Is there anyone here really, really fluent on BDC reticle?

[nolimits]

I would like to get in depth on this BDC reticle. I am getting my hands on, on the Nikon Spot On app. I am in the process of trying to understand it all. Is there really that much difference between ballistics of different bullets in the same weight? Is there that much difference between moving from one magnification to another? What are the tips to stay steady? Is there a formula you guys use or you always have to recalculate?

[835]

Some,, probably most bdc's are built to work on max magnification. But some also will be used at say 9 power for a 270 and 10 power for a 300win. Just read the box and remember it. Then go to the range and shoot it to confirm the data. Zero at 200 then shoot it at 300 and 400 etc.

There is a huge difference in bullets but that depends on how deep into the rabbit hole you want to go.

[j270wsm]

I don't know a ton about them but I have a leupold vx3 b&c and a zeiss rapid z 800. The leupold is on my 270wsm( hand loaded 140 gamekings ) and works well, point of impact is pretty close for the cross hairs. The rapid z 800 is on my 300 rum( handloaded 208 amax) and the zeiss online ballistic calculator tells me to shoot a different bullet. Velocity my bullet is going doesn't work with the cross hairs in the scope. My velocity and bc make my 800yd crosshair good for somewhere around 820m. I also have to be on 14x for everything to be close, if I'm on 11x my 800yd cross hair is good for 953m

I should have bought a normal scope, have a custom turret made and learn how to calculate moa. Would have been less guess work.

[Pioneerman]

There is a difference of bullet ballistics of the same weight because of design and construction

[Quince]

All projectiles have a ballistic coefficient, same size projectiles(ex .30 cal 165gr)can have different bc's. Polymer tipped(amax)/hpbt fly a better than soft points. Realistically for hunting its not a huge difference as most people arent shooting past 200m. Biggest thing is to find out what your rifle likes to shoot and get good groups. Had some handloads that shot sub moa(1"groups or less @ 100m) in my tikka and shot 3"+groups in my buddy's winchester 100.....
Vortex has an easy long range ballistics calculator and there are also lots of free apps as well. Should get you going in right direction for using your bdc

[boxhitch]

Its worthwhile looking at some details before deciding on a BDC scope

I bought a new Nikon also, and just looking into the Spot-on calculator.
The video tutorial is simplistic, but shows the basics
The BDC Field Chart is a ready reference for the actual circles, it is also good to look at the "expand bdc circle" picture to be aware of what the top and bottom of each circle represent.

Pick a scope and a cartridge and take a look at the chart, and it is soon clear that the BDC feature won't be used in about 90 or maybe 99 % of situations, depending on the shooter.

For example 30-06 w/ 165 gr @2800 fps.
even at 16X with a 200 yd zero, the first circle value is 274 yds, then the second is 359 yds, then there is four more aim points to use for longer distances.

The actual bullet drop between 200 and 274 is about 7" , drop at 359 is about 15". Knowing this fact alone can keep you in the kill zone with a basic crosshair, and a fudge holdover.

Ballistics, like reloading, can be as complex or as simple as the user wants. Actual values for things look a whole lot less-different when you drop a decimal point or two from the figure.

that depends on how deep into the rabbit hole you want to goegzackery

[.264winmag]

Get a couple hundred rounds, go to the range and experiment with different magnifications, distances, target size and different bullets. When you're tired of chasing the bull go buy an moa target turret scope:p

[downsouth204]

Here's the link for the ballistic calculator on Vortex USA's website. If you go to their home page instead of the link below, just click on the little orange bullet shaped LRBC icon on the top right of the page.

http://apps.vortexoptics.com/lrbc/

It's easy enough to use once you go through it a couple times.
Just select your hunting location, it'll look up the current weather for you, pick your factory load or add your ballistic data. You'll see once you've done that, you can tweak settings like the range you're sighting in at, and the scope height off your barrel, (center line of your barrel to center line of your scope).
It's going to default to an MOA drop chart but you can change it to inches in the "drop" section on the right of the page, and print yourself off a range card.
Also on the right side of the page in the orange section is a button called "reticle". Click that and then again on the right, in "scope" select your Vortex scope of choice and its going to generate a BDC reticle yardage drop chart for the scope and magnification chosen. It's usually going to default to the scopes maximum magnification but you can easily see the changes magnification makes by moving the magnification slider.
You can even print off a copy, pretty slick :)
When you go to the range to sight in, you can now verify the yardage drops and you're good to go.

[nolimits]

Well, it seems here we go again. Most of the knowledge I have is based on advice I was provided when I was starting out. Most of the advice was and is great, helped me improve as a hunter a lot. Cleaning a gun, or basics regarding the BDC reticle, while I am sure were meant well, were unfortunately as bad of advice as they come. I was told by some likely well meaning staff that this BDC is meant for 180gr ammo, and the distance values represent, when sighted in at a 100y, progressively 200y, 300y, 400y and 500y. My bad for not doing more research on my own, and too bad that I was not aware of any apps helping the user with changing values.

