Dead cougar kittens

[MichelD]

Friend of mine posted this on Facebook. Just so you know, he is no bunny hugger. He is a hunter and lives up in the Gold Bridge area year-round.



It was very saddening to find a pair of cougar kittens that had perished over the winter after their mother had met with some sort of misfortune. I have to commend the conservation officers for their immediate concern and attendance. They will do DNA sampling and compare it with compulsory harvest reports for this area to see if a hunter was responsible for the mother's and consequent demise of these poor little kittens. I would have hoped that any hunter would have the wherewithal to have a good look to see if it was lactating before taking a shot. The poor scared animal was probably trapped in a tree with dogs at the bottom. Surely one would take the time to ascertain its sex and condition before the kill. On a lighter note... If they had just come a half kilometre to my house, I have cat food.





http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t404/micheljdrouin/kittens_zps3o011ea4.jpg (http://s1058.photobucket.com/user/micheljdrouin/media/kittens_zps3o011ea4.jpg.html)

[dragonslayer]

Very sad indeed. To bad for the young cougars, if it is s case of shooting and not seeing the cubs it can happen, but hunters must have a better look before shooting, just my opinion.

[fuzzybiscuit]

I would have hoped that any hunter would have the wherewithal to have a good look to see if it was lactating before taking a shot. The poor scared animal was probably trapped in a tree with dogs at the bottom. Surely one would take the time to ascertain its sex and condition before the kill.



Nothing to say that hunters had anything to do with the mother being killed and leaving the young ones to fend for themselves.

Talk about jumping to conclusions. While your buddy may not be a Anti he makes the same kind of comments a Anti would make and by posting crap like that only helps to support their agenda.

I buy a cat tag every year in hopes that I get a chance to help the deer population out.

[SSG-man]

Maybe she got an antler stuck in her. Could happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeOWbPBNYPE

[ramcam]

A Tom may have killed the kittens to get the female to come back into heat, I think this happens fairly often in the cougar world. Just a thought.

[180grainer]

The CO's do DNA sampling of legally killed animals? Really? And actually have a data base to pull from in such events?.......Cool if true......

[Chopper]

The CO's do DNA sampling of legally killed animals? Really? And actually have a data base to pull from in such events?.......Cool if true......

Yes , they take a DNA sample when you have your compulsory done on a legally taken animal. If the DNA of those kittens matches a cat that had a compulsory, The hunter is likely in a bit of trouble ...


Friend of mine posted this on Facebook. Just so you know, he is no bunny hugger. He is a hunter and lives up in the Gold Bridge area year-round.



It was very saddening to find a pair of cougar kittens that had perished over the winter after their mother had met with some sort of misfortune. I have to commend the conservation officers for their immediate concern and attendance. They will do DNA sampling and compare it with compulsory harvest reports for this area to see if a hunter was responsible for the mother's and consequent demise of these poor little kittens. I would have hoped that any hunter would have the wherewithal to have a good look to see if it was lactating before taking a shot. The poor scared animal was probably trapped in a tree with dogs at the bottom. Surely one would take the time to ascertain its sex and condition before the kill. On a lighter note... If they had just come a half kilometre to my house, I have cat food.









Sex does not matter, Female Cats without Kittens are legal to take. I shot one a couple years back. As far as dead cougar kittens ... Lets not jump to conclusions, Mountain animals live a hard life, as do many people around the world. Predators are at the top of their cycles right now. Its probably not a terrible thing those cats are dead.

I will note, Although I don't do it for my own reasons. I don't think commenting negatively on this forum or anywhere for that matter on how cats are, or any game is legally hunted is appropriate.

In fact until there is evidence of illegal activity you and your friend should just keep your opinions to yourselves... Your comments on hunting female cats, and with dogs in your Original post actually offend me. I would be happy just to see this thread locked ...

I also carry a cat tag, Ive shot two over the past 4 years , missed a 3rd ... while hiking without dogs. I will legally take a cat any chance I get

[LBM]

Friend of mine posted this on Facebook. Just so you know, he is no bunny hugger. He is a hunter and lives up in the Gold Bridge area year-round.



