Dease Lake Fly Outs

[IronNoggin]

Planning a trip this fall.
In search of pilot and float-plane based out of Dease Lake.

Hoping for a few recommendations Folks!!

Cheers & Thanks!
Nog

[markomoose]

Whatya hunting?

[two-feet]

Only one company flying off the lake so.... I (half heartedly) recomend bcyukon air

[hunter fisher]

Had a good experience with bc Yukon last year and would fly with them again. Be prepared the fly out a couple days late and the same possibilty upon return due to inclement weather. Flying from muncho is another option too

[Everett]

Go to Watson and fly with Northern rockies to notch outfit

[Deadshot]

Great question!
Just who IS flying out of Dease these days?
Are they all outfitter affiliated?
I know a few guys that have inquired about certain lakes & been told that, they (the lakes), are too busy.
These were very accessible & not so busy lakes in recent years.

[Bear Brawler]

I've had good experience flying with BC Yukon air and have a deposit in for this years sheep hunt. But have thought of other options to try different spots. See if I draw the early sheep draw, it will be my major factor where I go.

[butcher]

Bc Yukon. Billy ostereich. 771-3232. $10/mile.

is he outfitter affiliated? Yep.

[goinghunting]

Bc yukon,

They are good to fly with but run bradfords area so arent real keen on dropping you anywhere in there. If you want in there go to watson lake to fly.

[BiG Boar]

Things have changed last year for BC Yukon air. It used to be private and they would take you most anywhere that didn't have hunters. In the last couple years it has become owned by the outfitter. Heard he isn't flying into the same lakes you used to be able to get into. I would be cautious going in without a plan B and C for lakes in case that lake has an outfitter on it at the time. Heard some troubling news from some of last years clients. Might look at flying out of Tatoga.

[604redneck]

Tatogga is good

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Like Big Boar said, things have changed at Dease. Expect further tightening in the coming years.

[375shooter]

Great question!
Just who IS flying out of Dease these days?
Are they all outfitter affiliated?
I know a few guys that have inquired about certain lakes & been told that, they (the lakes), are too busy.
These were very accessible & not so busy lakes in recent years.

What are the names of some of these lakes? Maybe I'll go there and piss off the outfitters.:grin: They have too much of our allocations, after all.:mad:

[IronNoggin]

Thanks Folks.
As it turns out those who suggested Yukon Air is the only game in town for Dease are correct.
Other options exist, such as Black Sheep Aviation over in Watson Lake.
A tad further to where we want to be from Watson, but a much wider array of available aircraft.
Guess it will boil down to rates...

Doesn't matter to our Crew whether the pilot is affiliated with an outfitter or not.
As long as he is experienced and will take us where we want to be, it's All Good.
Just a ride after all...

Cheers,
Nog

[Rackmastr]

Doesn't matter to our Crew whether the pilot is affiliated with an outfitter or not.
As long as he is experienced and will take us where we want to be, it's All Good.
Just a ride after all...


The part that WILL matter (I'd imagine) is when you book a lake, pay a deposit and confirm it, then several months later the pilot makes up an excuse about not being able to fly into said lake for very random and non-supported reasons, and you end up doing a bunch of juggling of those plans to find a NEW lake that's not one that conflicts with outfitting or FN agreements, etc.

It has happened, as has lake changes while clients were on the drive up from the LML.

Big Boars post sums it up. Just be cautious in your approach is all I'd advise.

A few of the options:

BC Yukon at Dease
Rick at Tsaytsa (Telegraph)
Tattogga
Watson Lake

[Rackmastr]

I will add, I flew with BC Yukon this year and flew in and out on the dates I requested, with a pilot who was very good and very easy to deal with. We had an amazing trip and came home with 3 caribou, a moose, a grizz and a wolverine. The flight was actually a bit cheaper than I had originally planned as well, and overall they were great to deal with once we got up there.

It was an adventure and a half. But there ARE a few issues to be aware of when booking and knowing the who's and whats of whats happening up there.

[Avalanche123]

BC Yukon Air runs a good operation. Billy is an A+ guy. Depending on where you want to fly to, flying from Watson may be considerably more expensive.

[bighornbob]

BC Yukon Air runs a good operation. Billy is an A+ guy. Depending on where you want to fly to, flying from Watson may be considerably more expensive.

I would bet money they wont fly into any good sheep lakes or other lakes that have paying hunters there. They might fly you into a moose lake in august but not in september.

The bradfords were always protective of their area and now that they fly too I would be hesitant booking with them, regardless of Billy being a good guy.

BHB

[yama49]

Another option out of watson, flew with them 2 years ago, outfitter owned but will fly you wherever, even in his area. was 8 per mile 2 years ago.
Northern Rockies Air Charter Ltd

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I would bet money they wont fly into any good sheep lakes or other lakes that have paying hunters there. They might fly you into a moose lake in august but not in september.

The bradfords were always protective of their area and now that they fly too I would be hesitant booking with them, regardless of Billy being a good guy.

BHB

Bingo. They didn't buy Bruce's business to get the plane or dock as they already had planes and a dock right next door. They bought it to have complete control over where people fly.

[goinghunting]

On the plus side if your willing to make the extra drive to watson, bradfords area is gonna get even better as Billy deflects the hunting pressure. Might be the place to be

[one-shot-wonder]

Another option out of watson, flew with them 2 years ago, outfitter owned but will fly you wherever, even in his area. was 8 per mile 2 years ago.
Northern Rockies Air Charter Ltd

Will NOT fly you wherever! Same as mentioned above from other charters. GO and FN agreements come first, booked and depositted residents get the Plan B and C treatment.

[BiG Boar]

Bingo. They didn't buy Bruce's business to get the plane or dock as they already had planes and a dock right next door. They bought it to have complete control over where people fly.

Also, they are able to raise rates, which they did, now that they're the only game in town. Fuel surcharge fees won't be going away I'm guessing, even though they are at a new low in a long time.

[BEAVERBRUCE]

Bingo. They didn't buy Bruce's business to get the plane or dock as they already had planes and a dock right next door. They bought it to have complete control over where people fly.

x2..........

[hunter fisher]

we had a long chat with billy after our hunt last year, he is a GO for a lot of territory around dease but will still fly you in to any of his lakes. he told us that if he flys you in he's happier because he knows who you are, when your going there, and what you harvest. as opposed to flying in from watson or muncho with Urs or another pilot, when all of the sudden he shows up with a client and theres 3 resident camps he didn't know about. he was very classy and came across as sincere

[bearvalley]

Bingo. They didn't buy Bruce's business to get the plane or dock as they already had planes and a dock right next door. They bought it to have complete control over where people fly.
Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the reason Billy spreads out fly ins, is because he actually cares.
About the wildlife and the quality of the hunters trip.
Theres a lot of BS on here, coming from some that hardly or do not know the man.

As for some of the other flyers mentioned, they're like whores...they'll take on whoever pays.

[yama49]

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the reason Billy spreads out fly ins, is because he actually cares.
About the wildlife and the quality of the hunters trip.
Theres a lot of BS on here, coming from some that hardly or do not know the man.

As for some of the other flyers mentioned, they're like whores...they'll take on whoever pays.

Last time i checked its my money, should b able to fly where i want? If theres other people there so b it. If you think your not going run into other hunters in bc, you might as we'll stay home. Wont comment on the billy, because i don't know him. JMo

[Rackmastr]

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the reason Billy spreads out fly ins, is because he actually cares.
About the wildlife and the quality of the hunters trip.
Theres a lot of BS on here, coming from some that hardly or do not know the man.

As for some of the other flyers mentioned, they're like whores...they'll take on whoever pays.

I will say that I actually really enjoy booking at a lake and knowing that BC Yukon wont flood other hunters in on a lake. No doubt, that was one part I was quite happy about when dealing with them this year. I don't want to book with Urs and have him drop 5 other groups off on the same lake unless I knew that was the case. BC Yukon was good by managing that and not allowing groups to 'double book' lakes, etc.

I had issues with some bookings/changes but in the end it all worked out. I wasn't overly happy at the time as I had booked in December and done my planning/intel/etc and was left to find another option, amend a PTA for a friend, and change plans considerably. In the end though, we were still in awesome country and had an amazing experience and flew with a great pilot.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

x2..........


Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the reason Billy spreads out fly ins, is because he actually cares.
About the wildlife and the quality of the hunters trip.
Theres a lot of BS on here, coming from some that hardly or do not know the man.