Another lesson learned. Funny is, that as 835 said, they are meant to work on max magnification, and in my case at max they are very close, if not right on target of what I was told by the sales guy, so shooting gongs at 500, 400 worked just fine, coz I had to use the max for clearer view.

Thank you all for pointing the obvious. Back to the range to do my thing once more.

Final question, as I was told to do it for extended period of time, but refused to do so, as I assumed it would mess up my BDC values, is it really better to have the gun sighted at 200y rather the old-fashioned 100y?

[Squire]

The BDC Nikon Ballistics calculator is a good place to start. See what your bullet at your determined MV does at different ranges. If you don't know your actual MV you won't know for sure if the calculator reflects your bullet path. I use the Nikon BDC on two rifles that line up the crosshairs at 100 yards and the circles at 200, 300, 400, 500 yards within a couple of yards either way which is great for actual hunting scenarios. These are a 7mm-08 with a 2.5-10X Monarch and a .338 Win Mag with a 4-16X Monarch. I have other calibres and loads that don't line up like this and I use other scopes/reticles on them.
In the example by boxhitch the 30-06 165 grain didn't line up with even values for the circles at max magnification but a 150 grain bullet may have. Your crosshair or center stays the same at different magnifications so I prefer the 100 yard zero with the BDC scope and there is less thinking in hunting situations. Out to 100 yards you hold on center and at longer ranges you generally turn up the magnification anyway making the circles line up with easy to remember values. I have 'truthed' my two set-ups at intervals out to 400 yards and a 475 yard gong. It's a great hunting set-up when it all lines up as long as you have a means of accurately determining the distance to your target.

[boxhitch]

Final question, as I was told to do it for extended period of time, but refused to do so, as I assumed it would mess up my BDC values, is it really better to have the gun sighted at 200y rather the old-fashioned 100y?Depends on what you want your bdc-mark values to represent.

Virtually all BDC values have to be verified for each rifle and load. Never assume.
It doesn't amtter if a mark is for 300 or for 340 or 280 , just know it and use accordingly.

Not sure where the notion came that zeroing at 100 is normal or old.
With most average speed cartridges, the poa for 100 is very close to that of 200, trajectory is relatively flat inside those..

For open country, and no special optics gadgets, I always recommend a 300 yd zero. Hold over for 400 is doable, and the drop at 500 is about half of that for a 200 yd zero.

[adriaticum]

Educate yourself about Moa, mrads and mildot scopes.
BdC is junk.
Youtube National Shooting Sports Foundation.
Ryan Cleckner.

[boxhitch]

Funny is, that as 835 said, they are meant to work on max magnification,Any power setting can be used, just have to know what the yardage value is for each mark at that particular setting.
here is an example of a chart. No guessing , no wondering where you left your turret dialled to last time.






3.0X
4.0X
5.0X
6.0X
7.0X
8.0X
9.0X


BDC 1
437
384
351
327
311
297
287


BDC 2
655
565
504
462
429
404
384


BDC 3
827
712
634
575
532
497
469


BDC 4
1038
900
802
730
672
627
590


Post
1203
1052
940
857
792
739
694

[.264winmag]

^^ HA, ya that's much simpler to remember than just twisting a dial;) Bring your bdc rig out here and we'll see what works better. Loser buys beers, powerful thirsty I are!

[hoochie]

Im a dial spinner. my scope has hold points on it, but I calculated my load speed and the hold points dont match as accurately as I can can set the dial.
range it, look at my range card on my scope, dial accordingly.. steady and squeeze.

[Squire]

^^ HA, ya that's much simpler to remember than just twisting a dial;) Bring your bdc rig out here and we'll see what works better. Loser buys beers, powerful thirsty I are!

Your point is taken that dials may be easier to use in most cases - I own one in a Swarovski and one in a Leupold and like them both.

Now consider my son's BDC set-up with his 7mm-08. Zeroed at 100, according to the calculator the other aiming points at 10X are as follows: BDC1:206, BDC2:304, BDC3:389, BDC4:509, Post:614.
Most people can remember 1,2,3,4,5,6 and most will turn the power up to 10X for shots 200 or more anyway.
I have truthed this at the range and a three shot group at 1.5" at 300 is about 1" high and holding the top of the 4th circle nails the 475 yard gong every time.
I'd play for beer:lol:

[.264winmag]

Bring it, I've yet to see consistent first round hits on moa targets way out and/or in between the bdc marks. Spend enough time mucking around at a know target and ya you can get a bunch of hits in a row. Change something substantial and you're starting over. That's been my experience anyhoo.

[Squire]

Bring it, I've yet to see consistent first round hits on moa targets way out and/or in between the bdc marks. Spend enough time mucking around at a know target and ya you can get a bunch of hits in a row. Change something substantial and you're starting over. That's been my experience anyhoo.

You can't hit a known target without the range values matching up. I don't change anything substantial; sight in for 100 yard zero and use 10X for longer ranges. Any set-up can get you repeatable results with practice and I wouldn't call 1.5" groups at 300 yards 'mucking around'.
I have the Leupold BDC scopes with the hashmarks and have become proficient with them after practice has revealed the range values for me. I find the Nikon circles easier to use when the values line up at even numbers. The biggest thing with any system including turrets is knowing the actual MV of your bullet from your rifle.

