LEH streaks

[Backcountry Hunter]

A buddy of mine has now gone 7 years without being drawn anything! Interested on what kind of winning and losing streaks you guys have.

[Tuffcity]

6 years in a row with at least one per year. I play the low odds game though.

RC

[czechmate]

I'm on a three year losing streak. Hopefully it ends this year. Now I know how all you Vancouver canuck fans feel. Go Pens Go!!!

[Marlowethelazydog]

5 years for me. I don't play the low odds though and I always manage to put enough meat in the freezer. But still, I gotta win someday, right? right?!

Come
on Goat hunt in the Ashnola!

[skibum]

10 years without a Kamloops Lake ram - total BS if you ask me -- The LEH system needs to be changed

[Darksith]

its all where you are willing to put in...if all you do is go in for 20:1 or worse...no wonder you don't get pulled. Even 10:1 is a long shot unless its a shared hunt with a group of 3. My group averages about 1 1:15 LEH win every 3 years, which is about right for a group of 4.

[moosinaround]

9 years without a moose draw, thank goodness for GOS!!

[warnniklz]

I always get at least 1 draw. I think 06 or 07 was the last year I got skunked... I think

[Ron.C]

Got an Leh every year I've put in except one. Having said that, most of my draws are very low odds goat draws. But have been lucky on a moose and griz draw that were both better than 20:1 odds.

[sako79]

19 years without a Rosie and bison draw

[Kopper]

I really try to avoid high odds cuz I hate loosing. So I almost always snag a goat draw, moose every other year or so, and did get a grizz draw once. Still nada on bison or Rosie's.... 9 years playing the game.

[weatherby_man]

7 years without one winner... Luckily my buddy draws almost every year at least one and we share all our meat from our hunts. Something is wrong with the system.

[Glenny]

3 years in a row our group got 5-02 Moose draw. roughly 4-1 odds. Great streak. Not much lately. Gotta feeling in my gizzard I'm gonna get that Kamloops lake sheep draw. lol

[HarryToolips]

6 years in a row with at least one per year. I play the low odds game though.

RC
Same here, 2 years in a row for me, though I haven't filled any of those LEH tags..

[1899]

In 28 years I've had 2 moose draws. And I put in for low odds like 2.5 to maybe 9 to 1

[russm]

4 years since i got anything, the first and second year my buddy had a license he got his draws 2 years in a row, the second year he got an island elk that he never used...

[Ketchika]

4 draws since '96.. low odds on everything but the sheep

[srupp]

Hmm had 3 years in a row with 4 leh tags in each year..
Went 9 or 10 years in a row with at least 1 draw
2 of past 3 years have ben zero draws..but went to Alberta for pronghorn one year, elk the next..then helped a new hunter on his first moose hunt. .nice guy, great shot, fantastic hunt , bull opening hour...
Only animal in BC not drawn for is island elk, bison.
This year fall fly in moose..grizzly..1.9:1 odds 3 applications from group members 90 plus tags.
Next year alberta moose..priority 9..done..lol and trophy mulie..priority 5..plus GOS whitetail and surplus whitetail tags..
I have nothing to complain about..except I want a spenses bridge rocky ramLEH draw..

Steven

[Glenny]

4 years since i got anything, the first and second year my buddy had a license he got his draws 2 years in a row, the second year he got an island elk that he never used...

I hope he had a good excuse. Foof!!

[barry1974w]

7 years without one winner... Luckily my buddy draws almost every year at least one and we share all our meat from our hunts. Something is wrong with the system.

I don't mind the system. I seem to manage a moose draw every five years or so on average. Generally the hunts we apply for are 5-6 to one. I've gotten some low odds goat hunts and used to get the antler less mule deer fairly often. I've also gotten two elk draws and a bison draw(got skunked☹️)over the years. With the current system I can still dream about Kamloops lake sheep and Roosevelt elk. With a points system you wouldn't even be able to start dreaming about them till you were eligible for CPP....

[Ddog]

i laugh at people when they say that they havent been drawn for anything i like 4,5 , 6, 7 years,,try going 25 with only 4 tags ever,, yup thats me,,,fricken BS system

[warnniklz]

i laugh at people when they say that they havent been drawn for anything i like 4,5 , 6, 7 years,,try going 25 with only 4 tags ever,, yup thats me,,,fricken BS system

Not saying it's you... but they always release the stats. There's always a whack of them that don't make it into the draw because the applications weren't filled out right or insufficient info.

Then there's the guys that only apply for the 999:1 odd draws

[.264winmag]

4 years since i got anything, the first and second year my buddy had a license he got his draws 2 years in a row, the second year he got an island elk that he never used...
What a waste! 20 years no Roosevelt draw for me...

[Xenomorph]

i laugh at people when they say that they havent been drawn for anything i like 4,5 , 6, 7 years,,try going 25 with only 4 tags ever,, yup thats me,,,fricken BS system

Wowow, that's harsh. That's a stink right there, wow again!

[westcoast meds]

1 draw in 20 years, all kind of odds ,now i just play it like the 649 and give to the cause.

[Paulyman]

I basically get something every year and if not every other year

[russm]

What a waste! 20 years no Roosevelt draw for me...

Yep, i apply every year and can't even manage a doe draw, i hate hearing about people not using a leh after they've applied and been drawn. I was out halibut fishing last weekend and the guide i was with got his rosie after 20 years and ended up getting a huge 7x7.

[birdee]

Never had a draw in my life moved to the island in 1978 started applying for elk
before they halved the tags because the natives got half. Even tried moose a couple of yrs
at 1.2:1 nothing ....moved to alberta 2 yrs ago still no draw going to try for moose were
priority 1 gets drawn 100% may still get skunked knowing my luck.

[~T-BONE~]

SFA for the last 24 years. I even have put in for some with odds of 5:1

[Cyrus]

2 moose draws in 26 yrs. mostly group or shared hunt entries. if your local and put in for a local hunt your odds definitely decrease.

[medic11]

Nothing for me in 16 years.