As for some of the other flyers mentioned, they're like whores...they'll take on whoever pays.

see above quote and consider the source

[bearvalley]

see above quote and consider the source
Maybe Bruce doesn't really want to go there, Brent.

[BiG Boar]

Hey, business is business. I would do the same if I were in his shoes. Its all about the dollar, and keeping your paying clients as happy as possible.

[358mag]

Hey, business is business. I would do the same if I were in his shoes. Its all about the dollar, and keeping your paying clients as happy as possible.
Think they call it Free Enterprise . Good on him .
If you don't like what he's doing go out and buy a Beaver on floats .

[tangozulu]

If a pilot will take my money and fly me when and where i want to go is a whore, bring it on. Thats being a Profesional. He is welcome to try to change my mind with a better suggestion but this whore is not playing the games far too many outfitts do.
Booking a lake? What county do you live in?

[Sharpish]

If a pilot will take my money and fly me when and where i want to go is a whore, bring it on. Thats being a Profesional. He is welcome to try to change my mind with a better suggestion but this whore is not playing the games far too many outfitts do.
Booking a lake? What county do you live in?


I've flown out of dease a few times, it was way better when Bruce was the owner (even better when he was the pilot, he would pick you up on time on a day with 60mph headwinds and driving rain, and porpoise the plane off the lake when we all knew we were 400lbs overweight). But even Bruce had a "one party, one lake" policy. Some lakes can handle two parties, one at either end, but most are small and with two groups it would be incredibly irritating. (Especially if you factor in the GO having a party there too, and buzzing the mountain tops with his beaver looking for sheep.)

The situation there is crappier now with the GO owning the entire shebang, many aspects of it are irritating. The customer service is poorer for sure. But "one party one lake" is brilliant. Just get your deposit in asap in the spring and you will have only the GO to compete with, and if you choose your dates wisely he won't even be there. He wants early season sheep and caribou with no velvet. So plan tour trip between those events.

[Apolonius]

I thought i was going to stay away a while....but.
Seeing this "debate"...oh well.
BV spoke as a true Guide Outfitter.
But to call Urs and anyone that flies a Resident hunter ,to the place of the RHs choice....a whore????
That is pretty low,not unexpected though.
You guys here,DO never believe a guide is doing you a favour,by delays or the lake of "HIS" choice.
Urs is on of the best pilots and guys i met flying.
The guy that got the 43" ram last year ,was there because he went with.... BVs words ,a whore landed him there.
Bradford or any guide for that matter would love to see that ram going SOUTH!!!
So you as RHs ,support ...the whores.
After all we are all whores.....getting paid for what we do.
No guide good or bad ,is looking after your interests!!!!!
Need a drink now....i was pissed off.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Think they call it Free Enterprise . Good on him .
If you don't like what he's doing go out and buy a Beaver on floats .

Pretty reasonable lease rates from Viking.

[358mag]

Pretty reasonable lease rates from Viking.
Just need a pilot then , you know of any ?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Just need a pilot then , you know of any ?

Can't think of 'the right one' at the moment. Need someone who retired early and wants to go back to work for a few months a year.

[bearvalley]

I thought i was going to stay away a while....but.
Seeing this "debate"...oh well.
BV spoke as a true Guide Outfitter.
But to call Urs and anyone that flies a Resident hunter ,to the place of the RHs choice....a whore????
That is pretty low,not unexpected though.
You guys here,DO never believe a guide is doing you a favour,by delays or the lake of "HIS" choice.
Urs is on of the best pilots and guys i met flying.
The guy that got the 43" ram last year ,was there because he went with.... BVs words ,a whore landed him there.
Bradford or any guide for that matter would love to see that ram going SOUTH!!!
So you as RHs ,support ...the whores.
After all we are all whores.....getting paid for what we do.
No guide good or bad ,is looking after your interests!!!!!
Need a drink now....i was pissed off.

If you like going and competing with 15 to 20 guys all on the same pot hole lake, the majority dumped there by the same flying service....fly at it.
All a guy providing that kind of service is doing is running a taxi...and he's 100% legal.
Hes sure doing no justice to you or the wildlife in the area.
Not my idea of a quality hunting experience, but maybe it's yours.

[Apolonius]

Flying with Urs for many years.
Never once had 20 guys...maybe lucky???.
Bottom line you choose your lake and your time.
Urs always tells me if there are people there,before or after me.
He suggests times ,as he knows what the bookings look like.
But he never tells me ,he will not land on this or that lake.
And he has no control ,what other pilots do on that lake.
Luck of the draw.And no one can expect to have his little private paradise,just because he is flying in.
I will always support Urs....flying in this year too!!!!

[IronNoggin]

... Urs ???

Huh?

Wondering...
Nog

[BiG Boar]

Only problem with Urs is he is like $12 a mile, bruce was $8 for a long time. The new guy on Dease is $10. Don't like it, don't fly in.

[RiverOtter]

I thought i was going to stay away a while....but.
Seeing this "debate"...oh well.
BV spoke as a true Guide Outfitter.
But to call Urs and anyone that flies a Resident hunter ,to the place of the RHs choice....a whore????
That is pretty low,not unexpected though.
You guys here,DO never believe a guide is doing you a favour,by delays or the lake of "HIS" choice.
Urs is on of the best pilots and guys i met flying.
The guy that got the 43" ram last year ,was there because he went with.... BVs words ,a whore landed him there.
Bradford or any guide for that matter would love to see that ram going SOUTH!!!
So you as RHs ,support ...the whores.
After all we are all whores.....getting paid for what we do.
No guide good or bad ,is looking after your interests!!!!!
Need a drink now....i was pissed off.

No complaints with Urs' pilot skills, but when you book a flight to Lake X and specifically ask if he's flyinq anyone else there and he says NO, then 2 other parties are flown in within the same week, it is a huge piss off. If a mans word is no good.....

To be fair, it wasn't him personally who flew the other parties in, but it was his plane and pilot....so he was obviously in the know. :roll:

[Sitkaspruce]

Sure glad we didn't have these problems back in the 80/90/early 2000 for flying into a lake. Haven't been in 12 years now, so it looks like things have become more of a "I was here first" scenario and there is only one sheep/goat/moose to hunt......

We just picked a lake, found a pilot and flew to it. If there were others (sometimes there was, sometimes there wasn't), we just got off the lake and hunted. Never worried about others, no different than hunting elk, moose or deer.

Some folks worry more about others being there than just getting there and going hunting. Lots of animals to go around, most are not standing on the lake shore........

After all, it is the adventure that counts, getting an animal is the bonus!!!

As to Nogs question, Tsayta Air is one who I have known for a while, used to be just based out FSJames, and flying out of Black Lake but is now covering the North.

Good luck in your quest Matt!!

Cheers

SS

[Apolonius]

Huh?

Wondering...
Nog
The owner of the resort at Muncho lake.

[Apolonius]

Truth is i have only used his service,for quiet a few years.Some times we got game, sometimes not.As for expensive ,i can't tell.
But like Sitka spruce says,there is lots of land up there.
It can be crowded anywhere,it is up to you to deal with it.
Like i said before,lots of people with lots of money=crowded situations.
Urs was always truthful to me.I don't think i am the exception.
But i also should mention,i heard lots of good things about Bruce.Never met him.
Good things about Tsayta too.
Pick a lake and do your homework,do your research.

[358mag]

Can't think of 'the right one' at the moment. Need someone who retired early and wants to go back to work for a few months a year.

Me neither at the moment , but let me make a few phone calls in the am . There is a diaper changer up country that might need some extra work .....:roll::roll:

[RiverOtter]

Sure glad we didn't have these problems back in the 80/90/early 2000 for flying into a lake. Haven't been in 12 years now, so it looks like things have become more of a "I was here first" scenario and there is only one sheep/goat/moose to hunt......

We just picked a lake, found a pilot and flew to it. If there were others (sometimes there was, sometimes there wasn't), we just got off the lake and hunted. Never worried about others, no different than hunting elk, moose or deer.

Some folks worry more about others being there than just getting there and going hunting. Lots of animals to go around, most are not standing on the lake shore........

After all, it is the adventure that counts, getting an animal is the bonus!!!

As to Nogs question, Tsayta Air is one who I have known for a while, used to be just based out FSJames, and flying out of Black Lake but is now covering the North.

Good luck in your quest Matt!!

Cheers

SS
That's all you garnered out of the above posts...?

