The end of grizzly trophy hunting in B.C. in 2017?

[Ohwildwon]

Check out the friendly face book banter...:roll:

http://www.vancouverobserver.com/opinion/end-grizzly-trophy-hunting-bc-2017 (http://www.vancouverobserver.com/opinion/end-grizzly-trophy-hunting-bc-2017)

[Surrey Boy]

Ok, so I shoot the bear without a tag and don't take the hide home. Feel better, SPCA?

Banning something is so effective, they should make all bad things illegal and the world would be a better place.

[finngun]

Even i am not gonna shoot the grizz...unless my protection...let other hunters to do it ,,as long we have no shortage of grizz..i dont think we have to worry about that right now..

[mpotzold]

The NDP must be prevented from forming the next & subsequent governments.
Even Andy(the Green Party guy) is not against it as long as we eat what we kill.

We know what the BC Conservatives stand is but don`t think they`ll get even one MLA in 2017.
More than likely I will pinch my nose & vote for CC.

[180grainer]

Phuke, you said check out the facebook thing and I think I clicked on the link to like........I need a shower,

[Ohwildwon]

Phuke, you said check out the facebook thing and I think I clicked on the link to like........I need a shower,


Link is at the top of page to the right...

Hunter James gave the author a decent earful..

[papaken]

Anyone or any party that advocates banning hunting will not get my vote.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Someone should demand equal time in a response. It can't be me cuz I'm a commie. Apparently.;-)

[Buck]

What we need is a aboriginal to go on there and tell them Grizzly hunting will continue like it or not.

[bighunter45]

Author is a total muppet. No understanding.

[Moose63]

What we need is a aboriginal to go on there and tell them Grizzly hunting will continue like it or not.

Aboriginals don't shoot bears.....

[REMINGTON JIM]

Aboriginals don't shoot bears.....

Well not SPIRIT bears anyhow ! lol RJ

[Xenomorph]

Aboriginals don't shoot bears.....

No, they don't; they just prickle them in the ear with .22 and bigger calibers.

[Rob Chipman]

The author of the article is no dummy.

Some may think she lacks understanding, but i doubt it. I suspect she knows exactly what she's doing. That article combines hot button issues with key emotion triggering words ( greedy, slaughter, etc) along with a couple pretty reasonable points that should be addressed (the debate over who's science is correct and the allegation that the hunt doesn't make sense from an economic point of view).

Some may think we deserve equal time in that paper to refute or debate her. That's not going to happen. She's writing in the Vancouver Observer. Publisher? Linda Solomon. I believe she's the sister of Joel Solomon. (Some of you can see where this is going).

Joel and Linda are from the US, trace their roots to Democrat politics through their father and want to bring significant social change to the world. They're very clear about that. The Observer is a tool for it.


Joel Solomon has said:

Any of us who have been awake during our lifetime have certainly come to the conclusion that the planet is on a very difficult and dangerous course. And I concluded that I should use the power and privilege that I had as a white North American male, from an affluent family, to use those tools – the power of business, and finance and politics towards the common good.
And if I did that, however many days I got to live, I’d be doing what I feel good about on my deathbed.
So I chose to move my career to Canada because of a great opportunity to work with a visionary inheritor of a substantial amount of resources named Carol Newell.
And we put together a strategy … which was to take a long term look at how to deploy financial resources towards systemic social change focused in one region.
So we make business investments, charitable grants, support collaborations, leadership development and capacity building with the hopes of influencing public policy and creating models of sustainability solutions long term.
If you live in Vancouver, BC you can’t help but notice what it means to be in one of the wealthiest and most blessed places on the planet. And if you can’t do it in places like that, and in places like [San Francisco] we have a real problem on our hands."

He combines politics, business and charitable donations to accomplish his goals. He and his allies are very effective on getting the ground rules and public opinion changed.

It is, if you will, a pretty direct line from the people behind the Observer article to Gregor Robertson, bike lanes, shutting down pipelines, etc.

Fwiw, you may like hunting, bike lanes, Gregor Robertson and you might oppose all pipelines. More power to you and vive le difference.

