Beware Fort Ware!

[Dillybar]

For those thinking of hunting this year near Fort Ware at the north end of Williston Lake and the Fulton River I caution you. Two years ago we were chased out and had our camp ransacked by the locals. They stole all of our booze and were going thru our bags and ended up drinking a two week stash in one night. It came to a head when they demanded $300.00 from each of us for hunting on their land. We were 60km away from the Reserve and clearly on crown land. Both sides had guns drawn at each other and one of the locals took off in his truck (totally gased)to get re-enforcements. We ended up splitting to Tsa Key Dene to get the RCMP and slept in our truck till morning. They said it is common for this to happen and it has occured more than once. They also said that they really are only looking for booze but they have been known to pull the trigger to get it. We packed up our camp the next morning with the RCMP present and cut our trip short.

[Rackmastr]

Been up in that country guiding before.....never have had a problem but have heard stories in the past. Everyone I've dealt with was pretty decent, and we once shared a tea around a fire with a few guys who showed up at our camp one evening looking for moose.

Nice country in there......

[bruin]

Wow, that's quite a deal. What did the RCMP end up doing?

[bsa30-06]

From reading the last couple lines of your story, it sounds like the cops now who these people are.Did they press any charges, any arrests made?

[Dillybar]

We came back after an evening hunt and we first saw flashlights head into the timber. We had no idea how many guys there was. Our confrontation occured with 4 individuals and we could hear more guys back in the bush. The 2 RCMP officers came out at 11:00pm and asked for the 3 of us to back them up with our firearms if something was to happen. After they visited their makeshift camp they came to us and said that alcohol has impaired their judgement and it is probably best we leave for the night, which meant we slept in our truck 5 km out of camp with most of our gear left in camp. It was one long night. By morning we met with the RCMP and we took our wall tent and camp apart and left. The individuals were well known to the police and have caused problems in the past. The police's response to us was if they pull a gun on us again make sure we shoot first. To be honest with you all, I was scared to death and the last thing I want to do is shoot someone over a bottle of whiskey. No charges were laid. That area alone was some of the nicest country I have ever seen, too bad it ended how it did. At least no one was hurt.

[kutenay]

In 1973, I worked at Ingenika Tanker Base, for the Forest Service and, even the local Indians there frequently mentioned that the Fort Ware band were a wild bunch. In MacKenzie, they were often flown in as there was no road access then and would go on terrible benders, which once involved some of them lighting a fire a a motel room; ALL flights, motels, etc. were/are paid by the Canadian gov''t. using OUR taxes.

My experiences in the Alberta Forest Service involved similar situations to that of the initial poster, which is why I ALWAYS went armed when working solo on firetowers, etc. The real fault here is the special status granted to aboriginals under the various treaties, etc., ALL of which should be cancelled by an Act of Parliament so that EVERYONE in Canada is equal.

I would add that, at Wabasca-Demarais, on Doucette Tower, I met many Slavey Indians who were/are among the finest human beings I have ever known. The folks at Ingenika were just a total pleasure to know and I enjoyed living and working with them, as I did at Wabasca.

We NEED to put pressure on the politicians to ensure that the R.C.M.P. ENFORCE the Criminal Code of Canada in situations like this as these threats are now commonplace. IF, they havce time to confiscate a person's guns due to a problem with the CFC paperwork, they dammed well have time to protect innocent citizens!!!

This IS a political battle, one of many we face to maintain OUR hunting/guns heritage and OUR rights.

[boxhitch]

The RCMP are working for a living too. And operate under guidelines set down in Ottawa, by the same bureaucrats that feed us all the other BS.
When there is no political will to change things, and citizens don't have the rights to stand up for themselves, the Bretheren will keep thumbing their noses at anyone they want, if they choose ..

[bsa30-06]

These guys should have been charged and taken away.To ask or tell somebody that hasn't done anything wrong to leave for the night, well the guilty party stays behind is absolute bullshit.

