sea wolves

[northernbc]

things that really annoy me, first it was the great bear rain forest and the bloody spirit bear. now we have the sea wolf it is almost to much for me. god what next, magical monarch moose.

[Big Lew]

I couldn't agree more! I'm usually an easy going fellow, but every time I hear any of
those 3 reference's to natural BC environment or animals I get angry. What's even
more annoying is how the media manipulates such stuff and a big part of the ignorant
public just licks it up.

[Rupert Retired]

Yeah well, the media is not manipulating it, they are part of the "ignorant public". The manipulation is done by the multi-million dollar eco-environment movement. They do their job well.

[.308SLAYER]

I seen a spirit bear once, A little one I was.... Hazelton bc

[northernbc]

there is no spirit bear

[scoutlt1]

there is no spirit bear

Say what???? :shock:

[Rob Chipman]

I thought you were talking about sea lions - in Spanish they're called sea wolves. I had to go to google to see the new name for wolves that live on the coast!

[northernbc]

no it is not the salish soul sea lions

[Mulehahn]

Wow, I had to look it up to. When I was a kid sea wolves was another name for orca. Lots of people I know used it. It seemed to fit, working in packs, taking on bigger game. I am upset. I am going to go to green peace and demand that that be restored.

[Steve W]

There was an effort in the 90's to promote white grizzlies in the West Kootenays too. Believe the area is now Goat Range Provincial Park. never gained enough momentum outside of the Kootenays though.

[Rob Chipman]

Should have called them "the Ghost Grizzly" - that would have worked!

[finngun]

there is no spirit bear well ..when tsx bullet runs through both shoulders..sprit is gone..:idea: and fun is over,only heavy work is left..

[40incher]

things that really annoy me, first it was the great bear rain forest and the bloody spirit bear. now we have the sea wolf it is almost to much for me. god what next, magical monarch moose.

Yeah .... well ... that's what happens when you allow bureaucrats, politicians and elitists to create icons out of mere animals.

Let's see, where do I start ...

... the beloved "wild" B.C. steelhead, off limits to harvest but you can wound them 'til the cows come home on the Thompson River lets say. Down to 400 fish, still enough to harass with wide open catch and release even though we're told they are at 10% of their historical abundance.

... grizzly bear, our largest predator, there cute and cuddly and do toilet paper commercials it seems. I thought they used rabbits to wipe their butt?!

... the iconic "Miley Cirus" timber wolf ... southern caribou don't count (they're the only real endangered ones though).

... the "spirit" bear, a genetically-flawed black bear.

... the "endangered" and red-blue-purple-listed Mountain Goat, Elk in Regions 5 and 6, and then there's the Chilkoteen moose.

... now it's the "sea wolf" ... they only eat sea mice according to Hardley Knowit.

... and, lest we forget, the marginalized and eternally bankrupt guides. At least you made the list!

Let's face it, we are California North. Doomed to give up all our rights to appease the elite and the downtrodden. Thanks Crispy.

Give them an inch and they take a mile ... then say its only a millimeter.

Time to stand up.

[Ferenc]

I was even further off..... Thinking U Boats Lol

[skibum]

The photographer was from Pacific Wild - tells you a lot ----- they are 100 times better at publicity that outdoors people.

But what I got from it, was a great way to sneak up and blast a wolf (if I had a waterproof gun that is)

[BiG Boar]

I love a good sea wolf. They are an amazing animal. Very rare indeed

[1899]

god what next, magical monarch moose.

Yes.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/378/395/863.png

[markomoose]

Yes.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/378/395/863.png Looks just like the bull I shot last year!

[lovemywinchester]

... the beloved "wild" B.C. steelhead, off limits to harvest but you can wound them 'til the cows come home on the Thompson River lets say. Down to 400 fish, still enough to harass with wide open catch and release even though we're told they are at 10% of their historical abundance.