But make no mistake:

This is article is the product of a well organized, very smart, very effective social change machine that practices politics at a very high level in a very sophisticated manner that leaves mere voting miles behind.

When end we argue about NDP vs BC Liberals vs Cons or Greens we're missing a hell of a good game. Our opponents are running up the score on us. All of us need to give this a great deal of thought. This isn't a bunch of Facebook posting latte sipping Cecil the Lion loving uniformed people who's minds can be changed. It's a much smaller group of people waging a long term, well thought out war to gain the ear of the majority.

Much as as I hate to admit it, there's a phrase you'll hear repeated on several US based hunting podcasts (where they're fighting a tougher battle in many respects, and doing it better than we are) that is becoming more accurate:

"we are only going to be permitted to hunt so long as the wider public perceives it to be acceptable. "


The long term goal, for me, is management of BC wildlife on a scientific basis in order to maximize sustainable and diverse populations, to preserve and enhance hunter opportunity, and that recognizes hunting as a management tool and that also recognizes our traditional and ancestral right to hunt for legitimate purposes.

The he short term goal, though, has to be for hunters to organize effectively in order to win the war for wider public support for wildlife and hunting.

Go ahead. Google both Solomons and Carol Newell. See who we're up against. Then roll over and give up or start figuring out how we're going to maintain our culture.

[Whonnock Boy]

Excellent post Rob. Great find on the comment.

[Rob Chipman]

From the article:


"Ultimately, what it comes down to is whether or not the practice of killing for sport aligns with our values as British Columbians".

We saw the same thing in the CBC interview with Jesse Zeman about bears. Jesse made scientific points. At the end the PHD candidate working for Raincoast said, explicitly, that science was not the proper grounds for making decisions about grizzly bears (yes, that's right, we love science when we're using lot to attack climate change deniers, but it's not appropriate when someone we disagree with uses it).

Two times within one month we've seen anti-hunters say science shouldn't be the grounds for deciding whether hunting is ok. They do this because they will lose the argument on the basis of science. (With the Zeman interview our taxpayer funded broadcaster let the denial of science slide. Yes, you pay taxes so that government scientists can find scientific data, but you also pay taxes so that people can get on the airwaves to plead for us to ignore science. Go figure.)

The other point to note is the use of the term "sport hunting".

We are being defined by our opponents as people who kill for fun, not for a legitimate purpose. Survey after survey finds that the general public supports hunting for food. That's because they see it as a legitimate purpose. Our opponents know that, so they don't acknowledge a legitimate use, and instead make it "killing for sport".

They know very well exactly what they're doing and why. The end game is no hunting. They don't want people liking what they don't like.

[Buck]

Excellent analogy of our opponent .Going to have to step it up a bit in my retorts play their game.General public needs to understand the shell game their being manipulated with.

[Rob Chipman]

Vancouver Observer publishes a piece on ending the grizzly bear hunt.

It's written by Emily Pickett, the director of Wildlife Defence League.

One click takes you to the Wildlife Defence League page.

Two pictures there. Grizzly and wolf.

That page is what's called a "landing page".

From there you click on links. The majority of links lead you to....a call for a cash contribution. They're not trying to save moose or mountain caribou.

If I were to offer a seminar on how to make money online this website and organization would be a pretty damned good example.

As I pointed out above, the Solomons want to use all sorts of tools, including the power of business, big and small, to achieve their goals. This is a cut and dried example of them using a newspaper to disguise a fund raising effort and a news article, when a very good argument can be made that the whole ting, from beginning to end, is fund raising exercise.

[Whonnock Boy]

This is what we all need to do, BUT, we need to do it with respect. Many times I have had people actually delete their comments, or block me because I beat them down with reason, and facts. Populations, cub recruitment numbers, Grizzly recovery programs/areas, ungulate populations, human/bear conflicts, the hypocritical actions of first nations denying bear hunters yet promoting salmon farms, pointing out their emotion based responses, Caribou extinction, hypocritical stances on the effects of industry, how industry enables wolf predation, harvest rates vs. all other mortality, and how we as hunters wish to see balanced populations of all wildlife and if we (anti hunters and aboriginals included) could manage to work together, imagine what kind of change in government thinking we could accomplish if we worked together for a common goal of a healthy habitat and wildlife?

