calling an elk vs. calling a moose... any tips or tricks to share?!

[Logan]

I have spent a fair amount of time researching and calling for moose, with what I believe to be a reasonable amount of success. But i'm getting stumped with what to do for elk calling. There is so much conflicting information every time I google one thing I end up questioning the last 5 things I just read lol.

What type of duration should I be looking at between calls? If I bugle and get a response should I head in the direction I hear it from or do I wait and hope the bull comes to me, at what point do I start using cow calls? should I use calf calls or cow calls first?...

I know this is as broad a question as my internet searches, and I will probably get a range of responses for what has worked for each individual but I appreciate any information I can work in to my practicing as September is approaching quickly and I wanna be prepared!

I bought a Power Bugle and a Primos Hoochie mama calf and cow call package.... I also understand scent can play a big part, covering my own scent is something I do already as best I can, but should I be investing in the various scent attractants on the market or is that a waste?

Anyways thanks in advance for any piece of advice I might tailor to my approach this fall!

[bassplayer]

I'm fairly new to elk hunting myself. I've yet to take my first bull but the one thing i do know for sure about elk hunting from what i've witnessed personally in the field is that they don't think with their dicks like moose do. Just because they are rutting, doesn't necessarily mean they will be easily fooled with cow calls and bugles. I've had a few bulls get the drop on me and kick me to the curb. Sometimes it's like they have a sixth sense and know you are there. I've read tons of stories about bugling bulls and how they scream back at you and come charging in right away and then you pull the trigger. I wish it was that easy. One of the videos that's been helping me is Elk Hunters Training Day by Glen Berry. You should be able to find it on Youtube. I used to own the DVD but my dog decided she liked it more than me. Glen will teach you the different sounds to use for calling elk. It's not all about screaming bugles. They use a whole variety of sounds to communicate with each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YOUXBpVkxs

[two-feet]

Check out randy newberg on youtube. Lots of info

[Hillbros_96]

Welcome to the joys of calling elk. Each situation is different, and there is no right answer or wrong answer. I bugle every 10 minutes and wait for the fun to begin. If I get a reply I continue to bugle and direct the elk in the direction I want him to come in on. The bloody things are smart enough to come in at the direction you face the call (I use mouth reads). The distance they are away can be very deceiving so I never go after them, I let them come after me. I use cow calls as I walk throw the bush to ease them in the noise I am making, I find it helps a little as long as I don't get busted by scent.

My my best time calling elk was my most frustrating, I had a bull in a alfalfa field at a hundred yards away (I was bow hunting) he was skylined and he wouldn't come any closer, no matter what I tried. As soon as I bugged he would bugle right back angry and mad, but wouldn't come closer. Cow calls did nothing for him as he was looking for the fight. You could watch him moving the cows away from me, then coming back towards me to bugle.

i have also called in other hunters, so you have to be carefull. My personal favorite was you could hear his quad start up after every time he returned my bugle. So once he got close I stopped bugling.

[allan]

Points that I've learned...
- during pre rut use a bugle to locate bulls and go after them. If a bull is vocal . Cut off his bugle with your own. It gets him riled up.
- in pressured areas call sparingly
- during the rut if you are after a big bull and they all have harems already it will be detrimental to bugle too much a big bull with cows will simply push his cows away from a challenger.
- if you locate a group of cows there will be a bull with them. Get as close as you can using cow calls sparingly to keep track of the herd. (My personal best is 20 yards ) then let out a bugle. The heard bull will rush to challenge you before he decides to push his cows out of the area. This method is my preferred way to hunt during the day when the herd is bedded in an area you can hear them but can't see them during the day. I've had good success getting close to the Bulls this way but with archery gear the bull has never been able to present a clean shot at 25 yds or less. It's my most incredible rush to hear that herd bull busting trees and breathing hard as he comes tearing into you!!