Wide open? If you call a season that lasts few weeks in Oct (if there is an open season at all) before being closed early, wide open, you could write for pacific wild.

[Salty]

More Eco Industry branding 'zall it is..
Take a wolf from Cranbrook take him to a salmon crick and it will eat fish and look exactly like the ones in their pictures.

[Daka]

Yeah well, the media is not manipulating it, they are part of the "ignorant public". The manipulation is done by the multi-million dollar eco-environment movement. They do their job well.
X2

does anyone have picture of this "rare animal "???

[finaddict]

The other latest iconic brand name that drives me nuts is the `Salish Sea. The Strait of Georgia is not a Sea. More propaganda b.s.

[Salty]

X2

does anyone have picture of this "rare animal "???

This is a pic that National Geographic names in its top pictures of the year or something like that. And I admit it is a hell of a picture. But its a timber wolf on the central coast not a 'sea wolf' in 'the great bear rainforest'

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/cms/binary/11720737.jpg

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/photographer+shot+wolf+named+national+geographic+f avourites/11720736/story.html

[NorthShoreX]

Are they now off limits to hunt?

[Downtown]

there is no spirit bear

Well, I guess its all about how manyy you had .:grin:

[BgBlkDg]

The entire crew of "Pacific" whatever makes me want to hurl, young, "experts" on BCs very complex section of the planetary biosphere.....HOW, could they have such extensive bush experience, especially the young fembos?

It is all a sleazy con game to avoid having to actually WORK for a living and most of them are as credible as "Saint David" .....

[Jack Russell]

Wide open? If you call a season that lasts few weeks in Oct (if there is an open season at all) before being closed early, wide open, you could write for pacific wild.

You can disagree, but there is a lot of truth in 40 incher's statement. When you question "wide open"?, why is it closed on November 1st? Then ask yourself, why is it even open at all? Have fun arguing with yourself on that one. In the 1980's, that run numbered around 10 000 fish.

[Jack Russell]

This is a pic that National Geographic names in its top pictures of the year or something like that. And I admit it is a hell of a picture. But its a timber wolf on the central coast not a 'sea wolf' in 'the great bear rainforest'

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/cms/binary/11720737.jpg

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/photographer+shot+wolf+named+national+geographic+f avourites/11720736/story.html

Sshh, don't spread that one around to those under the Vancouver "bubble". They'll start to think its an even rarer subspecies of "sea wolf".

[steveo]

The only thing unique about the island wolves of today compared to years ago is that todays wolves have high amounts of dog dna in them.

[steveo]

You can disagree, but there is a lot of truth in 40 incher's statement. When you question "wide open"?, why is it closed on November 1st? Then ask yourself, why is it even open at all? Have fun arguing with yourself on that one. In the 1980's, that run numbered around 10 000 fish.
I guess the question that should be asked is if the sport fishery was closed tomorrow how long would it take to get fish numbers back to 10,000 fish or if the fishery was closed ten years ago would the fish numbers still be at current levels.

[ACB]

Say what???? :shock:
KERMODE! That what they'v always been called until that kid environmentalist coined the phrase "Spirt Bear" just too give them a "nice" TAG like GREAT BEAR RAIN FORREST, SEA WOLF. REALLY All's this giving nice TAG's to things is to try to get people emotionally involved with what ever their cause is at the time. Hell on the Sunshine Coast ( which was given to the coast years ago as a tourism ploy) we now have the CHANTERELLE FORREST! A tag to try to save a portion of forrest from being logged, ALL second growth mind you.Hell for a while we even had TREE FAIRIES in Roberts Creek, Im not kidding. There were people in Roberts Creek that said they saw the TREE FAIRIES living in the trees that were to be logged and the logging had to stop. YA. So please on this site lets please stop using Environmentalist TAGs, There are no SPIRT BEARS they are KERMODE BEARS!

