Province to invest 1.2 million in Moose management

[kebes]

I didn't see anything on this yet. In response to the Gorley report.



http://www.wltribune.com/news/397014601.html?mobile=true

The province announced $1.2 million in funding to help address a decline in B.C. moose populations following the release of a multi-level strategy to restore B.C.’s moose populations, Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Minister Steve Thomson announced this week.
The funding is a response to the Strategy to Help Restore Moose Populations in British Columbia, which advises government to set priorities in key regions and enhance the integration of moose management with other land use activities.
The province is acting on all 21 recommendations in the report, according to a news release issued by the ministry.
Some of the immediate actions taken include:
• Reducing the number of limited-entry hunts for moose cows and calves from 1,792 in 2011 to 200 in 2016.
• Preparing moose management plans for the Peace, Omineca and Cariboo regions.
• Using existing tools to increase habitat protection.
• Expanding moose survey work planned for this winter to include calf mortality.
The moose strategy report was prepared by Al Gorley, who consulted with numerous First Nations, the B.C. Wildlife Federation, the Guide and Outfitters Association of B.C., the Wildlife Stewardship Council, the B.C. Cattlemen’s Association, and the Council of Forest Industries.
The new money is earmarked for on-the-ground activities like habitat enhancement and decommissioning unused forest service roads, which can affect moose survival, as well as research activities.
In his report, release in July 8, 2016, Gorley said the reason for the decline in moose is complicated and likely varies between regions.
“There is uncertainty about the underlying causes, which are likely a combination of altered habitat, hunters and predators, and perhaps even climate change. Many people point to a need for the province to modernize the way it manages for wildlife, taking a more integrated, ecosystem-based approach. Although (my) report is focused on the immediate matter of moose, it could be a first step toward more holistic change,” Gorley said in his report.
Gorley noted the current approach to managing for moose is largely passive — a derivative of other management activities such as timber harvesting, energy development, or other industrial land uses.
“As a result, controlling hunting under the Wildlife Act is often the only tool directly available to wildlife managers — this is not proving to be enough. In fact, the province’s ability to proactively manage for greater moose abundance is seriously constrained by some aspects of the legislation governing other resources. Public sentiment may also be a constraining factor, particularly where predator management is concerned. It will be necessary to make a conscious effort to ensure managing for moose is approached as a key aspect of integrated resource management at every stage.
Several of the recommendations can be implemented under existing conditions. However to succeed, any sustainable effort to restore and maintain moose numbers will have to occur in conjunction with changes to public policy.


Link to the report

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/Restoring-and-Enhancing-Moose-Populations-in-BC-July-8-2016.pdf

[TARCHER]

Good start. Chump change $. Pound a pile of wolves for starters.

[Whonnock Boy]

I have to admit, this is discouraging. I see half a billion allocated for affordable housing in Vancouver, for people who cannot afford to live in Vancouver, which MIGHT house 9000 people. A lack of moose populations impacts a lot more people than that.

[kebes]

I have to admit, this is discouraging. I see half a billion allocated for affordable housing in Vancouver, for people who cannot afford to live in Vancouver, which MIGHT house 9000 people. A lack of moose populations impacts a lot more people than that.

It's a start but I certainly understand your frustration. I also find it interesting that this happens with an election coming down the pipe. But again, it's better than nothing.

[RiverOtter]

Sounds great, should be a big box of 1080 coming in from Australia real soon.......

[gcreek]

Sounds great, should be a big box of 1080 coming in from Australia real soon.......


One could hope.

[Cyrus]

of course nothing about FN hunting. I suspect we will see an end of the calf seasons out there as well as gos in many areas.

[Spy]

Let's see where they spend the measly amount of money, If it don't go to wolf management then we are hooped.

[gcreek]

Let's see where they spend the measly amount of money, If it don't go to wolf management then we are hooped.

It won't. They gave BC Cattlemen's Asso. $300,000 per year for 3 years. As planned behind closed doors, most of it is being pissed away in administration and more training. The govt missed their chance to kill wolves when they first got re elected. Another 3 years and the heat would have been off.

Sad to see the only logical solution is being ignored. BTW, we have 30 or so dry cows again this year and several cattle showing scars and infection as evidence of both wolf and bear attacks.

[Spy]

It won't. They gave BC Cattlemen's Asso. $300,000 per year for 3 years. As planned behind closed doors, most of it is being pissed away in administration and more training. The govt missed their chance to kill wolves when they first got re elected. Another 3 years and the heat would have been off.

Sad to see the only logical solution is being ignored. BTW, we have 30 or so dry cows again this year and several cattle showing scars and infection as evidence of both wolf and bear attacks.
Sounds like you should be hiring hunters to follow and look after your cattle, send the bill to the gov. I agree they will use these "funds"for admin and not tackle the real problem. Sad but true maybe it would pay you to have a well armed hunter/hunters follow your cattle ;-) again send the Gov the bill.

[Bugle M In]

Sounds great, should be a big box of 1080 coming in from Australia real soon.......

have to admit.....made me laugh!
but that would be the best "bang" for our buck!

[Bugle M In]

of course nothing about FN hunting. I suspect we will see an end of the calf seasons out there as well as gos in many areas.

I think soon, all of us on HBC will be meeting each other in person.....
cause, we are "All" going to be stuck hunting in Reg 3 only!

