Quest for Goat (2016)

[luckofthedraw]

I've been wanting to do a goat/sheep hunt for quite sometime. I put in every year for some high odds LEH areas I but have never had the pleasure of being drawn. This year I got in touch with a long time friend of mine and we decided to do the hunt together...we are going with or without the draw.

Hunting the alpine has only been a dream for me up until this point. I know lots of guys are in superb "sheep shape", and they can do these types of hunts at the drop of their hat. I am in fair condition, but I know this type of hunt for myself will take some hiking with weight on my back to prepare. My buddy Dave is in "sheep shape"; he's not much of a hunter until now; but has kept up with his outdoor adventure lifestyle for years, and is an avid backpacker and rock climber. He will be summiting Everest this August on a day trip.

Knowing we need to start hiking again with each other, we decided to do a 2 night, 16k round trip. We choose to do a fairly decent elevation gain, but not into the apline. It's only our first trek out and we figure we have at least 2 more to do.

On the hike up I struggled to keep up. Dave ran right out of the gate and I pushed to keep up. I ended up tweaking my knees a bit by the half way point and I had no choice but to slow the team down drastically on our second stretch. We made it to camp in a day like planned, it took about 5 hours. We spent the 2 days there, experimenting with our gear and what food works well for us. I pulled out the map books and regs, looking at possible locations that would work. Dave enjoyed using the binos and exploring the bowl we were in. It was an old burn and we were able to spot a few deer and moose while we were there. That got him into the hunting spirit, and I think he'll have a blast on this upcoming alpine hunt.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/IMAG0839.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/IMAG0839.jpg.html)

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/IMAG0843.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/IMAG0843.jpg.html)

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/IMAG0854.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/IMAG0854.jpg.html)



After a great trip and much deliberation...we decided to head to the East Kootenay's just south of Radium. An area neither of us have spent much time in.

However, that plan got squashed shortly after arriving home from this trip....discovering that I have been drawn for a region 3 goat. I am very much looking forward to this hunt....so I thought I'd document my journey. A little bit for you guys....but mostly for myself. Stay tuned alpine hunters...I'm sure I will have questions for you. If anyone has tips for me along the way... please don't hesitate to fire them my way.

[Fella]

Awesome, looking forward to this thread! Beautiful pictures, keep em coming!

[luckofthedraw]

Post #20 from this thread is what I'm using a base model for a kit list.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?33192-sheep-pack-weight&highlight=sheep+hunting+gear

I've referred to it many times, thanks for taking the time to write this up. On this last hike I also discovered how necessary trekking poles are. I picked up some graphite ones at Costco for 40$, they seem decent. Now I'll be on the hunt for a camel bag...I'm thinking 2 liters.

[Ltbullken]

Post #20 from this thread is what I'm using a base model for a kit list.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?33192-sheep-pack-weight&highlight=sheep+hunting+gear

I've referred to it many times, thanks for taking the time to write this up. On this last hike I also discovered how necessary trekking poles are. I picked up some graphite ones at Costco for 40$, they seem decent. Now I'll be on the hunt for a camel bag...I'm thinking 2 liters.

This is my kit list as well. I've modified it a bit but it is essentially the same. I've discovered that 500ml bottles of water pack nicely into the pack between items, etc., because you may need to bring lots of water with you on to the alpine if there is scarce water sources!!

Core strength, cardio and leg strength/endurance are key. Do hillwalks with weight both up and down because you need to work out both sets of muscles. I work up to the point where I'm doing at least 2 hill walks per week with 65lbs before I head out on the mountain trip. I think what you're doing to prepare is perfect. Sounds like a good hunt ahead of you!

[kush]

Sounds great. Is that a coveted goat area? (I know nothing)

Not sure if you're interested in more 'gear knowledge', but I have found the youtube 'gritty bowmen' channel episodes with arron snyder really useful and entertaining. There's stuff about navigating, gear recommendations, tactics, etc.

PS: unless your friend is 'the flash', he'll need more than a day trip to get to the top of everest and back, ha.

