Training collars?

[OutsyderBC]

Hey guys,

I have a young GSP who is getting a bit carried away, not terribly but I feel she needs reining in a bit and beyond the positive reinforcement.
She is now picking up scents, moving birds and chasing squirrels, chipmunks and the rest…….you know, being a hunting dog!

So, I have zero experience with training collars and back in the UK they were not really on my radar (not even sure they were available/legal?) but I have friends and acquaintances who swear by them and advocate their use.

Thoughts?

Suggestions/brands/specifics I should look at/avoid?

Not wanting to shell out too much so would be interested in a secondhand one if anyone can help a brother out?

Thanks in advance

Marc

[jlirot]

personally, stuff you described is nothing i would poke a dog for...

get some books and see how you use a collar.

[Dog_River]

Collars are for folks who know how to use them. They are not for training a dog what to do, they are used for reinforcing what a dog already knows.

I personally don't use them. Try and spend more time with your dog in the yard doing the basics. Voice a command once only and make it stick. Go back to square one and rebuild if you have to. It take a lot of repetition to get a dog to handle properly and the training never ends.

How old is your pup ? do you have good training books or dvds ?

[Big Lew]

Collars are for folks who know how to use them. They are not for training a dog what to do, they are used for reinforcing what a dog already knows.

I personally don't use them. Try and spend more time with your dog in the yard doing the basics. Voice a command once only and make it stick. Go back to square one and rebuild if you have to. It take a lot of repetition to get a dog to handle properly and the training never ends.

How old is your pup ? do you have good training books or dvds ?

I agree. I have a unit that I used on my over-exuberant lab only a very few times after I not only got
professional guidance, but tried the unit on myself to insure I didn't have it set too high. Each dog is
different. My lab had absolutely no training or discipline when I acquired it at one year old, but was a
quick learner. I didn't use the device to train him....only to grab his attention when he was too excited
to obey commands he already was taught. After only a very few times I didn't need to use it any further.
He is now just over 4 and an exceptionally trained and obedient retriever, family pet, and companion.
I still have the unit in a drawer but it hasn't been used for 3 1/2 years.

[Lozzie]

We use the tri-tronics classic 70 for our lab mixes. Good training is all good but the issue we've had is that living out in the sticks my one dog would chase after deer and even bears while my wife had them out on a hike. I hardly ever shock my dogs just a little beep every once in awhile to let them know they are not in charge, but they behave differently when they are out with my wife (she babies them). So if you need to correct or call back your dog from a few hundred yards they work great, if you want to give me pointers on wife training I'll take all you've got.lol

[Ry151]

I have a the et-402 by educator. It's a very slick unit and is very customizable with 99 levels if stimulation. It works well and you can run two collars on from one remote. I would deffinetly get a professional trainer to help you with it and like others stated it doesn't train the dog but reinforces things the dog already knows. Other thing, when you test the collar don't just simulate on your hand to feel the strength because a tickle you can barely feel on your hand is quite different when against your neck like the dog would feel. the vibration mode doesn't work at all for my dogs, it just freaks them out so that's another thing to consider.

[Iron Glove]

Have never been a fan of "shock" Collars - not against them, just not my bag.
Have used "beeper" and "citronella" collars with good results on our dogs at times.
Last night though set up a Garmin Delta XC to use on our 14 year old female as her hearing is getting worse with age. We do a lot of off leash walking and hiking in remote areas and her voice recall has deteriorated to the point that we are reluctant to let her roam too far. Visual, i.e. hand signals still work well so it must be hearing or the fact that she's a red head. :D So, we are going to try the vibration and beeper aspects of the new collar and see how that works.
The Garmin seems to be quite easy to set up and use with a reportedly sufficient range and lots of variable settings to us.

