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blackbart
07-20-2016, 06:26 PM
Kamloopshunter appealing quasi-guilty court decision
KamloopsThis Week
Tuesday,July 19, 2016

By TimPetruk
The Crownwants a B.C. Supreme Court judge to keep a Kamloops hunter accused of poachinga record-setting sheep in the Yukon from appealing the decision of a lowercourt last year that said he was guilty - sort of.
In Octoberof 2015, Kamloops provincial court Judge Stella Frame issued a ruling statingthe Crown had proven beyond a reasonable doubt its case against Abe Dougan, whostood trial on 12 poaching charges. Frame followed that ruling immediately withanother decision, issuing judicial stays of proceedings on all counts -effectively tossing the charges and allowing Dougan to walk out of thecourtroom without sanction.
The chargeswere thrown out, Frame said, because the Crown took too long to bring them totrial. Dougan's record-setting Dall sheep was killed in 1999. He was charged in2012 and the trial didn't begin until the summer of 2014.
The Crowninitially filed to appeal Frame's decision to stay the charges, which wasfollowed by a cross-appeal from Dougan. The Crown withdrew its appeal in March,but Dougan's appeal is still on the books.
On Tuesday,Crown prosecutor Mark Erina asked B.C. Supreme Court Justice Sheri Donegan toshut down Dougan's appeal before it starts.
Dougan isappealing his conviction, Erina said, but he was never convicted. ThoughFrame's ruling stated the Crown had proven its case, she stopped short ofentering convictions on Dougan's record - presumably because she knew the staysof proceedings were coming.
It hascreated an unusual situation.
"Forthe purposes of determining Mr. Dougan's appellate rights, there is noconviction against which he can appeal," Erina said. "There's ajudgment out there which essentially says he's guilty. I don't think that'swhat he wanted with his stay of proceedings."
Dougansought judicial stays of proceedings due to delay. His lawyer filed theapplication to Frame and did the majority of the arguing over the six courtdays it took to hear it.
"It'sa remedy he sought - the benefit, but also the burden," Erina said."That's a choice he made. The judicial stay has to go before Mr. Dougancan appeal."
Court heardFrame's decision stating the Crown had proven its case against Dougan couldmake it impossible for him to re-establish his career as a hunting guide.Dougan's Big Boar Outfitters is not listed in the member directory of the GuideOutfitters Association of B.C.
"Thisfinding has significant ramifications for him as a guide outfitter,"defence lawyer Kevin Church said. "This is what he does. He is a guideoutfitter."
Church saidconservation authorities can look at such issues in determining whether Dougancan work as a hunting guide.
"Theregional manager can consider if a person in Mr. Dougan's situation isconvicted of an offence under the [Wildlife] Act . . . or another cause thatthe regional manager feels reasonable," he said. "Mr. Dougan'slivelihood certainly depends on his guide outfitter certificate."
Erina saidDougan's stays of proceedings were "tantamount to an acquittal," butChurch argued against that.
"Thisisn't an acquittal," he said. "This is Judge Frame saying the Crownproved its case beyond a reasonable doubt."
Doneganreserved her decision on Tuesday. A date for her judgment has not been set.
Dougan wascharged following a high-tech investigation on the part of Yukon conservationauthorities that used 3D mapping software to locate a mountain range seen inthe background of a picture in a big-game hunting record book.
The photoof Dougan and the trophy sheep was published in the Big Game Records of B.C.record book. Dougan claimed the record-setting Dall sheep was killed in aspecific area in northwest B.C. in which he was allowed to hunt.
Using 3Dmapping software, investigators in the Yukon were able to find a perfect matchfor the photo's backdrop 18 kilometres north of the B.C./Yukon border - an areahe was not supposed to have been hunting.
In 2011,investigators flew a helicopter to the Yukon location they found with themapping software. They took a photograph of the backdrop, which was entered asevidence during Dougan's trial to be compared to the photo from the recordbook.
The photosbear a number of striking similarities.
Therecord-setting sheep isn't the only animal that has landed Dougan in hot legalwater. He's slated to stand trial in November in Williams Lake on three chargesdating back to 2013 - hunting wildlife within six hours of being airborne,unlawful possession of dead wildlife and failure to accompany a person guided.
Last year,he was convicted in a Yukon court on charges alleging he wasted meat fromsheep, caribou and moose killed in 2011 and hunted too soon after beingairborne. In that instance, Dougan was leading a Wyoming hunter looking forstone sheep.
TheAmerican hunter was fined $11,500 and barred from hunting in the Yukon for 10years. Dougan was fined $15,000 and given a 20-year ban on hunting in theYukon.

Whonnock Boy
07-20-2016, 06:32 PM
Some people will stop at nothing to cover up their deceit and lies. He's gotten off pretty easy, but that's not good enough, so he will waste more of our money, and precious conservation services and court time.

Stone Sheep Steve
07-20-2016, 07:04 PM
Scum. I think it may be time for an HBC poll.

primmed99
07-20-2016, 07:59 PM
Hard hunter but poor choices

604Stalker
07-20-2016, 08:14 PM
Hes not a hunter. Hes a poacher. If this was any of us we would loose our privilege for life and our gear why should he get any different treatment.

Cyrus
07-21-2016, 06:21 AM
poacher with a long list of convictions already who got away with it...if he is trying to clear his name somehow this wont work. Wonder how many other acts of poaching he comitted and got away with.Did he get the mount back i wonder???

