Spring bear Meat Gone Bad Help

[b.c hunter 88]

Hello

Well just got home from camp (work)
I got a spring bear this year. Cut it all up myself did a few roast all ready awesome top quality.
well i took 60 lbs to the butcher to be ground (had crappy product before from this place but only place in town) figured you cant screw up grinding it big mistake
my parents told me they did some up and it was very fishy smell to the point of throwing out.
I took some out today and cooked it seem fine before cooking wile only a few minutes into this i knew this meat was sour pretty sure they left it out or something. the smell is unbearable never had bear meat like that words dont describe the nastiness i got a roast in the slow cooker right now from the same bear absolute nothing wrong with it. but i cut up the roast and steaks i was very careful to keep cool. anyone else have this before. only when the ground meat is cooked it has a fishy wild game sour smell i'm positive its bad. i know bear fat goes bad very fast is not delt with right.

thanks

[srupp]

Hmmm confusing..as bone sour usually is associated with not getting the meat cooled down..shows up in adding heat ... cooking..strange that roasts are OK. .burger trimmings are not.maybe mixed your bear with someone else's. .batched grind?..
Steven

[b.c hunter 88]

No batched grind that i know of but iv hear of it before with other game meat getting mixed in. ill be buying a grinder asap
Guess I'm throwing out the ground meat.

[skibum]

A half decent grinder would probably run just twice your paid to get the meat ground

[On my two feet]

So I've had this experience when I've ground bear at home with older pork fat cut in, best thing to do is get fresh fat and grind it all at once. I hunt coastal bears and find its best to eat bear as quickly as possible, it will get fishy if left in freezer. I think I have maybe 3 meals left from my bear shot in May.

[Steeleco]

A half decent grinder would probably run just twice your paid to get the meat ground

And last a long time, mine is at least 10 years old and saved me $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you can cut you can grind.

[landphil]

Yeah, even a cheap grinder works OK if you keep the meat cold and let the motor cool every ten pounds or so. Buy the best you can possibly afford though. Too bad about your bear meat, not what a guy wants to happen at all.

[Whonnock Boy]

Was it a fish bear? Was all the meat that you had for burger the trim and fat, or would you consider it the same quality as the roasts?

[Xenomorph]

I butcher all my stuff and believe it or not I still use the Kitchen Aid 1hp to grind all my stuff, besides bread, pasta and all the works. Shopped around, got the best deal on the best motor and been happy with it.

Definitely fishy if you have had good meat (roasts) and your grind comes up sour.

[MB_Boy]

Crab bait?

[walks with deer]

Get rid off it I had 1 bear gross out of alot of them wife cooked it when pregnant. Bad news for me..she will eat bear again but this year they get to walk as I have a shit load off moose and caribou.

[Bear Brawler]

Grab a grinder from Canadian tire, clean it real well and return it. I actually know someone who did this. I was shocked

[Rhyno]

My Dad picked me up a hand grinder from an "antique store", almost new condition for $10. Yeah the old arms get a work out but very cost effective!

[boxhitch]

and no plastic parts, right?
Have used arm power for over 500 lbs of burger over the years
still don't look like Popeye though

[Rhyno]

and no plastic parts, right?
Have used arm power for over 500 lbs of burger over the years
still don't look like Popeye though

No plastic, solid metal with a wood handle. If you don't feel you are up to the task spend sometime on the female appreciation thread to train:shock:

[b.c hunter 88]

had a roast in the slow cooker all night the meat is int even near close between the ground and the roast.
its beyond a sour smell for the ground its very rancid. its gotta go. the roast and steaks on the other hand are top quality. ill stick to the guy up north for my butcher needs or ill just do it all myself.

[Linksman313]

That really sucks, had the same happen to me with an LML butcher when we still resided there, figured it was a mixed batch job. Bought the old second hand store grinder and went at it ourselves from then on.

[Whonnock Boy]

It's too bad, as it seems this kind of stuff happens all too often with game butchers. Ever since I started butchering my own, I have not had any "gamey" game. Well, except for the moose I brought in for sausage to an unproven sausage maker. Every third or fourth bite I would get a "gamey" taste, this after I specifically asked if he would make my sausage mixed with no other meat. First and last time I went to him. Have started making my own now.

[russm86]

Did you freeze it with fat still on it? Wild game fat will go rancid even in the freezer, it's best to completely remove all of it as best you can and don't freeze any meat with much fat on it. If you want to use the fat render it right away.

