Spatsizi flights..

[srupp]

I have the number and contacted HARBOR AIR re Spatsizi flight for their Beaver ..does anyone know of any other flight services for spatsizi ???

Thank you..

PM to ssrupp@telus.net

Steven

[jackson13]

nope...there use to be a helicopter pilot in Dease Lake if that is an option.

[7 mag]

You could try Bruce McNaughton @ Dease. I also contacted Harbour Air & although i would.nt come right out & say his price was steep, I dont know if i would be able to hike with out one arm & a leg !

[Buck]

I flew out of Toddogone lake into Spatzizi.I believe the guys name was Murray something office was a log cabin restaurant had showers and gas was a while ago.

[srupp]

ya the prices seemed "very good for him " for us..not so good..

dont need a Beaver flight..and the 1200 pounds of gear it hauls....we are hiking and wont be carrying more than 750 pounds Tops!...:mrgreen:

[pmj]

I believe Buck was refering to Tatogga Lake Resort. My wife and I stayed there a few summers back8). They had a float plane at the dock. Here is info from the BC Parks web site:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/explore/parkpgs/spatsizi.html

Permitted Air Charter Companies for Spatsizi Plateau Wilderness Provincial Park:
North Pacific Seaplanes Float plane base located on Tatogga Lake near Iskut, BC (250) 234-3525 or call Tatogga Lake Resort at (250) 234-3526
Alpine Lakes Air Ltd. Float plane base located on Tyhee Lake near Telkwa, BC (250) 846-9488
Pacific Western Helicopters Ltd. Dease Lake, BC (250) 771-5911
Canadian Helicopters Ltd. Smithers, BC (250) 847-9444
Vancouver Island Helicopters Ltd. Head Office, Sidney, BC (250) 656-3987

[butcher]

You could try old bipolar Bruce all right 771-3232 I believe. cash talks

[Buck]

Yes that is right Tatogga lake his price was very reasonable and they had pay showers when you got back.Nice place to park your vehicle food was good to.

[338 winmag]

I have used Bruce out of Dease , word of advice , listen to what he tells you , heard a funny story couple days ago how a group of hunters were trying to load up his beaver full of gear and he told them it was way too much .They proceeded to tell him how another flight they took last year took the same load , he warned them if he could not take off their gear would not be brought back to the dock .Well you guessed it , his beaver could not get airborne and he then unloaded their stuff into the lake .Moral of story if he tells you your bringing too much gear he is probably right.

[srupp]

Hmmm on our caribou hunt Chuckles AKA ...Bruce asked us ''is that all you are taking "

Steven

[Elkhound]

I believe Doug the pilot in Tatogga is the only one. Don't know what his prices are like now but I think he bought the resort and the plane last year. Where before he was just the pilot. Might influence his pricing

[Tuffcity]

there use to be a helicopter pilot in Dease Lake if that is an option

Ya, an option if you want a record for Wildlife Act infractions...

RC

[Sitkaspruce]

Steve

There is also Clarence of Tsayta Air in Fort St. James. He used to be based out of Black lake as well, which is located on the south east side of Spatsizi. His web site states that he is still in Black lake.
http://www.flightsnorth.com/charters.htm

Check him out.

[brno375]

Nice ram in one of those videos.

[hunter1947]

I pierced a flight a few years ago from Houston into spatsizi ,it was costly ,i think it was $1800.00 return for one person ,i backed out ,to hi of a price for this cowboy.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif.

[srupp]

Doesnt really matter , the pilot REFUSES to fly into OUR lake..will only go to his lakes...ironically surrounded by impassable cliffs I am not capable of getting over..the whole reason for SPENDING $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$"an arm and a leg " as someone else put it was to save my blown out knee for hunting NOT in a sheepless valley surrounded by cliffs..:cry:

Hundreds of hours and 25 years later...6 previous hunts and I have YET to see a full curl ram..I thought winning the LEH for Spatsizzi was the HARD part and before my knee replacement i could get my stoner...doesnt look like its gonna happen.

Sorry for the bitching and whining..I know I wont be sober enough later to complain..SORRY for the rant.

