Guns Seized!!! Beware

[Deaddog]

Just talking to my cousin and he related an amazing story. Last night a guy we both went to school with who lives in enderby was at home with his wife and kids, its around 0930 at night, they are just settling into bed. A knock on the door, he gets up to answer it . At the door are our finest (rcmp) he asks them what he can do for them, they inform him his pol is expired and that they have come for his guns. After a discussion he takes them to his gun closet and hands over ever weapon he has since childhood and on. They told him he has time (they didn't know how much) to take his pal and get his guns back. Makes me wonder what kind of country we live in when the police , who are so "busy" solving crimes have nothing better to do than this.:evil:

[overthetop]

Wow...that sucks. Do you think there could be more to the story he is not telling you?

[Krico]

Wow, our gun registry dollars are finally paying off:rolleyes:. I'm guessing he won't ignore his next PAL renewal notice:neutral:.

[Kirby]

Or maybe he will be like me, they lost my renewal, then when I sent the second copy in they told me that I need to re-apply as its expired. Its been a year and I am still waiting to get it back.

Kirby

[sirttt]

Wow...that sucks. Do you think there could be more to the story he is not telling you?
if theres not more to the story whats next home inspection:confused:

[Benthos]

i have a hard time believing that if there is not more to the story.

[7mmag]

A mans home is invaded and his property stolen by our government because he forgot to fill out some forms!!!

Then when it's discused on a HUNTING! form people say it's his fault!:confused:

No wonder we're lossing this fight!

If you don't insure your car do they seize it?

Powerful people in Ottawa want to do away with YOUR way of life it's time we all realised that!

Anyway thats my rant for the day

[Deaddog]

I asked the same question about more to the story, there was nothing extra to the story, We have known this fellow for almost thirty years, he did not recieve his notice of renewal, I went to the CFC (now rcmp) heres what it states, they did not waste much time "jumping on the bandwagon"
Q. What happens if I do not renew my licence?
To be able to possess firearms lawfully, you need a valid licence authorizing you to possess the firearm and a valid registration certificate for the firearm. If you only possess non-restricted firearms and did not renew your licence before it expired, an amnesty (http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/notice-avis/amnesty_e.asp) protects you from penalties under the Criminal Code until May 17, 2007. This will give you time to comply with the law.
In all other cases, if your licence expires, your registration certificates may be revoked. Therefore, it is very important to renew your licence before it expires in order to minimize the risk of penalties under the Criminal Code for illegal possession of a firearm.

[Trailmaster]

They pulled my Dads pol because he has no registered firearms, they sent a letter that they would not renew it, and becuase its a pol i could not transfer one to him. The only reason he has no firearms registered to him, is because he did not agreee with it, so i registered all his guns in my name, and have them with me.

[Dirty]

They pulled my Dads pol because he has no registered firearms, they sent a letter that they would not renew it, and becuase its a pol i could not transfer one to him. The only reason he has no firearms registered to him, is because he did not agreee with it, so i registered all his guns in my name, and have them with me.

That's bullsh*t that they did that. It now effectively restricts him from borrowing any guns or purchasing any ammunition for borrowed guns. I would have flipped right out. How do they have the power to revoke a license based on the fact that he doesn't own any guns? My grandmother doesn't own a car, and doesn't drive but she still has a drivers license. I haven't heard that they have revoked it or rejected her 75$ everytime she renews it. People have to start standing up to this kind of crap. The mentality of people who want to regulate guns is ridiculous. They obviously don't understand that unregistered guns are the ones being used in crimes. Even with these "better" rules it is easier than ever to get an illegal gun. I bet I could leave my house and buy an illegal gun in 15 minutes. Just head downtown and look for a crackhead. Look at the crime rates in the US where possession of handguns were regulated in one state and allowed in another state. The state allowing handguns had a lower crime rate. There needs to be a serious change in the way things are in Canada. Only in Canada a guy can get 10+ years for growing some dope and another guy can get 7 years for murder.