[boxhitch]

its been on the table before

Workshop Recommendations
1. Communicating the habitat needs of moose to other resource ministries and users through land-use plans will ensure a holistic approach to wildlife management.
2. Adjusting moose management in response to increased hunter access due to logging is important for sustainability and balanced age-class structures.
3. A commitment to the North American Wildlife Conservation Model would improve moose management in BC. The model outlines management principles and stipulates that law and science should be the foundation for wildlife management.
4. Improved harvest data collection from First Nations and resident recreational hunters would enhance the foundation guiding wildlife management decisions.
5. Including spike-fork moose in the annual allowable harvest (AAH) will improve moose management in BC.
6. Hunting regulations should reflect the increased percentage of yearling spike-
fork moose.
7. There are other sources of funding for population surveys available to the Ministry of Environment. Guide outfitters can play an important role as the “on the ground” surveyors of animal populations.
8. Collaborative efforts between the Ministry of Environment, Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, and Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) to improve education, signage, and fencing (with overpasses or underpasses) at high collision locations would reduce vehicle/moose collisions.
9. Working collaboratively with the University of Northern British Columbia (UNBC), the Ministry of Environment and Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure can encourage railway companies to take preventative measures to reduce train/moose collisions.
10. The importance of black bear harvest in moose areas should be reinforced.
11. Reviewing the harvest of grizzly bears in areas will help provide healthy moose populations throughout BC.
12. The development of a wolf management plan will ensure efforts are effective
and timely.


Approximately 38,000 resident recreational hunters buy moose tags each year. More than half of the 5,000 non-resident hunters that come to BC annually come to hunt moose

It is estimated that more than 1,000 moose are killed each yearby train between Prince George and Smithers. A forecasted increase in rail traffic in BC in the years to come may lead to increased moose/train collisions.

[gcreek]

Sounds like you should be hiring hunters to follow and look after your cattle, send the bill to the gov. I agree they will use these "funds"for admin and not tackle the real problem. Sad but true maybe it would pay you to have a well armed hunter/hunters follow your cattle ;-) again send the Gov the bill.

I actually do hire a professional hunter/trapper who is permitted to look after predator problems and foot the bill myself. The current structuring of the BCCA predator program leaves no allowance for me to be reimbursed as I (and several others) don't fit their mold.
Very frustrating as I was one of few who got govt. to allocate the funds. Recommendation to place the funds into the Ministry of Agriculture (who already have crop insurance programs in place) fell on deaf ears.

[tigrr]

The study is locate higher moose populations to send in the guides and FN's. FN's need to stop shooting cows. We need less studies and more action. 7 grizzly and a few black bears got all but 1 moose calf this year. The trapper took 4 of the 5 wolves out last winter.
I'd like to see grizzly bear put on open season for 5 years. Tree stand over a moose gut pile anyone?

[Spy]

The study is locate higher moose populations to send in the guides and FN's. FN's need to stop shooting cows. We need less studies and more action. 7 grizzly and a few black bears got all but 1 moose calf this year. The trapper took 4 of the 5 wolves out last winter.
I'd like to see grizzly bear put on open season for 5 years. Tree stand over a moose gut pile anyone?
Good luck with that its hard enough to get a wolf cull, Grizz will be near impossible.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Good luck with that its hard enough to get a wolf cull, Grizz will be near impossible.

They won't touch it with a barge pole. Anyone with an ounce of sense knew that wolf predation in Region 3 along with ticks in the North were the main culprits. Ticks it has been suggested have been exacerbated by mild winters. Wolves have been an ongoing issue.

The best anecdotal evidence about wolves came from trappers and those that are actually in the bush for extended periods of time- hunters. That wasn't taken into account at least not seriously. Then we had the cull in response to the caribou numbers. A cull that was done in the eleventh hour, and according to many, far too late for the low numbers to actually survive, cull or not. The wolf issue is not a management issue, it's a vote issue. Wolves not unlike G bears are "sexy." They are great poster children for the majority who don't know the real issue.

Moose LEH were increased in some MUs in 3 by in some cases by more than double. In 3-40 it went from a historic 10 to 28 for November. In 3-39 it went from a historic of around 10 or 12 to 20 this year for November. Ask the fellow that has the trapping area in 40 and he will tell you that it's working. There are few moose left. Instead of culling wolves which is voter toxic, we as hunters have been in reality culling the moose. It's madness. The Government response? Throw some chump change at it, put out a presser and everyone is put at ease.

[panhead]

It won't. They gave BC Cattlemen's Asso. $300,000 per year for 3 years. As planned behind closed doors, most of it is being pissed away in administration and more training. The govt missed their chance to kill wolves when they first got re elected. Another 3 years and the heat would have been off.

Sad to see the only logical solution is being ignored. BTW, we have 30 or so dry cows again this year and several cattle showing scars and infection as evidence of both wolf and bear attacks.

That's probably only enough of our money to change the reg's so we think we are helping save some moose. C'mon Christie spend some real money and get a few votes ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standing still as everyone takes a step back is the same as moving forward

[Big Lew]

As mentioned, the recent several years of mild winters have drastically increased the
tick populations which in turn has apparently seriously effected moose survival rates.
If this is so, how can this issue be addressed? Ticks effect cattle and us as well. I haven't
read any literature that suggests tick problems have been controlled or drastically reduced
successfully from any country.

