Vancouver Sun-June 25/16-see "TNG" article

[BgBlkDg]

In today's "Vancouver Sun" there is an article concerning the so-called "TNG" area in the Chilcotin. It details what we Canadians, are supposedly allowed to do in this part of BC.

The major issue, apart from not being allowed to hunt there, is that WE are NOT ALLOWED to carry firearms according to the "chief" one Roger Williams........

NO slurs on aboriginals, PLEASE, but, just how much of this are we going to take, given the claims in BC, by this minority group?

Would, YOU allow one of their "rangers" to search YOUR vehicle and perhaps confiscate your camp gun or favourite hunting rifle??????

AGAIN, keep this on topic as any slurs, etc, will just result in Gate's ire and "locking" this thread which is, IMO, about a real problem we are facing here in BC.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Well, they won the court case. It's been deemed to be "their" lands. It's now posted I guess. NO Hunting, No Firearms. I don't agree with the title issue, but in a way we can thank the people way back that didn't bother to negotiate at the time and now we have to live with the consequences.

[BgBlkDg]

I despise the current "legal system" in Canada and consider the SCOC, morally bankrupt, but, my major concern here is just HOW the "rangers" are going to enforce these restrictions as I think there may be other legal aspects of Canada's Constitution involved.

[kevan]

If I'm not allowed to hunt in the area then there is no need for me to be there at all.
Going there with the knowledge that hunting isn't allowed and packing a firearm is just looking for trouble.

A few years ago we had a Moose draw West of Nazko and we were told of a certain area that was declared off limits by some locals so everybody with tags avoided the area in question.
No point in stirring the pot.

[gmachine19]

One Canada, one rule! Lets stop all these favoritism.

[BgBlkDg]

There is excellent flyfishing in that area and some prefer to carry a Grizzly defence gun when fishing. I happen to believe that any Canadian citizen should be able to do so and I am NOT "stirring the pot".

The issue here is that, if and as these claims agreements take place, more and more such restriction on our current freedoms will be enacted and that is my concern.

[Brew]

Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to hunt the rest of the province or have guns outside their area. If they don't want to work us with then we shouldn't work with them.
Our country is doomed if judges keep letting thing like this happen.

[Vladimir Poutine]

There is excellent flyfishing in that area and some prefer to carry a Grizzly defence gun when fishing. I happen to believe that any Canadian citizen should be able to do so and I am NOT "stirring the pot".

The issue here is that, if and as these claims agreements take place, more and more such restriction on our current freedoms will be enacted and that is my concern.

What you believe to be a right is not relevant. It's what a right is in law. We can agree or disagree all the live long day as to what those rights may be or should be but it's what is in law. The SCOC is appointed. The majority of those on the SCOC are Conservative choices made by Harper. That's 7 of 9.

[BgBlkDg]

What I consider a "right" is most definitely relevant as these attitudes are what initiate change in social mores and laws in a democracy, as witness "Gay Rights" since 1960, for one example.

I don't care who appointed the SCOC, the entire entity and system are deeply flawed and I would support change as I support my birthright to own and bear any arms I choose.

However, I want to see a discussion on the issue I raised, the "enforcement" of the declaration by these people.

[Stresd]

In today's "Vancouver Sun" there is an article concerning the so-called "TNG" area in the Chilcotin. It details what we Canadians, are supposedly allowed to do in this part of BC.

The major issue, apart from not being allowed to hunt there, is that WE are NOT ALLOWED to carry firearms according to the "chief" one Roger Williams........

NO slurs on aboriginals, PLEASE, but, just how much of this are we going to take, given the claims in BC, by this minority group?

Would, YOU allow one of their "rangers" to search YOUR vehicle and perhaps confiscate your camp gun or favourite hunting rifle??????

AGAIN, keep this on topic as any slurs, etc, will just result in Gate's ire and "locking" this thread which is, IMO, about a real problem we are facing here in BC.

