Grizzly Fine

[44inchStone]

So that hockey player is fined for killing a Grizz in BC. Was that because he killed in the Kwantna valley (sorry about the spelling) or was it because he is classified as a non resident because he spends the most of the year out of the province? Have'nt really been following this story, just heard something breifly on the news this morning.

[monasheemountainman]

non resident hunter-bullshit

[GotaGun]

I believe going after the fact he lives in states.now

[adriaticum]

It was because he does not qualify as a resident hunter under the ministry rules. There is a certain amount of time one has to spend in BC to be a resident hunter.
I don't know all the details but I believe that was the jist of it.
He probably assumed because he was a resident hunter that he would always be a resident hunter and did not pay attention to this one paragraph in the rules.
Personally I feel that he should not have been issued a license and a tag if he did not qualify.
I'm sure somewhere in the fine print in one of a hundreds of Licensing Agreements, Terms And Conditions Agreements, Terms of Use, that ones has to click and go through
the government washes it's hands of any responsibility for knowing if someone is a resident or not.
There is also the factor that he may have lied claiming that he did have the residency requirement while he didn't.
So hopefully it will come out in court.
They have to determine whether this a slip on his part or intentional misrepresentation of his residency.

[adriaticum]

B.C. Resident means:

(a) a person who


is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, whose only or primary residence is in British Columbia, AND
has been physically present in British Columbia for the greater portion of each of 6 calendar months out of the 12 calendar months immediately preceding the date of making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act,

OR


(b) a person who


is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, but whose only or primary residence is in British Columbia, AND
has been physically present in British Columbia for the greater portion of each of the 12 calendar months immediately preceding the date of making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act.

[adriaticum]

I don't know hockey and their lives but I'd say if he started training and preparing for the season in August or September while playing for Minnesota Wild he would be out of BC for most of the.
Basically if he applied for the license in Feb, March, April, May he probably would not be in BC a whole during the 6 months prior.

[44inchStone]

I guess that also includes MANY TV hosts to who live in this province but spend 300 days away?? Are they issued liscences and put in for LEH draws every year. I bet they do

[604Stalker]

Not to stir the pot but if he just shot the griz and never said shit about it it wouldent have even been an issue.

[monasheemountainman]

Not to stir the pot but if he just shot the griz and never said shit about it it wouldent have even been an issue.
true, but the fact he did shows that he wasn't trying to hide anything, and didn't know what he did was "wrong"...

[adriaticum]

Not to stir the pot but if he just shot the griz and never said shit about it it wouldent have even been an issue.

Actually, I don't think so.
He was seen and monitored by FNs and the antis who patrol that area.
They were just waiting for someone to do something so they could get media attention.
I'm sure there were digging into every aspect of his life and his hunt to find something to release to the media and discredit him.
They are running anti hunting campaigns in this area all the time. This just worked in their favour.
The fact that this was released a year or more after the hunt tells you how much time they spent digging this guy's dirt.
They wanted it bad.

[Salmon Belly]

Some info on the charges and guilty plea here:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ducks-stoner-admits-to-hunting-grizzly-without-a-licence-in-b-c/

SB

[adriaticum]

Yeah, looks like they got him.

[604Stalker]

I understand that anti hunting groups are extreamly active in that area and that the local fn had given the bear a name which is just rediculus... Put someone in a cage with "cheekey" and i bet he becomes mauley really quick. But if your a celeb and you post a picture on facebook of you holding a dead griz then your opening up the lane for shots fired. Its not lime anyone had to dig hard I read about his hunt long before the media really blew it up and their issue was that he was a non resident at the time and little was mentioned about it being non ethical just that he had been given an leh for the area. Personally I think the question stands if him being a non res was the issue why was he issued an leh for BC and what are they going to do in the future to stop this from happening to pthers who arn't following this and say spend 8 months in camp working their ass off only to be accused of poaching when they come home?

[wideopenthrottle]

I understand that anti hunting groups are extreamly active in that area and that the local fn had given the bear a name which is just rediculus... Put someone in a cage with "cheekey" and i bet he becomes mauley really quick. But if your a celeb and you post a picture on facebook of you holding a dead griz then your opening up the lane for shots fired. Its not lime anyone had to dig hard I read about his hunt long before the media really blew it up and their issue was that he was a non resident at the time and little was mentioned about it being non ethical just that he had been given an leh for the area. Personally I think the question stands if him being a non res was the issue why was he issued an leh for BC and what are they going to do in the future to stop this from happening to pthers who arn't following this and say spend 8 months in camp working their ass off only to be accused of poaching when they come home?

it is the hunters responsibility to ensure he is legal to apply for leh or they can/will charge you for applying as well

[Ambush]

He made a mistake. If he knew he was in contradiction of the law, he would have kept it quiet.

