bcmoosecamp.com

[walks with deer]

Any body see bc moose camp.com is issueing self guided moose tags to foreigners? I saw them advertise this in the new hunting regs..

[dakoda62]

I hope this is a spoof. Probably not, more backdoor liberal deals

[walks with deer]

Not kidding google it

[randymac]

I still think /hope its bs.what page of the regs? if its in there everybody should be on the phone to their MLA in the morning.

[Seymourarm]

They have a Facebook page as well

[walks with deer]

Pg 70...

They are american owned outfit
..

[randymac]

Looks like there is truth to it and another plot by the evil GOABC empire. How the hell did they get this thru? Oh yea, the Liberal Party
http://www.goabc.org/assistant-guide-certification/

[Sitkaspruce]

Dan Brooks is the main name that comes up under moose hunting....

Dan Brooks was the Conservative Leader in Bc for a bit and looks like he has gone back to hunting.

Cheers

SS

[fuzzybiscuit]

Old news. I believe Dan was on here a while ago talking about it...

[j270wsm]

I thought non resident Canadians and aliens had to be accompanied by a guide?

[dbergen69]

Looks like there is truth to it and another plot by the evil GOABC empire. How the hell did they get this thru? Oh yea, the Liberal Party
http://www.goabc.org/assistant-guide-certification/

I am not sure how long this Assistant Guide certification has been in place but it predates the current government.

[fuzzybiscuit]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?126325-Fair-Game-Outfitters-calls-for-boycott-of-GOABC&highlight=brooks

This is the original post referring to bcmoosecamp.com.

[bridger]

I thought non resident Canadians and aliens had to be accompanied by a guide?


They do do need a guide, but the new law says that non residents can get a guides license. I think what Dan is doing is licensing his hunters as assisiant guides then they guide each other.

[dbergen69]

I believe this is also available to resident hunters. License fees would be less and no work permit would be required. I think there was a post on here discussing this.

[randymac]

They do do need a guide, but the new law says that non residents can get a guides license. I think what Dan is doing is licensing his hunters as assisiant guides then they guide each other.
so is Dan Brooks the owner of Moose camp?

[bridger]

so is Dan Brooks the owner of Moose camp?

Yes, I believe he is. There was considerable discussion on this plan a few months ago on HBC

[randymac]

missed that, well if they have the tag allotment and don't take anymore from allotment from residents I guess its only the other guides that would not be happy

[fuzzybiscuit]

missed that, well if they have the tag allotment and don't take anymore from allotment from residents I guess its only the other guides that would not be happy

Go to post #12, hit the link, and read all about it...

[bridger]

missed that, well if they have the tag allotment and don't take anymore from allotment from residents I guess its only the other guides that would not be happy


Seems to be causing some unrest within the Goabc.

[boxhitch]

Its the G/O's quota to do with as he sees fit, lots of special deals and trades being done throughout the industry.
Nothing to loose sleep over.

[wideopenthrottle]

I missed the significance of this discussion when it was happening earlier...perhaps it was because at the time it was portrayed as a blow against goabc...the majority here seem to hold a bit of a grudge after the allocation fight (happened before I joined hbc so I was unaware when it happened)-lots of good info here... another way of looking at it is that now non residents can hunt without employing a resident as a guide...hmmm...perhaps we may have gotten a little overzealous in our hate of goabc? whats everyone else's take?

[russm86]

When I read the ad I thought it was directed at BC resident hunters...

[boxhitch]

Its not a free-for-all for NRs . they get an assistant guide license and still have to work under a specific g/o license

[boxhitch]

When I read the ad I thought it was directed at BC resident hunters...Maybe open to BCers , benefits could be access to a bull tag in an otherwise leh area if thats what he has, and the use of whatever the g/o includes in the way of cabins, stock, equipment, etc.

[2chodi]

GOABC pushed to have the Wildlife Act amended to remove the requirement for an assistant guide to be a Canadian resident and to allow guides to administer the licensing of assistant guides. The act was amended in 2015 I believe. Dan is taking advantage of this unforeseen "loophole" that allows him as the guide to provide the assistant guide exam and license non-resident aliens, and therefore allow them to guide themselves.


I missed the significance of this discussion when it was happening earlier...perhaps it was because at the time it was portrayed as a blow against goabc...the majority here seem to hold a bit of a grudge after the allocation fight (happened before I joined hbc so I was unaware when it happened)-lots of good info here... another way of looking at it is that now non residents can hunt without employing a resident as a guide...hmmm...perhaps we may have gotten a little overzealous in our hate of goabc? whats everyone else's take?

