What Happened To Black Powder Hunting In BC??????

[One Shot]

A number of years ago BC had Black Powder Only seasons as well as the ability to use Black Powder rifles in some of the archery seasons in some regions. At the time these seasons were for traditional muzzleloading black powder rifles and smoothbores as inlines black powder rifles were not available at the time.

Most importantly what happened to these seasons and why?

Did they die a slow death or did they get eliminated fast?

I do know that there was opposition from the bow hunters as they said that they felt unsafe but I am led to believe (from two bow hunters) that it was more about not wanting to share the allocation and season with the BP hunters. Did this lend to the demise of BP seasons?

Did the proliferation of scoped inline black powder rifles lend anything to the demise of the black powder seasons?

Any accurate information would be greatly appreciated.....

[Bugle M In]

Interesting, hadn't crossed my mind, but now that you bring it up.....hmmmm.
I always thought it was an interesting choice of weapon.
All I can say is, I don't miss them at the range.
If you were stuck sitting beside a person shooting BP, you would know what I mean.
Big Bang, followed by having to wait 5 minutes for the smoke to clear before you could see your own
target again.....not fun.

[buckshot]

I can't recall black powder seasons in the regs. I remember thinking that, if BC went like Saskatchewan or Alberta with black powder or "special weapon" season, l would have gotten one. I would have been cool I think!

[wos]

Good question. I have often wondered that myself. I'm at the point in my life that a season like that could be a lot of fun.

[carnivore]

Maybe the season should be for "Primitive Weapons" that are defined something like long, compound bows - crossbows, traditional flintlock or caplock rifles with no telescopic sights, and no modern inline BP rifles. For the real adventuresome they could throw in spears and tomahawks.

[tackdriver]

It was ruined by the new inline muzzle loaders...

[wos]

Is it possible to get a primitive wepon season started in bc?

[375shooter]

I would like to see a late elk muzzleloader season here in the agricultural area of the peace region.

I used to do quite a bit of grouse hunting with a muzzleloader. I have a .36 caliber Hawken-style caplock. I loaded it with patched round balls and Pyrodex. Those were fun times.

[moosecaller]

There was a late moose season up by groundbirch in December for round ball & patch only (no minies) This was over 20 years ago, I heard the reason it got shut down is because people heard shots after dark! Go figure a BP shooter unloading their rifle via discharge after a day of hunting. Imagine someone jumping to conclusions about that and complaining? This is what I heard can't confirm it but sounds kneejerk enough to shut it down. I did this hunt a couple of times and it was great.

[moosecaller]

I would like to see a late elk muzzleloader season here in the agricultural area of the peace region.

I used to do quite a bit of grouse hunting with a muzzleloader. I have a .36 caliber Hawken-style caplock. I loaded it with patched round balls and Pyrodex. Those were fun times.

This would get my vote! And lift some of the restrictions for it as well.

[Whonnock Boy]

Considering the improvements to black powder firearms and the capability of easily shooting 150 yards, I don't think we could consider them a primitive firearm any more.

[moosecaller]

Considering the improvements to black powder firearms and the capability of easily shooting 150 yards, I don't think we could consider them a primitive firearm any more.

Keep the primitive part by using only patch and ball and loose BP only. No sabot or minie. Inlines can't shoot balls and patch well at all.

[Ozone]

Why do you need a special season? You can hunt with these weapons in the GOS cant you?

[moosecaller]

Why do you need a special season? You can hunt with these weapons in the GOS cant you?

Yes you can hunt during the GOS with these weapons, the OP was questioning what happen to the season they once had for this. I think this line of thought may have also have had something to do with it being cut from the regulations, just a theory on what shuts down our options we once had?

[StoneHorse]

Nothing in the regulations against muzzle loader rifles being used for hunting. It would be nice to see a primitive firearm only season (cap and flintlock, no in-line.)

Maybe we could get the BCWF to petition :rolleyes: the BC government for a front stuffing, black power season. Maybe integrate it with a archery season.