It was very saddening to find a pair of cougar kittens that had perished over the winter after their mother had met with some sort of misfortune. I have to commend the conservation officers for their immediate concern and attendance. They will do DNA sampling and compare it with compulsory harvest reports for this area to see if a hunter was responsible for the mother's and consequent demise of these poor little kittens. I would have hoped that any hunter would have the wherewithal to have a good look to see if it was lactating before taking a shot. The poor scared animal was probably trapped in a tree with dogs at the bottom. Surely one would take the time to ascertain its sex and condition before the kill. On a lighter note... If they had just come a half kilometre to my house, I have cat food.





http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t404/micheljdrouin/kittens_zps3o011ea4.jpg (http://s1058.photobucket.com/user/micheljdrouin/media/kittens_zps3o011ea4.jpg.html)

Yes not a nice thing to see I have seen it to many times. Way to many cougars being killed in snares now days as well and many times this is the end result as well, young left to starve to death. As said many times before just because you see a lone cougar does not mean it does not have young some where.

[Chopper]

Yes not a nice thing to see I have seen it to many times. Way to many cougars being killed in snares now days as well and many times this is the end result as well, young left to starve to death. As said many times before just because you see a lone cougar does not mean it does not have young some where.

WTF is this ? an anti hunting and trapping thread ?

Go find a new forum ... Is this some BS liberal thread that is infiltrating HBC ?

[Gateholio]

Cougars have been seen on Road 40 in that area chasing deer and sheep. Mom could easily have been struck by a car. Or fallen through ice, or caught in a slide or......

[tracker]

WTF is this ? an anti hunting and trapping thread ?

Go find a new forum ... Is this some BS liberal thread that is infiltrating HBC ?


what he said x2

[boxhitch]

Nature at work again.
Implicating hunters or trappers is the work of the enemy

[180grainer]

What if a hunter had shot her? Is it illegal if you can't determine if she's a nursing mother? And what does determining mean legally? I'm not sure but the regs read like "you know she is because they are accompanying her". Well....if she's alone, prove knowledge then.

[adriaticum]

Cougar kittens have been dying for millennia and will be dying for millennia more.
It's kind of irritating to see people on social media post basic realities of life to show how compassionate they are, how caring and loving they are.
Oh a cougar died, or an orca calf died, or a mosquito drowned in my coffee.
It's beyond irritating. Unless it's there is some clear evidence of a crime, who cares.
OMG a beaver pup died, he chocked on a willow that was too dry because of global warming.

It's called virtue signalling.

[CodyRules]

im with him ^^^

[270ruger]

WTF,how can he even come to a conclusion or a generalization like this.This has anti written all over it,nice pal.

[okas]

or got shot trying to eat someones dog

[HarryToolips]

Cougars have been seen on Road 40 in that area chasing deer and sheep. Mom could easily have been struck by a car. Or fallen through ice, or caught in a slide or......
Exactla, could've been anything, as sad as it is, but it's part of nature...

[Chopper]

All the guy did was post a picture of two dead kittens, nothing more. What's up everyone azz?

Immediately blaming hunters , negative comments on LEGALLY hunting female cats, Negative comments on LEGALLY hunting with dogs ... That's what is up everyones ass. Standing on top of dead kittens screaming anti BS. before there is even any evidence of wrong doing.

That's what is up my ass

[Caribou_lou]

Sad to see. No respectable hunter likes to see any animal suffer. Predator or ungulates. But it happens. All the time.

[AgSilver]

I know I'm new here, but I don't think it's wrong for someone to have opinions that aren't necessarily "all hunters are perfect and and every animal death is justified." Is it necessarily "anti" to have an opinion that doesn't support a possibly illegally killed animal? Even if that's not what happened, it's not an unreasonable conclusion.

And why do "antis" have to be vilified? Do we not live in a society with freedom of speech and political opinion?

Not really intending to derail the thread, but why so much aggression for having an opinion, whether justified or not?