If other hunters end up where I'm hunting by coincidence, so be it, I'll just hike further. When I pay good money to be flown to a remote area and specifically confirm I'm the only one getting dropped there, then others get dropped there shortly after by the SAME pilot, there's problem.

[Sharpish]

It's big country but sometimes you have to cover tons of ground to get an animal. And some lakes have one or two good sites to camp by the lakeshore. It's still possible to get skunked on a 10 day trip with just one party of 2 or 3 guys. It's not like the entire landscape is crawling with big game. if you pay big money to fly into a lake that's a kilometre long and someone is setup in the cove you always camp in, and you've got 3 groups of guys spotting from the lakeshore and racing toward every caribou or goat on the side of the mountain. That's frustrating. You drive 26 hours and spend $2000 on flights to get far away from people, where there is still game to be had. Otherwise you might as well cut the drive time by 14 hours and join the atv gong show everywhere else in the province.

[yama49]

[QUOTE=Sharpish;1752403]It's big country but sometimes you have to cover tons of ground to get an animal. And some lakes have one or two good sites to camp by the lakeshore. It's still possible to get skunked on a 10 day trip with just one party of 2 or 3 guys. It's not like the entire landscape is crawling with big game. if you pay big money to fly into a lake that's a kilometre long and someone is setup in the cove you always camp in, and you've got 3 groups of guys spotting from the lakeshore and racing toward every caribou or goat on the side of the mountain. That's frustrating. You drive 26 hours and spend $2000 on flights to get far away from people, where there is still game to be had. Otherwise you might as well cut the drive time by 14 hours and join the atv gong show everywhere else in the province.[/QUOTE

So do you own the land, Cause you booked first?

[Sharpish]

[QUOTE=Sharpish;1752403]It's big country but sometimes you have to cover tons of ground to get an animal. And some lakes have one or two good sites to camp by the lakeshore. It's still possible to get skunked on a 10 day trip with just one party of 2 or 3 guys. It's not like the entire landscape is crawling with big game. if you pay big money to fly into a lake that's a kilometre long and someone is setup in the cove you always camp in, and you've got 3 groups of guys spotting from the lakeshore and racing toward every caribou or goat on the side of the mountain. That's frustrating. You drive 26 hours and spend $2000 on flights to get far away from people, where there is still game to be had. Otherwise you might as well cut the drive time by 14 hours and join the atv gong show everywhere else in the province.[/QUOTE

So do you own the land, Cause you booked first?

Of course not. But one lake one party is a good policy. You can fly yourself in the same day one party leaves after a week. They aren't booking the lake for the entire hunting season. And there are PLENTY of lakes to choose from. Just pick your lake, pick your week, and book the flight first.


if you are on a lake, all set up, and beavers start splashing down every day for a week afterwards you would be pissed.

Plus its good for the animals. Getting swarmed with guys pressuring the hell out of a lake means lots of animals getting taken out, lots getting stressed or wounded, and if enough pressure removes enough animals you get an LEH situation.

[yama49]

[QUOTE=yama49;1752407]

Of course not. But one lake one party is a good policy. You can fly yourself in the same day one party leaves after a week. They aren't booking the lake for the entire hunting season. And there are PLENTY of lakes to choose from. Just pick your lake, pick your week, and book the flight first.


if you are on a lake, all set up, and beavers start splashing down every day for a week afterwards you would be pissed.

Plus its good for the animals. Getting swarmed with guys pressuring the hell out of a lake means lots of animals getting taken out, lots getting stressed or wounded, and if enough pressure removes enough animals you get an LEH situation.

I agree it might suck seeing other people, but if they tell you there is other camps at the lake, i don't think you should be refused service.. What if your hunting moose near the lake, and i wanna backpack 20 km for sheep?? And i disagree on more animals being taken, usually means less taken,because its a gong show. JMO

[elknut]

I used to fly out of Dease lake with Ray Sande and he told me some lakes were off bounds cause there already was guys there..Flew into Tuya and there was 2 other camps...4 guys in one and 4 in the other ...We all got moose and had a hell of a time ...There are lots of lakes west and east and north of Dease lake ..The further you go the more money ...Some great moose hunting was very close..When Bruce was out of service due to a broken leg we flew with Northern air for a sheep hunt out west ..Only people at our lake was the guide outfitter that flew in about and hour or so after we landed..We never got our sheep but seen lots of short horned rams ..Some lakes can handle a few outfits and others only one ..This area of BC has been hunted for many ..many years and it will continue to be a logjam ...Do your homework and you might find there still is a place to hunt ...it just costs more..

[tangozulu]

[QUOTE=yama49;1752407] Of course not. But one lake one party is a good policy. You can fly yourself in the same day one party leaves after a week. They aren't booking the lake for the entire hunting season. And there are PLENTY of lakes to choose from. Just pick your lake, pick your week, and book the flight first. if you are on a lake, all set up, and beavers start splashing down every day for a week afterwards you would be pissed. Plus its good for the animals. Getting swarmed with guys pressuring the hell out of a lake means lots of animals getting taken out, lots getting stressed or wounded, and if enough pressure removes enough animals you get an LEH situation. I know the west side of Dease pretty well, all the wat to Atlin. For a sheep hunter there are not an unlimited amounts of lakes in close proximity to good sheep country. Just because some outfitter tells his client no resident hunters arent around doesnt means im going somewhere else. If the area is good the outfitter will have a cabin close by and be there most of the season anyways.

[RiverOtter]

If you're "OK" paying a bunch of money to a pilot to get away from other hunters, and he assures you he is NOT flying any other parties in during your time slot, but then does so anyway, I guess you don't expect much from a mans word.

I don't expect ownership of any wilderness area, I just expect a man to honour his word. If he wants to allow several parties on the same small lake at the same time, simply let me know and I'll pick another spot, pretty fricken simple concept. As I said before, if another party(s) are there coincidentally via another charter, so be it, just not by the guy I'm paying who assured me I was the only one he was flying there in that time slot.

[two-feet]

Went on my first fly trip this year, out of dease with bcyukon, and it was an eye opening experience.

I could not beleive the amount of people hunting out there, it did not feel as remote and devoid of people as i had imagined. We were the second party on our lake (first party flown in by the charter out of telegraph) and every lake around us had one or more party. Planes over head constantly, gun shots in the distance.

Dont get me wrong, great trip, super experience and we got a moose. Just different than i had pictured in the months of daydreaming leading up to the adventure.

Would i go again? You bet, but not for a few years. I can hike a km off any road in the north and be 99% sure i will be alone.

Just some info for those planning their first trip

[BEAVERBRUCE]

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the reason Billy spreads out fly ins, is because he actually cares.
About the wildlife and the quality of the hunters trip.
Theres a lot of BS on here, coming from some that hardly or do not know the man.

As for some of the other flyers mentioned, they're like whores...they'll take on whoever pays.
you sound like an outfitter or is it a whore

[BEAVERBRUCE]

Can't think of 'the right one' at the moment. Need someone who retired early and wants to go back to work for a few months a year.

do you have a plane?

[hntcrazy]

Need more than a plane need "OC" and maintenance facility ....ops people etc.
The plane and pilot are easy ...........

[Stone Sheep Steve]

do you have a plane?

Getting bored in retirement? Maybe us residents should get organized and lease one for you.

[blackbart]

Stone Sheep Steve is onto something with his last post. Think about it.

[WKCotts]

........x2

[BiG Boar]

I'm in also.

[BiG Boar]

What if we had 30 guys to split the plane with a hired pilot? What would that cost each per year?

[guest]

I'm very interested in this also ........

[todbartell]

What if we had 30 guys to split the plane with a hired pilot? What would that cost each per year?

let's all go to the same lake :mrgreen:

[bearvalley]

you sound like an outfitter or is it a whore
Well Bruce, I don't think I'm a whore... but whatever.
Seems you're running true to form, sad to see you gotta go out of your way to bad mouth the guy that bought you out. I actually thought you, Billy and Keith before him had some kind of a special relationship going....especially the way you left them in charge of being....should I say caretakers for you. Or did you forget you left your mom in the corner of the shed when you moved out. She was inside the shop door, to the left on the shelf last fall. Everyone's made sure she didn't go in the garbage.
Now do you want to discuss the ethics of outfitters and whores...?

[BiG Boar]

let's all go to the same lake :mrgreen:

I'm saying we lease a plane and go where ever we want for a lot cheaper.

[tangozulu]

Went on my first fly trip this year, out of dease with bcyukon, and it was an eye opening experience.

