Best hip of side pack rifle or shot gun?

[TravisC]

In light of the leh results out soon I'm most excited to hopefully get a goat draw. If so I've hunted this area in the last couple years and it has 7 known tagged Grizzly in a very small tight valley and peaks. I've have seen a couple of theses beautiful animals, thank god I was in my truck leaving at the time of, and it was only a few hundred meters or so from where I was camped (solo). I'm looking for the smallest allowable rifle or shotgun I Could carry that's not restricted? Something I could carry on the hip or like a side pouch of the backpack where I can quickly grab or reach it. Having the rifle strapped in the backpack doesn't really allow for quick defense. Thanks

[Brew]

Look up the chiappa Alaskan 12 inch 44 magnum. I picked one up and it's a great compact little rifle. Although the best advice I could give you would be to not carry the extra weight if your goat hunting. Just carry your gun in your hand or sling it on your shoulder. 5 more pounds of gun sounds like a pain in the but to me.

[Gateholio]

Carrying two guns will be a pain. IN this case, I would have a can of bear spray in case your rifle is not handy.

[AgSilver]

I picked up an inexpensive leg strap to which I will attach a bear spray pouch off of Amazon. Always handy that way.

[Kopper]

Not much help with the firearm you're looking for but I'm with Brew on this.... An extra gun will just be a pain.

I too have a healthy respect for G bears. That's why I always keep my gun in my hands; unless my hands are needed to climb which just means getting creative.

[boxhitch]

I'm looking for the smallest allowable rifle or shotgun I Could carry that's not restrictedThat would probably be the Mare's Leg type rifle. Comes in a 45 Colt but would be more suitable in 454 or 460.
Suitability and/or convenience is only up to you.

[boxhitch]

Another compact rifle would be the CZ 527 or Ruger 77 Compact in 7.62x39 ;)

[BgBlkDg]

How much experience/skill do you have with a light, Grizzly-capable gun if any type? That, to me, is the FIRST question that you should ask yourself.

I carried quite a few different guns over decades of wilderness work, usually solo for extended periods and in locales where assistance if injured was often impossible. I know what I prefer, but, there are various options.

I also often do not carry any gun, DO carry and use a Freon Horn and intend to get some bearspray, although testing with it has taught me that it also has limitations.

Caution and awareness of your surroundings is the most effective means of "bear safety", IMHO.

[BiG Boar]

Personally I would look into the Kifaru Gun Bearer. Its a way of holding your rifle in front of your pack, you can be loaded and at the ready in less than 2 seconds. This solves your problem. Plus allows you to carry a lot more stopping power. Youtube it, or google, once you learn that system, its the only way to hunt.

[boxhitch]

That, to me, is the FIRST question that you should ask yourself.Experience comes with time and skill comes with practice, self-efficacy will determine both.

[BgBlkDg]

I have used these for ten years and agree with BB, but, I now use the much lighter system on my Seek Outside Divide pack and being older than dirt, I like the lighter system and packs.

[Squamch]

Whatever you decide to carry, practice with it. Carrying for "self defence" is no good if you're fumbling to produce, and effectively fire it.

[Brno22F]

Personally I would look into the Kifaru Gun Bearer. Its a way of holding your rifle in front of your pack, you can be loaded and at the ready in less than 2 seconds. This solves your problem. Plus allows you to carry a lot more stopping power. Youtube it, or google, once you learn that system, its the only way to hunt.

X2 on the Kifaru gunbearer. Use mine for sheep and high country mule deer hunts. Your gun is just a snap away from falling into your hands in a natural shooting position if needed.
As others have said, get 1 gun and learn how to use it. Shoot it a lot and practice. If bear defence is what you are worried about, you need to know your rifle intimately and you need to trust it to function flawlessly. It would really suck to have a jam when you have a bear charging you.

[swampthing]

I just got the gunbearer and its great. I have used an eberlestock pack with the scabbard and that makes for quick draw access. When I have game down and am making trips back n forth with backpack to camp hauling meat I pack a rossi ranch hand in a holster. These little guns are handy but require practice to be proficient with. When I am in the thick valley bottoms moving to hunting areas I make a good amount of noise to make bears well aware I am there.