[Chopper]

I know I'm new here, but I don't think it's wrong for someone to have opinions that aren't necessarily "all hunters are perfect and and every animal death is justified." Is it necessarily "anti" to have an opinion that doesn't support a possibly illegally killed animal? Even if that's not what happened, it's not an unreasonable conclusion.

And why do "antis" have to be vilified? Do we not live in a society with freedom of speech and political opinion?

Not really intending to derail the thread, but why so much aggression for having an opinion, whether justified or not?


You two guys are going to get Murked when everyone reads this in the morning. Are you serious right now ? this is a hunting forum ... You just singed up and come on here and defend anti hunters ? YA ANTIS ARE VILLAINS ... THEY ARE TRYING TO STOP HUNTING !... What in the actual FK is wrong with you ? I know , you are clearly anti hunting

I will re post what I already have written 3 times on this thread ... The OP is condemning hunting with dogs in her OP ... You think we shouldn't be hunting with dogs ? That's anti hunting ....

Some other member is on this thread bashing legal trapping, Do I like trapping ? its not my favorite ... but if some liberal comes on here and trys to ban trapping , I will defend it to the bitter end !

You better read the OP again ... go back to the liberal forum you came from. Were not an anti hunting group here

[olympia]

It's unfortunate that the cubs died but the OP unfairly came up with a hypothetical tear jerking story about how the animal may or may not have died. There are a million different possibilitys as how these cubs died. Maybe an anti hunter hit the mother with his car? That poor animal as it was returning to its beloved children was crossing the road when struck by a car driven by an anti, she tried in vain to jump out of the way but she just wasn't fast enough, THUMP went the terrible sound as she flew they the air and hit a tree, she died layer that night thinking about who was gonna feed her cubs. As she took her last breath she prayed to God that the anti who was driving the car would find her children and feed them some cat food. The End

[Chopper]

It's unfortunate that the cubs died but the OP unfairly came up with a hypothetical tear jerking story about how the animal may or may not have died. There are a million different possibilitys as how these cubs died. Maybe an anti hunter hit the mother with his car? That poor animal as it was returning to its beloved children was crossing the road when struck by a car driven by an anti, she tried in vain to jump out of the way but she just wasn't fast enough, THUMP went the terrible sound as she flew they the air and hit a tree, she died layer that night thinking about who was gonna feed her cubs. As she took her last breath she prayed to God that the anti who was driving the car would find her children and feed them some cat food. The End

Holy fk ... This is an awful story. I think the anti should be charged with driving with undue care and attention. It wont stop kittens from dying, but at least all us hunters that pour money into conservation YEAR AFTER YEAR can have some closure ...

[dracb]

Chopper,


As for the kitten DNA matching an inspected female cougar, why should the hunter be in trouble? Kittens are weaned at two to three months when they weigh 7 to 9 pounds. It is difficult to judge the size of the kittens from the photos, but they look older than a couple of months. They look like the very obvious spots of kittens have begun to fade which normally occurs at about 12 weeks (suggesting they have been weaned). Female cougars often leave the kittens at kill sites while she is hunting the next kill. So a non-lactating cougar with young kittens could easily be taken by a hunter obeying all hunting regulations.

Even if lactating, just how obvious are the mammaries on a cougar that is way up a tall spruce or fir? Any idea? Or for that manner just how obvious are the testicles of a big male cougar when way up a tree? What season of the year should one expect to see lactating females or kittens? Any idea?

[BlacktailStalker]

Friend of mine posted this on Facebook. Just so you know, he is no bunny hugger. He is a hunter and lives up in the Gold Bridge area year-round.



It was very saddening to find a pair of cougar kittens that had perished over the winter after their mother had met with some sort of misfortune. I have to commend the conservation officers for their immediate concern and attendance. They will do DNA sampling and compare it with compulsory harvest reports for this area to see if a hunter was responsible for the mother's and consequent demise of these poor little kittens. I would have hoped that any hunter would have the wherewithal to have a good look to see if it was lactating before taking a shot. The poor scared animal was probably trapped in a tree with dogs at the bottom. Surely one would take the time to ascertain its sex and condition before the kill. On a lighter note... If they had just come a half kilometre to my house, I have cat food.