[kebes]

As mentioned, the recent several years of mild winters have drastically increased the
tick populations which in turn has apparently seriously effected moose survival rates.
If this is so, how can this issue be addressed? Ticks effect cattle and us as well. I haven't
read any literature that suggests tick problems have been controlled or drastically reduced
successfully from any country.

Not that I don't believe the tick issue may be a culprit, but I'm curious why the moose numbers in areas of the Okanagan seem to be strong as it's not a cold area?

[Bigdoggdon]

$1.2 Million is a joke. When is the Government going to wake up and realize that MOOSE ARE BUSINESS. Each year 10s of thousands of hunters from the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island and even People from around the world journey to Northern BC in search of moose. These hunters contribute $MILLIONS to the Northern BC economy (fuel, groceries, hotels, supplies, vehicle services, ect...). If there are no moose are these dollars still going to be spent here, probably not. Did anyone bother to measure the economic impact on the Chilcotin when the Region 5 GOS for moose was closed years ago or the impact on Region 7a with the recent closure of the calf season.

Lets look at every poblem we can think of thats causing the decline in moose and solve them.

First off Wolves. Wipe them out. Not cull them, not perform "targeted reductions in key areas", eradicate them. With calf mortality rates as high as 90% in some areas its no wonder there are less and less moose around each year. We should be dropping PALLETS OF POISON out there for them as well as sending out helicopter gunships to mow down the rest. Wolves are opportunistic and addaptable predators, their populations have eploded in the last few decades. They have expanded into areas that are not part of their historical territory using ROADS WE BUILT. The over population of wolves isnt "natures way", we caused this, we need to fix it, NOW. Only 2 things can stop them naturally, starvation and disease, any starvation doesnt occur until they have exhausted ALL available food souces (moose, elk, deer, sheep, caribou, ect...). Wolves do not contribute anywhere near the amout to the economy that moose do and lets face it most of us hunters arent going to fix this ourselves. Very few hunters out there go "Wolf Hunting", wolves are a target of opportunity that occasionally present themselves while we're out hunting something else. I've had a "shoot on sight" mentality with regard to wolves all my life, do you know how many I've killed, zero. Ive seen wolves on ten occaisions, 5 times from the highway while working, 3 times they ran off before I could get a shot, once I got a shot at one running, and most recently I watched a pack of 10-12 of them working their way up through a slash accross the valley from me (maybe if I took a running start and through my gun in the air as I squeezed the trigger I could have got a bullet over there).

Second Ticks. Eridicate them. We seem to have poison sprays and bacteria for every other pest that inconveniences us (mosquitoes, grasshoppers, gypsy moths). All it takes is for someone to give a sh!t enough to have a targeted biological solution created.

Third the Mountain Pine Bettle. The beetle itself isnt so much the culprit here, its more our reponse to it that has created the problem. In an effort to bring timber to market while the trees are still usable the forest practices code seems to have been thrown out the window. Where the logging companies used to harvest a small block of timber and then leave several blocks of timber as a buffer before harvesting another one, they now wipe out ENTIRE VALLEYS further than the eye can see. Furthermore they are EXPLOITING the low stumpage paid on blocks of dead pines but actually targeting areas that have a high percentage of spruce. Where are these areas with high spruce content? In the swamps and valley basins, THE PRIME MOOSE BREEDING and WINTERING AREAS, thus opening them up to predation and hunting pressure.

Vehicle Fatalities. I once heard that more moose are killed each year by trucks and cars than by hunting, not sure if it's true but it seems plausible. I do a lot of highway driving for work and I almost every trip I do I see evidence of roadkill. We need to create timber free buffer zones around our highways, hundred yard wide treeless paths to allow motorists to see wildlife more easily. Introduce driver education programs on how to recognize and avoid wildlife. When driving I'm constantly on the lookout for game (well maybe that's the hunter in me) but I'm shocked at how many people I've ridden with or had as a passenger that dont see things or even look. We need to outlaw the use of "cattle cages" on the front of long haul trucks, maybe if there was a prospect that an animal was likely to damage their vehicle they might attempt to avoid hitting an animal rather than simply plow through.

First Nations Hunting. Not saying stop it but we need to know whats its impact is. What are they harvesting? How many? Where? Cow, Calf or Bull? Time and time again the government refers to our "First Nations Partners" so where is their harvest data. First Nations People call themselves "Stewards or the Environment", great help us out by reporting your kills. Stop the exploitation of First Nations Hunting rights. A First Nations Person has the right to hunt and harvest an unrestricted amout of game within their bands "Traditional Territory". If they hunt outside their traditional territory they are supposed to apply for Limited Entry or follow GOS regulations, enforcement of this is practically non-existant.

Anyway I feel like I'm starting to ramble, I should probably buy you a beer if you've read this far.

The short summation is The Moose population means business dollars for Northern BC, whether you're a hunter or not Everyone in the North benefits in some way from the economic contributions that Moose Hunters make. We cannot allow this resource to dry up or vanish. I've already written to my MLA and the Minister about these concerns. Something needs to be done NOW, not discussed in committee, not studied for a few years until the interest level or attention to the issue dies off, not differred to the next fiscal period. FIX IT, NOW.