ELMER FUDDRUPPSTER

[BCrams]

I know whats going on rupp ....... check your pm

[srupp]

yes BCRAMS thats what I thought also.......glad some foreigner will get to fly in and shoot OUR sheep....

[wetcoasthunter]

He refused to fly into the lake you chose?? What was his reason behind it? Did he explain why he did not want to go there? What was the pilot's name, why not make him famous, let the Gov know whats going on.

Also, whats the reasoning behind having only a handful of outfits permitted to fly into the park?

This smells alot like GO influence at its worst.

Can someone shed some light on this for me so I can have an informed opinion. Thanks guys.

[Skeena Hunter]

Boy...... lots of speculation here and we could use a little more info to help you out. I have gone into Spatsizi many times, and the # of lakes to land in for sheep is very limited. Cartmel and Coldfish(or Bug too) are the two most common ones. I would find it hard to believe that Harbour air won't take you into either of those. There is another "small" lake south east of cartmel which you can land on if you want to risk life and limb, this may be the one that the pilot is not willing to land on?
Park use permits are required to fly into the park for commercial users and some operators don't want to bother getting one, as some don't do enough business to warrant applying and paying for one. Parks may limit the # as well, but that is just speculation on my part.
Sheep hunting in Spatsizi is not a "walk in the park"(pardon the pun), people think that because it is LEH it must be real good. Some good rams do come out of there, but really there are better(and easier) places to go. But if you want a quality experience in some beautiful country(and rugged) it will give you that. And you should see lots of animals.
Hope you are able to get in there and experience it, but there is a reason that the government puts a disclaimer about access on this draw.
If I can help you out with any info let me know.

[bigwhiteys]

There is another "small" lake south east of cartmel which you can land on if you want to risk life and limb, this may be the one that the pilot is not willing to land on?


I would say thats a very likely reason... There are "other" lakes that pilots won't fly into that sheep hunters seem to think is because of outfitters in the area... When it's actually because the pilot doesn't want to die trying to get them in. Business owners of non-essential services do reserve the right to refuse business do they not? There are quite a few planes permently etched into mountainsides.

I know of one lake where the pilot can take you in with nearly 1000 pounds of gear but can only take off from the lake with 600lbs! That's two guys and your hunting gear let alone 2 more sheep for the ride out.


Park use permits are required to fly into the park for commercial users and some operators don't want to bother getting one, as some don't do enough business to warrant applying and paying for one. Parks may limit the # as well, but that is just speculation on my part.

I am not sure if parks does limit the licenses or not but there is definitely not enough consumer demand to warrant several different outfits. Where there is money, usually there are services that will take it from you.


Some good rams do come out of there, but really there are better(and easier) places to go.

I do not see what the big deal with Spatzizi is...? It's certainly not the only place to find sheep. Book with RiverJet Adventures for example and you're probably looking at around the same ballpark price... You might have a bit of a hike from the river but you'd get into sheep and maybe even see a legal ram!

Hope it all works out for you!

Happy Hunting!
Carl

[Stone Sheep Steve]

These type of "under-the-table" deals are commonplace in the G/O business. Some G/O's use a transporter's service on a regular basis with the agreement that they won't drop off residents at their best areas. Whether payments actually exchange hands is hard to tell.
McNaughten was in cahoots with Bradford's for years until a falling out a couple of years back. Bradford has his own planes so you can guess there was some "other" deal going on. It wasn't even a good idea to mention sheep if you were flying with Bruce and hunting in Bradford's area.

Some G/O's will do just about anyting to keep residents from "THEIR" sheep. I even know one G/O that would plow up the road behind them with a bulldozer once their vehicle was passed:roll:..............:wink:.

It will be interesting to see how the new rules of allocation will change things in a decade or so:???:.

SSS

[bigwhiteys]

Some G/O's will do just about anyting to keep residents from "THEIR" sheep. I even know one G/O that would plow up the road behind them with a bulldozer once their vehicle was passed:roll:..............:wink:.


I have yet to experience that...

Carl

[boxhitch]

I do not see what the big deal with Spatzizi is...?