[Sitkaspruce]

I am batting around 60% success in the last 20 years

Went 10 for 15 on moose in region 7, 1 for 3 on cow elk, one for 26 on Roosie's, 3-5 on grizz, numerous doe draws and even a few goats.

Only put in for cow elk this year, will see in a week or so I guess.

It is the lottery and I am batting .00005 for ~500 playing lotto 6/49 and Lotto max and 0 for 25 on local draws.

Cheers

SS

[Hammerhead]

Always manage to get something but again not playing the high odds game. A good buddy got Bison a couple of years ago and the very next year gets a call from the moe a short time after the draws were out telling him that someone had turned in their Bison tag and he was picked next.
HH

[4 point]

101 years skunked. Wait a minute I am old but not that old. To many years to count. Even in group hunts with new hunters no luck. But hey haven't won the Lotto either. Maybe this year......

[ishootbambi]

I apply for 13 draws every year. I pull at least 1 every year. I can't even remember ever not getting at least 1. Last year I drew 5...this year I WILL draw 3. Our system is a little different here in Alberta though. Most of it for the better, but we have a problem or two here as well.

[Caribou_lou]

I went on a 3 year moose streak in region 6. Odds 4:1 and up. I thought that was fairly good. Never put in for tough draws. Always under 5:1. I use to draw goat every year second choice. 0.5:1. But then our bios changed our Harvest percentage and bumped all of the areas above 1:1 so I don't draw second choice now. Mountains are rotten with goats!

[huckleberry]

First year applying for ashanola sheep drawn and sucessful. First year tat dall sheep drawn and sucessful.
First year high odds goat drawn and sucessful. Now I can't draw a thing, used all the horseshoes up.

[VLD43]

I have been putting in for LEH since the early 80's. Always have treated it as a bonus if I get drawn. Usually put quite a bit of research in before applying for a draw. I have been reasonably luck over the years, but the "HOLY GRAIL" - Roosevelt Elk has always alluded me. But I never give up hope. It's a lottery. In 2009 I was drawn for Syringa Sheep and got a great ram. So any time I feel like Roosevelt Elk will never happen, I just think of 2009. Good things happen to people who are patient and persistent is my view. Good luck to everyone on the site. You never know when it's going to happen

[randymac]

3 moose draws in 9 years, this year will make it 4 in 10

[two-feet]

4:1 is about the highest odds hunt i will apply for, and only on a group hunt. This year i only put in for moose, 3:1 on a group hunt so hopes are high. If we dont get the draw its GOS all the way

[jamfarm]

I've got 3 moose draws in 3 years of putting in for moose, successful in 2/3 hunts. I haven't put in for moose since, focusing on elk now.
I think most people don't understand how the LEH system works, there are ways to improve your chances of getting drawn. Having said that, I'd love to see BC go to a priority based system like Alberta.

[Whonnock Boy]

Oh boy! This is ripe for the picking, but I'll bite my tongue. :lol:


I basically get something every year and if not every other year

[Squamch]

I've got 3 moose draws in 3 years of putting in for moose, successful in 2/3 hunts. I haven't put in for moose since, focusing on elk now.
I think most people don't understand how the LEH system works, there are ways to improve your chances of getting drawn. Having said that, I'd love to see BC go to a priority based system like Alberta.


I'll bite, how do you improve your odds?

[Frango]

For a Rosie draw its been 33 plus years .I see a Rosie almost weekly .Moose? My hunting partners and I have had a moose draw of some kind 6 out of the last 9 years . We always do the shared draw .When we don't have a draw we hunt immature or tri palm and have never come home without a moose for the winter. Knock on wood . LOl. BC the land of good hunting and endless opportunities or picking the right Zone and taking advantage of it .Getting the draw is the easy part.

[Drillbit]

I haven't won a fall draw my entire LEH career. I've only ever won one LEH Griz and shot one the first day.

Always put in for the stomping grounds in region 5. NIL since it went LEH which is I think 1997 or 1998.
Have a few neighbours down the road that get drawn almost every year for the same spot.......

Have always had to travel for GOS.

To be honest though, I hope I get another NIL this year, cause there isn't many moose around, just wolf tracks.

[jimh]

Over 30 likely closer to 35 years with only one draw so far. But that was a very high odds bison tag that resulted in a huge bull. I will be the first to admit that a lot of my entries were for high odds draws but there were also a lot of low odds draws as well. This year I'm trying for moose, mulie doe, cow elk, and a very high odds sheep along with a couple of special sheep entries. Even with a couple of low odds in the mix I really don't expect to get any tags other then my usual GOS tags. I still prefer this system over the priority system simply for the simple fact it's getting too late in life for me to start accumulating priority points. At least now I still have a chance even if it's slim. Jim

[smallfry14]

I seem to get a mulie doe draw every year or every 2nd year, which makes sense since the odds are usually 2:1.
Been putting in for moose now for 8 years and haven't got the draw, odds usually hanging around 10:1. Put in for Grizz,Goat,Moose,and Mulie this year all under 10:1 odds and one sheep draw over 100:1 so we will see what happens

[Nimrod]

3-4 cards a year for 28 years
1 grizzly draw in 2010 or 2012 cant remember..... was going to be a fly in sheep hunt , partner backed out so never even went.
Needless to say my opinion of the BC LEH is a little bitter.

[transplantednewf]

BC LEH sucks to say the least. Seems that some people get drawn every year and then there's those (me) that havent had an LEH in 20+ years.

[Goat Hunter]

I've had goat draws but it's 24 years without drawing for moose in my own valley! Something definately not right with the draw system

[monasheemountainman]

I'm sorry I just don't get it how you guys can go 20+ years without a draw! I know it's all random but you gotta be the most unlucky sunsabitchess ever!

[Blainer]

BC LEH sucks to say the least. Seems that some people get drawn every year and then there's those (me) that havent had an LEH in 20+ years.Some of their draws are 1:1.
I drew 4 for 5 a couple years back, extremely low odds, some were a given, but they required long drive and chartered flight.
Most will never see the likes of a Rosy elk on the island or a Kamloops ram , but we all share that dream.