Good luck

[warnniklz]

I'll be following this one....

[charlie_horse]

I've been on 3 3-16 hunts the last two years and it is beautiful, steep country take lots of pictures! Haven't done B so can't help you much there.

[luckofthedraw]

Sounds great. Is that a coveted goat area? (I know nothing)

Not sure if you're interested in more 'gear knowledge', but I have found the youtube 'gritty bowmen' channel episodes with arron snyder really useful and entertaining. There's stuff about navigating, gear recommendations, tactics, etc.

PS: unless your friend is 'the flash', he'll need more than a day trip to get to the top of everest and back, ha.

Good luck

Thanks. I'll take a look at the vids sometime. I know a lot of guys do like this draw. It'll be my first time hunting up there. I lived in Lillooet for a while so I'm not totally winging it. As far as how coveted draw B is......I can't comment.


This is my kit list as well. I've modified it a bit but it is essentially the same. I've discovered that 500ml bottles of water pack nicely into the pack between items, etc., because you may need to bring lots of water with you on to the alpine if there is scarce water sources!!

Core strength, cardio and leg strength/endurance are key. Do hillwalks with weight both up and down because you need to work out both sets of muscles. I work up to the point where I'm doing at least 2 hill walks per week with 65lbs before I head out on the mountain trip. I think what you're doing to prepare is perfect. Sounds like a good hunt ahead of you!

We'll definitely be sourcing water for and during the scouting trips.


I've been on 3 3-16 hunts the last two years and it is beautiful, steep country take lots of pictures! Haven't done B so can't help you much there.

That's wicked. First alpine hunt for me. If anyone else can point me in a start that would be amazing. Other then that, I'll be on google earth and put boots to rock during the next 2 months.

[juiceterboost]

I was drawn in 3-16 B for goat I'm planning on doing a couple or a few multi day trips looking for a respectable billy. PM me and I can provide what little insight I can as the goat hunts ive been on were the old 332 draws

[HarryToolips]

I had a draw in 3-16 (a different zone) a few years back, because of family obligations, I literally suddenly only had one day to hunt it..as others have said, in September when it's hot out bring lotsa water! Look for creek veins in the mountainside, even if it's dry lower down, as you assend you should be able to find water in those creek veins, this is key on the way up I found, they were dry lower down but there was plenty of water higher up the mountain...there are goats around, I spotted one and put a stalk on: took me awhile to get to it, the brush on the mountainside was thicker than it looks from a distance as you gain elevation, and of course steep..by the time I got to where it was it was gone..here's what the terrain looked like in my draw zone of 3-16:
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/harrytoolips/DSCN0388_zpsaa8f34fb.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/harrytoolips/media/DSCN0388_zpsaa8f34fb.jpg.html)

[HarryToolips]

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/harrytoolips/DSCN0374_zpsd56c901b.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/harrytoolips/media/DSCN0374_zpsd56c901b.jpg.html)

[HarryToolips]

A view of Lytton:
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/harrytoolips/DSCN0370_zps124b3700.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/harrytoolips/media/DSCN0370_zps124b3700.jpg.html)

[HarryToolips]

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/harrytoolips/DSCN0394_zpsbf1f9fd0.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/harrytoolips/media/DSCN0394_zpsbf1f9fd0.jpg.html)

[HarryToolips]

Here's the goat I put the stalk on:
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/harrytoolips/DSCN0394_zpsbf1f9fd0.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/harrytoolips/media/DSCN0394_zpsbf1f9fd0.jpg.html)

[HarryToolips]

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/harrytoolips/DSCN0394_zpsbf1f9fd0.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/harrytoolips/media/DSCN0394_zpsbf1f9fd0.jpg.html)

[HarryToolips]

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/harrytoolips/Goat2_zps1e0d95e3.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/harrytoolips/media/Goat2_zps1e0d95e3.jpg.html)

[decker9]

This threads gonna get good I predict, good luck this season, I'll be following, a winter billy is my #1 this season.

