Firewood Permit Rant - Be Careful

[Lugg]

Careful with your firewood permits, make sure to check the expiry dates.

I wish the BC government would take expired permits off their site. Why have us jump through hoops to do something legally then realize the permit is out of date that is provided on their website?

Are there other resources to get these permits? This should not be so difficult.

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/industry/natural-resource-use/natural-resource-permits/firewood-permit

Thompson Rivers District - Expired Dec 2015
https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/dka/Permits/Doc/2015%20Free%20Use%20Permit%20For%20Firewood.pdf

[tipper]

Never got one and never will.

[Surrey Boy]

What do you expect from gov't programs? Competence and efficacy are for the private sector.

[Dannybuoy]

Not sure how you found that one .... I just printed one off last week (first time) as I heard they were checking . The one I printed say valid for 1 year from date that it is filled out, so mine is Oct 1 2016 - Oct 1 2017

[bighornbob]

I too found the expired one for the Thompson region. Thought it was odd and did some more searching and found the correct one.

BHB

[gutpile]

I collected firewood for 25 years and never had a permit !

[Trapper]

$175.00 fine for not having a firewood permit.. and they are checking.. even coming out and checking logging trucks for correct paper work and timber marks on loads... I know this because I have been checked, just two weeks ago.

[bighornbob]

Also heard they were checking this week

[Lugg]

I too found the expired one for the Thompson region. Thought it was odd and did some more searching and found the correct one.

BHB

Found it.

https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/dka/permits/Doc/2016%20Free%20Use%20Permit%20For%20Firewood.pdf

youd think they'd take down old links if they'll be fining people. At least make it somewhat reliable for us.

Thanks,

[Gun Dog]

The file name contains the year -- "2016 Free Use Permit For Firewood.pdf" so you don't confuse it with "FirewoodPermit2011.pdf" or "ChristmasTreePermit2006.pdf".

It is messed up -- every forest district has it's own web page and way of doing things. In the Cariboo it's "Firewood Cutting Permit expires 2017.pdf". At least it's free.

[rocksteady]

What do you expect from gov't programs? Competence and efficacy are for the private sector.


Blow me...

[gutpile]

So if you need a permit to collect firewood to take home , what about collecting firewood to use to make a camp fire.
There really is no difference ! as long as your not cutting down trees .

[Surrey Boy]

Blow me...

Your place or mine?

[Lugg]

So if you need a permit to collect firewood to take home , what about collecting firewood to use to make a camp fire.
There really is no difference ! as long as your not cutting down trees .

i think they are one and the same. I intend to use the firewood at camp. Not to take home.

[Seeadler]

Never got one and never will.

Nobody should ever need a permit to collect firewood on Crown Land.

[barry1974w]

There's firewood permits????? Huh....

[primmed99]

Me too, what a joke permit for wood




Blow me...

[scoutlt1]

Blow me...


Please.... No pics. Regardless if it happened or not.....

[Dash]

This is a thing? I had no idea.. So, if I cut down a dead tree and bring it back to my camp site to use as firewood for the weekend, I need a permit?

[Drillbit]

I'm Canadian. That's permit enough.

[Lugg]

This is a thing? I had no idea.. So, if I cut down a dead tree and bring it back to my camp site to use as firewood for the weekend, I need a permit?

Thats my understanding. Maybe the CORE needs another section. "Using dead wood is a privilege, not a right." It all seems so silly when it's just for camp. When loading up to take home in mass quantities it makes more sense.

[Lugg]

I'm Canadian. That's permit enough.

Tell me how that holds up if you ever get a fine. Lol

[J_06]

30 years old and this is the first I've ever heard of this. Wood heat all my life...not much enforcement around here I guess, firewood permit ha!

[Stresd]

Ran across these permits online a few years ago. Printed one out for all the guys I would be hunting with as a joke. Had a lot of raised eyebrows and WTF's. That being said in the 53 years I've spent camping in the BC bush. And meeting numerous CO's in camp. I have never been asked for a silly firewood permit.