[smallfry14]

I'm hoping for a goat draw this year as well and if I get it, there is no chance you'll see me packing a second gun. Try the gun bearer as mentioned or bear spray

[4x4]

Wow.
So much to learn. Never even heard about the GunBearer until now. What a great idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7B_iiglCtQ

[RiverRunner]

gun bearer…..
Keep your scope on low power. If game is that far away…. you have time to jack up the magnification.

[375shooter]

X2 on the Kifaru gunbearer. Use mine for sheep and high country mule deer hunts. Your gun is just a snap away from falling into your hands in a natural shooting position if needed.
As others have said, get 1 gun and learn how to use it. Shoot it a lot and practice. If bear defence is what you are worried about, you need to know your rifle intimately and you need to trust it to function flawlessly. It would really suck to have a jam when you have a bear charging you.

There has been some good advice mentioned here. The Gunbearer is definitely better than a regular sling, and better than the rifle being mounted on the pack, for sure. Being aware of your surroundings, making noise, and carrying a second line of defense (bear spray) is all good advice, as is having your scope already set on the lowest power setting.

I think Brno22F's advice is particularly good, but the rifle carried has to be of an appropriate caliber, and has to be mounted with an appropriate scope to make enough difference. A revolver cartridge, or any tiny rifle cartridge is likely not going to do enough, fast enough. Also, a scope with the wrong magnification, will surely be a handicap. For me, when preparing for GB defense, it only makes sense to prepare for a worst care scenario.

That scenario could go something like this. I've been hiking the high country all day long with a heavy pack. I'm exhausted and hungry, and am fighting my way through thick willow or alder brush and am still a full 5 kms from camp. It's agony just to put one foot in front of the other, let alone to be the least bit observant of my surroundings when suddenly, and expectantly, I'm charged by an enormous grizzly bear at not much farther than spitting distance. At that instance, the reason I'm being charged is not at all important, but what happens next, IS.

At that particular time, the only way to possibly save myself, will involve three things. The first, is the way I've been carrying my rifle at the time. It would have to be instantly brought up into the shooting position and that means it would have to have been as ready as possible to begin with. The best way to achieve this, is to carry it in my hands.

The second thing that might save me, is for me to be able to positively shoot that bear in a GOOD place. The only way THAT is going to happen is if I can clearly SEE the grizzly as it is rapidly advancing towards me. That requires a low powered scope. In this case it's got to be either a 1-4, 1.5-5, or 1.75-6. Lets face it, a 4.5-14 is not going to cut it. Some people may think they'll be able to point-and-shoot. Well, if that's your plan, you better start practicing.

The third thing I want in that particular situation, is a rifle with PLENTY of knock down power. The more the better, and here's why. Sure, a Casull or 7.62x39 might be able to drop a charging, adrenalined-up grizzly bear, but the important question is, WHEN is this going to happen. Will it be in 20 seconds, 30 seconds, or will it be 40 seconds, or more? I think most people would agree, ANY amount of time in this situation would be way TOO long, for obvious reasons. If the bear makes contact, I would instantly be in a life and death situation and that's unacceptable!

So for me, the only possible way to get the results I want, is to be carrying a POWERFUL rifle with a low-powered scope, which is loaded with premium handloads. That's about all there is to it! And that rifle has to be proven beyond any doubt to PERFORM as I want.

Then again, on the second hand I might be willing to accept a higher level of risk, but that's another subject...

[BgBlkDg]

Yep, I have tried a LOT of different carrying systems, have 4 Gunbearers, and have used them for 10+ years. They are OK, but, when traversing Grizzly country, as I have for many years, I ALWAYS keep my rifle "hot" and in my hands.

I carry a .338WM, 9.3x62 or, rarely now, a .375H&H. CRF rifle, 1.75x6 HD scope, triple checked to keep it at 1.75 and loaded with 250.286 or 200 gr. NPs. I make as much metallic noise as I can and stop frequently to check my surroundings.

If, rarely now, I have meat in a pack, I may also carry my Benelli 14" Super Nova, loaded with Brenneke slugs for my trips subsequent to the first when I change guns at my truck.

