Should the LEH be extended for those that missed out?

[Cyrus]

technical difficulties seemed to do a lot of people in for the draw...so simple poll yes or no.

[swampdonkey]

Nope . Snooze you looze

[lip_ripper00]

Nope, suck it up butter cup.

[JohnS]

Nope, suck it up butter cup.


LMAO!! that's what I was thinking ......

[nature girl]

No if you were a fool and waited till the last couple days then so sorry. Its like the people that shop the day before xmas and every years it' s the same day.

[Whonnock Boy]

Odd.... the percentages fall in line with the other poll being conducted regarding getting the LEH in on time. lol

[caddisguy]

Just a neutral observation from browsing forums and FB today, it seems the "Yay! I got mine in... you snooze you lose neener-neener I'm a keener" camp is more riled up over the site woes for those who waited until last minute than the ones who waited are... the ones that waited until last minute seem to have gotten over it already.

Hate me for pointing it out, or hate me because I am beautiful... your pick!! One thing for sure though smug is not sexy... try and be a little humble guys and gals :)

[Gr8 white hunter]

Get your Mommy's to do them for you next year.

[randymac]

had to vote no as you didnt have a "**** no" option

[tinhorse]

Nothing to to be humble about until the draw is done and some of those keeners actually get a draw. I think it's actually such a small percentage of hunters that didn't get it in that it won't make a massive difference, little difference maybe...... Time will tell.


Just a neutral observation from browsing forums and FB today, it seems the "Yay! I got mine in... you snooze you lose neener-neener I'm a keener" camp is more riled up over the site woes for those who waited until last minute than the ones who waited are... the ones that waited until last minute seem to have gotten over it already.

Hate me for pointing it out, or hate me because I am beautiful... your pick!! One thing for sure though smug is not sexy... try and be a little humble guys and gals :)

[chinooker]

It boils down to if it's important to you you will get your shit together!! If you waited till last minute it's obviously not a priority.

[Rhyno]

I have zero.....zero sympathy for those who waited until the last minute and couldn't get their draws in because the system was overwhelmed.

In case you can't figure it out I say hell NO!

[caddisguy]

Nothing to to be humble about until the draw is done and some of those keeners actually get a draw. I think it's actually such a small percentage of hunters that didn't get it in that it won't make a massive difference, little difference maybe...... Time will tell.

Well there are limits to being humble... either of us in the caddis camp get our doe draws I'll be doing back-flips all around HBC (in the most non-smug way possible) !

I would guess based on the polls it was around 5-10% impacted. Not many, but still unfortunate. I'll still feel for those who had issues with the site on the last day though. It was a poorly planned project, resulting in a flakey site and no effort to fix known issues. Won't catch me rubbing salt on those wounded like many. Keeping it classy here but feeling kind of disturbed watching hunters tear down other hunters... brutal... makes me wonder if it was a social experiment to get hunters to tear apart other hunters when when the government craps the bed... they're probably getting practicing for new allocation policies lol

I'm thinking my 15 years of working in systems architecture, hosting and managing similar projects and 20 in IT total makes it hit home with me more than most. Jaw dropping to say the least. I don't think I have seen anything that bad, private or public sector. Sometimes things aren't spec'd out great initially but it's caught either during QA or failing that, addressed promptly if it does not become apparent until production.

[Andrewh]

I am not going to vote in this poll until just before the deadline...

[reach]

I voted yes. Of course I agree you can and should sidestep the whole issue by doing your entries a little ahead of time. But if the draw closes at 11:59 p.m. you should be able to enter at 11:58 p.m. Moving the goalposts is not fair. Website issues are not the applicants' fault.

[Paulyman]

I voted yes. Of course I agree you can and should sidestep the whole issue by doing your entries a little ahead of time. But if the draw closes at 11:59 p.m. you should be able to enter at 11:58 p.m. Moving the goalposts is not fair. Website issues are not the applicants' fault.

Exactly! For many they tried for hours with no luck.

To those that say no I ask what is the magic cutoff time? What if the server was half the capacity of the one they used and the crash started in the morning of the Friday?

First year of this new system people.