[Mulehahn]

As others have said, I don't really see the problem. If a G/O still only has 10 tags to fill it doesn't really affect the number of moose harvested, it only affects the number of hunters. I sometimes (ok, Often) have a hard time finding a moose in an area I have scouted and known for years. If an American, or German, or whatever can fly in here, get themselves back into the Guides area, locate a moose, harvest it, and pack it back out I say good for them. They had a true hunt. I wish I could go to other places and hunt species we don't have here on my own. No guides, no nothing, just me. But I bet I would come home empty handed most of the time and I bet most the Customers coming here will to. All this does is allow a G/O to sell more hunts for the same number of animals.

As for a resident abusing it. The G/O has his allotment of tags. He will not cut a local any discount on pricing, etc so it will still cost you thousands. My only concern, and I still don't know if this was resolved is the ability of a G/O to exceed his limit without any real penalty.

[Gone_Fishin_]

scroll down the screen on "moose" in the "extras"

grouse tag = $50

lmao

[Wentrot]

scroll down the screen on "moose" in the "extras"

grouse tag = $50

lmao

That's actually the standard cost for a grouse tag. That is of course if the Leh gods treat you well.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

You do notice Dan is no longer commenting on this. it turns out that any non resident assistant guide has to have a work permit which can take 6 months and a lot of paper work to get done. You also must advertise the job opening for a certain amount of time in local papers.

I heard he was removed from a sportsman show down south due to false advertising and selling illegal hunts.

It will suck when he has to pay back all those deposits he took from potential clients.

[Walking Buffalo]

From Dan's earlier posts it appears that he is opposed to the "elitism" and control of non-residet hunting evolving within the outfitting industry. His "self guiding" ploy was marketed as a way to break the stranglehold outfitters have.

It would be great to hear from Dan in regards to his opinion of completely eliminating the NR guide requirement. Unless he was actually just looking for a new way to market to a captive clientele without actually eliminating the elitism and control, I can't imagine how he would be against allowing NR's to hunt without a guide.

So Dan, tell us what colour your wearing....

[wideopenthrottle]

as long as the fees to self guide are more than the resident guide would have gotten it still makes for a net benefit to the bc economy (as stated it should not matter to moose pops a quota is a quota) and I would expect as mulehahn mentioned, a non-resident's unguided hunt success should be a lot less than having a professional guide that lives in the area show you where they are

[bridger]

Actually the compulsory guide law is redundant in many parts of the province. Put non residents on Leh assigned to a specific area and let them hunt DIY.

[riflebuilder]

I want to buy a territory and forget about LEH....ya like that is afordable

[walks with deer]

On a funny note wonder how many deposits dan received yesterday

[Asco]

I got a tag for a moose from Dan. Very decent guy. He is opening his moose allotment to residents who are willing to pay for the tag.

I have been skunked for Leh for 4 years straight. My hunting partner split the cost. I had to do the assistant hunting guide course ($250). No big deal.

I think Dan is doing this in the face of other GOs; after the reallocation I think it's great that residents can access animals that were previously only available to those with deep pockets/ non residents.

Bravo Dan

[yama49]

I also see no problem with this, not exceeding quota, so who gives a shit.

[BgBlkDg]

Actually the compulsory guide law is redundant in many parts of the province. Put non residents on Leh assigned to a specific area and let them hunt DIY.

I would support a "hunter host" policy that includes access to SOME LEH situations for ONLY native-born Canadians, resident IN CANADA.

I would oppose ANY foreign and that damned well INCLUDES Americans, inclusion in LEH, ANY "non-resident" access to ANY form of "Guide's Licence" and ANY investment in BC GO businesses.

I will never stand by and see foreigners hunting in BC, on a DIY basis and most of my relatives and friends feel as I do. If, I were to encounter such persons in BC, my first reaction would be to treat them as "invaders" as my ancestors did in 1775, 1812-14 and so forth.

I also want to ban foreigners angling here without guides and hunting Grouse, etc. on their own.

We are now, again, having our forest industry attacked by the Yankees, well, a huge surcharge on energy, bans on all access to our hunting-fishing and other restrictions are in order.

[walks with deer]

So how many people bought tags.? As residendents

[Seth]

I got a tag for a moose from Dan. Very decent guy. He is opening his moose allotment to residents who are willing to pay for the tag.

I have been skunked for Leh for 4 years straight. My hunting partner split the cost. I had to do the assistant hunting guide course ($250). No big deal.

I think Dan is doing this in the face of other GOs; after the reallocation I think it's great that residents can access animals that were previously only available to those with deep pockets/ non residents.

Bravo Dan

How much was the cost of the tag you purchased from him?

[walks with deer]

Anybody by one?