[Rackmastr]

Its risk management BSA.....I think Tse Kay has 2 officers on at a time....if there is a large number of threatening people with firearms in the bush, the officers involved have the choice of either dealing with it themselves, which is not smart, or calling in a team to help with the situation. This time they chose non-confrontation....

Officers arent gods.....they do what they can and they do it to stay safe and stay alive.....

[bsa30-06]

Its risk management BSA.....I think Tse Kay has 2 officers on at a time....if there is a large number of threatening people with firearms in the bush, the officers involved have the choice of either dealing with it themselves, which is not smart, or calling in a team to help with the situation. This time they chose non-confrontation....

Officers arent gods.....they do what they can and they do it to stay safe and stay alive.....

Agreed........but the proper thing to do would have been to place a phone call that night and showed up the next morning with help and arrest every one of those a$$holes.Maybe they did but from the story i don't get that impression, if they did then they did the right thing , if they didn't then all they did was send the message that this kind of behavior would be tolerated.

[BCLongshot]

Sounds like the Wild West !!!

I'm in !!!

[Kechika]

I know of someone that had to go up there for work.He was told to bring a gun as he may have to shoot his way out.Oh ya it was a RCMP officer that offered this advice

[moosinaround]

I worked up in that part of the world for two summers. The most beautiful countery ive worked in. Had my camp set up on the Akie river right on the finlay mainline. Was there for two to three months doing 10 and 4's. I left my rigging right there for the whole month and never had a problem with stuff going missing or confrontations. When I got up into thye area for the first time I made a point of talking to a few locals to find out about getting permission to camp where I did. Thay said it was all good to park where I did and thanked me for asking permission. I began BSing with these guys every now and then at camp and on the roads, and It was a very plesant experience. I guess news travelled and they figured I was OK where I was. Seen sooo much wildlife up there it was not funny, Man there was a grizz up there at the back end of the Paul fsr that was the size of a volkswagon!! Watched caribou migrate on the tops of the ridges at the back end of the Pelly fsr. HUGE dollies, had a 4lb er on and a dollie come up that made the one I had on look like a bait fish. I definately will get back up there one of these days may put in for a Grizz up there, seen LOTS of them. Moosin.

[Hilgy]

Isnt it crazy that we have to ask permission to hunt and camp on crown land.

a very good friend of mine just got back from Kingcome inlet Grizzly hunting. He flew into the old interfor camp at the head of the inlet. he was met by a bunch of the locals who were there getting supplies and was told that he was not allowed to hunt there. he informed them that other than reserve land on the other side of the river the rest was crown land and open for hunting.

They told him that they considered all thier land and he had better not do any hunting.

A day later he got his grizz. 30 min after he fired the shots a truck shows up with 4 guys in it and confronted him asking what he was doing shooting on thier land and that he had told that they did not allow hunting. he told them he was just shooting at a pop can(his bear had run about 40 yards into the bush) after they left he skinned out his bear and hid the hide.

The next day the float plane came to drop off more supplies and pick him up. He hid the hide in his pack so he could get it past the natives. When he was boarding the plane he was told not to come back.

So when do we say enough is enough. this is public land that we have the right to access.I have been told by MOE that even the guide that was up there has pulled out because of too mant unpleasent encounters with the natives.

I am trying to get my buddy to write a very detailed letter to both MOE and the local CO for the area so that they have record of what is going on.

Personaly I have had enough of this bullsh!t


Hilgy

[Orangethunder]

Quite frankly I am tired hearing stories like this. If white guys or 'non first nations' tried to pull a stunt like do you think that they would ever see the light of day? I dont. I was mountain biking at a local hill when a gang of native protesters jumped a guy kicking him unconcious while the RCMP watched. Total BS! While I do my best to keep this from becoming ugly it is almost at that point. Sadly our government still insists on throwing nothing but money at the problem. What we need as a society is a judge to start setting some examples of people, regardless of their decent. I fear that dealing with land claims is only beginning for us.
FYI: The oldest human remains in North America are caucasoid, whose land is it?

