SPOT Gen3 - Messages into oblivion?

[caddisguy]

My wife and mom pooled in to purchase me a SPOT for Christmas. I have taken it on a couple of trips now and the results left me a little bit concerned.

First trip: With 30 minute tracking enabled and the SPOT on my dash, after an hour and a half of highway and couple stops along the way and 45 minutes of dirt road, only one tracking message was recorded in Aldergrove area, about 20 mins into my trip. The LED indicator for "last message went succesfully" was always green, never red. Further to this, the tracking notices are numbered and plotted on a map on the SPOT website. There was a gap of 3 numbers. I am not sure if the notices are numbered from the device or the site, but it is evident that whichever (device or site) failed, it "thought" the tracks existed.

Second trip: I decided to leave the SPOT turned off for this trip and use it to send messages only but not actively track me. I had a pre-configured Check-in/OK message, which basically said "All is well. If you get this message 3x in 1hr it means BEAR DOWN". Well, we got our bear and before calling it a night, I sent out the notice to announce our victory. I sent the message 5 times 10 minutes apart, just to be sure. The "last message sent" LED lit green each time. Only 2 out of the 5 messages were actually received (it was set to go to 3 email addresses and my phone, all only received 2)

Should I be calling them on it and seeking a full refund? For me, the tracking and OK messages are novelties, but I do want to know that if I ever need to send an SOS that it will work. If I am out stuck somewhere -20C and a broken leg, having a jammer, etc, I can't imagine pressing that button knowing the odds of the message getting out are 2/5. Yikes.

[RiverOtter]

I'd much prefer to be with "In-Reach", when my life depended on it.

Maybe not what you want to hear, but I'd cut my losses and dump the Spot.....

[Travalanche]

Well that's discouraging just ordered one 2 days ago FFS. I talked to the SAR in Golden and they said they have rescued many people using spot but recommended inreach (only because the two way coms) but the price wasn't quite inreach for me. Just wanted something that will do the job. From what you are experiencing I'm a little nervous now. Will have mine this week and do some trials to compare to what you are seeing. Maybe you just got a dud?

[albravo2]

I'd much prefer to be with "In-Reach", when my life depended on it.

Maybe not what you want to hear, but I'd cut my losses and dump the Spot.....

I've had similar issues with my InReach, although the failure rate is lower.

I spend hours and hours with tech support a couple summers ago and the best they could do was tell me to ensure to sync my contacts with my InReach account, rather than just entering a phone number from in my cell phone. That helped, but I still don't trust it 100% and I use it less than I used to.

Sucks, because after a few lost messages if you don't receive a confirming response within 15 minutes you really start to wonder if the message was sent.

[scotty30-06]

My spot seems to work fine for messages....i found the trick is to give it plenty of time to work....and open patch of sky also helps

[Jagermeister]

I have had this discussion several times before. Spot is only as good as the person behind it, same goes for inreach. Being human, most think the unit is fallible before considering ones-self.

[caddisguy]

I have had this discussion several times before. Spot is only as good as the person behind it, same goes for inreach. Being human, most think the unit is fallible before considering ones-self.

What could the human error in this case be then?

1/5 tracking messages went through on the highway... never a red light to indicate a notice failed to go through

Only 2/5 "OK" messages sent successfully, despite open sky and GPS LED green and indicator showing the last message was sent successfully green as well.

I consider myself fairly tech savvy, but if you think there is room for error and I am missing something please let me know :)

[boxhitch]

What trips the unit to signal green for sent message ? Time or reception or ?
If the signal is blocked ie being inside or in a vehicle , does the indicator stay red til things are clear ?

[caddisguy]

What trips the unit to signal green for sent message ? Time or reception or ?

That is one thing I would like to know... how it determines the message was sent. I suspect that might be the failure (ie: false positive, message assumed to be sent but is not) ... that said, the 3/5 OK's that failed had clear, wide open view of the sky, so the failure and false positive success indicator coinciding would be surprising.

Another theory I have is perhaps the message was sent from the unit, but was filtered (not throttled/buffered) on the server side for being sent too many times in X time. Though that wouldn't explain the multiple tracking failures at 30-minute intervals.

I guess I'll have to put in a call to SPOT and see if they have any insight.


If the signal is blocked ie being inside or in a vehicle , does the indicator stay red til things are clear ?

There is an indicator for GPS signal and an indicator for message sent. The unit will not try to resend a failed message, so it will stay red until the next message is successfully sent (or so it thinks) at which point it will turn green.