Mr brooks any feedback.?

[pnbrock]

what is the cost of a moose tag from Dan?

[danbrooks]

Lol - OK Guys, BC Moose Camp is not owned by Americans, nor is it a devilish plot by GOABC. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm a pure bred British Columbian, and I hate GOABC more passionately than any of you can imagine. Want to hear me rant about it... probably not, but I'm burning up with hate hate hate... anyways.

I launched BCMooseCamp.com to do two things. (and if you have questions how it works just go read the website BCMooseCamp.com - register to get all the info, it's too much to try to explain here)

First - offer back to resident hunters outfitter quota. The allocation that screwed residents out of thousands of tags is grossly unfair - agree? I just got my quota, between the two guide areas I operate we now get 164 Bulls in 5 years, no more than 49 in one year - averages to about 33 bulls per year. We typically take between 10 and 20, I've never exceeded 20. What to do with those extra tags? What to do ... Well, I could sit on them like a scrooge, or I could give them to my friends and family like lots of other outfitters, or I could offer them to resident hunters. We have costs associated with it, it's not free, but I'm making it as cheap as I possibly can for resident hunters. And for the record, I was only able to sell 4 self-guided hunts at the end of the day, and they all got their bulls, two real nice trophies too! Had lots more sold until GOABC got to them... but that's another story.

Second - this is the most controversial - I'm poking a stick in the eye of GOABC and their misguided lobbying and hypocrisy. They are ruining outfitting in this province and I mean to fight back. By selling self-guided hunts to americans, I can sell moose hunts at a fraction the price of guided hunts. And it became possible because GOABC lobbied to take control of the assistant guide licensing - including removing the requirement that the guide be a canadian citizen. By doing so, they now make it possible for wealthy foreigners to buy hunting territories and guide themselves. That's what they want, but they don't want cheap self-guided hunts - it scares the hell out of them that anyone be allowed to openly self guide- because if you can self guide, why do you need a guide at all - and that would spell the end of guiding in BC. And that's my point - I won't stop selling self-guided hunts until Govt reinstates the requirement that guides be canadian, and even then I'll probably still sell to residents so don't worry.

You see, hunting territories aren't territories for hunting any more, now they are real estate that you can legally collude to manufacture values by changing something that you don't actually own - QUOTA. That's right, outfitters don't own their quota, they own exclusive rights to guide, and quota isn't included in your guide certificate- but outfitters act like they do own it, it's standard speak in the industry myself included - didn't I say I got "my quota" - tell an outfitter he doesn't actually own his quota and you're likely to get punched in the nose, I almost did when I pointed it out to a competitor who was yelling at me at my booth at a trade show.

It's not about hunting anymore, it's about buying a territory, boost it's quota through allocation, or boost the value of quota by manufacturing false prices (what outfitters sell hunts for and what they tell government they sell hunts for is very very different) and then sell it for more than you bought it for. Allowing non residents to guide exacerbates this problem, each policy that GOABC advocates that makes it easier for foreigners to own a territory is designed to do one thing and one thing only - make more money when they flip the territory. It's an old scam, and it's working - in case you haven't looked into buying a territory recently, they are not priced as a business, as such they aren't viable, they are priced as a fantasy hunting preserve. The model is BrOkEn! And it's getting harder and harder for British Columbians that want to become an outfitter to get into the business. And don't kid yourself, outfitters have been doing self-guided hunting under the table for decades - they just called it "wrangling". Foreigners go "wrangling" for an outfitter, outfitter gets free labour and throws him in a free moose hunt at the end to pay him. Happens all the time...

And what do I get for my efforts? At this point GOABC has gotten me kicked out of one sportshow, has another 3 shows that won't let me advertise BCMooseCamp such that I dropped out of them too, I may not be able to advertise in the hunting regs next go around either (new standards that my ad no longer meets.. I wonder what that is?) - plus I've been investigated by the CO service for illegal guiding, I've endured vicious personal attacks, further false accusations that led to more CO investigations, falsified news articles, thousands in legal bills to prove I'm legal, and even personal threats.

In the meantime, if you don't get your moose draw this spring contact me and I'll do what I can. Wish I could hunt with you all, that's just not possible, but I believe EVERY HUNTER SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HUNT MOOSE! Maybe I can make a difference to one hunter, I suppose that's good enough for me to keep on doing it.

Dan

[Spy]

Thanks Dan what can Resident Hunters do to help you , and screw the GOABC?

[danbrooks]

You do notice Dan is no longer commenting on this. it turns out that any non resident assistant guide has to have a work permit which can take 6 months and a lot of paper work to get done. You also must advertise the job opening for a certain amount of time in local papers.