[Will]

Come to my Campfire as a Friend and I'm likely to share my Booze with you ! :-D

Come to my Campfire looking to "take it" and well.......... :twisted:


These guys should have been charged and taken away.To ask or tell somebody that hasn't done anything wrong to leave for the night, well the guilty party stays behind is absolute bullshit.
Exactly !!!!:???:

[GoatGuy]

We've had our camps raided before also on the North West side of 7A.

Same deal, but no guns drawn. 2 FT RCMP officers who are supposed to rotate shift but end up going out together for backup.

It's a fairly exciting world that's for sure.

[Gateholio]

Honestly?

Someone comes into my camp armed, pointing guns at me..trying to steal from me? I'd let them steal.

Tell me to get off thier Crown land? I'd shoot.

[cwocarsten]

Just remember it is always one bad apple that spoils the bushel. Any one no matter what race, religion, that does not respect another persons (hunters)rights, space, gets no respect from me. What goes around comes around. I had a person challenge me and threaten me at hunting camp which petered out when I reminded them that I was armed too.

[kutenay]

In today's Canada, where the BS about "racism" has been and is being utilized for socio-economic advantage by visible minority recent immigrants as well as mixed-race persons who choose to ignore the European aspects of their lineage and emphasize whatever aboriginal blood they may have, these kinds of situations WILL occur AND seem to be increasing.

I understand what Gatehouse is trying to say here, BUT, IF you shoot an aboriginal or several for merely telling you to get off CROWN LAND, that they "claim" at "theirs" WILL get you charged and probably convicted of at least "Manslaughter" and quite possibly a more serious charge of "Murder".

IF, you can prove "Self-defence", NOT as easy as we often like to think, the costs in legal fees, the vicious vilification that you WILL experience in the media as a "RACIST", who SHOT A POOR INDIAN WITH A NASTY OLD GUN, WILL have a HUGE impact on your life as witness the "apology" this past week in Ontario concerning the shooting of the radical Indian terrorist, Dudley George, at Ipperwash in 1995, by an O.P.P. member.

The ONLY way that this WILL be resolved is when a sufficient number of Canadians DEMAND absolute EQUALITY for ALL citizens and special "rights"for none. Given our current political process and the weighted voting system, that is not likely to happen, soon. This situation benefits the large resource corporations and THAT is WHY it is allowed to go on.

I will say that, IF, I were attacked and beaten by a gang of Indians, with the R.C.M.P. watching and survived; I would immediately involve the media, bring charges against the R.C.M.P. under both Can. Criminal Code and B.C. Human Rights legislation and see what happened using our legal system. IF, that failed, as it well might in this sad excuse for a democracy we call Canada, well, MY "heritage" is originally Viking and revenge is mandatory in "my culture".

We need to seriously lobby Ottawa on this issue and VERY FORCEFULLY, Canada belongs to ALL of us!

[mapguy]

kutenay " RADICAL INDIAN TERRORIST" might be a really poor choice of words I believe he was just a young indian who liked to shoot off his mouth at a rally
What do we call caucasions at a rally PICKETERS or PROTESTERS .
Having said that the rcmp are allowing that to continue by not charging those individuals . If they all show up to rob you there all guilty . A formal complaint may give them incentive to allow the resourses to deal with that situation .

[rand]

Any one impaired or not that points a firearm,handles a firearm in an un safe maner to you or any one is unstable.There intent is to use the fire arm if need be.The RCMP is right in saying shoot first.

[boxhitch]

The RCMP is right in saying shoot first.

Not in todays world. You can bet the RC wouldn't be supportive of this method in court either. You would go down alone.

[rand]

That coud'nt be more true........

[BCLongshot]

OK Let's see if I can help U guys understand where we live...

We live in a HUGE land mass much of which is still untamed, this is good but is bad.

We can hunt in open season for game which most people only dream about.

Therefore we have to figure out how to deal with or get along with others who look at this differently, remember these areas are WILD !!! I like this, others do to.