[mark]

Well Im sure hes not the only BC resident whos POL has expired. Seems funny that some guy in enderby gets this nightmare come true???? Unless some new legislation has appeared, then alot of people will be experiencing this problem!

[mrdoog]

That's a shame about losing the firearms. He'd better get his butt in gear and complete the paperwork.
Enderby must be almost crime free, imagine that, having an RCMP freed up at 9:30p.m. to attend a call about an expired POL?

[blacklab]

This seems to be happening with some regularity. One has to wonder if the visit has anything to do with the value, or rarity of the firearms siezed?
There are thousands of people with expired licences and registered firearms, What rational is used to determine who gets a visit?

[Hank Hunter]

I recently spoke to a firearms training instructor who told me the govt has not been sending out pol renewal notices, he said he has been going 7 days a week with pal courses trying to catch up for guys with this same problem. LESSON is do not rely on anyone to remind you, only you are responsible for ensuring you renew on time.

[kutenay]

REMEMBER that this IS happening under the Tories under Stephen Harper who is SUPPOSED to be our "friend"! The R.C.M.P. and other cops WILL take your guns, WHENEVER they think they can; this is one reason why I favour increasing public controls over the police, the Ian Bush case is another.

[steel_ram]

If you do not let the police into your house, do they have any legal reason to enter?

[BCLongshot]

WOW

I've been trying to renew my license and they keep (twice) sending me a different form.

They are truly messed up with the transfer.

[bsa30-06]

Ok this thread has got me thinking, if they are not sending out re-newal notices how far in advance should we be re-newing our licenses.For example my PAL expires march/08 should i download the forums and send them in now, to make sure they have sufficient time to process the paperwork and get it back to me before my PAL expires and they sick the cops on me because they couldn't do their job fast enough.?Isn't it a little starnge that you get a notice to re-insure your car, your home , your drivers license, your magazine subscriptions and newspaper subscriptions etc., but not your firearms license.?

[Gateholio]

Guys, this has been happening quite a bit.

Groups like the NFA, CSSA and RFOBC have been sending out warnings about this for some time now, i am surprised that anyone is surprised. Maybe it's time to pick a group(s) and join it?

This is especially vile, since the federal government has declared an AMNESTY for those who haven't complied yet. What we have now is the RCMP beurocrats extending thier mandate past the elected officials.

A letter to your MP is in order.

Deaddog, there is a failry simple fox for this in the meantime. Have him transfer (sell) the guns to you. You take your new reg certs to the police, and tell them thye have your property, you pick them up and take them home until he gets his PAL.

[abbyfireguy]

Something smells way way too fishy and screwed up about this whole scenario for it to be just a run of the mill happening....Either the RCMP got their wires totally crossed(not a rare occurance with them),or, your friend has some skeletons in his closet than even he has forgotten about..
Even a phone call from someone who is anti-guns and has an axe to grind with your friend will bring the boys in blue knocking..
Is it right ? Of course not,but, what is a normal and sane man to do in his BVD's at the front door when staring at two or three armed, vested and guite possibly cranky cops...
I think the local paper would have all my details on page one with names and pictures if I was treated that way for no reason and no common sense over small piddly items of paperwork...
Do some more digging and you may find a better reason for this non-sensical action..
With regards to renewing our PALs and POLs,,,we're all adults here folks, and is it up to the government to hold our hands and whisper in our ears about every renewal we forget???
Nope, we need to take some responsibility for ourselves...
I try and apply early for most expiring certs because I have the memory of an empty box:???: and will forget about it if I leave it...
Quess I get too wrapped up thinking about important things like hunting and fishing..:wink:

[Gateholio]

Repeat:

This is happening quite commonly.

There is nothing "fishy" about the peopel that are being targeted.