What a stupid uneducated statement. Does this fool know what these apex predators face on a daily basis ? Kicked in the skull by 1000lb ungulates, walking through traplines (snares), constantly pursued by wolves and at times killed, hit by cars and even killed by other cats (usually an aggressive Tom)
This is about as "anti" as one can be considering there is no story as to where and how the kittens were found.

If your friend is not an "anti hunter" he is clearly "anti working dogs" (Hounds) and is a complete idiot for posting such a negative thing on Facebook that only adds to the fire received from all anti hunters by shining a negative light on ANY method of LEGAL hunting.

Those kittens are hardly four months old and would not be traveling with the female unless she was transporting them to a kill location.
Cougars breed year round. 75% of all females have kittens or are pregnant.
How do you know those two kittens weren't killed by a Tom? You don't. They crush their skull or neck and leave them where they fall if they don't eat them. They kill more kittens than you'd care to believe (heads up for those guys who think they're saving ungulates by killing toms)

[Red_Mist]

Maybe they decided to become vegans and starved to death.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Lots of great points made about the possible cause of death of these kittens and/or the mother. Now go educate your friend MD. I'm sure you will do a great job to educate him and all his other Facebook friends.

[Down South]

WTF is this ? an anti hunting and trapping thread ?

Go find a new forum ... Is this some BS liberal thread that is infiltrating HBC ?

I agree, since when is this an anti hunting forum, we do not need anyone posting anything that helps the anti hunting groups specially on our forum

Yes it is sad to see a couple of dead cougar kittens, but I think they have very good population numbers and so if nothing else it will help the deer population

[two-feet]

Why even get emotional about this? In nature death is a normal, common occurance and its only the humanizing of the situation that makes it sad. It would be upsetting if cougars were endangered or rare, but this is not the case.

Would the same people be upset about the baby deer that died to feed these cats?

[AgSilver]

You two guys are going to get Murked when everyone reads this in the morning. Are you serious right now ? this is a hunting forum ... You just singed up and come on here and defend anti hunters ? YA ANTIS ARE VILLAINS ... THEY ARE TRYING TO STOP HUNTING !... What in the actual FK is wrong with you ? I know , you are clearly anti hunting

I will re post what I already have written 3 times on this thread ... The OP is condemning hunting with dogs in her OP ... You think we shouldn't be hunting with dogs ? That's anti hunting ....

Some other member is on this thread bashing legal trapping, Do I like trapping ? its not my favorite ... but if some liberal comes on here and trys to ban trapping , I will defend it to the bitter end !

You better read the OP again ... go back to the liberal forum you came from. Were not an anti hunting group here

Definitely not anti-hunting or I wouldn't be here. But I will defend everyone to hold and voice their opinions, whether I agree with them or not. I believe in rational discourse and thought provoking conversation.

I think the original post (from FB, not the repost of the comment) is possibly ignorant and fails to acknowledge the many, many ways that an animal can die in the wild. But it's not invalid or worthy of vilification. It's just an opinion and could very well be true. Or might be totally wrong.

But then again, I also don't get my ginch in a twist every time a vegan tells me I shouldn't eat a steak.

[dereke]

Maybe they decided to become vegans and starved to death.


I spit my breakfast out reading this haha

[yamadirt 426]

This is what I call a dumb and dumber thread. Its stupid to begin with followed by some severely ******ed responses. And now we have a bunch of new antis on the site..... jesus christ almighty this is a hunting forum, not a forum for hipsters that are calling themselves hunters.

[Fisher-Dude]

I've found the same thing before. Female and kittens were on a deer carcass, tom came in and killed the three kittens. It was quite a scene, one I won't forget.

Nature doesn't discriminate.

[300H&H]

Very sad indeed. To bad for the young cougars, if it is s case of shooting and not seeing the cubs it can happen, but hunters must have a better look before shooting, just my opinion.