[Seeadler]

Buy a Black Bear tag and fill it if the chance comes up.

[Rob Chipman]

$1.2 million is better than nothing, but from where I sit we need a ton of data as a starting point. Bigdoggdon hit a lot of nails on the head. Moose can generate a ton of money for people. A bigger moose population would benefit everyone from the guy who puts the moose in the freezer to all the people selling him stuff to support the hunt.

Wolves? How can we get mainstream non-hunting taxpayers to buy into killing wolves who FB is covered with posts saying "don't shoot wolves"? We have to take a lesson from people like AirBnB. They start getting flack in the Lower Mainland when they enter the market because they're accused of taking away potential rental housing in a very expensive city. Soon after they've got commercials running on TV...trying to change the conversation and portray AirBnB as a good thing for people trying to afford to keep their houses in Vancouver. Until we get good science indicating the predators have an effect on moose populations we aren't going to see any serious predator control and we sure aren't going to see the government "wake up". Can you imagine being the politician calling for killing wolves next May? It wouldn't be pleasant come vote counting night.

Ticks are a similar, but maybe easier problem. However, spraying to kill bugs is a hard sell. Even spraying to kill zika carrying mosquitos ran into resistance this summer in Florida.

Vehicle mortality? "I once heard that more moose are killed each year by trucks and cars than by hunting, not sure if it's true but it seems plausible." I've heard it too. Why don't we have the actual numbers? Is a moose/vehicle collision not the subject of an insurance claim? Don't we track insurance claims? I'll bet $20 we've actually got that info if we had the time, energy and money to look.

Add in train deaths and the number is higher.

I'm really curious about the effect of MPB. We've seen the huge clear cuts from extraction and my untutored brain wonders the same: sure, lots of potential new feed, but I go find a nice looking moose swamp/meadow but it's often nowhere near any good looking timber shelter or refuge. How hard as the change of habitat hurt moose? We need that studied. Does wide open habitat expose them to more predation? Does it hurt wintering survival? We gotta have that information.

FN hunting needs to be counted. It won't be counted without FN cooperation. We need to build that relationship.

Still, the $1.2 million is a step in the right direction.

[panhead]

$1.2 Million is a joke. When is the Government going to wake up and realize that MOOSE ARE BUSINESS. Each year 10s of thousands of hunters from the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island and even People from around the world journey to Northern BC in search of moose. These hunters contribute $MILLIONS to the Northern BC economy (fuel, groceries, hotels, supplies, vehicle services, ect...). If there are no moose are these dollars still going to be spent here, probably not. Did anyone bother to measure the economic impact on the Chilcotin when the Region 5 GOS for moose was closed years ago or the impact on Region 7a with the recent closure of the calf season.

Lets look at every poblem we can think of thats causing the decline in moose and solve them.

First off Wolves. Wipe them out. Not cull them, not perform "targeted reductions in key areas", eradicate them. With calf mortality rates as high as 90% in some areas its no wonder there are less and less moose around each year. We should be dropping PALLETS OF POISON out there for them as well as sending out helicopter gunships to mow down the rest. Wolves are opportunistic and addaptable predators, their populations have eploded in the last few decades. They have expanded into areas that are not part of their historical territory using ROADS WE BUILT. The over population of wolves isnt "natures way", we caused this, we need to fix it, NOW. Only 2 things can stop them naturally, starvation and disease, any starvation doesnt occur until they have exhausted ALL available food souces (moose, elk, deer, sheep, caribou, ect...). Wolves do not contribute anywhere near the amout to the economy that moose do and lets face it most of us hunters arent going to fix this ourselves. Very few hunters out there go "Wolf Hunting", wolves are a target of opportunity that occasionally present themselves while we're out hunting something else. I've had a "shoot on sight" mentality with regard to wolves all my life, do you know how many I've killed, zero. Ive seen wolves on ten occaisions, 5 times from the highway while working, 3 times they ran off before I could get a shot, once I got a shot at one running, and most recently I watched a pack of 10-12 of them working their way up through a slash accross the valley from me (maybe if I took a running start and through my gun in the air as I squeezed the trigger I could have got a bullet over there).

Second Ticks. Eridicate them. We seem to have poison sprays and bacteria for every other pest that inconveniences us (mosquitoes, grasshoppers, gypsy moths). All it takes is for someone to give a sh!t enough to have a targeted biological solution created.

Third the Mountain Pine Bettle. The beetle itself isnt so much the culprit here, its more our reponse to it that has created the problem. In an effort to bring timber to market while the trees are still usable the forest practices code seems to have been thrown out the window. Where the logging companies used to harvest a small block of timber and then leave several blocks of timber as a buffer before harvesting another one, they now wipe out ENTIRE VALLEYS further than the eye can see. Furthermore they are EXPLOITING the low stumpage paid on blocks of dead pines but actually targeting areas that have a high percentage of spruce. Where are these areas with high spruce content? In the swamps and valley basins, THE PRIME MOOSE BREEDING and WINTERING AREAS, thus opening them up to predation and hunting pressure.