Thats where the LEH is for, so why not make a big deal of it ? There are sheep in the draw area, and nothing is a free ride, thats expected.
I say lets get all the problems out in the oopen, to help inform other residents. There are lots of draws with good odds, luring the unsuspecting hunter in, and they go under-subscribed once the homework is done. We should do all we can to try do the ground work before the draws, so the interest is a true reflection of hunter effort.
Another example is the Assiniboine draw. 600 entries. How many have ever hiked into that area ? How many realize you can't take a rifle in through the National Park ? Alternate route can be through Alberta ? No packers to hire ?
The stats available for the LEH hunts do not detail actual hunter effort or success rates. I bet many draws see fewer than 30% of recipients in the field.
The LEH system is in for an overhaul. Lets help get it right.

[boxhitch]

I know of one lake where the pilot can take you in with nearly 1000 pounds of gear but can only take off from the lake with 600lbs!

Thats probably not in the sales brochure, either.
Hunters always feel they are gettign the shaft when the pilot says it will take a secon flight to get them out. Usually discussed from the float, at the lake, not before.

[GoatGuy]

I know of one lake where the pilot can take you in with nearly 1000 pounds of gear but can only take off from the lake with 600lbs! That's two guys and your hunting gear let alone 2 more sheep for the ride out.


Many short/high elev sheep likes are like that. Take a full load in and only one guy out - not including his gear.

That's flying - something the operator should be telling clients well before.


Boxhitch, I think you hit the nail on the head for most of that stuff - well done!

[srupp]

I WAS a guide..and also seen plenty of BS with other guiding areas with pilots and such..just a shame..glad to see a "overhaul" long time coming..

Apparantly another group of SPATSIZZI sheep hunters are having the same problems..for $1400 we can get flown into ANYWHERE the guides ALLOW us...as long as it ODESNT get us close to their $28,000 per animal SHEEP !!!!!

I won NOTHING with this SPATSIZZI draw..

Steven Rupp

Steven Rupp

[kutenay]

Well, the alternative to this rip-off of BC resources is pretty obvious, IMO, as the foreign hunters WON'T PAY $28,000 per sheep, IF, non-res. alien hunting for them is banned. THEN, the GOs will not be able to maintain exclusionary agreements with various air charters and WE will have access to OUR wildlife/wilderness.

I might want to go into the Spatsizi and the presence of foreign hunters or ANY foreigners there might impair MY wilderness experience, so, why not keep what IS ours, for ourselves?

[GoatGuy]

I WAS a guide..and also seen plenty of BS with other guiding areas with pilots and such..just a shame..glad to see a "overhaul" long time coming..

Apparantly another group of SPATSIZZI sheep hunters are having the same problems..for $1400 we can get flown into ANYWHERE the guides ALLOW us...as long as it ODESNT get us close to their $28,000 per animal SHEEP !!!!!

I won NOTHING with this SPATSIZZI draw..

Steven Rupp

Steven Rupp

Check your PM's........

[srupp]

unfortunatley stone sheep are THE most limited of the sheep species...and so they cost has exploded..count on close to $30K by the time a guided hunt is done..sorry THATS huge money for the same time frame as a moose or goat or elk hunt,,with the same capital investment for the guide.

Bigwhiteys..I beieve you that you havnt seen this activity by guides I have..as have plenty of sheep hunters hell most hunters in one way or other with Guides...YES there are some remarkable exceptions...and it IS their livlihood..thats part of the reason I picked where I did to land...limited contact and conflict with GAO..

I consider myself a "good and acomplished " hunter there are better and there are less successful hunters I study get top notch gear and put in the time...some of my best accomplishments arent my B&C animals..they are mature adult specimins taken in fair chase ethically during a general open season for that particular species on crown land.

We ALL work hard for our $$$$ in our chosen careers, and its BIG $$$$ and time from our famillies and expendature of our limited holiday selection..also time age and physical health tends to make it more difficult for us old timers than these 22 year old athletic types..awww yes I remember being 22 and tough a nails and in amazing shape..at least i think I remember..:wink:..