[teelt]

And last a long time, mine is at least 10 years old and saved me $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you can cut you can grind.

i agree. I have had mine for 3 yrs now and runs awesome. Have down moose, 7 caribou, sheep. It's pretty wicked and was only $120 on sale at can tire. Got the Weston meat grinder with some of the attachments. If you cut your meat yourself might as well buy one and save the hassle going to a butcher.

[Xenomorph]

Did you freeze it with fat still on it? Wild game fat will go rancid even in the freezer, it's best to completely remove all of it as best you can and don't freeze any meat with much fat on it. If you want to use the fat render it right away.

Does it? I vacuum pack my game meat, even the ground, never had any taste problems and I never removed the fat.

[caddisguy]

It's difficult to say whether or not the butcher did anything wrong. If anything was borderline to begin with, the extra time spent not frozen could have been enough to turn it fishy. Our bear this year seems borderline. I put a package in the fridge to thaw and it probably thawed after 2 days, but spent an extra day after that. My wife cooked up the steak and I was eating it. It seemed fine, but about half way through I ate a piece and holy crap it was even more fishy than bad sushi. Had my wife smell it to make sure I wasn't crazy. Nope. Definitely fishy. I suspect we did not get the meat cooled as much or as quickly as the last one OR there was some contamination, or a combination of the two. Now when we take a pack out to thaw, we usually leave it in the fridge overnight and then run it under cold water before grinding/cooking. Haven't run into any more fishy bits since.

In our case, we shot the bear around 5pm, probably 30 degrees... had the meat back to camp by around 9pm. We put the game bags into a roughneck rubbermaid container against a couple blocks of ice, then put the rubbermaid container in a cold creek for abour an hour, took it out before bed and back into our camp so we would hear if something tried to mess with it. Got home around 11AM the next day and we spent about 4-5 hours cutting and vaccum packing. We had the AC on but it was still around 24C inside. The meat was still in the rubbermaid with ice while we worked and we'd cut and vacuum as quickly as possible, then either put it into the fridge or one of the freezers. Seems like we did everything reasonably well, but I still ended up with a part that tasted fishy. I imagine if I would have taken a bunch to the butcher for grinding that the extra time would have led to more going bad. I don't have a heck of a lot of experience with game meat, but my impression is that bear meat is a race against time. I guess all meat technically is... but bear meat is a sprinting one... seems similar to trying to care for several jugs of milk.

Getting a grinder is good advice. We just have a hand grinder from my wifes grandmother that is pretty much an antique... it must be 60-70 years old. It's a bit of a workout, but if you do your job it will do its job.

[russm86]

Does it? I vacuum pack my game meat, even the ground, never had any taste problems and I never removed the fat.

That's what every single butcher I've ever met, including a friend that has 30+ years experience as a trained butcher/meat cutter (as well as being an instructor and Dean of the meat cutting program at the local university), has told me as well as google so must be more to it than an old wives tale. Vacuum packing may get you by longer as I think oxygen getting to the fat speeds up the process. This also all varies depending on how lean the meat was to begin with. Anyone I know takes all the large/thick areas of fat off the back and hinds...

[albravo2]

Grab a grinder from Canadian tire, clean it real well and return it. I actually know someone who did this. I was shocked

Canadian Tire has a crappy return policy. Nothing that has been opened. It is ridiculous.

Princess auto, on the other hand...

[caddisguy]

That's what every single butcher I've ever met, including a friend that has 30+ years experience as a trained butcher/meat cutter (as well as being an instructor and Dean of the meat cutting program at the local university), has told me as well as google so must be more to it than an old wives tale. Vacuum packing may get you by longer as I think oxygen getting to the fat speeds up the process. This also all varies depending on how lean the meat was to begin with. Anyone I know takes all the large/thick areas of fat off the back and hinds...

We vacuum pack everything and haven't had any issues. We ate the last of last years bear a few days before we harvested this years bear... almost exactly 1 year. The fat still tasted great. Hopefully this will be the same case with this years haul. I do suspect vacuum packing helps a lot.

[Xenomorph]

We vacuum pack everything and haven't had any issues. We ate the last of last years bear a few days before we harvested this years bear... almost exactly 1 year. The fat still tasted great. Hopefully this will be the same case with this years haul. I do suspect vacuum packing helps a lot.


It's probably a combination of them all: how fast it's cooled, how fast it's processed, vacuum sealed or not. For me -knock on wood- so far it made no difference how much fat I left/took. Roasts, steaks and ground meat, all as fresh and tasty as the first day.