[warnniklz]

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y364/harrytoolips/DSCN0374_zpsd56c901b.jpg (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/harrytoolips/media/DSCN0374_zpsd56c901b.jpg.html)

This looks like some region six garbage

[HarryToolips]

This looks like some region six garbage
Ya some of the bush was so thick, I had to crawl through on my hands and knees along the mountainside..

[two-feet]

2017 is a goat year for me i think, i will be paying attention

[bighunter45]

Beautiful country! Good luck!

[Timberjack]

I'll be roaming around in a different zone up there this year... B is one of the better zones for sure. Funny area in general - I've seen lots of years where it's 30 degrees one day then 6" of new snow the next in early sept. Probably ok into early October though if you're looking for a good coat..

I'll post up how things go as well. Good luck all!

TJ

[luckofthedraw]

Things haven't quite progressed as I thought they would, but we're still on track.

I made a mistake earlier. Dave wasn't ever planning on Everest this year, he was planning on Baker. My bad. He never ended up doing Baker though. Someone in their group wasn't feeling 100%, and the night before weather check didn't look too favourable. They decided to do Mount Rainier instead. They had a great trip. I might be able to get a few pics from him later. He also went and got his core done, so if we see a good alpine buck during our adventures, he may be able to bag his first deer.

I didn't end up getting out for as many hikes as I wanted to. We bought a house here in Kamloops; and we take possession in a few days. Needless to say that things have been busy.

We did however manage to tee up for a scouting trip. We grabbed a bunch of days that worked for both of us, and made it happen. We even took my lab Hudson, and he was great. We've been home for a few days and he's still sleeping like a baby. I discovered some of my gear isn't where it needs to be. Before we go again I need to upgrade my base layers, and bring more warm stuff. It's amazing how fast the temp can change at different elevations. Sun burn during the day, frost at night. My new meindl's are fantastic. My legs aren't quite where I wanted them to be but if I don't push myself too hard I'll be fine. We've found a bunch of food that works, and a bunch that doesn't work mostly due to weight. Everything else for the most part seems good to go. We liked what we learned and we are looking forward to getting back to the area again soon.

[tenrag]

following...

[luckofthedraw]

The area we were in was absolutely stunning. It really made me realize how much I have missed playing around in the mountains the last few years. Not too many BC residents appreciate; and get to enjoy the beautiful alpine we have surrounding us.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/IMAG1293.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/IMAG1293.jpg.html)


I brought Hudson along for this journey. He doesn't get to come on too many hunting trips. He gets way too excited when he sees wildlife; he just looks at it like it's a moving target and puts the chase on whether I want him too or not. At one point he bailed out of the back of the truck box after the biggest bull squirrel you've ever seen. I am not looking forward to the day he brings a bear full tilt back at me.

Here he is with Dave navigating the shale. It's always a race between those two for who would stay out in front.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/IMAG1305.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/IMAG1305.jpg.html)

Once up to the alpine, our views were amazing. I don't own a spotter yet, so for this scout we only had binoculars and a 70x300mm camera lens. I plan to borrow a buddy's Vortex spotter for the real deal, and can't wait.

Binos just don't cut it when alpine hunting.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/IMAG1310.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/IMAG1310.jpg.html)


We had 4 goals for the scouting trip. 1) find good access to our area. 2) locate base camp. 3) find water. 4) Find a billy.

So far up until this point we had 3 of 4 and all that was left was to find the billy. We were just meandering to a new area when I glassed an upper ridge and came across this goat. We watched him for a bout 45 mins just before dark. We abandoned the goat just before sundown and made the decision to pack up a day early and head on home.

The successful trip, and early depart was great for me on two parts. I saw exactly what I wanted from our scouting trip; and the wife will be happy because she's at home packing stuff in boxes to move to our first home on the weekend.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/Goat%202016%20billy%20scout.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/Goat%202016%20billy%20scout.jpg.html)

[nature girl]

Good luck on your goat hunt.