Naturally it is pretty f***in scary but if you don't like it hunt where it's safe.

Why do people have to run to the goverment crying about stuff when they're out and way out in the great untamed wilderness we still have ?

I'm thankful we can stiill go to these places but don't bring you wives and children. Only bring your buddies who want the same ADVENTURE.

I think it's great that guys post threads warning people about certain areas so they can decide what they would like to do.

I hope I'm clear and don't get a bunch of hacking.

I know we feel we have the RIGHT to go do things safely but reality is real.

Again I love and am thankful that I live in the WILD WEST !!!


Thanks Dillybar

[Chuck]

Sounds like the country is going to hell in a handbasket if you asked me!

[mapguy]

bclongshot you need to share whatever your on ,Wild West hehehehe
being mug at gunpoint for booze is just stupid
It's called robbery with violence
Those people need to be charged before someone shoots one in fear for their lives .Who in their right mind would want the hassle of a manslaughter charge

[BCLongshot]

Ya I agree they should be charged and would create a sh*t stir to make sure.

I mean that we take the good with the bad and some guys would come out the winners in a situation like that.

We need to know where we're going before we go.

I have a buddy that went to Jones Lake with his kids 1 longweekend here in the Fraser Valley, ended up super violent etc etc.

I would never take my kids there camping but I've gone there hunting with my buddy.

Super Natural B.C. is right but define "Natural" ?

Probably the most dangerous place is Stanley Park after supper.

I'm not saying it's OK 'cause it's not but screaming that when your surrounded by SuperLosers won't help U.

Hopefully I'm more clear.

It's good that Dillybar posted the thread so we know what we're going into. Like so many other places. If it's totally controlled beyond any danger we won't be carrying around guns hunting because we won't be allowed.

Therefore you have to have a bit of the Wild West.

[BCLongshot]

Oh and it could be that I've been eating more salad trying to lose 20 lbs. I am feeling light headed. lol lol

[ryanb]

There's a reason the odds of getting a moosedraw in 7-40 are so good, and it sure isn't because of a lack of moose. I think if you make an effort to be friendly with the natives, you MIGHT not have a problem, but probably no guarantees.

[mapguy]

hehhehehehehee too funny bclongshot.
Had a handicapped friend go up that way couple years back he talked to the natives and had no problems .

[whalebone]

Just wanted to post on this issue as I've stayed in both villiages after the incident with dillybar. Tsay Khey is a beautiful spot where there is a zero tolerence to alcohol and drugs. The people there are plesent and nice.

Fort Ware doesn't have the same rules as Tsay Khey and alcohol and drugs are rampent.The villiage is in dire need of repairs but the people we met were plesent. We were informed of the bad apples of Fort Ware as they give the whole region a bad name. From my experince, the Fort Ware area should be avoided and that common sense be used when camping in that area. It is too bad that the bad apples of Fort Ware give such a bad name to the people in the region. The people in Tsay Khey don't really care for the people in Fort Ware for that reason. It is good to see people aren't afraid to talk on such important issue.

[BCLongshot]

Exactly whalebone most people 99% will have a problem therefore avoid it.

You know I went out for lunch with my beautiful wife today and ordered a salad and that's all I ate !!!

I'm going to be a hunk of steel in a month.

Wait 'til Elkhound see's me.....

[Deaddog]

I too have spent some time in both Fort ware and Tsay Key , I would stay away from Fort ware and I wouldn't hesitate to hunt around Tsay Key, It is however a vastly different world up there than anything most of us have experienced, taking our way of doing things and expectations to that area of BC is not realistic.

