Hunting with big bore air rifle, legal or illegal?

[bushpilotmexico]

Can't seem to find any info on the legality of hunting with a .45 caliber air rifle. It can push a 250 grain bullet at 800 fps.

[moosecaller]

I believe the regulations say a center fire cartridge for big game. Or a bow and arrow with some weight/cutting dimension guidelines. The air rifle would not be considered either, despite the projectile weight and velocity.

[twoSevenO]

What kind of air rifle is this? I've never heard of a .45 cal air rifle, only .177 and .22.
If its over 500fps it requires a PAL and qualifies as a "firearm". Having said that, i see no problem why you couldn't hunt small game with it like you could with a rimfire. Note that it is not a centerfire firearm, so deer and anything else is off limits.

[Drillbit]

^My pelet gun when I was a kid was a .20cal Sheridan. It was awesome.


As for the .45cal ones, I know Shockey uses them sometimes on his shows, not sure about in Canada or not though.

Good question

[ruger#1]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?131223-quot-PNEU-quot-50cal-I-want-one (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?131223-quot-PNEU-quot-50cal-I-want-one)

[BCHunterTV]

the response i got when in inquiring to use my 1500 fps pellet gun for bobcats,



The possession of a pellet/bb/paintball gun (firearm) or slingshot (other weapon) while meeting the definition above is considered hunting and can only be done in compliance with hunting regulations in the province. There are currently no prohibitions on the use of air guns to hunt upland game birds/small game in British Columbia. There are no restrictions on velocity/ammunition requirements. However, note that it is an offence to hunt with a with a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand or that has a barrel less than 305 mm in length.
While it is not prohibited to hunt with an air gun, please be advised that it is an offence to injure wildlife and fail to make every reasonable effort to retrieve the wildlife and kill it. Considering the limited killing ability and range of air guns it is possible that possession of only an air gun to kill wounded wildlife would be inadequate to meet the standards of “every reasonable effort” to retrieve and kill a wounded animal. It is possible that it would be an offence to wound game with an air gun and not be able to kill the wounded animal and retrieve the meat. Also note that it is an offence to hunt with a firearm that is designed to be shot with one hand (i.e. a hand gun), regardless of the caliber.
Ethics play a large role in the hunter’s decision to hunt with a pellet gun. The hunter should consider whether the method being used is an effective and humane way to harvest an animal, and that the potential for wounding loss or unnecessary suffering is minimized. Hunting big game with an air gun is not recommended, besides the fact that it could be considered an offence if the hunter is unable to track and kill the wounded animal with that weapon, most air guns do not have the power to ethically and humanely kill an animal. It is highly recommended that if you are hunting with an air rifle that you also carry a rim fire or center fire rifle in the case that a wounded animal needs to be tracked and killed.

[bushpilotmexico]

What kind of air rifle is this? I've never heard of a .45 cal air rifle, only .177 and .22.
If its over 500fps it requires a PAL and qualifies as a "firearm". Having said that, i see no problem why you couldn't hunt small game with it like you could with a rimfire. Note that it is not a centerfire firearm, so deer and anything else is off limits.

Airforce Texan....Google it for YouTube videos.

[OoDark]

Trying to currently get a better answer from BC cos.

Hi,


I Would like a better explanation, the pages 16 - 17 only read like a guide line

The bolts weigh 450gr weight for crossbow bolt met
Bolts use proper sized broad heads. Blade sizes met
and you muzzle load the bolt.
You need a PAL to buy one. So power requirements met


Next question will be where is the list would this fit on the list as to weapon type when using bolts.


Thanks,


Sent from my iPad


On Feb 15, 2018, at 4:54 PM, FrontCounter BC FLNR:EX <FrontCounterBC@gov.bc.ca> wrote:


Hi Rob,

Thank you for your email.

Please review pages 16 & 17 of the Hunting & Trapping Regulations Synopsis (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/sports-culture/recreation/fishing-hunting/hunting/regulations-synopsis) for the legal hunting methods in BC.

It is not legal to hunt with anything other than a shotgun or bow in shotgun only or bow only areas and open seasons.

Please let us know if you have any further questions after review.