[1899]

There used to be a black powder only late season moose hunt. Went the way of the dodo decades ago. I asked the same question a few years ago - try a search as I can't remember the answers given.

[Whonnock Boy]

IMO the Federation has more important things to do than lobby for a muzzle loader season. Our seasons are already liberal enough, and the bow hunters would be dead against it. We don't need to be fighting ourselves any more than we already do.

[moosecaller]

IMO the Federation has more important things to do than lobby for a muzzle loader season. Our seasons are already liberal enough, and the bow hunters would be dead against it. We don't need to be fighting ourselves any more than we already do.

And we have seen how fair the government is with the LEH allocation! They would not listen to any request of this type, it would be as effective as peeing against the wind to take up this as a cause, we had it once for what ever reason we lost it and it will in all likelihood never return.

[One Shot]

Considering the improvements to black powder firearms and the capability of easily shooting 150 yards, I don't think we could consider them a primitive firearm any more.

For the purpose here I am referring to traditional black powder muzzleloaders and not inlines as inlines are generally scoped taking away the traditional sense of hunting.

[One Shot]

Is it possible to get a primitive wepon season started in bc?

Looking at the possibility of creating an initiative for its return...

[Wentrot]

IMO the Federation has more important things to do than lobby for a muzzle loader season. Our seasons are already liberal enough, and the bow hunters would be dead against it. We don't need to be fighting ourselves any more than we already do.

I have a bow. I don't give two shits if this happened. I can only see the high and mighty archery boys crying about this but they tend to whine about everything anyhow.

[One Shot]

Why do you need a special season? You can hunt with these weapons in the GOS cant you?

Correct you can. A lot of regions in NA have a special season for BP or include it within existing archery seasons. In a sense traditional muzzleloaders with open sights are not much different than archery as far as limitations go. The average BP hunter would only be able to shoot 50-75 yds.

[One Shot]

IMO the Federation has more important things to do than lobby for a muzzle loader season. Our seasons are already liberal enough, and the bow hunters would be dead against it. We don't need to be fighting ourselves any more than we already do.

Sounds like you are already fighting against this.......

[knighthunter]

Not much to do with this post but Manitoba has for years had a muzzleloader/black powder season for deer. It lasts for 3 weeks and both inline and traditional ones are allowed. Scoped or not. Not everyone has perfect eyesight so a scope is nice.

[Whonnock Boy]

Not at all, I'm just looking at the reality of it. We have already witnessed opposition to the youth season that coincides with the archery season, and this would just inflame the issue.


Sounds like you are already fighting against this.......

[wos]

In my dream world I would like to see archery season changed back to a primitive wepon season. I can't see why any one who loves hunting would dispute getting more opportunities.

[One Shot]

Not at all, I'm just looking at the reality of it. We have already witnessed opposition to the youth season that coincides with the archery season, and this would just inflame the issue.

There was some speculation inregards as to who would do the actual shooting in the youth season based on what some idiotic parents posted and made comments on. With this I would have to concure with.

[quadrakid]

3 pages in here and i still don,t see any proof that we ever had muzzleloader seasons in bc as the op states.

[adriaticum]

Why do you need a special season? You can hunt with these weapons in the GOS cant you?

Agreed. I don't see any restrictions in the GOS on these. So go ahead used them if you've got them.

[dracb]

Some years ago i asked a Ministry official why the muzzle loader season was abolished. He responded that in the Ministry's view the modern inline was not hunting at a major disadvantage to a cartridge rifle. Thus the muzzle loader preference disappeared.

[StoneHorse]

IMO the Federation has more important things to do than lobby for a muzzle loader season. Our seasons are already liberal enough, and the bow hunters would be dead against it. We don't need to be fighting ourselves any more than we already do.
Heaven forbid a handful of muzzle loader hunters should step on the toes of a handful of archery hunters. Shouldn't the BCWF be representing the interest of ALL their members? Its exactly this type of attitude (various disciplines protecting "their turf") is why the "gun/hunting lobby" is at very best is a loose conglomerate. The antis are united in their cause. We on the other hand don't seem to care too much for the other guy as long as the government leaves [insert here] my discipline alone.

