Help with full curl!

[mudbud]

So I went on my first Stone sheep hunt last year. I saw 30+ rams. I saw many rams at very close range (less the 100 yards) I have excellent optics and found it a difficult task to determine full curl. Many of the sheep seemed to be very borderline. The one ram that I was certainmade it eluded me!! Any hints from the veterans? Anyone shoot by the 8 year rule? what about heavily broomed horns?

[Kechika]

Not to sound like a dick but if you cant tell wheather or nots its full curl with your optics how are you going to count rings?

[Deaddog]

check out the horn curl education program at the wild sheep society of bc, you may find it helpful
http://www.wildsheepsociety.org/

[srupp]

HMMMM I also better do some more studying....

Steven

[bigwhiteys]

I have excellent optics and found it a difficult task to determine full curl. Many of the sheep seemed to be very borderline.

With even the cheapest optics it's possible to judge Horn Curl from a lot further than 100 yards. Kudo's to you for getting that close! I would look at some of the pictures on outfitters sites to get more familiar as to what a good legal ram looks like.

You obviously got into the sheep now it's time to find their big brothers!

Happy Hunting!
Carl

[mudbud]

Well other then the dick, those are all good comments, and all commen sense stuff. I was able to count rings on several sheep, but hard to tell full curl because I was right on top of the sheep, looking down at about a 80 degree bluff. I found some of the rams had very distinct rings while others didn't. At that angle though I could not see the sheep squarely to determine full curl. The one ram I did see that was legal for sure, was at about 10 yards and damn near ran me and my hunting partner over.....but thats another story.....

[bruin]

Sounds like you've found the honey hole, gotta get the angle though. Like Carl said, check the sites and especially magazines and articles that will confirm the age for you.

[Nimrod]

I've used the 8 year count before, I was almost right over them on a cliff. I counted at 200m through a 30 power , counted like 6 times to be sure, he had lots left after 8 so I hesitantly shoot. gun was zeroed for 300 so I aimed at the ground beside him, bullet hit him 2 inches to left of the spine and exited to the right of the brisket. he was in his 13th year with both tips 31" spread. If it were a beat up 8 I might not have taken the shot.
There were 6 together, after the others decided to leave they walked up a trail on my side of the ravine there was one old boy broomed on one side, and 2 legals (just) I thought at a glance they were 6 year olds from above.
it's the tricky false annuli you have to be careful with...very unnerving

[bcmulie]

Mudbud, that sounds like a lot of the sheep hunts I've been on. The worst thing is, you'll go back there next year thinking that all of those borderline rams must have put on enough growth to make full curl, and just end up running into a bunch of borderline rams again!

It sounds to me like you are doing a lot of things right, and good for you for not taking a chance on one of those borderline rams. You really have to be on the same level as the ram you are looking at in order to determine whether it's legal - that's one of the (many) things that makes sheep hunting so tough. The keys are patience, and planning your stalks so that you will come out on the same level as the sheep (with the wind in your face, preferably the sun at your back, close enough to get a good look, but far enough away and with sufficient cover that you will have plenty of time to judge the sheep before they see you...that's not asking too much, is it?).

I've shot 2 rams based on age. The first was a heavy broomed Stone's sheep. He gave me several minutes at under 50 yards with a 10 power scope. I counted nine rings, and pulled the trigger. The biologist that checked him aged him at 9, but not before I'd had a few sleepless nights (he was definitely short on curl). I told myself I wouldn't shoot another ram based on age after that, but...

The second ram I shot on age was a Dall's sheep up in the Tatshenshinni last year. I spent about 10 hours looking at this ram at distances between 15 and 300 yards. I finally crawled up above him and aged both horns multiple times through a 25x spotting scope at about 25 yards. I figured he was 9, probably 10 years old, and finally pulled the trigger. He was aged at 10 years, and turned out to be easily legal for curl as well (by almost 2" on one side). Unfortunately, despite stalking in on him multiple times I was never able to get a look at him from the side when he was at the same level as me. When I aged him he was bedded almost directly below me.

If you are going to play the aging game, here's a couple of tips:
(1) Practice on as many sheep as you can. You need to be able to distinguish the difference between a genuine and a false annuli. It can be really tough on some rams. The genuine annuli seem to cut into the front of the horn, whereas the false ones aren't definite all the way around the horn, and are far less prominent on the front of the horn. Wild Sheep Society banquets are a great place to see lots of rams, plus there's lots of experienced sheep hunters there who can give you pointers.
(2) Try to get a look at the horns from as many angles as possible. I've found that looking at the back of the horns often shows the annuli most prominently. That's what I did with my Dall's ram.
(3) Rams with light coloured horns are easier to judge, as the annuli stand out much better.
(4) Confirm the age that you've determined based on annuli by using other age indicators. For instance, rams tend to hang out with other rams of a similar age. If the ram you're aging is with a bunch of 5 and 6 year old rams, chances are he's not going to make 8 years. Also think about the ram's position within the group. Dominant rams tend to be older, so typically you should be shooting the lead ram (this is by no means a firm rule - just an indicator).
(5) Give yourself a cushion. If you're going to shoot a ram based on age, shoot one that you've aged at 9 years or more. Shooting a ram that you've aged at 8 years doesn't give you much room for error (none, in fact).
(6) Use great optics - the absolute best you can afford. Counting annuli is tough even with the best, and completely futile with lousy optics.
(7) Above all, be sure before you shoot. The consequences of shooting an underage ram are unpleasant, to say the least. The ministry recommends that hunters not shoot rams based on age for good reason.