[Marlowethelazydog]

Region 8 odds are terrible for just about everything.

[Backwoods]

This is my first year putting in for LEHdraws!!!! Been hunting for 25 years lol, have harvested almost every year usually deer, but hope to get a grizzly draw and cow elk since they are giving 2500 tags out in 7-20!! Maybe beginner luck will come into play!!!

[Ddog]

this year i just sent in my money and asked for anything that was left that no one applied for.....LOL

[Mulehahn]

Think I am up to about 12 years. Maybe longer. I also expect it to last quite a few more. I treat the LEH as a dream hunt, the fabled Kamloops Sheep, the Roosevelt Elk, harvesting a moose on families land just outside PG, etc. I only put in for very long odds and if one day I win then I will be over the moon. But if I don't I still take a trip north every couple years for moose, try to take a muley and a whitetail every year, and occasionally chase stones. With the exception of Grizzly and Bison you can take every species in BC in a GOS, just have to plan and get lucky.

[albravo2]

Five years with no love.

I enjoy the GOS so I typically put in for the longer odds LEH.

[Steelpulse]

It's funny seeing all the complaints about not getting a tag in "their valley". Or I've applied for 20 years and nothing therefore it sucks or is broken.

You our obviously don't understand how it works, it's a lottery a random draw. Every year your odds are what they say they don't get better for you or anything, odds are the same for everyone we are all equal unless you won before of course for some animals.

We we live in the best province in Canada for hunting and ease of hunting just about anything, apply for some easy hunts and then can be happy

always remember someone's gotta win and that is enough to make me apply every year and that winner could be you.

[Ourea]

Big fat zero in 18 yrs and counting.......

[ROY-alty33]

GOS is Bc is a god send....
That being said 10+ years
1 shared Moose Draw
1 Doe draw
1 grizz draw

[quadrakid]

Why be surprised you don,t get drawn?The odds are you won,t be drawn.Thats why it is a lottery. If they were giving out enough tags for everybody we would not need a lottery.

[Ourea]

Be nice to see BC go towards a priority system similar to Alberta.

You know roughly when you will get drawn based on your priority points you build over time.

Makes no sense for a hunter to not get drawn for a 15:1 odds species/location in 20 yrs of applying ........while another can pull the tag 3 or 4 times.
Priority system brings order to the process.

[slyfox]

I have had some luck lots of goat and grizz draws 5 or 6 moose tags 7 or 8 doe tags 1 elk cow tag and caribou.

Hoping one day for a Rosie elk or sheep tag but high odds may never get it but with all the gos we have who cares just a bonus.

[blindcast]

Ten years without a Kamie sheep. Not complaining though. It's ten years of dreaming and ten years of justifying the purchase of a new rifle, new binos, spotting scope, top of the line boots, camo gear, etc. If I ever do pull that tag, I'll be the best equipped hunter on the hill. And if I don't ever, I'll still have all that great gear.

[blackbart]

That's it, I am moving to a place where all hunting is on a draw that can be predicted. F%cking BC and all the GOS sucks asssssss.

[jamfarm]

I'll bite, how do you improve your odds?

I'll tell you one way although there are others. Don't put in for draws that are 40,50 or 200+:1, you'll never get drawn.

Here's a way to illustrate 40:1 odds. Get 40 pennies, place them all heads up and mark one on the tails side, placing the marked one down so you can't identify it from the other 39 and mix them up. Select one, is it the marked one? No? Consider that to be one year of the LEH draw. Do it again and again, always mixing them up. See how many times it takes you to select that one marked penny and think of those as years.

It doesn't matter how many years a person puts in for a draw as many have mentioned, the odds are reset every year.

If you really want a moose draw put in for areas like 7-37, 7-39, 7-40, 7-41.

[blindcast]

Don't put in for draws that are 40,50 or 200+:1, you'll never get drawn.

You're mostly right. Except in that statement. You'll never get drawn if you DON'T put in for the draw. If you do put in for it, there's a chance--no matter how slight--that you might get drawn.
But I do agree that a priority system like they have in Alberta has a lot going for it. Maybe we could all push together and get the gov't to set up something like that. Might be long odds but we're used to that. Can't be any worse than putting in for Kamie sheep.

[randymac]

Its great when me, my son and grandson get our moose draw in our traditional hunting grounds as there aren't very many other hunters around.I think we are 3 out of 9 on that one.
sure sucks when we dont get the draw though and got to go chase unicorns in our new traditional hunting grounds. only 1 for 5 on that.
So , when we get the draws we want our system is great.
when we don't it sucks.

[markomoose]

I don't expect a moose draw this year as I was drawn 3 years in a row.Low odds hunts.

[quadrakid]

For those of you who want a priority system do your homework and you will realize that this type of system will not work for most bc hunts.Check out old posts on this subject.

[quadrakid]

Less LEH and more open seasons is a better goal than more LEH.

[Frango]

That's it, I am moving to a place where all hunting is on a draw that can be predicted. F%cking BC and all the GOS sucks asssssss.
Have a nice trip.

[jamfarm]

For those of you who want a priority system do your homework and you will realize that this type of system will not work for most bc hunts.Check out old posts on this subject.

The odds of me reading through pages and pages of old posts tonight are about 180:1, right up there with Squamish bull elk!
In a nut shell, why won't the priority system work here for most BC hunts? Or would, as mentioned others, a hybrid system work?

I love the idea of putting in for a draw and knowing you'll get it even if you have to wait 5, 10 or more years.

[Drillbit]

It's funny seeing all the complaints about not getting a tag in "their valley". Or I've applied for 20 years and nothing therefore it sucks or is broken.

You our obviously don't understand how it works, it's a lottery a random draw. Every year your odds are what they say they don't get better for you or anything, odds are the same for everyone we are all equal unless you won before of course for some animals.