Gun owners are being targeted and thier property seized for forgetting to renew their papers. Not becuase they are all of a sudden "dangerous"

The concept that the gun owner is somehow "to blame" is BS. It's just a piece of paper, it does nothing to ensure safety.

This has happened twice to people that I am aqquainted with.

Write your MP and complain, and CC MP Gary Briekuwietz and PM Harper.

[mcrae]

I wouldn't doubt it if the software the CFC uses for the registry flags a guy as soon as his PAL or POL expires and they don't have anything on file in the form of an application to replace it. I would imagine it then gets forwarded to the provincial counterparts and they run with the ball....

Its a shame that they will spend this much time on someone who has not done anything wrong except forget to fill out a form. I believe the better approach would be a polite phone call with a suggestion to get it done.

just my 2cents!

[blacklab]

I've always wondered how many of the supposed 5000 registry checks a day are shopping trips. You can be assured that some of the people with expired POL's are not going to bother with the trouble or expense to get a PAL and guess who gets first chance to pick up some bargains
As for Krico's comment, if we had any b---- we would have all forgot to renew.

[ruger#1]

DECRIMINALIZING SIMPLE POSSESSION OF A FIREARM
WHERE NO CRIMINAL INTENT OR UNSAFE ACTIVITY OCCURS?

Please find below the link to the Library of Parliament background paper entitled: “Legislative Options to Decriminalize Unauthorized Possession of a Firearm.”
http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/2007_new/147.doc (http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/2007_new/147.doc)

As you know, I am personally committed to keeping the repeated promises made by the Reform, Canadian Alliance and Conservative Parties to repeal Bill C-68, the Firearms Act. In the meantime, I am considering the possibility of introducing a Private Members Bill/Motion or an amendment to Bill C-21 to decriminalize simple possession of a firearm where no criminal intent or unsafe activity occurs.
BACKGROUND INFORMATION
(1) On January 31, 2003, the Minister's User Group on Firearms met with Justice Minister Martin Cauchon. One of the recommendations made to the Minister that day and transmitted to the Minister by Steve Torino, Chairman of the User Group, in a letter dated February 4, 2003, stated: “Decriminalize all firearms activities where no criminal intent or activity occurs such as the possession of unregistered firearms by a licenced person. This removes law-abiding firearms owners from the category of true criminal activity, allowing law enforcement to concentrate on true criminals.”
(2) On May 19, 2004, a front-page story in the Globe and Mail reported: “A package of reforms aimed at revamping the $1-billion gun registry has been before cabinet for more than a month, stalled by ministerial wrangling, although a last-minute push is under way to try to announce changes within days. Sources say the reform package recommends decriminalizing registry offences, reducing the registry's bureaucracy and dramatically strengthening sanctions against those who commit crimes using guns. Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan is responsible for the reform package and it is sitting on her desk, according to sources, although it was written by Albina Guarnieri, associate minister of National Defence. Ms. Guarnieri spent more than three months traveling the country listening to groups and individuals on the issue. Sources say Ms. Guarnieri has delivered a substantial package that focuses on public safety -- targeting the criminal use of guns rather than law-abiding owners such as hunters and farmers.”
Note: Copies of former Minister Albina Guarnieri's report are not available to the current government or the public as they are still protected as a Cabinet secret.
(3) Criminalizing "simple possession" of a firearm violates our fundamental right to own and enjoy property.
I NEED YOUR ADVICE AND ANSWERS TO 3 KEY QUESTIONS:
A. Which legislative option from the Library's background paper would be most effective at achieving my objective of decriminalizing simple possession of a firearm where no criminal intent or unsafe activity occurs and yet still doesn’t tie the hands of police when they find firearms in a gangster’s car, a biker's bunker or a criminal’s pocket?
B. Which legislative option would be most acceptable to the majority of law-abiding gun owners, firearms organizations, non-gun owners and proponents of the current or an even more stringent gun control regime?
C. Should this legislative amendment be introduced as a Private Members Bill or Motion or as an amendment to Bill C-21?
PLEASE SEND YOUR COMMENTS TO:
Dennis Young, Parliamentary Assistant
c/o Garry Breitkreuz, MP
House of Commons
Room 685, Confederation Building
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A6
Phone: (613) 992-4394
Fax: (613) 992-8676
E-MAIL: breitg0@parl.gc.ca (breitg0@parl.gc.ca)
www.garrybreitkreuz.com (http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/)

[BCLongshot]

Gatehouse your right.