[.264winmag]

Nice looking country! A successful scouting trip I'd say, good luck on your hunt. I hope to try for a billy also.

[luckofthedraw]

Well. We decided to pretty much go right back after our goat. It was a tough call. Part of me wanted to wait for the winter coat to start to build up. But then I'd be contending with more snow and hunting pressure. We knew we had a goat lined up now (if he would stay in the same couple ranges), and that was the biggest deciding factor that it was Go Time yet again.

Dave and I made a plan to be out for the first week of season open. Packed up at my place, cross referenced our gear. Double checked everything, and we were off. We both couldn't wait to get back into the alpine and start the real hunt.

We made it to base camp, and got ourselves set up late in the evening. The wind just howled all night. It made for a miserable sleep. It was day 1 for us, and I was up all night. I remember looking at the watch at 0430, and the alarm was set for 0530. I turned the alarm off, knowing very well that neither of us would be able to spend the day in the mountains on zero sleep. Day 1 quickly turned into a very late start. When we did wake around 9, we pounded a cup of coffee and set out.

We made it to the base of a ridge; a much smaller one in comparison to what was surrounding us. Dave wanted to leave the packs, or at least one of them behind as he was under the impression that we wouldn't be away from our packs for too long. I wasn't so convinced. I've learned on more then one occasion that plans don't always work out as you think. Two things I don't let go of while hunting is my weapon, and my pack. Dave's pack had spare clothing, food and water. My pack had the rifle,spotter and stuff you need if you're lucky enough to get your animal. Garbage bag,rope,game bags,sharpener etc... We ended up each taking our own pack.

Once on the ridge line, you could see for miles. I was quite tired and sat down with the spotter and spent an hour or so glassing the scenery. Mountain man Dave wasn't so content to sit still. He summit-ted the next range behind where we came up. He ended up thinking it looked promising and he returned to where I was, just as I was finishing up glassing. We decided to keep going up, and get a good look of the backside of the mountain we were currently on.

Once up top we had about 3 or 4 hours before we needed to start thinking about heading back. We decided to take our time up top and glass for the next 2 plus hours, and see if anything popped out. I found a good dug out spot to set up the spotter to have a good look around.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/Ejay%20spotting.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/Ejay%20spotting.jpg.html)

[Iron Sighted]

Well don't leave us hangin', this is where things usually start to get good.

[luckofthedraw]

I didn't find anything while glassing this time, which was kind of a shame. On our original scouting trip I saw a group of 4 bucks down in an alpine bowl...although not on a deer hunt I was hoping to catch a look of them this time now that I had the proper spotting scope. I was taking my time enjoying the peaks, and tightening the zoom on any off-white object that crossed my path. I'd been doing that for about 30 mins when I could hear Dave coming back huffing and puffing.

He crouched beside me, but didn't say anything. After a bit, I took my eye off the scope, looked at him and said......"well ?". Dave leans in, over his huffing and puffing breath he says "our billy's back". "What do you mean, our billy's back" I said. "He's right over there", pointing the ridge. "Over where?" I said. "Over here, right behind us" he says. That was quickly followed by "show me".

We made our way silently to the edge of the ridge and peered over. Approx 250 meters below us, but quite far away was a beauty goat, standing quartering away from us. The goat had Dave pined. Ears and eyes were on high alert, looking over the shoulder directly at us. We were on our bellies, making a plan.

We ducked back of the ridge for a second. I told Dave I was going to get some gear from my pack, and lay right here and watch the goat for a while; while we try to determine how to make a move. Dave decided to skirt around above me to a different vantage point with his camera. When we both gathered our stuff and peered back over the goat was still in the exact position watching us again.

I got ready with the spotter, range finder and gun. When I ranged the goat, it said 408 yrds. A bit to far for me to have a comfortable poke, especially at the downward angle I was dealing with. We decided we would watch the goat for as long as we needed. The shot wasn't the best, and we still hadn't ID'd it as a billy.