I know very well that smaller bore rifles will kill GBs, but, I feel safer with the bigger bores and keep in practice.

YMMV, that's just how I do it.

[.264winmag]

My buddies dad is a grizz biologist. He hasn't packed a gun for years with no issues, and he's the one tagging them in many areas. Long as I have a rifle of some sort I'm happy, but bear spray is pretty compact I guess.

[BgBlkDg]

I often worked alone close to Grizzlies, with no gun or spray, BUT, it seems most recent attacks have been on hunters and especially those packing meat. I have known a few survivors, couple were colleagues, and I doubt that I would now work without an appropriate firearm, older, slow and not as brave as I was 50 years ago.

Is your buddy's dad's name "Bruce" perchance as I may have met him back in the day, he would not be about my age, same as your dad?

[.264winmag]

I often worked alone close to Grizzlies, with no gun or spray, BUT, it seems most recent attacks have been on hunters and especially those packing meat. I have known a few survivors, couple were colleagues, and I doubt that I would now work without an appropriate firearm, older, slow and not as brave as I was 50 years ago.

Is your buddy's dad's name "Bruce" perchance as I may have met him back in the day, he would not be about my age, same as your dad?

Yes Bruce, great people. Unbelievable stories. Very interesting outlook he has on grizz, not afraid but respects them. Albeit without a pack full of meat generally. Chasing down a collared sow with Cubs is enough to question ones sanity I would think, armed with a dart gun anyway!

[BgBlkDg]

Most of us did not carry back in the day, too much extra weight and a burden when running crews in heavy bush.

I was supervising a large silvicultural project in the Flathead, when I met Bruce, had known of him through mutual friends and he was doing tracking of collared Grizzlies, riding a little Suzuki motorbike.......you have to have a castiron ass to do this, IMJO!

This was 35 years ago and while I had a rifle in camp with a crew of 75 in my care, I did not actually carry. I would now, though, as attacks have increased and I am not keen on fistfighting 500 lbs. of POed bear!

[.264winmag]

Handgun makes sense, unfortunate we can't.
Met him up there also, first Elk hunt I ever did. He would report seeing herds every day from the heli, would not tell us where lol. Unethical he felt, fair enough;)
Never seen an Elk never went back, like to one day though. Nice country...

[Travalanche]

When hunting for me, It's my rifle and bear spray. When not actively hunting just out on a hike with the kid or scouting etc..it's a defender 12ga with 3" slugs and bear spray. I trust the stopping power of a 12ga over anything else but honestly have more faith in bear spray than any firearm for a close call with a bear. The majority of bear spray stories and case studies I have read end with dirty underwear but minimal conflict whereas the majority of rifle stories I read seem to end up with a shot getting fired and a hunter getting mauled. We take bear spray training at work using cans of inert gas in place of the real thing and I have more confidence in my ability to soak a bear down with that from close range than I do in my ability to chamber a round and get an effective shot off. Until I took the training I never put any stock into bear spray, but I do now.

[375shooter]

My buddies dad is a grizz biologist. He hasn't packed a gun for years with no issues, and he's the one tagging them in many areas. Long as I have a rifle of some sort I'm happy, but bear spray is pretty compact I guess.

Being prepared with the right gun/scope/ammo and being able to use it well is IMO, your best defense. But yes I agree, you'll probably never get to use it in that kind of situation. The odds of being charged are extremely low. I find it's fun just thinking about it and preparing for it anyway, though.:smile:

[albravo2]

Personally I would look into the Kifaru Gun Bearer. Its a way of holding your rifle in front of your pack, you can be loaded and at the ready in less than 2 seconds. This solves your problem. Plus allows you to carry a lot more stopping power. Youtube it, or google, once you learn that system, its the only way to hunt.

I like my Gun Bearer, but I do find it point-loads the waist belt where it hangs and that can generate a sore spot on the hip if the pack isn't properly packed to compensate for the 9 lbs attached right to the belt.

[BgBlkDg]

Try the top strap from "Gun Corral" as one BC boy told me 5-6 years ago, He found it very workable for him, I did not and it bothered me on a Goat hunt in pouring rain north of Terrace, in 2009.

I mostly use a "Safari Sling" or a simple nylon strap and can still carry my pack with no major issues.