Going to have to step it up a bit in my retorts play their game.

[HarryToolips]

^^^^^^well said Wonnock....

[skibum]

From the article:
"Ultimately, what it comes down to is whether or not the practice of killing for sport aligns with our values as British Columbians".

We saw the same thing in the CBC interview with Jesse Zeman about bears.

Exactly, they know the scientific argument can not be won and the emotion decision is much easier to make.

What they are salivating over is a couple more idiots videoing themselves dancing over a dead bloody bear exclaiming how awesome they are

[Surrey Boy]

Exactly, they know the scientific argument can not be won and the emotion decision is much easier to make.

What they are salivating over is a couple more idiots videoing themselves dancing over a dead bloody bear exclaiming how awesome they are

Anything worth doing is something to be proud of.

[40incher]

It's time to stop aligning resident hunters with the "trophy and sport" terminology ... it's not cool anymore boys!! Let the GOABC stake that ground and fall on their sword!

Whether the issue is hunting, fishing or gathering (berries, firewood, mushrooms, etc ...) why call it sport ... don't confuse sport with fair chase let's just say!!

Think about it ... are sport berry pickers at a higher level than those that pick to harvest for food ... just sayin'!? And how about them trophy berry pickers!

Like I said ... think about it.

[bearvalley]

?..........if we (anti hunters and aboriginals included) could manage to work together, imagine what kind of change in government thinking we could accomplish if we worked together for a common goal of a healthy habitat and wildlife?

That is the goal to shoot for....we just need to keep in mind that WDL mentality is within BC's beuracrates to an extent. Also a select few of the anti shit disturbers are going to do their very best to keep fanning the fire.
Thats what puts cash in their pockets.

[Bugle M In]

This is what we all need to do, BUT, we need to do it with respect. Many times I have had people actually delete their comments, or block me because I beat them down with reason, and facts. Populations, cub recruitment numbers, Grizzly recovery programs/areas, ungulate populations, human/bear conflicts, the hypocritical actions of first nations denying bear hunters yet promoting salmon farms, pointing out their emotion based responses, Caribou extinction, hypocritical stances on the effects of industry, how industry enables wolf predation, harvest rates vs. all other mortality, and how we as hunters wish to see balanced populations of all wildlife and if we (anti hunters and aboriginals included) could manage to work together, imagine what kind of change in government thinking we could accomplish if we worked together for a common goal of a healthy habitat and wildlife?

your bang on....but lately it appears the FN's are with the anti's.
They seem to want no one to hunt...other than themselves.

[Surrey Boy]

your bang on....but lately it appears the FN's are with the anti's.
They seem to want no one to hunt...other than themselves.

And they wonder why nobody likes them. It's pretty funny.

[the force]

Thanks for your posts Chipman. Yes, we do need to work together and up our game to ensure hunting continues to be recognized as socially acceptable, and a possibility for common folk (not just the wealthy like it is over seas). I strongly encourage anyone interested in factual arguments to listen to the meat eater podcasts. Steven Rinnella does a great job of educating and lobbying for hunting.

[Rob Chipman]

^^^Recent podcast talking about Mtn Caribou was very interesting. Newberg also has some great ones on conservation.

[the force]

Cool, I'll check him out. Thanks

[Whonnock Boy]

Do you have an episode number? Any links to Newbers discussions?


^^^Recent podcast talking about Mtn Caribou was very interesting. Newberg also has some great ones on conservation.

[Rob Chipman]

http://www.themeateater.com/podcasts/episode-042-seattle-washington-steven-rinella-talks-with-wildlife-biologist-bart-george-along-with-ryan-callaghan-land-tawney-and-meateaters-janis-putelis/

That's Rinella talking with a wildlife bio just south of the line, working on Mountain Caribou. Interesting insights into predation on caribou, and the dif between bears and wolves.