[f350ps]

Contact Srupp, he's the Spot rep! :) K

[toad]

Mines works great I'd buy another no questions. .. that being said I like the idea of 2 way communication, but you might as well get a sat phone

[RiverOtter]

I've had similar issues with my InReach, although the failure rate is lower.

I spend hours and hours with tech support a couple summers ago and the best they could do was tell me to ensure to sync my contacts with my InReach account, rather than just entering a phone number from in my cell phone. That helped, but I still don't trust it 100% and I use it less than I used to.

Sucks, because after a few lost messages if you don't receive a confirming response within 15 minutes you really start to wonder if the message was sent.
At least with In-Reach you have positive confirmation of received messages. I've experienced a 10 minute delay exactly once, but never once did the unit say a message went out when it didn't; that kind of false confirmation would piss me off. Not saying IR is perfect, but I have a LOT more confidence in it than Spot, based on actual use in remote conditions.

To those suggesting a Sat Phone over IR, a voice call requires a lot more reception than a text. Not that voice isn't a good thing, but I prefer higher connection rate to voice conversation.

[Jagermeister]

In February of 2007 the 4th Canadian Ranger Patrol Group set out from Telkwa BC on snowmobiles for Churchill Manitoba. The commanding officer had a 1st generation SPOT with him. He set it to update about every 10 minutes to leave the bread crumb trail. They traveled way north of Fort Mac. into Fort Chip and across Lake Athabasca of Northern Saskatchewan and into Manitoba. Along the hospitality of the remote First Nation communities until there were no more and then it was a dash for Churchill as there were no settlements in the last leg. It was a 30 day odessesy and SPOT was there all the way. How do I know? I tracked them the entire length by inserting the coordinates into a Google Earth overlay.
They did have to abandon a few sleds in the last stretch but overall the Arctic Cats did yeoman service considering they were operating in temperatures -40 to -50 deg.C.
If you are out in the open with a unobstructed sky, it's going to work. You cannot expect it to give you uncompromising operation if you give it a compromised window. The same can be applied to Inreach. Limit it's "visibility" and you can expect the same out outcome.

[RiverOtter]

^^^^All well and good, but when your Spot is giving you false confirmation of sent messages and you have no means of cross referencing to insure that to be true, where does that leave your confidence in your life line??

I've sent messages out of some pretty shitty spots with my IR, that I was doubtful would go through, but I got my confirmation symbol and I knew it was true because I got a reply from my wife shortly after. Hard to top that for reassurance.

[BowRunner]

As I understand, SPOT green light means "message sent successfully" NOT "message received [by other end] successfully." You need InReach for that confirmation.

[KodiakHntr]

InReach is the only one that will let you know that your message was actually sent, because you can get an actual reply from who you sent it to.

I'll take a "we got your message, and SAR is on its way!" over a green light every single time.
SPOT was cutting edge technology when it came out, now it's wasted money given the alternative.

[HarryToolips]

My spot seems to work fine for messages....i found the trick is to give it plenty of time to work....and open patch of sky also helps
Same with me, no problems so far...they say that each message it will send several times over 20 minutes or so, to make sure it was sent AOK..this is maybe why you had probs sending 3 in one hour there Caddisguy...

[caddisguy]

As I understand, SPOT green light means "message sent successfully" NOT "message received [by other end] successfully." You need InReach for that confirmation.

I believe you are correct that the green light means "Message has left the unit". It is difficult to speculate where the failure is after that. No emails or mark on the map view.

I am confident it is not a matter of clear view. In the case of the tracking from the dash on the jeep, it is certainly possible that part is related to clear view and/or speed of travel. In the case of the 3/5 OK's that failed, it was wide open sky and clear night... one of my favorite spots for star gazing.

I have tested it under some fairly thick cover and the messages went through, albeit several hundred meters from where I actually was. Failure to send or be accurate is to be expected under such conditions.

Given the failures, another downfall is that you can only send 1 SOS. A subsequent press of the SOS button actually cancels SAR. I suppose the Custom message could be changed to "Friends/Family: make sure SAR has been contacted" and send out a dozen of those. Far from ideal, but would probably work with some reliable friends! :)

[caddisguy]

Same with me, no problems so far...they say that each message it will send several times over 20 minutes or so, to make sure it was sent AOK..this is maybe why you had probs sending 3 in one hour there Caddisguy...