[ROY-alty33]

The only difference between this year and years past, is this year you know your procrastination cost you your shot at the LEH draw. People put it off and wait until the last minute every year, and people get bit in the ass by it every year I am sure. Does it suck ballz sure does, anything that can be done about it this year, nope.

[metalface]

Caddis any experience w govt infrastructure? I'm guessing it means old ass legacy systems that simply aren't that easy to scale up performance when needed. like they build the system and Pray the server holds up. In this case it didn't. But hopefully it will prove to some budget committee somewhere that it'll need an upgrade next year. A lot of ppl seemed to see it comin tho.... Wait til draw results start getting released and people are checking those. Half of Victoria will probly explode.

[Paulyman]

Just a neutral observation from browsing forums and FB today, it seems the "Yay! I got mine in... you snooze you lose neener-neener I'm a keener" camp is more riled up over the site woes for those who waited until last minute than the ones who waited are... the ones that waited until last minute seem to have gotten over it already.

Hate me for pointing it out, or hate me because I am beautiful... your pick!! One thing for sure though smug is not sexy... try and be a little humble guys and gals :)
The gentlemanly approach that many others should have taken, good on you buddy

[srthomas75]

Do people feel bad for others in years past that would mail in their applications with a day or two to spare? Not all those entries made it into the barrel. It's not like the deadline should come as a surprise to people. We only have 6 or so weeks to get our ducks in a row.

[Mulehahn]

Do people feel bad for others in years past that would mail in their applications with a day or two to spare? Not all those entries made it into the barrel. It's not like the deadline should come as a surprise to people. We only have 6 or so weeks to get our ducks in a row.

I feel bad for the guy mailed it 2 weeks before the deadline and it still doesn't make it. That is basically what this amounts to. Average mail is 3 - 5 days in this province. Doubling and Leaving 10 days is reasonable. Average time for information to be entered and sent via the internet, say a couple minutes. So if you double that, say 11:50pm. I know guys who tried in the morning, then when they got home, then before bed. The system was down every time.

Similar systems to this have been set up across North America, including States where the population of hunters is greater then the entire population of BC. They can get the system to work. They weren't re-inventing the wheel here. No, they should not reopen the draw, but the simple fact of the matter is that they shouldn't have to. The LEH Deadline was supposed to be 11:59pm May 27. They just forgot to say that their would be a lottery starting for the final 48 hours to see who would be able to apply.

I got my draws in, but truly feel bad for all those that didn't. My only real question now is, who are all those people who are saying you should of applied sooner going to blame when they still don't get their draw? Can't be the mailman as they have proof they application was recieved, Can't be the draw itself because the system worked for them, and can't be other hunters as about 10% didn't even get to put in. Will be interesting!

[SR80]

nope..sorry

[caddisguy]

Caddis any experience w govt infrastructure? I'm guessing it means old ass legacy systems that simply aren't that easy to scale up performance when needed. like they build the system and Pray the server holds up.

I can really only say that not all projects are painted with the same brush or the same canvas. I suspect LEH project did not include the same priorities or standards as most. Maybe understandable as there are more important projects, but I am a believer in doing it right or not doing it at all.

[Stresd]

With two days left until the deadline I e-mailed the other 3 members of my party our leh #'s. Even though we are all old farts in 50's and 60's, all except one were able to navigate the bceid and leh web site and get our entries in. The one exception finally just said screw the puter and went to the Guildford office and did it in person.
Not that really that tough guys. No excuse for not being able to get them in on time. (Thats If you really wanted to)!

[digger dogger]

Nope, pay attention!

[XPEIer]

Nope, I left a draw tag till the very last of the season, never filled it.... maybe they should have extended the season so I could have been successful.

We all heard about the problems with the system, so why would you not get them in early.

xpeier

[itsy bitsy xj]

NOPE
I got mine in ( got WSS to do it for me) my cousin kept putting it off and never got it done so
"too bad sooo sad"

[Glenny]

I'm a sporting guy so I voted yes. I do feel for the guys that tried and tried to no avail.:-| Good ruck fellow hunters.

[sarg]

If you dump enough to leave it till the last minute then you get what you deserve, better luck next year

[Slug Slayer]

5 hours is by no means the "last minute". I'm guessing a bunch of you just used a dartboard to make your LEH selections and that an extension should be granted for those that actually put some legwork into it.