I could not beleive the amount of people hunting out there, it did not feel as remote and devoid of people as i had imagined. We were the second party on our lake (first party flown in by the charter out of telegraph) and every lake around us had one or more party. Planes over head constantly, gun shots in the distance.

Dont get me wrong, great trip, super experience and we got a moose. Just different than i had pictured in the months of daydreaming leading up to the adventure.

Would i go again? You bet, but not for a few years. I can hike a km off any road in the north and be 99% sure i will be alone.

Just some info for those planning their first trip


Hey ur lucky. Some outfitters in tthat area even fly in otters from Alaska.

[Gateholio]

Well Bruce, I don't think I'm a whore... but whatever.
Seems you're running true to form, sad to see you gotta go out of your way to bad mouth the guy that bought you out.

I didn't see him badmouth anyone, just agree with why his business was purchased. As Big Boar stated, it was obviously a business decision to control access. No point in trying to pretend it was anything else.

The rest of the stuff you posted is just personal crap....You know- bad mouthing.

[Gateholio]

Getting bored in retirement? Maybe us residents should get organized and lease one for you.

Great plan! And could literally go anywhere, as no "transporter" tenure required.

[bearvalley]

Gatehouse, we can go back a couple of years and review some of his posts and then judge who bad mouths.
What I posted was damn mild to what it could have been.
There were a bunch of resident hunters flown off that dock the last couple of years, by BC Yukon.
You and Bruce tell me who's been denied access?
Billy has a greater appreciation for wildlife and a hell of a lot better understanding of the wildlife issues in the area than most "bush pilots".
I would think that anyone that calls himself a hunter would support that mentality.
It seems to me that the short sited ones can only see for themselves, that goes for pushing to shoot the last moose or dumping 20 hunters on a pot hole lake.
How much time have you spent in the mountains in the north, I'm really curious？

[Gateholio]

Gatehouse, we can go back a couple of years and review some of his posts and then judge who bad mouths.
What I posted was damn mild to what it could have been.
There were a bunch of resident hunters flown off that dock the last couple of years, by BC Yukon.
You and Bruce tell me who's been denied access?
Billy has a greater appreciation for wildlife and a hell of a lot better understanding of the wildlife issues in the area than most "bush pilots".
I would think that anyone that calls himself a hunter would support that mentality.
It seems to me that the short sited ones can only see for themselves, that goes for pushing to shoot the last moose or dumping 20 hunters on a pot hole lake.
How much time have you spent in the mountains in the north, I'm really curious？


I said control access, not deny it. It's business, and we all understand that. I don't begrudge them for it, it's a smart move. Can you honestly say that the reason they bought the business had nothing to with controlling who goes where?

You have already stated that he does do just that, and that it's a good thing in your opinion, so how can you say it's bad mouthing when it's just the way it is?

[Apolonius]

If it is done in a suggestive way,by the pilot,it is good.
Like "go to this lake the one you chose is crowded"and it is honest.
If it is done to "control" access or deny,then is not.
But as a hunter you made your choice and all research for a reason.
I am not a moose hunter ,i fly in for sheep,haven't seen lots of crowds.
Moose or Caribou,i would be concerned more,as it is done closer to the lakes.
But nothing else counts,only success.
Look and see where 8 of the best Sheep were taken last year.....and transported ,by whom .

[Surreyslam]

BC Yukon is excellent and will fly you into his and other outfitter areas without prejudice. Professional and safety orientated. They do not take chance on weather. I would recommend without hesitation.

[tangozulu]

Good to hear, no chance Ray or Earnie Sandy would have taken u into Bradford country back when they owned BC Yukon. Back then it was Delzell and Bradford was a guide.

[bearvalley]

I said control access, not deny it. It's business, and we all understand that. I don't begrudge them for it, it's a smart move. Can you honestly say that the reason they bought the business had nothing to with controlling who goes where?

You have already stated that he does do just that, and that it's a good thing in your opinion, so how can you say it's bad mouthing when it's just the way it is?

Gatehouse, you're probably king of the Pemberton rifle range and on top here....as to what goes on in Dease...the who's, what's and whys....you're on the sidelines.
The gossip put forth on here is just that....gossip or I should call it social media bad mouthing.
But that's what it's all about, isn't it?

[boxhitch]

But nothing else counts,only success.
Look and see where 8 of the best Sheep were taken last year.....and transported ,by whom .If that info was available it would sure cause a rush for bookings

[boxhitch]

So I get it that there are actually charter pilots that think they can manage wildlife by restricting access for a few resident hunters ?
That by not over-booking flights into a particular spot they can somehow actually have influence on the game populations ?
Never heard of a hunter being told that story up front at the time of booking.
Legal rams and legal moose are developed every year , how can anyone suggest that there may or may not be any left at a particular spot due to hunting?
Stacking hunters in a spot may affect the take that year and may affect some picture of an ideal hunt but nothing more.

[Sharpish]

I think it's more about the client experience than 'managing wildlife.' If someone pays a lot of money to get into a lake, and then the same outfit flies in a bunch more parties the same week, there are going to be a bunch of pissed off hunters that won't ever use their charter service again.

There is undoubtedly a conflict of interest in Dease Lake these days. But it's capitalism, it sucks but they have every right to do whatever they want with their planes and pilots. It totally sucks because the outfitters will eventually have a stranglehold on the charter business.

The tension up there was palpable last time I was up there. The outfitter wants to keep planes flying all day because each flight is thousands in his pocket. But you have to bet there are some backroom phone conversations going on about who is going where. It feels greasy. Some lakes got "too dangerous" to fly into all of a sudden, and the outfitter is wheeling around spotting animals for his clients. They have a huge edge.

I will say that last time, we drove 26 hours, and when we got there at the agreed upon time for our flight, we were informed that we would have to wait many hours, because they had to fly food in for the outfitters horses, and then fly 2 of the outfitters parties into outfitter cabins, and pick up another outfitter party at another cabin to bring them to another lake because they hadn't seen any sheep. Needless to say I was exhausted and annoyed, the six hours we spent waiting I would have rather spent taking a couple short naps on the drive up. While we waited we were regaled with stories about how BCYukon left a couple hunters at a lake for 2 extra days because to pick them up they would have to fight a stiff crosswind and burn up a bunch of extra gas. I didn't like hearing that at all.

BUT, the last day of our hunt, we were packed up and waiting on the lakeshore, cold and miserable and exhausted while being rained on, thinking there was no way Keith was going to pick us up in this shitty weather, but the sound of the Beaver echoing down the valley almost brought a tear to my eye. He was cruising at 80 knots on the way to pick us up and we did 140 the whole way home, so he got a good tip for that.

[bearvalley]

So I get it that there are actually charter pilots that think they can manage wildlife by restricting access for a few resident hunters ?
That by not over-booking flights into a particular spot they can somehow actually have influence on the game populations ?
Never heard of a hunter being told that story up front at the time of booking.
Legal rams and legal moose are developed every year , how can anyone suggest that there may or may not be any left at a particular spot due to hunting?
Stacking hunters in a spot may affect the take that year and may affect some picture of an ideal hunt but nothing more.

I'm glad to see you're of the typical mentality of shoot it all and move on. LMAO
Thats exactly what's gone on in BC for years, screw it up and move on. The good part is that some can see past the "it's my right" thinking.
Hows the hunting oppurtunities in your backyard.....?
The bottom line is, we can not have sustainable wildlife and maintain an access free for all.
The combination doesn't work and it's been proven.

[Gateholio]

Gatehouse, you're probably king of the Pemberton rifle range and on top here....as to what goes on in Dease...the who's, what's and whys....you're on the sidelines.
The gossip put forth on here is just that....gossip or I should call it social media bad mouthing.
But that's what it's all about, isn't it?

I'm just going by what you actually said. Or did you not say that he is spreading hunters out? (Another term for controlling access?)

[Gateholio]

The bottom line is, we can not have sustainable wildlife and maintain an access free for all.
The combination doesn't work and it's been proven.

You are against free access to wherever someone wants to hunt on public land?

You have interesting ideas. Please tell us more.

[Avalanche123]

BC Yukon is excellent and will fly you into his and other outfitter areas without prejudice. Professional and safety orientated. They do not take chance on weather. I would recommend without hesitation.