[Big Lew]

Have never been a fan of "shock" Collars - not against them, just not my bag.
Have used "beeper" and "citronella" collars with good results on our dogs at times.
Last night though set up a Garmin Delta XC to use on our 14 year old female as her hearing is getting worse with age. We do a lot of off leash walking and hiking in remote areas and her voice recall has deteriorated to the point that we are reluctant to let her roam too far. Visual, i.e. hand signals still work well so it must be hearing or the fact that she's a red head. :D So, we are going to try the vibration and beeper aspects of the new collar and see how that works.
The Garmin seems to be quite easy to set up and use with a reportedly sufficient range and lots of variable settings to us.

Good luck with it! I have a friend that has the same problem...his dog is all but deaf, so he uses
the vibrator collar with good results. I've watched him, and when he activates it, his dog immediately
returns.

[russm86]

They do work, as others have said its more for getting the dogs attention and back on track rather than training, different dogs react differently to them. I think anyone I know that has owned hounds uses them but if you don't know what hounds are like, especially young ones, they can be very stubborn and hard to "persuade" to stop or listen. Everyone I've talked to it seems to be just a part of the breed in fact I've met houndsmen that wouldn't let hounds off leash until they were 2 years old. You don't need to test the unit on yourself as what feels painful to you the dog may not even feel with all the hair and skin, especially hounds with all the extra neck skin. What we did to set the level is just start at the lowest and then as you need you increase until you get their attention. Some hounds, especially our bitch that was dominant right from a pup in her litter (she was the biggest in the litter and her attitude says it all), will sometimes just push right through it and ignore it, today actually she just turned 2 and has calmed down quite a bit and rarely do we need to shock any of them, just a vibration will remind them now.

[ACB]

If you happen to get a collar have a professional trainer condition your dog to it. Don't try to do it yourself because if you do it wrong it could be really hard to fix. I use the Dogtra 2300 NCP, N is for nick, C is constant and P is for page just vibration and the collar has a huge scale of stimulation. You have to remember the collar isn't for punishment but for reinforcement of commands. I like to call it my dogs hearing enhancement, not saying I'm constantly shocking my dog I don't have too. When I put the collar on him he knows something good is going to happen. Either go for a walk, or out in the yard or hunting . It's all good to him.

[ACB]

Good luck with it! I have a friend that has the same problem...his dog is all but deaf, so he uses
the vibrator collar with good results. I've watched him, and when he activates it, his dog immediately
returns.
I had a old female lab that lasted till she was 16 and she retired from hunting at 12 and I thought well she doesn't need the collar anymore so I stopped using it. Well she'd be out in the yard snooping around and I noticed that she was getting deaf and her eyesight was failing and I thought you know I'm going to try that collar on her again, ya know her hearing and eyesight suddenly got a lot better. LOL,

[Iron Glove]

I had a old female lab that lasted till she was 16 and she retired from hunting at 12 and I thought well she doesn't need the collar anymore so I stopped using it. Well she'd be out in the yard snooping around and I noticed that she was getting deaf and her eyesight was failing and I thought you know I'm going to try that collar on her again, ya know her hearing and eyesight suddenly got a lot better. LOL,

Well, we've been noticing that she reacts far less now to things like fireworks, gun shots and even the "come, supper time" sounds so we're pretty sure it's hearing, not attitude related.
Having said that, many years ago one of the trainers said "Molly's ears are there for decoration only." :mrgreen:

[BgBlkDg]

These have their place, but, after 60+ years of being owned by dogs, I do not support their use except by highly experienced trainers. I have never used one and tomorrow, is the 30th anniversary of my life with Champion Rottweilers, with NO problems I have not been able to deal with.

I have taken "bringbacks", big, powerful males that others have purchased and could not cope with, as with my current boy, "Trojan's Diamond in the Ruff" and he is stable, happy and WILL NOT bite the smaller dogs who challenge and harass him.

It takes time, energy, consistent discipline and much love and dogs do well under these circumstances.

