Breeders and dog differences

[Brambles]

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[harley1]

Was looking in to pheasant hunting the other day and came across these guys - http://www.somedayretrievers.com/available-dogs/
if you've been researching you probably already are aware. Just thought I would pass on.

[Brambles]

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[Angus]

I got my lab from Ness Lake Retrievers in Prince George over 10 years ago. Good people, and produced good dogs, many of which were used for placement with law enforcement. Very smart, good drive, and good around the house too.

His Dam came from Someday Retrievers, and I've met Linda Kline (who runs Someday) a couple times at the Sportsmen show at the Tradex.

[Fella]

Cobrador Kennels in Agassiz might be worth checking out. Tonys dogs have won several awards and have achieved their senior hunter designation.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Lab Guy on this site is breeding what should be 1 $hit hot litter. PM him. JimSue, BC Gamebirds, are other members here that breeds good dogs, If you can get one from Cedarbrae on Vancouver Island you wont go wrong. http://cedarbraelabs.webs.com/

[BiG Boar]

I would say there is a definite difference in breeds of labs themselves. There are some psycho high energy hunting dogs, and there are some more laid back ones. Know what you want is the ticket. I like all of Foxtons choices though for a serious hunting dog.

[Brambles]

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[BiG Boar]

Personally I think you should get a purebred mutt. Maybe a labradoodle or pudelpointer. F these inbred high maintenance dogs.

Everyone was thinking it, I just said it. Tongue in cheek of course.

BTW, every breeder that I talked to in my search said they wanted to pair the buyer with the dog. Problem is its impossible to tell a great dog as a puppy. Its sort of just luck of the draw and mostly training put into it. Have fun in your search. There are lots to choose from, and you're going to have this stinking dog for like 12 years, so make it a good one.

[Brambles]

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[ACB]

Have a look at Prairie Storm Kennels out in Sask. They are a very diligent breeder. I believe there pups are $1200 now.

[Brambles]

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[Brambles]

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[RustyBrit]

I have met 2 dogs from Eromit. They are great, intelligent dogs but MY GOD are they hyper. Like 11/10 on the given'er scale. Great for hunting birds and SAR (which is what they did) but were completely bonkers sitting around the bonfire or what have you. So keep that in mind with American/Field labs.
If your worried about size too then think about English vs. Yankee. Our pup (10 months) is a bit of a blend, more Yankee and is about 65 lbs and shouldn't get too much bigger. You see some chunky English heifers but with that usually comes a calmer disposition. (usually.... One not-so-little buddy was in our puppy training class and was a DISASTER.) A horse tranquilizer wouldn't have calmed him down I don't think.
We got our girl from a small breeder outside of PG who has put her American dam into retirement but she made one hack of a cute hybrid with her Yankee/English stud.

If I were to do it again... Hmmm... 95lb slobber monster who is calm and attentive... Or 65lb bullet who will do anything for the chunk of cheese in your hand.... It is a personal choice I guess!

*Mileage may vary*

[Brambles]

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[Angus]

BTW, every breeder that I talked to in my search said they wanted to pair the buyer with the dog. Problem is its impossible to tell a great dog as a puppy. Its sort of just luck of the draw and mostly training put into it.

Completely disagree with this comment, but that's nothing new, as I mostly do with this poster's comments.

In my experience, a good breeder WILL ask what you are looking for in a dog: hunting partner, house dog, hiking partner, beer keg with legs, etc., and will make efforts to match you with a pup. The breeder has these pups for eight weeks before you take your pup home, and probably five to six weeks before you find out which one is yours. By that time they can tell who the high energy, nose to the ground pups are, and who the couch potatoes are.

Whether the dog is "great" or not, well, the lineage will help determine that, but mostly it is up to you and how much time you put in to make your dog "great".

Again, that's my experience, but then again I was never interested in a labradoodles or puddlepointers.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Personally I think you should get a purebred mutt. Maybe a labradoodle or pudelpointer. F these inbred high maintenance dogs.

Everyone was thinking it, I just said it. Tongue in cheek of course.