[Bugle M In]

Points that I've learned...
- during pre rut use a bugle to locate bulls and go after them. If a bull is vocal . Cut off his bugle with your own. It gets him riled up.
- in pressured areas call sparingly
- during the rut if you are after a big bull and they all have harems already it will be detrimental to bugle too much a big bull with cows will simply push his cows away from a challenger.
- if you locate a group of cows there will be a bull with them. Get as close as you can using cow calls sparingly to keep track of the herd. (My personal best is 20 yards ) then let out a bugle. The heard bull will rush to challenge you before he decides to push his cows out of the area. This method is my preferred way to hunt during the day when the herd is bedded in an area you can hear them but can't see them during the day. I've had good success getting close to the Bulls this way but with archery gear the bull has never been able to present a clean shot at 25 yds or less. It's my most incredible rush to hear that herd bull busting trees and breathing hard as he comes tearing into you!!

good advice right there^^^

[todbartell]

Use the bugle to locate a bull. A shrill high pitch note will reach a long ways and if you get a vocal response, head that way and get the wind in your favor. Wind is crucial, if you have it wrong nothing else will turn the situation around. The scent attractants can probably be effective but the elk will always be able to pick up your human scent amongst the elk urine, so they won't help you if you're sitting next to the smoke stick elk pee doobie. Your calls will always be more effective the closer you are to the elk, so sneak in silently downwind of where you figure the bull was and once inside 100/200y I would make some cow/calf calls. Just a few and sit tight and listen for the bull. He may bugle, but it's very possible he will just chuckle. This means he's interested. Also very likely that he will just start to rake a tree to display for you (the cow).

Try to stay calm and keep tabs on the wind. If it's changed you need to move NOW to get it blowing from the bull to you. In thick timber you can get away with lots of movment even when inside 100y of a bull. Break twigs, crash through brush, you'll naturally sound like an elk. They don't sneak like a deer. He'll have you pegged to exactly where you are and calling from, but in the timber he'll have to come in to see you. Elk want to see you first, hear you second and smell you third. So if you're out of sight of the bull but he knows theres a cow nearby (you) he will come in to look. If he can't see you he will vocalize and try to call you to him. If you (the cow) is being stubborn he revert back to #1 (visual) and come in to a distance where he knows he should see you. This is why people complain about a bull hanging up and not coming in. Think about it - he's not seeing the cow (you) and he knows exactly where she should be. They'll then swing downwind to smell her (you) - this is where hunting with a partner can be very advantageous. They set up 100y downwind of the shooter, and the bull will walk right by. Shooter doesn't call unless it's to stop a bull in an opening for a shot.

[whitetailsheds]

I have spent a fair amount of time researching and calling for moose, with what I believe to be a reasonable amount of success. But i'm getting stumped with what to do for elk calling. There is so much conflicting information every time I google one thing I end up questioning the last 5 things I just read lol.

What type of duration should I be looking at between calls? If I bugle and get a response should I head in the direction I hear it from or do I wait and hope the bull comes to me, at what point do I start using cow calls? should I use calf calls or cow calls first?...

I know this is as broad a question as my internet searches, and I will probably get a range of responses for what has worked for each individual but I appreciate any information I can work in to my practicing as September is approaching quickly and I wanna be prepared!

I bought a Power Bugle and a Primos Hoochie mama calf and cow call package.... I also understand scent can play a big part, covering my own scent is something I do already as best I can, but should I be investing in the various scent attractants on the market or is that a waste?

Anyways thanks in advance for any piece of advice I might tailor to my approach this fall!

Hey Logan, after a couple years of mixed responses bugling, I've more or less quit bugling period!! I'll bugle early in the morning to stir up, or locate a bull, but then stop!!
After I've got a response, I will start cow calling, and start making my way towards the bull......keeping the wind/ breeze in mind!!
I use 2 hand held cow/ calf calls (Hoochie and a Squeeze-Me), 2 different diaphrams, a Sleezy, and lastly, an E.L.K Inc bite-down cow/calf call!
I have had far more success sounding like a herd of cows than I have bugling!!
The only other time I would bugle is after I've had bulls stand their ground with cows and stop a retreat looking for a fight, rather than rounding up his cows and taking off!! I have charged in on two of these bulls......wind in my face, bugling/ chuckling/grunting all the while breaking sticks, crashing/ banging trees on the way in!! Two bulls taken less than 30 yards!!

[HighCountryBC]

I used to be one of those cautious, "let them come to me guys" and had countless opportunities fail when bulls lost interest in my calls. Finally got sick of bulls rounding up their cows and bugling as they headed away from me. Since I have become more aggressive my shot opportunities have increased ten-fold.

Elk aren't like deer, they're loud. If a bull bugles back at me, I move into his bedroom as quickly as possible, noise is the last thing on my mind. Calls from inside 100yds will usually end up with an aggressive response.

That being said, if I have a bull interested in my cow calling, I will set up and let him come in. Our crew usually hunts in pairs with the caller situated 100yds or so behind the shooter. This is a great way to evaluate a bull if you're looking for something that throws up some numbers over just the first legal bull you call in.