Having said that and already stated, no law or reason not to take your smoke pole out hunting.

[Whonnock Boy]

I believe that is exactly what they are doing. I am in my sixth year of being on this forum, and iirc, this is the first time that I have seen the questioning of a return of the muzzle loader season. I would think that if enough people came forward wanting the return of it, the federation would do their best to research the pros and cons, and then lobby to implement if in favor of it.


Shouldn't the BCWF be representing the interest of ALL their members?

[moosecaller]

3 pages in here and i still don,t see any proof that we ever had muzzleloader seasons in bc as the op states.

As previously stated I went hunting during a black powder season in the early 90's around Groundbirch just a few miles north of Chetwyn it was round ball only and I got two moose in the 3 years I went during this special season. I don't know what proof I could offer? and don't really see a need to prove it? I fail to see what having proof of this would matter? What point are you attempting to make, and how would it help the OP's original question?

[StoneHorse]

I believe that is exactly what they are doing. I am in my sixth year of being on this forum, and iirc, this is the first time that I have seen the questioning of a return of the muzzle loader season. I would think that if enough people came forward wanting the return of it, the federation would do their best to research the pros and cons, and then lobby to implement if in favor of it.
Well that is good to hear.

I was really put off by the BCWF some time ago when I wrote a detailed letter asking for support and assistance in an initiative I wanted to bring forward. After several weeks, I received a one sentence reply telling me something I already knew. I doubt they read past the first paragraph of my letter before I was blown off.

[Ambush]

Moosecaller is correct. I hunted that season and area to, but not with his luck. We saw moose, but not close enough or quick enough. We met a group there that were dedicated to it and they killed moose.
It was so cold the vinyl seats in my truck were as hard and cold as cement. Not sure why it was cancelled, maybe too hard to patrol and enforce the rules. We met a few trucks with scoped rimfires on the seat. "Wolf" guns you know.:wink:

[Ambush]

I have a bow. I don't give two shits if this happened. I can only see the high and mighty archery boys crying about this but they tend to whine about everything anyhow.

I hunt with a bow all season and in rifle areas. My choice and I don't switch when the going gets tough.

As far as your comment describing me, you are just envious shit disturber, with no clue.

[Ferenc]

3 pages in here and i still don,t see any proof that we ever had muzzleloader seasons in bc as the op states.
Well ya got me looking... 1991/92 hunting regs had the Special weapon season for the omineca-peace region.. Season ran for bull moose in 7-32. Nov 21-Dec 3.... Muzzle loaders...no antler restriction... Page 61.. Gots lots of old huntin regs.... : )

[Bugle M In]

Well ya got me looking... 1991/92 hunting regs had the Special weapon season for the omineca-peace region.. Season ran for bull moose in 7-32. Nov 21-Dec 3.... Muzzle loaders...no antler restriction... Page 61.. Gots lots of old huntin regs.... : )

Do you have the regs from the early 60's that was only 1 page, both sides???!!!!!!
I'll have to grab that one from my Dad, scan it, and post it!....lol

[Gateholio]

I only see 2 situations where a ML season would make sense, and both would require traditional ML. no inline etc.

1. Archery season could be expanded to Primitive Weapon season.

2. Areas with shotgun and shot only

Black powder or BP substitute, no pellet powders. Ball or conical projectile, no sabots. Ignition by flint or percussion cap,. that sort of thing.

There are plenty of scoped inline rifles that are capable of clean hits at least 200 yards away, probably 300. There is no point in having a special season for hunters that choose to use these, they can hunt in GOS

[BimmerBob]

Gatehouse, Muzzle Loaders are Muzzle Loaders, they all shoot a single shot and then require a reasonable time to reload. Your argument for a "Primitive Weapon Season" is just like the Bow Hunter vs Cross-Bow Hunter debate, silly and divisive. If there is to be a ML Season in BC (which I support whole-heartedly) then let's not nitpick about the type of ML, they all should be included in my humble opinion as there will not be that many that take it up anyway and we really do want to encourage hunting not make elites out of some and chumps out of others.