Lloyd they told me they DO Not send out renewal notices and renew 6 mths prior.

This doesn't shock me but it does because it's so damn stupid !

[Will]

EVERYONE that is only in possession of a POL should buck up...spend the day or two and get your PAL, I think everyone had sufficient time to :-?.......BTW get the Restricted and Nonrestricted.

Sure you may not want a Handgun today......but why not preserve your right to have one tommorrow 8)

[chola]

EVERYONE that is only in possession of a POL should buck up...spend the day or two and get your PAL, I think everyone had sufficient time to :-?.......BTW get the Restricted and Nonrestricted.

Sure you may not want a Handgun today......but why not preserve your right to have one tommorrow 8)


X2:wink:........................

[hunter1947]

Just let them come and try and find my guns there hidden so good that i have a hard time finding them when i want them.

[wsm]

need a warrant to enter your premises under these conditions tell them to get a judges signature and come back.

[J_T]

A couple of years back a friend of mine living in PG and his wife became legally separated. Within a matter of days of filing the separation, the RCMP came and confiscated his weapons. All legal, including the handgun he owned.

He did eventually get them back. I guess we need to keep in mind the questions on the PAL applications and consider that they are likely aimed at profiling psycos. A man - with access to weapons - going through a separation/divorce/rough spell in life, may be a loose cannon. (In their opinion)

[Fosey]

A good friend of mine in Gold River had the RCMP threaten to take his guns away also. His POL had expired and he challenged the test to get his PAL. Then he had some screw up with the people in Miramchi, N.B so the cops phoned his wife earlier this week and said they were going to take the guns. On Wednesday the cop phoned his house and my friend saw the number on call display. As he was about to run and hide his guns the answering machine came on and the cop said he had talked to the people in N.B. and everything was cleared up. So my friend answered the phone and the cop explained the whole thing to him again. The cop said there is 3 or 4 other people in Gold River that their POL has expired and they are in the same boat.

Everybody better get used to the rules or they will keep having alot of hassle. The Consevative party is not going to do anything about the Gun registry they think it is Political suicide. the only person that keeps pushing to abolish the gun registry is Gary B. from saskatchewan and he is one amongst many.

[horshur]

The letter they send telling you that the license is expired is a whole peice of work in itself(Threatening)
What pisses me off about the whole deal is that plenty of folks would have renewed until the Cons announced amnesty(I know it ain't the same thing but that is how it was understood by well meaning folk)
And so now some have complied got there PAL and wait--mnths--year--How long do ya wait till you conclude they are incompetant???

listen--some of the brightest minds in the world have worked on stategy's to limit personal Firearm ownership--they are succeeding..
****ing *******s will answer to the misuse of God given intellect some day--but until then we are here.

[Fisher-Dude]

need a warrant to enter your premises under these conditions tell them to get a judges signature and come back.

Actually my understanding is they don't. The powers under the firearms act allow the cops to enter your home without a warrant and seize your guns and/or arrest you for a breach of the act.

[boxhitch]

Guys, this has been happening quite a bit.

Groups like the NFA, CSSA and RFOBC have been sending out warnings about this for some time now, i am surprised that anyone is surprised. Maybe it's time to pick a group(s) and join it?
.
X2
Ignorance is bliss, until it happens to you.