We we live in the best province in Canada for hunting and ease of hunting just about anything, apply for some easy hunts and then can be happy

always remember someone's gotta win and that is enough to make me apply every year and that winner could be you.

It's funny how some people only let half of what they read sink in.

A few neighbours get drawn several years in a row for the same area I apply in. The odds don't add up.

[longrifle]

The odds of me reading through pages and pages of old posts tonight are about 180:1, right up there with Squamish bull elk!
In a nut shell, why won't the priority system work here for most BC hunts? Or would, as mentioned others, a hybrid system work?

I love the idea of putting in for a draw and knowing you'll get it even if you have to wait 5, 10 or more years.

Well, in short, at 180:1, which some leh draw odds are at, how would you like to know that you have virtually zero chance for 179 years? With high odd hunts priority systems don't offer much (if any) advantage over our current lottery system...

I wouldn't mind seeing the Bison draw go to if you are drawn then you won't get drawn again until all other applicants have drawn out...but, with new applicants coming into the system each year it may end up being like a 'once in a lifetime' draw...which wouldn't be that good either.


'rifle

[jamfarm]

In looking at Alberta's 2015 Draw Summary Report it looks to me that some draws are more like our LEH system. Looking at the goat draw, for example, it looks like everyone is priority 0 so everyone has the same odds, which are not great odds either, worse than the Squamish bull elk draw. Correct me if I'm wrong.

http://mywildalberta.com/hunting/HuntingDraws/HuntingDrawsReports/DrawsSummaryReport/Default.aspx

What I do like is, looking at Antlered Moose for example you can see exactly how many years it'll take you to get a draw, no guesswork. Book your vacation and go hunting.

I like your idea longrifle, if you get drawn for certain draws, you'll never get drawn again. A once in a lifetime hunt.

[zippermouth]

Big fat zero in 18 yrs and counting.......
you have the same type of odds as me!

[two-feet]

The problem with a priority point system is that it ends up being old men that have been in the system for years that get the draws effectively cutting out new/young hunters. This is not a great way to achieve hunter recruitment.

[LeverActionJunkie]

The problem with a priority point system is that it ends up being old men that have been in the system for years that get the draws effectively cutting out new/young hunters. This is not a great way to achieve hunter recruitment.

Not if you were also able to purchase points as you want or can afford. Then if you really wanna hunt sheep or bison or whatever you can double down or triple down on a species to accelerate your timeframe. So long as the points are reasonably priced and the $ goes to game/habitat management I see it as a positive. It makes no sense that some people will never pull a 10 or 25:1 odds moose tag in their entire life and the guy next door can pull the same tag two or three or more times. Having said that I generally put in my draws expecting to donate and until I find out my funds aren't being used for wildlife management will continue to. Like other lotteries it's fun to daydream.

[browningboy]

21 years for bison and sfa, got a moose every 5 years or so?

[Ourea]

Not if you were also able to purchase points as you want or can afford. Then if you really wanna hunt sheep or bison or whatever you can double down or triple down on a species to accelerate your timeframe. So long as the points are reasonably priced and the $ goes to game/habitat management I see it as a positive. It makes no sense that some people will never pull a 10 or 25:1 odds moose tag in their entire life and the guy next door can pull the same tag two or three or more times. Having said that I generally put in my draws expecting to donate and until I find out my funds aren't being used for wildlife management will continue to. Like other lotteries it's fun to daydream.


Great post LAJ.

[BiG Boar]

The system sucks here. But it does work, at least for me. I would still prefer a squared points system like some of the states have. First year 1 draw in for moose, you have a small chance. Second year is 2x2=4 chances in the pot. 3rd year is 3x3=9 chances, right up to 13x13=169 chances, then you get stuck at 169 chances till you draw. For certain animals it's once in a lifetime if you harvest. It gives priority to the longest people in. But a new hunter can still draw.

In 7 years applying I have drawn 4 moose, 4 goats, 6 grizzly, 2 does, 2 rosies, and 2 buffalo. Hopefully sheep this year.

[monasheemountainman]

The system sucks here. But it does work, at least for me. I would still prefer a squared points system like some of the states have. First year 1 draw in for moose, you have a small chance. Second year is 2x2=4 chances in the pot. 3rd year is 3x3=9 chances, right up to 13x13=169 chances, then you get stuck at 169 chances till you draw. For certain animals it's once in a lifetime if you harvest. It gives priority to the longest people in. But a new hunter can still draw.

In 7 years applying I have drawn 4 moose, 4 goats, 6 grizzly, 2 does, 2 rosies, and 2 buffalo. Hopefully sheep this year.

2 fcking rosies??? I knew you had the one...but 2???!!! wtf! did you connect on the second one too??

[zippermouth]

The system sucks here. But it does work, at least for me. I would still prefer a squared points system like some of the states have. First year 1 draw in for moose, you have a small chance. Second year is 2x2=4 chances in the pot. 3rd year is 3x3=9 chances, right up to 13x13=169 chances, then you get stuck at 169 chances till you draw. For certain animals it's once in a lifetime if you harvest. It gives priority to the longest people in. But a new hunter can still draw.

In 7 years applying I have drawn 4 moose, 4 goats, 6 grizzly, 2 does, 2 rosies, and 2 buffalo. Hopefully sheep this year.
you should buy more lottery tickets!

[JohnS]

When is the draw so I can continue my streak of NIL LMAO!!

[Darksith]

Be nice to see BC go towards a priority system similar to Alberta.

You know roughly when you will get drawn based on your priority points you build over time.

Makes no sense for a hunter to not get drawn for a 15:1 odds species/location in 20 yrs of applying ........while another can pull the tag 3 or 4 times.
Priority system brings order to the process.