Regards,



<image001.jpg>

Christine Sehn
Natural Resource Specialist
FrontCounter BC
Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations & Rural Development
Tel: 1-877-855-3222 (tel:1-877-855-3222)

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Good day,

I am currently wondering if it’s legal to use a 50cal air rifle for deer in bc.
And is it legal to shoot the 50 cal bolts that you can buy for deer? Would this be legal in shotgun and bow zones?

Thanks for your help

[Gateholio]

Answer to what?

[OoDark]

See above comment

[Gateholio]

It wouldn't be legal in bow season or in a shotgun zone.

Assuming it's one of the big game rated air guns, then it would be legal in regular rifle seasons.

[OoDark]

I was reaching with the bow shotty zone. But if you don’t try.... lol

[Gateholio]

it's not a bow, it's considered a firearm

It's not using multiple shot projectiles.

[OoDark]

But it’s using a bolt. Just like a bow but with more kenettic energy.

[Gateholio]

It does not fall under the definition of bow, it falls under the definition of a firearm.

[OoDark]

Like I said, you can only ask. It’s way cheeper then the forgiveness side of this coin toss.

[scoutlt1]

Wtf? I'm confused....

[OoDark]

About what? You can shoot 450 grain bolts out of a 50cal air gun. So the questions were asked is it legal and where can I use it if it is legal. Cross bows can shoot Long distance with effectiveness on hitting targets see the ravin crossbow videos. Never ever would I shoot a bow that far at an animal.

[shuswapbear]

"The AirForce Texan delivers a . 45 caliber lead bullet at speeds up to 1,000 fps and can obtain over 500 ft-lbs of energy." Now that being said/quoted i would imagine this would be more than capable of taking a deer or maybe use this for predator hunt.

[Yuritau]

An air rifle is neither centerfire nor rimfire, nor is there any listing for air rifles under legal hunting methods on page 16. Seems to me that an air rifle is not a legal hunting method in BC.

[shuswapbear]

Yet, as probably when regulations were originally written up air rifles were not getting over 1000' per second with 350 grain bullets with 500+ft lbs energy.

[saskbooknut]

Explicitly prohibited in the Saskatchewan game regulations.

[E.B.]

Can't seem to find any info on the legality of hunting with a .45 caliber air rifle. It can push a 250 grain bullet at 800 fps.
Probably not legal for big game as a 410 slug is not legal for big game in BC. The 410 can shoot a 110gr slug at almost 1800 fps and is not considered powerful enough in BC for big game but you can shoot a moose with a 222 , go figure. Other provinces vary on the 410 and on big bore airguns. They should both be allowed imo.

[KodiakHntr]

Big bore air rifles are classified as firearms as they are over 500fps and whatever the energy requirement is. Currently legal to hunt with.

[Ltbullken]

Check pg 16-17 of the regs. I do not believe any air rifle is considered legal for hunting as the legal hunting methods only include rimfire, centerfire, shotgun or bow/crossbow.

[Yuritau]

Big bore air rifles are classified as firearms as they are over 500fps and whatever the energy requirement is. Currently legal to hunt with.

Whether they are classed as firearms or not isn't the issue. The issue is whether or not the regs (pg 16-17) say they are legal to hunt game with. And below is the answer:


Check pg 16-17 of the regs. I do not believe any air rifle is considered legal for hunting as the legal hunting methods only include rimfire, centerfire, shotgun or bow/crossbow.

The regs list what methods are legal to hunt with for each game species (or category of game). By extension, if it's not listed, it's not a legal hunting method.

[Walking Buffalo]

Explain to me why there is a current proposal to make Air guns illegal for hunting big game if they are already illegal?

What is a "shotgun"? Does BC even define one?
There is no Federal definition....

Giordani air rifle.... the gun that actually won the west.

You need to put aside relying on the Hunting synopsis when looking for legal answers.
Heck, it even states on page 2 that it is NOT a legal document.

[Walking Buffalo]

So I took two minutes to google the BC hunting regs, NOT the synopsis.
https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/regu/bc-reg-190-84/latest/bc-reg-190-84.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAGd2VhcG9uAAAAAAE&resultIndex=8&offset=0 (https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/regu/bc-reg-190-84/latest/bc-reg-190-84.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAGd2VhcG9uAAAAAAE&resultIndex=8&offset=0)

Air guns are currently legal for hunting big game.