[wsm]

Actually my understanding is they don't. The powers under the firearms act allow the cops to enter your home without a warrant and seize your guns and/or arrest you for a breach of the act.
if they enter your premises and confiscate firearms without a warrant they would have to prove in a court of law that you were a danger to your self or someone else. or the chief firearms officer has to order it. otherwise they have committed an offense. (illegal search and seizure)

[Fisher-Dude]

WSM, if a person's POL or PAL has lapsed, they would have committed a criminal act and would therefore be subject to the search and seizure provisions of the act, wouldn't they?

I'd like to think that here in Canada we wouldn't be subject to unreasonable search and seizure, but IIRC, this was one of the issues that the opponents of the act were saying when it was introduced. The cops know the act, and I don't think they would be banging on doors at 9:30pm to take someone's guns away if they needed a warrant first...the cops don't generally waste their time on a "bust" if they can't make the charge stick on a technicality. I believe they used the firearms act to get access to Pickton's property without a warrant, saying they were investigating a 22 rifle or something like that. Anyone remember?

[wsm]

WSM, if a person's POL or PAL has lapsed, they would have committed a criminal act and would therefore be subject to the search and seizure provisions of the act, wouldn't they?

I'd like to think that here in Canada we wouldn't be subject to unreasonable search and seizure, but IIRC, this was one of the issues that the opponents of the act were saying when it was introduced. The cops know the act, and I don't think they would be banging on doors at 9:30pm to take someone's guns away if they needed a warrant first...the cops don't generally waste their time on a "bust" if they can't make the charge stick on a technicality. I believe they used the firearms act to get access to Pickton's property without a warrant, saying they were investigating a 22 rifle or something like that. Anyone remember?
personaly had the problem in question for 2.5 months, i consulted a lawyer and the chief firearms officer, both people assured me it would not be legal for the rcmp to take my guns as long as they did not leave the locked storage. i went 2.5 months no pal, they hadn't even got started on the renewal. but the papers were in their posesion, i had to hound them to get started. however i have had the cops here to check storge of the rifles. that was a little strange. lawyer told me next time to send them away

[BCLongshot]

You know it's sad that we have to have this conversation isn't it.

I've never broken the law, work hard, married 23 yrs, have 2 productive well behaved kids/adults and yet I feel like I'm bad. I haven't had a damn ticket since 1993 and I drive for a living !

Bullcrap

Yet more than half of society/lawmakers/politicians are loser screwups !

[Rob]

Does anyone know the website for the gun registry? I am looking for my PAL but cant find it.

[ohno]

Dewey - Here you go.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/default_e.asp

The whole gun registry is a bit of a farce. Why don't they have a "criminal" registry....it would be a lot more effective than that 2Billion waste of $$. Talk about trodding on a persons civil rights look a bill C-68. Written by bureaucrats and lawyers.

[ruger#1]

Just dont forget who the idiots are that bought us Bill C68.

[trapperdan2061]

for now he should get a buddy to buy the guns then the buddy could go to the RCMP with a bill of sale and retreive them.

What do you think guy's.

[BlacktailStalker]

Doesn't work that way. Once they are gone, they are gone. They won't even let you take the scope off a rifle if they are in the process of confiscating it apparently. I bet the scopes don't get destroyed.

[Jagermeister]

I bet the rifles don't get destroyed either. They probably 'migrate' into "someone's" safe.

[abbyfireguy]

I would apply for the pal or pol and take copies of the documents to the RCMP,,show them and ask the status of the firearms and speak reasonably and calmly....
Huffy demanding people get little assistance or help...
One would think that people behaving in a proper manner would be treated with some understanding...
Having a letter from a lawyer outlining the problem may assist....
Speak to someone in authority not just the skirt or constable behind the counter if you get nowhere ..
Sgt.,Staff Sgt, or whoever is the watch commander or detachment OIC(officer in charge) will have more pull and hopefully more common sense than a 6 month rookie from BlowFly Manitoba who sees little past his nose and only follows orders...:???:

[6616]

From the CFC website: http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/bulletins/20070517_e.asp


· Under federal legislation currently in force, owners of non-restricted firearms need a valid firearms licence and each firearm must be registered.