I heard he was removed from a sportsman show down south due to false advertising and selling illegal hunts.

It will suck when he has to pay back all those deposits he took from potential clients.

Ah, so you're one of those outfitter huh chilcotin hillbilly!

For the record, you and your GOABC buddies spreading falsities about work permits is TOTALLY DEBUNKED. Want to see my work permit exemptions? And yes, you and your ilk got me kicked out of a sportshow with your lies and falsities. Does that make you a big man? You feel good about being a liar? Everything I have done has been above board, it's you and uneducated uninformed outfitters like yourself that have done the shady stuff, not me.

And also for the record, I paid back every single deposit for the hunts that you and your GOABC scum managed to convince of your lies.

[Whonnock Boy]

Top notch Dan. I wish you luck.


Lol - OK Guys, BC Moose Camp is not owned by Americans, nor is it a devilish plot by GOABC. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm a pure bred British Columbian, and I hate GOABC more passionately than any of you can imagine. Want to hear me rant about it... probably not, but I'm burning up with hate hate hate... anyways.

I launched BCMooseCamp.com to do two things. (and if you have questions how it works just go read the website BCMooseCamp.com - register to get all the info, it's too much to try to explain here)

First - offer back to resident hunters outfitter quota. The allocation that screwed residents out of thousands of tags is grossly unfair - agree? I just got my quota, between the two guide areas I operate we now get 164 Bulls in 5 years, no more than 49 in one year - averages to about 33 bulls per year. We typically take between 10 and 20, I've never exceeded 20. What to do with those extra tags? What to do ... Well, I could sit on them like a scrooge, or I could give them to my friends and family like lots of other outfitters, or I could offer them to resident hunters. We have costs associated with it, it's not free, but I'm making it as cheap as I possibly can for resident hunters. And for the record, I was only able to sell 4 self-guided hunts at the end of the day, and they all got their bulls, two real nice trophies too! Had lots more sold until GOABC got to them... but that's another story.

Second - this is the most controversial - I'm poking a stick in the eye of GOABC and their misguided lobbying and hypocrisy. They are ruining outfitting in this province and I mean to fight back. By selling self-guided hunts to americans, I can sell moose hunts at a fraction the price of guided hunts. And it became possible because GOABC lobbied to take control of the assistant guide licensing - including removing the requirement that the guide be a canadian citizen. By doing so, they now make it possible for wealthy foreigners to buy hunting territories and guide themselves. That's what they want, but they don't want cheap self-guided hunts - it scares the hell out of them that anyone be allowed to openly self guide- because if you can self guide, why do you need a guide at all - and that would spell the end of guiding in BC. And that's my point - I won't stop selling self-guided hunts until Govt reinstates the requirement that guides be canadian, and even then I'll probably still sell to residents so don't worry.

You see, hunting territories aren't territories for hunting any more, now they are real estate that you can legally collude to manufacture values by changing something that you don't actually own - QUOTA. That's right, outfitters don't own their quota, they own exclusive rights to guide, and quota isn't included in your guide certificate- but outfitters act like they do own it, it's standard speak in the industry myself included - didn't I say I got "my quota" - tell an outfitter he doesn't actually own his quota and you're likely to get punched in the nose, I almost did when I pointed it out to a competitor who was yelling at me at my booth at a trade show.

It's not about hunting anymore, it's about buying a territory, boost it's quota through allocation, or boost the value of quota by manufacturing false prices (what outfitters sell hunts for and what they tell government they sell hunts for is very very different) and then sell it for more than you bought it for. Allowing non residents to guide exacerbates this problem, each policy that GOABC advocates that makes it easier for foreigners to own a territory is designed to do one thing and one thing only - make more money when they flip the territory. It's an old scam, and it's working - in case you haven't looked into buying a territory recently, they are not priced as a business, as such they aren't viable, they are priced as a fantasy hunting preserve. The model is BrOkEn! And it's getting harder and harder for British Columbians that want to become an outfitter to get into the business. And don't kid yourself, outfitters have been doing self-guided hunting under the table for decades - they just called it "wrangling". Foreigners go "wrangling" for an outfitter, outfitter gets free labour and throws him in a free moose hunt at the end to pay him. Happens all the time...

And what do I get for my efforts? At this point GOABC has gotten me kicked out of one sportshow, has another 3 shows that won't let me advertise BCMooseCamp such that I dropped out of them too, I may not be able to advertise in the hunting regs next go around either (new standards that my ad no longer meets.. I wonder what that is?) - plus I've been investigated by the CO service for illegal guiding, I've endured vicious personal attacks, further false accusations that led to more CO investigations, falsified news articles, thousands in legal bills to prove I'm legal, and even personal threats.