[sarg]

5 hours is by no means the "last minute". I'm guessing a bunch of you just used a dartboard to make your LEH selections and that an extension should be granted for those that actually put some legwork into it.
My legworks starts at the end of the season, come leh time I already know where I'm putting in for. Usually the First or second day of the LEH'S being out my cards (now on line) were filled out and mailed ( now applied on line) for the last 8 or so years

[Slug Slayer]

That's a silly approach Sarg. You really should read the LEH synopsis. You'll find that the hunts with different colored text and no odds are brand new and sometimes can be really worthwhile.

[Andrewh]

That's a silly approach Sarg.

It's a better approach than not getting entered into the draw at all...

I'll take Sarg's approach over yours any day!

[reach]

You really need something from a store that closes at 6. Maybe some supplies for a hunting trip early the next day. You plan your day so you can get to the store in time after you're done work and whatever else you need to do. You show up at 5:30 but whoops, the store closed at 5 today even though they said they'd be open until 6. Too bad, so sad, should've gone earlier in the day.

How would you feel about that?

[Darksith]

I suspect there are more that didn't get in that we think. Will be interesting to see the odds once the results are released...I am involved with about 15 people getting their LEH generally...probably had 5 outta the ten not care enough to bother

That being said I really don't care or

[sarg]

That's a silly approach Sarg. You really should read the LEH synopsis. You'll find that the hunts with different colored text and no odds are brand new and sometimes can be really worthwhile.
It's not a silly approach at all. Any serious Hunter know witch area's that they want to put in for in advance, so once the leh synopsis come out you and your group or just you open that sucker up with a map book confirm witch area for sure fill out your stuff and bam your done, nothing silly about that at all.

[j270wsm]

You really need something from a store that closes at 6. Maybe some supplies for a hunting trip early the next day. You plan your day so you can get to the store in time after you're done work and whatever else you need to do. You show up at 5:30 but whoops, the store closed at 5 today even though they said they'd be open until 6. Too bad, so sad, should've gone earlier in the day.

How would you feel about that?

Let me guess, the item you needed is only available at that store......if that's the case then you shouldn't have waited until the last friggen minuet. How many ways does it have to be said. Sh*t happens when you wait until the last day or two before the dead line.

[AgSilver]

What I would like to know is the invisible stat that we'll never know...

1. How many people screwed up the old paper LEH system and didn't get in / didn't sent to the right address / sent it a week or two in advance but CP didn't deliver it on time, etc

vs.

2. How many people weren't able to login and get their draws in at the last minute

They're untrackable stats, but I'm guessing that the latter number is lower than the former...but maybe that's just my youthful exuberance for all things online.

[donnytooslow]

we eat drink and plan hunting every year,we would like process of LEH to start Jan1st and close Jan31! too bad for the snoozers.. lets get going on results...

[reach]

How many ways does it have to be said. Sh*t happens when you wait until the last day or two before the dead line.

"The last day or two" brings up another interesting question. Is it a day? Or two days? How about a week? 3 weeks? How long before the deadline does the system have to be non functional before you agree the government needs to take some of the blame? :)

[Slug Slayer]

" How long before the deadline does the system have to be non functional before you agree the government needs to take some of the blame? :)


Exactly! At some point every one will be pissed off!

[Good2bCanadian]

System should have worked up until 11:59:59
Gov ***ked up

With the draw getting pushed back and delayed year after year, to think this would go smooth would be idiotic.

What if your home computer crashed or the power went out that last evening of the draw?
Those that waited made a mistake. All in with no back up plan.

BC Resident Hunter gets screwed once again!!!!

[AgSilver]

"The last day or two" brings up another interesting question. Is it a day? Or two days? How about a week? 3 weeks? How long before the deadline does the system have to be non functional before you agree the government needs to take some of the blame? :)

Another question is raised...how much do we want the government to spend on administering the IT and laying the infrastructure for maximum load for a system that's available for over a month before the deadline?

Should a store be fully staffed right at closing "just in case" 50 people run in at 10 to 6?