I do the same thing when I am hunting bears.
So far I have been lucky and have only shot boars.
The last thing I want to do is leave a cub without the sow...that would mean 2 dead bears.

[Chopper]

Definitely not anti-hunting or I wouldn't be here. But I will defend everyone to hold and voice their opinions, whether I agree with them or not. I believe in rational discourse and thought provoking conversation.

I think the original post (from FB, not the repost of the comment) is possibly ignorant and fails to acknowledge the many, many ways that an animal can die in the wild. But it's not invalid or worthy of vilification. It's just an opinion and could very well be true. Or might be totally wrong.

But then again, I also don't get my ginch in a twist every time a vegan tells me I shouldn't eat a steak.


99% of the members on this site are not going to accept any anti hunting opinions. The other %1 are trying to rationalise anti hunting. Thanks for making where you stand crystal clear

[Chopper]

Chopper,


As for the kitten DNA matching an inspected female cougar, why should the hunter be in trouble? Kittens are weaned at two to three months when they weigh 7 to 9 pounds. It is difficult to judge the size of the kittens from the photos, but they look older than a couple of months. They look like the very obvious spots of kittens have begun to fade which normally occurs at about 12 weeks (suggesting they have been weaned). Female cougars often leave the kittens at kill sites while she is hunting the next kill. So a non-lactating cougar with young kittens could easily be taken by a hunter obeying all hunting regulations.

Even if lactating, just how obvious are the mammaries on a cougar that is way up a tall spruce or fir? Any idea? Or for that manner just how obvious are the testicles of a big male cougar when way up a tree? What season of the year should one expect to see lactating females or kittens? Any idea?

Its not my opinion, Its just a scenario ... All I know is your not aloud to shoot female cats rearing cubs for obvious reasons. I have personally only taken two cats, During my compulsories they took DNA. So its safe to assume the CO's could DNA match the kittens. The legal outcome ? I really don't know, Im not a cougar hunting expert.

I am just on here defending against the OP on account he is either ignorant in his post , or trying to sneak some anti hunting propaganda on the forum with a sob story. Hunters are in no political position right now to accept any negativity towards legal hunting practices. Serious hunters and guides know that we are only going to come under more pressure in the coming years, Its only going to get worse. Some one posts or gives any anti hunting propaganda, and we need to come back full force to protect our rights

We are potentially about to lose the Gbear hunts ... you think its going to end there ? No , they will be moving forward to the next hunts after that victory. It will never stop



Either way she needs to pull her head out of her hind end

[Husky7mm]

I think its a waste of resources to spend money on those cougar kittens. Like many have said nature can be cruel, and could easily be the cause of their death. Its very anti hunting to ass-ume anthing and post if up on social media. I dont lament the death of any predator and certainly dont put them up on a pedestal above the rest.

[MB_Boy]

I am just on here defending against the OP on account she is either ignorant in her post , or trying to sneak some anti hunting propaganda on the forum with a sob story. Hunters are in no political position right now to accept any negativity towards legal hunting practices.

Pssst.....Michel is a he and has been a long time contributing member here AND active hunter. ;) He's copied/pasted comments from Facebook....not his words.

Simmer down......and breathe. :p

[Chopper]

Pssst.....Michel is a he and has been a long time contributing member here AND active hunter. ;) He's copied/pasted comments from Facebook....not his words.

Simmer down......and breathe. :p

I don't care if its Ted Nugent , why did he cut and paste that on this forum ? whats his point ? MB ... His OP sucks

[russm]

Bear season really needs to start, the amount of bitching around here lately is getting unBEARable.

[ruger#1]

I don't care if its Ted Nugent , why did he cut and paste that on this forum ? whats his point ? MB ... His OP sucks
Hey stop being a pushy ass! You do not own the site.

[steveo]

I would agree it was going out on a limb reposting a thread like that on this forum. As a hunter/trapper I understand the way of life in the mountains is hunger, cold and pain and I don't think the critters are asking for our sympathy but some people are full of emotional intoxication and push human sentiment on animals where it doesn't belong. Although the deceased kittens would argue the fact, their removal from the ecosystem may have made the remaining cougars healthier and populations more stable as well as the prey.