[RiverOtter]

I'm inclined to agree with Gates on this one. The whole purpose of a primitive weapon season, IMO, is to extend a season without greatly increasing the harvest rate. Or alternately, to allow hunting in an area where lethal range is limited due to space confines, ie, proximity to residential areas. Excluding In-Line ML's based on effective range is not unreasonable then, as they are essentially a single shot rifle with similar range capabilities.

The age old, "bow vs x-bow" debacle comes down to personal bias, IMO, as the effective range of both is same/same. Traditional archery guys just get pissed because the learning curve(Pun there:-P) for a x-bow is way shorter.

[moosecaller]

I only see 2 situations where a ML season would make sense, and both would require traditional ML. no inline etc.

1. Archery season could be expanded to Primitive Weapon season.

2. Areas with shotgun and shot only

Black powder or BP substitute, no pellet powders. Ball or conical projectile, no sabots. Ignition by flint or percussion cap,. that sort of thing.

There are plenty of scoped inline rifles that are capable of clean hits at least 200 yards away, probably 300. There is no point in having a special season for hunters that choose to use these, they can hunt in GOS

This appears to be a reasonable guideline for what a primitive weapon season (ML) would look like. This is what the season for late moose years back looked like with the exception of the conical it was round ball only.

[tater]

Muzzleloader seasons in North America have been drastically reduced or removed in the last 20 years due to advances in technology (inlines/pellets/sabots etc.). Game managaers in several jurisdictions look on the new ML's as not being within the spirit of harvest as when those seasons were originally set out (low take, more days per take etc.).

If the muzzleloading community is serious about getting a season, they will have to acknowledge it is about the challenge, and exclude scopes inlines etc.

Yes, i am pretty much a dedicated trad hunter these days, but my first deer was taken as a kid with a .58 cal muzzleloader. The area i took that deer in lost it's muzzleloader season in about 1998 iirc (no, not BC).

I would have no problem with a primitive weapons season, but that is the key: Primitive. Inlines are not primitive, and the argument of "we need to stick together" is disingenuous and doesn't take into acount the rationale behind special weapons seasons. I acknowledge my paper cartridge black powder Sharps should not be eligible in a primitive season, and it is less effective than a new generation inline.

[RiverOtter]

Not sure if traditional ML's would even have provisions for mounting a scope, but I don't see that as a real issue, as it doesn't extend their lethal range. It just allows those "more seasoned" individuals the ability to still participate when their eyesight drops off. No more of an advantage than a scope on a x-bow, IMO.

[375shooter]

Only old style caplocks and flintlocks loaded with black powder or black powder substitute and with either patched round balls or conical-style bullets allowed. No in-lines, no scopes and no sabots allowed.

Something like this http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/trade-rifle.php

That would get my vote.

[knighthunter]

Gatehouse, Muzzle Loaders are Muzzle Loaders, they all shoot a single shot and then require a reasonable time to reload. Your argument for a "Primitive Weapon Season" is just like the Bow Hunter vs Cross-Bow Hunter debate, silly and divisive. If there is to be a ML Season in BC (which I support whole-heartedly) then let's not nitpick about the type of ML, they all should be included in my humble opinion as there will not be that many that take it up anyway and we really do want to encourage hunting not make elites out of some and chumps out of others.

Well said Bob. I've hunted with my inline mzl with a scope for about 10 years in Manitoba before moving to BC 6 years ago and I really enjoyed the hunting, knowing my limited range and not much of a chance of a follow up shot.. My max accurately shooting range is about 100 yards as my rifle is one of the earlier manufactured black powder muzzleloaders.

[wos]

So what do we need to get the wheel in motion?