[Slug Slayer]

Should a store be fully staffed right at closing "just in case" 50 people run in at 10 to 6?

Poor analogy, this ain't a brick and mortar shop.

[Moose63]

My instinct was to vote no. But my heart was to vote yes and I did vote yes. I'm thinking about some hunters and I personally know a few that are computer illiterate or don't own a computer. Or do you kick a hunter when he's down and outta luck?

Remember, we hunters are a minority in this province and we need to stick together. The majority would ban hunting outright.

We need to support each other....

[swampdonkey]

My instinct was to vote no. But my heart was to vote yes and I did vote yes. I'm thinking about some hunters and I personally know a few that are computer illiterate or don't own a computer. Or do you kick a hunter when he's down and outta luck?

Remember, we hunters are a minority in this province and we need to stick together. The majority would ban hunting outright.

We need to support each other....
Maybe some are computer illiterate. But you can still go to a service bc or sporting goods store and get it done

[Coachman]

I forgot last year and took my lumps with no draws entered for me, my wife, my brother or my daughter. Still have the cards that I will send in for a refund.

Put in with plenty of time this year. No problems.

For anyone that left it to the last minute, like I did last year and screwed up, ....

Don't shoot yourself in the foot, and then bitch that you only have 9 toes left.

[GotaGun]

Nope.
You could have done it from anywhere in the world if you had Internet.
If not could have had a friend do it for you.

[GotaGun]

My instinct was to vote no. But my heart was to vote yes and I did vote yes. I'm thinking about some hunters and I personally know a few that are computer illiterate or don't own a computer. Or do you kick a hunter when he's down and outta luck?

Remember, we hunters are a minority in this province and we need to stick together. The majority would ban hunting outright.

We need to support each other....

Not stopping you from hunting.
Just no LEH.

[AgSilver]

Poor analogy, this ain't a brick and mortar shop.

I disagree. The principle is the same. Do we spend money on infrastructure for a system that, 98% of the time, doesn't need it just to support some people who didn't have their affairs in order in advance?

Does a store need to pay for the staffing to have people in place just in case people come in right before closing?

Analogy is sound.

[monasheemountainman]

I say no....people could have gone in and applied in person this one last time

[j270wsm]

I never once said the system was perfect( actually said it had issues, could have been in a different thread) but come on.......were these people born yesterday?

Have they never experienced a web site that's screwed up and weren't able to access it? It's 2016, the dam Internet has been around long enough that people should expect it to screw up when there is higher than normal activity. If leh was that important to these people then maybe they should have taken advantage of the first 55days they had to apply. Instead they wait until, what I'd consider, the last minuet. Then bitch and moan that the magical internet screwed them and that they should move the deadline.

[Daybreak]

Here's a scenario;

Bob the taxpayer, who owes on his tax return, is given the option to file (submit) his 2015 tax return online no later than 11:59 on April 30 2015.

Like thousands of other Canadians the filing is left to the last evening for a variety of reasons, some valid, some not so valid. Irregardless, he is assured he has until that date and time to file without penalty.

At 10:00 pm, Bob and ten thousand others across Canada are unable to file because the CRA website could not handle the predictable volume of traffic. Midnight passes and they are now delinquent in their taxes and the interest clock is rolling.

Do you think that the Federal Government would pardon those who were locked out and offer an extension of the deadline due to their systems failure to operate as assured? Would the fact that it was tens of thousands of people , Canada wide and from all walks of life influence the decision as opposed to perhaps 500 "hunters" limited to BC only.

IMO, the Canada wide disapproval would be great enough to substantiate an extension. But here in BC, no one in the Ministry of Natural Resources is going to admit their system failed the same people that paid for it.

The store is either open or it is closed. In this case they allowed the doors to close early without warning. Ours all went in on the afternoon of the last day without a problem. I guess that just makes us lucky.

[ruger#1]

Why do people wait for the last minute?

[warnniklz]

I ended up going screaming into the government building first thing friday morning. Took no time at all. But the line-up behind me built up pretty quick.

[Moe.JKU]

no, you had a month to figure it out.

[Ajsawden]

I just hope that the guys who didn't get in were the only people who were going to put in for the same areas as me. C'mon Island Elk Draw!!