Can't find a definition of a "shotgun".
Not surprising, Alberta has this same situation. Shotgun seasons without a legal definition of a shotgun...
Will make an interesting court case if ever enforced and tried.






Division 7 — Hunting Methods

Offence — weapons



17 (1)
A person commits an offence where the person hunts
(a)
with a rifle using
(i)
a full metal jacketed non-expanding bullet, or
(ii)
a tracer, incendiary, or explosive bullet,
(b)
big game, other than lynx, bobcat or wolverine, with a rifle using a rimfire cartridge,
(c)
with a shotgun using a tracer or incendiary shot shell,
(d)
mountain sheep, mountain goat, elk, moose, caribou, bison or grizzly bear with a shotgun,
(e)
deer, black bear, cougar, coyote, lynx, bobcat, wolverine or wolf with a shotgun
(i)
less than 20 gauge, or
(ii)
using a shot shell loaded with shot smaller than the shot size 1 Buck,
(f)
game birds, other than turkey, grouse and ptarmigan, with a rifle,
(g)
small game, game birds, lynx, bobcat, wolverine, mule (black-tailed) deer, white-tailed deer or fallow deer with a crossbow (except a compound crossbow) having a pull of less than 55 kg,
(h)
big game, other than deer, lynx, bobcat or wolverine with a crossbow (except a compound crossbow)
(i)
having a pull of less than 68 kg, or
(ii)
having a bolt with a broadhead less than 2.22 cm at the widest point,
(i)
with a compound crossbow having a pull of less than 45 kg at full draw,
(j)
with a crossbow having a bolt weighing less than 16.2 g,
(k)
with a bow having a pull of less than 18 kg within the archer's draw length,
(l)
big game with a bow using an arrow with a broadhead less than 2.2 cm at the widest point,
(m)
bear
(i)
by placing bait, or
(ii)
by using a dead animal or part of it as bait,
(n)
migratory game birds by using a power boat, unless the boat is beached, resting at anchor or fastened within or tied immediately alongside of a fixed hunting blind,
(o)
migratory game birds using
(i)
a rifle or shotgun loaded with a single projectile,
(ii)
any weapon other than a bow and arrow or a shotgun not larger than number 10 gauge, or
(iii)
more than one shotgun unless each shotgun in excess of one is disassembled or unloaded and encased,
(p)
waterfowl, coot or snipe while using shot other than non-toxic shot,
(q)
turkey with a rifle using a centrefire cartridge,
(r)
bison with a weapon other than
(i)
a centrefire rifle and ammunition other than ammunition constructed with a 175 grain or larger bullet which retains 2 712 joules (2 000 foot pounds) or more energy at 100 metres, or
(ii)
a bow having a pull greater than 22.6 kg within the archer's draw length, an arrow greater than 26 grams in weight and a broadhead greater than 8.1 grams in weight and 2.2 cm in width at its widest point, or
(s)
with a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand or that has a barrel less than 305 mm in length.
(1.1)
An offence under subsection (1) (m) of this section is prescribed as an offence for the purposes of section 84 (1) (https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/stat/rsbc-1996-c-488/latest/rsbc-1996-c-488.html#sec84subsec1_smooth) (b) (ii) of the Act (https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/stat/rsbc-1996-c-488/latest/rsbc-1996-c-488.html).
(2)
A person who possesses shot, other than non-toxic shot, for the purpose of hunting waterfowl, coot or snipe, commits an offence.
(3)
A person who hunts big game with a shotgun loaded with single-projectile ammunition is exempt from section 26 (1) (https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/stat/rsbc-1996-c-488/latest/rsbc-1996-c-488.html#sec26subsec1_smooth) (h) of the Act (https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/stat/rsbc-1996-c-488/latest/rsbc-1996-c-488.html).

[Gateholio]

Since we are posting what is said in the Synopsis, don't forget that one of the first things in the synopsis says THIS IS NOT THE LAW and refers you to the Wildlife Act for the real law.

If anyone can point out where in the BC Wildlife Act it states that airguns are not legal hunting weapons, please do so.

I can save you some time, you won't find it.

Page 16 is more about pointing out what is illegal to hunt with that providing a comprehensive list of all legal hunting weaponry.