BTW, every breeder that I talked to in my search said they wanted to pair the buyer with the dog. Problem is its impossible to tell a great dog as a puppy. Its sort of just luck of the draw and mostly training put into it. Have fun in your search. There are lots to choose from, and you're going to have this stinking dog for like 12 years, so make it a good one.
Buy a designer dog like a labra/goldendoodle and you buy a mutt with possibly all the genetic problems of both breeds, and no guarantee how the genes will meld. You may get a hypo allergenic dog that retrieves like a lab/golden and doesn't shed but you may also get a dog that sheds all over, won't retrieve and makes you sneeze and your eyes run, a mutt is a mutt. A Pudelpointer on the other hand is a breed, not a cross breed, that has been developed properly and are now after many generations of careful breeding are a true CKC/AKC recognized breed.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I wish I had something to compare the energy of a purebred American lab to......I have a blue Heeler...he's 15 now and I'm not sure there's much energy left....but he was a bit rowdy in his younger years...my other dog is a chocolate lab/English springer spaniel she's 3 and definitely a high revving mofo...but not very big maybe 45-50 lbs. she wags her tail so hard she bends in the middle......but I can shut her off pretty quick...she's a good girl...outstanding recall...even when she's hot on scent.

An "American" lab is like a field trial bred Springer, they want to be doing they are high energy dogs with a HUGE working drive. That being said every dog is an individual and not all are the same so it's really a case ok do your homework on the parents and siblings, at least it will give you a rough idea.

[lorneparker1]

I got my pup from Prarie storm In Sask.

Lorne

[835]

Brambles,
i know Foxton has aid it,, Cedarbrey,,, and i know you took it off your list..... that is a really bad move. Their dogs are awesome.... that 100$ ferry trip would look like nothing.....
The dogs are great bird dogs. Very stable. easy to control. not skitzo like my Trials dog.. They are a hunt test dog, and they will settle down when told to....

[Brambles]

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[Foxton Gundogs]

Lorne has a great dog from what I understand I wasn't fortunate enough to see her work first hand this year but from the reports I get she did very well in her first season.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?124791-Some-of-my-favourite-pics-from-the-season

[Brambles]

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[Foxton Gundogs]

835's dog is an "American type "trial" dog it did not come from Cedarbrae, His Dad's dog is an "English" type from Cedarbrae and very mellow and laid back. Tracy does field trial her dogs but they are not your typical "American" style "field trial" dogs. I have known Tracy for around 30 yrs and would recommend her dogs to anyone.

[Brambles]

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[835]

Brambles.
Ya, what Jim said..... but to cooberate a bit.

my dog came froma guy named Ian, West coast Retrievers.... gone now? i think?
so ,,, to add to Foxtons post.....

I am a redneck bird hunter, i was raised by a die hard upland hunter Springer owning uncle..... he taught me how to hunt birds and handle dogs... in HIS way... i have had dogs for hunting all my life.
So, i am a dog guy but by no means a professional trainer ..... so please take this for where it is coming from...

Trials dog.. my dog Chase, I love him, he was one of the best upland dogs i have ever been with... he would Swim through breaking waves sea duck hunting in Ucluelet.... he is a great dog BUT!!!
he was one of the most haywire digs ever... he pissed me off to no end at times,, he nocked off a 24" Brown trout one day on the river chasing my fly line..... ya ya i cant say 24" cuz i never saw it but it was big!
He never did anything really bad, he was never blatantly dissobeidient but he was a very large handfull.... he is 12 now. and has finally slowed down.... i will never buy a dog of his like again.

Hunt test,,, Tracys dogs...
will do everything Chase did with the birds... Piper my dads dog is great with Grouse.... She is only 5 but....
An average guy can control her and not want to kill her! lol She sits in the duck blind quietly, she swims through the breakers..... she finds birds and brings them back.. She sits at your feet when you are fishing, she sits in a box on dads quad.
she is soo much more stable then Chase ever was it is silly.

Chase would run loups around any other retreiver, he would beat anything to the bird. I spotted my uncles golden 30 feet of water ,, half way to the ball..... Chase blew by that dog and beat it with out a thought...
he had a nitrous button it semed.... But that energy comes at a cost. Alot of extra training......

[Brambles]

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[Foxton Gundogs]

Call Tracy be up front with your budget she is a great person and your call and enquiry will not be a nuisance to her she would be glad to answer all your questions. She is a vet so you can rest assured her pups are from tested stock and healthy.

[835]

Even if you don't decide to go with her. Dog people love to talk dog. You will learn something.

[lorneparker1]

AND?????!!! Care to share....

Well she's a great dog. She finished her junior hunter title and her WC at 7 months. She will be competing in junior field trials this year and if I can get out to enough of them I think she has a real chance of making a run. She has around 500 retrieves this season. She is quiet in the blind and fairly steady for her age. She has an unreal amount of drive, but through training it can be kept under control. She was very steady out of the gate, and I let it slip a bit as the season progressed. She was pretty crazy in the house till about 10 months then found her off switch and now shes just like every other Lab, lays around and loves people. However, we train 3-5 days a week and she needs lots of exercise. If we miss a few days you will find your shoes in some unknown location and your towels all over the house. Danielle is an absolute amazing person to deal with at prairie storm and we still chat all the time. I am not sure if you are a facebooker or not but if you are look me up and add me and there is a lot of pictures and videos of rosie on there and you can see her in action.

