backpacking shotgun - 12.5" or 18.5" barrel?

[Jc12]

Hey guys, i have long been waiting for the 12.5"barrel to be back in stock from canada ammo and in that time stumbled across a few posts where people scrutinized the 12.5 and suggested something bigger. In all of these situations people were using it for home defense where my main purpose will be a backup for hunting, fishing, backpacking etc. I shot an 18.5" yesterday at the range and felt quite a bit more kickback when compared to my 28". Anyway, the negatives i have heard are that it (the 12.5") is much louder, more recoil, has more muzzle flash and there is the possibility of having your hand slip in front of the barrel. I imagine i will use the barrel for some wilderness shooting on occasion when camping but mostly for backpacking defense, what are your thoughts and experiences? thanks!

[Useyourfeet]

18.5" is a nice length. Enough barrel to get some velocity yet short enough to be handy. I don't see much upside in the super short barrel other than portability.

[M.Dean]

A defender shot gun really sucks for protection in the bush! When you have a big olde hungry black bear walking towards you and your food, try to aim that sawed off piece of shi* and better yet, try to hit the bear that's getting closer and closer with each of the 3 rounds you fired at it! Out of 2 Buck Shot rounds and 1 Slug, "One" pellet was found in the bears paw well skinning it out, and I'd bet money that god dam bear stepped on that one! And the guy that had the defender still, to this day thanks his buddy who was smart enough to grab a 300 Mag and hit the bear in the neck! Also, get a defender and make dam sure it's "Unloaded", now just for fun get a buddy to come after you in the hall way from your bedroom, now you try with all your might to "Pretend" to shoot him, "Safely"! Now take note at the amount of times that short little barrel is pointing at "Your" head, or body! I have a long barrel shot gun that breaks apart in 3 pieces, is easy to carry, and most importantly, easy to aim and fire! The defender in question here was sold the day after the owner returned, alive from that trip! And bears were open!

[RiverOtter]

Pass the rifle.....

Seriously, I used to pack a Mossberg Mariner on hikes etc., but I sold it off long ago in favour of a light weight rifle. Not real keen on the idea of either spraying and praying, hoping you get lucky and slow it down, or waiting till whatever wants to eat you is in your lap, so you actually have a chance of doing some good.

So besides answering "neither" to your question, an 18" bbl is way more practical than a 12".

[wildcatter]

Here is a good looking lever action shotgun with a 13" barrel, but they have a 20" as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5hiG8kpEM8
Anybody got this or has experience handling it?

[okas]

KSG holds 15 :evil: 2 3/4 9 ball or slugs one side ball on the other 18.5 barrel total length 26 inchs

[Gateholio]

You could split the difference and go 14" :)

My 14" 870 is really handy. But it's loud. 12.5 will be louder and your hand in front might or might not be an issue.

FWIW I readh for my 16" barrel 45 Colt M94 Trapper these days. :)

[RackStar]

A defender shot gun really sucks for protection in the bush! When you have a big olde hungry black bear walking towards you and your food, try to aim that sawed off piece of shi* and better yet, try to hit the bear that's getting closer and closer with each of the 3 rounds you fired at it! Out of 2 Buck Shot rounds and 1 Slug, "One" pellet was found in the bears paw well skinning it out, and I'd bet money that god dam bear stepped on that one! And the guy that had the defender still, to this day thanks his buddy who was smart enough to grab a 300 Mag and hit the bear in the neck! Also, get a defender and make dam sure it's "Unloaded", now just for fun get a buddy to come after you in the hall way from your bedroom, now you try with all your might to "Pretend" to shoot him, "Safely"! Now take note at the amount of times that short little barrel is pointing at "Your" head, or body! I have a long barrel shot gun that breaks apart in 3 pieces, is easy to carry, and most importantly, easy to aim and fire! The defender in question here was sold the day after the owner returned, alive from that trip! And bears were open!
Very interesting story and I believe it. Thanks for sparing me the waste of time defender!

[Jc12]

thanks for the input guys. At the moment i don't have a budget for a new rifle etc, but can get either of these barrels for $80. Basically wondering if you had to select one of the two which would it be and how come (considering my application for it), thanks!

[OneStevo]

Pass the rifle.....