[AgSilver]

Here's a scenario;

Bob the taxpayer, who owes on his tax return, is given the option to file (submit) his 2015 tax return online no later than 11:59 on April 30 2015.

Like thousands of other Canadians the filing is left to the last evening for a variety of reasons, some valid, some not so valid. Irregardless, he is assured he has until that date and time to file without penalty.

At 10:00 pm, Bob and ten thousand others across Canada are unable to file because the CRA website could not handle the predictable volume of traffic. Midnight passes and they are now delinquent in their taxes and the interest clock is rolling.

Do you think that the Federal Government would pardon those who were locked out and offer an extension of the deadline due to their systems failure to operate as assured? Would the fact that it was tens of thousands of people , Canada wide and from all walks of life influence the decision as opposed to perhaps 500 "hunters" limited to BC only.

IMO, the Canada wide disapproval would be great enough to substantiate an extension. But here in BC, no one in the Ministry of Natural Resources is going to admit their system failed the same people that paid for it.

The store is either open or it is closed. In this case they allowed the doors to close early without warning. Ours all went in on the afternoon of the last day without a problem. I guess that just makes us lucky.

You raise an interesting point - CRA did that very thing last year. They had a system wide failure shortly before tax filing and extended the deadline to May 5, if I recall correctly.

I'm not sure that I would put the two items on the same plane, though.

[wideopenthrottle]

had to read the whole thread first but even as someone who takes life pretty casually (not too many things cause me to stress)... there are some things i do not ever leave to the last, er 2nd last er 3rd last second...leh and airports are things I get seriously stressed about leaving "late" ..i will vote yes but only because i think this was the first go around.....I think well enough of all hunters to say even the procrastinating ones deserve a second chance....

[Marlowethelazydog]

This thread is awesome: Jesus folks don't wait until the last minute when dealing with the government, store or whatever other Bullshit examples people came up with and yes, the government should have designed a system that worked. Look! Everybody wins😋

[boxhitch]

I say no....people could have gone in and applied in person this one last timeService or FrontCounter will still be available in the future, not everyone needs/wants a computer. yes, its true !

[boxhitch]

... there are some things i do not ever leave to the last, er 2nd last er 3rd last second...leh and airports are things a get seriously stressed about leaving "late" .....and sex.
Gotta be first and early there too.

[Caribou_lou]

I completed my LEH and helped out 5 friends with theirs also. I don't feel bad for those who left it to the last minute and couldn't complete theirs because of technical difficulties. There was weeks of zero difficulties.

[Paulyman]

Here's a scenario;

Bob the taxpayer, who owes on his tax return, is given the option to file (submit) his 2015 tax return online no later than 11:59 on April 30 2015.

Like thousands of other Canadians the filing is left to the last evening for a variety of reasons, some valid, some not so valid. Irregardless, he is assured he has until that date and time to file without penalty.

At 10:00 pm, Bob and ten thousand others across Canada are unable to file because the CRA website could not handle the predictable volume of traffic. Midnight passes and they are now delinquent in their taxes and the interest clock is rolling.

Do you think that the Federal Government would pardon those who were locked out and offer an extension of the deadline due to their systems failure to operate as assured? Would the fact that it was tens of thousands of people , Canada wide and from all walks of life influence the decision as opposed to perhaps 500 "hunters" limited to BC only.

IMO, the Canada wide disapproval would be great enough to substantiate an extension. But here in BC, no one in the Ministry of Natural Resources is going to admit their system failed the same people that paid for it.

The store is either open or it is closed. In this case they allowed the doors to close early without warning. Ours all went in on the afternoon of the last day without a problem. I guess that just makes us lucky.

You've never dealt with Revenue Canada., They're pussycats compared to the IRS. I've found Revenue Canada very flexible and very accommodating.

Any reasonably intelligent person can negotiate with any organization if they need to, don't be afraid to say your piece and do it nicely, but be firm if you have a case and they will listen. A leh draw is hardly something that requires a hard line to be drawn especially the first year of this new electronic system.

[AgSilver]

You've never dealt with Revenue Canada., They're pussycats compared to the IRA.