I also posted this thread
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?124791-Some-of-my-favourite-pics-from-the-season

Here is one of her first hunts. Where she is still trying to figure out cripples. She is force fetched but her first few hunts birds in her mouth that were moving got dropped quite a bit. However, you can see how steady she is, how aware she is, and how much go she has. She is kenneling to a dog layout blind to my right. She is also taking casts through a BIG pile of scent. She was only 11months at the time of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG_9WLFFW5c

Lastly here she is bringing a goose back, she is only 52lbs and a small dog, but she likes them big and lively!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncunyl62Bn4

She is a duck dog, but we've started working on sit to flush as well in the last month or 2.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u279/LorneP/1_zpsnr0yu592.jpg (http://s170.photobucket.com/user/LorneP/media/1_zpsnr0yu592.jpg.html)

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u279/LorneP/4_zpsbviemhfe.jpg (http://s170.photobucket.com/user/LorneP/media/4_zpsbviemhfe.jpg.html)


I always like a chance to show my dog off :)

[Brambles]

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[Lots'oLabs]

Ok I'm in the process of looking at breeders in Central to Southern BC, Southern Alberta, Sask.. Northern Washington, Idaho, and Montana. The goal is to create a shortlist for consideration when I go to put a deposit on a Labrador Puppy for the spring of 2017.

Health checks and certifications aside......

-Im curious what people's opinions are if the behavioral differences of dogs vary considerably between breeders...

-Kennel raised vs home raised for their 8 weeks

-American.....vs.......English.......vs.......Ameri can/English blend...

thx, hopefully this stays civil....
I may have missed it, (sorry), but I didn't see where you indicated what you wanted a dog for....ie hunting, hunt tests, competitive field trials, or a great pet. Your breeder choice should be determined by your need. Many great choices for all of the above.
Additionally, health clearances are of primary importance.

As a dog owner there will be many expenses involved. The price of a ferry is a drop in the bucket if it is the right dog.

Deb

[Brambles]

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[Foxton Gundogs]

My dog will be primarily trained for antler shed hunting, but will also be used as a multipurpose family dog, hunting and hiking companion and maybe a bit of blood trailing.

i have been unable to find any breeder who has specifically worked their dogs with sheds, Eromit does have a dog "Pickle" who has taken to finding sheds.

one thing that is frustrating is I've sent emails to 6 breeders and have heard back from 2.

one of those breeders has put me in touch with one of their customers locally
who has a 1 year old pup from one of their litters for me to meet and get a feel for their style of dog..
You don't need a "special" bloodline for a shed dog, any dog with a retrieve/hunt drive can be trained as a shed hunter. I have trained several spaniels, goldens, labs to "hunt horn" Montana on this site is the guy who got me started and is a great source of information. PM him Tim is a great guy and always willing to help

[Brambles]

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[835]

The prey drive in the dog ... thats what your talking about.. its instinct to Hunt...
Im sure ,,, but i really dont know.... if you get a good gun dog,, but sub out the bird wings in training and insert sheds... it should work...

[Foxton Gundogs]

The prey drive in the dog ... thats what your talking about.. its instinct to Hunt...
Im sure ,,, but i really dont know.... if you get a good gun dog,, but sub out the bird wings in training and insert sheds... it should work...

You may be right I've only trained up 8 so far, all well bred field dogs and none from "shed dog" breeding so I probably don't know very much. Llike I said Montana is the go to source here IMO

[RustyBrit]

[QUOTE=Brambles;1754487]
one thing that is frustrating is I've sent emails to 6 breeders and have heard back from 2./QUOTE]

I felt the same way when we started looking for a pup too. In the end, it became more and more obvious that the ones who didn't reply, or replied really late, were usually delaying because I asked too many questions (if you know what I mean)... Things like health clearances were usually answered with statements about how pretty the dam or stud was. In other words, they were beating around the bush because they didn't want to admit their $1200-$1400 puppies were not cleared like they should be. When I emailed (or called) the "good guys" I was always promptly answered for health info and such.
That was my take away from it anyways. It also could just be that they are not that into email, which in this day and age is hard to believe, but understandable. The good old phone calls got me much further in my search.