In the meantime, if you don't get your moose draw this spring contact me and I'll do what I can. Wish I could hunt with you all, that's just not possible, but I believe EVERY HUNTER SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HUNT MOOSE! Maybe I can make a difference to one hunter, I suppose that's good enough for me to keep on doing it.

Dan

[danbrooks]

Thanks Dan what can Resident Hunters do to help you , and screw the GOABC?

I say we come up with some sort of business model to buy more hunting territories and sell the tags back to resident hunters only! What do you think? Can we come up with 200 people to pay $1000 each to collectively own a territory and then each owner gets a tag once every 5 years? Or something like that? Just an idea I'm floating, curious to know what you think.

[Spy]

I say we come up with some sort of business model to buy more hunting territories and sell the tags back to resident hunters only! What do you think? Can we come up with 200 people to pay $1000 each to collectively own a territory and then each owner gets a tag once every 5 years? Or something like that? Just an idea I'm floating, curious to know what you think.
Buy terrorties lol why not let's just camp all over them and make sure there is a resident hunter on every Rd hunting grouse rabbits and wolves. I would rather put them out of business them give them a cent. I like the way you are thinking though!

[Spy]

It's election year boys let's open up this can of worms again and take the fight to the GOBs and Libs. I will never forget what these MFs did to Resident Hunters!

[danbrooks]

Buy terrorties lol why not let's just camp all over them and make sure there is a resident hunter on every Rd hunting grouse rabbits and wolves. I would rather put them out of business them give them a cent. I like the way you are thinking though!

I like your idea too! I learned one thing this past year from all the persecution, nothing hurts an outfitter like exposing where and how to hunt his territory! Boy did that get a reaction! Who wants to go hunting with me next summer? Let's get 100 guys and flood a territory this fall!

[Spy]

I like your idea too! I learned one thing this past year from all the persecution, nothing hurts an outfitter like exposing where and how to hunt his territory! Boy did that get a reaction! Who wants to go hunting with me next summer? Let's get 100 guys and flood a territory this fall!
Done I'm in and all for learning a new area. There is nothing like beating a guide into an area every morning. ;-)
Lets take the fight to them online again and let perspective clients know we will be there every step of the way. They play by a set of rules we can play the same game. :-)

[palmer]

I say we come up with some sort of business model to buy more hunting territories and sell the tags back to resident hunters only! What do you think? Can we come up with 200 people to pay $1000 each to collectively own a territory and then each owner gets a tag once every 5 years? Or something like that? Just an idea I'm floating, curious to know what you think.

I would be happy to put up a few grand for a moose tag every few years....and be able to build a cabin on the land

[Whonnock Boy]

I realize this is just a hypothetical discussion here, but I am firmly opposed to RH's purchasing territories. IMO, we need to solve the root of the problems, not attempt to fix with band aid solutions. Respectfully....

[BgBlkDg]

Agreed, and I, old nationalist curmudgeon that I proudly am, DO NOT WANT to injure the decent GOs, Chilcotin Hillbilly, Bear Valley and many others.

NOBODY wins by continual fighting among we non-aboriginal hunters, so, let's step carefully and act together as I DO NOT TRUST ANY government.

[walks with deer]

Hmm well I don't think any attacks on dan are just I am simply looking at what's going on and in theory am thinking I would but in 5-6 k for a tag every year.especially with building a small place to stay...

Dan is clearly very envolved and trying to keep some options...

I am not sure I fully agree with this but I am definately not aginst pushing some options..

This is almost a hot enough item to have a meeting on.

[Whonnock Boy]

Just clarifying....


200 people to pay $1000 each to collectively own a territory and then each owner gets a tag once every 5 years


5-6 k for a tag every year.

[danbrooks]

I realize this is just a hypothetical discussion here, but I am firmly opposed to RH's purchasing territories. IMO, we need to solve the root of the problems, not attempt to fix with band aid solutions. Respectfully....
I agree with you on the band aid comment whole-heartedly. But don't forget, I'm a resident hunter and I own a territory. I'd rather every territory was owned by a resident hunter than a non-resident. Or maybe that's not what you meant, that territories shouldn't be owned by groups of resident hunters, which is probably right since then you can circumvent LEH and that might become a problem if it gets too big. But in any case, the GO's are blind to the real problem within their industry by their obsession with the value of their territories being affected. They won't fix it themselves. So how do we force the situation.

[Ohwildwon]

Thanks for all your information Dan!

I just spilled my popcorn over my thousand bucks!:wink:

Lets keep this dialog going...