Seriously, I used to pack a Mossberg Mariner on hikes etc., but I sold it off long ago in favour of a light weight rifle. Not real keen on the idea of either spraying and praying, hoping you get lucky and slow it down, or waiting till whatever wants to eat you is in your lap, so you actually have a chance of doing some good.

So besides answering "neither" to your question, an 18" bbl is way more practical than a 12".



FWIW, I also used to pack a Mossberg 590 in the bush, with slugs, and felt pretty safe, it has a 20'' barrel, so maybe a bit on the long side to be "packable". And i think the only benefit of the short barrel is portability, not necessarily accuracy but i agree, i'm switching for a good, lightweight rifle.

[180grainer]

When you have a big olde hungry black bear walking towards you and your food, try to aim that sawed off piece of shi* and better yet, try to hit the bear that's getting closer and closer with each of the 3 rounds you fired at it! Out of 2 Buck Shot rounds and 1 Slug, "One" pellet was found in the bears paw well skinning it out, and I'd bet money that god dam bear stepped on that one!
I'm pretty sure you were drunk when you wrote this, (hey I understand. Do it myself on occasion) but why do people still insist on suggesting 00buck is a legitimate bear defense round? It's not!!!! Slug slug slug slug slug slug...............

[180grainer]

Pass the rifle.....

Seriously, I used to pack a Mossberg Mariner on hikes etc., but I sold it off long ago in favour of a light weight rifle. Not real keen on the idea of either spraying and praying.
If you'd use the proper ammo you wouldn't be spraying and praying.....slug slug slug slug slug slug......absolutely nothing wrong with an 18.5 inch slug gun....why do people keep talking about buckshot? It's for deer hunting, (barely adequate for that) or social work. Not for bear!!!!

[brian]

why do people keep talking about buckshot? It's for deer hunting, (barely adequate for that)
Just gotta say, buckshot used right is like the hammer of God on deer. Don't aim for the boiler room. A fist sized group of pellets aimed at the neck and you're almost guaranteed to hit the spine, down they go on the spot. But using it on a charging bear seems silly, the pellets would need to penetrate the skull and I don't know if they can do that. I definitely wouldn't rely on buckshot taking out its vitals. I think I'd rather use pepper spray than buckshot on a charging bear.

[Ambush]

If you are trying to hit a charging bear at 50 + yards, then you are guilty of premature ejactulation.

You are very likely creating a much more serious situation by shooting to soon and having a wounded, angry bear now intent on neutralizing you as a threat. That same bear would have very likely veered off before contact was made. They bluff a lot.

[Backwoods]

If you are trying to hit a charging bear at 50 + yards, then you are guilty of premature ejactulation.

You are very likely creating a much more serious situation by shooting to soon and having a wounded, angry bear now intent on neutralizing you as a threat. That same bear would have very likely veered off before contact was made. They bluff a lot.
Lol x2 on that!!! I've done sooooo much research on this topic, I've spoke with many outdoors men/ hunting enthusiast and time over time I'm told to have bear spray with me, it creates a good size cloud between you and the bear, gives you a chance when a bear is charging, a lot of guys miss charging bears when shooting, let alone the adrenaline the bear has after you hit and wound the bear because you made a bad shot, he going to get yah!!! 2015 opening day for moose in august, I was charged by a large black bear from 200 yrds, yelling at him he didn't stop I ended up shooting him at 55yards right in the chest with a 300winnmag he ran off 800+ yards through thick thick bush, he easily could've kept coming at me but luckey he took off into the bush!!!!

[RiverOtter]

If you'd use the proper ammo you wouldn't be spraying and praying.....slug slug slug slug slug slug......absolutely nothing wrong with an 18.5 inch slug gun....why do people keep talking about buckshot? It's for deer hunting, (barely adequate for that) or social work. Not for bear!!!!
To clarify, only the first round was 00 Buck, the remainder of the tube was 2 3/4" slugs. The Buck shot was never meant to be charge stopper per say, merely a more forgiving means of slowing a charge to allow for better follow up shots via slugs.

In my opinion, it is a moot point, as a good handy rifle is far superior to a sightless, smooth bore any day.....