Vehicle Fatalities. I once heard that more moose are killed each year by trucks and cars than by hunting, not sure if it's true but it seems plausible. I do a lot of highway driving for work and I almost every trip I do I see evidence of roadkill. We need to create timber free buffer zones around our highways, hundred yard wide treeless paths to allow motorists to see wildlife more easily. Introduce driver education programs on how to recognize and avoid wildlife. When driving I'm constantly on the lookout for game (well maybe that's the hunter in me) but I'm shocked at how many people I've ridden with or had as a passenger that dont see things or even look. We need to outlaw the use of "cattle cages" on the front of long haul trucks, maybe if there was a prospect that an animal was likely to damage their vehicle they might attempt to avoid hitting an animal rather than simply plow through.

First Nations Hunting. Not saying stop it but we need to know whats its impact is. What are they harvesting? How many? Where? Cow, Calf or Bull? Time and time again the government refers to our "First Nations Partners" so where is their harvest data. First Nations People call themselves "Stewards or the Environment", great help us out by reporting your kills. Stop the exploitation of First Nations Hunting rights. A First Nations Person has the right to hunt and harvest an unrestricted amout of game within their bands "Traditional Territory". If they hunt outside their traditional territory they are supposed to apply for Limited Entry or follow GOS regulations, enforcement of this is practically non-existant.

Anyway I feel like I'm starting to ramble, I should probably buy you a beer if you've read this far.

The short summation is The Moose population means business dollars for Northern BC, whether you're a hunter or not Everyone in the North benefits in some way from the economic contributions that Moose Hunters make. We cannot allow this resource to dry up or vanish. I've already written to my MLA and the Minister about these concerns. Something needs to be done NOW, not discussed in committee, not studied for a few years until the interest level or attention to the issue dies off, not differred to the next fiscal period. FIX IT, NOW.

Well stated ... access, wolves, ticks, and pine beetle are the combined culprit's. Worked in the rail industry for 40 years and have a few friends .. will ask about the train kills. Don't think the wolves will ever "starve themselves out" as ranchers supply easy prey. They are here to stay unless govt. does something unpalatable to the voting electorate. Sorry to say grizzly hunting will end soon too ... now about that free beer?
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The way to catch a husband is to do your spooning in the kitchen

[Bugle M In]

Yes, death due to vehicle are probably higher than hunter success rate...at least in some areas for sure.
As for these large clearcuts, you know, areas where most of the land is cut, and little in the way of old growth,
makes me wonder how much more success is given to wolves capturing their prey.
Is it safe to say wolves kill most of their prey in "open areas" as compared to "well timbered" areas??
If so, that has probably given the single most rise to wolf increases in population.

[Rob Chipman]

While doing a bit of bear butchering this afternoon I watched a good documentary on moose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TooduMCpdbs

The guy tracks a cow/calf pair through the year, as well as partly tracking a second pair. The impact of predation is mentioned a couple times (a park official says "our moose numbers vary mostly as a result of predation", for example, and the scientists talk about if in passing in a simple matter of fact way). Recruitment numbers are also interesting.

[Arctic Lake]

Hmmmm.... Really, kind of makes your head spin ! I know one thing for sure, the average hunter drops some good money going moose hunting. Fuel, meals on the road, gear you thought you packed but didn't, and it goes on.

I know we have the B.C Wildlife Federation but what about something like the Moose Foundation . Seriously, HONEST people interested in the well being of Moose as a resource in many ways ! There are some very intelligent people on this site. You need seasoned moose hunters , biologists, loggers, trappers,etc. all concerned parties.Maybe it starts with a few people sitting around a kitchen table and goes from there. Volunteers ! It would be something not aimed at sucking people in so others could profit !

Ok maybe I'm a dreamer !
Arctic Lake

[gcreek]

$1.2 Million is a joke. When is the Government going to wake up and realize that MOOSE ARE BUSINESS. Each year 10s of thousands of hunters from the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island and even People from around the world journey to Northern BC in search of moose. These hunters contribute $MILLIONS to the Northern BC economy (fuel, groceries, hotels, supplies, vehicle services, ect...). If there are no moose are these dollars still going to be spent here, probably not. Did anyone bother to measure the economic impact on the Chilcotin when the Region 5 GOS for moose was closed years ago or the impact on Region 7a with the recent closure of the calf season.

Lets look at every poblem we can think of thats causing the decline in moose and solve them.

First off Wolves. Wipe them out. Not cull them, not perform "targeted reductions in key areas", eradicate them. With calf mortality rates as high as 90% in some areas its no wonder there are less and less moose around each year. We should be dropping PALLETS OF POISON out there for them as well as sending out helicopter gunships to mow down the rest. Wolves are opportunistic and addaptable predators, their populations have eploded in the last few decades. They have expanded into areas that are not part of their historical territory using ROADS WE BUILT. The over population of wolves isnt "natures way", we caused this, we need to fix it, NOW. Only 2 things can stop them naturally, starvation and disease, any starvation doesnt occur until they have exhausted ALL available food souces (moose, elk, deer, sheep, caribou, ect...). Wolves do not contribute anywhere near the amout to the economy that moose do and lets face it most of us hunters arent going to fix this ourselves. Very few hunters out there go "Wolf Hunting", wolves are a target of opportunity that occasionally present themselves while we're out hunting something else. I've had a "shoot on sight" mentality with regard to wolves all my life, do you know how many I've killed, zero. Ive seen wolves on ten occaisions, 5 times from the highway while working, 3 times they ran off before I could get a shot, once I got a shot at one running, and most recently I watched a pack of 10-12 of them working their way up through a slash accross the valley from me (maybe if I took a running start and through my gun in the air as I squeezed the trigger I could have got a bullet over there).