[walks with deer]

Wonnock boy I some what agree with you but you seem more like whiney boy on this subject..

Guides have money... if we don't slow them down more tags will be sold to them..

Sadly you say push them out and go back to the old days but reality is we are not United enough.

Sadly guides will bribe and we will loose.

I do not fully agree with this model but hey I like moose meat.

If you are better educated on a model to beat them back in am all ears...

Guides worry about there business they don't give a f about us who want to just eat.

[Whonnock Boy]

Uuuuhhhh ya.... My comment was an attempt at being respectful to the other respondents. Don't know why you came out at level 7 with the reply. Do I have the answers that will pull us all out of this funk, including wildlife. Not entirely, but I believe we are laying the ground work as we speak. It won't happen over night, and it will be a long road for recovery, but I think it can be done.



Wonnock boy I some what agree with you but you seem more like whiney boy on this subject..

Guides have money... if we don't slow them down more tags will be sold to them..

Sadly you say push them out and go back to the old days but reality is we are not United enough.

Sadly guides will bribe and we will loose.

I do not fully agree with this model but hey I like moose meat.

If you are better educated on a model to beat them back in am all ears...

Guides worry about there business they don't give a f about us who want to just eat.

[Asco]

Checking back in here in January after my posts last summer/ fall

After meeting Dan in October I am fully convinced that he is absolutely against the GOABC and the commercializing of guiding territories for the financial gain and private enjoyment of foreigners. He is a stand up guy and committed to what most of us believe is the best or wildlife and hunters in BC.

I like the idea of co-op style ownership of outfitter territories. Can't be that hard to set it up. Anybody a lawyer on here? The administration would cost something annually but.... As far as I can tell anybody who can spend a week or three moose hunting has $1000 to his name. Especially if its going to get him guaranteed moose opportunities.

Lets set it up. I'm in.

[Gateholio]

Assuming the territory has some sort of facilities (like cabins etc) attached to it, you would probably do better with 20 hunters putting in $10K than 200 putting in $1K each.

[Asco]

A good friend of mine was looking at the possibility of buying a territory. From what I understand they are more like $500k to $1.5M

it would be a cool movement it the combined power of resident hunters could secure many of the territories. I'm still thinking co-op style. A sure tag every few years in addition to leh. With several territories would come political clout to help push the government in the right direction on issues of hunting, access, allocation and wildlife management.

[walks with deer]

Gate I I had 20 co owners a long weekend we could build 4 comfy cabins on the cheap

[walks with deer]

Asco thanks for the resposense so how much did it come to

[albravo2]

I don't really know what to think on this one.

I think the allocation sucks, but I have respect for outfitters like BearValley and Chilcotin Hillbilly. Based on what I've seen them post, they strike me as reasonable guys trying to feed their families, live their dreams, and manage wildlife in a way that doesn't threaten their lifestyies.

I also respect Dan, and he strikes me as a decent man. If his hate for GOABC is legit, I won't question his moosecamp idea, or the fact that he posted lots of pics and info about hunting in another guide's territory.

Who to believe?

[Huevos]

Interesting idea coming from an outfitter. I wonder how you would feel if 100 hunters showed up on your doorstep and attempted to destroy your livelihood. Something you are willing to do to any of them. Shows real character!
[QUOTE=danbrooks;1864159]I like your idea too! I learned one thing this past year from all the persecution, nothing hurts an outfitter like exposing where and how to hunt his territory! Boy did that get a reaction! Who wants to go hunting with me next summer? Let's get 100 guys and flood a territory this fall![/QU

[bearvalley]

I like your idea too! I learned one thing this past year from all the persecution, nothing hurts an outfitter like exposing where and how to hunt his territory! Boy did that get a reaction! Who wants to go hunting with me next summer? Let's get 100 guys and flood a territory this fall!


Interesting idea coming from an outfitter. I wonder how you would feel if 100 hunters showed up on your doorstep and attempted to destroy your livelihood. Something you are willing to do to any of them. Shows real character!

This could get entertaining now that the guy that ran Dan's outfitting show while Dan was away being a politician has joined in.
Have at it Huevos!

[f350ps]

This could get entertaining now that the guy that ran Dan's outfitting show while Dan was away being a politician has joined in.
Have at it Huevos!
A disgruntled employee, that gets old real quick! K

[bearvalley]

A disgruntled employee, that gets old real quick! K
Lol.
You are probably right but Huevos does bring up a good point.
Dan would probably want to puke if Huevos rounded up 100 guys to specifically target GOS spike/fork bulls in his area.
Dans schemes are a product of his personal agenda brought on by his hatred of GOABC.
Wildlife sustainability or well being is obviously not in part of the plan.
Im not on the GOABC team but I'm not buying Dan's line either.