[moosecaller]

So what do we need to get the wheel in motion?

Impossible comes to mind. If we hunters as a whole cannot get the government to play fair with LEH allocations I don't think we have a snowball chance in getting any movement on this. Don't want to sound too negative but this is government we are dealing with! If no one is getting their pockets lined you won't get much action.

[Gateholio]

Gatehouse, Muzzle Loaders are Muzzle Loaders, they all shoot a single shot and then require a reasonable time to reload. Your argument for a "Primitive Weapon Season" is just like the Bow Hunter vs Cross-Bow Hunter debate, silly and divisive. If there is to be a ML Season in BC (which I support whole-heartedly) then let's not nitpick about the type of ML, they all should be included in my humble opinion as there will not be that many that take it up anyway and we really do want to encourage hunting not make elites out of some and chumps out of others.

I would agree with you if BC hunting seasons were like some other places and say the month of September was ML only, but BC already has long seasons. Where would we put this ML only season?

[wos]

What??? Isn't the government just a representative of the people? Ask and we shall receive! That's my understanding. who and how do we ask.

[J_T]

The Government and the Provincial table has been actively discussing the "Special Weapons" policy and procedure since 2007. For the first 6 years it was the BCWF that did not support it, and now it is Government that is holding it up. Some advisory tables consider this lack of decision as a moratorium on special weapons seasons. Other regional committees proceed as they deem required.
The only real amendment proposed from the existing policy is a phrase that suggests, a special weapon season should be considered before shifting from GOS to LEH. This is intended to maximize hunter opportunity while maintaining reduced harvest levels.

[Leaseman]

Some years ago i asked a Ministry official why the muzzle loader season was abolished. He responded that in the Ministry's view the modern inline was not hunting at a major disadvantage to a cartridge rifle. Thus the muzzle loader preference disappeared.

Exactly!!

I built a "kit" gun, .50 cal, very early 80's. Had exactly one season to use it before they shut it down!

It was due to the new inline and distances shot......

[Brno22F]

I'm inclined to agree with Gates on this one. The whole purpose of a primitive weapon season, IMO, is to extend a season without greatly increasing the harvest rate. Or alternately, to allow hunting in an area where lethal range is limited due to space confines, ie, proximity to residential areas. Excluding In-Line ML's based on effective range is not unreasonable then, as they are essentially a single shot rifle with similar range capabilities.

The age old, "bow vs x-bow" debacle comes down to personal bias, IMO, as the effective range of both is same/same. Traditional archery guys just get pissed because the learning curve(Pun there:-P) for a x-bow is way shorter.

Also agree with you and Gatehouse.
Archery is archery, whether crossbow, traditional bow or compound bow.
So why do we need to split hairs over muzzle loaders, in line, or rifle? Why would we ask to have our hunting opportunity divided up based on the type of firearm one is using? To take this to the extreme, maybe I should advocate for a single shot rifle season so I can go in the woods with my Ruger number 1 and other hunters who prefer to shoot a lever, bolt gun or semi auto can stay home because they have more firepower.
As mentioned previously, we have very generous hunting seasons here in BC and lots of opportunity, whether GOS or LEH to hunt with your weapon of choice.

[bridger]

This would get my vote! And lift some of the restrictions for it as well.

Can you not hunt with a black powder gun in the late elk season now?

[riflebuilder]

In some US states the muzzle loader seasons are for flintlock or percussion cap with patched ball or conical not sabots or scopes. It is not unreasonable to restrict equipment types. I would prefer to have any muzzle loader be legal and each to his own. I have all three types so I am good any way you want it.

[TPK]

As already stated, if you want to hunt with a BP firearm, by all means do so, you don't need a "special BP season" , just do it. I doubt you will get the BCWF onside with a divisive issue like this, it likely wouldn't get enough support from the membership. You could try .. but why would you? The BCWF shouldn't (JMO) support these special interest seasons beyond what we already have (youth and bow I agree with). A BP season .. no thanks, not needed.