[RiverOtter]

Yep, I have tried a LOT of different carrying systems, have 4 Gunbearers, and have used them for 10+ years. They are OK, but, when traversing Grizzly country, as I have for many years, I ALWAYS keep my rifle "hot" and in my hands.
If by "HOT" you mean the literal definition, then it's prolly a good thing you hunt alone.....Curious though, how do you juggle trekking poles with a hot rifle in your mits.

[BgBlkDg]

I only started using poles in 2006, always used a staff before and this was modded from old aluminum ski poles.

If, I want to carry my rifle in my hands, I simply collapse my poles, put them under my outer pack straps and carry on.

Prior, to this, my modded pole fitted on the side of my packframe and while not as convenient as contemporary poles, this did the job as did the Trapper Nelsons we started with in the 1950s and much of the 1960s.

In fact, a friend of mine, recently deceased and a very successful meat hunter for many years would NOT use a modern pack of any sort and used his TN to pack out tons of Moose, Elk and Mowitch plus Whitetails.

I have never had a safety issue with guns in my 50+ years of packing them, attribute that to the fine training I received from Charlie Estlin, Joe Guilbeault and other genuine experts back in the '50s. I am also very careful with bush gear as most experienced guys are.

[Iron Sighted]

That would probably be the Mare's Leg type rifle. Comes in a 45 Colt but would be more suitable in 454 or 460.
Suitability and/or convenience is only up to you.

Also comes in 44 mag. Though as mentioned by others, who wants to pack a second gun, especially in the mountains? I'd practice being proficient with quickly shouldering and shooting your goat hunting rifle, it'll probably have a better chance of stopping a bear than a hand gun round in a short carbine. Best of all would likely be a can of bear spray, light, quick to get in use, fairly easy to be accurate enough with, and field proven to have high rate of success in stopping/turning bears in close proximity.

Good luck getting your goat, I'm hoping I get my LEH draw for one, have been wanting a nice billy for a few years now.

[RiverOtter]

Wasn't questioning your safe handling of guns BBD, merely pointing out that someone only has control of their gun while they themselves are in control.

Unless your saying you've never slipped, tripped or tumbled in 50 years of bush travel, in which case, my apologies for confusing you for a human.

[BgBlkDg]

So, are you saying that I am a sub-human, or, perhaps a "superman"?????

Actually, I am very human and I UNLOAD my chamber ANY time I consider it safer to do so. However, when in Grizzly areas, indicated by fresh sign, such as warm fecal deposits and so forth, I carry my rifle loaded much of the time.

This, after many purpose-built bear defence guns owned and used over some 46 years, is why I now carry ONLY CRF bolt rifles with "Mod. 70" controls when in Grizzly areas and manipulate them as I deem appropriate..

[375shooter]

So, are you saying that I am a sub-human, or, perhaps a "superman"?????

Actually, I am very human and I UNLOAD my chamber ANY time I consider it safer to do so. However, when in Grizzly areas, indicated by fresh sign, such as warm fecal deposits and so forth, I carry my rifle loaded much of the time.

This, after many purpose-built bear defence guns owned and used over some 46 years, is why I now carry ONLY CRF bolt rifles with "Mod. 70" controls when in Grizzly areas and manipulate them as I deem appropriate..

What do you think of the stainless version of the Kimber action for bear defense?

[.264winmag]

Just to add on the funtcion of certain actions etc., it has been my experience packing mod700 style bolt rifles that wandering around with one in the hole safety on has it's downfalls. Twice I've had bolt opened up cartridge ejected and action full of brush and why. Now I disengage firing pin while chambering one or empty. Enough resistance this way to keep bolt closed. Be pretty awkward 3 day hike from hwy fishing junk out the chamber or looking for a bolt in the mountains!

[Slinky Pickle]

This is my "bear spray". It's the Rossi Ranch Hand chambered in 44 mag. but I'm not sure I would want to go up against a grizzly with it. I find that if I don't carry this, I usually end up not carrying anything. I've shot it enough to know that this is for up close and personal only. It's not a long range gun by any stretch.

http://oi65.tinypic.com/ngpp1t.jpg

[RiverOtter]

264, you likely already know, but releasing the firing pin on a live round puts the firing pin in contact with the primer under full spring load. In other words a little tap on the back of the bolt could pop the primer.