[Yuritau]

Fair enough point that the synopsis isn't the full regs. That's literally what the word synopsis means, heh.

A definition of shot exists on page 5 of the synopsis, however, which I suspect would be the accepted definition, if it ever came up in BC court.


Shot means a cartridge manufactured so
that it contains 8 or more roughly spherical
projectiles.

[browningboy]

800 lbs of energy isn’t that much especially out of an air rifle, that’s probably measured at the muzzle and quickly looses it energy afterwards, might give a deer a bee sting at 60 yards

[KodiakHntr]

The regs list what methods are legal to hunt with for each game species (or category of game). By extension, if it's not listed, it's not a legal hunting method.

No, the synopsis gives examples of what is legal to hunt with, and list specific things that are ILLEGAL to hunt with, ie big game with a rimfire.

The way the Wildlife Act works, if it is not specifically listed as illegal to hunt with, it is legal. An example would be spears. Spears are not specifically listed as illegal to hunt with (yet), so by extension they are legal
to hunt with. That is how the legislation works. The list of things that are illegal to use is a much shorter list than trying to put down everything that is legal.

[KodiakHntr]

800 lbs of energy isn’t that much especially out of an air rifle, that’s probably measured at the muzzle and quickly looses it energy afterwards, might give a deer a bee sting at 60 yards


Careful....

A 265gr pellet at 1000fps or 405gr pellet at 750fps will be close to the ballistics of many common pistol cartridges. There is likely thousands of deer killed every year in the US with those cartridges. Not to mention the dangerous game that has been killed around the world over the years. Just because a projectile uses powder instead of compressed air for propulsion doesn’t make it any more lethal on the receiving end.

One thing is absolutely certain, a 265gr chunk of soft lead traveling at 800+fps is definitely not going to bounce off a deer at 60 yards. A .457 caliber hole bored through a deers lungs is going to result in a dead deer in very short order.

[E.B.]

800 lbs of energy isn’t that much especially out of an air rifle, that’s probably measured at the muzzle and quickly looses it energy afterwards, might give a deer a bee sting at 60 yards
800 fp of energy out of an airgun is the same as 800 fp out of a regular firearm. A 410 slug has about that much and they will shoot through a deer where they are allowed for hunting, so what are you talking about?

[Walking Buffalo]

Fair enough point that the synopsis isn't the full regs. That's literally what the word synopsis means, heh.

A definition of shot exists on page 5 of the synopsis, however, which I suspect would be the accepted definition, if it ever came up in BC court.

So, two to seven projectiles in one cartridge is not "Shot"....
Neither is a single projectile.

What is the Canadian or BC legal definition of a "Shotgun"?

Is a shotgun only a shotgun when using "shot"?

[Ltbullken]

Definition of firearm from the Synopsis (pg. 3)...

Firearm - includes a device that propels a projectile by means of an explosion, compressed gas or spring and includes a rifle, shotgun, handgun, pellet gun, "BB" gun or spring gun but does not include a bow.

[browningboy]

Careful....

A 265gr pellet at 1000fps or 405gr pellet at 750fps will be close to the ballistics of many common pistol cartridges. There is likely thousands of deer killed every year in the US with those cartridges. Not to mention the dangerous game that has been killed around the world over the years. Just because a projectile uses powder instead of compressed air for propulsion doesn’t make it any more lethal on the receiving end.

One thing is absolutely certain, a 265gr chunk of soft lead traveling at 800+fps is definitely not going to bounce off a deer at 60 yards. A .457 caliber hole bored through a deers lungs is going to result in a dead deer in very short order.

Just saying if that's the muzzle velocity only, at 60 yards it diminish greatly and be a bee sting to a deer. I have a 1200 ft per second 22 air pistol and on a longer shot I can see the dro, in which equates to velocity loss which equals less impact. It's really just physics.

[browningboy]

800 fp of energy out of an airgun is the same as 800 fp out of a regular firearm. A 410 slug has about that much and they will shoot through a deer where they are allowed for hunting, so what are you talking about?

Are you saying that the measured velocity at the muzzle wouldn't diminish at 60 yards on an air gun? The muzzle velocity would damage a deer but at 60 yards I have my reservations.