Can't find the article .Anyone have a linky to the TNG article?? Or maybe could paste it here so others could read, please and Thanks

[BgBlkDg]

It is on page A15 of today's paper edition of the "Sun".

I have very limited computer skills and have no ability to post it here, sorry.

[Cub Driver]

Attached article
First Nation asserts control of ChilcotinXeni Gwet’in rangers to educate Nemiah Valley visitors about rules

The Vancouver Sun
25 Jun 2016
LARRY PYNN lpynn@postmedia.com

http://cache3-img1.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/docserver/getimage.aspx?regionKey=3GquSbqiJu%2bfvvkmTvfK2A%3 d%3dDARRYL DYCK/ THE CANADIAN PRESSA First Nation asserting control over its court-awarded title lands in the Chilcotin will be posting uniformed rangers at key access points to its territory this summer.Tourists are welcome to visit the Nemiah Valley, provided that they don’t hunt or carry firearms, and that they follow the same provincial laws that apply elsewhere to safe and ethical travel in the wilderness, said Chief Roger William of the Xeni Gwet’in (honey gwe-teen).That includes obeying campfire regulations, having a valid fishing licence, and not tearing up the wilderness with motorized vehicles. Tourists can continue to camp at provincial recreation sites during a five-year transition period, he said.“You can come to experience the title lands as long as you obey (applicable laws of the wilderness),” he said.The rangers will work with provincial conservation officers to deal with any violations.Tourists headed for the Nemiah Valley, about a three-hour drive southwest of Williams Lake, will be greeted by rangers during day hours, seven days a week, at three main access points — Davidson Bridge over the Taseko River, Henry’s Crossing on the north end of the Chilko River, and the Tatlayoko Lake Road-Chilko Lake Road junction.Rangers will not issue permits, but will educate visitors about aboriginal title rights in the region and how they should behave.On June 26, 2014, William, on behalf of the Xeni Gwet’in and the Tsilhqot’in (sill-co-teen) First Nation, won a Supreme Court of Canada decision recognizing title to about 1,750 square kilometres of Crown land and aboriginal rights across the larger region.The Xeni Gwet’in is one of six First Nations comprising about 3,000 Tsilhqot’in people. The Nemiah Valley is located on a gravel road off Highway 20, the main route through the Chilcotin to Bella Coola on the coast.

[albravo2]

I DIDN'T like the decision to grant them ownership, but THEY were granted ownership by the legitimate court of our land.

It AMUSES me to imagine a native guy SHOWING up on your property, saying he doesn't recognize your Property Deed, insisting he CAN wander around with his gun, hunting and FISHING.

Anybody ever play hockey with that guy that complained about officiating after every loss? How everything was the ref's fault and how something had to be done about the reffing?

[1899]

Your ire against the SCC is misguided. All of this falls at the feet of Pierre Elliott Trudeau and his Charter.

[Iron Glove]

I guess it's simply the reality, and the result of ignoring the First Nations legitimate claims for centuries.
Previous Federal and Provincial Governments, of all stripes ignored the claims for centuries until the highest arbiter of Justice in Canada ( the Supreme Court ) had to step in.
It's now law and one could opine that we got what we ( whoever the heck "we" are ) deserved.
Do I like the end result, absolutely not but it is what it is so we have to deal with it.
Personally I think there will be a period of stupidity ( not violence ) on both sides which will eventually resolve itself as both sides quickly realize that we all need to get along so we all can prosper.

[Iron Glove]

Your ire against the SCC is misguided. All of this falls at the feet of Pierre Elliott Trudeau and his Charter.

No it falls directly at the feet of those who failed to live up to their contractual ( i.e. treaty ) and legal obligations to the First Nations of BC. Those obligations preceded PET by decades.

[BgBlkDg]

Granted, but, the interpretation of that flawed document is and has been the responsibility of the SCOC and THAT is much of the current problem.

When, a nation as successful as Canada, has been since our origin from the first Norse-British explorations and settlements through the successive centuries of the "Hanseatic League", then increasing development by British, French, German and various later peoples, is "balkanized" as this and the Quebec situation has done, we ALL LOSE, IMO, and the kinds of conflicts we see in other parts of the world may very well happen here.