[jessbennett]

In all honesty, can anyone honestly tell me that if any non aboriginal persons tried this, they would get away with it???? uh i dont think so....:evil:...

it is absolute bill$h1t that someone should have to be scared to go into the great outdoors (of all places):???:, for fear of mugging, beating, possible mollestation, or um........ oh yeah DEATH. the irony of that is just sickening..... head to the hills to get away from the "city" and get mugged by the "locals" for a bottle or mr noodles........

good ole government. i think its time they pour some miracle grow on the"boys" and get a pair and put their foot down....:evil:

[The Hermit]

I worked for the local PD for seven years as their shrink. I can tell you in good faith that the rules that they live and die by is that if anyone even brands a knife at them in a threatening manner and are within twenty feet they are free to shoot to kill. This has been tested in court a few times both in Victoria and Vancouver in the last five or six years... after internal review and review by an investigation team from another department in every case the cop was found to be within his rights to protect himself.

I think if anyone, drunk or not, came into my camp pointing a weapon at me I'd FEEL threatened and fearful for my life... BANG! Yes it would be the shits dealing with the emotional and legal aftermath but at least I'd be alive! It might also send a freakin message to any group of arseholes that think they can threaten another person's life with total impunity!

[ryanb]

There's a reason the odds of getting a moosedraw in 7-40 are so good, and it sure isn't because of a lack of moose. I think if you make an effort to be friendly with the natives, you MIGHT not have a problem, but probably no guarantees.

I might add I got similar warnings when I asked about a Grizz draw in 7-38. We went anyways and never had any trouble with natives. In fact we barely saw any where we were. Camp away from the main throughfares and a good distance from the reserve, and be one guard and you should be OK.

[Rackmastr]

Ryan,
Did you end up killin your grizz on that hunt? I remember talkin to you about it before you went....just never heard about it after.

Tons of grizz up in that country....its a nice area for sure...

[ryanb]

Ryan,
Did you end up killin your grizz on that hunt? I remember talkin to you about it before you went....just never heard about it after.

Tons of grizz up in that country....its a nice area for sure...

No, we never saw one. Tons of black bears, and some tracks we could never put a bear into. Very beautiful country and more game than I've ever seen anywhere in my life.

[Rackmastr]

Ryan,
Ah too bad man. I think I'm goin up with a friend to kill one next year. He's a resient and will probably draw...I'll go along for the ride and show him around a bit. It definatly is a nice area.....lots of game for sure. Makes me wish I was a BC resident.....

[WOLVERINE-RIDER]

this is a very touchy subject to me so I probably shouoldn't comment....but....why is this such a problem. Why does a native have to be treated differently than a white man? If I was to threaten someone with my hunting rifle I would be in jail. Plain and simple. Yet I can't go hunting on land that I have paid for, land that I have paid to get to, animals that I have paid to hunt for, with rifles that I obtained lawfully, and have taken the proper courses and training to use, through a government program that "says" I can hunt there with that license.

[Rackmastr]

!

Wow...that wasnt horribly racist....nothing wrong with a conversation about equal rights....but the 'open season' comment was just ignorant as hell. Grow up....

[Elkhound]

You know I went out for lunch with my beautiful wife today and ordered a salad and that's all I ate !!!

I'm going to be a hunk of steel in a month.

Wait 'til Elkhound see's me.....

Meow...... I lost 25lbs since I saw you guys last too. It's hard to be this good looking.

Back to the thread at hand. This is a touchy subject to be sure. A couple years ago we went to hunt on the border of 5-12 and 5-13. Closest RCMP was Alexis creek. My one buddy got off a couple days ahead of the rest of us so he left early to secure our camp spot. Set up camp....went hunting.....came back and camp was thrashed. Holes in the tent, lanterns smashed, etc.....nothing taken. He slept with his rifle that night, stayed at camp the next day, did not hunt and we showed up that night about 1am....he still was sleeping with his rifle. Good thing I callled out when we hiked in as I do not like to scare anyone......just a habit. Good thing as he was a little jumpy. Sucks this kind of stuff happens. It was the same year they closed Immy bulls in MU5 due to native roadblocks and other problems.

[Elkhound]

Wow...that wasnt horribly racist....nothing wrong with a conversation about equal rights....but the 'open season' comment was just ignorant as hell. Grow up....

Yes it was....I deleted both posts........Wolverine-Rider. This is your warning. Any more racist comments like that on HBC and you will get a timeout.