Truth be told my mom's bear roast recipe and marinade is tough to beat ...

[b.c hunter 88]

I'm positive it was that meat alone was out to long when i shoot a bear i get the quarters in the freezer and i cut it all up fast pulling each cooled quarter out (not frozen by any means) cut it wrap it freeze it.

fishy smell dont really explain the smell from this its very gross like rotten meat.
buying a grinder. still have a butcher up north if i shoot something this round in camp.

[tigrr]

Butcher your own animals. 4 people 3 hours and it is done. Then you get "your" bear meat in "your" freezer. 5 moose, 4 deer and 3 bear have been butchered by my better half and I. And some with friends.

[Rotorwash]

I butcher all my stuff and believe it or not I still use the Kitchen Aid 1hp to grind all my stuff, besides bread, pasta and all the works. Shopped around, got the best deal on the best motor and been happy with it.



I'm always amazed at the stuff i shove in a kitchenaid and i just chugs along happy as can be.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Only animal I have ever took to a butcher was a bear and was also my last.

Do your own. Don't put any fat in your trim. Toss it out or use it for your boots.
Also, don't put any of the dried outer 'crust' in your trim if you hung your bear. Toss that too.

[BigMrMeats]

I've been a meat cutter for 20 years. Here are some questions to research...

Spring bears don't generally taste a ton like fish anymore, but it does happen.

There are some places that an animal smells more like what it's been eating than others. Fat is one of the places, but collagen is also another big one. What was the fat content of the meat that was brought in? How much collagen and connective tissue was in the trim? Did any glands slip in? Did any other product species get added to your burger?

(A grinder that grinds fish.... is pretty hard to get the smell out of FOREVER!)


If the bear was eating a lot of fish on it's diet, it is possible, but you should have tasted that in other parts of the meat.

So that leaves handling. (I'm just going to throw it out there, that I think this is where things went wrong.)

Processed meat has opened up surface area to contamination. There are bacteria that smell like seafood. They are food spoilage bacteria, so they aren't dangerous to eat when cooked, but they are unappealing. This might be part of the problem, but it will be amplified by the next part.

Thermal contamination. If it wasn't kept cool enough, through the whole process. By cold, I mean roughly 4C. Not just it was kind of cool... but cooler cold. Bacteria can grow at an alarming rate (double procreation every 20mins in some cases) so the safe rule is to keep the meat below 4C. When you got the bear... how long, if ever, did the carcass get down to below 4C? Was it kept that cold while you worked on it? Was it in the fridge or cooler running cold while it was waiting to go to the butcher? Did this meat shop get it cold, keep it cold and is their equipment clean?

If you brought the trim in frozen, did they thaw it in a cooler or did they thaw it in their sink overnight? If the trim wasn't frozen... how long did it sit fresh?

Whole muscle meat handles bacterial and thermal contamination better because bacteria only grows on the outside. Think a loaf of bread.... the bacteria only grow on the crust... the inside is protected somewhat unless it's cut or penetrated. (Why your roasts aren't affected).

Small pieces of trim spread bacteria like CRAZY! That's why being mindful of temps is so important. If some of the rib meat got in there (just an example, could be part of the facia, just about anywhere exposed), and the bear was hung overnight in a garage or something... you get contamination through bacterial buildup, thermal abuse and excess collagen connective tissue being added. Then the product sits in a bags of 10 - 20 lbs... the product in the middle doesn't cool for hours. That bacteria has spread like mad now. Butcher puts it through his grinder and mixes it all up... packages it up... let's it sit again while it's waiting to get into a cooler again, or in the freezer...

You'd be left with something like what you're describing. Coupled with that bear fat goes bad very quickly.....

You're left with contaminated burger that smells like fish.

PM me if you need any help

[btridge]

I've been a meat cutter for 20 years. Here are some questions to research...

Spring bears don't generally taste a ton like fish anymore, but it does happen.

There are some places that an animal smells more like what it's been eating than others. Fat is one of the places, but collagen is also another big one. What was the fat content of the meat that was brought in? How much collagen and connective tissue was in the trim? Did any glands slip in? Did any other product species get added to your burger?

(A grinder that grinds fish.... is pretty hard to get the smell out of FOREVER!)


If the bear was eating a lot of fish on it's diet, it is possible, but you should have tasted that in other parts of the meat.

So that leaves handling. (I'm just going to throw it out there, that I think this is where things went wrong.)