We watched the goat for a most enjoyable hour and a half. The animal became comfortable again sometime during this and layed down exactly where he was standing. The goat had most of the characteristics of a billy. All alone. Dirty. Looked big and muscular. The horns came well above the ears in height. I never did get a solid look at the bases or the distance between the horns because of the position the head was always in.

By this time Dave and I were pretty confident we were looking at a billy. I had put the gun and scope on him to see what kind of shot I would be dealing with. Through the scope, the shot looked good. In reality though, we were still at over 400 yards and downhill. I was starting to wonder how this would play out. Daylight was no longer in our favor, as we approached 14:00. I looked over my shoulder, and the weather we were about to face wasn't in our favor. The snow was just starting, and it was going to blow in thick in about 30 mins or so. I decided we needed to make a decision.

I bailed out of my spot. I crept up to Dave to explain what we were dealing with. He agreed with my assessment. We decided that rather then take a 400 plus shot downhill, we should at least try to close some of the downward angle. We took our boots off. I took any bulky layers off, put the bino harness on, pocketed the range finder, added gloves, toque and bandanna (necessary to take glare off your cheek bones) and loaded the riffle. The stock was on.

We crept down the ridge line out of sight as fast as we could while staying silent. Not easy on shale, but we needed to be quick to avoid getting socked in. About a 5-10 min fast stalk down hill put us with a good view again...but lower down. I re-ranged. 286 yards. I couldn't believe we closed about 120 yards on our short stalk. I guess the way the mountain curved towards the goat it was deceiving. I ranged a bunch of times to make sure it was accurate. Still good, and had to be way lower then our original position; though still quite high above the goat.

I settled in. Put the gun on the goat. At this time, still bedded, quartering away from me. I was so high above the animal, I tried to use my binos as a rest but I couldn't butt the gun into my shoulder like I wanted. I chose to lay the gun right on the mountain side. I could hold dead still for a long time this way, as the rocks were doing the work. Dave was in position just above me, getting ready to take some pics and video of the shot.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/Goat%20shot.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/Goat%20shot.jpg.html)

[luckofthedraw]

I gave Dave the thumbs up that I was good to go. He gave me one back suggesting he was filming. First time either of us had tried to get a shot on film...which wasn't even talked about ahead of time, it just sort of happened.

My gun was sighted for 3 inches high at 100 yards. I shoot a 270win, 150Grain Federal Fusions. My gun likes them a lot. The gun went off. The goat stood up. I could immediately recognize that it was a good shot, but the goat was still standing. I've read and watched film that suggests these goats are tough. I told Dave "stay on him, stay on him"....because I knew there was a good chance I was going to have to shoot again. (Dave thought I meant stay on him in the spotter, so we lost some of the film....I'll try to figure out how to load it at a later time). With goat still standing, and not certain where it would head if it got the burst of energy it needed, I fired again. Another good shot, just very slightly further back then I would have liked...but adrenaline was flying. The goat took it's last few stumbles, and tumbled from it's bedding area, down the shale about 35 meters coming to a stop.

High fives and cheers all around!! We were pumped! Grabbed our gear, and put the boots back on. We made our way down to the goat, which was super steep but down hill and adrenaline, it didn't even faze me. We got down to our goat in record time. I was super thrilled with what I found!

She turned out to be a 9.5 inch, 5 year old Nanny.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/Goat%202016-Dave%20and%20I.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/Goat%202016-Dave%20and%20I.jpg.html)

At first I was really bummed out that I shot a nanny. But we honestly thought it was Billy when we shot, and everyone that saw the pic from our scout thought we were onto a billy. In hind sight...I'm not upset at all. I am proud of her. Compulsory inspection says she's been dry for a couple years. They aren't really sure why she would be that age and off on her own. Maybe someone can shed light.