[Gateholio]

I don't really know what to think on this one.

I think the allocation sucks, but I have respect for outfitters like BearValley and Chilcotin Hillbilly. Based on what I've seen them post, they strike me as reasonable guys trying to feed their families, live their dreams, and manage wildlife in a way that doesn't threaten their lifestyies.

I also respect Dan, and he strikes me as a decent man. If his hate for GOABC is legit, I won't question his moosecamp idea, or the fact that he posted lots of pics and info about hunting in another guide's territory.

Who to believe?

Who to belive? None are actually wrong in what they say.

[Drillbit]

Instead of buying an area....

Could HBC lottery in, more money=more hunts, and the winner would get a guided hunt.

Then, the winner would enjoy a guided hunt and then report the specifics of the hunt and the area here.

Way cheaper to pay a bit and expose an area to resident hunters, then have them buy it and pay taxes on it.

[Bonz]

i think the less people in that idea for buying a territory is better. less guys, but pay more each.,,,more people, brings more issues
or t wont work. you`ll have fights right away on who`s first or who brought in buddies or many other spats, kinda like starting a bussiness with a friend. usualy dont work out

[bearvalley]

i think the less people in that idea for buying a territory is better. less guys, but pay more each.,,,more people, brings more issues
or t wont work. you`ll have fights right away on who`s first or who brought in buddies or many other spats, kinda like starting a bussiness with a friend. usualy dont work out
First fight will probably be over who gets to be the outfitter.
The concept has merit but if such a plan ever falls into place it had best have some management.
A Section 61 will wipe out all dreams and profits in a hurry.

[dellis]

Lol - OK Guys, BC Moose Camp is not owned by Americans, nor is it a devilish plot by GOABC. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm a pure bred British Columbian, and I hate GOABC more passionately than any of you can imagine. Want to hear me rant about it... probably not, but I'm burning up with hate hate hate... anyways.

I launched BCMooseCamp.com to do two things. (and if you have questions how it works just go read the website BCMooseCamp.com - register to get all the info, it's too much to try to explain here)

First - offer back to resident hunters outfitter quota. The allocation that screwed residents out of thousands of tags is grossly unfair - agree? I just got my quota, between the two guide areas I operate we now get 164 Bulls in 5 years, no more than 49 in one year - averages to about 33 bulls per year. We typically take between 10 and 20, I've never exceeded 20. What to do with those extra tags? What to do ... Well, I could sit on them like a scrooge, or I could give them to my friends and family like lots of other outfitters, or I could offer them to resident hunters. We have costs associated with it, it's not free, but I'm making it as cheap as I possibly can for resident hunters. And for the record, I was only able to sell 4 self-guided hunts at the end of the day, and they all got their bulls, two real nice trophies too! Had lots more sold until GOABC got to them... but that's another story.

Second - this is the most controversial - I'm poking a stick in the eye of GOABC and their misguided lobbying and hypocrisy. They are ruining outfitting in this province and I mean to fight back. By selling self-guided hunts to americans, I can sell moose hunts at a fraction the price of guided hunts. And it became possible because GOABC lobbied to take control of the assistant guide licensing - including removing the requirement that the guide be a canadian citizen. By doing so, they now make it possible for wealthy foreigners to buy hunting territories and guide themselves. That's what they want, but they don't want cheap self-guided hunts - it scares the hell out of them that anyone be allowed to openly self guide- because if you can self guide, why do you need a guide at all - and that would spell the end of guiding in BC. And that's my point - I won't stop selling self-guided hunts until Govt reinstates the requirement that guides be canadian, and even then I'll probably still sell to residents so don't worry.

You see, hunting territories aren't territories for hunting any more, now they are real estate that you can legally collude to manufacture values by changing something that you don't actually own - QUOTA. That's right, outfitters don't own their quota, they own exclusive rights to guide, and quota isn't included in your guide certificate- but outfitters act like they do own it, it's standard speak in the industry myself included - didn't I say I got "my quota" - tell an outfitter he doesn't actually own his quota and you're likely to get punched in the nose, I almost did when I pointed it out to a competitor who was yelling at me at my booth at a trade show.