Processed meat has opened up surface area to contamination. There are bacteria that smell like seafood. They are food spoilage bacteria, so they aren't dangerous to eat when cooked, but they are unappealing. This might be part of the problem, but it will be amplified by the next part.

Thermal contamination. If it wasn't kept cool enough, through the whole process. By cold, I mean roughly 4C. Not just it was kind of cool... but cooler cold. Bacteria can grow at an alarming rate (double procreation every 20mins in some cases) so the safe rule is to keep the meat below 4C. When you got the bear... how long, if ever, did the carcass get down to below 4C? Was it kept that cold while you worked on it? Was it in the fridge or cooler running cold while it was waiting to go to the butcher? Did this meat shop get it cold, keep it cold and is their equipment clean?

If you brought the trim in frozen, did they thaw it in a cooler or did they thaw it in their sink overnight? If the trim wasn't frozen... how long did it sit fresh?

Whole muscle meat handles bacterial and thermal contamination better because bacteria only grows on the outside. Think a loaf of bread.... the bacteria only grow on the crust... the inside is protected somewhat unless it's cut or penetrated. (Why your roasts aren't affected).

Small pieces of trim spread bacteria like CRAZY! That's why being mindful of temps is so important. If some of the rib meat got in there (just an example, could be part of the facia, just about anywhere exposed), and the bear was hung overnight in a garage or something... you get contamination through bacterial buildup, thermal abuse and excess collagen connective tissue being added. Then the product sits in a bags of 10 - 20 lbs... the product in the middle doesn't cool for hours. That bacteria has spread like mad now. Butcher puts it through his grinder and mixes it all up... packages it up... let's it sit again while it's waiting to get into a cooler again, or in the freezer...

You'd be left with something like what you're describing. Coupled with that bear fat goes bad very quickly.....

You're left with contaminated burger that smells like fish.

PM me if you need any help
Thanks for posting, Well said. Meat coolers are out there, pre-plan Before you get an animal on the ground.

[b.c hunter 88]

no i found out it was left out at the butchers for a few hours also they batch grind everything when they get a few of the same thing in they wont just grind up one animal. will never go there again just a reminder bear meat needs to stay cool.
all other cuts off the bear so far are awesome no fishy or game smell, slight gamy taste but haven't perfected the perfect recipe yet.
plan to get my next bear made in to sausage from a butcher i used many times and never had a bad product but hes been doing it for 30 years. hes just 1300 km away lol

[Whonnock Boy]

This is what kills it for the people that are meticulous with their game. One animal can ruin 3 or 4.


they batch grind everything when they get a few of the same thing in they wont just grind up one animal. will never go there again

[BigMrMeats]

If they held onto your product until they enough for a mass batch... then your product was most likely temp abused (frozen while it waited then thawed badly) or jut held refrigerated until it got processed. That's bad.

If they did that to another 2 or 3 animals... mixed them together and gave you "your" product... that's even worse.

Solid possibility is that it wasn't even your animal that contaminated your batch as much as someone else's product and terrible temp control.

So sorry.... that's not the way any butcher or meat cutter with half-a-brain operates.

If you buy a grinder, and you want to get into it. PM what kind of sausages you're into and I'll help you with some recipes so you can make your own stuff at nothing the cost and you don't have to travel 1300kms to get to the guy you like.

[bacon_overlord]

Sausage making isn't that hard once you get a grinder.. 1/2 hp one on sale at cabelas for $99 right now. Order online free shipping.
Get some hog casing an pork or beef fat trim from butcher shop, do 5lb cubed near frozen game to 1lb fat in a coarse grind. Add 1/2 c red wine for liquid, or something similar (guiness) 1t salt & pepper, and other seasoning as desired. Garlic and things like fennel seed, sage, marjoram. Mix very well, ideally in a stand mixer with a bread mixer blade. You can do small batches of seasoned ground, throw a little in the pan and taste and adjust to your liking. Once you have a mix you like put on fine grind and have one person feed the grinder and the other twist sausage as is comes out. YouTube as always has lots of tips.

[RiverOtter]

no i found out it was left out at the butchers for a few hours also they batch grind everything when they get a few of the same thing in they wont just grind up one animal.


This is what kills it for the people that are meticulous with their game. One animal can ruin 3 or 4.

While batch grinding is about the worst meat shop practice ever, running clean meat through after tainted meat is not much better, and I doubt many butchers strip there grinders after each animal. Grinding your own meat is the only way to roll.