He could have fought it until he won just on time lag. He's got the money.

He did the right thing and plead guilty, because, unwittingly, he was .

I like it when high profile people openly support hunting.

I hope he hires a guide and kills a cranker grizzly, legally, right under Raincoast's nose. Or spends just enough time in BC to get one DIY.

Then has a "grizzly BBQ" on the beach and invites us all. I'd fly down for that.

[finngun]

Antis and some fn are willing to go any distance if they can find mistakes made by anyone of us..so be careful what to do out there..
Most of us are,,and go by the book..so keep it that way.:?

[604Stalker]

Thats fair it is in the regs.. The whole thing makes me wonder though if he dident lie and instead set up his hunt legaly would it have still been a media issue due to his celeb and crazed antis or did some random just cross his facebook and get pissed that they missed out on that leh and reported him?

[GotaGun]

Just on global news.
He got 10k fine.
Said if he did it all legal would have been 28k.

According to global news 1/3 the price to do it again the way he did.

[Ride Red]

I'd like to see them prove it wasn't "Cheeky" and Stoner sue Rainforest for defamation of character.

[RiverBear]

B.C. Resident means:

(a) a person who


is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, whose only or primary residence is in British Columbia, AND
has been physically present in British Columbia for the greater portion of each of 6 calendar months out of the 12 calendar months immediately preceding the date of making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act,

OR


(b) a person who


is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, but whose only or primary residence is in British Columbia, AND
has been physically present in British Columbia for the greater portion of each of the 12 calendar months immediately preceding the date of making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act.


So what this is saying TO ME is that the guys that work out of province in camps shouldn't be allowed as well then cuz most of the guys I know work 21 and 7 so they're not home even close to half the year. there should be a clause that says if you are out of province for work it doesn't count.

[604Stalker]

You are right about this I was comming more from the perspective of the uninformed if there was someone who had been hunting forever and forgot all about the 6 month rule. Like I said before you quoted it its in the regs its just bunk for the working type folk. Stoner on the other hand knew what he was doing and got pinched. Same as a guy who would have hit that big 3 he saw in november and hit a game check only 2 differences I see there are hes got a name to blow up and hes got the cash to do it legal if he chose to. And red check the link to the artical they did prove it doubt they even said sorry.

[finngun]

Just on global news.
He got 10k fine.
Said if he did it all legal would have been 28k.

According to global news 1/3 the price to do it again the way he did.

was he able to keep G bear?

[Geo.338]

Most hunters know the regs and laws around d residency requirements . Any hockey player who is based in the states would be hard pressed to meet residency requirements . Not to mention he most likely could have afforded to do it legally .

Think about the ramifications if every person with a part time BC address came to BC to hunt , it would be a $HIT show . I think the laws are reasonable and are in place to protect the resource .

BC is the best province to live and hunt in with the most variety of species . Unfortunate if you work out of province and can't meet residency requirements , but , you can always hunt Alberta or whatever province you happen to be working in . I know there are quite a few hunters who feel entitled because they own a home and pay taxes in BC .

So if you want to play this game be prepared to suffer the consequences , and any time the legal line is crossed in the field the act of hunting becomes poaching . We are very quick to judge and label when it is some guy who shoots a animal out of season or a 5 point elk or three point mule deer , well this is not much different .

I think his hunter number should be pulled and I think he got off lucky . I think the province should track BC residency through SIN OR Reven use canada and see where people are really spending their time and debunk these shysters.

Now flame away .

[358mag]

So what this is saying TO ME is that the guys that work out of province in camps shouldn't be allowed as well then cuz most of the guys I know work 21 and 7 so they're not home even close to half the year. there should be a clause that says if you are out of province for work it doesn't count.

Yes same thing , just a little different because Clayton was a NHL hockey player not a rig worker .

[boxhitch]

So what this is saying TO ME is that the guys that work out of province in camps shouldn't be allowed as well then cuz most of the guys I know work 21 and 7 so they're not home even close to half the year. there should be a clause that says if you are out of province for work it doesn't count.Should be a clause in there about where they pay taxes too. Some U.S. citizens have homes in B.C. or the Yukon and spend most of their money out of country but enough time here to claim resident hunter status.