It is possible. The "last message sent" LED does stay lit for quite a while. It is possible it repeats to componsate for failure in communication beyond the unit and then any duplicates are discarded on SPOT's side. This could mean if the unit is turned off within 15-20 mins of the "message sent" indicator, it might actually be interupting your message attempt. Lots of if's and might's, but in my case, that would explain 1 out of the 3 OK failures which tips the odds to 3/5 :D

[digger dogger]

Well that's discouraging just ordered one 2 days ago FFS. I talked to the SAR in Golden and they said they have rescued many people using spot but recommended inreach (only because the two way coms) but the price wasn't quite inreach for me. Just wanted something that will do the job. From what you are experiencing I'm a little nervous now. Will have mine this week and do some trials to compare to what you are
seeing. Maybe you just got a dud?

Ditch the Spot, or craigslist it, then look on craigslist for an inreach.
There is no substitute for quality and reliability. imo

[Jagermeister]

It's bad enough the old woman can track my ass on my cell phone for the most part. All I need is a device that can send a message that "I am okay" at the end of the day and if she has not received one by the end of the second day she is instructed to contact search authorities to attend to the last "fix". Other than that, as long as I can push the appropriate button to transmit a "I need help" or the "911" to send full scale rescue, I don't need anything else. The least amount of LD communication the better.

[onlygotagrousesofar]

Hi there.
I'm no expert with SPOT's but I do use them a little bit. You need to be aware that forest cover and canyons or any place that puts you in a "hole" can limit your signal getting out (same with a Sat phone). It will "try" to send for something like 15 minutes but I can't remember the exact amount of time.
Also I've found that if you have a GEN3, they go to sleep if they aren't moving--you may want to double check this feature to be sure.(read manual or call SPOT)
If you hit "OK" then put your spot on your pack or on the ground while doing something like having lunch, or attending to a kill, (or sitting on the dashboard of your parked truck) --- if it's NOT on your person (on your belt or otherwise attached to you), it may go to sleep before it sends.
But double check that feature......

Trevor

[RiverOtter]

It's bad enough the old woman can track my ass on my cell phone for the most part. All I need is a device that can send a message that "I am okay" at the end of the day and if she has not received one by the end of the second day she is instructed to contact search authorities to attend to the last "fix". Other than that, as long as I can push the appropriate button to transmit a "I need help" or the "911" to send full scale rescue, I don't need anything else. The least amount of LD communication the better.
That's a fairly common response from Spot owners who are stuck trying to justify an overpriced chunk of polymer that is severely outdated.

And for those stuck with a wife/girlfriend that would abuse their lifeline with mundane bullshit, firstly I'm really sorry about your "luck" and secondly simply don't add them as a contact.....problem solved. There is simply nothing currently on the market that trumps the real time feedback that 2way communication offers, even a sat phone won't store and transmit a message if/when reception is spotty.

[Jagermeister]

That's a fairly common response from Spot owners who are stuck trying to justify an overpriced chunk of polymer that is severely outdated.

And for those stuck with a wife/girlfriend that would abuse their lifeline with mundane bullshit, firstly I'm really sorry about your "luck" and secondly simply don't add them as a contact.....problem solved. There is simply nothing currently on the market that trumps the real time feedback that 2way communication offers, even a sat phone won't store and transmit a message if/when reception is spotty.
I presume you checked the cost of Inreach?
Far exceeds the cost of my SPOT which I paid $50 for and an annual subscription of $50.
And I never said that the wife compromised my safety with mundane bullshit. I stated that she can track my whereabouts with her cell phone for the most part and likes the daily check-in when in remoter areas. It has never failed to deliver because I make sure it has a un-obstructed sky and ample time to make the connection.

[RiverOtter]

If Spot was giving there devices away, they still wouldn't get my business....

If I'm piled up under some bushes with a compounded leg, the last thing I need to stress about is how I'm gonna drag my ass into the open so my $50 POS Spot "might" be able to get help coming, because the little green light only means the message "might" have went out.

If money is an issue, I'd simply deactivate or put my IR service on hold($5/mo) in the off season, as they don't require a contract.

[Rackmastr]

Spot is stuck about 5 years ago and don't seem to be progressing forward at all.

InReach beats the living heck out of Spot any day of the week for me. Would never go back to SPOT, even if it was free. InReach is pretty damn affordable and a priceless piece of kit when you look at what it does compared to a SPOT.

[brian]

Caddisguy your experience with Spot is exactly my experience. It was highly unpredictable even though I was using it as the directions said to. It's minimal interface is designed for looks over function.


If you are out in the open with a unobstructed sky, it's going to work. You cannot expect it to give you uncompromising operation if you give it a compromised window. The same can be applied to Inreach. Limit it's "visibility" and you can expect the same out outcome.
It is unacceptable for a GPS based safety device to not function in moderate cover. People don't only get into trouble on mountain tops or in open fields. I know my old garmin GPS can get signals with just a sliver of sky where my old Spot failed. Either I had a bad Spot or all Spots need a much better antennae. But I will never know because Spots tech support and product support failed me miserably as well (even while the device was under warranty).