Brings order to the process...bull. It won't work for most of the high odd hunts, which are plenty in our great province. That bison tag, how do you get drawn if you gotta wait 80 years to earn enough points? Its ridiculous that people complain about not getting drawn...do we complain because we didn't win super 7 or 649? Ive been in the system for 23 years, been drawn 4 times I think...2 of which were simply b/c they were 0.4:1 odds. Hell last year I missed out on a 1.6:1 hunt...musta been the only guy not drawn for that one...who cares, thats the way she goes. Doesn't mean I still didn't have meat in my freezer, or a fun trip to a GOS. You hear local guys complain they didn't get the draw for moose as an example in the EK where the odds are silly and the population is low, but they also don't mention that they smashed a great 6 point elk in the GOS, and tagged a nice 10 point whitey. Not many places in our province that don't have a sweet GOS for something that the locals can capitalize on when they don't hit their LEH...and if you live in the LML well then you are travelling anyway, just getting an LEH doesn't spell success, you gotta put in your time, learn an area, then you will reap the rewards year after year, and you are driving no matter what anyway so whats the issue?

[Darksith]

The system sucks here. But it does work, at least for me. I would still prefer a squared points system like some of the states have. First year 1 draw in for moose, you have a small chance. Second year is 2x2=4 chances in the pot. 3rd year is 3x3=9 chances, right up to 13x13=169 chances, then you get stuck at 169 chances till you draw. For certain animals it's once in a lifetime if you harvest. It gives priority to the longest people in. But a new hunter can still draw.

In 7 years applying I have drawn 4 moose, 4 goats, 6 grizzly, 2 does, 2 rosies, and 2 buffalo. Hopefully sheep this year.

If 50 guys, or 500 guys all have 169 chances, whats the difference? Its all relative.

2 rosies and 2 buffalo, you must have a connection inside...but lets wait and see in 30 years, hopefully it will balance itself out

[BiG Boar]

2 fcking rosies??? I knew you had the one...but 2???!!! wtf! did you connect on the second one too??

Yeah, the second one I really held out on last year, 14 days. It was a good bull, 343 gross, 7x7. What sucks is that now I have like .05% chance to draw this year. Its almost impossible to draw rosies in the 66% reduced odds state.

[LeverActionJunkie]

Guess we'll just keep on with the same ol same. Seems a shame not to use leh/draw system to increase hunter opportunity while managing game numbers in combination with special weapon seasons. The way things are going it won't be many years before the "at least there's the GOS" won't hold water. Every couple years we lose a season or part of a season due to special interest concerns or overharvest from special segments of the pop and increased atv access.

[BiG Boar]

If 50 guys, or 500 guys all have 169 chances, whats the difference? Its all relative.

2 rosies and 2 buffalo, you must have a connection inside...but lets wait and see in 30 years, hopefully it will balance itself out

Its not all relative. Its called better chances for guys who havent drawn a tag. Do I think I deserved a second rosie or buffalo? No, but its how our system works. I'd way rather see a guy who hasnt drawn in 20 years draw, doing a sqaured points system is the only real way to increase odds fairly, but keep the new guys involved.

I was hunting in Wyoming 2 years ago, where I also apply, and was hunting high country mulies. We got into some nice rams and as I was sitting there glassing them, this guy strolls up to me. I just assumed he was another mulie hunter. But it turns out he was hunting rams. I showed him the rams, one really nice one, and what followed, really disappointed me. Their system is like albertas system, only the top priority guys can draw. He had started applying 20 years ago when he was 52 and the system had just come out. I showed him the rams up in the high country and told him, I'll go with you and help you get your ram up above us. Due to a heart condition he said he would go no furthur up the mountain. It was too much for the old fellow. He had put in for so many years and finally his ticket had come. But it came too late. He had the most priority as anyone ever had in that system, and it still took 20 years. What about the 200 guys with level 19? what about the 300 at 18 years. For those guys its impossible to draw. We have many hunts like that in BC that would take well over 80 years to draw. Alberta is going through this right now, and having to go to random draw for goats.

BTW the system will never balance itself out. I will always get more draws than the average guy. I'm willing to travel so I dont tend to apply for back yard draws.

[monasheemountainman]

Yeah, the second one I really held out on last year, 14 days. It was a good bull, 343 gross, 7x7. What sucks is that now I have like .05% chance to draw this year. Its almost impossible to draw rosies in the 66% reduced odds state.


haha so that's the key eh....hold on to the thought that you might actually draw a third one!! good for you, I am jealous but happy for you. Love to see some pics!!

[Darksith]

Its not all relative. Its called better chances for guys who havent drawn a tag. Do I think I deserved a second rosie or buffalo? No, but its how our system works. I'd way rather see a guy who hasnt drawn in 20 years draw, doing a sqaured points system is the only real way to increase odds fairly, but keep the new guys involved.

I was hunting in Wyoming 2 years ago, where I also apply, and was hunting high country mulies. We got into some nice rams and as I was sitting there glassing them, this guy strolls up to me. I just assumed he was another mulie hunter. But it turns out he was hunting rams. I showed him the rams, one really nice one, and what followed, really disappointed me. Their system is like albertas system, only the top priority guys can draw. He had started applying 20 years ago when he was 52 and the system had just come out. I showed him the rams up in the high country and told him, I'll go with you and help you get your ram up above us. Due to a heart condition he said he would go no furthur up the mountain. It was too much for the old fellow. He had put in for so many years and finally his ticket had come. But it came too late. He had the most priority as anyone ever had in that system, and it still took 20 years. What about the 200 guys with level 19? what about the 300 at 18 years. For those guys its impossible to draw. We have many hunts like that in BC that would take well over 80 years to draw. Alberta is going through this right now, and having to go to random draw for goats.

BTW the system will never balance itself out. I will always get more draws than the average guy. I'm willing to travel so I dont tend to apply for back yard draws.

