Nations, ranchers and hunters had been complaining for several years before the gov't finally decided to look into it. Some of their first results showed survival rates were high enough to maintain a healthy population.

SSS

[drakfero]

Good job! Shooting babies isnt challenge and real hunters dont do that to Moose who is 60% down..

[Stormy]

Well done, and good for you to stay the course - irrespective of what others say.

I have never hunted immature animals, never had the urge to shoot a calf - everybody is different - who am I to criticize?

[Backwoods]

Good on you Frango!!!!

[finngun]

Good job! Shooting babies isnt challenge and real hunters dont do that to Moose who is 60% down..
I totally disagree,,,for me absolutely best meat is moose calf or young deer,,plus i dont need much it,,so i dont care huge animals..
And if ya shoot one out of 2 deer ,bambi, (of coarse no mama deer) like i did years ago chances another to survive over winter is better.
Maybe im not real hunter on ya books,,,but i allways take young animal,,if i can..you can eat big old ones.maybe rack too.:tongue:

[boxhitch]

First Nations, ranchers and hunters had been complaining for several years before the gov't finally decided to look into itDemarchi et al did a study and filed a report dated 2008 pointing out the problems and making predictions, it has proved out so far.

[mpotzold]

I totally disagree,,,for me absolutely best meat is moose calf or young deer,,plus i dont need much it,,so i dont care huge animals..
And if ya shoot one out of 2 deer ,bambi, (of coarse no mama deer) like i did years ago chances another to survive over winter is better.
Maybe im not real hunter on ya books,,,but i allways take young animal,,if i can..you can eat big old ones.maybe rack too.:tongue:

I have nothing against hunting calf or cow moose if it can be proven that there is a surplus. The moose numbers have been in decline & in some regions in perilous decline for some time & it has to be stopped.
There are a lot of factors but the obvious is NO CALVES=NO COWS=NO MOOSE.
Like you I prefer the young animal.

This was a few years ago near Gaspard Creek- Eve saw them first. We were on our way to a camp site & the guns were in the camper. By the time I got one it was too late. My point-I would have shot the smallest one!

http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s558/land51/deer2_zps899af46f.jpg%7Eoriginal

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Demarchi et al did a study and filed a report dated 2008 pointing out the problems and making predictions, it has proved out so far.

Must have missed that one.
Were they able to establish mortality causes or were the red flags just due to low recruitment counts???

[scotty30-06]

Good on ya man!!!

[skibum]

Don't really understand the point of all this - let it walk, ya okay

but why others call someone who doesn't a crappy hunter?

[finngun]

Hunting life (too ) is sometimes complicated..;)it is quite hard please all folks..becouse we dont always see same point as another see..but i am cleaning 5 mallards right now,,and kicking myself,,because that big canada geese was faster runner than mee...;)im sure that stupid bird was running her new record:frown:
But there will be next time too...bigger pellets makes birds heavier...:idea:

[diharv]

Good on you . For as long as I can remember I have always thought the open calf season in Region 7 (don't remember if 6 had one too )was the stupidest idea ever. It's pure good fortune that a cow can find a bull that has survived the slaughter to get impregnated and then survive the late cow season draw and then survive the winter to give birth .Then for the calf to survive the spring and summer. Then have it shot when the bush is crawling with hunters just for this one open season.What are the actual odds of a cow entering the rut being in this position a year later with a healthy calf ? To me the slaughter week in the bush that is open calf season is just wrong . Another stupid one is the late season cow moose draw . If you re going to have a cow draw , have it before the rut so the cows that have been lucky enough to be successfully bred by the already depleted bulls are not shot which is basically killing two animals. The powers that be in govt that for years have fed us the line that region 5 ,6,and 7 moose populations are stable to increasing have mismanaged this wonderful valuable resource into the ground , and that is truely sad. I am sure that due to my newbiness on this forum that I may have some detractors , so please be kind , but these are only my opinions.I don't have scientific evidence to back up my opinions , only 40 years of beating the bush looking for these animals . I only know what I know because of what I have seen. Thats all.

[MOWITCH SLAYER]

Finally someone who knows wildlife management through years of hunting ! My hat is off to you !Too bad we couldn't elect the people who run our wildlife management, cause my vote would go to you !!!

[f350ps]

^^^ I couldn't agree more!! K

[Bugle M In]

Finally someone who knows wildlife management through years of hunting ! My hat is off to you !Too bad we couldn't elect the people who run our wildlife management, cause my vote would go to you !!!

x3....good for you!

[Sangstercraft]

There is no saving that calf moose. It'll likely be wolf shit by mid January

Nice reasoning bud. If that's the case, how the heck does a bull moose become an adult if there's no chance it'll survive being a calf?

[Caribou_lou]

Nice reasoning bud. If that's the case, how the heck does a bull moose become an adult if there's no chance it'll survive being a calf?

He does bring up a solid point. Predators are a problem these days, that's no secret. The fact that calves make it to the fall is a challenge in itself. Majority of Cow moose give birth to twins. So when your out hunting and see a Cow with a single Calf, they have already been through at least one predator attack and lost.

I much rather a Calf moose get the chance to dodge wolves all winter than to be shot in the fall. Majority of calves that survive winter are bull calves. Let them walk this year and go back and harvest him as a 2 point... And a couple hundred pounds heavier!