IMHO it seems a lot of people forget that key point.. "take a chance on weather". From my experience the best outfits go get clients when weather dictates, meaning some wait longer than expected. For what it is worth, I remember sitting and waiting for 2.5 days to be flown in by Bruce and that was 15 yrs ago. This past year I had to wait 2 days but the weather was terrible and they were backed up. It made sense to get the clients where the weather dictated. Some waited longer, some got out on schedule. Bottom line is it isn't Air Canada and yep you may have to wait.

[yama49]

I'm glad to see you're of the typical mentality of shoot it all and move on. LMAO
Thats exactly what's gone on in BC for years, screw it up and move on. The good part is that some can see past the "it's my right" thinking.
Hows the hunting oppurtunities in your backyard.....?
The bottom line is, we can not have sustainable wildlife and maintain an access free for all.
The combination doesn't work and it's been proven.

Then quit outfitting, simple solution..... I want to know how you outfitters, think your the wildlife saviours????? I agree they spent the money, they can fly who they want, and when, but quit giving BS reasons.

[boxhitch]

I'm glad to see you're of the typical mentality of shoot it all and move on. LMAO
Thats exactly what's gone on in BC for years, screw it up and move on. The good part is that some can see past the "it's my right" thinking.
Hows the hunting oppurtunities in your backyard.....?
The bottom line is, we can not have sustainable wildlife and maintain an access free for all.
The combination doesn't work and it's been proven.Again , you missed the point , or are deflecting on purpose , just more smoke while you're always lol or lyao.

[Apolonius]

Again , you missed the point , or are deflecting on purpose , just more smoke while you're always lol or lyao.
^^^^^LMAO...all the way to the can...ha ha

[bearvalley]

Ok boys, the floors open.
Let's hear some of your ideas on how you would go about helping to maintain a sustainable moose, caribou or sheep population in a region of the north.
At the same time you want to keep your resident recreational, fly in hunting clients happy, so they come back year after year.
Let's throw out some boundaries, go with the Stikine River to the south, Yukon border to the north, Kechika to the east.
Lets hear the long term plan, the one that will make sure their are moose, caribou or sheep there for your kids and grandkids.

The northward migration of recreational hunters is taking its toll, and it shows, so how are we going to fix it.
Driving 1500 km, jumping in a float plane to go in and hammer every legal thing you see, just because "legal rams and legal moose are developed every year" is a pretty poor mindset.

There's a lot of BC where damn little of any game is being developed yearly, let alone anything legal.
I would say the owner of BC Yukon has a mindset that is far ahead of most of the posters on this forum when it comes to the well being of wildlife, and not just because he's an outfitter.

As to the flying abilities of BC Yukons pilots, they're top notch. If you have to wait at the base dock or wilderness lake for 2 hours or 2 days because of shit weather, any man with a brain would be damn glad that pilot was smart enough to wait for a break.
2 hours on a lakeshore isn't very long compared to eternity in a grave.

[bearvalley]

Again , you missed the point , or are deflecting on purpose , just more smoke while you're always lol or lyao.
Spell out your point in black & white.

[bearvalley]

^^^^^LMAO...all the way to the can...ha ha

Youre a bright one.
Why don't you take the first kick at throwing out some solutions.
Or are you in the can!

[Buck]

Spell out your point in black & white.

This post just reeks of the guide outfitter sense of entitlement in BC .You have a problem with residents hunting legal rams ? (Horn curl)Hunting any legal species?(antler restrictions) you know damn well you just want to keep residents out so you guide outfitters can pimp out a so called quality hunting experience to foreigners. More smoke and mirrors by the GOABC .

[604redneck]

If you aren't happy with the way it works for you buy a plane and fly yourself. It's pretty simple.

[bearvalley]

You are against free access to wherever someone wants to hunt on public land?

You have interesting ideas. Please tell us more.

I am not against free access to all on public land. Maybe you should know me before you pass off BS statements.
Some access does need to be limited and controlled.
We can't carry on having a free for all, grab and run sale and expect to have big game in huntable numbers.

Gatehouse, let's hear you're ideas on sustainable wildlife and hunting oppurtunities, for now and in the future.
Do you have any?

Just because you're the mod, and have the "power" to ban who you don't want to hear, doesn't mean that you or what you are pushing is the right way to go.

The old line of I'm a BC resident and have the right to my legal share of wildlife isn't working.

Wouldnt you rather spend your money and fly into a lake and actually have the game available to get an honest chance of filling a tag.
Or would you rather watch 20 guys run up the mountain ahead of you, in pursuit of the last legal ram.

It wouldn't be much fun watching your "oppurtunity" go over the skyline, would it?

[bearvalley]

This post just reeks of the guide outfitter sense of entitlement in BC .You have a problem with residents hunting legal rams ? (Horn curl)Hunting any legal species?(antler restrictions) you know damn well you just want to keep residents out so you guide outfitters can pimp out a so called quality hunting experience to foreigners. More smoke and mirrors by the GOABC .

Have I said that.
Youre a bright one as well, but at least you're consistent.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Ok boys, the floors open.
Let's hear some of your ideas on how you would go about helping to maintain a sustainable moose, caribou or sheep population in a region of the north.
At the same time you want to keep your resident recreational, fly in hunting clients happy, so they come back year after year.
Let's throw out some boundaries, go with the Stikine River to the south, Yukon border to the north, Kechika to the east.
Lets hear the long term plan, the one that will make sure their are moose, caribou or sheep there for your kids and grandkids.

The northward migration of recreational hunters is taking its toll, and it shows, so how are we going to fix it.
Driving 1500 km, jumping in a float plane to go in and hammer every legal thing you see, just because "legal rams and legal moose are developed every year" is a pretty poor mindset.

There's a lot of BC where damn little of any game is being developed yearly, let alone anything legal.
I would say the owner of BC Yukon has a mindset that is far ahead of most of the posters on this forum when it comes to the well being of wildlife, and not just because he's an outfitter.

As to the flying abilities of BC Yukons pilots, they're top notch. If you have to wait at the base dock or wilderness lake for 2 hours or 2 days because of shit weather, any man with a brain would be damn glad that pilot was smart enough to wait for a break.
2 hours on a lakeshore isn't very long compared to eternity in a grave.

Take all the landable moose lakes and draw a circle around them to show how far residents are willing to pack a moose on their backs. Then factor in APR's if you are in a region with those. Then please explain to us how resident harvest can impact moose.

This isn't about conservation concerns. It's about giving your clients a wilderness experience and get them a trophy.
Outfitters have the tools(horses) to hunt much larger areas away from the lakes but it seems to me like they want easy trophies. Now, I get that but please don't pretend that flyin residents cause a conservation concern with moose......or caribou for that matter.

[Apolonius]

Youre a bright one.
Why don't you take the first kick at throwing out some solutions.
Or are you in the can!
Ok here we go.
If we want to manage game ,all game harvest we have to work with todays criteria for solutions that would work now and in the future.
And always leave room for improvement.
Like i always said,todays hunter,RH or Foreign has changed from the 80s or 90s.
People have way more money to spend.Driving 1500 km is the norm now.
The free for all of the years past have done the damage and WE all got to pay.
Decisions were not made ,because of personal reasons,profit and no political will.
Now we try to patch things,limit only the RH harvest and still keep the other parties untouched.
If wildlife is a crown property,treat it and managed as such.
Give wildlife scientists the freedom to make decisions ,according to science,not politicians making decisions for them.
Regulate and police all parties equally.No one has an inherent right to destroy at will.
Profits should not even be at the table.Because very soon there will be nothing to sale.
Restrict access,creat real wildlife corridors and refuses.
Predator control,animal or human.
ALL parties to the table,like it or not.
Once you create equality,you also make others believe in "the plan".Right now it is them and us.
Greed and entitlement is the order of the day.Profit,profit ,profit!!!!
With no trust,there is no reason to even have meetings.Talk is cheap.
Take in to account,the interest of all parties equally and make decisions ,that are equal for all.
No one owns anything,and i don't care if you are 1st generation,immigrant or native.
That would be a good start.
BUT I AM NOT HOLDING MY BREATH!!!!

[bearvalley]

Take all the landable moose lakes and draw a circle around them to show how far residents are willing to pack a moose on their backs. Then factor in APR's if you are in a region with those. Then please explain to us how resident harvest can impact moose.

This isn't about conservation concerns. It's about giving your clients a wilderness experience and get them a trophy.
Outfitters have the tools(horses) to hunt much larger areas away from the lakes but it seems to me like they want easy trophies. Now, I get that but please don't pretend that flyin residents cause a conservation concern with moose......or caribou for that matter.