I am NOT a whiner..I ENJOY helping others and seeing THEM be successful sort of like when I DID guide...and I thought that the SPATSIZZI draw would allow me a cherished chance at a mature legal stone sheep during open season..I did not count on jacked up prices.."just because they can " nor the indifference by Biologists..LEH dept...parks...on stoopid crap on behalf of the access..."you were warned of limited access" yes..but thats why God created airplanes and horses and packers etc..to overcome these obstacles...anyway..I am finished my rant sorry..:cry:....suck it up and deal with it....IF given a chance.....hmmmmmmmmmm

Steven

[kutenay]

The ...indifference...by bios, etc. is a result of government policy under the current administration and IF you DARE speak out in favour of BC hunters having access to BC wildife, you WILL be in deep doo-doo. I have worked for government resource depts. enough to know this, firsthand.

The only method of changing this is a media campaign as with the Clayoquot, etc., to FORCE Victoria to change the policies that now favour the GOs; I think that it is time to do this.

[WoodOx]

Sounds like its time to buy a little plane with tundra tires. :D

GG - have you landed with tundras, is it killer hard?

[srupp]

DELETED..I was PISSED MAD WHEN i WROTE IT..still am but it wont add anything to the discussion..

[boxhitch]

And the cover-up continues...........

[25tikka]

I believe Doug the pilot in Tatogga is the only one. Don't know what his prices are like now but I think he bought the resort and the plane last year. Where before he was just the pilot. Might influence his pricing


As I have said here before I am a pilot with North Pacific/Harbour Air.Doug did not buy the lodge or the plane. All of the company is owned/operated by the same people. The lodge is operated independantly from the airline. I have been in the rupert office for 5 years and never refused anyone to charter anywhere that was safe to go dependant on weather, load, type, of aircraft and lake lenght and elevation etc. There are a lot of factors in a decision to take a group to a very remote location including the ability to get them back out safely. Sometimes the way out includes a hike to a lower or longer lake or staging flights which certainly cost more money. There is no POLITICAL influence to deny service. As for the increase in cost, just look at the pump prices of fuel. We burn a lot of fuel. Insurance has also increased 3X since 911. That is a huge increase in operating cost. I won't get into the GO debate as it is pointless to comment on a non existent problem.. If you have any specific experience with a no go to your favorite lake.....PM me I will do my best to rectify the problem

[ribber]

WE flew with Bruce last Sept. 15 or so. We loade up his Beaver while a small Grizz. was trying to find our moose meat [about 50 feet away]. Any ways ,Bruce was none too amused that our 2 moose was in quarters, he wants them in eights,and to prove his point he left the cabin door open as we flew back to Dease, and dodged around a bit to shake up the plane and let us know any time he could unload the plane to prove his point BUT!!!! he is an awsome pilot.just don't piss him off.:roll:

[brno375]

I have been in the rupert office for 5 years and never refused anyone to charter anywhere that was safe to go dependant on weather, load, type, of aircraft and lake lenght and elevation etc.

Do you have anything low & slow on bushwheels to land in the alpine with?

[WoodOx]

Tundra tires? Tundra tires?

[25tikka]

Do you have anything low & slow on bushwheels to land in the alpine with?


Not at this time but I have always wanted one....maybe some of us should get together and buy one in a partnership.....it has bee done elsewhere and private owned aircraft are much easier on the wallet

[brno375]

Not at this time but I have always wanted one....maybe some of us should get together and buy one in a partnership.....it has bee done elsewhere and private owned aircraft are much easier on the wallet

I would want to use it commercially to pay for itself and then some.

[Buck]

Thats funny how the pilot left the cabin door open so did our pilot when we flew into Cartmel out of Tatogga.Thought everything was going right out the door.I seem to remember the pilot being abit nervous about flying in there because it is a box canyon bad updrafts i guess.

[boxhitch]

I thought Cartmel was a hike-in ??

[srupp]

Nope Cartmel is a fly in lake....

Steven

[BCrams]

25tiKa

What have you flown and how many hours?