[boxhitch]

who and how do we ask.You're not part of a club or BCWF are you ?


Re new inline rifles , had a hunter show up last season with a Nightforce scope on his smoke pole and was prepared to shoot out to 500 yards, he had the dials for it.
Sighting in was fairly easy at 320 on test rounds.

[835]

Knight Ended the season.... as for it coming back.... good luck. Just to put the intent of the season to words these days would have us all messed up for days

[Fisher-Dude]

You can hunt with a muzzleloader from, basically, Sept 10 to Nov 30 in most of the province.

Fill yer boots.

[Fallkniven]

I would definitely be up for a primitive weapons season, I don't see why PML (primitive muzzle loaders) couldn't be added to the 'bow only season'. Good boost for BC retailers, opens opportunity's for hunters, helps diversify hunting...its a great idea. Where's the petition to sign?

[Gateholio]

In many ways a Traditional ML is more in line with "primitive" seasons that a modern compound bow. A modern compound is faster to load and more ergonomic than most old smokepoles. Probably easier to use in most respects.

[Ambush]

In many ways a Traditional ML is more in line with "primitive" seasons that a modern compound bow. A modern compound is faster to load and more ergonomic than most old smokepoles. Probably easier to use in most respects.

Have to have a silencer. We always fired the day's charge just after shooting light ended for the day. These days there'd be all kinds of 911 calls from the "sensitive" crowd.
And accusations of poaching after dark.

[TPK]

I don't see why PML (primitive muzzle loaders) couldn't be added to the 'bow only season'. Good boost for BC retailers, opens opportunity's for hunters, helps diversify hunting...its a great idea. Where's the petition to sign?

Well, if you do, then it isn't a bow only season any more!

I don't see why a special season needs to put into play to accomplish what you want. How is it going to boost retail sales? Those that want to hunt with a BP firearm already do! The diversity in hunting methods is already there, no need to underline BP and give it a special season. If you want to hunt with a bow, BP firearm, or traditional shotgun or rifle you can. A special BP season does not add to the diversity that is already there. There is no reason for you to not use your BP firearm in any firearm season now.

[StoneHorse]

Well, if you do, then it isn't a bow only season any more!

I don't see why a special season needs to put into play to accomplish what you want. How is it going to boost retail sales? Those that want to hunt with a BP firearm already do! The diversity in hunting methods is already there, no need to underline BP and give it a special season. If you want to hunt with a bow, BP firearm, or traditional shotgun or rifle you can. A special BP season does not add to the diversity that is already there. There is no reason for you to not use your BP firearm in any firearm season now.
Maybe we should start a new thread?

Re: What Happened To Black Powder Hunting In BC??????

To

What Happened To Handgun Hunting In BC??????? :p

[Fisher-Dude]

I want a road hunting only season.

I want it a week before Primitive Weapons Season.

Rules would be that shots can only be taken if you are within 50 m of your vehicle. No bows. No muzzleloaders. Only centerfire rifles.

[boxhitch]

I have an antique truck to use for hunting , and an antique muzzleloader
I hope when I turn 65 there will be a special antiquated season, for the old roads only

[StoneHorse]

Now this thread has gone full ******..............never go full ******.

Edit: WTF? The word "******" is censored???

[gunpower]

Can you not hunt with a black powder gun in the late elk season now?You can hunt all season long with a BP.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Maybe the season should be for "Primitive Weapons" that are defined something like long, compound bows - crossbows, traditional flintlock or caplock rifles with no telescopic sights, and no modern inline BP rifles. For the real adventuresome they could throw in spears and tomahawks.


It was ruined by the new inline muzzle loaders...

Exactly!!!!

[Bugle M In]

Maybe the season should be for "Primitive Weapons" that are defined something like long, compound bows - crossbows, traditional flintlock or caplock rifles with no telescopic sights, and no modern inline BP rifles. For the real adventuresome they could throw in spears and tomahawks.
Would make me qualified for a "Status Card"??:mrgreen: