How the LEH draw works in BC

[Buckmeister]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/docs/leh_system.pdf

For anyone who has never heard how the draw actually is done, check out the above link. It is explained very well. Obviously the description in not updated to include the new online application, but the draw should still work the same way regardless.

[Buckmeister]

Interesting, I did not realize that the actual draw itself was done by a private firm. So basically, if you are never drawn, it is because you keep getting assigned a random number that is too high. The system also pretty much screws you for the second choice draw as well. Not sure if I agree with how the second choice draw is done. It seems rather erroneous. Instead of getting passed over on the first choice draw because all the authorizations are filled for your 1st choice, I think the computer should then immediately look at your second choice and see if it is available and award that. However, what really happens is that you are passed over and everyone behind you now has a chance at your choice. Otherwise, it isn't really a "second choice" when you think about it.

Think of it this way. You stand in a long line waiting to get an ice cream cone. Your position in line was decided randomly. Before you line up, you are told to choose the flavor of ice cream you would like, and, to also choose a second flavor in case the first flavor is unavailable. When it is finally your turn you say your 1st choice is chocolate, but they tell you they just ran out of it. Normally, they will ask you if you would like a 2nd choice, vanilla for instance, and then give you that if it is available. But instead they tell you to go stand in the back of the line and wait to go through again. After you reach the front of the line the second time, you ask for vanilla, but they inform you they just ran out of that as well. The vanilla was available the first time you were at the front of the line, but because you were passed over, all the people behind you at that time got a crack at vanilla if that was indeed their 1st choice.

In other words it is NOT really first come first serve.

My suggestions, either allow the 2nd choice to be awarded immediately if it is available, or allow everyone two separate applications per species. I would be in favor of disallowing a successful applicant reapplying for that species for a specified amount of time, say 3 to 5 years. A combination of these suggestions might make for a more even playing field.

[Spy]

Interesting, I did not realize that the actual draw itself was done by a private firm. So basically, if you are never drawn, it is because you keep getting assigned a random number that is too high. The system also pretty much screws you for the second choice draw as well. Not sure if I agree with how the second choice draw is done. It seems rather erroneous. Instead of getting passed over on the first choice draw because all the authorizations are filled for your 1st choice, I think the computer should then immediately look at your second choice and see if it is available and award that. However, what really happens is that you are passed over and everyone behind you now has a chance at your choice. Otherwise, it isn't really a "second choice" when you think about it.

Think of it this way. You stand in a long line waiting to get an ice cream cone. Your position in line was decided randomly. Before you line up, you are told to choose the flavor of ice cream you would like, and, to also choose a second flavor in case the first flavor is unavailable. When it is finally your turn you say your 1st choice is chocolate, but they tell you they just ran out of it. Normally, they will ask you if you would like a 2nd choice, vanilla for instance, and then give you that if it is available. But instead they tell you to go stand in the back of the line and wait to go through again. After you reach the front of the line the second time, you ask for vanilla, but they inform you they just ran out of that as well. The vanilla was available the first time you were at the front of the line, but because you were passed over, all the people behind you at that time got a crack at vanilla if that was indeed their 1st choice.

In other words it is NOT really first come first serve.

My suggestions, either allow the 2nd choice to be awarded immediately if it is available, or allow everyone two separate applications per species. I would be in favor of disallowing a successful applicant reapplying for that species for a specified amount of time, say 3 to 5 years. A combination of these suggestions might make for a more even playing field.
Good post and analogy I agree with you 100%

[Gateholio]

I've always somewhat believed that would be a better way, but the other way to look at it is that you are screwing the guy that really wanted that draw enough to list it as first choice. Which is right? Hard to say.

[Whonnock Boy]

Good explanation Buckmeister. I too have had issue with the way the second choice works, but!!!... A lot of people apply for low odds draws just so they can hopefully get a draw, with not even thinking of those high odds bull draws (specifically island elk). What I believe would happen is, those people who chose better odds over highly coveted, would then put in for those high odds draws, with lower odds draws for a second choice. Instead of 50-100:1 odds, they would sky rocket. At least that is what I believe would happen, thus lessening your chance any ways. Food for thought....

[VLD43]

Interesting, I did not realize that the actual draw itself was done by a private firm. So basically, if you are never drawn, it is because you keep getting assigned a random number that is too high. The system also pretty much screws you for the second choice draw as well. Not sure if I agree with how the second choice draw is done. It seems rather erroneous. Instead of getting passed over on the first choice draw because all the authorizations are filled for your 1st choice, I think the computer should then immediately look at your second choice and see if it is available and award that. However, what really happens is that you are passed over and everyone behind you now has a chance at your choice. Otherwise, it isn't really a "second choice" when you think about it.

Think of it this way. You stand in a long line waiting to get an ice cream cone. Your position in line was decided randomly. Before you line up, you are told to choose the flavor of ice cream you would like, and, to also choose a second flavor in case the first flavor is unavailable. When it is finally your turn you say your 1st choice is chocolate, but they tell you they just ran out of it. Normally, they will ask you if you would like a 2nd choice, vanilla for instance, and then give you that if it is available. But instead they tell you to go stand in the back of the line and wait to go through again. After you reach the front of the line the second time, you ask for vanilla, but they inform you they just ran out of that as well. The vanilla was available the first time you were at the front of the line, but because you were passed over, all the people behind you at that time got a crack at vanilla if that was indeed their 1st choice.

In other words it is NOT really first come first serve.

My suggestions, either allow the 2nd choice to be awarded immediately if it is available, or allow everyone two separate applications per species. I would be in favor of disallowing a successful applicant reapplying for that species for a specified amount of time, say 3 to 5 years. A combination of these suggestions might make for a more even playing field.

I would suggest that one way to give others a better chance would be to put a longer reduced odds on some of the premier hunts. Some of the Sheep and Elk hunts have very high subscription rates and high odds. I don't know how many times I have heard guys suggesting that they have not been draw for Elk or Sheep over a 10, 20 or 25 year period. But I have heard from some who have been drawn 2 or 3 times over the same period. As these hunts are in such demand, maybe they should be put on a list of hunts that, once won you have to wait 5 or 10 years before you can apply again. That being said, some hunts like Kamloops sheep are a once in a lifetime draw. In a perfect world it would be nice to see everyone get a crack at an Island Elk before the repeat customers. I know I'm dreaming

[Buckmeister]

I've always somewhat believed that would be a better way, but the other way to look at it is that you are screwing the guy that really wanted that draw enough to list it as first choice. Which is right? Hard to say.

Another thought is to take the 2nd choice part of the draw and re-randomize the applications once the 1st choices are done.


Good explanation Buckmeister. I too have had issue with the way the second choice works, but!!!... A lot of people apply for low odds draws just so they can hopefully get a draw, with not even thinking of those high odds bull draws (specifically island elk). What I believe would happen is, those people who chose better odds over highly coveted, would then put in for those high odds draws, with lower odds draws for a second choice. Instead of 50-100:1 odds, they would sky rocket. At least that is what I believe would happen, thus lessening your chance any ways. Food for thought....

Good point, I agree that certain hunts may in fact sky rocket in odds. However, it could also take pressure off some of the mid range or local hunts and give the hometown boys a chance one in awhile.

[Whonnock Boy]

IMO, I doubt that would happen. Besides, we shouldn't have a nimby attitude towards hunting. ;)

However, it could also take pressure off some of the mid range or local hunts and give the hometown boys a chance one in awhile.

[Skull Hunter]

I'm not particularly upset about how the 2nd choice hunts are handed out, I think that parts fine. I don't think the reduced odds are handled correctly though. Firstly, it seems the system does not consider the previous species drawn in any way, at least it's not described. From what I take from the explanation and hunter may draw a low odds Goat in a previous year. This would cause their application to be "flagged". Based on the description they computer would ignore their application 50% of the time, so even if they were assigned one of the first 2 number and were applying for island elk they might not be drawn even though they really . There must be some sort of species specific odds reduction, but the description doesn't sound like it.

Additionally, I don't think they're system reduces an individuals odds by 50%, I would much rather see the draw run species by species and have all previously unsuccessful hunter receive 2 randomly assigned numbers, while each reduced off hunter receiving 1 randomly assigned number. Following that, run the draws for each species as outlined in the article and do away with all of the flagged applications. I think this makes more sense for the reduced odds hunts, but what do I know.

[flyboy]

One thing to remember thou, there is a chance if you go to a automatic 3-5 year penalty if successful in a draw. Some draws might come up short of all authorizations filled and then government will say resident hunters are not fulfilling harvest numbers soooooooooo.
yep,,,Hey guide buddies how about a couple more authorizations.

could happen.

[curt]

follow the prairie system its much better

[Mission7x7mulie]

The above link is outdated. Attached is the latest version: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/limited-entry-hunting/leh_system.pdf?v=1.0 (http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/limited-entry-hunting/leh_system.pdf?v=1.0)

[Lastcar]

Until I read this earlier this year I also though it was a matter of your card was up next, your first pick is all gone, but hey since you were drawn ahead others you can have your second pick. But turns out it isn't.Agree "Second Choice" is poor wording.

Really it should be called, hey we went through everyone and there is some shit left over. If you want to, let us know what of those you'd take so they don't go to waste.

Not sure if it is fair or unfair. The wording was confusing for me until I read this.

The second choice thing I am guessing to avoid undersubscribed hunts as someone else eluded to.