[ACB]

The Thompson River Steelhead are down to where their at because of the DFO's October CHUM salmon gill net fishery years ago. What the whole thing was about was to get the fishermen enough UIC stamps so they could spend the winter in Mexico or where ever, I know a guy that was in on the fishery. One year they wipe out half the Thompson River Steelhead run. The funny and insulting thing is they never made enough to pay for their fuel off the Chums. The guy I know said they had a tank on board to revive Steelhead when they brought them in their gill nets on the Fraser R. I asked him how many lived , he said NONE they had to throw them over board!

[steveo]

The Thompson River Steelhead are down to where their at because of the DFO's October CHUM salmon gill net fishery years ago. What the whole thing was about was to get the fishermen enough UIC stamps so they could spend the winter in Mexico or where ever, I know a guy that was in on the fishery. One year they wipe out half the Thompson River Steelhead run. The funny and insulting thing is they never made enough to pay for their fuel off the Chums. The guy I know said they had a tank on board to revive Steelhead when they brought them in their gill nets on the Fraser R. I asked him how many lived , he said NONE they had to throw them over board!
Very interesting, pretty much what I suspected, no logic in the logic.

[IronNoggin]

... does anyone have picture of this "rare animal "???

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/v/t1.0-9/10593223_10152720665666112_8155756886379771480_n.p ng?oh=1c87bf0bf574cdb2473f7fd68ad3f4d5&oe=575F7F9F

Cheers,
Nog

[finaddict]

Very interesting, pretty much what I suspected, no logic in the logic.While the UIC Chum fishery was true in the 80's and early 90's that is no longer the major impact on these fish. They face a myriad of obstacles on their journey home and all of them are man-made. The biggest impact on their survival? Water extraction for cattle, and residential encroachment in the Bonaparte, deadman and Nicola river valleys. Ask the regional biologist and he will confirm this. Throw in the nets up the Fraser during migration, Commie and Abbie, legal and illegal, and its no surprise why they continue to be on the brink of extinction. I stopped fishing them 10 years ago when their number would not recover from 1000. I just could no longer feel good about beating up on the last 1000 fish let alone the last 400. Thompson Steelhead fate is already sealed and the doom is imminent. It will be the death of not 1000 cuts, but of 1000 wells.

[ACB]

The numbers never recovered after the 80' and 90's and you right there's too many users on the home waters of these Magnificent fish. The river's that are home to these fish should be closed to angling period! And the stream's should be enhanced not only habitat wise but also a small percentage fish hatchery enhancement as long as you can keep the Thompson River Steelhead DNA true and Keep the DFO the FUC* away from the whole operation. But sadly I think your right their demise is written in the sand. But then again the Vedder River Steelhead in the early to mid 70's was down to less than 200 fish according fish counts, but after a total river closure for angling and enhancement the numbers came back to the point that it's the largest put and take fishery for Steelhead in the Province and most man hour's fished in the Province. So you never know what could happen if we got serious about protecting the Thompson River Steelhead. I would like to believe there is a chance!

[40incher]

You can disagree, but there is a lot of truth in 40 incher's statement. When you question "wide open"?, why is it closed on November 1st? Then ask yourself, why is it even open at all? Have fun arguing with yourself on that one. In the 1980's, that run numbered around 10 000 fish.


I guess my previous statement regarding the Thompson steelhead "issue" needs to be clarified in the context it was presented.

The original post that started this thread was about why we are in the situation we are now with supposedly "endangered" species like the sea wolf controlling the path of decision making in B.C.

To be crystal clear, the reason we are in this situation is because we too easily fall into the trap of claiming an animal (like Thompson steelhead) are endangered when they really are not ... especially when the bureaucrats try to defend a targeted "sport fishery" on that same stock when they are almost extinct (according to them). There are false prophets in the anti-use world, like the proponents of the sea wolf, and there are false prophets in the so-called "scientific" world. It's no wonder the general public and the politicians get confused about reality.