I do not want this and try to see what can/may be done about it.....if, anything.

[1899]

No it falls directly at the feet of those who failed to live up to their contractual ( i.e. treaty ) and legal obligations to the First Nations of BC. Those obligations preceded PET by decades.

What contractual obligations did the Crown have in this particular instance?

[Vladimir Poutine]

What contractual obligations did the Crown have in this particular instance?

To negotiate, which they did in some cases, but in the case of successive BC Governments they either delayed or simply refused. Fast forward to today where the FN have lawyers just like we do. They simply played our game and have beaten us at it. If our predecessors had simply dealt with the issue then we wouldn't have the result we have now.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Granted, but, the interpretation of that flawed document is and has been the responsibility of the SCOC and THAT is much of the current problem.

When, a nation as successful as Canada, has been since our origin from the first Norse-British explorations and settlements through the successive centuries of the "Hanseatic League", then increasing development by British, French, German and various later peoples, is "balkanized" as this and the Quebec situation has done, we ALL LOSE, IMO, and the kinds of conflicts we see in other parts of the world may very well happen here.

I do not want this and try to see what can/may be done about it.....if, anything.

So what you have now is a progression of what happened before. The demographics have changed my friend, and we have to adapt. I won't take issue with heritage and the past, but you can't stop the tide from changing. The power that was once solely in the hands of certain groups is no longer.

[ruger#1]

Only the ones that put their tails between their legs will have to adapt.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Only the ones that put their tails between their legs will have to adapt.

Easy to say but it's da law dude.

[ruger#1]

Canada is a Nation. six First Nations comprising about 3,000 Tsilhqot’in people. These are little groups with in a Nation. What a joke.

[mpotzold]

Grin & bear it. Short of bitching & complaining there is SFA you can do about it. Thank the one finger salute guy & the GD Liberal judges. His offspring is now running this great country of ours & as far as we are concerned things will get much worse before they get any better. Changing the Constitution has a snowball’s chance in the foreseeable future.
You should be privileged that “ you the tourist” is welcome to visit their newly acquired land with some restrictions.:mrgreen:

Fair & square they won the fight.
The area map. https://thewalrus.ca/assets/img/12-6-TitleFightMap.jpg

[Iron Glove]

What contractual obligations did the Crown have in this particular instance?

If a Treaty was signed then there are contractual rights, i.e. the treaty is a "contract."
If there was no treaty as is common in BC, then it may be argued that the Canada has to negotiate a treaty as set out in the Royal Proclamation of 1763 where King George III basically set out the framework or basis for the negotiation of treaties with the FN's. In the case at hand, I believe there was no treaty so the Crown had to negotiate one in good faith.
The Brits were probably the most benign of the great colonial powers, basically tried to keep everyone happy and peaceful, kind of "I say chaps, we apologize for invading your land so we'd like to make a really good deal here for you" as compared to other Colonial powers who basically said "We won, screw you."
So realistically one could argue that the root cause of all this was the good nature of the Brits. If they had been more like the Americans they could simply have put the FN's on reserves or killed them.
Now, for those that don't like what the treaty process has produced I can only suggest that you exercise whatever economic "protest" you can such as not using FN services, buying salmon ............................. and such. Each to their own.

[VLD43]

While this situation is not what many of us would like, it is the coming reality of our time. The post above reminds me of previous threads on this site regarding people who think they have a right to trespass on private lands, because their hunting activities trump others rights. The reality is that these are now private lands, and the owner is dictating how access will be granted. You don't have to like it,and I don't, but it is their right legally. On a positive note, at least they are allowing access. If people don't respect their wishes, we may lose all access to their property.

[BgBlkDg]

My point here was and is to see how others feel about the "rangers" who would have to enter and inspect your vehicle, should you happen to have a gun which you have legally kept with you as where would you leave it if you choose to fish in their area?