[260rem]

Burned wood for a few years in my first house and always got a permit, they are free,did get stopped and checked a few times.Talked to a Foresty officer and in the Kamloops region the problem has become that individuals are cutting wood and selling it without the proper permits and not really with the personal use cutting.

[tipper]

Who does the checks? The CO's have far more important things to do than deal with something as petty as this.

[takla1]

Be careful??Been hauling wood back with me from the bush for 30 yrs,never once stopped and never asked for a pemit.I don't cut standing trees unless their dead standing...Mostly cutting in finished cut blocks.
much to do about nothing..

takla

[rocksteady]

The requirement for a firewood permit comes from the Scaling regulations... Not the Forest Range Practices Act..

In the scaling regs it says no one is allowed to transport forest products without an authorization, be it a timber mark or a firewood permit.

I agree, It is silly, but its online and free, so why would you risk a ticket??

[Dash]

Thats my understanding. Maybe the CORE needs another section. "Using dead wood is a privilege, not a right." It all seems so silly when it's just for camp. When loading up to take home in mass quantities it makes more sense.

That would make sense. Well thanks for starting this thread, I had no idea!

[takla1]

The requirement for a firewood permit comes from the Scaling regulations... Not the Forest Range Practices Act..

In the scaling regs it says no one is allowed to transport forest products without an authorization, be it a timber mark or a firewood permit.

I agree, It is silly, but its online and free, so why would you risk a ticket??

Silly indeed,Why would I risk a ticket,some like to live dangerously I suppose..besides the Gov gets enough of my after TAXED money.This is in no way a recommendation for others,

takla

[Salty]

I really don't think they're going to worry about a couple nights of firewood in your truck for camp. But if you've got a full load on they'll be looking for the permit. Still, dead easy to get a permit on line if one wants.


Silly indeed,Why would I risk a ticket,some like to live dangerously I suppose..besides the Gov gets enough of my after TAXED money.This is in no way a recommendation for others,

takla

The only way the government is getting any of your money for firewood is if you get a ticket for not having a permit. The permit is free on line.

[takla1]

quote;The only way the government is getting any of your money for firewood is if you get a ticket for not having a permit. The permit is free on line.

Not true,this gov entity is funded by tax payer money,costs of administration and personal,never mind any monitoring and policeing costs.

starve the beast ,they've taken their share from me.

takla

[2stroked]

In Quesnel you have to go into the Forestry office and sign your life away to get a 6 month permit. They say people have been abusing the permits. That's a enforcement issue, same as firearm laws. Innocent people pay for abusers. Axxholes.

[Salty]

quote;The only way the government is getting any of your money for firewood is if you get a ticket for not having a permit. The permit is free on line.

Not true,this gov entity is funded by tax payer money,costs of administration and personal,never mind any monitoring and policeing costs.

starve the beast ,they've taken their share from me.

takla

Starve them by not getting a free permit? OK....

[takla1]

If people didn't use the service it would be cut,Saveing money for things that matter,ie healthcare funding,schools,roads/bridges ect ect.It may augueably be a small Gov expenditure , but run away gov debt is a burden on us all.
my opinion

takla

[Iron Glove]

Starve them by not getting a free permit? OK....

Go figure, eh ??
I'd imagine that having a free permit actually reduces the expense to CO's, Forestry, whoever as they don't have to go through the hassle of ticketing, charging, whatever they do. Some could argue that the "free permit" system is in fact then a money saver.
Every year they print a "cut and save" permit in the Princeton Newspaper for those that feel the need.
Me, I go out behind our place and harvest the dead fall bug pine.
Forestry wants that stuff removed, the town wants it removed because it's a serious fire hazard.
Have never, ever been asked to produce the permit.
Now, if I walked out back of our Hope Home and fired up the Stihl I would expect to be in big trouble pretty quick. :razz:

[Salty]

"the service" is based on stumpage being paid on millions of metres of wood harvested from our forests to fund our police, hospitals, schools, roads et al. Your logic is illogical unless you think all logging trucks should poach wood too? Carry on though..