I missed paper once at 100 yards with my Swarovski and had to do a little red-faced turn of the turret back to zero and go again. There are advantages and pitfalls to any choice. I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Nikon BDC over a turret but a lot of hunters on a budget could benefit from a system that costs <$500 and at least for me is field proven.

[.264winmag]

300 yds is mucking around;) don't need anything other than a duplex reticle and a 300 yd zero! Nothing fancy needed for short range work. If you want to get serious twist turrets!

I've set up a few rifles without a chrony, biggest thing I would say is verifying the drop at the furthest range you'll shoot. Trust the #ers that machine spits out all you like and punch em into a program. I've yet to not play with mv
while verifying a drop chart.

This whole forgetting to reset the turrrt thing drives me nuts, it should be second nature to reset just like unloading your firearm when finished shooting.

[boxhitch]

As this thread is a discussion and a quick 101 on BDC scopes, maybe a new thread is needed for the MOA for Dummies discussion. Spell it out how dots are used and let other decide which is better.

[.264winmag]

If you're talking a ffp scope than I might be on board more. Forgetting to set your magnification is just as easy to mess up as adjusting a windage dial. No?
As to the op question, no I am not fluent with the bdc system, and I tried the Nikon version...

[.264winmag]

Maybe I just didn't give it a fair chance, although a couple hundred rounds I called it quits and used the handy elevation dial instead. What I was trying to do was have the middle of the hold off circles match up evenly in 100 yd increments. That would make sense as an in between the circle hold should be a 50 yd increment hold, top/bottom of circle a 25 increment hold and so on. Just couldn't make it happen even with changing magnification etc. Without said match up I felt the advantage of quick hold off referencing was not there, and as it was a 2nd focal plane scope the hold off circles changing size as magnification is changed made things even more confusing. 'Shading' the hold off circles for certain magnification and ranges works in theory, just not as repeatable and handy in my limited experience.

Good luck with it and happy shooting.

[Darksith]

How about just being a hunter and simply close the distance rather than trying to kill something a mile away?

I know my bullet drops X " at X yards...out to a certain point. Anything beyond that isn't worth it...One day maybe for fun I will purchase a $5000.00 setup that someone else has dialed in for me including the load I should be shooting.

[nolimits]

How about just being a hunter and simply close the distance rather than trying to kill something a mile away?

I know my bullet drops X " at X yards...out to a certain point. Anything beyond that isn't worth it...One day maybe for fun I will purchase a $5000.00 setup that someone else has dialed in for me including the load I should be shooting.

Hey, no one here is talking about killing a mile away. 200-300 yards for me for deer max, 400-500 yards max for moose. Also, I am not saying that I would not bother with closing the distance, as of course that makes for nice challenge and for easier shot, but you see, the game is not always in mood to cooperate with that closing in effort.

[Squire]

Maybe I just didn't give it a fair chance, although a couple hundred rounds I called it quits and used the handy elevation dial instead. What I was trying to do was have the middle of the hold off circles match up evenly in 100 yd increments. That would make sense as an in between the circle hold should be a 50 yd increment hold, top/bottom of circle a 25 increment hold and so on. Just couldn't make it happen even with changing magnification etc. Without said match up I felt the advantage of quick hold off referencing was not there, and as it was a 2nd focal plane scope the hold off circles changing size as magnification is changed made things even more confusing. 'Shading' the hold off circles for certain magnification and ranges works in theory, just not as repeatable and handy in my limited experience.

Good luck with it and happy shooting.

You got into it in way more depth than I did because my only plan for it was setting up my son for hunting out to reasonable distances like 400-500 max. I got my actual MV at the range with the Labradar and chose the scope for the rifle based on making the calculator work at even increments on the highest magnification. We managed to achieve what you tried and couldn't with your load and rifle and we could verify it at the range (about 120 rounds). If I couldn't have achieved that I wouldn't have stayed with it. Messing with magnification is a step I wouldn't have bothered to take as the goal was 'simple and repeatable in the field'. You are also trying to achieve a level of precision that I don't claim to. I am only claiming that I can repeat the point of impact out to 475 yards within an inch or two of elevation which is plenty adequate for confidence in hunting situations.

A dial is obviously superior as it would apply to all combinations but when the Nikon BDC does line up well it's an affordable option that could work for many hunters and I personally prefer it over the hashmarks of a Leupold BDC.

As for it being second nature to turn a turret back to zero it takes practice and I am new to these fancy toys.:grin:

[turbolar]

Learn MOA it is not hard to learn and is extremly acurate. I ranged my elk this year at 1241 yards, with one shot kill. Two years ago i would not dreamed of shooting beyond 400 yards. I took a shooting course from a local guy.

[.264winmag]

A dial is obviously superior

My point all along. Carefull with the long range stuff though, it's not really hunting apparently...

[Jetboater]

My point all along. Carefull with the long range stuff though, it's not really hunting apparently...

Im getting lazy I am very comfortable dialing out to 1000yds with one shot