Rotties, are tough to train and require very strict control, but, they are worth it and give back in enormous amounts. My gorgeous Can. Champ bitch, "Quean Lily Loveliface" died of a ruptured blood vessel at age 8 1/2 on May 31 and my big guy is still mourning her as they were "lovers" from Oct. 2009.

Nothing on Earth is as totally fine as Rottweilers.

[ruger#1]

I have a Tritronics that I have used on all three of my GSPs. I can train two dogs with it at once. Only had to use it for a month. It just sits and collects dust. My first Gsp wouldn't come back when called. Used the collar a couple of times. And then I never had to use it afterwards. The lady I gotten the dog from was furious that I was using it. That's to bad. I latter learned that her GSP was hit by a train and died. I didn't come back when she called it. So to each his own on the collars. If your not sure how to use one. Then go get some professional advise. As you can ruin your dog also.

[hotload]

E-Collars are for the experienced. If your not experienced it can be a sure fire way to ruin your hunting dog. Educate yourself to the comings and goings of an E-Collar well beyond purchasing one. Educate yourself to what is needed to settle down and take control of your GSP prior to this collar. Consistent, well thought out training by you could be the course of action to take for a young rambunctious pup wanting to explore the world while turning a tin ear to you. If the problem is at your end of the leash,it would be far better to educate yourself than to turn on the volts. I have always felt that prior to maybe needing anything this drastic I will try to advance myself and become the dogs personal human e-collar that's needed to attain my goals.
ROD

[Iron Glove]

Totally agree with the need for expert training with E collars, certainly something I would never attempt.
In our situation we had a professional trainer instruct us on the use of the "beep" and citronella collars but when I asked her about the use of the "E" collars she said that she was not an expert on their use so would not instruct us on them. She had absolutely no problems with their use, only that she felt she was not competent in their use. One of the rare times we've had a trainer suggest that they were not an "expert" in all dog manners.
We chose to get an E collar for our old girl simply because of the loss of hearing problem and have no intention of using the "shock" mode. The available "beep" and citronella collars are simply not adequate due to range, quality, and such.

[ACB]

There's a good article in the new B.C. OUTDOORS about E collar's, it's a good read. If your thinking about getting one this might help you out a bit it's all about E collars and hunting dog's.

[Lozzie]

If I'm not mistaken the tri-tronics collars come with a rather thourough training dvd as well. Obviously they are not in the business of torturing dogs, but helping promote canine obsediance. I've actually used my tri-tronics on friends dogs to correct certain behaviours and after a few corrections the dogs often respond with the desired behaviour just because the collar is around their neck.

[ACB]

I know a fellow that trains dogs for hunting and also just pets for being family dog and won't train them unless the dogs owners agree that the dog will be trained with a collar. Because when people are out exercising their family pet say in a off leash park or in a open field or river bank and the owner whistle in the dog it knows it's time to go and not mess around. It takes two second's for a dog to break and takeoff across a road and get nailed by a car. So it's good to have some kind of control at distance because a hunting dog is just following it's nose.

[pg13]

I travelled to langley from kelowna and met a lady who runs a business called "life without a leash". she sold us our collar for our brittany and spent a full day training US how to properly use it! usually requires a 2 day course minimum, but had a time restraint and she was awesome with just putting it all into one long day in the pouring rain! but if you get a collar GET TRAINED! they can do so much harm! let a proffesional introduce your pup to it, not you. because every day needs to be tweaked for your dog. on a walk my britt starts to feel the nick at 12 (i dont feel it untill 30) but when she is on birds she works anywhere from 20-30 due to her focus being elsewhere. it is to get their attention! not to punish them! I had to detour from the standard training collar commands though, I never used vibrate as positive reinforcement, i used it for the 'come' command. as i did not feel right nicking her for not coming when she could not hear the command in the first place (when im on the river fishing). but that was a choice i made and only I use the collar with my dog. great tool though! but its a tool. it does not replace the hard work of properly training your pup. it reinforces/reminds them of what they have already been taught when they are too focused on their job.