· Those who do not comply with the licensing and registration requirements risk criminal liability for unauthorized possession under the Criminal Code.

· On May 17, 2006, a one-year amnesty period was established for owners of unregistered, non-restricted firearms who hold a valid licence or who had a licence that expired on or after January 1, 2004, as long as they were taking the necessary steps to comply with the Firearms Act.

· Following public consultations in April of 2007, the amnesty period has been extended for one more year, until May 16, 2008.

· During the term of the amnesty period, these individuals cannot incur criminal liability for unauthorized possession of a non-restricted firearm under section 91 or 92 of the Criminal Code.

NOTE: Restricted and Prohibited firearms are NOT covered under this amnesty. Those who have never had Firearms Licence - a PAL or POL - are NOT covered under this amnesty. An FAC is NOT a substitute for a Firearms Licence. Unregistered guns will be confiscated until they are registered to a licenced individual.

RFOCBC

[boxhitch]

Unregistered guns will be confiscated until they are registered to a licenced individual.

That makes no reference to which guns, restricted or non- , so leaves the door open for anything to be confiscated, UNTIL THEY ARE REGISTERED.
Amnesty.....bullsh&%^

[kutenay]

Agreed, the amnesty is just a diversion so that they have time to get their plans together.

[hannibal]

I believe somewhere in C-68 is also a part about being able to enter your home without an warrant to inspect your papers, storage and if necessary confiscate your firearms until you prove that you have everything in order--the burden of proof under c-68 is on the individual not the crown. totally against that stupid charter but hunters and firearms owners have been made less equal every year for the last 20 years. Proof - I grew up in Delta, son of a Iron Curtain immigrant married to a 3 generation scotch (typical canadian). I recently had to explain to my parents (I'm 31 now) that I own "too many firearms" because I can, I hunt because I can, my father came to Canada because of these rights and freedoms, and even he now after 38 years is brain washed. It's not about why do you need it, it's about why not, I got no record, clean papers, I pay way too much tax, I tolerate all the people I don't like yet they want to take from us one of the few things we have for discipline and enjoyment. NO. Play the game, keep your papers up to date, write your MP, MLA, be pro-active, there are still no thought police. But some of you may remember that the rcmp did search under an "apparent tax violation" the offices of the RFCOBC and seized all the membership records so they could have a list of all the people who are pro firearm or atleast anti guncontrol. They know who we are, don't let that become a crime too.

[steel_ram]

I thought the Police were sworn to upholding the rights of the citizens of Canada. I guess they don't necessarily teach them what those rights are.

Regardless of whatever reason the RCMP take firearms into their possession, they will treat well cared for rifle and fine optics as if it was a brick. Good luck getting it back the way they took it.

[kutenay]

In my experience with the police and it is extensive, MOST of them are OK and quite a few are dammed good people; I just had a visit from two officers involved in my guns being temporarily confiscated last January and they were good then and just fine now. However, I feel strongly that WE Canadians have certain fundamental birthrights which include firearms ownership and these are being eroded by various governments.

The police MUST follow policy and THIS is where we get screwed as they have to confiscate firearms due to our current laws and MANY cops I have known do not agree with these, especially older guys with great experience who KNOW that WE are not the problem. While I believe in strict public control over the police, I recognize that WE MUST somehow get OUR rights enshrined in the Constitution of Canada and THAT is what I want Harper's government to do.

We are all in this together and firearms freedoms, or the suppression of them, are THE hallmark of a free society. I keep writing letters and talking to people, it can't hurt and MAY help. IF, enough of us continue to keep the prerssure on Harper, we might change this to a situation where OUR rights are respected and the cops do not confiscate except where a genuine crime has taken place.