I do NOT want to debate the current status of the lands or any other claims in BC, but, what would one do when confronted by one of these people who has NO status as an LEO, yet, they seem to think they have some right to abrogate Canadian laws? I am not so sure that any treaty gives any aboriginal that right and the whole gun aspect is fraught with potential problems.

[LBM]

My point here was and is to see how others feel about the "rangers" who would have to enter and inspect your vehicle, should you happen to have a gun which you have legally kept with you as where would you leave it if you choose to fish in their area?

I do NOT want to debate the current status of the lands or any other claims in BC, but, what would one do when confronted by one of these people who has NO status as an LEO, yet, they seem to think they have some right to abrogate Canadian laws? I am not so sure that any treaty gives any aboriginal that right and the whole gun aspect is fraught with potential problems.
How do you feel about it and what would you do if you were in that situation.

[scoutlt1]

In today's "Vancouver Sun" there is an article concerning the so-called "TNG" area in the Chilcotin. It details what we Canadians, are supposedly allowed to do in this part of BC.

The major issue, apart from not being allowed to hunt there, is that WE are NOT ALLOWED to carry firearms according to the "chief" one Roger Williams........

NO slurs on aboriginals, PLEASE, but, just how much of this are we going to take, given the claims in BC, by this minority group?

Would, YOU allow one of their "rangers" to search YOUR vehicle and perhaps confiscate your camp gun or favourite hunting rifle??????

AGAIN, keep this on topic as any slurs, etc, will just result in Gate's ire and "locking" this thread which is, IMO, about a real problem we are facing here in BC.


My simple answer is a resounding NO.

Shameful and criminal that we have come to this point. Disgraceful really.


"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing"

[tangozulu]

Any oufitters loosing out?

[BgBlkDg]

First, I will not break the law, although I find the SCOC interpretation of the 1763 Royal Proclamation and such treaties as have been enacted utterly vile. So, I would NOT enter the lands in question.

HOWEVER, and this is my real concern, I will NEVER allow some character to enter MY vehicle, touch one of my guns or intimidate me in any respect. I would immediately go to defence mode and do whatever I felt necessary if so confronted at the border of this area, while still on Crown Land.

I have, btw, been harassed and accosted while on duty on an AFS tower, after midnight, when several inebriated members of the local band drove up the access road, hammered on my door and one threatened extreme damage to the AFS cabin and injury to me.

I did not have to use my gun, but, this is becoming an intolerable situation and one that will bring some "bad karma" to we decent, taxpaying citizens IF we do not elect governments with some balls.

[Gateholio]

What's the revenue generating angle on this? Will the band be developing commercial tourism opportunities? The Nemiah Valley is indeed beautiful, as is the Tatlayoko Lake area.

I wonder how this affects the private land holdings in the area?

[BgBlkDg]

The other legitimate businesses, such as GOs, ranchers, some logging and so on, are they going to face ruin due to the actions of a tiny minority?

Good point, Gates, this is what I want to get at.

[Whonnock Boy]

This is it in a nut shell. Reciprocity will rule the day, however, I believe it will take one side a bit longer to realize that. The more bridges that are burned, the longer it will take.


which will eventually resolve itself as both sides quickly realize that we all need to get along so we all can prosper.

[markomoose]

A good freind of mine recently sold his place on Tatlayoko Lake and boy was he glad to get out of the area.The TNG informed him last summer he couldn't hunt or fish the area anymore.Man was he pissed!I know the outfitters in the area are also not pleased.My son and I hunted two years ago packing our rifles as we pleased and took a nice 4x4 muley just outside TNG LANDS near Eagle Lake.In regards to the OP 'S question I don't care to be searched by anyone.Best just to avoid the whole area during hunting season.

[RiverOtter]

Curious what the 5 year "transition" period is all about and what happens afterward.

Also, does the settling of this treaty mean that 3000 more indians are weaned off the govt tit? As in no more raced based govt perks?