Good luck this season.

bcmulie

[Kechika]

Like I said...not trying to be a dick,just curious.Good luck

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Great Tips BCMulie. I especially like #5!

SSS

[boxhitch]

BCM pretty well wraps it up, good points !!
Patience is the key, you have to have the correct view. Sometimes alls you get a look at are the front four, then they move and you count the base four, but hmmm does that add to eight ? or seven ? Then you get the sun for a brighter view.......and the heat waves make things fuzzy.
Its not the end of life, if you have to walk away unknowing, just ends any good sleeps !
The highest natural mortallity accurs amongst the 7-8 yr old rams, due to them doing most of the fighting/fornicating in the fall, and going into winter in poor condition. The strongest survive.

[77hunt]

great advice.i am soaking it all in as i will be doing my first stone hunt this fall. i did purchase good optic for the trip and will be nervous at aging/leagal rams let alone full curl rams. lots of looking and only shoot if you are sure of a legal ram.good luck to everyone

[canadianyoda]

Great stuff BC Muley,
Passed up on a decent buck in the mountains once because I was not sure. Stops hassles, Stone sheep and more gear coming up.

[safarichris]

On many occasions, I have picked the large ram bedded down over a hundred yards away from the main herd of rams. If a young herd of rams are spotted, look around very carefully as the 'big boy' might be just no more than a 100 yards away. They often like to bed alone. You won't be able to miss judge him, when he gets does get up. Clearly the ''main man''.

[ryanb]

I'm far from an expert in sheep hunting, but from understanding basic geometry, if you can see both tips of the horns, and they both appear to break the bridge of the nose, no matter what the angle, the ram should be legal. Correct me if I am wrong.

[bruin]

It can be tough to tell if he breaks his nose if you're directly above him or even at a 45 degree angle. If you think he's close you have to find a position to make the call.

[jackpine]

if you tell me where you were than i'll tell you how to tell if it's a full curl...:-D

[bridger]

after you have a few more hunts under your belt it will become a lot easier. just remember that big rams look big you don't have to spend much time figuring it out. if you have to convince your self the ram is a shooter it probably isn't.. kudo's for being careful. good luck in the future.

[Weatherby Fan]

Well other then the dick, those are all good comments, and all commen sense stuff. I was able to count rings on several sheep, but hard to tell full curl because I was right on top of the sheep, looking down at about a 80 degree bluff. I found some of the rams had very distinct rings while others didn't. At that angle though I could not see the sheep squarely to determine full curl. The one ram I did see that was legal for sure, was at about 10 yards and damn near ran me and my hunting partner over.....but thats another story.....

Hey Mudbud,
Good on you for asking the ? there's no dumb ?s only dumb answers

I went through the very same thing on my first Sheep hunt in Spences Bridge I was hunting with two very experience sheep hunter who both had taken book Rams from the area,one fellow was a stone sheep guide and the other a policeman,we split up in the morning I find four young rams feeding in a very steep draw 80 yards below me and I'm pretty sure one's legal but not positive,I watch them for over an hour,If I shoot an illegal ram hunting with these guy's Ill be the next one with a bullet in me,
frustrated I hike back down to get an expert opinion just when I get back to meet for lunch the guide come's running down the hill and tells me he found four rams in a draw and ones legal,needless to say they were gone by the time we got back up there,

But at least I didn't shoot an illegal Ram,
Hunting with those guys was invaluable and if your on HBC thanks again for all your help.

This site has been awesome to be able to ask the questions and nice to see the professional and very experienced people giving great advice.
I also will be hunting sheep this year again so thanks for the great advice posted on this thread.

[safarichris]

A little trick that worked for me in connecting with a 43 inch stone was somewhat unorthodox in sheep hunting per say. I spotted a very large ram (43) and he was bedded about a 100 yards from the main herd of rams all legal and full curls there were about seven total. We obviously were focused on getting the 43. After some very stealthy moves to get into position, we could see the main herd all bedded down, but not the big boy. I asked my hunter how fast can he do two hundred yards in a bit of a sprint up the mountain. we had to close to 300 yards. We had a two hundred yard move to make. We gambled and exposed ourselves to the main herd, but kept out of sight from the big boy. The main herd was getting up one by one and staring at us. We closed the gap which seemed like an hour , but was only mins. They started to get real nervous and looked for some guidance. Then they started to circle amongst themselves . That is when we dropped and prepared for a shot. We were both huffing and puffing, but waited.
Within 30 seconds the big boy showed and joined the main herd to see what the excitement was all about. He went down with one shot. This is something i would not recommend doing on a regular basis. I just had the gut feeling it would work. it did.

[BiG Boar]

I am sure mudbud is thankful for the help. However this thread is from 2007.

[canadianyoda]

did that once with goats. stampede ensued.