Diaphragms are the most versatile out there. Learn to make and understand the multiple sounds elk make and you'll have a fun elk season. Good luck!

[Logan]

I cant thank all you guys enough! I think I've got some real info to work with now, i'm feeling a lot more confident going into this hunt than I did before. I still think if I get one luck is going to play a major part, but at least I have some groundwork to build off of without having to make 10 million mistakes.

Once again, BIG thanks to everyone who shared a bit of their knowledge I appreciate it a lot. If I bring one home this year I'll owe it in part to all you guys!

[todbartell]

for you guys who have a hard time using mouth diaphragm calls check out the Reel Elk calls from Colorado. They sound great and are supposed to work well when wet, unlike most external reed calls. I ordered one last week and look forward to using it. If you use the discount code jayscott you'll save 20%

http://www.elkreel.com/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7eOfOnlKtg

[.264winmag]

Points that I've learned...
- during pre rut use a bugle to locate bulls and go after them. If a bull is vocal . Cut off his bugle with your own. It gets him riled up.
- in pressured areas call sparingly
- during the rut if you are after a big bull and they all have harems already it will be detrimental to bugle too much a big bull with cows will simply push his cows away from a challenger.
- if you locate a group of cows there will be a bull with them. Get as close as you can using cow calls sparingly to keep track of the herd. (My personal best is 20 yards ) then let out a bugle. The heard bull will rush to challenge you before he decides to push his cows out of the area. This method is my preferred way to hunt during the day when the herd is bedded in an area you can hear them but can't see them during the day. I've had good success getting close to the Bulls this way but with archery gear the bull has never been able to present a clean shot at 25 yds or less. It's my most incredible rush to hear that herd bull busting trees and breathing hard as he comes tearing into you!!

In my limited experience, this seems to be right on the $

[todbartell]

Interesting that often the herd bull will get further and further away the more you cow call. Contrary to what most believe it's the cows that will leave and take the bull with them. Dominant cows in a small herd often will not want to deal with aggressive, vocal, obnoxious cow elk (you) moving in on them and their bull. Like bulls, cows have a hierarchy and introducing new cows into their herd will create confrontation and that's probably not what the cows want. Kinda like a drunk loud mouth random chick horning in on a group of ladies and their man at the bar . The guy might be interested in banging, but he might follow his harem to the next bar and leave her in the dust

[.264winmag]

I've sucked a couple herd bulls away from his cows with cow calls, just can't help the fact that he might be leaving some tail behind? Generally later in the season though when perhaps most have been bred? I've seen similar situation where the bugle is used and they all take off...

[Bugle M In]

Interesting that often the herd bull will get further and further away the more you cow call. Contrary to what most believe it's the cows that will leave and take the bull with them. Dominant cows in a small herd often will not want to deal with aggressive, vocal, obnoxious cow elk (you) moving in on them and their bull. Like bulls, cows have a hierarchy and introducing new cows into their herd will create confrontation and that's probably not what the cows want. Kinda like a drunk loud mouth random chick horning in on a group of ladies and their man at the bar . The guy might be interested in banging, but he might follow his harem to the next bar and leave her in the dust

It's the "lead cow" that often times busts ya!
You gotta keep an eye out for her.

[bassplayer]

It's the "lead cow" that often times busts ya!
You gotta keep an eye out for her.
I just heard about the lead cow a couple of years ago. I always thought for the longest time that it was the bull that wore the pants in the herd.

[todbartell]

I read that the average age of a breeding bull will be in the 3.5 - 6.5 year old range. Cows on the other hand can live up to 15 years. Which will be a more intelligent and 'call shy' animal?

[Bugle M In]