How many years apart was your rosie and buffalo 1st to 2nd? If there was a 4 year gap then its all the same, your right back into it within a 4 year swing. I think our system is a 3 year swing if you win isn't it?
When the odds are 1-30 or 1-50...I don't really see the difference, it just means that new hunters get screwed...guys like you actually if you think about it. So you wish we had a system that would of handicapped you thus probably taking away those amazing hunts you had? Im not for alberta's system either, I just don't think the squared points system is any better than what we currently have. Your buffalo and rosies were luck, the rest are just you willing to go to. I do the same generally speaking, except I go into areas with GOS more so than LEH, but Im also not complaining that our system is broken. I totally agree that waiting 20 years or 30 years for a draw...meh I will be dead by then...lets roll the dice and see what happens

[pieter]

Have put in for the LEH since they started put in for good odds places and have never had a draw I was told that's 37 plus years but it is a lottery have bought lottery tickets for ever and have never won anything big there either

[two-feet]

Not if you were also able to purchase points as you want or can afford. Then if you really wanna hunt sheep or bison or whatever you can double down or triple down on a species to accelerate your timeframe. So long as the points are reasonably priced and the $ goes to game/habitat management I see it as a positive. It makes no sense that some people will never pull a 10 or 25:1 odds moose tag in their entire life and the guy next door can pull the same tag two or three or more times. Having said that I generally put in my draws expecting to donate and until I find out my funds aren't being used for wildlife management will continue to. Like other lotteries it's fun to daydream.

so now rich guys would be able to out compete working class guys? Sounds even worse than the regular priority point system.

I prefer the more egalitarian random draw scenario we have here. I understand some people get lucky repeatedly and others are on long runs of poor fortune but that is how randomness operates. I would be open to hybrid or other ideas but we cant alienate entire demographics because of age or bank account balances.

[LeverActionJunkie]

so now rich guys would be able to out compete working class guys? Sounds even worse than the regular priority point system.

I prefer the more egalitarian random draw scenario we have here. I understand some people get lucky repeatedly and others are on long runs of poor fortune but that is how randomness operates. I would be open to hybrid or other ideas but we cant alienate entire demographics because of age or bank account balances.


Whats the big deal? I hear there's always the GOS if a guy doesn't get drawn.

But in all seriousness we're talking about a few high demand hunts, and what's wrong with allowing people to spend money, whether on points or additional draw entries. So long as the $ goes to wildlife management, I got no problem. Use these high demand hunts to fund game/habitat projects maybe allow the co's to leave the office once a week and follow up on tips. In reality they could do away with a large percentage of these draws if they modified seasons in any number of ways. I'd be surprised if the ministry has any real idea of the number of game animals in the province. Happily surprised but still surprised.

[Sharpish]

No, that's a garbage idea. The same wealthy individuals would be winning their Rosie's and sheep every year. You must be one of them. ;-)

there are enough rich hunters in BC to take LEH into a 1% club. So yeah , garbage idea.

[j270wsm]

Certain draws should be like grizz in Alaska. Once you draw a tag you can't apply again for a specified amount of time. Depending on the animal and number of tags, not being allowed to apply could reduce the odds enough that people would have better odds of being drawn

[LeverActionJunkie]

No, that's a garbage idea. The same wealthy individuals would be winning their Rosie's and sheep every year. You must be one of them. ;-)

there are enough rich hunters in BC to take LEH into a 1% club. So yeah , garbage idea.


Ha ha yeah I'm Rollin In high cotton ***** you bet. Whatever the govt don't take from me I use to support a family, pay 2 mortgages and save for when I can't get up I the morning and drag my a$$ to work. There are barely any resident hunters in BC in relation to the size of the province and population of it let alone rich ones. In comparison to what many western states, most of which could be fit in bc 2 or 3 times, do for their game through license fees we're f&@k all in the scheme of things. The govt knows it and could care less about us. That's why we hang out on HBC wish things were this or that or attacking each other over this or that, and complaining about FN's.

Gotta get back to my estate. The gardener and the butler are waiting for their cheques.

[two-feet]

Whats the big deal? I hear there's always the GOS if a guy doesn't get drawn.

But in all seriousness we're talking about a few high demand hunts, and what's wrong with allowing people to spend money, whether on points or additional draw entries. So long as the $ goes to wildlife management, I got no problem. Use these high demand hunts to fund game/habitat projects maybe allow the co's to leave the office once a week and follow up on tips. In reality they could do away with a large percentage of these draws if they modified seasons in any number of ways. I'd be surprised if the ministry has any real idea of the number of game animals in the province. Happily surprised but still surprised.

i could be down for something like that with those conditions.

[BiG Boar]

Gotta get back to my estate. The gardener and the butler are waiting for their cheques.

hahaha, thats funny stuff right there. I think that prices should only go up so people take their hunts seriously. Nothing pisses me off more than finding out a guy drew a rosie and because he was only invested into it for $6 bucks, he didn't feel the need to go. There should be a give a tag back program, and if you draw the tag, it goes onto your credit card on file automatically. So long as the money from tags go to wildlife, I think they should raise them too.

[two-feet]

Certain draws should be like grizz in Alaska. Once you draw a tag you can't apply again for a specified amount of time. Depending on the animal and number of tags, not being allowed to apply could reduce the odds enough that people would have better odds of being drawn

this seems fair, a random draw but once drawn you are not able to re apply for several years? I like it.

[Backcountry Hunter]

hahaha, thats funny stuff right there. I think that prices should only go up so people take their hunts seriously. Nothing pisses me off more than finding out a guy drew a rosie and because he was only invested into it for $6 bucks, he didn't feel the need to go. There should be a give a tag back program, and if you draw the tag, it goes onto your credit card on file automatically. So long as the money from tags go to wildlife, I think they should raise them too.

I second the give a tag back program! Not sure why you put in if you aren't going to use it. But then there's the guys where something comes up and they can't go and that's understandable. A give back would be great for situations like this

[riflebuilder]

6 years in a row with at least 1 LEH. But we put in for low od hunts as well as the Kami sheep and Rosies on the Island. One has to dream right

[Midland]

The problem with a priority point system is that it ends up being old men that have been in the system for years that get the draws effectively cutting out new/young hunters. This is not a great way to achieve hunter recruitment.

Good comment!

[wideopenthrottle]

3 years since my last one (mule doe) ..have had 2 WT does (when they had leh) 3 mule does, 1 goat and 1 cow moose in about 20 years of applying off and on here..