Second Ticks. Eridicate them. We seem to have poison sprays and bacteria for every other pest that inconveniences us (mosquitoes, grasshoppers, gypsy moths). All it takes is for someone to give a sh!t enough to have a targeted biological solution created.

Third the Mountain Pine Bettle. The beetle itself isnt so much the culprit here, its more our reponse to it that has created the problem. In an effort to bring timber to market while the trees are still usable the forest practices code seems to have been thrown out the window. Where the logging companies used to harvest a small block of timber and then leave several blocks of timber as a buffer before harvesting another one, they now wipe out ENTIRE VALLEYS further than the eye can see. Furthermore they are EXPLOITING the low stumpage paid on blocks of dead pines but actually targeting areas that have a high percentage of spruce. Where are these areas with high spruce content? In the swamps and valley basins, THE PRIME MOOSE BREEDING and WINTERING AREAS, thus opening them up to predation and hunting pressure.

Vehicle Fatalities. I once heard that more moose are killed each year by trucks and cars than by hunting, not sure if it's true but it seems plausible. I do a lot of highway driving for work and I almost every trip I do I see evidence of roadkill. We need to create timber free buffer zones around our highways, hundred yard wide treeless paths to allow motorists to see wildlife more easily. Introduce driver education programs on how to recognize and avoid wildlife. When driving I'm constantly on the lookout for game (well maybe that's the hunter in me) but I'm shocked at how many people I've ridden with or had as a passenger that dont see things or even look. We need to outlaw the use of "cattle cages" on the front of long haul trucks, maybe if there was a prospect that an animal was likely to damage their vehicle they might attempt to avoid hitting an animal rather than simply plow through.

First Nations Hunting. Not saying stop it but we need to know whats its impact is. What are they harvesting? How many? Where? Cow, Calf or Bull? Time and time again the government refers to our "First Nations Partners" so where is their harvest data. First Nations People call themselves "Stewards or the Environment", great help us out by reporting your kills. Stop the exploitation of First Nations Hunting rights. A First Nations Person has the right to hunt and harvest an unrestricted amout of game within their bands "Traditional Territory". If they hunt outside their traditional territory they are supposed to apply for Limited Entry or follow GOS regulations, enforcement of this is practically non-existant.

Anyway I feel like I'm starting to ramble, I should probably buy you a beer if you've read this far.

The short summation is The Moose population means business dollars for Northern BC, whether you're a hunter or not Everyone in the North benefits in some way from the economic contributions that Moose Hunters make. We cannot allow this resource to dry up or vanish. I've already written to my MLA and the Minister about these concerns. Something needs to be done NOW, not discussed in committee, not studied for a few years until the interest level or attention to the issue dies off, not differred to the next fiscal period. FIX IT, NOW.

You are welcome for coffee here anytime.........

[gcreek]

Yes, death due to vehicle are probably higher than hunter success rate...at least in some areas for sure.
As for these large clearcuts, you know, areas where most of the land is cut, and little in the way of old growth,
makes me wonder how much more success is given to wolves capturing their prey.
Is it safe to say wolves kill most of their prey in "open areas" as compared to "well timbered" areas??
If so, that has probably given the single most rise to wolf increases in population.

They will kill whatever and wherever the opportunity offers. They even dig bears out of their winter dens.

[Darksith]

Must be an election year, the cash sure is flowing

[gcreek]

Must be an election year, the cash sure is flowing

Soon the bullshit from all sides will be also.

[HarryToolips]

$1.2 Million is a joke. When is the Government going to wake up and realize that MOOSE ARE BUSINESS. Each year 10s of thousands of hunters from the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island and even People from around the world journey to Northern BC in search of moose. These hunters contribute $MILLIONS to the Northern BC economy (fuel, groceries, hotels, supplies, vehicle services, ect...). If there are no moose are these dollars still going to be spent here, probably not. Did anyone bother to measure the economic impact on the Chilcotin when the Region 5 GOS for moose was closed years ago or the impact on Region 7a with the recent closure of the calf season.

Lets look at every poblem we can think of thats causing the decline in moose and solve them.

First off Wolves. Wipe them out. Not cull them, not perform "targeted reductions in key areas", eradicate them. With calf mortality rates as high as 90% in some areas its no wonder there are less and less moose around each year. We should be dropping PALLETS OF POISON out there for them as well as sending out helicopter gunships to mow down the rest. Wolves are opportunistic and addaptable predators, their populations have eploded in the last few decades. They have expanded into areas that are not part of their historical territory using ROADS WE BUILT. The over population of wolves isnt "natures way", we caused this, we need to fix it, NOW. Only 2 things can stop them naturally, starvation and disease, any starvation doesnt occur until they have exhausted ALL available food souces (moose, elk, deer, sheep, caribou, ect...). Wolves do not contribute anywhere near the amout to the economy that moose do and lets face it most of us hunters arent going to fix this ourselves. Very few hunters out there go "Wolf Hunting", wolves are a target of opportunity that occasionally present themselves while we're out hunting something else. I've had a "shoot on sight" mentality with regard to wolves all my life, do you know how many I've killed, zero. Ive seen wolves on ten occaisions, 5 times from the highway while working, 3 times they ran off before I could get a shot, once I got a shot at one running, and most recently I watched a pack of 10-12 of them working their way up through a slash accross the valley from me (maybe if I took a running start and through my gun in the air as I squeezed the trigger I could have got a bullet over there).

Second Ticks. Eridicate them. We seem to have poison sprays and bacteria for every other pest that inconveniences us (mosquitoes, grasshoppers, gypsy moths). All it takes is for someone to give a sh!t enough to have a targeted biological solution created.

Third the Mountain Pine Bettle. The beetle itself isnt so much the culprit here, its more our reponse to it that has created the problem. In an effort to bring timber to market while the trees are still usable the forest practices code seems to have been thrown out the window. Where the logging companies used to harvest a small block of timber and then leave several blocks of timber as a buffer before harvesting another one, they now wipe out ENTIRE VALLEYS further than the eye can see. Furthermore they are EXPLOITING the low stumpage paid on blocks of dead pines but actually targeting areas that have a high percentage of spruce. Where are these areas with high spruce content? In the swamps and valley basins, THE PRIME MOOSE BREEDING and WINTERING AREAS, thus opening them up to predation and hunting pressure.

Vehicle Fatalities. I once heard that more moose are killed each year by trucks and cars than by hunting, not sure if it's true but it seems plausible. I do a lot of highway driving for work and I almost every trip I do I see evidence of roadkill. We need to create timber free buffer zones around our highways, hundred yard wide treeless paths to allow motorists to see wildlife more easily. Introduce driver education programs on how to recognize and avoid wildlife. When driving I'm constantly on the lookout for game (well maybe that's the hunter in me) but I'm shocked at how many people I've ridden with or had as a passenger that dont see things or even look. We need to outlaw the use of "cattle cages" on the front of long haul trucks, maybe if there was a prospect that an animal was likely to damage their vehicle they might attempt to avoid hitting an animal rather than simply plow through.

First Nations Hunting. Not saying stop it but we need to know whats its impact is. What are they harvesting? How many? Where? Cow, Calf or Bull? Time and time again the government refers to our "First Nations Partners" so where is their harvest data. First Nations People call themselves "Stewards or the Environment", great help us out by reporting your kills. Stop the exploitation of First Nations Hunting rights. A First Nations Person has the right to hunt and harvest an unrestricted amout of game within their bands "Traditional Territory". If they hunt outside their traditional territory they are supposed to apply for Limited Entry or follow GOS regulations, enforcement of this is practically non-existant.

Anyway I feel like I'm starting to ramble, I should probably buy you a beer if you've read this far.

The short summation is The Moose population means business dollars for Northern BC, whether you're a hunter or not Everyone in the North benefits in some way from the economic contributions that Moose Hunters make. We cannot allow this resource to dry up or vanish. I've already written to my MLA and the Minister about these concerns. Something needs to be done NOW, not discussed in committee, not studied for a few years until the interest level or attention to the issue dies off, not differred to the next fiscal period. FIX IT, NOW.
When ya wrote your MLA and the minister, I hope this is what you wrote to them well done...and hell with it, why don't we just start poisoning wolves ourselves, why wait for the government to do it we know it won't get done..

[Rob Chipman]

"why don't we just start poisoning wolves ourselves, why wait for the government to do it we know it won't get done.."

That'd be a twist on crowd-sourcing, wouldn't it? I'm not saying we should do it, but your idea (the doing it ourselves part, regardless of what we decide "it" is in a specific case) has some obvious merit.

We know BCWF can't do some things because of it's tax status.

We know the government wants to please a lot of different voters, so won't take direct action.

We know the government has other plans for tax money rather than wildlife.

We know that biologists and COs need more funding to do their jobs properly.

We know that biologists dealing with dwindling populations always cite predation as a problem (there may be other, bigger problems like habitat, but predator control is often a "stop the bleeding" aspect of the solution - look at mountain caribou).

Anyway, with the advent of the internet crowd-sourcing of money and other things has allowed people to accomplish a lot of what only government used to be able to do, and to do it better.

The best example is probably Kickstarter and the National Endowment For the Arts in the US. In 2012 the NEA funded $146 million worth of arts projects in the US. Kickstarter funded $323 million. Kickstarter isn't the only crowd sourcing platform funding the arts, so the total number is way higher.

Before crowdsourcing the arts would have been getting just the $146 million. Now it's getting probably 3 times that.

Crowdsourcing is like a voluntary tax that takes out the government middleman. It's something to think about. We'd probably get in trouble trying to raise money through Kickstarter to poison wolves (I'm guessing....). But, how much does a radio collar cost, on a cow moose, so the we can track where she is, if she had a calf, and whether the calf survives?

[Bugle M In]

"why don't we just start poisoning wolves ourselves, why wait for the government to do it we know it won't get done.."

That'd be a twist on crowd-sourcing, wouldn't it? I'm not saying we should do it, but your idea (the doing it ourselves part, regardless of what we decide "it" is in a specific case) has some obvious merit.

We know BCWF can't do some things because of it's tax status.

We know the government wants to please a lot of different voters, so won't take direct action.

We know the government has other plans for tax money rather than wildlife.

We know that biologists and COs need more funding to do their jobs properly.

We know that biologists dealing with dwindling populations always cite predation as a problem (there may be other, bigger problems like habitat, but predator control is often a "stop the bleeding" aspect of the solution - look at mountain caribou).

Anyway, with the advent of the internet crowd-sourcing of money and other things has allowed people to accomplish a lot of what only government used to be able to do, and to do it better.

The best example is probably Kickstarter and the National Endowment For the Arts in the US. In 2012 the NEA funded $146 million worth of arts projects in the US. Kickstarter funded $323 million. Kickstarter isn't the only crowd sourcing platform funding the arts, so the total number is way higher.

Before crowdsourcing the arts would have been getting just the $146 million. Now it's getting probably 3 times that.

Crowdsourcing is like a voluntary tax that takes out the government middleman. It's something to think about. We'd probably get in trouble trying to raise money through Kickstarter to poison wolves (I'm guessing....). But, how much does a radio collar cost, on a cow moose, so the we can track where she is, if she had a calf, and whether the calf survives?




I hear ya, agreed, it's a thought.
Not sure what is legal when it comes to wolves....but....are we allowed to bait with some dead old cattle parts in the
winter??.....if so.....here's another option for pests.....
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=29d_1412811329

[boxhitch]

Enough of the studies already, its all been done somewhere. We know how they respond to logging, to wildfires, to pests, to predators, to changing landscape
Just build the habitat and they will come.
Change logging practices with wildlife of all kinds in mind and BC will be Super again.

[bearvalley]

Enough of the studies already, its all been done somewhere. We know how they respond to logging, to wildfires, to pests, to predators, to changing landscape

X2 on that.
The studies have all been done...it's now time for the corrective steps to be taken.
If the province wants to commit itself fully to wildlife recovery it can be done...and it won't take forever.
Asking for more re-studies of an already researched problem won't make one single animal on the ground.
It's a rut we've allowed ourselves to be led into.

[Bugle M In]

Studies and commission, is ramped in all of politics.
It how their buddies make money.
It's why there is no money to put toward problem.
Studies just come back saying "need to study more" or "need money to such and such to fix"
Then nothing more happens, as ministry has no money.

[Rob Chipman]

"Enough of the studies already, its all been done somewhere".

I can't disagree too much. Watching the moose documentary I was mentioning they pointed out (as we know) that moose are suffering continent wide. They also had a moose studying biologist from Minnesota there who was collaring calves and tracking them. There has to be a sh*tload of studies across the continent, and for that matter, in Europe as well, dealing with moose. It would be good to try to get access to the info. Two reasons: first, we might learn something, and second, anti-hunting advocates continually point to a lack of science based info when it comes to making decisions here. More scientific knowledge is a way to try to marginalized them, which we're going to have to try to do. They're pros, they've got an agenda they stick to, and if we don't respond wisely we'll lose our rights.

"..it's now time for the corrective steps to be taken.
If the province wants to commit itself fully to wildlife recovery it can be done.."

Again, I don't disagree. It is time to take corrective action. Unfortunately, I have seen no indication that the province wants to commit itself fully to wildlife recovery. An awful lot of posts on this thread seem to be saying the $1.2 million is nowhere near enough, and as Whonnock Boy pointed out, they'll spend more on a homelessness program that won't make a huge dent. I'll add that the City of Vancouver spent considerably more than that on bike lanes. The bike share program (a completely separate program from the bike lanes) is reported to be costing the city $5 million over 5 years. I see a good start in the $1.2 million for moose, but I sure as hell don't see a province fully committed to wildlife recovery. I don't think we should fool ourselves that the government will lead on this.

Here's the info I'd like to know about BC moose. If it's available somewhere already please point me to it.

1) How many moose we really have, and where they are;
2) Calf recruitment rate;
3) hunter kill numbers;
4) vehicle kill numbers;
5) FN kill numbers;
6) number needed to maintain a healthy population;
7) number needed for FN traditional use;
8) more records of what's killing moose (I know that some of #8 exists because provincial bios have shared some of that with me, but I don't think we've got enough).

Another buzz phrase of the internet age is "disintermediation", meaning roughly "remove the middleman". Amazon selling directly to you online instead of through a store is an example. If we want money to go to a wildlife biologist to study moose, but let it go from our pockets to the Feds, and from them to the province, and from the province, finally, to a wildlife biologist, the biologist is probably lucky to see a nickel for every wildlife dollar that we pay in income tax.

If we were to remove the middleman that the government is it wouldn't be that hard to get the biologist 10 times as much money. All we'd need is government permission to collar moose (if in fact that's what was needed).

Think it can't happen? I recall hearing somewhere, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe it was on this very same forum, that there is a new grizzly bear foundation that is about to start doing the very same thing...

Think the new Grizzly Bear Foundation is a one off? Take a look at guys like Raincoast, who will be front and centre in the spring on the grizzly hunt. They don't ask the government to fix things for them. They raise money and establish themselves as a group that the government would rather have inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent passing in. As a result they get away with saying, unchallenged on the government subsidized public broadcaster, that science is not the appropriate measure for making wildlife management decisions. They've put in the time, effort and money.

The alternative is to say, as some do, that the government should make one law for all Canadians, listen to the guys like ranchers and hunters and trappers who know, and start taking some action. That's doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for different results.