We gutted, caped and planned an egress. To save time we chose the exact same bitc*y route out that we came down. This time full loaded. Man, I was sure glad to have mountain man with me. He took majority of the goat, left me with the cape and gear. It was a 5 hour trek out. We made it to camp for beers and tenderloins around 22:00.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/Goat%202016-cape.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/Goat%202016-cape.jpg.html)

[luckofthedraw]

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h345/therealejay/Goat%202016-%20profile.jpg (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/therealejay/media/Goat%202016-%20profile.jpg.html)

[LuckyHorseshoe]

Way to go! Great read and good pics!

[lightmag]

awesome!!!! wicked hunt!! my dream animal

[juiceterboost]

Congrats sorry I haven't gotten back to you I've been busy with work... Looks like you found a better spot than I was thinking. I have a plan for a bully I glassed from highway 12 I'll keep you posted as to the results of my endeavours. I will be basically hiking up off Texas creek road, heading south when I get to the top... I just need my mountain of a friend to come with.

[BCHunterTV]

Great Goat!!

We all want a Billie, but judging can be tricky even for seasoned goat hunters

Danny

[warnniklz]

funny... mildly graphic story...

Since my truck shit the bed, I've been working out of the office. I NEVER pooh in public places... but I had to read this story in it's entirety. so I snuck off to the bathroom. The boss noticed and said I must not be feeling ok and told me to take the rest of the day off.

Love the story and thanks for the extended weekend!

The dry for a couple years is an interesting take. 5 years old and they don't have kids until 2 years old. So she may have never had a kid.

[Xenomorph]

At first I was really bummed out that I shot a nanny. But we honestly thought it was Billy when we shot, and everyone that saw the pic from our scout thought we were onto a billy. In hind sight...I'm not upset at all. I am proud of her. Compulsory inspection says she's been dry for a couple years. They aren't really sure why she would be that age and off on her own. Maybe someone can shed light.


I don't think you should feel bad about it. You never know what made her not have kids, might be a genetic problem, preference?!? I know, enough goating around ...I mean, at the end of it all, this makes the story that much more interesting and memorable.

Awesome hunt, good job!

[luckofthedraw]

funny... mildly graphic story...

Since my truck shit the bed, I've been working out of the office. I NEVER pooh in public places... but I had to read this story in it's entirety. so I snuck off to the bathroom. The boss noticed and said I must not be feeling ok and told me to take the rest of the day off.

Love the story and thanks for the extended weekend!

The dry for a couple years is an interesting take. 5 years old and they don't have kids until 2 years old. So she may have never had a kid.

Hah. Awesome and you're welcome :)

Any idea why she would be alone then? I'm 99% sure it's the same goat we saw on the scouting trip and she was alone then too.

[nature girl]

Nice goat and that country looked way to steep. Good to have friends to come and help you out.

[HuntersUnion]

I just got back from a goat hunt, unsuccessful (again) but fantastic experience. Thanks for the good story and pics.
Deanna

[boxhitch]

Good story of a successful hunt . You did the homework and deserve a goat
Not unusual for goats to be alone, billies or nannies, just it is more often a trait of billies.
Want to be absolutely sure what the sex is , watch how they stand when they pee, it happens every few hours.

[mod7rem]

Good story of a successful hunt . You did the homework and deserve a goat
Not unusual for goats to be alone, billies or nannies, just it is more often a trait of billies.
Want to be absolutely sure what the sex is , watch how they stand when they pee, it happens every few hours.

Great advice on the "pee stance", some of the other typical billy vs nanny traits can be misleading. For example, last year we were scoping out what we thought was a big bodied billy, but when I got a better view of the head, the glands behind the horns didnt standout hardly at all and the horns had a nanny like kink at the end. I was waiting for it take a pee to be sure but it eventually turned the right way and I could clearly see it had testicles. Turned out it was a big bodied 11 yr old billy with very small glands and horns that looked like a nanny. Even the compulsory inspector doubted the sex based on the kink in the horns.

[ElliotMoose]

I shot a big old dried up nanny a few years back. Judging them from a distance is difficult to say the least. Looking back now though it made the trip no less memorable as we worked our asses off for that goat. Congrats on a fine animal!