Brambles
07-21-2016, 06:55 AM
Didn't the mount magically go missing before the authorities could collect it?

bc_buckshot
07-21-2016, 07:03 AM
Funny how his name came up. I was bored one day and watched some hunting videos on YouTube. Ran into a recently cougar hunt and in the credits his name came up in credits. I thought he was already committed of a crime committing a cougar and was banned for couple years. Will look for that video

two-feet
07-21-2016, 07:07 AM
This whole thing gives me a rash. The guy should be in jail for repeated, serious offences to our wildlife. He gives us ALL a bad name and he embodies everything that can go wrong with an unscrupulous poacher.

wideopenthrottle
07-21-2016, 07:31 AM
Didn't the mount magically go missing before the authorities could collect it?
yes....now that you mention it, I remember seeing a thread on it quite some time ago....

Xenomorph
07-21-2016, 07:36 AM
Some people will stop at nothing to cover up their deceit and lies. He's gotten off pretty easy, but that's not good enough, so he will waste more of our money, and precious conservation services and court time.

Wouldn't a civil suit clamp his mouth once and for all? BCWF or a group of us, there's plenty of evidence, we are the custodians and active managers of wildlife, we can do this privately and not rely on the Crown to solve our problems.

Xenomorph
07-21-2016, 07:41 AM
Hard hunter but poor choices

Absolutely, it's a shame he's done this, I mean he really did get the world record and probably hundreds more animals most of us only dream of. Someone must have wanted him badly to put together so much time and effort into research and building a case after more than a decade. But then again, convictions and bans all over the place. It's a shame he's done this to himself, and to the perception of the GO and hunters by the general public.

j270wsm
07-21-2016, 08:54 AM
I hope he goes back to a higher level of court and they over throw the previous ruling and convict him and then sentence him to a life time ban from guiding and 20+ yrs with out being allowed to hunt or posses firearms

GoatGuy
07-21-2016, 09:01 AM
Absolutely, it's a shame he's done this, I mean he really did get the world record and probably hundreds more animals most of us only dream of.

This is not an isolated incident.

Been convicted and is also in court for another issue.

Ltbullken
07-21-2016, 09:10 AM
The best predictor of future behaviour is ...past behaviour...

Xenomorph
07-21-2016, 09:50 AM
This is not an isolated incident.

Been convicted and is also in court for another issue.


I read the article and the convictions in Yukon. Unbelievable!

bc_buckshot
07-21-2016, 10:28 AM
If anyone here knows much info regarding him tell me is he banned from hunting no regarding his biggest case regarding the sheep but other offenses. Some articles mention he has been convicted in the past and been banned for couple year and I came across a hunt he has a part in dated Jan 2016 and on a cougar hunt on youtube.

https://youtu.be/GKxB2HpfbPs

primmed99
07-21-2016, 07:36 PM
lol banning a true poacher won't do squat……they hunt harder at that point and they don't even have to buy a licence, they will probably make a movie about it and he will get rich

Cyrus
07-21-2016, 07:55 PM
This is not an isolated incident.

Been convicted and is also in court for another issue.

gonna guess when you are a bonafide poacher like him then the CO service probably have you at the top of the list for poachers to watch...

GoatGuy
07-21-2016, 08:15 PM
gonna guess when you are a bonafide poacher like him then the CO service probably have you at the top of the list for poachers to watch...
Nearly impossible to catch a poacher - put that into context with all the charges and convictions.........

chilcotin hillbilly
07-22-2016, 05:08 PM
I myself as a outfitter would prefer he loose his license for 25 years.
To many time he has been caught how many more times has he got away with it. Abe is also the # 1 reason the guides lost permits for cats in region 5.
Those permits given to outfitters along the Fraser River should have continued, if nothing else for the sheep and muley populations. One bad apple is never a good thing.

chutineshooter
07-28-2016, 10:20 PM
he has been hard at it right up to last fall anyway

walks with deer
07-28-2016, 10:37 PM
He lives in kamloops so does kevin van Damme
kevin is a very effecient knowledgeable officer..that likes to track..I don't think he will be doing anything illigal right now.. I think maybe he has made some poor choices but I have had a couple conversations with him before all the laundry came out and have seen him with clients he was pretty honest with me and did not try to push me from his secret area..

BChunter
08-02-2016, 07:53 PM
Abe, Its hard to cut you any slack over the Dall Ram. I hoped it was an honest mistake but the subsequent charges speak for themselves.
I've met your father and he sounded like a nice guy. Your giving your family a bad name over poor or selfish decisions. GOABC may have given you the BOOT! I also understand BC Records could remove all your records from the next book. I'm a life member there and the WSSBC and will be contacting them. Don't want to see your name on records anymore. All of us BC Hunters have had to resist temptation in the field sooner or later. Get your "shit together".

chutineshooter
08-10-2016, 07:17 AM
He has been flying out of telegraph creek for years, stays with Rick and every time he comes he has a new BUDDY..... With him

Bugle M In
08-10-2016, 08:36 AM
My understanding (though I have never hunted up there)in regards to the Dall Ram, is that the "Terrain" itself makes it pretty
obvious that you are either in BC or in the Yukon.
Spoke to someone who hunted Dalls ALOT, and who has hunted up there.
He said the BC side is relatively flat, compared to the Yukon side of the line.
And most knowledgeable Sheep hunters around there know, that come hunting season, that the Sheep are mainly on the Yukon
side of things.
I don't think that it was a mistake, and I have my doubts that he will stop getting things wrong....IMO.