And no record of bombing people! (Well, maybe emotionally)

[browningboy]

No, tough shit

[J_T]

As I stated in another thread. The confusion at this point is likely not, about giving people more time to submit, it's about reconciling some of the submissions where people had difficulty, but they have a legitimate submission. Likely a high percentage of the people hoping for an extension, are hoping an application which they started prior to the deadline is deemed valid and for some reason they are concerned it might not be.

I would suspect that for anyone that did it completely on their own, those applications are solid. What Gov may have to reconcile, are those people who went to a vender or service agent. I doubt the Online Hunting system is interfaced with the electronic Government Agent Revenue Management System (eGARMS).

What can and probably did occur, was some submissions went through without payment, and some payments were made without the submission going through. Hung up in the shopping cart, but the offline payment (over-the-counter) was made.

This results from not analyzing SPOF (Single Point of Failure) and developing strategies to ensure they don't happen.

But these are legitimate entries, payments and submissions and they will have to be tidied up before they can run the lottery. As of now, I can predict they know how many of these there are, and they've likely grouped them in to similar categories for action.

[Paulyman]

And no record of bombing people! (Well, maybe emotionally)

Well played sir

[mikek blacktail]

No not in my opinion ,we all had ample time to get them in.Seems lame we have to wait for the people who decided to wait till last minute...

[luckofthedraw]

It's not being extended.

[Fozzie]

Nor should it be

[Fozzie]

Aw crap........I forgot to cast my vote before this poll closes, but I have up until 06-19-2016 at 05:58 PM
so I think I'll wait until 06-19-2016 at 05:57 PM to cast my vote. NOT!!!;

[Slug Slayer]

Nobody that waited till literally the last few minutes is complaining. I tried for five straight hours to get my last application in to no avail. This is clearly an indication that the LEH system was not up to the task especially when they know the maximum number of possible applicants. No big deal though cuz I never get drawn anyway.

[Gateholio]

This poll has had a tremendous turn out with over 350 respondents.

[Spy]

Nobody that waited till literally the last few minutes is complaining. I tried for five straight hours to get my last application in to no avail. This is clearly an indication that the LEH system was not up to the task especially when they know the maximum number of possible applicants. No big deal though cuz I never get drawn anyway.
Im sure if you guys could prove your time spent trying, to no avail they would have helped you out the day after.

[Slug Slayer]

Checking my history of BCEID login attempts will show exactly how long I spent effing around trying to submit my last application. Global TV loves stuff like this!

[Spy]

Checking my history of BCEID login attempts will show exactly how long I spent effing around trying to submit my last application. Global TV loves stuff like this!

Phone them up tomorrow and complain ! Hey you might just get a free draw out of it! ;-) If you can prove it then hey you have a case.. I got my draw in on the 25 so no worries here but I would have been pissed if I was in your position. I did vote No it should not be extended.

[Slug Slayer]

I've been on the phone twice, moving up the chain of command but it doesn't sound like Dan Peterson is willing to discuss the issue. I have way too much invested in this to simply walk away.

[caddisguy]

Nobody that waited till literally the last few minutes is complaining. I tried for five straight hours to get my last application in to no avail. This is clearly an indication that the LEH system was not up to the task especially when they know the maximum number of possible applicants. No big deal though cuz I never get drawn anyway.

Sounds about right. I logged in around 5pm to set up an impulse driven shared moose hunt and it was a bit flakey... had to reload/retry a bunch. Wife tried from 6:30pm onward. It was hosed until midnight. I wasn't too excited about LEH this year (no week long out of town trip like previous years) but I am glad we put in for the draws we really wanted a while back.

Not sure if it was because they used a commodore 64, had bad configuration or really crappy code. Probably a combination of all three. The part that bugs me is that capacity issues were apparent from the beginning and there was no effort (at least that was evident or effective) to rectify the issue. Guessing the project managers, system architects/admins contracts finished the second the site was launched... nobody to fix it, nobody to fire.

Still baffled how in 2016 that such a system could be deployed that could not even handle a portion of BC's hunting population at peak times. I would actually have to go out of my way to pull off that kind of deployment lol

[Slug Slayer]

Yep, that's why I'm going the FOI request route just for fun.