It's not about hunting anymore, it's about buying a territory, boost it's quota through allocation, or boost the value of quota by manufacturing false prices (what outfitters sell hunts for and what they tell government they sell hunts for is very very different) and then sell it for more than you bought it for. Allowing non residents to guide exacerbates this problem, each policy that GOABC advocates that makes it easier for foreigners to own a territory is designed to do one thing and one thing only - make more money when they flip the territory. It's an old scam, and it's working - in case you haven't looked into buying a territory recently, they are not priced as a business, as such they aren't viable, they are priced as a fantasy hunting preserve. The model is BrOkEn! And it's getting harder and harder for British Columbians that want to become an outfitter to get into the business. And don't kid yourself, outfitters have been doing self-guided hunting under the table for decades - they just called it "wrangling". Foreigners go "wrangling" for an outfitter, outfitter gets free labour and throws him in a free moose hunt at the end to pay him. Happens all the time...

And what do I get for my efforts? At this point GOABC has gotten me kicked out of one sportshow, has another 3 shows that won't let me advertise BCMooseCamp such that I dropped out of them too, I may not be able to advertise in the hunting regs next go around either (new standards that my ad no longer meets.. I wonder what that is?) - plus I've been investigated by the CO service for illegal guiding, I've endured vicious personal attacks, further false accusations that led to more CO investigations, falsified news articles, thousands in legal bills to prove I'm legal, and even personal threats.

In the meantime, if you don't get your moose draw this spring contact me and I'll do what I can. Wish I could hunt with you all, that's just not possible, but I believe EVERY HUNTER SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HUNT MOOSE! Maybe I can make a difference to one hunter, I suppose that's good enough for me to keep on doing it.

Dan

Much respect for what you are doing Dan. Good outfitters(and I know a few) need the support of resident hunters, and vice versa, as we are all looking for the same thing. Continued quality hunting experiences that you don't have to be wealthy or win a lottery to participate in. We are better off grouping together rather that divided. Otherwise, in near future, the only people hunting in BC will be the wealthy, and those with status cards.

Darcy

[Whonnock Boy]

I believe this is what it boils down to. Even those that can afford a $1000 to pool together, are alienating those who cannot. What will the consequences be? Division? Increased value of remaining territories? What if government/goabc formulate a plan to kibosh these attempts, and change legislation? Will some "invest" in RH territories for profit? Will other wildlife suffer with the added stress of nothing but RH's hunting the area? (A non-resident won't shoot a young buck, but plenty of RH's will, whitetail does too!) What happens if RH's lobby government into lowering allocation percentages to guide outifitters? Will the RH territory owners begin to advocate for their allocation against the majority of RH'? Slippery slope my friends. Slippery slope.....

Continued quality hunting experiences that you don't have to be wealthy or win a lottery to participate in.

[Wild one]

Personally I would like to see the GO industry run by BC resident(Canadian at the min) only. That said I don't promote TWF in any industry in BC. In a small industry like the GO industry I am against forgin ownership as well. Small industries in our country should be kept Canadian benefiting the Canadian economy with employment and keeping most of the $ generated local. My personal opinion and goes beyond the GO industry

I would agree with Dan 100% the territories are being sold a highly unreasonable prices compared to the $ they generate as a business. In the past I have looked into purchasing a GO territory. Through this learned about the realistic number of hunts sold each year for each species and that some BC hunts basically cannot be sold. Reality of it is only select species and locations in BC offer the quality of hunt customers want. Once you add in running costs profits are piss poor compared to the cost of a GO territory. I chose not to invest my $ in this industry for good reason

I could see a large portion of the GO fight for increased allocation is to do no more than add false value to the territory. The fact that not 1 of the territories I look into purchasing even came close to selling enough hunts to use the tags they had through allocation. This was before the resent allocation increase so why did they need the increase?

Really makes a guy wonder if the whole allocation issue is less about selling hunts and more about increasing the value of the territory only.

I have no issue with BC having a GO industry but it does seem like the pressent industry needs a gutting

To those who are in the industry as a honest business or employee I wish you the best and mean no disrespect

[Asco]

I believe this is what it boils down to. Even those that can afford a $1000 to pool together, are alienating those who cannot. What will the consequences be? Division? Increased value of remaining territories? What if government/goabc formulate a plan to kibosh these attempts, and change legislation? Will some "invest" in RH territories for profit? Will other wildlife suffer with the added stress of nothing but RH's hunting the area? (A non-resident won't shoot a young buck, but plenty of RH's will, whitetail does too!) What happens if RH's lobby government into lowering allocation percentages to guide outifitters? Will the RH territory owners begin to advocate for their allocation against the majority of RH'? Slippery slope my friends. Slippery slope.....



Slippery slopes indeed. You bring up some very good points as does BV for that matter. Is allocation at the heart of this? Or is it the FN hunt (no real controls or harvest reports)?

For that matter we can go to blame the biologists...but it's not really them it's the politicians. And THEY know less about game animals in BC than any of us (GO's, FN's, hunters, biologists)

I certainly don't have the answers, I was just throwing an idea out there.