Ok, Brent, how about 24 sheep hunters on Colt Lake at the same time.
Lacks in concern for conservation and care about the quality of the wilderness experience I would say.

Dont get me started on how little of a moose or caribou makes it back to the lake at times.
Talk to Matt, the CO up there, what he tells you might rock your world.
Horns and capes always make it out.......

And yeah Brent, it is about conservation concerns, within your imaginary circles around some lakes it's pretty much a dead zone.

[bearvalley]

Ok here we go.
If we want to manage game ,all game harvest we have to work with todays criteria for solutions that would work now and in the future.
And always leave room for improvement.
Like i always said,todays hunter,RH or Foreign has changed from the 80s or 90s.
People have way more money to spend.Driving 1500 km is the norm now.
The free for all of the years past have done the damage and WE all got to pay.
Decisions were not made ,because of personal reasons,profit and no political will.
Now we try to patch things,limit only the RH harvest and still keep the other parties untouched.
If wildlife is a crown property,treat it and managed as such.
Give wildlife scientists the freedom to make decisions ,according to science,not politicians making decisions for them.
Regulate and police all parties equally.No one has an inherent right to destroy at will.
Profits should not even be at the table.Because very soon there will be nothing to sale.
Restrict access,creat real wildlife corridors and refuses.
Predator control,animal or human.
ALL parties to the table,like it or not.
Once you create equality,you also make others believe in "the plan".Right now it is them and us.
Greed and entitlement is the order of the day.Profit,profit ,profit!!!!
With no trust,there is no reason to even have meetings.Talk is cheap.
Take in to account,the interest of all parties equally and make decisions ,that are equal for all.
No one owns anything,and i don't care if you are 1st generation,immigrant or native.
That would be a good start.
BUT I AM NOT HOLDING MY BREATH!!!!

You actually make sense here for the most part!

[blackbart]

So based on some view points would it be okay for me to fly into a lake occupied by an outfitter if I promised to only shoot a three year old or younger bull moose?? Heck , I would love to not pack a cape out!!!! How much meat do the non-residents actually take home with them back to Europe or USA?

[kebes]

Ok, Brent, how about 24 sheep hunters on Colt Lake at the same time.
Lacks in concern for conservation and care about the quality of the wilderness experience I would say.

Dont get me started on how little of a moose or caribou makes it back to the lake at times.
Talk to Matt, the CO up there, what he tells you might rock your world.
Horns and capes always make it out.......

And yeah Brent, it is about conservation concerns, within your imaginary circles around some lakes it's pretty much a dead zone.

I find it interesting that so many outfitters advertise the majority of northern bc as moose heaven to their clients when there are so few moose.... For example if you look at someone like BC Safaris website they state, "Bulls tend to be found just about everywhere in the summer (from lakes to mountain tops) and move into high thick cover in September."

If there's a conservation concern why advertise moose as abundant?

[bearvalley]

I find it interesting that so many outfitters advertise the majority of northern bc as moose heaven to their clients when there are so few moose.... For example if you look at someone like BC Safaris website they state, "Bulls tend to be found just about everywhere in the summer (from lakes to mountain tops) and move into high thick cover in September."

If there's a conservation concern why advertise moose as abundant?

Have you ever sat down and thought about what's gone on in BC as the push has been northward and more access created.
Look what's happened in the lower half of the province.
Now think about what I told SSS about his lake circles and the dead zones created.
Lakes for fly in RH, for the most part are chosen for the availability of sheep & caribou.
The moose close to these lakes get hammered just because they are there.
One thing about hunting with horses is you can get to where their are healthy populations, but if the dead zones continue to expand that will change.

[kebes]

Have you ever sat down and thought about what's gone on in BC as the push has been northward and more access created.
Look what's happened in the lower half of the province.
Now think about what I told SSS about his lake circles and the dead zones created.
Lakes for fly in RH, for the most part are chosen for the availability of sheep & caribou.
The moose close to these lakes get hammered just because they are there.
One thing about hunting with horses is you can get to where their are healthy populations, but if the dead zones continue to expand that will change.

Ill bite. Explain to me how harvesting bulls in a small radius around certain lakes is ever going to have an impact on moose numbers? I could see it having some impact on trophy animals but not on overall numbers?

[slyfox]

With all this talk about all are game up north vanishing soon I better call my buddy's and plan a couple sheep hunts before there all gone.

[Deaddog]

I fly with Tsayata air out of telegraph for the majority of my region six trips. Rick is a great guy, his policy is that he will not put more than one group on a lake at a time, that is part of the reason I book with him. He does take us in if other company's have hunters, but he will not "stack" up residents on a lake. For our group, we wouldn't fly with a company that would continue to fly people in where we are hunting. For us it is part of the experience to be relatively alone, that said if another company fly's someone in.. such is life...come on over for a beer. Last year we packed a bull just over 7 km , (all the meat!!!), by choice, closest bull was 500 yards behind camp. Moose certainly were abundant in the area I was in. I will continue to support company's such as tsayata air who refuse to put multiple parties on one lake.

[Gateholio]

]
I am not against free access to all on public land. Maybe you should know me before you pass off BS statements.

Ironic


Some access does need to be limited and controlled.
We can't carry on having a free for all, grab and run sale and expect to have big game in huntable numbers.

Since we are specifically talking about lakes in the north here, what's your idea of limiting access to them? Who gets to decide who goes where?


Gatehouse, let's hear you're ideas on sustainable wildlife and hunting oppurtunities, for now and in the future.
Do you have any?

Just because you're the mod, and have the "power" to ban who you don't want to hear, doesn't mean that you or what you are pushing is the right way to go.

It's interesting that in many posts you make, you want to get personal, and bring in things that are completely unrelated to the conversation. Why is that? Why do you feel the need to bring up that I can ban someone? How is it germane to the conversation?



The old line of I'm a BC resident and have the right to my legal share of wildlife isn't working.

How about the line of "it's crown land and citizens shouldn't be denied access to it unless there is a very good reason?"


Wouldnt you rather spend your money and fly into a lake and actually have the game available to get an honest chance of filling a tag.
Or would you rather watch 20 guys run up the mountain ahead of you, in pursuit of the last legal ram.

It wouldn't be much fun watching your "oppurtunity" go over the skyline, would it?

The opportunity is really the ability to go out and hunt in an open season. It's not supposed to be a guarranteed opportunity to kill something every hunt. It's the hunters money and if he chooses to hunt where there is competition, so be it. There's competition everywhere, for all species, and trying to artificially influence that is going to be a tough choice, as there will always be those that lose or perceive to have lost.

A few years ago I flew in to hunt sheep. We climbed to the top of the mountain on opening day, peered over the top and found rams. Then we saw that the outfitter had beaten us up the other side. Their angle didn't allow for a shot at the time, so they were waiting for an opportunity. We had a better angle and could have filled tags, but we didn't, as they were there first. Instead, we backed out quietly. Funny, I never regretted that decision until fairly recently,after looking at the attitudes of some. Most of the time when I've encountered other hunters, it's more bumping into them than both running after the same animal.

But you tell us the situation is dire, that hunters are to blame for killing everything, so we have to limit and control. Maybe the way to limit harvest is to focus on the most successful segment- the outfitters. Limit outfitters to a very small percentage of the lakes so the animals have a better chance everywhere else. Residents could go to any lake they choose of course, since they are citizens of BC. Since the outfitters are restricted to only a few lakes, that leaves all the others for residents to spread out on, and they could make an informed decision about going to a lake that the outfitter was allowed to use, as they would be aware of the outfitter camp there.

What do you think of that method of "limiting and controlling" access? It meets your criteria to spread hunters out, right?

[358mag]

Ok, Brent, how about 24 sheep hunters on Colt Lake at the same time.
Lacks in concern for conservation and care about the quality of the wilderness experience I would say.

Dont get me started on how little of a moose or caribou makes it back to the lake at times.
Talk to Matt, the CO up there, what he tells you might rock your world.
Horns and capes always make it out.......

And yeah Brent, it is about conservation concerns, within your imaginary circles around some lakes it's pretty much a dead zone.
24 resident hunters on Colt Lake , the Big Yellow taxi must have been very busy .......:twisted::twisted::twisted:
Sounds like a true wilderness experiences to me .
But its not about the experience its all about the kill . Some people just don't get it .