[M.Dean]

I'm pretty sure you were drunk when you wrote this, (hey I understand. Do it myself on occasion) but why do people still insist on suggesting 00buck is a legitimate bear defense round? It's not!!!! Slug slug slug slug slug slug............... Double Ott Buck Shot at "Very Close" range is deadly, there's not many animals in N. A. it won't knock down or kill out right. But, a slug is better, has way more weight and there forth knock down power. And a real short shot gun is great, if your in a bar room brawl, but get it and roll around in a collapsed tent with a bear hammering the shit out of you and start pulling the trigger, I'd bet you die from "Self Inflected Gun Shot Wounds"! As far as weapons go, I prefer one I can aim then fire, and hopeful hitting the target. With a hand gun you can point it, take aim and fire, try that with a defender or any other short barreled firearm. Why, cuz you have to hold the defender with both hands so it doesn't break your bloody nose when it flies up from the recoil. I fired a "Mares Leg" a while back, I believe it was a 444 Magnum, looks real wild, but how in hell do you aim that one too? And, Oh, P/S, I don't drink. And I couldn't help but notice 180, you typed in a "S" instead of a "G" in front of Lug Lug Lug!

[RiverOtter]

Bear spray has worked for some, no doubt. Just hope you get charged from down wind, or you'll be in a heap load more trouble. Also, I've read way too many accounts of it having ZERO effect on predatory black bears, which is not much of a confidence booster.

[Gateholio]

Defensive shotguns really should have rifle style sights installed.

12.5 vs 18? Whichever had the better front sight. If they are the same, I'd probably opt for 12.5, just because the chances of needing it are low and it's more portable. Guns that are cumbersome tend to get left behind. Make sure you practice with it, shorty shotguns aren't as easy to operate as they are to carry.

[Good Old Outdoors]

I use my 590A1, holds 8 3" shells, and I load 5 slugs in it, it's heavy but once you take that out and put your rifle in it will feel a lot lighter. No more not having a gun in the bush for me after I saw a massive grizzly stare me down and bluff charge me. That sure puckered up the butt hole.

[604Stalker]

X2 on the 590a1 if the 7 slugs dont work you can smack the bear in the face with it. But if its strictly for bears up close grab the 12.5 double barrel and let em have it! Personally if im walking through the bush i usally have my 300 with 180 grain bear spray... Never had much trouble with black bears must be to loud and stinky when I hike

[Jc12]

okay, its settled ill do the 18.5" barrel and then look into a folding stock or just a shorter version than the factory 870 express one. This way i can extend the magazine capacity as well.

[Squamch]

Make sure you practice with it, shorty shotguns aren't as easy to operate as they are to carry.


This bit here is key, no matter what you choose.
I carry an 18" barrel 870 with a 2 round extension full of slugs when I check my camera or hike (where it's legal) during the offseason. And, I bring it EVERY time I go shooting. I'll run a box of birdshot through it just to practice muscle memory on the slide, and a box or two of slugs at a 2x4 piece of plywood. Practice practice practice. When I shoot my 870s, I don't think about racking it, that's all instinctive, it goes bang, I rack another round into it.

[RiverRunner]

870 wingmaster
12.5 barrel. Tritium big dot sight for insanely fast target acquisition … this one hits whatever I point it at with accuracy inside 35yards. Forward sling plate to keep that hand from creeping forward and blowing it off. Muzzle control and practice keeps everyone safe. Shooting defensively at bears outside of 50yards is just wrong.
if your dealing with an oh crap moment.. you'll only have enough time for 2 out the pipe anyways….
It's light, it's tight …it comes along. The beauty of the 870 platform is the modularity… I also have a 28" barrel for birding.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/rodflyrod/IMG_2420.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/rodflyrod/media/IMG_2420.jpg.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/rodflyrod/IMG_2424.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/rodflyrod/media/IMG_2424.jpg.html)



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/rodflyrod/IMG_2471.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/rodflyrod/media/IMG_2471.jpg.html)

[scoutlt1]

"i will use the barrel for some wilderness shooting on occasion when camping"

To the OP....what does that mean really?? Just curious....



I've always felt comfortable with my 12 Gauge Winchester Defender (folding stock) when hiking and sleeping in the woods. It always comes with me. Maybe, and probably better guns for defense out there, but I've owned, packed, and "practiced" with it for over 20 yrs.

Just my two pennies.....