[Iron Glove]

To answer Dewey's query as to what one would / should do I'd simply suggest that if someone wishes to enter Private land, be it FN or whatever and you are asked if you have firearms you have 2 options:
1. Turn around and leave or,
2. Comply with the owner's request.
If you are still on Crown Land and the person making the request tries to enter your vehicle then sure, go into "defence" mode but be prepared to face the consequences of your actions. I assume that most folks here have a reverse gear on their vehicle, use it.
Your "rights" end as soon as you enter the Private property.

[Iron Glove]

This is it in a nut shell. Reciprocity will rule the day, however, I believe it will take one side a bit longer to realize that. The more bridges that are burned, the longer it will take.

As I suggested earlier, it will be economic pressure that brings about change.
If one doesn't like the FN stance, don't patronize any of their businesses.
On the other hand, for example, if you like Inkameep Wine or their Golf Course and you appreciate that the Osoyoos FN have been extremely successful with their private enterprises then possibly you support those ventures.
During the days of Apartheid a lot of pressure was put on the South African regime by people boycotting SA wines, port and such. Same to a lesser extent with Allende's Chile. "Vote" with your dollars.

[Gateholio]

Your "rights" end as soon as you enter the Private property.

Nonsense. Your rights remain the same. The only thing different on private property is that the property owner or their agents can ask you to leave.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Nonsense. Your rights remain the same. The only thing different on private property is that the property owner or their agents can ask you to leave.

In the context of your rights to be on the property end. I believe that's what he meant.

[Gateholio]

In the context of your rights to be on the property end. I believe that's what he meant.

We are talking about having your vehicle searched. They can request a search but They have no right to demand a search. All they can demand is you leave.

[Gateholio]

Other questions that need to be asked- What will the property taxes be and who is liable ? If they end up charging people to access their land, these people are now customers and there may be some duty of care applicable. Even if they sign a waiver.

[scoutlt1]

I'm curious about the public roads in the area.

https://archive.news.gov.bc.ca/releases/news_releases_2013-2017/2015arr0015-000661.htm

I don't believe that "private property owners" can block these roads.
Not sure if this was covered in the court's decision, but if someone owns private property on Chilko Lk (for example), surely the TNG has no right to restrict the property owner's right to transport a firearm to that property while the property owner is travelling on a public road....??

[RiverOtter]

Does this ruling mean that 3000 aboriginals are now pulled off the government tit and can use their land to support themselves?

[lovemywinchester]

Never been to the area. Probably never will now. If that's the law it's the shape of things to come in BC I guess. If its like most other FN operations, the guard shacks/ check points will be burned for fire wood this winter.

[Iron Glove]

Nonsense. Your rights remain the same. The only thing different on private property is that the property owner or their agents can ask you to leave.

Correct, I was oversimplifying it.
You have no "right" to be there and if there illegally might open you up to trespassing charges and such.
It would also reopen the arguments about "protecting my property" and to what extent one might be allowed to do so.
All in all, not a wise move to trespass.

[mpotzold]

Aboriginal title was declared exactly 2 years ago – for the first time in Canada.

“The Tsilhqot’in Nation, with a population of about 3,000 and an area of about 1,700 square kilometres on March 19, 2015 enacted its first law, which is called the Affirmation of the Nemiah Declaration.”

…………..
7. That we are prepared to SHARE our Nemiah Aboriginal Wilderness Preserve with non-natives in the following ways:
a. With our permission visitors may come and view and photograph our beautiful land;
b. We will issue permits, subject to our conservation rules, for hunting and fishing within our Preserve;
c. The respectful use of our Preserve by canoeists, hikers, light campers, and other visitors is encouraged subject to our system of permits.
8. We are prepared to enforce and defend our Aboriginal rights in any way we are able.
http://www.tsilhqotin.ca/PDFs/Nemiah_Declaration.pdf

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/aboriginal-title-in-bc-sovereignty-but-with-limits/article23667581/

The ACCORD

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/environment/natural-resource-stewardship/consulting-with-first-nations/agreements/other-docs/nenqay_deni_accord.pdf


Area claimed-remember a few years back the NO HUNTING/NO TRESPASSING signs placed at intersections by the same group in the Gang, Big Creek area that were ignored by most if not all the hunters.


