Honey hole... not anymore

[hoochie]

There is an area in reg 3 that we have gone to for the past few years and always got our WT.
Just got back from 6 days there; and I didnt see a single WT anywhere in that area. Really it was strange.
Mule deer everywhere and in good numbers, but white tail? where did they all go??

[Weatherby Fan]

Pm me the exact area and I'll ask those Mule Deer for you ;-)

[adriaticum]

They have escaped the logging and the cattle.
Or might just be nocturnal

[Ourea]

There is an area in reg 3 that we have gone to for the past few years and always got our WT.
Just got back from 6 days there; and I didnt see a single WT anywhere in that area. Really it was strange.
Mule deer everywhere and in good numbers, but white tail? where did they all go??

Welcome to the world that is white hunting in semi arid areas of BC.
There can be ebbs and flows far as location during certain times of the year.
With the cooler and wetter summer I have seen a shift in WT in the area I am focused on.

Just an FYI.......I check 15+ trail cams focused on WT weekly.
In the 3 years I have been doing this I have seen only a handful of WT on the drive and hikes, yet I get numerous on cam.
WT simply adapt to any form of pressure.
They are a prolific species for a reason.

[ruger#1]

I find when the snow hits. It pushes the deer down. Maybe they are staying higher up. Or might be wolves or a cat in the area.

[adriaticum]

Welcome to the world that is white hunting in semi arid areas of BC.
There can be ebbs and flows far as location during certain times of the year.
With the cooler and wetter summer I have seen a shift in WT in the area I am focused on.

Just an FYI.......I check 15+ trail cams focused on WT weekly.
In the 3 years I have been doing this I have seen only a handful of WT on the drive and hikes, yet I get numerous on cam.
WT simply adapt to any form of pressure.
They are a prolific species for a reason.


From what little I have seen with WT I agree with this wholeheartedly.
I think we assume that WT are like mulies and BT and carry mule deer hunting habits into WT hunts.
Mistake IMO.
I have hiked a lot in search of WT and saw zilch. I found the less I move and walk, the more WT I see.
So now I'm going to be building blinds and tree stands and learn to carve spoons to deal with my lack of patience while sitting.

[FsjElkHunter]

Is there an increase of cattle farming in the area. I found that areas where there were good numbers of game before dwindled once the cattle farmers got in the area. Cattle push out the game that graze like elk and whitetail. I have heard this from other hunters too. Also we have a high number of predators mainly wolves and grizzly in BC.

[adriaticum]

Is there an increase of cattle farming in the area. I found that areas where there were good numbers of game before dwindled once the cattle farmers got in the area. Cattle push out the game that graze like elk and whitetail. I have heard this from other hunters too. Also we have a high number of predators mainly wolves and grizzly in BC.


This is true. We had calves push out deer in one area.
Funny thing Sofa King has this one camera focused on a little branch where all the WT in the area were rubbing.
Cows came in and one calf broke this branch. No deer visited for a couple of days.
Then we went there and fixed this branch with zip ties and 1 hr after we fixed it a buck came and rubbed it.
It didn't matter that our smell was on it.

[hoochie]

Is there an increase of cattle farming in the area. I found that areas where there were good numbers of game before dwindled once the cattle farmers got in the area. Cattle push out the game that graze like elk and whitetail.

This may be the issue. there was more cattle than in past years. we saw moose, bear, coyote, half dozen 3X3 or less Mulie bucks, around 20 Mulie does and loads of grouse. Just not WT.

[russm]

Ive never seen a deer, whiteail or mule around cattle if theres lots of cattle around move on

[Ron.C]

Ive never seen a deer, whiteail or mule around cattle if theres lots of cattle around move on

Lol, I don't hunt farm fields but have hunted bush that has grazing lease. Shot my biggest whitetail to date with about 30 head of cattle 60 yards from my stand. We used to walk through fresh piles of cow @#%& in the hope that it would mask some of our scent on the way to the stand. And have taken two elk with cattle less than 100 yards.
I think it really depends on the area you are hunting, how long the cattle have shared the area with the wildlife and what sort of human pressure is compounding it all .