[two-feet]

I would agree it was going out on a limb reposting a thread like that on this forum. As a hunter/trapper I understand the way of life in the mountains is hunger, cold and pain and I don't think the critters are asking for our sympathy but some people are full of emotional intoxication and push human sentiment on animals where it doesn't belong. Although the deceased kittens would argue the fact, their removal from the ecosystem may have made the remaining cougars healthier and populations more stable as well as the prey.
Well said.

[ruger#1]

well said.

x 2.........

[mpotzold]

Letting nature take its course, nothing more! A common occurrence.

Read that litter size is up to six cubs & usually only one survives to adulthood.

Their demise has saved many ungulates! A cat can kill 50 or more deer per year. So do the math!
And let’s not forget they’re quite capable of killing moose, elk or caribou.

The photo makes me cry crocodile tears.:cry:

[ruger#1]

Letting nature take its course, nothing more! A common occurrence.

Read that litter size is up to six cubs & usually only one survives to adulthood.

Their demise has saved many ungulates! A cat can kill 50 or more deer per year. So do the math!
And let’s not forget they’re quite capable of killing moose, elk or caribou.

The photo makes me cry crocodile tears.:cry:

The photo makes me wish there were four in the snow. I just did the math.

[LBM]

Hard to tell but by looks of the photo they look pretty skinny I would lean towards starved to death. Yes things can happen naturally in nature but if something
happened to the female odds are there was human involvement.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Hard to tell but by looks of the photo they look pretty skinny I would lean towards starved to death. Yes things can happen naturally in nature but if something
happened to the female odds are there was human involvement.

No offence, but I would say that you don't know much about odds. Way too many other possibilities out there to say it had anything to do with an encounter with man.

[Hunter Dog]

I would agree it was going out on a limb reposting a thread like that on this forum. As a hunter/trapper I understand the way of life in the mountains is hunger, cold and pain and I don't think the critters are asking for our sympathy but some people are full of emotional intoxication and push human sentiment on animals where it doesn't belong. Although the deceased kittens would argue the fact, their removal from the ecosystem may have made the remaining cougars healthier and populations more stable as well as the prey.

Where do you get off putting logic on a thread like this? Hope you got Chopper's permission as it might not be aloud! LOL

[Gateholio]

The OP put up something that might be of interest to hunters. Why can't some of you just have a discussion rather than going on rants?

[AgSilver]

Bear season really needs to start, the amount of bitching around here lately is getting unBEARable.

Baha!

And +1 to Hunter Dog.

[AgSilver]

The OP put up something that might be of interest to hunters. Why can't some of you just have a discussion rather than going on rants?

Don't you know that if you're not expressing fundamentalist ideals, you're the enemy? Conversations aren't allowed.

[Spy]

Don't you know that if you're not expressing fundamentalist ideals, you're the enemy? Conversations aren't allowed.
Conversation about what???? The cats are dead who knows how! The OP made it sound like its the fault of hunters,or his buddy "another hunter" did and he shared with us! As a hunter how could you even post shit like that knowing the antis will eat it up! Im with chopper and many others ! Thanks to the OP and his hunting buddy for throwing all hunters under the bus! Im sure there are rules on this "hunting" forum against posting bullshit like the OP did.

[Gateholio]

Don't you know that if you're not expressing fundamentalist ideals, you're the enemy? Conversations aren't allowed.

Anti hunters are the enemy but there are far better ways of dealing with their foolishness than going on a rant.

[Gateholio]

Might be able to have a discussion about legalities, DNA use in conservation, cougar mortality, cougar populations, wildlife/vehicle collision, tips on spotting a lactating female, identifying make vs female, natural reasons for young cougar mortality, the merit of the speculation by the OPs friend on cause of death and maybe a few other topics, too.

Nah. Let's rant.