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MD3XWbFJfDU/VvGQtb304YI/AAAAAAAAEfA/kDJlQNS5Vw4UZddRbzx6EW0f9vbTUgYXw/s1600/Map.jpg

questions or inquiries?

contact
Phone: (250) 394-7023
Fax: (250) 394-7043
Email: reception@xenigwetin.ca
Address: General Delivery, Nemiah Valley, BC V0L 1X0

[markomoose]

The map above is not what was given to the TNG two years ago.I'm sure the next time they take their claim to the Supreme Court Of Canada they are expected to claim most of the Chilcotin.Also notice they have no claim down near Bute Inlet .The start of "THE CHILCOTIN WAR"

[Sniperdan]

I was born on Canadian soil in British Columbia!!!! How is it that anybody has any more or less right to this land than I do? Just because my ancestors from 3 generations above came from another country should not preclude my rights to this beautiful land! Getting to the point now, that I am starting to question just how much longer I am going to want to remain a citizen here since all my rights seem to be getting handed over to Natives and Foreigners (ie: LNG, GOABC, Chinese investors, etc.) There will be nothing left for my children thanks to Crusty Clarke!!!! It is really starting to get old!

[mpotzold]

The map above is not what was given to the TNG two years ago.I'm sure the next time they take their claim to the Supreme Court Of Canada they are expected to claim most of the Chilcotin.Also notice they have no claim down near Bute Inlet .The start of "THE CHILCOTIN WAR"

Check post #24.

[srupp]

Hmmm another aspect is that there is not agreement amongst first nations on who is really the owner of almost all the land claims..friction on traditional territories still exists..in physical tit for tat expressions.realize 150 % of BC is claimed by various competing bands....leaving precious little for non natives in BC.yes and remember the SCC held sway that the claim of fn in keeping non fn off their claimed lands by almost all means...hence the rd blocks etc up north...emulating the so called requirement to show exvlusive use..hence rights and title .

It will be interesting on who holds sway on this issue of taxes and ownership of these ranches homes buisnesses on the newly formed TNG.in reallity the SCC sold the land and access to these homes....the reverse of non natives on Musqueam , Westbank lands.it has been repeatadly shown that fn ruled those cases..some in Musqueam were ready ? Toburn their homes when the insane raises in rents came due for the next x amount of years.
I would be very interested in how the wording and what the legality..binding enforcement of our site members friend who recently sold his place on Tatlyoko lake..or perhaps it was on the side of Tatlyoko lake not within the TNG ?
These places for sale..can you legally sell something now ceded by Supreme court to someone else ?they gave your property away to someone else with no compensation nor even language to deal with those within the borders.

Would YOU put up $6 million to buy a lodge , or ranch that the SCC purple robes ruled was TNG area?..im certain what laywers will tell you...run away.the rules are non existent. ..today..and may be horrible tommorrow...and untenable come Tuesday.

Like Brexit these non fn land owners have seperated..except they didnt get a vote. .nor compensation .it was stolen..legally rendering it of questionable value..who in their correct mind would buy..anything on private land? Interesting times for us..frightening times for those involved.

Just imaging wherever you currently live and bought..and paid for your home..buissness and one day the purple robes decree it now belongs to a fn.. hmmm can you even legally sell? What does the papers from the land title office say?

Our next door neighbors children own B and B in Neimiah valley hmmm or now do they...? What happens when a band member claims this home buisness..? What legal recourse seeing its on TNG land?

This coming winter..we..Cariboo rd services will they continue to plow the rds on TNG land ? Why? Mostly for the non fn that are affected by being in no mans land.