[Ourea]

I am having a real issue with cattle in my little WT project area this year.
When they show up my cams go dead.
There appears to be an obvious correlation.
I will support what some are saying based on my cam evidence

[markt308]

Ive never seen a deer, whiteail or mule around cattle if theres lots of cattle around move on

this is an interesting experience, but not typical at all

[swampthing]

Game management at its best! Coarse deer [whitetail] gone and mulies doing well.! Cant ask for better.

[hoochie]

Ive never seen a deer, whiteail or mule around cattle if theres lots of cattle around move on

I see them together very often. WT/ Mulie along with cattle. I watched about 12 deer "mingle" with cattle in a cut the other day. sat there for about an hour and a half waiting for a big enough buck to appear. They dont stand right next to each other, but they dont seem to avoid each other.
if I go up there next weekend, I will try and get a pic to show you what I mean.

[HarryToolips]

^^^^same here, I've had WT hide behind cattle from me lol...

[Sitkaspruce]

Welcome to the world that is white hunting in semi arid areas of BC.
There can be ebbs and flows far as location during certain times of the year.
With the cooler and wetter summer I have seen a shift in WT in the area I am focused on.

Just an FYI.......I check 15+ trail cams focused on WT weekly.
In the 3 years I have been doing this I have seen only a handful of WT on the drive and hikes, yet I get numerous on cam.
WT simply adapt to any form of pressure.
They are a prolific species for a reason.

Same with me, lucky if I see a deer while heading into check my cams, yet I get as much as 1000 picts in a week of nothing but whitetails. I see more wt deer in a couple fields on my drive in or out than I see all hunting season, yet the cams show me they are there. They have taught me a lot on how to change up my hunting style from BT and MD, biggest one is Patience......you need lots of it as they test it every day I hunt them.


I am having a real issue with cattle in my little WT project area this year.
When they show up my cams go dead.
There appears to be an obvious correlation.
I will support what some are saying based on my cam evidence

My one cam has cattle that show up every July and after that it is a dead zone for animals. The number of videos goes from 500/week of deer, elk and moose to 500/week of bush maggots with the odd wt doe showing up. No elk or moose as they move on. Once the cattle are out of the grazing area, it takes at least a week to 10 days for the deer to move back in, but the elk/moose are gone. One interesting note is that the first year I put the cam up, there was no permit for cattle and had lots of wildlife, mostly whitetails and elk, with few MD showing up. We killed a 150 class whitetail buck that year. The next year the maggots showed up and after they left, surprisingly only a couple WT showed up (no bucks) and I had a ton of MD show up, including a couple nice bucks, last year was the same as the WT seem to have moved on. Will see what happens this year as the cattle are still in there.

I believe that the cattle do have an influence on wildlife movement; it is what happens after they leave that really shows the affect of them being there.

Cheers

SS

[hoochie]

I believe that the cattle do have an influence on wildlife movement; it is what happens after they leave that really shows the affect of them being there.

Cheers

SS

The thing is, that the cattle have always been there from when I first started to hunt that area 6 years ago. I just pulled up google earth and measured an approximate distance of the area I am talking about. its roughly 20 Sq Km's.
We would always see deer in their herds on the way into camp, and every year they would be within 1km of where we had seen them the year before. We may see them on one side of a tree line, now they are on the other side. But they would always be within the same area of free standing timber.
In the morning, the MD would be through out the fields in small groups, and in the evening the MD would have moved to another area close to the morning location; but the WT would come out at night around 6pm and be in the place where the MD had been in the morning.
It really wasnt rocket science at all.
they are all herd animals and they eat in the same areas. The big difference is that I know if I was to go higher up the mountains to where there are more MD, I would not encounter WT.
I have been thinking about all this cattle stuff, and I am having a hard time believing it this morning.

a group of cattle walk into an area to feed, and this causes WT deer to move out of a 20km area? while MD do not?
not logical.

[adriaticum]

The thing is, that the cattle have always been there from when I first started to hunt that area 6 years ago. I just pulled up google earth and measured an approximate distance of the area I am talking about. its roughly 20 Sq Km's.
We would always see deer in their herds on the way into camp, and every year they would be within 1km of where we had seen them the year before. We may see them on one side of a tree line, now they are on the other side. But they would always be within the same area of free standing timber.
In the morning, the MD would be through out the fields in small groups, and in the evening the MD would have moved to another area close to the morning location; but the WT would come out at night around 6pm and be in the place where the MD had been in the morning.
It really wasnt rocket science at all.
they are all herd animals and they eat in the same areas. The big difference is that I know if I was to go higher up the mountains to where there are more MD, I would not encounter WT.
I have been thinking about all this cattle stuff, and I am having a hard time believing it this morning.

a group of cattle walk into an area to feed, and this causes WT deer to move out of a 20km area? while MD do not?
not logical.