[btridge]

Sausage making isn't that hard once you get a grinder.. 1/2 hp one on sale at cabelas for $99 right now. Order online free shipping.
Get some hog casing an pork or beef fat trim from butcher shop, do 5lb cubed near frozen game to 1lb fat in a coarse grind. Add 1/2 c red wine for liquid, or something similar (guiness) 1t salt & pepper, and other seasoning as desired. Garlic and things like fennel seed, sage, marjoram. Mix very well, ideally in a stand mixer with a bread mixer blade. You can do small batches of seasoned ground, throw a little in the pan and taste and adjust to your liking. Once you have a mix you like put on fine grind and have one person feed the grinder and the other twist sausage as is comes out. YouTube as always has lots of tips.

Skip the fine grind and stick with the coarse grind, your sausage will have better texture and won't end up like sawdust.

[b.c hunter 88]

thanks guys
we use to do our own stuff all the time just dont have the time anymore.

[M.Dean]

I shot a big bull moose years ago, and the guy that was with me said, Hey, lets make our own sausages, I know everything about it! So like a idiot I went along with this guy and we made a pile of sausages. He bought the cases and pork fat and we made sausages, yards and yards of sausages, boy was it fun! When I cooked that sausage the smell in the entire house was unbearable to say the least! I found out later this guy had the pork fat in his freezer from the year before, it had thawed out twice from what I was told, and the smell from that fat when cooked all by it's self made maggots gag for God sakes! I couldn't give that sausage away, even for Dog Food! It too had a real rotten fishie smell to it, and what a waste of good moose meat!!!

[BigMrMeats]

Temp abused again!

Sausage making is pretty easy, depending on what you're doing. Fresh sausage is easy, cured sausage is more difficult. I'll just run a couple of basics.

1)Meat and all products associated with it have to be good, wholesome, quality product. If you wouldn't eat it as it is, don't make sausage out of it.

2) *****Temp abuse is the number one issue associated with most issues. It has to be COLD. When I say cold... below 4 degree's celcius all the time, and yes... that includes thawed meat. DON'T THAW IT ON THE COUNTER!!!!!

3) Product handling has to be CLEAN! Everything has to be CLEAN! And by clean, I mean sanitized, not sterilized... free of foreign debris. I don't make sausage out of meat from the rib cage for example (game meat here)... not that the meat is bad, but it has a high degree of being contaminated. If there is hair, dirt, "meat jelly", on the meat... or there is the wrong chemicals to clean the shop, you have dirty fingernails, bleach in your sink to "clean 'er up with"... you will have problems.

4)Speed. The reason why sausage makers go fast is because we have to! Small batch's faster is better than doing big batch's with the wrong equipment. If you take product out of a cooler, it needs to go back in it FAST to maintain temp and humidity control. If you're fighting your product or stumbling around... you need help.

5) This is relavent to everyone with a buddy who "knows everything about making sausage." If you hear your friend say that.... don't let him help you. Sausage making is a 7 year course to get papers... that man at the end will admit that he doesn't know everything. The 3,6 and 9 month courses you can take... teach the basics. You can watch and learn, get some basics too... and it really isn't that hard... but the guy who knows everything is just going to teach you what not to do at your expense.

[BigMrMeats]

I'm going to post a couple of recipes here later that are pretty good for all to try... but for all those that take their meat into a butcher... I want those people to use a calculator and ask a question.

If you have 50lbs of trim... and the butcher sells you 25lbs of pork (at a profit) to cut into your sausage (which is a good thing)... how much sausage do you have.

You should have 75lbs or slightly MORE because for every 10 lbs of sausage, you have 2 cups of liquid... which weights 1lb.

If you have 50lbs of trim... and the butcher sells you pork... and you get 50lbs of sausage back... the butcher just stole the difference in your game meat weight, and replaced it with cheap pork to you... and is likely selling the game meat back to another customer somewhere down the line. (Cut into his famous Bison smokies... or in his "secret recipe" pepperoni in the summer time, at a BIG PROFIT.

The question to ask the butcher... because he will charge you for the pork he had to buy and cut into your sausage (trying to make money here and pork isn't free)... how much pork by weight (and price per lb or kg) was cut into how much trim.... and where that pork got cut into. Ask how much trim you started with. ASK ASK ASK!!!

If the weight doesn't add up... you have a thief in front of you.

Sausage isn't jerky... you don't lose that much product by weight after it's processed and smoked... and the butcher charges you by the WET weight.... the weight before smoking.... so you would have NO loss of weight in his pocket book so far.