[bearvalley]

Good plan Gatehouse, with you leading the way we all will be watching cartoons.
Classic example of wanting to take more with no thought of putting back or holding back.
Hows the hunting working out in the majority of BC where your methods have been in place for years.
Who's getting the cuts now when wildlife is in short supply...all licensed hunters.
Do you not think that will happen in the north when game is in trouble.
As for getting personal....you don't or haven't. LOL

[Cordillera]

It's big country but sometimes you have to cover tons of ground to get an animal. And some lakes have one or two good sites to camp by the lakeshore. It's still possible to get skunked on a 10 day trip with just one party of 2 or 3 guys. It's not like the entire landscape is crawling with big game. if you pay big money to fly into a lake that's a kilometre long and someone is setup in the cove you always camp in, and you've got 3 groups of guys spotting from the lakeshore and racing toward every caribou or goat on the side of the mountain. That's frustrating. You drive 26 hours and spend $2000 on flights to get far away from people, where there is still game to be had. Otherwise you might as well cut the drive time by 14 hours and join the atv gong show everywhere else in the province.

You gotta have a plan b. If you fly in and there's another camp, head elsewhere. As said, game in this country is actually at pretty low densities so you have to spread out.

[Gateholio]

[QUOTE=bearvalley;1753297]Good plan Gatehouse, with you leading the way we all will be watching cartoons.
Classic example of wanting to take more with no thought of putting back or holding back.

Take more?

You are the one that wants to limit and control access, to spread hunters out. This is a plan that would do just that. Isn't that what you want?



Hows the hunting working out in the majority of BC where your methods have been in place for years.

My method of limiting outfitters to only a few select lakes is not in place, sorry.


Who's getting the cuts now when wildlife is in short supply...all licensed hunters.
Do you not think that will happen in the north when game is in trouble.

If there is a problem with game supply in the north, outfitters obviously should advertise that, instead of the "abundance" and "high success rates"



As for getting personal....you don't or haven't. LOL

No, I haven't. You have. All I did here was say that Bruce wasn't badmouthing anyone, he was just agreeing with why he was bought out- which you also confirmed by saying they were spreading hunters out.

[Apolonius]

I must say ,i do consider myself lucky.Maybe it is planning/research?Met very very few people out there.But.....big name lakes are out....lakes mentioned here....are out,way out.I got to give it to the outfitters,they have tight lips.And i admire them for that.Mention a name here or anywhere on the net and your honey hole ....is only a hole!!!Or it would be very soon.The grasshoppers show up....!So maybe BV is not all that wrong.....even for a guide.lol....lmao...ha ha

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Ok, Brent, how about 24 sheep hunters on Colt Lake at the same time.
Lacks in concern for conservation and care about the quality of the wilderness experience I would say.

Dont get me started on how little of a moose or caribou makes it back to the lake at times.
Talk to Matt, the CO up there, what he tells you might rock your world.
Horns and capes always make it out.......

And yeah Brent, it is about conservation concerns, within your imaginary circles around some lakes it's pretty much a dead zone.

there are laws already in place to deal with meat retention. Floatplane bases are great bottlenecks for enforcement.

[358mag]

I must say ,i do consider myself lucky.Maybe it is planning/research?Met very very few people out there.But.....big name lakes are out....lakes mentioned here....are out,way out.I got to give it to the outfitters,they have tight lips.And i admire them for that.Mention a name here or anywhere on the net and your honey hole ....is only a hole!!!Or it would be very soon.The grasshoppers show up....!So maybe BV is not all that wrong.....even for a guide.lol....lmao...ha ha

Glad to see that you get the big picturehttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.pnghttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.png
Pass the Doritos

[bearvalley]

there are laws already in place to deal with meat retention. Floatplane bases are great bottlenecks for enforcement.
Agreed Brent.

[bearvalley]

I must say ,i do consider myself lucky.Maybe it is planning/research?Met very very few people out there.But.....big name lakes are out....lakes mentioned here....are out,way out.I got to give it to the outfitters,they have tight lips.And i admire them for that.Mention a name here or anywhere on the net and your honey hole ....is only a hole!!!Or it would be very soon.The grasshoppers show up....!So maybe BV is not all that wrong.....even for a guide.lol....lmao...ha ha

You've got it.....just took a long time for you to get it out.
Big name lakes and high access areas are voids. They might be alright for the "opportunity" guys that aren't used to seeing much but overall, they suck.
I think up to date inventory work is going to show this.

[tangozulu]

Ok boys, the floors open.
Let's hear some of your ideas on how you would go about helping to maintain a sustainable moose, caribou or sheep population in a region of the north.
At the same time you want to keep your resident recreational, fly in hunting clients happy, so they come back year after year.
Let's throw out some boundaries, go with the Stikine River to the south, Yukon border to the north, Kechika to the east.
Lets hear the long term plan, the one that will make sure their are moose, caribou or sheep there for your kids and grandkids.

The northward migration of recreational hunters is taking its toll, and it shows, so how are we going to fix it.
Driving 1500 km, jumping in a float plane to go in and hammer every legal thing you see, just because "legal rams and legal moose are developed every year" is a pretty poor mindset.

There's a lot of BC where damn little of any game is being developed yearly, let alone anything legal.
I would say the owner of BC Yukon has a mindset that is far ahead of most of the posters on this forum when it comes to the well being of wildlife, and not just because he's an outfitter.

As to the flying abilities of BC Yukons pilots, they're top notch. If you have to wait at the base dock or wilderness lake for 2 hours or 2 days because of shit weather, any man with a brain would be damn glad that pilot was smart enough to wait for a break.
2 hours on a lakeshore isn't very long compared to eternity in a grave.

Northern towns like Atlin have lots of local resident hunters. Its the outfitters that roll in for a few weeks ever year from Dulseldorf or Huston thinking they own everything. Where do they get off even thinking that to themselves.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

You've got it.....just took a long time for you to get it out.
Big name lakes and high access areas are voids. They might be alright for the "opportunity" guys that aren't used to seeing much but overall, they suck.
I think up to date inventory work is going to show this.

My buddy killed a beauty 11 year old ram at one of these so called 'Big Name Lakes'. Pressured but not voids.

[bearvalley]

Northern towns like Atlin have lots of local resident hunters. Its the outfitters that roll in for a few weeks ever year from Dulseldorf or Huston thinking they own everything. Where do they get off even thinking that to themselves.
Who is the Atlin based outfitter from Dulseldorf or Huston?

[bearvalley]

My buddy killed a beauty 11 year old ram at one of these so called 'Big Name Lakes'. Pressured but not voids.
It can happen.
We both know of twister rams that have been taken in the last place expected.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

It can happen.
We both know of twister rams that have been taken in the last place expected.

Lol! He saw that one too.

[boxhitch]

Ok, Brent, how about 24 sheep hunters on Colt Lake at the same time.
Lacks in concern for conservation and care about the quality of the wilderness experience I would say.
.yeah , funny how lakes like that keep producing rams and successful hunters

Dont get me started on how little of a moose or caribou makes it back to the lake at times.
Talk to Matt, the CO up there, what he tells you might rock your world. Supported by the high number of charges and fines , well , if there were many .

[bearvalley]

yeah , funny how lakes like that keep producing rams and successful hunters
Supported by the high number of charges and fines , well , if there were many .

How many big Rams are being produced today compared to the past?
How many twisters are coming out of the honey holes that everyone used to talk about?
Damn few is the answer, once in a while someone wins the lotto and I would say that most of the time that ram had moved into that area from some distance away.
He didn't live to be big in the middle of the nuke zone.

As for the small number of CO charges and fines, that's true...but could change in a real hurry. That area is lacking hugely in COS manpower that have to cover a lot of ground.
1 CO, a huge amount of country and a lot will slide under the rug.
A couple of check stations will correct that, along with a presence at the float docks and boat launch. I beleive that's on its way, due to a joint effort being put in place up there.

There's a problem;
When sheep are flown out of an LEH area and are not CI'd and do not show as a harvest in the location taken in.....
When 3 guys, all their gear, and all they have of 2 moose come out in 1 Beaver trip......
When a couple sets of caribou horns make it out with no sign off meat......
All of the pilots have eyes and have seen this.

There has to be a legal, logical explanation.
Maybe the meat not coming out is all used as camp fare?

There is current inventory work taking place up there right now and unless the counts start to change a whole bunch in a hurry there will most likely be some changes.

But then boxhitch, you knew all of that...
Anyhow, this topics about worn out.

[BgBlkDg]

I have been following and enjoying this thread, I have not been north since 2009 and will probably never now flyin due to age and medical issues, but, am most concerned with conservation and residents rights/access.