[Ourea]

Brings order to the process...bull. It won't work for most of the high odd hunts, which are plenty in our great province. That bison tag, how do you get drawn if you gotta wait 80 years to earn enough points? Its ridiculous that people complain about not getting drawn...do we complain because we didn't win super 7 or 649? Ive been in the system for 23 years, been drawn 4 times I think...2 of which were simply b/c they were 0.4:1 odds. Hell last year I missed out on a 1.6:1 hunt...musta been the only guy not drawn for that one...who cares, thats the way she goes. Doesn't mean I still didn't have meat in my freezer, or a fun trip to a GOS. You hear local guys complain they didn't get the draw for moose as an example in the EK where the odds are silly and the population is low, but they also don't mention that they smashed a great 6 point elk in the GOS, and tagged a nice 10 point whitey. Not many places in our province that don't have a sweet GOS for something that the locals can capitalize on when they don't hit their LEH...and if you live in the LML well then you are travelling anyway, just getting an LEH doesn't spell success, you gotta put in your time, learn an area, then you will reap the rewards year after year, and you are driving no matter what anyway so whats the issue?

Thanks for your comments Darksmith.

My comment was specific to being nothing more than.... "SIMILAR TO ALBERTA".
I did not say "like" Alberta.
Certain segments of LEH here in BC, for the benefit of those dedicated to the application process,...... a process.....an orderly process.... is beneficial.
Certain high odd draws will/should be nothing more than "lotto ball".

Any business mind or person that can crunch basic numbers understands the last sentence.

My thoughts on some of our LEH hunts.....more you apply...better ur odds get.....simple as that.
Thus my thoughts/comment on being "similar" to Alberta

To me......LEH is nothing more than a Christmas wishful hope.

I am 100% content with our GOS opportunities.
I have never hoped or relied on regulation for my success.

Myself, and hunting colleagues, will always enjoy our endless bounty that GOS affords.
LEH could be a little more organized and thought out.

[two-feet]

To any person that has not had a draw in over a decade: let me pick what draws you put in for the next 2 years and you will certainly score

[Gateholio]

There should be a give a tag back program, and if you draw the tag, it goes onto your credit card on file automatically. So long as the money from tags go to wildlife, I think they should raise them too.

This is the only change I realistically see happening, and only because we have an online system now, and only because gv't may see it as a source of revenue.

How this would effect authorization numbers would be the question. We hear that as a rule of thumb, managers release authorizations based on the assumption that some people will not hunt, some will not connect and some will kill. So if you get charged for a tag, you theoretically will be more motivated to hunt, which means more kills which means less tags next year.

I could see draws that are 40:1 with 5 tags becoming 25:1 with 3 tags, something like that maybe...

Priority points systems have been rejected by BC as too many draws a points system would not work (anything over 5:1 or so, IIRC) And I don't see a system where you can buy points showing up in BC anytime soon either, as it truly would discriminate against those with less disposable income.

As always, the best plan to enjoy hunting in BC is to plan GOS hunts, and if you get an LEH, change your plans. :)

[Drillbit]

To any person that has not had a draw in over a decade: let me pick what draws you put in for the next 2 years and you will certainly score

I know the draw I want. My neighbours get it every 4 out of 5 years for the last 18 years. That's the one I want.

Any idiot can pick a low odds draw and get one, 3 hours drive past GOS.

[duckhunt]

I've never gotten a draw before. Putting in since I was 10 and nothing for 12 years

[Skull Hunter]

I'm content with the system as it is now. With that said I've been pretty lucky in the draw. I've draw grizzly a number of times at odds less than 1.5:1 and have pulled a few goat draws that are either undersubscribed (0.5:1) or a little higher odds 4 or 5:1. I've also been fortunate enough to draw white sheep un in the tat and an late season Bison.

I don't know if people really understand the term 'low odds' people see numbers like 5,6,7, or even 8 to 1 and think, hey those numbers are low I should be able to draw. In reality though, those aren't all that great, sure they're no Kamloops Lake Sheep, but there are also many draws that are 3:1 or less.

I don't put in for many LEH's and don't complain if I don't get drawn since really there is more than enough GOS around to fill my freezer every year.

I really hate the idea of a points system as I despise the idea of spending my money just to accumulate priority knowing I will not draw for possibly 10+ years. I'd much rather have hope for drawing year in and year out (although the odds may be significantly less).

[J_T]

I agree with many here that we have great GOS opportunity in BC. An LEH is a bonus. I do find it odd that so many people base their hunt on LEH and accept LEH is the norm, and we talk about ways to make LEH better, when I think we should be questioning decision makers about what needs to be on LEH (yes, it has it's place) and talking about ways to get a hunt off of LEH.

[wideopenthrottle]

well it happened for white tails and some areas for elk...so it can happen

[Steelpulse]

I was reading about the Wyoming draw, which came out yesterday, they do priority points which you build to be successful after a number of years, I think about 8 years when you start to be successfully drawn. But that is only 75% of tags, the other 25% is random draw which allows new hunters as well as priority point holders to be drawn.

This seems reasonable to me, perhaps something like this could work for our highly sought after hunts Rosie, sheep, moose etc, while still keeping it a mostly random draw I do like the idea of drawing after 8-10 years applying, my parents always said plan for your future right?

any thoughts?

im going to start building some priority points in some other states so in 10 years I may have a chance at a Montana sheep or nice elk somewhere or huge freak mule in Arizona who knows

[Ourea]

I was reading about the Wyoming draw, which came out yesterday, they do priority points which you build to be successful after a number of years, I think about 8 years when you start to be successfully drawn. But that is only 75% of tags, the other 25% is random draw which allows new hunters as well as priority point holders to be drawn.