I actually preferred the older 700's as the safety doubled as a bolt lock. Lawyers fixed that though, as you couldn't eject a round without releasing the safety.

[.264winmag]

Roger that, she always pointed in the safe direction. I actually did some testing on the situation and could only get er to fire if you close the bolt too fast;). Never tried a hammer on rear of bolt though...

[375shooter]

If you want to be ready for action and very safe at the same time, that's the way to do it. A rifle with a cartridge in the chamber and the safety on, is not as safe, as far as I'm concerned. A rifle carried as .264WM describes, is extremely unlikely to ever go off in any hunting situation. This is especially true with certain actions. Sako and Tikka are good examples. The rear of the striker is shielded by the bolt shroud.

[RiverOtter]

What do you think of the stainless version of the Kimber action for bear defense?
I'm not a M70 guy, but I quite like my Kimber Montana action. I do like CRF and 3 position safeties...Only caveat, is I abhore any CRF that won't allow the claw extractor to pop over a case rim. My brother has a M70 that won't close on a single round dropped into the breech, just a disaster waiting to happen, as the round sticks in the chamber ahead of the claw and needs a cleaning rod to pop it out.

[375shooter]

I'm not a M70 guy, but I quite like my Kimber Montana action. I do like CRF and 3 position safeties...Only caveat, is I abhore any CRF that won't allow the claw extractor to pop over a case rim. My brother has a M70 that won't close on a single round dropped into the breech, just a disaster waiting to happen, as the round sticks in the chamber ahead of the claw and needs a cleaning rod to pop it out.

RO, will your Montana pop over? What caliber is your rifle? If I could find one, I might like to get one of them in 338WM.

[BgBlkDg]

What do you think of the stainless version of the Kimber action for bear defense?


I have only owned my KMA for one year, like it, but, much prefer a proper floorplate on any action used to build a Grizzly defence rifle.

The actions, I have and do own fine examples of all of these and have decades of experience with them, that I consider best for this use, are the original Mauser 98 commercial grade made in the 1930s. I have an original Type B, 1937, 9.3x62 and it is an outstanding, simple, practical piece, but, now too valuable to use for such work.

The FN Deluxe C-ring, Brno ZG-47 and Brno 21 actions are my realistic choice and I have a couple left in case I "need" another rifle....NOT!

Mod. 70s and HVA actions are good and my Classic STS .338WM, with serious improvements by Martini Gunmakers, is a very sound choice and costs less than many other rifles of it's utility. It is a 22.5" tubed .338WM in a Micky standard fill Fwt. stock and it works.

So, I HAVE "designed" a sts Kimber 84L custom Grizzly buster, but, do not want to spend the $$$$$ on another such gun I really don't need. Maybe a 7ish lb. all up .338/06 running 250s at 2500?????

[Gateholio]

I'm not a M70 guy, but I quite like my Kimber Montana action. I do like CRF and 3 position safeties...Only caveat, is I abhore any CRF that won't allow the claw extractor to pop over a case rim. My brother has a M70 that won't close on a single round dropped into the breech, just a disaster waiting to happen, as the round sticks in the chamber ahead of the claw and needs a cleaning rod to pop it out.

Squeeze the extractor as you close the bolt.

[RiverOtter]

RO, will your Montana pop over? What caliber is your rifle? If I could find one, I might like to get one of them in 338WM.
Yep and feeds like it has eyes. Mine is a 300 WSM.

Only regret is not buying more, when many were still on the "Kimbers don't shoot" bandwagon....:wink:

[RiverOtter]

Thanks Gate, will pass that along.

He really needs a smith to tune up the claw so it pops over naturally, but at least your trick should save him some grief in the interim.

[Sniperdan]

Straight answer without all the extra advice. Check out the Dlask shotgun or the Mare's Leg rifle. Either can be carried in a leg holster.

[selvir]

if u want to carry a second rifle 12 gauge 5 Benekke slugs semi auto is my choice :razz:
been chased by bear after i shot it not good situation to be in ....