[Whonnock Boy]

Excellent. Thanks.


http://www.themeateater.com/podcasts/episode-042-seattle-washington-steven-rinella-talks-with-wildlife-biologist-bart-george-along-with-ryan-callaghan-land-tawney-and-meateaters-janis-putelis/

That's Rinella talking with a wildlife bio just south of the line, working on Mountain Caribou. Interesting insights into predation on caribou, and the dif between bears and wolves.

[two-feet]

http://www.themeateater.com/podcasts/episode-042-seattle-washington-steven-rinella-talks-with-wildlife-biologist-bart-george-along-with-ryan-callaghan-land-tawney-and-meateaters-janis-putelis/

That's Rinella talking with a wildlife bio just south of the line, working on Mountain Caribou. Interesting insights into predation on caribou, and the dif between bears and wolves.

found this to be excellent, as are most things from Rinella.

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/conservation-matters-podcast/id1103982317?mt=2&i=374538146

here is shane mahoney on cecil the lion and trophy hunting

[Ohwildwon]

New B.C. charity founded to protect province’s grizzly bearshttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/new-bc-charity-founded-to-protect-provinces-grizzly-bears/article31769886/

Anyone plan on attending one of these forums?

Be nice to rebuttal some of their claims...

Glass half full, educate more people on hunting and conservation?

[Whonnock Boy]

That is interesting to say the least. They're willing to talk with hunting organizations, so it can't be all that bad. :|


New B.C. charity founded to protect province’s grizzly bears

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/new-bc-charity-founded-to-protect-provinces-grizzly-bears/article31769886/

Anyone plan on attending one of these forums?

Be nice to rebuttal some of their claims...

Glass half full, educate more people on hunting and conservation?

[Ohwildwon]

That is interesting to say the least. They're willing to talk with hunting organizations, so it can't be all that bad. :|

Yes, be nice bcwf had a spokesperson @ each one!

Be interesting to see if goabc show up as well...

And perhaps someone from Bella Coola..:???:

[Rob Chipman]

I'll go if I'm back from moose hunting.

From the website (http://grizzlybearfoundation.com/inquiry.html)
INQUIRY DATES:

September 27, 2016 Cranbrook, BC
September 28, 2016 Prince George, BC
September 29, 2016 Fort St John, BC
October 18, 2016 Vancouver, BC
October 19, 2016 Prince Rupert, BC
October 20, 2016 Victoria, BC

[Surrey Boy]

I think it's important to show how trophy hunting is not exclusive to wealthy people. Any kid with an SKS on a bicycle can get a huge rack or hide, and many do.

The other part is wildlife management. If we take deer and salmon, we need to take bears in equal ratio to keep the food pyramid in balance, especially since predators target livestock in hard years.

[Darksith]

I firmly believe if we continue to look at the NDP as an opponent or an enemy we will surely lose the gbear hunt. We need to start planting seeds, as this article is doing. Talking to NDP candidates, attempting to get them in our corner in order to win their seat. We are a voting body to be considered but if we are hostile, when they do eventually regain power we don't want to be the enemy. We can speak to economics, sustainability and look to let them understand we are more than just hunters.

[Whonnock Boy]

Conversations with the NDP regarding Grizzly bears have been happening for a while now.


I firmly believe if we continue to look at the NDP as an opponent or an enemy we will surely lose the gbear hunt. We need to start planting seeds, as this article is doing. Talking to NDP candidates, attempting to get them in our corner in order to win their seat. We are a voting body to be considered but if we are hostile, when they do eventually regain power we don't want to be the enemy. We can speak to economics, sustainability and look to let them understand we are more than just hunters.

[tigrr]

It may be the end of trophy hunting. But it will not be the end of grizzly shooting if there are too many around. 7 moved in close last hunting season.

[tuner]

I firmly believe if we continue to look at the NDP as an opponent or an enemy we will surely lose the gbear hunt. We need to start planting seeds, as this article is doing. Talking to NDP candidates, attempting to get them in our corner in order to win their seat. We are a voting body to be considered but if we are hostile, when they do eventually regain power we don't want to be the enemy. We can speak to economics, sustainability and look to let them understand we are more than just hunters.
Can you name a Canadian political party that is any more hostile to hunters and hunting in general?