This seems reasonable to me, perhaps something like this could work for our highly sought after hunts Rosie, sheep, moose etc, while still keeping it a mostly random draw I do like the idea of drawing after 8-10 years applying, my parents always said plan for your future right?

any thoughts?

im going to start building some priority points in some other states so in 10 years I may have a chance at a Montana sheep or nice elk somewhere or huge freak mule in Arizona who knows

Something to ponder......
We, as "non residents", can apply for hunting draw opportunities in other provinces and states.
We have the best of both worlds living in BC.

[Ourea]

I agree with many here that we have great GOS opportunity in BC. An LEH is a bonus. I do find it odd that so many people base their hunt on LEH and accept LEH is the norm, and we talk about ways to make LEH better, when I think we should be questioning decision makers about what needs to be on LEH (yes, it has it's place) and talking about ways to get a hunt off of LEH.


Populations are far easier to be moved into GOS......it is extremely difficult however, to take a GOS, and move it to LEH.
(endless political battles need to be waged to restrict anything when gov is involved)

Smaller populations, with easy access, that are vulnerable to harvest, should remain LEH.
Species like goat and sheep in said such areas need to be highly regulated.
They are such a volatile species without hunting.

My view......conservation concerns should always come first....killing opportunities second.

[Gateholio]

Something to ponder......
We, as "non residents", can apply for hunting draw opportunities in other provinces and states.
We have the best of both worlds living in BC.

BC is missing out on a huge revenue opportunity by just giving allocations to outfitters instead of listing the allocated tags in a non resident LEH and allowing winners of the draws to hunt with or without a guide.

[Ourea]

BC is missing out on a huge revenue opportunity by just giving allocations to outfitters instead of listing the allocated tags in a non resident LEH and allowing winners of the draws to hunt with or without a guide.

I knew someone would take the bait ;-)
Don't wish to derail the thread however

[J_T]

Comments within:


Populations are far easier to be moved into GOS......it is extremely difficult however, to take a GOS, and move it to LEH.
(endless political battles need to be waged to restrict anything when gov is involved) My concern is that decision makers are not considering options, other than the simple solution. When things get tough, go LEH. There are other options to consider. We have viable regional and provincial processes in place.

Smaller populations, with easy access, that are vulnerable to harvest, should remain LEH. Certainly agree with this.
Species like goat and sheep in said such areas need to be highly regulated. We can often manage the risk to these animals through access management plans/restrictions. With an aging demographics to the hunter, it is possible to have 'some' of these more liberal in seasons, and allow energetic hunters to pursue, without waiting for a draw. If we have sex and size restrictions we are managing most risk.
They are such a volatile species without hunting.

My view......conservation concerns should always come first....killing opportunities second. I do agree conservation first, I am (as you suggest) talking about hunter opportunity. And I'm just suggesting that we should always be creative where we can, and hold on to hunting opportunity.

[Ourea]

Comments within:

Our GOS opportunities are robust.
Where is the line when asking for more?
Many a workforce has bankrupted corporations by asking for more....and more....and more......always more....never less.

I support your comments on GOS when a given species/area can support it......LONG TERM.
Any species that can have their numbers decline as much as 50% in a few yrs due to their sensitivity (non hunting related) ....restriction needs to be placed to ensure harvest does not further hurt their success as a herd.

I know we r on the same page JT.
I think that our view has some differences based on the altitude we r looking from.

[LeverActionJunkie]

BC is missing out on a huge revenue opportunity by just giving allocations to outfitters instead of listing the allocated tags in a non resident LEH and allowing winners of the draws to hunt with or without a guide.

Certainly agree with you on that. It's hard to imagine a govt missing out on an easy revenue stream. GOABC lined some pockets I Guess. If they ever opened bc up to nonresident and no resident alien big game, the flow of $ Into the province would forever change the standing and respect the hunting community garners from the govt and frankly business and community at large. There'd be guys from all over chomping at the opportunity to hunt this province.

[barry1974w]

I was reading about the Wyoming draw, which came out yesterday, they do priority points which you build to be successful after a number of years, I think about 8 years when you start to be successfully drawn. But that is only 75% of tags, the other 25% is random draw which allows new hunters as well as priority point holders to be drawn.

This seems reasonable to me, perhaps something like this could work for our highly sought after hunts Rosie, sheep, moose etc, while still keeping it a mostly random draw I do like the idea of drawing after 8-10 years applying, my parents always said plan for your future right?

any thoughts?

im going to start building some priority points in some other states so in 10 years I may have a chance at a Montana sheep or nice elk somewhere or huge freak mule in Arizona who knows

the problem with that is the highly sought after hunts are the ones with the really high odds. So if you go to a points system, after a short while, it ends up taking sixty years to pull a tag.

[Rugernator]

4 years in a row with nothing.

[Elk-Aholic]

20 years without a draw and 5 or 6 entries per year, finally drew one on year 21. Oh well, we have the most liberal GOS seasons in North America here in BC, life is still great!

[dougan]

26 years no Rosie and only two moose

[kmc]

been hunting for 42 years. put in for Roosevelt elk every year, never been drawn. I also put in for moose and doe's every year and have been drawn twice for doe's in all these years. I guess that's why I haven't won 649 or lotto max yet

[zippermouth]

20 years without a draw and 5 or 6 entries per year, finally drew one on year 21. Oh well, we have the most liberal GOS seasons in North America here in BC, life is still great!
ill take those odds all day long!! I'm banking after 20 years I get one draw!

[Elk-Aholic]

ill take those odds all day long!! I'm banking after 20 years I get one draw!
Fortunate for us, BC has the most liberal hunting seasons in all of North America, I'll gladly hunt GOS anytime with the lengthy seasons we are given. Filling the freezer season is almost here

[358mag]

20 years without a draw and 5 or 6 entries per year, finally drew one on year 21. Oh well, we have the most liberal GOS seasons in North America here in BC, life is still great!
Not a bad draw from what I hear

[zippermouth]

Not a bad draw from what I hear
i hear you have a hard draw to fill this year ;)

[358mag]

i hear you have a hard draw to fill this year ;)
Yes going to be a bit of a tough one , good thing I have a very good strong support group . Once in a lifetime draw for sure .http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.png