It's a battle that we cannot afford to lose!

[GoatGuy]

Some days life sucks.

No different than a driver's license.

It's up to you to renew it - don't count on the government to do it for you.

[kutenay]

Yeah, GG, BUT, the cops don't confiscate your car when you are late re-newing your DL, THAT is the difference!

[bsa30-06]

Some days life sucks.

No different than a driver's license.

It's up to you to renew it - don't count on the government to do it for you.

Atleast they send a renewal notice for your drivers license.:biggrin:

[wsm]

the burden of proof under c-68 is on the individual not the crown. funny thing about this is i have recieved in the past registration cards for three firearms that weren't mine and never were

[GoatGuy]

Yeah, GG, BUT, the cops don't confiscate your car when you are late re-newing your DL, THAT is the difference!


No, but if you get in a car accident you have no insurance and are 100% personally liable for all damages.

Also if you don't renew and get pulled over your car goes to the impound and you get fined.

You're not supposed to drive if you don't have a license just like you aren't supposed to own a gun if you don't have a POL/PAL.


I think the real reason everyone's choked is because of the registry not b/c they guy didn't renew his POL and I certainly support that. Just a matter of splitting those frustrations apart I suppose.

I received my PAL renewal 1 month after it had expired eventhough I had sent it off 2 months in advance. Must have been lucky!

[kutenay]

The fundamental difference here is that IF you drive with an expired licence, you deliberately take action in contravention of existing law and thus "create" a crime. If, you simply forget to renew or are delayed by circumstances in renewal of your PAL, YOU do not actively "create" a crime, however, the police treat you as though you have done.

I do not believe that we Canadians are nearly vigilant enough in protecting our rights, the same ones our forefathers died to preserve and this is one of those situations. NO police officer SHOULD be legally allowed to TOUCH ANY of your private property UNLESS there is clear evidence of an actual, deliberate crime....and THEN, confiscated firearms SHOULD, by law, be returned to their owner by the police, WITHOUT DAMAGE, as soon as any legalities are resolved.

The police NEED our support and, IMO, the majority of them deserve it; I am not anti-cop, or an anarchist; I simply believe in personal freedom and not in government control over society. Mind you, I don't envy cops who have the task of going to some guy's house to collect a bunch of guns as the horrible shooting of those Mounties in Alberta is obviously going to be on their minds....we live in a pretty whacked world, our freedoms are going to be dammed hard to maintain.

[GoatGuy]

The fundamental difference here is that IF you drive with an expired licence, you deliberately take action in contravention of existing law and thus "create" a crime. If, you simply forget to renew or are delayed by circumstances in renewal of your PAL, YOU do not actively "create" a crime, however, the police treat you as though you have done.

I do not believe that we Canadians are nearly vigilant enough in protecting our rights, the same ones our forefathers died to preserve and this is one of those situations. NO police officer SHOULD be legally allowed to TOUCH ANY of your private property UNLESS there is clear evidence of an actual, deliberate crime....and THEN, confiscated firearms SHOULD, by law, be returned to their owner by the police, WITHOUT DAMAGE, as soon as any legalities are resolved.

The police NEED our support and, IMO, the majority of them deserve it; I am not anti-cop, or an anarchist; I simply believe in personal freedom and not in government control over society. Mind you, I don't envy cops who have the task of going to some guy's house to collect a bunch of guns as the horrible shooting of those Mounties in Alberta is obviously going to be on their minds....we live in a pretty whacked world, our freedoms are going to be dammed hard to maintain.

I agree, and I think he'll get his guns back.

[Beverly]

My dad just called about this earlier today as his is up for renewal soon. He was told not only are they still sending out renewal notices but that the people having guns seized is likely because they were sent a renewal notice that was returned to the office.

Soooo...if you move make sure you change your address! An address change at the post office is no good once it expires the term you paid for and they do not pass the change on to other agencies.