[JAGRMEISTER]

How did i ever survive all these years without either of these items?

[caddisguy]

If I'm piled up under some bushes with a compounded leg, the last thing I need to stress about is how I'm gonna drag my ass into the open so my $50 POS Spot "might" be able to get help coming, because the little green light only means the message "might" have went out.

Forget about piled up in bushes... my Check-In/OK failures happened with a clear view of the sky on a crystal clear night. The closest upstructions would have been some small trees down hill about 50 yards away and maybe some mountain peaks 5 and 10km away. I do not think it would be possible to get more open view of the sky in Region 2 without standing on the tallest peak.

There was a plane that flew by about 45 minutes prior that left a really cool night-time contrail that was lit up from what I believe would have been northern lights. Maybe that overwhelmed the SPOT! ;-P

Sorry man, you're gonna have to crawl up through the cascades to the tallest peak! Lol, definitely not an obstruction / clear view issue in this case. On a side note, if I have anything good to say about the device is that it does a reasonable job of getting a signal with obstructions. It hasn't missed any tracking signals in the timber and testing at home I am able to get a signal from my living room a ways away from the window. It generally puts me a hundred yards off, but as far as acquiring a signal is concerned, it's pretty decent. When it does not have a signal, the led does turn red.

As Trevor mentioned, it by default it does fall asleep for tracking when it is not moving. The feature can be turned off for stationary use (cars, boats, etc)

[caddisguy]

How did i ever survive all these years without either of these items?

I haven't needed my house or car insurance, but it gives me some peace of mind and could be useful one day.

[Crackshot007]

So I had the same issue and it turned out it was me turning it off early and not understanding the light sequences. What I do now, even when inside tent and all of are back to camp is hit the OK button and then let it sit until the indicator light for sending goes off. The green light just means it is trying to send not that it sent already. Once I figured that out, every message has gone through.

[caddisguy]

So I had the same issue and it turned out it was me turning it off early and not understanding the light sequences. What I do now, even when inside tent and all of are back to camp is hit the OK button and then let it sit until the indicator light for sending goes off. The green light just means it is trying to send not that it sent already. Once I figured that out, every message has gone through.

Seems you are correct and the manual says that light will blink for 20 minutes. It will send the message 3 times during that period. That could explain the last OK failure I had for sure if the first attempt of 3 failed. I turned it off after about 10 minutes and went to bed.

The other failures (the two other OK's and the missed tracking) are still a mystery. Never turned it off or got a red light. Thanks for the useful info. Looking at the definitions it is a bit misleading:

"MESSAGE SENDING LIGHT
Notifies you whether or not your most recent message was transmitted. "

...but reading further it does say that it will keep blinking for 20 mins and will sent 3 messages during that period and will turn red if sending fails. I feel pretty dumb now for thinking/saying green light meant "message sent successfully".

It's still going to bug me about the other messages that didn't get through, but the reality is the contract is up in December so next year I will upgrade to Inreach.

[Eastbranch]

Stop relying on LED lights. Leave the unit on for 10 minutes before pushing the button. Leave the unit on for 20-30 minutes after pushing the button. If you don't do those two things, expect to drop messages, especially in mountainous terrain. The unit is just a GPS. In steep, treed country or overcast conditions it is going to take longer to get a fix on you (pre message) and it is going to take longer to send a message. If you turn it on and immediately send a message it is going to spend the first 5-10 mins getting a fix on you before it even sends, regardless of what the LED lights say it is doing. If you turn it off after 15 mins when it's in the middle of sending the first message, she'll no go every time. Patience is key.

You won't catch me with an in reach. All you need to know is that I'm fine. I don't need donkeys back in town chatting me up.

[boxhitch]

Leave the unit on for 10 minutes before pushing the button. Leave the unit on for 20-30 minutes after pushing the button.A Gen 1 worked twice a day for 70 days for me last year, never was on less than 20 minutes.
Also had a Globalstar phone to deal with , so know quite well what waiting for satellites is all about. Not every bright spot up there gives reception, some are just stars.
The SPOT worked quite well with a narrow view of the sky if given enough time to connect

[caddisguy]

Stop relying on LED lights. Leave the unit on for 10 minutes before pushing the button. Leave the unit on for 20-30 minutes after pushing the button. If you don't do those two things, expect to drop messages, especially in mountainous terrain.

As mention a couple of times, the unit was only turned off a little while after the last Check-in/OK was sent, so that can only explain 1 failure. It has still missed 2 Check-in/OK messages and 2 tracking messages while the unit was on the entire time.