I don't believe for a second that the Thompson River stock is down to 400 spawners ... that's a total fabrication, much like the sea wolf diatribe. There is no real science behind the Thompson River steelhead "crisis', just bureaucrats and special interests pushing an agenda based on more than questionable data. A few years ago, when the prophets of which I speak said there were only 700 steelhead in the entire Thompson River, anglers caught 4,700 steelhead (that would be four thousand and seven hundred). No amount of excuses can explain that, even though some try ... but it proves my point.

The danger in pretending something is "endangered", when it is not, is exactly why find ourselves in the predicament today with the sea wolf, grizzly, etc ...

If we continue down this road don't be surprised if we end up on the sidelines asking ... how the hell did we lose our access to hunt and fish!?

[Sangstercraft]

Sea wolf, spirit bear, grizzly bears, mountain gorillas in Africa, etc, .. these are tools used by conservationists to garner support for preserving a large piece of habitat. The terms is "charismatic megafauna".

Most people (looking nationally at the voting population) love these types of animals. But they don't give a crap about a bunch of forest somewhere because most of them live in cities and are disconnected from nature. So how can you prevent a unique and important habitat (say, the old growth overwintering habitat for deer, or the forested catchment basin for an important salmon river) from being clear cut logged, or a copper mine built upstream? Most voters don't give a crap or they don't understand the science.

That's why people who are working to save these landscapes create the concept of the "charismatic megafauna" - to appeal to the hearts of voters. If there's enough support, the politicians will work with the resource extraction firms to modify their approach - like they did with the Great Bear Rainforest.

I've worked in commercial fishing, adventure tourism, I'm a rifle and bow hunter, avid fisherman -- and I sign petitions to stop certain projects that I think are a bad idea (think Taseko mines plan to drain a fish lake and fill it with tailings above the Fraser river headwaters).

It's not so cut and dry / black or white. We all want to enjoy nature, we all want jobs, but the problem is there's now so many frickin stakeholders that these problems are much more complex. It's hard but we're going to have to work together with other groups if we want to keep our right to hunt and fish. Gotta work smart.

[Sangstercraft]

And by the way, the ORIGINAL conservationists were hunters! I always remind non hunters that when the convo gets to talking about hunting or fishing. I show people that by my actions - always respecting the animal, picking up trash in the woods, etc. Just basic stuff.

[Buckmeister]

Wasn't Sea Wolf a TV show in the early 90's about a futuristic submarine?

[40incher]

Sea wolf, spirit bear, grizzly bears, mountain gorillas in Africa, etc, .. these are tools used by conservationists to garner support for preserving a large piece of habitat. The terms is "charismatic megafauna".

Most people (looking nationally at the voting population) love these types of animals. But they don't give a crap about a bunch of forest somewhere because most of them live in cities and are disconnected from nature. So how can you prevent a unique and important habitat (say, the old growth overwintering habitat for deer, or the forested catchment basin for an important salmon river) from being clear cut logged, or a copper mine built upstream? Most voters don't give a crap or they don't understand the science.

That's why people who are working to save these landscapes create the concept of the "charismatic megafauna" - to appeal to the hearts of voters. If there's enough support, the politicians will work with the resource extraction firms to modify their approach - like they did with the Great Bear Rainforest.

I've worked in commercial fishing, adventure tourism, I'm a rifle and bow hunter, avid fisherman -- and I sign petitions to stop certain projects that I think are a bad idea (think Taseko mines plan to drain a fish lake and fill it with tailings above the Fraser river headwaters).

It's not so cut and dry / black or white. We all want to enjoy nature, we all want jobs, but the problem is there's now so many frickin stakeholders that these problems are much more complex. It's hard but we're going to have to work together with other groups if we want to keep our right to hunt and fish. Gotta work smart.


I must agree.

There is a large difference between "conservation" and "preservation" however.

The danger lies with those who think that false prophecy is the way to go ... the end justifies the means!

We all know the moral of the story regarding the little boy crying wolf ... or in this case "sea wolf".