Rain Gear Woes

[GetLethal]

So in early spring I decided to buy myself a light rain jacket. I went to vpo and was sold on a Marmot shell, she was raving about how all the employees use this one how great it is blah blah blah. The fit was nice and I liked the color, sold!

Well the first trek into the bushes i felt a bit of moisture coming through in the elbow creases. Figured it was probably perspiration. The second test was a two hour hike in the pouring rain. Well when I got home I was SOAKED, jacket was completely saturated as was everything underneath. Ive got some nikwax wash in dwr that im hoping will help.

ANYWAY while on a trip through merica I found myself in an army surplus. They had rain jackets and pants that were quite a bit heavier duty then the Marmot and surprisingly affordable. I didnt pull the trigger because I didnt wanna waste more money on something different but not necessarily better. So I wanted to get recommendations/opinions on rain gear.

[Squamch]

I use the cabelas space rain gear.
A day of walking, my shoulders are damp. But I haven't found any rain gear (that isn't rubber like pioneer, Helly Hansen, etc) that doesn't soak through if you're wearing a pack or carrying a rifle on a sling.

[BgBlkDg]

The finest I have EVER used is Westcomb, made in Vancouver, and I prefer the "Neoshell" to eVENT or any other fabric, based on 3 years of quite intensive use.

I have had and used and worn out most highend brands and NOTHING is as well made and functional as Westcomb. It is NOT "cheap", but, is worth the cost.

[RiverOtter]

Do you want water resistant or waterproof? Because water resistant always leads to water leakage, especially in shoulders, knees and elbow regions.

No getting around interior moisture from condensation when the ambient humidity is 100%...But I refuse to use or endorse rain gear that ever allows water to enter from the exterior, period. I have yet to see a product out perform HH impertech for shear quiet, flexibility and waterproofness and it doesn't require expensive spray coatings or special love, it is simply impermeable to water.

[RackStar]

I have kuiu chugach, it's stretchy and never been even damp yet...
that being said I use HH impetech at work. It's great and stretches.

[boxhitch]

Impertech would be perfect if the lining was hydrophobic. When the temps drop and these are wet on the inside, it feels like putting on a used condom.
But thanks to their being so compact and the reasonable price , a second set is always handy.

Non of the breathables breath enough for the moisture my body puts out , unless its sitting in a stadium, or maybe on a slow dog-walk.

As you say RO, nothing helps at 100% RH. Then it becomes a matter of heat management, and adjusting activity. Best to be thinking warm-when-wet.

Looking forward to trying out The Packa soon.

[RiverOtter]

Impertech would be perfect if the lining was hydrophobic. When the temps drop and these are wet on the inside, it feels like putting on a used condom.
But thanks to their being so compact and the reasonable price , a second set is always handy.

Non of the breathables breath enough for the moisture my body puts out , unless its sitting in a stadium, or maybe on a slow dog-walk.

As you say RO, nothing helps at 100% RH. Then it becomes a matter of heat management, and adjusting activity. Best to be thinking warm-when-wet.

Looking forward to trying out The Packa soon.
Sounds like we have the same internal furnace, I tend to leak a little too. I hear ya on the lining, even though it's not thick it does trap moisture a bit. To that end, when I'm not wearing my Impertech, it is usually flipped inside out to dry as much as possible.

Will be curious to hear your thoughts on the Packa after some R&D, as I'd consider still doing HH bottoms for wet bush and something different up top.

[RiverOtter]

Had to Google it, neat concept, almost 'Poncho-esque'.

[BgBlkDg]

For coastal and West Kootenay bush, during late October and into November, I started using Impertech bibs, too large, staged high, worn with kneehigh GT gaiters and an original Integral Designs GT pullover all FG colour, about ten years ago.

This combo works VERY well, the shell is NOT hooded and I can vent out the top as I dislike pit zips on shooting jackets and it is light. It is NOT equal to my Westcomb gear in general mountain use, but, cost far less and so far is standing up to dense slash, rocks and gimpy old geezer tumbles.

I avoid any impermeable tops now, too warm and wet for me as I am a "furnace" of a person.

[ytlogger]

Impertech would be perfect if the lining was hydrophobic. When the temps drop and these are wet on the inside, it feels like putting on a used condom.
But thanks to their being so compact and the reasonable price , a second set is always handy.

Non of the breathables breath enough for the moisture my body puts out , unless its sitting in a stadium, or maybe on a slow dog-walk.

As you say RO, nothing helps at 100% RH. Then it becomes a matter of heat management, and adjusting activity. Best to be thinking warm-when-wet.

Looking forward to trying out The Packa soon.