[Xenomorph]

Might be able to have a discussion about legalities, DNA use in conservation, cougar mortality, cougar populations, wildlife/vehicle collision, tips on spotting a lactating female, identifying make vs female, natural reasons for young cougar mortality, the merit of the speculation by the OPs friend on cause of death and maybe a few other topics, too.

Nah. Let's rant.


Why share valuable info like that, why use the brain power to educate when you can tell them to shove it. I mean, God forbid I act nice and teach a noob or uninformed civilian about how Mother Nature is truly a Biatch! Nah, it's better to tell the asshole that dared to ruffle my peacock feather to go do themselves, and their entire bloodline.

…but then don't forget, the Muslims are coming!

Honesty though, when will people grow up.

[Spy]

Might be able to have a discussion about legalities, DNA use in conservation, cougar mortality, cougar populations, wildlife/vehicle collision, tips on spotting a lactating female, identifying make vs female, natural reasons for young cougar mortality, the merit of the speculation by the OPs friend on cause of death and maybe a few other topics, too.

Nah. Let's rant.
Thats a load of bull and you know it ! Everyone has an opinion mine is the OP & his buddy are throwing hunters under the bus and giving the antis ammo to use against us ! Insinuating that hunters are to blame for the kittens death, which is exactly what they did!

[Gateholio]

Thats a load of bull and you know it ! Everyone has an opinion mine is the OP & his buddy are throwing hunters under the bus and giving the antis ammo to use against us ! Insinuating that hunters are to blame for the kittens death, which is exactly what they did!

Yup, everyone has an opinion.....

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Thats a load of bull and you know it ! Everyone has an opinion mine is the OP & his buddy are throwing hunters under the bus and giving the antis ammo to use against us ! Insinuating that hunters are to blame for the kittens death, which is exactly what they did!

Please explain how the OP is throwing hunters under the bus? He posted what his Facebook friend posted.

[Spy]

Please explain how the OP is throwing hunters under the bus? He posted what his Facebook friend posted.
Ok the OP "just" shared what his friend posted, as they say don't shoot the messenger ! I will take my comment back, the OP's friend threw hunters under the bus with what he posted on FB.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Ok the OP "just" shared what his friend posted, as they say don't shoot the messenger ! I will take my comment back, the OP's friend threw hunters under the bus with what he posted on FB.

That I can agree with.

MD has been a long term member here and I can't recall him ever throwing anyone under the bus.

[tracker]

Please explain how the OP is throwing hunters under the bus? He posted what his Facebook friend posted.

you need to read the first post again.. He totally slams cougar hunting ..

[goatdancer]

you need to read the first post again.. He totally slams cougar hunting ..

The OP posted what a Facebook friend posted, not his own thoughts, as SSS stated.
Gatehouse has it right. Too many that only want to rant about their own 'right' ideas.

[MichelD]

The OP put up something that might be of interest to hunters. Why can't some of you just have a discussion rather than going on rants?


Thank you Mr. Gatehouse. Yes, you correctly assessed my intention in putting up Post #1.

If this has caused some of you heartburn I apologize.

I did not intent to start a bun fight here.

[ACE]

Justin has nice hair ......

[Manglinmike]

just my two cents once something like this is posted and the finger pointed at hunters the damage is done ,you can offer up all of the other possible reasons that these kittens may have died but the seed has been planted. The uneducated well only read that some hunters and there dogs killed some kittens

[RiverOtter]

just my two cents once something like this is posted and the finger pointed at hunters the damage is done ,you can offer up all of the other possible reasons that these kittens may have died but the seed has been planted. The uneducated well only read that some hunters and there dogs killed some kittens
Sad, but true.......