[caddisguy]

Checking my history of BCEID login attempts will show exactly how long I spent effing around trying to submit my last application. Global TV loves stuff like this!

Would be funny if it got some exposure from Global or any media for that matter.

"When asked about how it is even possible create infrastructure/applications that could not handle a portion of a small subset of the population in a Canadian Province and whether or not a Commodore 64 was used, the project manager declined to comment. When further pressed regarding whether the Commodore 64 was used, the project manager stated he could not confirm or deny this allegation"

[caddisguy]

Yep, that's why I'm going the FOI request route just for fun.

If I had a bone to pick I'd go the media route :D Write email, CC them all, make popcorn.

[caddisguy]

Was just thinking... from the poll on HBC to get a representation of how many hunters were affected, if I recall it was about 5%.

How many hunting licenses were sold in BC in 2016? 100000ish?

Lets say 80% of all those hunters participated in LEH.

That would suggest that the website could not service roughly 4000 visitors between 6pm and 12am when the site was reporting that it was too busy and to try back later.

That is an average of 666.666 (holy crap that explains it all) visitors that it needed to accommodate per hour.

Infrastructure that would support anything less than 1000 simultaneous sessions (with 1000 on the low side and something I would recommend for someone who just wanted to host a few Wordpress or Durpal sites) would be considered bare bones in the hosting industry.

The more I think about it, the more I am amazed how such an outage could possibly occur. I'm now leaning more towards a software issue, perhaps database connections not being closed correctly.

[Slug Slayer]

I was told by some lady at LEH that the site was purposely throttled to avoid an overload.

[Whonnock Boy]

A response from the ministry when a friend of mine could not retrieve his group or shared hunt codes on both Thursday and Friday nights. Even though my odds were somewhat lowered for the group moose hunt because of this, I'm still not putting all the blame on the system as I reminded him several times to get it done.

I am sorry that you were unable to access the BC Hunting online service on Friday afternoon/evening.

There is a limit of the number of users at any given time, and we were experiencing high volumes. The BC Hunting service uses a load limiter, which is a tool commonly used with online systems. The draw was open from April 25th, providing hunters 5 weeks to apply. In that time hunters submitted over 160,000 applications.

Unfortunately we are unable to accept your application, as the deadline has passed.

Regards

Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations

[caddisguy]

I was told by some lady at LEH that the site was purposely throttled to avoid an overload.

There are generally maximum connection limits on both the web and database side of things. I usually have my web servers set for 1024 simultaneous connections. Generally production environments are load balanced for redundancy and have several nodes serving that number. Serving 10-20k sessions per hour shouldn't be a big deal.

Can't do 4000 over 6 hours? Ouch.

[Slug Slayer]

160,000? That's it? They should have easily been able to handle that many requests in the last half hour unless they are really using a Commodore 64. Pathetic!

[caddisguy]

160,000? That's it? They should have easily been able to handle that many requests in the last half hour unless they are really using a Commodore 64. Pathetic!

And that 160,000 was from April 25th until present. Multiple LEH's (average 2-3 per LEH participant?) submitted by the same hunter would have likely been done within the same session. Being able to handle 10-20k sessions per hour is nothing. For seasonal things like LEH, VM's make the most sense as they are scalable. For that one month out of the year, you have a half dozen VM's with 16 cores and maybe 64GB for the web and database cluster. For the rest of the year, you scale that back down to 2 web VM's and 2 database VM's with 2 cores and 8GB ram each... a few clicks of a button the resources are reallocated and you're no longer using/paying for them. Heck it's not hard to configure infrastructure that scales itself up and down automatically like that. Even if they went with all physical nodes, hardware to handle that could have been bought out for 15-20k and had a 5 year lifecycle. It was either the worst case of incompetency I have seen in my 20 IT years or it was intentional.

[Spy]

Yep, that's why I'm going the FOI request route just for fun.
So what are you asking for? I think it's a great idea please keep us informed.

[1899]

Was just thinking... from the poll on HBC to get a representation of how many hunters were affected, if I recall it was about 5%.

How many hunting licenses were sold in BC in 2016? 100000ish?

Lets say 80% of all those hunters participated in LEH.