[Yuritau]

Are you saying that the measured velocity at the muzzle wouldn't diminish at 60 yards on an air gun? The muzzle velocity would damage a deer but at 60 yards I have my reservations.

I think he's saying a foot pound is a foot pound, no matter what flavor of propellent created it. Whether you consider it an enthical kill or not, people have killed deer with a lot less than 800 foot pounds before.

[Gateholio]

There are all sorts of air rifles out there....

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/f8/69/a6f8692a7d080da6597937872fd8e9a9.jpg

http://prepare-and-protect.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/DSCN3554a.jpg

http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/index.1.jpg

[KodiakHntr]

Just saying if that's the muzzle velocity only, at 60 yards it diminish greatly and be a bee sting to a deer. I have a 1200 ft per second 22 air pistol and on a longer shot I can see the dro, in which equates to velocity loss which equals less impact. It's really just physics.

Like I said, be careful, your knowledge is showing....

But please tell me more about your 22 cal 1200fps air pistol, and perhaps explain how an 18gr pellet out of an air pistol correlates to the ballistics of a 400gr pellet at 800 fps, or even a 265gr at 1000 fps, and how that would amount to a “bee sting at 60 yards”.

[browningboy]

Like I said, be careful, your knowledge is showing....

But please tell me more about your 22 cal 1200fps air pistol, and perhaps explain how an 18gr pellet out of an air pistol correlates to the ballistics of a 400gr pellet at 800 fps, or even a 265gr at 1000 fps, and how that would amount to a “bee sting at 60 yards”.



holy fuq guys, just my opinion and what I’ve seen, possibly we are crossed in communication?
how about this, look at any brand new pack of bullets, look at the velocities at the back, is the muzzle velocity the same as the velocity at 100 yards?

[Walking Buffalo]

Definition of firearm from the Synopsis (pg. 3)...

Firearm - includes a device that propels a projectile by means of an explosion, compressed gas or spring and includes a rifle, shotgun, handgun, pellet gun, "BB" gun or spring gun but does not include a bow.

Ok.

What is the legal definition of a Shotgun?

This is a serious question.
I've asked around here in Alberta regarding our Ab. regulations.
Alberta gov can't provide an answer, neither can the firearm lawyers I posed the question to.

I suspect the same may be true for BC.

[boxhitch]

Why is that a serious question?
There is a dictionary definition
and in BC hunting regs there is mention of 'firearms using shot only' or 'shot only area'

[Walking Buffalo]

Why is that a serious question?
There is a dictionary definition
and in BC hunting regs there is mention of 'firearms using shot only' or 'shot only area'

It's wintertime and fireside chat time, so please allow for some banter.
The seriousness of the question pertaining to BC depends on the answer to this question.

Does BC have any Shotgun only big game seasons or areas where single projectile ammunition is allowed?

If not, then the original question is less "serious", even though I am still serious about requesting an answer to it.

FYI, the US has a federal legal definition of a shotgun, derived from old dictionary sources.
A shotgun is a smoothbore, firing shot. Technically, any rifled "shotgun" is not a shotgun.
It appears to be that Canada does not have a legal definition of a shotgun.
A court could possibly defer to the US definition, or not.

This situation does come into play in Alberta where we have some Shotgun seasons, without a legal definition of a shotgun.
The province states that rifled barrels are ok on a shotgun, single projectiles are allowed, the caliber limitations are greater than .410 up to 10 gauge (.770).
Single shot, pump, bolt, auto, all good. Cartridge design undescribed, brass cases are fine in a shotgun.

So, this technically this could include firearms such as the 416 Rigby, .50 Beowulf, 700 Nitro Express.
In Alberta, these appear to be legal "shotguns" in our shotgun only seasons....

No Alberta court has dealt with this matter, so no legal answer is available.

[boxhitch]

Banter away
BC likely realized the grey-area so were careful about the wording when it comes to shot or single projectile and such
Is a 'slug' a single 'shot' ? hmmm

[Yuritau]

Banter away
BC likely realized the grey-area so were careful about the wording when it comes to shot or single projectile and such
Is a 'slug' a single 'shot' ? hmmm

According to the synopsis (cause it's not mentioned in the regs themselves), anything less than 8 projectiles in the cartridge isn't "shot".