[snipersights]

I own the stoger double defense coach gun. I have this gun for bear defense its fairly light breaks down in literally seconds and accepts 3'' slugs. At 20 yards it will shoot through a tree the same size as a telephone pole. Will it stop an angry grizzly???? A friend of mine at work put a 338 win mag into a black bear through and through shoulder plus two more good torso shots and it ran up hill until hitting a stump that it could not make it over then stopped but was not dead. Then I was charged by a black bear and shot it in the neck with my crossbow for an instant drop kill. Shot placement is way more important than size in my opinion. Having said that you cant always get a good shot off. I would say go with a gun that you know and are comfortable with because even a $2000 shotgun wont save you if your not used to it. But get something that has a wallop. If your looking at rifles try the marlin 1895 in 45/70. That will do everything and is light weight

[snipersights]

ps the stoger cost me 300 and ive put approximately 700 rounds through it without an issue

[albravo2]

If your looking at rifles try the marlin 1895 in 45/70. That will do everything and is light weight

I wouldn't call it lightweight, but it feels good to carry it in the bush. I had the action slicked up and it cycles very quickly and cleanly now.

[Stump]

would anybody go with the model 12 12g shorten?

[caddisguy]

I have a dominion grizzly compact (based on 870) It's a tiny little thing with an 8 or 8.5 inch barrel and retractable stock. It wouldn't be very good for stopping a bear charging from 30-50 yards but for in the tent or close encounter in the bush, I'd prefer it over the 28" or 30-06. Easier to move around and I can relialbly hit water bottles with slugs up to 15 yards... quickly too but albeit motionless water bottles in a calm / controlled situation. I've taken it on a few trailcam trips... not when I'n actively hunting though since I'd have to carry two guns which is unpleasant.

[Steve W]

Defensive shotguns really should have rifle style sights installed.

12.5 vs 18? Whichever had the better front sight. If they are the same, I'd probably opt for 12.5, just because the chances of needing it are low and it's more portable. Guns that are cumbersome tend to get left behind. Make sure you practice with it, shorty shotguns aren't as easy to operate as they are to carry.

After years of using the standard Remington sight I switched to the Ghost Ring for bear work. I find it to be a very fast point and shoot system - especially with aging eyesight. Practice. Practice. Practice.

[M.Dean]

870 wingmaster
12.5 barrel. Tritium big dot sight for insanely fast target acquisition … this one hits whatever I point it at with accuracy inside 35yards. Forward sling plate to keep that hand from creeping forward and blowing it off. Muzzle control and practice keeps everyone safe. Shooting defensively at bears outside of 50yards is just wrong.
if your dealing with an oh crap moment.. you'll only have enough time for 2 out the pipe anyways….
It's light, it's tight …it comes along. The beauty of the 870 platform is the modularity… I also have a 28" barrel for birding.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/rodflyrod/IMG_2420.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/rodflyrod/media/IMG_2420.jpg.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/rodflyrod/IMG_2424.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/rodflyrod/media/IMG_2424.jpg.html)



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/rodflyrod/IMG_2471.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/rodflyrod/media/IMG_2471.jpg.html) Now that's what I was talk'in Bout! You can take aim at the problem with this Gun, and "Poof", it's gone! This is the first time I've seen one of these Shot Guns, for home defense you wouldn't even have to fire it, bad guys would run just at the sight of it!

[J_T]

Now that's what I was talk'in Bout! You can take aim at the problem with this Gun, and "Poof", it's gone! This is the first time I've seen one of these Shot Guns, for home defense you wouldn't even have to fire it, bad guys would run just at the sight of it! I bought the 12Ga Dominion Grizzly. 12 inch barrel. Similar to this. Light and small.

[Jc12]

"i will use the barrel for some wilderness shooting on occasion when camping"

To the OP....what does that mean really?? Just curious....




I've always felt comfortable with my 12 Gauge Winchester Defender (folding stock) when hiking and sleeping in the woods. It always comes with me. Maybe, and probably better guns for defense out there, but I've owned, packed, and "practiced" with it for over 20 yrs.

Just my two pennies.....


haha just to make sure we are all on the same page it is to read wilderness not wildlife and just means some casual target practice while out in the bush on backpacking trips (where it is safe/legal etc). Just wanted to get the point across that the barrel i buy i will plan on using outside of just an emergency situation so i'd like it to be somewhat enjoyable.

[Katanajay]

Big fan of the Dominion Arms Grizzly 12.5", have the mag feed one. Can hit coffee cups with shot at 35yds easily. Keep it loaded with slugs when out camping or hiking around scouting locations. It's one of the most fun guns i own.