I had chased a bull with a harem of cows for 4 days once.
Originally, I came around a bend, and saw 3 cows and a calf, only 20 yrds away, just after noticing some fresh prints.
I thought to myself...hmmm, wonder if there is a bull around?
So, I let out a bugle.
Instantly, I got a reply, from just over a hill hump on the other side, no more than 100 yards away from me.
I instantly crawled on all 4's, towards the hump, and not wanting to spook the cows.
These cows never moved, and I thought to myself, screw it, get up and walk slowly.
No sooner did I stand up, than over the hump, comes this bull at full charge.
Well, he slams on the brakes, only 8 feet away from me, and before I could get a 6pt count, he swung around and was off,
him and the cows.
For 3 more days, I pursued them, but each day, I ended up pushing them further back, km by km.
In the morning of the 3rd day, the bull had holed up in some timber along the river.
I would bugle, he would respond, even chuckle, but wouldn't come out.(he had his cows, and I assume he thought he was a safe
distance from me)
Anyways, in the evening, I decided to get ahead of them, and bugled my ass off, way ahead of them in the direction I had been
pushing them.
Just before dark, he started to respond, still in the same spot as that morning.
My thought was to have him hang up there for another night, and I would come in the a.m., when it was still dark.
I would not bugle, or cow call, and had hoped that maybe, they might be out on the river grazing.
Well, it worked, I waited 100yrds from the river, til 1st light, made sure the wind was right, and than sneaked down for a peek.
Several meters before the river bank, I saw 9 elk standing/grazing out on the other side of the river.
But, I couldn't see the Bull?
I thought maybe he was more around the bend, where I was unable to see, so I would need to get another 10 yrds down to
the river.
Well, that took nearly forever, as there was one cow, who seemed to be on high alert, and had a 6th sense, and just kept staring
in my direction...the wind was in my face, no way she could smell me, but she just knew.
It took me forever to even move a finger because of her.
Than in the middle of the group, a head raises with antlers... a 6 pt.
But, he had no clue I was there, he just kept raising his nose to catch the wind from upriver blowing down to him.
This was the area I was the night before, where I bugled at him till dark.
It still took 5 minutes to raise my rifle to my shoulder.....why...
Because that cow just wouldn't stop looking in my direction, meanwhile every other cow, would from time to time,
raise there heads from feeding, and look here and look there, but had no clue either.
That lead cow hadn't seen me...I know she hadn't....no way, but she still knew??!!
Bulls aren't dumb, and it is amazing how such a big animal, can appear and disappear in an instant.
A smart Bull, will circle around you to get your scent.
I know another member stated they use their eyes 1st, smell 2nd, hearing 3rd.
For the most part, I agree with that, but every now and than, you will get a bull, who circles downwind.
But bulls generally seem to be more interested in getting cows or keeping them.
The lead cow, could care less, she is there to watch out for every one.
And if the lead cow wants to go "over there", she goes and the rest follow, and the bull follows them!
Bit of a long story there, but, I think it gives perspective on who is the intelligent one of the 2 genders.

[bassplayer]

That makes sense Bugle M. Last fall i had this one non legal 5x4 that kept coming in to my spot with a couple of cows as i use a blind. I also had a bigger herd that would stop in at my spot. However. It was all cows that came in. Must of been 15 of them. The bull stayed down below out of sight and i could hear a lone cow down there chirping near him. She wouldn't come out to join the other cows so i'm guessing she was the lead cow that prevented the bull from stepping out in front of me.

[leadpillproductions]

How often are you guys cow calling as your walkin threw timber , when your not hearing any bulls answer?

[Bugle M In]

How often are you guys cow calling as your walkin threw timber , when your not hearing any bulls answer?

I'll cow call for a couple of minutes, and than stop for 15 minutes.
One thing though, I will stay in one place at times all day or, I will at least stay 1 hour in a spot.

Noticing that a lot of bulls come in "Silently", and sometimes they come in on their own time...some
asap...some wait till almost dark....some walk in at mid day!!??

If you see "fresh sign", or a very active area, than I tend to stay put, and locate in an area that the wind is in my
favor, that is...I am guessing where the elk are hanging in before set up.

[GoatGuy]

Bugle til you get a response, make sure you are downwind, move towards bull as quickly as humanely possible (don't run with a loaded gun) - once you get in really close let 'er rip.


Hold onto your hat.

Don't worry about making noise.

Not a big elk hunter, but that's the way we do it...... seems to work.

[leadpillproductions]

Had a bull sat come in silent at 30yards for 10 mins and i couldnt see him . So frustrating lol . Then he busted me

[HighCountryBC]

Bugle til you get a response, make sure you are downwind, move towards bull as quickly as humanely possible (don't run with a loaded gun) - once you get in really close let 'er rip.


Hold onto your hat.

Don't worry about making noise.

Not a big elk hunter, but that's the way we do it...... seems to work.

Bingo.

This is how it's done if you want to increase your shot opportunities. I use to do a lot more cow calling. Bulls come in slowly and much more alert when coming into cow calls and many hang up where a shot isn't possible.