Never slipped into a used condom so I can't work with that comparison, but I usually wear Impertech bibs and a Taiga gt jacket with the minimum underneath it that I can get away with and every vent that I can use opened up. I try to stay cool enough to be barely comfortable with a warm layer close at hand. Really, the gore-tex is more for wind when wet or dry, as far as I am concerned, because I will be wet, one way or the other.

[RiverOtter]

That's actually a good point with wearing minimal gear under your rain gear. I work outside 365 and try to underdress for the temps, with the goal being "Comfortable at Operating Speed". Always carry spare warm/dry stuff in my pack to either trade wet for dry or just add layers if I'm already dry but getting cold.

[Useyourfeet]

Impertech top and bottom for me. I've come to the conclusion that if I'm hiking or moving I will build more moisture than any breathable can pass. Every single water proof breathable has always let me down in day after day rain. I would rather know I can stay dry when I have too. If moving in the rain you just have to figure out what works best. If you are not coming back to a base camp I find just wearing minimal clothes under my impertech keeps me warm but damp due to sweat. Once camp is set I can bail into the tent and put the dry clothes on and get the rain gear inside out for awhile. If I'm close to a base camp of the truck I may forgo wearing the rain gear in anything other than a sedentary or emergency situation and let the fleece or wool do what it does best. I'm not coughing up 500 bucks for an over marketed under performing Shell ever again. Do some research on the US military training on this to, you'll see a similar thinking. Rain gear is only for sedentary times or a wind break. If you're active you wear fleece and accept you will be damp but warm.

[RiverOtter]

I've seen me rock a black hefty bag with only a head hole in sedentary situations to keep my rain gear dry in my pack. Prime example would be a short alpine rain storm. When the storm passes, bag gets a couple swift shakes, rolled and attached to pack or stuffed in a pocket. Garbage bags can also double as a ground sheet or roof for a crude lean to. A little bit of a derail, but still worth mentioning as gb's weigh almost nothing, yet have tonnes of practical uses.

[noth615]

I was doing a little reading on the science behind making rain gear waterproof and breathable,

Water resistance is measured by pressure of water that can be kept out of the fabric for a 24 hour period time frame, fabrics rated at least 20,000mm/24hour time period are considered waterproof.

few examples of products and there ratings at mm/24 hour

eVent 30,000
Gore-Tex pro-shell 3 layer 28,000
Marmot precip plus 25,000
Kuiu's toray Dermizax 20,000
Mountain Hard wear conduit 20,000
Marmot precip 15,000

Depending on what product of Marmot rain jacket you were sold, say the precip regular material is not considered waterproof by industries standards.

[RiverOtter]

Interesting list. I actually own a MH Conduit jacket and it MIGHT have kept water out for part of one season, I consider it absolute junk.

[noth615]

Yeah interesting list for sure, I wonder what mm/24 hour is accurately waterproof? Or rating for fabrics like Impertech, that's been suggested a couple times on this thread.

[brian]

Sounds like we have the same internal furnace Me too, I burn hot and sweat a lot. I have never found any rain gear that works for me if I have to actually move around. Either I am wet from the outside or wet from the inside. So for day hunts I almost always forgo rain gear and wear melton wool. It gets wet but is hard as hell to wet out, its quiet, and even warmish when wet. I would still bring my rain gear for a week long trip where drying wool out at night would be a real problem... but I don't think I used real rain gear at all last season.

[Timberjack]

Agreed on the points made above, and I quite like the hh rain gear for wet coastal hunts, but I have learned that a gt shell is far superior to raingear for an extended glassing session on an alpine ridge when the wind is howling. A couple hours doing that in rain gear and I find myself quite damp even when just sitting.

Another thought is that we all understand that we're gonna get wet when it's wet out, so ditch the raincoat, put on an under armour compression top, get soaked, and you'll stay warm as long as you're moving... Then when you stop put on a dry top under a shell or jacket and be warm and happy. Works in many situations...

TJ

[David]

Arc'teryx gear... stupidly expensive and not always the features you want all packaged together (I wish they did a better job sealing their wrists), but one of the few that in my mind "rate" their gear properly.
Leaf SV (for severe) is good if you want camo... but like everywhere you pay a premium for camo.
If you can get into their "pro" program, their patrol and guide lines are amazing - but again you pay a premium.

Sometimes you can find some of the Leaf SV and patrol gear at their clearance store for 20% off - but sizing and product lines are hit and miss.

After that I go with sailing gear e.g. Helly Hansen of a specific type. After that I'll look at Mountaineering/Climbing gear from European manufacturers (Fjallraven)

The hunting gear I've seen in stores (Cabelas, Wholesale, etc.) has quite frankly seemed of poor value for the money compared to what else is out there, so I've never bought any to field trial.

Lately I've found that I don't really pack any pure waterproof items as the new technology in "quick drying" materials has worked really well for me.