Steven

[BgBlkDg]

This is the other aspect of this vile decision by the utterly vile SCOC, and Steven expresses it well. With the roughly 150% of BC "claimed" by this tiny minority of pampered people, one can see that if this continues, all of BC will be "off limits" to most of we citizens.

So, they can/will use "any means to ENFORCE", but, we must submit to their "rangers" and travel only at their pleasure while being subject to their enforcement...........DRENGSKAPR!!!!!!!

One poster above states that he will "not go there" as is his choice, BUT, what will life be when WE are denied access to OUR BC.....or, will this end in bloodshed as I am afraid it very well might.

I DO agree with IG, ( very seldom) on one reaction to this and that is to publicly refrain from ANY economic interaction with any aboriginal person/group......this does NOT make me happy as I like to get gas at that excellent station operated by the band at Oosoyoos. But, it never fails, some f**k things up for the majority and I am NEVER going to accept "2nd place" in BC/Canada.

[Iron Glove]

Steven, you mention the Musqueam properties which I assume you mean those properties near UBC on the Musqueam land that were long term leased, correct? People bought the houses and leased the land knowing that they were on FN land and knowing that when the leases expired they would have to be renewed. They never owned the land. Whilst it's a bit unfortunate for those folks, that's a risk you take when you lease regardless of whether the land is owned by FN's, "Real Canadians" or the Crown. Personally, I would never build or buy a home on leased land for exactly those reasons.
Dewey, your decision to refrain from any interaction with any FN is of course your decision to make however there are many very successful enterprises run by some FN's where they have achieved "freedom" from the past and basically operate in the "real" world. My feeling is that those enterprises should be patronized to show people's support. Be careful in refraining from ANY interaction as you know, "they" often look just like you and me, you may well be dealing with an FN and not know it. :wink: You might find that your options in some areas are limited.

[mtnmanmike]

Any oufitters loosing out?

I phoned the band office last year and the simple answer was "no". All five existing guide/outfitters are allowed to continue business as usual. However, residential hunters are not allowed to hunt at all to help the struggling moose populations. Funny when you can hunt sheep, mule deer, goat, etc in those areas in an GOS but can be denied access to do so. It definitely has set a precedence which is scary moving forward.

[skibum]

Tsilhqot’in get a historic decision - that has the potential for huge wealth, have no clue utilize it.

Instead decide on pointless strategy that doesn't better their people at all---

Nice

[kevan]

This is the other aspect of this vile decision by the utterly vile SCOC, and Steven expresses it well. With the roughly 150% of BC "claimed" by this tiny minority of pampered people, one can see that if this continues, all of BC will be "off limits" to most of we citizens.

So, they can/will use "any means to ENFORCE", but, we must submit to their "rangers" and travel only at their pleasure while being subject to their enforcement...........DRENGSKAPR!!!!!!!

One poster above states that he will "not go there" as is his choice, BUT, what will life be when WE are denied access to OUR BC.....or, will this end in bloodshed as I am afraid it very well might.

I DO agree with IG, ( very seldom) on one reaction to this and that is to publicly refrain from ANY economic interaction with any aboriginal person/group......this does NOT make me happy as I like to get gas at that excellent station operated by the band at Oosoyoos. But, it never fails, some f**k things up for the majority and I am NEVER going to accept "2nd place" in BC/Canada.

Good post Dewey and I think your sentiments are shared by many, I feel sorry for those that are committed to have to stay in that area.

Drengskapr ?? Honor ? Right you are .

I'm probably the poster you mention regarding to avoid the area.
We discussed going in that area for a trip but our travelling vehicle is also our home away from home ( Winnebago ) and as such I'll be damned if I will allow any so-called " ranger " to enter and root through in search of fishing gear or firearm.
A bonafide law enforcement officer with a legitimate reason ... no problem.
Confrontation with one of these " rangers " would undoubtedly result in unpleasantness so we avoid the problem.
My Dear Wife and I are both 70 and prefer to steer clear of any potential issues so we travel to the Kootenays instead.

By the way Dewey.... Happy Birthday and welcome to the ' 70 Club ' !!