[boxhitch]

http://www.bivouac.com/MtnPg.asp?MtnId=3193

[boxhitch]

http://www.bivouac.com/MtnPg.asp?MtnId=27759

[25tikka]

BCrams..... Ihave about 8000 hrs on various machines. Most small cessnas and the maule m5-235(one of my favorites). C 185 210 337 310 piper navajo and cheiftain, beaver , otter(turbo and piston), bush hawk and the list goes on.....flown a lot on floats and skiis and big (tundra)tires and loved almost every minute of it. I look forward to tomorrow when I do it again on this fine west coast. :-D

[BCrams]

Not too bad! Thanks for the info.

[srupp]

I think one of our moose pilots uses a Maule???Heinze Weiglet..exellent aircraft..and a very experienced pilot..

Steven

[brno375]

Srupp

did you contact the outfitter of the area to see if he would pack you in?

[brno375]

Reg is a good guy, he has given me some great info for hunting Caribou & Grizz in Spatsizi, but would not take a couple resident hunters into his territory to hunt sheep.:lol:

Sounds like discrimination...

[kutenay]

The way to prevent this discrimination and I have experienced it in various regions of the province is to simply ban non-resident alien hunting. NO GO should be allowed to fly in Americans when he refuses the same service to BC residents.

This is getting to be a situation that requires drastic measures to deal with as many GOs just don't get it!

[BCrams]

The way to prevent this discrimination and I have experienced it in various regions of the province is to simply ban non-resident alien hunting. NO GO should be allowed to fly in Americans when he refuses the same service to BC residents.

This is getting to be a situation that requires drastic measures to deal with as many GOs just don't get it!

Whats your opinion with regards to the following:

When the GO won the movement to get rid of 'packer services' to most places and as outfitters became licenced packers themselves, they should fly BC resident hunters in if a person asks.

Say there's an area with dirt air strips. No packers around except for the outfitter. So because he is now a 'packer', I asked about getting flown into one of his strips at a reasonable rate so I could go sheep hunting. I was stonewalled with a flat out no.

If we can have licenced packers back into the fold, I am sure there will be someone who will fly guys into these areas including others.

[kutenay]

My attitude is very simple, if a GO refuses to fly or pack me into his area; then it becomes a matter of discrimination and The BC Human Rights Tribunal must become involved.

The MOE does NOT want to have issues with the HRT and Premier Campbell does not either, as his administrative record demonstrates; the fact is that this is a PERFECT issue to bring needed changes in this situation.

NO BC residents flown into Spatsizi, well, why not lobby publicly to BAN all non-resident alien hunting there, as well? It's time to let these GOs find out that WE own BC and WE will decide who flys and hunts where!

[kutenay]

Your point is valid, from a strictly "dollars and cents" point of view, however, I would question it in the following respects.

First, I understood that the fee, $25,000 or whatever was paid IN ADVANCE, so, the GO gets his money, regardless of the success of the client(s).

Second, WHY should ANY businessperson be allowed to discriminate against ANY BC resident, simply because he wants to save the hunting for his wealthy foreign clients? Should I be able to discriminate against YOU in my business because you are a self-styled "rednecked Irishman"?????

Third, this IS the very crux of what most of us are tired of, the idea that a resident should have to ....find a different area to hunt in because a GO can refuse to sell him the same access as a non-res. client can obtain. This land belongs to us and we should NEVER have to find alternate areas for recreation in order to allow a GO or foreigner to use it.

Actually, I think that ALL Provincial Parks should be "resident hunting only" and NO commercial exploitation should be allowed. I was among the earliest of those who fought to preserve BC wilderness parks and now guys like me should just find another area.....not bloody likely!!!!

Young guys, like you, who desire a life in the GO industry would be wise to realize that the current situation WILL change and VERY soon; supporting GOs who deny access to residents for ANY reason is not in your best interests, no offence intended.

[horshur]

I was Bs'ing with another hunter--spatsizi tag sheep-- pilot won't fly into lake because of three American hunters in there--100000 dollars--such and such same Bullshit.
If access is so dificult than why the hell is it LEH to begin with??? Lotsa info that makes guides look even worse but it is hearsay--I will leave it alone.
Spite the resident hunter and you will get it back.