[Brambles]

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[FirePower]

dont feel offended, I'm fairly hard to impress unless I've met a person first hand and seen their specialty in person, I've met many "hacks" in everyday life that claim to be the next latest and greatest....in fact I've had people recommended to me in the past by individuals claiming how good so and so is....and after meeting so and so....yup you guessed it.....complete effing hack...... therefore I find when specialty info is limited or incomplete it's better to gather your own info, and draw your own conclusions rather than take any one source as gospel. To digress a bit....Actually believe it or not I find the experts to be the worst at following directions and thinking outside the box two occasions immediately come to mind, one with a custom rifle I sent to a premier gun builder with complete directions on how I wanted the chamber and throat set up, followed by a phone call to talk it over....took delivery of the rifle and....you guessed it, they completely eff'ed up the throat....has to send it back and get it done all over again...
The second was a custom Curtis Tatton driveshaft out of Utah...sent directions on how I wanted it, took delivery.....too effing long, had to get a local shop to cut it shorter.

ooohhh a third....was a Custom $400,000 fire truck that the builder accidentally built it off the pre construction meeting drawings not the revised set. Truck showed up with a hosebed Waaay to small. Had to send it back and get it fixed...Ouch...

I know half this crap doesn't apply but it has shown me to second guess and keep an eye on all the variables...Murphies Law.....you If this offends you then I apologize.

If I'm going to spend this kind of money on a dog, you can bet your ass I'm gonna try and get the best candidate for the task at hand. You might not think it matters, just get any ol pup from a litter and train em up...any ol dog can sniff out some ol crusty antler.....but I'm not gonna leave that to chance...nor do I believe it's completely true. Sure I'm sure any retriever/ sporting dog can be trained to find sheds....but I believe some individuals within the breed are just better at it than others. That's the guy I'm after.

Well sir, why would you bother to waste peoples if you have no faith or regard for their input. Some pretty good dog people were trying to help you and you basically told them their information wasn't really worth your while. Then I seem to recall another one of your threads about crossbred mutts where you didn't want to hear any good advice either. I am sure you have it all figured out so stop wasting other's time and just make your own mistakes.

[Brambles]

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[Foxton Gundogs]

Well I have commented on shed dogs before, recommended people contact Montana before and explained the process to others before and this goes back years. No one asked you to "bend over" as you put it I was just trying to be helpful but you know what it's people like you that make people like me reluctant to help, take the chip off your shoulder you may learn something. And BTW your dog will be just as good as it's trainer so you can only blame yourself if it isn't.

[Brambles]

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[Foxton Gundogs]

Again Foxton, I apologize if I've offended you, I wasn't trying sarcastic or rude or ungrateful, I just mearly tried to explain how my brain works, and offer examples on how and why I approach things the way I do. Its no slight on you or anyone else.

i was hoping this thread was going to remain on topic and stay civil but when there's passionate people trying to express themselves through a forum it opens up lots of opportunity for things to go sideways. Sometimes I don't mind a little sideways...but a lot of time it goes REAL sideways.

As a note, yourself and 835 did offer some great Insight to the "American" "English" portion of the initial topic. And in fact I will admit that nearly my entire shortlist of breeders was derived from YOUR past posts and recommendations to other people. I did search and read many of your old posts and I knew your devotion to healthy dogs was first and foremost. So your advice hasn't fallen on deaf ears. I however seemed to have missed your experience with shed dogs with the exception of me remembering one of your Spaniels chewing on a shed under your car after finding it across a fence line. Details are somewhat vague.

Another thing about myself is I don't like to inconvenience anyone, so I RARELY PM people, I would much rather post a topic, and if they want to contribute, then it's their choice. I appreciate you recommending to PM Montana, but I won't PM him, I'm just not wired that way, if one day he finds one of my threads and replies, great, if not, that's fine too.

i hope this goes a little ways in explaining things.

I would be very interested in seeing where you remember that from because I can assure you it never happened. But anyway this is my last response to this thread, I hope you find what you are looking for.

[hotload]

Find a dog with great hunting prey drive, train it with an open mind as to there is more than one way to get this done. Be the trainer you should be by doing your due diligence, bond, learn your dog. The dog will always keep up his end, he just has to know the way. Go shed hunting........... No correspondence needed, no e-mails wanted, don't believe me?, don't care. I have a yard full of sheds all brought straight to me by one great dog. I know first hand how difficult it is to step back from a Type A personality :)))))))

[Brambles]

Thank you, i hope i do as well. I will also stop posting on this thead and i will try and get it locked by the admins.

[Gateholio]

Gone to the dogs