[Salty]

Now, if I walked out back of our Hope Home and fired up the Stihl I would expect to be in big trouble pretty quick. :razz:

I'm still trying to lay low and figure out the place a bit but the other day without thinking I flashed up the Husqy 372 to cut some blackberries and buck up some old long RR ties buried within and then thought about what I was doing. Shut the saw off and a quick glance around didn't reveal any horrified neighbours or red and blue lights so that was good. Hey, they call it the chainsaw capital don't they? I might even get a permit one of these days :mrgreen:

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Jeezuss. Anything for a chance to rant around here! Do you think you'd really get charged if you downloaded the expired form and then were pulled over? You would merely at that point inform the C&E officer that only expired forms are available through their website. An officer would get lamb-basted by their superior if they issued a ticket that was so blatantly unsupportable in court.

I agree that on the surface, the need for a permits seem extraordinarily bureaucratic. Something to consider, however, is that unnecessary bureaucracy costs the government money, and given the perpetual lack of funding, you can bet that the program has been evaluated from a cost/benefit perspective. If it's still around, it's because there's probably a valid reason for it to be.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Burned wood for a few years in my first house and always got a permit, they are free,did get stopped and checked a few times.Talked to a Foresty officer and in the Kamloops region the problem has become that individuals are cutting wood and selling it without the proper permits and not really with the personal use cutting.

All kinds are cutting and selling right now. Doubt they have permits. I have never obtained one, and have run into Forestry while doing the cutting. Never ever checked. For the most part their main concern is that if falling dead trees that you don't plug up any ditches with debris. The 16" maximum is also not of concern. If anything, in a lot of cases we are doing a favour. Any dead tree that could reach a road if it fell is a danger tree that the Companies are supposed to take care of.

[Seeadler]

So we are to believe that the Royal Proclamation of 1763 is still valid but not the Forest Charter of 1217?

I refuse to get a permit.

[sawmill]

Print one off the computer machine. Free and saves a big shit hassle. I put up 6 cord a year, no troubles. Never been checked either but............good to have papaerwork. I see a lot of guys dropping green healthy trees,maybe they are stupid or it`s for next year?

[Ubertuber]

Refusing to get a free permit, now that's funny.

[Seeadler]

Refusing to get a free permit, now that's funny.

Giving up your rights, now that's funny.

[AgSilver]

So we are to believe that the Royal Proclamation of 1763 is still valid but not the Forest Charter of 1217?

I refuse to get a permit.

Some time spent learning about laws and legal systems may benefit you. There are laws governing forest use. Gotta follow 'em the same way you get tags to shoot animals. Assuming you do, of course.

Especially when referencing a law that had no bearing on this territory (whereas the RP1763 deals specifically with this territory).

[Seeadler]

Some time spent learning about laws and legal systems may benefit you. There are laws governing forest use. Gotta follow 'em the same way you get tags to shoot animals. Assuming you do, of course.

Especially when referencing a law that had no bearing on this territory (whereas the RP1763 deals specifically with this territory).

Actually the Supreme Court could not decide if the 1763 Proclamation applied to BC or not. So what chance do you an I have.

[Iron Glove]

Actually the Supreme Court could not decide if the 1763 Proclamation applied to BC or not. So what chance do you an I have.

But the Royal Proclamation actually applied to Canada, unlikely that one from 1217 acknowledged Canada ??

[squamishhunter]

You live in Canada. Do not pay for wood.

[Mauser98]

The requirement for a firewood permit comes from the Scaling regulations... Not the Forest Range Practices Act..

In the scaling regs it says no one is allowed to transport forest products without an authorization, be it a timber mark or a firewood permit.

I agree, It is silly, but its online and free, so why would you risk a ticket??

With respect, the requirement for a permit comes from section 48 of the Forest Act. I apologize for the length of the quote below but editing on an iPad sometimes sucks.

48 (1) A free use permit must be entered into only with
(a) an occupier of land who requires Crown timber for developing the land for agricultural purposes,
(a.1) a person who requires a Christmas tree for their personal use and not for sale to others,
(b) a person who requires firewood for their personal domestic purposes and not for sale to others,
(c) a board of education that requires firewood for school purposes,
(d) a person who requires Crown timber for the purpose of scientific investigation,
(e) an owner of a Crown grant of a mineral claim, authorizing the use of Crown timber on land described in the grant in a mining operation conducted on that land,
(f) a holder of a coal licence issued under the Coal Act (http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/04015_01), or a holder of a mineral title under the Mineral Tenure Act (http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96292_01)not in production authorizing the holder to cut timber,
(g) a person who
(i) requires Crown timber for a traditional and cultural activity, within the meaning prescribed for the phrase "traditional and cultural activity", and
(ii) is not selling the timber to others, and
(h) a treaty first nation that has entered into an agreement with British Columbia, in accordance with its final agreement, for the harvesting of types of timber specified in the final agreement.
(2) Despite subsection (1), a free use permit must not be entered into with an applicant described in subsection (1) (a) to (f) and (h) if, on land the applicant owns or occupies, there is sufficient timber that is reasonably accessible for the purpose specified in the application.
(3) If a person who requires Crown timber under subsection (1) (g) wishes to harvest more than 50 m3 under the free use permit, the person must
(a) apply to a person designated by the minister, and
(b) include in the application the information required by the minister.
(4) Subsection (2) does not apply in relation to a treaty first nation referred to in subsection (1) (h) to the extent its application would be inconsistent with the final agreement or the agreement referred to in subsection (1) (h).

Issuance and content of free use permit49 (1) The minister may enter into a free use permit with a person or treaty first nation qualified under section 48.
(2) A free use permit
(a) must be for a term not exceeding
(i) 1 year, if the permit is entered into with an applicant described in section 48 (1), other than an applicant described in paragraph (e) or (f) of that section, and
(ii) 5 years, if the permit is entered into with an applicant described in section 48 (1) (e) or (f),
(b) must give to its holder the right to harvest Crown timber from an area of land for the purposes specified in it,(c) subject to subsection (2.1), must be limited to a volume not exceeding 50 m3,
(d) despite Part 4, Division 4, may be suspended or cancelled, or both, without notice by the minister if its holder fails to comply with its terms and conditions, this Act or the regulations,
(e) must not require its holder to pay stumpage for the timber cut, or to pay rent, and
(f) may contain terms and conditions, consistent with this Act, the Forest and Range Practices Act (http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/02069_01), the Wildfire Act (http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/04031_01)and any regulations or standards made under those Acts, determined by the minister.
(2.1) The minister, in prescribed circumstances, may enter into a free use permit authorized under section 48 (1) (g) for a volume exceeding 50 m3.
(2.2) Despite subsection (2), a free use permit entered into with a treaty first nation
(a) must be for a term not exceeding 5 years,
(b) must give the treaty first nation the right to harvest
(i) the type of timber specified in the final agreement from an area of Crown land for the purposes specified in that final agreement, and
(ii) the amount of timber specified in the agreement referred to in section 48 (1) (h) for each year of the term,
(c) may contain terms and conditions, consistent with
(i) this Act, the Forest and Range Practices Act (http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/02069_01), the Wildfire Act (http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/04031_01)and any regulations or standards made under those Acts,
(ii) the final agreement of the treaty first nation, and
(iii) the agreement referred to in section 48 (1) (h),
determined by the minister, and
(d) is subject to subsection (2) (d) and (e).
(3) The person or treaty first nation
(a) in respect of which a decision is made under subsection (2) or (2.2) (d), or
(b) in respect of which a decision is made under subsection (2) or (2.2) (d) relating to the free use permit to which the person or treaty first nation is a party,
may require a review of the decision by a person authorized by the minister and the decision of the authorized person is final and binding.
(4) Only sections 143 (3) and (4), 144 and 145 apply to a review under subsection

[bighornbob]

Buddy received a 175$ fine about ten years ago for not having a fire extiusher in his truck with a full load of wood in the back. It was a real dry hot year and we got stopped in a road check. Cope were fine with the guns, CO's fine with the lisences and tags, forestry guy came over and asked for the permit and where the shovel and extinguisher were ( what you needed in the penticton district).

Bhb

[Lugg]

Buddy received a 175$ fine about ten years ago for not having a fire extiusher in his truck with a full load of wood in the back. It was a real dry hot year and we got stopped in a road check. Cope were fine with the guns, CO's fine with the lisences and tags, forestry guy came over and asked for the permit and where the shovel and extinguisher were ( what you needed in the penticton district).

Bhb

I actually meant to mention the fire extinguisher thing. I always carry one now in addition to the shovel I keep with us. Some regions require a set amount of water and a shovel / or a fire extinguisher, some may require both.

So many ways to get fined if you don't do your research! I bet they could get all of us on something if they really wanted to.

[Xbow]

Hummm....
Not free where I am. They want $25 per truck load!!!!

I called the number that was posted on the logging road where i live after reading this thread. Thought I would get myself one of those free permits. I actually had to call back a second time to make sure i heard the recording right.

I think i will just keep doing what i have been doing for the last 15 years and not bother with a permit.
Just when you think your on the strait and narrow you find out your a firewood thief!!!

[Squamch]

Hummm....
Not free where I am. They want $25 per truck load!!!!

I called the number that was posted on the logging road where i live after reading this thread. Thought I would get myself one of those free permits. I actually had to call back a second time to make sure i heard the recording right.

I think i will just keep doing what i have been doing for the last 15 years and not bother with a permit.
Just when you think your on the strait and narrow you find out your a firewood thief!!!


If thats for the nanaimo area it was $25/day permit for firewood, all the truck loads you wanted. That's privately owned timber though so they can charge what they want.

[Linksman313]

On the topic of firewood, as I'm sure you have all seen in your hunting travels, why are we not allowed to harvest what appears to be millions of board feet of timber and pecker poles left laying to rot on logging landings and cutblocks that are umpteen years old? The amount of wood left around most of the logging cuts I have hiked through and around would heat my house, suite, and barn for at least a dozen years or so. I heard of fellows getting in trouble pulling apart burn piles to find get wood for heat and such. Why is this?

[Xbow]

No its Courtenay, Campbell river area and its $25 a truck load... Timber waste lands

[Xenomorph]

No its Courtenay, Campbell river area and its $25 a truck load... Timber waste lands

Money for public budget, I know, being an arse, but ever since this discussion popped off I've learnt lot. I've already been carrying extinguisher (big 10lb) in the truck anyways, I'll add a shovel, and when I go on extended trips I have one of those blue 5gal water cans.

Never had an issue Sea to Sky, been collecting wood for the fireplace every time I was fishing, doing a reconnaissance trip.

[Vladimir Poutine]

On the topic of firewood, as I'm sure you have all seen in your hunting travels, why are we not allowed to harvest what appears to be millions of board feet of timber and pecker poles left laying to rot on logging landings and cutblocks that are umpteen years old? The amount of wood left around most of the logging cuts I have hiked through and around would heat my house, suite, and barn for at least a dozen years or so. I heard of fellows getting in trouble pulling apart burn piles to find get wood for heat and such. Why is this?

The debris and waste being thrown into the burn piles has gotten worse since they went to the pre measured loads. You can have a piece that is 2 feet short of the short load at 14 feet and into the waste pile it goes. I could show piles that are the size of a football field. There is an area where there are now more than 30 decks of pine beetle wood that was left because of market conditions. Now it rots. In our area now, if there's a deck left and the machinery has been pulled out it's have at it.

[stan]

The free permit is kinda like the one time orv registration fee,gives em a system to levy fines and /or collect tax revenue as in the quad regi bullshit. There is no way to abide by all the rules these days.too bad but it's just beginning.