As for InReach, just because you can doesn't mean you need to or will chat with folks back in town. Heck, you can leave it off if you don't need it. I think 2-way would be handy because you know the message went through and if you are having a problem, you can communicate the specifics of said problem. Main thing for me is knowing the message went through.

[brian]

Stop relying on LED lights. Leave the unit on for 10 minutes before pushing the button. Leave the unit on for 20-30 minutes after pushing the button. If you don't do those two things, expect to drop messages, especially in mountainous terrain. The unit is just a GPS. In steep, treed country or overcast conditions it is going to take longer to get a fix on you (pre message) and it is going to take longer to send a message. If you turn it on and immediately send a message it is going to spend the first 5-10 mins getting a fix on you before it even sends, regardless of what the LED lights say it is doing. If you turn it off after 15 mins when it's in the middle of sending the first message, she'll no go every time. Patience is key.

With my Spot I left it on the whole time I was out there, face up attached to my backpack strap. It averaged 50% of messages getting through for the season. I tried to contact Spot numerous times to see if this was normal but got ass all for my troubles. My Garmin had no trouble finding my location but my Spots performance was dismal in these same conditions. I Can't say enough bad things about that company, more for their lack of support than for their crappy product.

[f350ps]

If I was you guys I'd get rid of all this Spot/Inreach crap, stay close to town within cell phone range and leave the remote places to the guys with the big boy pants! :) :) K

[caddisguy]

If I was you guys I'd get rid of all this Spot/Inreach crap, stay close to town within cell phone range and leave the remote places to the guys with the big boy pants! :) :) K

No man. I'm getting your LEH draw and heading down to your honey hole. I'll be the guy wearing a helmet. Can't be too safe!! :)

[f350ps]

No man. I'm getting your LEH draw and heading down to your honey hole. I'll be the guy wearing a helmet. Can't be too safe!! :)
Hahahaha.......nice try but there's no cell service there and we all know now that you're too scared to be be away from your keeper! :) K

[Eastbranch]

Again, it's a GPS. If you are moving, it will struggle to keep a fix on your position and successfully send. It's not a perfect science. The 'tracking' feature of these things is best left to folks road tripping through the prairies. If you really 'need' tracking as a safety feature and the best you can afford is a SPOT, you're probably in over your head anyway. I think people misunderstand the reason these exist - to save your life. Not to make yourself or somebody at home feel better. If you're a capable outdoorsman you don't need any of these technologies for anything other than a complete FUBAR situation.

[brian]

Again, it's a GPS. If you are moving, it will struggle to keep a fix on your position and successfully send.
I track every hunt and scouting trip I do with my GPS. Somehow my Garmin can keep a solid track on me when I move around but a POS Spot cannot? That means its antennae is inadequate for its purpose. If you only need it for complete FUBAR situations then you are way way way better off with a Personal Locator Beacon. Couple hundred upfront cost but no subscription fees. They have a more powerful battery transmitting more powerful signals. They usually transmit the SOS on multiple GPS satellite systems and radio frequencies allowing SAR to pin point your location very precisely. Some include a strobe to guide SAR into you. These will pay off over a spot in one or two years of use when you add in subscription fees. Spot is a complete waste of money if you only want it as an SOS device.

[Banjo]

I'd wager that spot will soon be obsolete now that Garmin has bought Inreach

[Travalanche]

Just an update on my SPOT. Had mentioned earlier in the thread that I was waiting for one to arrive and it did. Mine has been fine. Have taken it out three times now. Two days were overcast and one sunny. The SPOT functioned perfectly each time. Only complaint is that there was a delay in my wife getting the text messages from my check ins. She did get them but was anywhere from 10-30 minutes from when I sent them, but they did all go through. I had the spot on the dash of my truck, on the front of my quad and hanging off my backpack. I had the tracking feature turned on and it recorded a track every ten minutes. Even with the delay on the text messages, all of my check ins and tracks came up immediately on the app where my wife was logged into our account on her iphone. It was always within a minute of me sending them. I wrote down what time I hit the send button each time and compared it to what time she got the text messages and what time it popped up on the app. I was extremely skeptical after buying it and reading on here all the complaints but I have to say my first hand experience is that this thing works fine in cloudy weather and didn't seem to matter if I was moving or sitting still everything went through. It was cloudy, I was on some narrow trails where there wasn't always perfect line of sight to the sky. After testing it myself I am totally confident with this thing as a safety device.

Tried inserting a picture of the tracks on the iphone app but isn't working for some reason.