[Beachcomber]

just my two cents once something like this is posted and the finger pointed at hunters the damage is done ,you can offer up all of the other possible reasons that these kittens may have died but the seed has been planted. The uneducated well only read that some hunters and there dogs killed some kittens

i doubt it. Antis do not need anyone's help to arrive at the conclusion that malign hunting practices are to blame. Maybe the kittens death was due to hunters or one of the many other potential causes cited in this thread. Regardless of the cause I don't see the big deal in reminding hunters to be aware of the potential consequences of their actions if, hypothetically, they shoot a mother with kittens. Going bananas about someone speculating on the cause of death strikes me as a far greater threat to hunters' collective credibility than the original post. A sense of proportion would be welcome - Gatehouse has suggested a number of potential avenues for discussion that seem a sensible alternative to all of this "under the bus" talk. Hopefully our sport and its participants are more resilient and rational than some posters here appear to be.

[AgSilver]

i doubt it. Antis do not need anyone's help to arrive at the conclusion that malign hunting practices are to blame. Maybe the kittens death was due to hunters or one of the many other potential causes cited in this thread. Regardless of the cause I don't see the big deal in reminding hunters to be aware of the potential consequences of their actions if, hypothetically, they shoot a mother with kittens. Going bananas about someone speculating on the cause of death strikes me as a far greater threat to hunters' collective credibility than the original post. A sense of proportion would be welcome - Gatehouse has suggested a number of potential avenues for discussion that seem a sensible alternative to all of this "under the bus" talk. Hopefully our sport and its participants are more resilient and rational than some posters here appear to be.

This is the most rational point on this thread and I had considered making a similar comment but figured I'd wake up with a horse's head in my bed.

The reality is that getting angry and lashing out at anyone who has an opinion that could negatively impact your sport/pastime/way of life is going to do a lot more damage to hunting's reputation than engaging in an educational discussion that presents realistic alternatives to the original conclusion.

The other way just makes people think that you're an angry sort that shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm.

[Daybreak]

i doubt it. Antis do not need anyone's help to arrive at the conclusion that malign hunting practices are to blame. Maybe the kittens death was due to hunters or one of the many other potential causes cited in this thread. Regardless of the cause I don't see the big deal in reminding hunters to be aware of the potential consequences of their actions if, hypothetically, they shoot a mother with kittens. Going bananas about someone speculating on the cause of death strikes me as a far greater threat to hunters' collective credibility than the original post. A sense of proportion would be welcome - Gatehouse has suggested a number of potential avenues for discussion that seem a sensible alternative to all of this "under the bus" talk. Hopefully our sport and its participants are more resilient and rational than some posters here appear to be.

Exactly. The original post has been blown entirely out of proportion. It was simply a repost of a 2nd parties opinion who "suggested" that the cougars "may" have died as a result of hunting with dogs.

Now we have vicious personal attacks complete with yelling, expletive workarounds and snide signature lines in an attempt to belittle, bully and intimidate our own members. This only serves to divide us and make us appear like a bunch of intellectual idiots. Far more damaging than someone on facebook empathizing with the dead kits and suggesting it could have been a result of hunting which is entirely possible.

If nothing else the original post serves as a great reminder to be careful before pulling the trigger and even the anti hunters would appreciate that consideration.

[AgSilver]

Well, the one problem with the original FB post was the line about "the poor creature was probably scared in a tree."

That part is pretty speculative and casts hunting in a negative light. But it should start a discussion, not a fight.

[RiverOtter]

If nothing else the original post serves as a great reminder to be careful before pulling the trigger and even the anti hunters would appreciate that consideration.

If nothing else the original post serves as a great reminder to be careful before hitting "enter" as fellow hunters would appreciate that consideration.....

Directected at the Facebook post, not as much the repost here......

[RiverOtter]

Well, the one problem with the original FB post was the line about "the poor creature was probably scared in a tree."

That part is pretty speculative and casts hunting in a negative light. But it should start a discussion, not a fight.
Pretty much what I was trying to point out with my last post, as supposedly a hunter made the facebook post.

[Daybreak]

If nothing else the original post serves as a great reminder to be careful before hitting "enter" as fellow hunters would appreciate that consideration.....

Directected at the Facebook post, not as much the repost here......

That is a good point. Nothing however, IMO, is worth going ballistic over amongst ourselves.

[Steeleco]

Never ceases to amaze me how we can fight amongst ourselves over not much at all.