That would suggest that the website could not service roughly 4000 visitors between 6pm and 12am when the site was reporting that it was too busy and to try back later.

That is an average of 666.666 (holy crap that explains it all) visitors that it needed to accommodate per hour.

Infrastructure that would support anything less than 1000 simultaneous sessions (with 1000 on the low side and something I would recommend for someone who just wanted to host a few Wordpress or Durpal sites) would be considered bare bones in the hosting industry.

The more I think about it, the more I am amazed how such an outage could possibly occur. I'm now leaning more towards a software issue, perhaps database connections not being closed correctly.

What makes you think that they didn't service, say 50,000 applications out of the 160,000 total in the last 6 hours, and the 4000 was just the small amount that didn't happen to get in?

[Spy]

And that 160,000 was from April 25th until present. Multiple LEH's (average 2-3 per LEH participant?) submitted by the same hunter would have likely been done within the same session. Being able to handle 10-20k sessions per hour is nothing. For seasonal things like LEH, VM's make the most sense as they are scalable. For that one month out of the year, you have a half dozen VM's with 16 cores and maybe 64GB for the web and database cluster. For the rest of the year, you scale that back down to 2 web VM's and 2 database VM's with 2 cores and 8GB ram each... a few clicks of a button the resources are reallocated and you're no longer using/paying for them. Heck it's not hard to configure infrastructure that scales itself up and down automatically like that. Even if they went with all physical nodes, hardware to handle that could have been bought out for 15-20k and had a 5 year lifecycle. It was either the worst case of incompetency I have seen in my 20 IT years or it was intentional.

You should hook up with slugger with the FOI to get the answers.

[caddisguy]

What makes you think that they didn't service, say 50,000 applications out of the 160,000 total in the last 6 hours, and the 4000 was just the small amount that didn't happen to get in?

There was a poll on HBC (a good representation for hunters, perhaps even weighting more on the online-LEH side) asking how many didn't get their draws in because of the outage which was from around 6:00pm to 12:00am. Last I checked it was only around 5%. One could play devils advocate that some where actually able to get in during that time, but I have not heard a significant number of success stories.

[caddisguy]

You should hook up with slugger with the FOI to get the answers.

I'm happy to play IT consultant for anyone who needs info about infrastructure/hosting/etc. I wouldn't want to give my name for any sort of publicity or end up having some embarrassed/disgruntled contractor removing my LEH draws from the database lol

[jamfarm]

The OP's original question is irrelevant, you're not going to get drawn for anything anyways.

[Spy]

I'm happy to play IT consultant for anyone who needs info about infrastructure/hosting/etc. I wouldn't want to give my name for any sort of publicity or end up having some embarrassed/disgruntled contractor removing my LEH draws from the database lol
Don't blame you I don't know why I even entered the LEH as I will never get drawn again after adding my name to the protest permit we had in Victoria last year! ;-)

[Lastcar]

The OP's original question is irrelevant, you're not going to get drawn for anything anyways.

Judging by all the posts bitching about X number of years time X number of applications and 0 draws everytime the results are posted, neither are many others. ;-)

[b.c hunter 88]

nope had lots of time also could go into a gov office if it didn't work online besides one of my local draws are 254 to 1 odds gotta narrow this down some how lol i also get mine in the first week there out

[Ltbullken]

Got all my LEH apps in via online. Made an error on one of them, contacted Service BC as per the website, describing my problem. I was told my selection would be okay even after the deadline cuz I got into the cue before the deadline. I was contacted by Wildinfo with the issue, I told them the change I needed, now 3 days after the deadline and later that day I got notification that my LEH app was corrected. All's well. Didn't wait to the last minute. Thankfully. FYI, you can go to the Service BC Counter or one of the agents like WSS to get them done as well.

[j270wsm]

How would going into service bc or another vendor help? If I'm unable to access the online leh page at home why would they be able to, after all they use your info and apply online for you.

We all agree that the system wasn't capable of handling the volume of people trying to apply for leh.

[dbergen69]

System seemed great to me. Most of my draws were done early. I did one on Friday the 27th. No issues. I must have been the only guy to get in on Friday. :)

[Fella]

I got mine in on Friday no problem!