[Edge]

I'm stickin with my model 88 and 18.5" barrel...slugs & SSG shot....I'll let ya know if I have to use it.............

[caddisguy]

Big fan of the Dominion Arms Grizzly 12.5", have the mag feed one. Can hit coffee cups with shot at 35yds easily. Keep it loaded with slugs when out camping or hiking around scouting locations. It's one of the most fun guns i own.

Those Dominion Grizzly Compacts are great. I have the 8.5" with retractable stock. After firing it extensively I can do pretty good hitting water bottles or cans with slugs 15-20 yards. I honestly don't even really "aim". It's like throwing a ball or shooting a hockey puck or whatever. Hand-eye coordination. You just "know". Super fun plinker anyway. Only regret was that you can't drop a longer 870 barrel without extending the tube, so it's a plinker / critter defense gun only... hunting with it's not an option. I guess that's why I have two 12ga :D

[RackStar]

Or you could just get a 45-70 and be done with it.

[Sharpish]

870 wingmaster
12.5 barrel. Tritium big dot sight for insanely fast target acquisition … this one hits whatever I point it at with accuracy inside 35yards. Forward sling plate to keep that hand from creeping forward and blowing it off. Muzzle control and practice keeps everyone safe. Shooting defensively at bears outside of 50yards is just wrong.
if your dealing with an oh crap moment.. you'll only have enough time for 2 out the pipe anyways….
It's light, it's tight …it comes along. The beauty of the 870 platform is the modularity… I also have a 28" barrel for birding.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/rodflyrod/IMG_2420.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/rodflyrod/media/IMG_2420.jpg.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/rodflyrod/IMG_2424.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/rodflyrod/media/IMG_2424.jpg.html)



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/rodflyrod/IMG_2471.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/rodflyrod/media/IMG_2471.jpg.html)

I've been wanting to build something like that for a while, looks awesome. What stock is that? And where did you find a factory 12" barrel?

[RiverRunner]

I've been wanting to build something like that for a while, looks awesome. What stock is that? And where did you find a factory 12" barrel?

Magpul SGA stock.
Chinese (Dominion Arms) 12.5 barrel. Picked it up at that yearly gun swap show in Chilliwack. Dude had a multiples. $100 I think.
tritium Big dot sight…. Brownells

[RiverRunner]

Or you could just get a 45-70 and be done with it.
How much is 45-70 ammunition these days?

[BlackNock]

As a guide we have this conversation many times around the camp fire what is the best bear defence gun. Everyone has there difference of opinion. I have personal packed a 30-30, a 45/70, a 300 wsm no scope, a 18' defender with pistol grip, and now a 18" defender with a stock. If this gun is 100% used for one single purpose and that is only for a defender when say bow hunting, or a camp gun, or backpacking security a 18" defender of choice with slugs is a pretty good option! Id stay away from anything shorter, and stay away from pistol grip. We are talking about bear defence under 30 yards here. We deal with grizz every year over butchering, at 3am in camp, when crawling through dense bush and so on. I have tested all the above mentioned guns I spoke of and each one has its draw backs.
I can and will say this on the positive in regards to a good quality defender shot gun.
Keep it around 18"-more control and better accuracy.
Do not use a pistol grip [they suck]- More control over the gun, acquire target quicker, quicker reload with a pump, shoulder absorbed the recoil.
Load only with slugs as this is close quarter combat - You want damage and a slug is the best form of that if were talking shotgun.
Buy one with a rail system for flashlight - Come out of your tent in the dark and see if you can hold a flashlight and shoot your gun at the same time!?
Recoil pad is a nice option - Like I said just a nice option!
I prefer pump to semi - My thoughts here are less chance of jamming
Use a shell holder on the stock for quick reload - If you run out of ammo in the gun where is the rest of your ammo?
Fiber optic pins - in a stressful situation a nice bright sight pin is my recommendation.
For the cost a defender is a good option, other good options tend to cost a bit more money. This is a gun that will more than likely get beat up and abused so having 800 to 1000 tied up in a defence gun may be a little steep. A good guide gun or defence rifle can run you much higher. The rugar 375 guide gun is probably the ultimate bear stopper with a price that comes with it. This would be my ultimate choice! Hope this helps.