This whole issue just shows, again, now crucial it is to get the whole allocation situation resolved and enforced. A specific percentage for guided foreign hunters and Americans ARE foreigners here, say 5% or maybe 10% of total, might well eliminate many of the problems mentioned here.

I also feel strongly that the well-known practice by certain GOs of making restrictive deals with local air transporters to fly ONLY their clients into certain places must be made illegal and major penalties for such behaviour made mandatory. If, I cannot gain access to wherever, NO Yankee or other foreigner should under any circumstances.

The GOs are NOT the "owners" of the land or the resource and WE must come first in OUR province.

[tangozulu]

Reality is they change constantly and Goodwin Family is the only local left. The rest switch out like dirty underwear. TAKU safarie was sold to the greens.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

How many big Rams are being produced today compared to the past?
How many twisters are coming out of the honey holes that everyone used to talk about?
Damn few is the answer, once in a while someone wins the lotto and I would say that most of the time that ram had moved into that area from some distance away.
He didn't live to be big in the middle of the nuke zone. .

Twister rams aren't meant to be taken every day....otherwise they wouldn't be called 'twisters'. They would just be 'nice' rams.

Wasn't there another twister taken out of one of those 'heavy fly zones' just last year?? 44 1/2" IIRC??

[bearvalley]

Reality is they change constantly and Goodwin Family is the only local left. The rest switch out like dirty underwear. TAKU safarie was sold to the greens.

Deals like Taku suck.
The new guy that's based around Atlins a good hand and from BC.
I will tell Brandon that he shouldn't wear a cowboy hat around town or he might get mistaken for a Texan.
The guys before him were from BC.
It's probably not really as bad there as you stated.

[bearvalley]

Twister rams aren't meant to be taken every day....otherwise they wouldn't be called 'twisters'. They would just be 'nice' rams.

Wasn't there another twister taken out of one of those 'heavy fly zones' just last year?? 44 1/2" IIRC??

We can wear it out Brent.
How many hunters? How many sheep? What was the average age? Success rate? Does it compare with past years?How many big Rams used to come out? My belt buckle is bigger.....
We can go on forever that I'm right, your wrong or vice versa.....its pointless.

[REMINGTON JIM]

We can wear it out Brent.
How many hunters? How many sheep? What was the average age? Success rate? Does it compare with past years?How many big Rams used to come out? My belt buckle is bigger.....
We can go on forever that I'm right, your wrong or vice versa.....its pointless.

Your RIGHT so quit defending the WRONGs ! :cry: jmo RJ

[bearvalley]

Your RIGHT so quit defending the WRONGs ! :cry: jmo RJ

RJ, are you sure you know what's right or wrong in this discussion?
My guess is, it's very unlikely.
Hearsay and Internet bullshit is pretty damn hard to back up with facts.
JMO

[REMINGTON JIM]

RJ, are you sure you know what's right or wrong in this discussion?
My guess is, it's very unlikely.
Hearsay and Internet bullshit is pretty damn hard to back up with facts.
JMO

well Buddy JUST keep guessing - BUT your not GOOD at it ! K :tongue: Cheers RJ

[Apolonius]

Percentage wise we might going down,but i think it is due to the growing number of hunters.
Number of rams coming out,would fluctuate ,also according to the numbers,or type of hunters at that particular year.
Succes in my opinion comes with desperation.
The more desperate you get,the further out you go,you work harder.
You get away from the crowds and you become more successful.
That is the reason,that the successful hunters are also "seasoned"....or have a "guide" that is.

[44inchStone]

I'm glad I've had my opportunities when I was in my younger years to kill some spectacular rams. What can be done now to prevent over hunting, over harvest and just plain greed?
When I killed my rams years ago I did months, sometimes years of research on an area. We older fellas had to do it the tough way. Maps, areal photos and just plain doing it. Sometimes I was successful and sometimes not. It's all about the hunt and learning. All these trips cost me both time and money and were all well worth it.
The internet, Facebook, non stop forums and a new breed of hunters are just some parts of our own issues. Pilots, Compulsary inspectors ,Conservation officers, Biologists, some showing up in areas where trophy animals have been harvested the previous years because we were required to report them. I'm not going to expand on each of these groups but I've had my experiences with all of them as maybe some of you. I've also been a guide and understand the trials and tribulations of that part of the industry. Are some parts of this industry in our province flawed?, I would say yes however GO's are only a small part of the problem. That could be an endless subject for residents.
We as hunters in BC who purchase liscences are required by law to report our harvest of certain animals, do FN's do the same? We know that answer and I am not here to point a truthful finger.
I have hunted areas for stones and have seen FN fellas coming out with 4 year old rams and 2 cow moose in a bull only area. There are double standards with these rules but again, this is just another governmental kink in the chain of problems that requires fixing.
If they are keepers of the land and seem so concerned about how many animals that are harvested in the province then why is there such a problem with their contribution to the solution. Submitting numbers, locations and sex of animals is what I would think would be a great start.
Who's fault is it with the big mess in our province? We can point fingers all day but will it ever fix the problem. I'm hoping some day it does.
There MUST be change or my grand children and yours will never have the same opportunities as we have been so lucky enough to have.
A little long but is only my 2 cents.

[Apolonius]

Very good points.Some of the points you made or problems you mentioned have become part of the "untouchables".
The truth is not necessarelly sought in government or this forums.
It is like a taboo.

[bearvalley]

44inchStone.....Good post.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

There are a few stats that may shed some light on this debate....although it's getting side tracked from the original thread topic.

Updated flight counts in a good portion of 7b
increased AAH in 7 b
Number or Rams killed
average age of Rams killed

Seems this whole 'perception' of too much pressure isn't warranted?

[bearvalley]

Brent, tell us, is what is going on sustainable in the future, in your honest opinion?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Brent, tell us, is what is going on sustainable in the future, in your honest opinion?

I'll leave that up to the biologists. We need to do our best to make sure they have the resources to properly monitor the populations and sex ratios.

[bearvalley]

I'll leave that up to the biologists. We need to do our best to make sure they have the resources to properly monitor the populations and sex ratios.

Who is we?
You are fully aware that inventory work is sadly lacking and underfunded.

[mtnmannbc]

What rackmaster said and everything reinforcing his post following, experience says i wouldnt feel comfortable dealing with bc yukon now unfortunately.

[BEAVERBRUCE]

Good to hear, no chance Ray or Earnie Sandy would have taken u into Bradford country back when they owned BC Yukon. Back then it was Delzell and Bradford was a guide.

ray & earnie have been flying into littlebluesheep beale & all the other lakes since the early 70's

[BEAVERBRUCE]

I think it's more about the client experience than 'managing wildlife.' If someone pays a lot of money to get into a lake, and then the same outfit flies in a bunch more parties the same week, there are going to be a bunch of pissed off hunters that won't ever use their charter service again.

There is undoubtedly a conflict of interest in Dease Lake these days. But it's capitalism, it sucks but they have every right to do whatever they want with their planes and pilots. It totally sucks because the outfitters will eventually have a stranglehold on the charter business.

The tension up there was palpable last time I was up there. The outfitter wants to keep planes flying all day because each flight is thousands in his pocket. But you have to bet there are some backroom phone conversations going on about who is going where. It feels greasy. Some lakes got "too dangerous" to fly into all of a sudden, and the outfitter is wheeling around spotting animals for his clients. They have a huge edge.

I will say that last time, we drove 26 hours, and when we got there at the agreed upon time for our flight, we were informed that we would have to wait many hours, because they had to fly food in for the outfitters horses, and then fly 2 of the outfitters parties into outfitter cabins, and pick up another outfitter party at another cabin to bring them to another lake because they hadn't seen any sheep. Needless to say I was exhausted and annoyed, the six hours we spent waiting I would have rather spent taking a couple short naps on the drive up. While we waited we were regaled with stories about how BCYukon left a couple hunters at a lake for 2 extra days because to pick them up they would have to fight a stiff crosswind and burn up a bunch of extra gas. I didn't like hearing that at all.

BUT, the last day of our hunt, we were packed up and waiting on the lakeshore, cold and miserable and exhausted while being rained on, thinking there was no way Keith was going to pick us up in this shitty weather, but the sound of the Beaver echoing down the valley almost brought a tear to my eye. He was cruising at 80 knots on the way to pick us up and we did 140 the whole way home, so he got a good tip for that.

keith never flew for bc Yukon he flew under his own licence ootsa air & used devline & billy's house & dock