Cattle affect deer.
They eat their food, take up their shelters and trails.

Just read what you wrote. They area herd animals and eat in the same areas.
What happens when they run out of food?

If an area has enough food to support 20 heads of animals for 6 months, how many months of food will 100 animals have?
Solve that for an A+

[MOWITCH SLAYER]

both region 3 and 8 have in oct 10-31 a wt. doe season open for everyone. Then in nov. wt. does open again for a youth season nov.1-31. The only place to find whitetail does in on private land behind a no shooting sign . we have had these regs for a few years now and in region 3 and 8 its is showing big time. just my thoughts !

[Ourea]

both region 3 and 8 have in oct 10-31 a wt. doe season open for everyone. Then in nov. wt. does open again for a youth season nov.1-31. The only place to find whitetail does in on private land behind a no shooting sign . we have had these regs for a few years now and in region 3 and 8 its is showing big time. just my thoughts !

I think many confuse perceived lack of inventory with adaptation.
There is endless science to support that it is extremely difficult to have much effect on WT numbers by liberal seasons.
Buggers adapt to pressure quickly.
Their reproduction capabilities are second to none as a species, thus their proliferation.

[walks with deer]

I found my whitetail spot is great once the cattle are pulled out...that said I have waited to shoot whitetails so I wounded hit the cow with my exit..

Much wetter year game doesn't need to move as much for food or water...good news is there will be tonnes of bucks when the rut comes in that where holed up most the year.

[walks with deer]

Ps anybody that gets out a lot will know there are tonnes of whitetails visible in spring turkey season..they didn't all get shot.

[Darksith]

A lot of early and even constant pressure in some reg 3 areas. I know spots where you might catch a doe in the open at first light, but due to the pressure you almost never see them out. Trail cams in the trees prove they are there but never out in the open these past few years, getting worse every year

[sausage lover]

They don't roam like a mule deer and hang around areas they find good food and cover.Was cutting wood last fall and had two white tail walk right up to me while running my saw! Found out they like to eat parts of the fir tree that's up out of their reach! Running Dozer clearing a bit of land early this month and after I shut the dozer off they cam out to start rooting through brush piles. Very adaptable critter! one or two of these deer will get the cross bow soon:tongue:

[Fisher-Dude]

both region 3 and 8 have in oct 10-31 a wt. doe season open for everyone. Then in nov. wt. does open again for a youth season nov.1-31. The only place to find whitetail does in on private land behind a no shooting sign . we have had these regs for a few years now and in region 3 and 8 its is showing big time. just my thoughts !

The deer have adapted. You haven't.

[wideopenthrottle]

i was hunting in 5-2 last week for moose (group LEH)..

For the first time ever in the bush, i saw a mixed group of deer with a WT buck (might have been a second WT in the mix) mixed in with some mule does..
They were all lying/mulling around together on the same hill side ...

We had driven the 4runner into a deep spot where the road got bad and it opened up to a large cutover on the hill before us... it was time to park...

With a big open slash we decided to do some glassing before calling for moose... we had binos up when buddy said "there's a deer" after watching for a while we had spotted 3 that were all muley does...we were looking for a 4 point muley in the mix when both my partner and i said..there is wood on that one that just stood up...but it looks like a 3 point whitetail ....

My buddy then tried to stand up on my running board and slipped which was enough noise to startle the group we definitely saw the flash of a white tail on the buck before it sauntered off...

After the rest of the deer had all popped up we counted 7 or 8 in total....they were at about 300 yards or so..once startled the rest of them stood up had a look our way and started moving along at a modest speed.....

The muleys does all moved up and over the crest of the hill while the WT buck (and one other deer that we think was another WT) moved sidehill to the tall trees.

We both then shook our heads and realized that we could have maybe had a shot at the buck if we were prepared/ready for shooting at a WT buck/4 point muley but we were moose hunting so we didn't take seeing the deer too seriously and missed our chance watching instead of preparing for a shot. We decided to take sighting/shooting a deer more seriously for the rest of the trip.