[bighorn]

it was the strike year so he was close

[okas]

:redface: ha ha got away with it. As i was offshore as a rig welder mechanic for 5 years missed a few turn arounds and had the whole season off . Oh my i feel so ashamed

[Elkhound]

A statement from Ken Stoner. (Hockey players father)


Clayton Stoner and the Grizzly Bear
I have chosen to go public with the real story about this bear hunt to put it in the proper light. It is not meant to promote hunting and it is not in support of the anti-hunting groups, it's just "the truth".
I hope it helps show the public the level that supposedly "good people" are willing to lower themselves to for their cause, not caring whose reputation they destroy along the way.
When we met Robert Johnson the First Nation watchman in Kwatna (an extremely remote part of the province) he told us he could not stop us from hunting there but asked that we respect the land. The entire time we were there we were under the impression Robert had befriended us, he ate with us, he drank with us, and he shared stories with us. He was very helpful with his directions on how to get up the river to where we got the bear. When we got the bear back to the main boat and Robert was taking a few hairs for DNA samples I asked him if he had ever seen this particular bear bear before and he told me he had not but that "it was not uncommon for bears to pass through there". The entire time we spent with Robert he never mentioned anything about a bear named "Cheeky" or any other bear that he or anyone else had a relationship with.
When the story broke it was extremely hard on our entire family to listen to and read all the lies that were being told. To set the record straight the head and paws were not severed, the bear was not 5 year old Cheeky, it was not shot with a shotgun. This was a very large 18 year old male, the exact type of bear the BC Wildlife Service asks you to harvest. And when Robert was supposedly in his tent crying over the loss of Cheeky he was actually on our boat drinking and did so until 3-4am.
The possibility that Clayton wasn't a resident never crossed anyone's mind, he was born in the province, raised in the province and owned a home in the province but under the wildlife act he fell a few days short of the required amount of days to be classified a resident. I don't believe there ever was a bear named Cheeky and I believe once they found out Clayton played in the NHL they saw it as a way to bring awareness to their cause.
The truth is:
Our Vancouver Island born and raised son grew up hunting and fishing. He lives between Canada and the US because of his seasonal job. He shot a legal bear, in legal season, in a legal area with a licence that he incorrectly assumed he was qualified for. He is only guilty of a miscalculation of the days he lived outside Canada that year.
Ken Stoner

[Rob Chipman]

Nice statement from Mr. Stoner. I like it.

[Riverbc]

Just sharing an email I sent to Fish and Wildlife, and the reply I received.


Hello



In light of the Clayton Stoner incident, there have been discussions about people who fly to Alberta to work in the oil industry. Many of these people from BC, fly into camps and work there for 2 weeks, and then fly home for one week, whereupon, they return to the camps. Over the course of a year, with the exception of vacations, this puts them in Alberta working for 8 months, and in BC for 4 months. To me, this reads that they cannot purchase a BC resident hunting or fishing license, as they have not been physically present in BC for the great portion of 6 months of the calendar year. My question is.....am I interpreting this regulation correctly?





Thanks



Don


and the reply


Hello Don,



Thank you for your email dated February 1, 2016, regarding the Wildlife Act definition of a BC Resident. Your enquiry has been forwarded to me for response.



Your interpretation of the resident definition is consistent with my own. Over a one year period, a person that spends the majority of each month outside of the province of BC does not meet the definition of a BC Resident and is ineligible to obtain a resident hunting or resident freshwater angling licence. For simplicity, I will expand on the definition as it relates to a Canadian Citizen or Permanent Resident of Canada and for the purpose of obtaining a resident hunting licence.



A Canadian Citizen or Permanent Resident of Canada meets the definition of BC Resident if:



1) Their only or primary residence is in British Columbia, and

2) They are physically present in BC for the greater portion of each of 6 calendar months out of the 12 calendar months immediately before doing a thing under the Wildlife Act (i.e. obtaining a resident hunting license).



#2 is the part of the provision that can be confusing. Here are some circumstances related to #2 where a person meets and does not meet the definition:



A person meets the definition of BC Resident if, in the year preceding an application for a resident hunting licence:

· a person is out of the province for 6 months and in the province for 6 months

· a person is out of the province for 6 months and in the province for *16 days* out of every month for the remaining 6 months they meet the definition. 16 days is an example, 31 days is the maximum number of days within a calendar month (Jan., Mar., May, July, Aug, Oct., and Dec.), if a person is in BC for 16 days during a month with 31 days they have spent the majority of that month in the province and that month would count towards the minimum number of 6 months where majority presence is required. Calendar months with 28 days would require a person to be physically present for 15 days.

· a person is in the province for 16 days per month.



A person does not meet the definition of BC Resident if, in the year preceding an application for a resident hunting licence:

· a person is out of the province for 7 or more months

· a person is in the province for 14 days per month



It is understood that this definition can be challenging for individuals that work out of the province doing shift or camp work. The Provincial definition of “resident”, for the purpose of hunting, is designed to ensure that hunters are not eligible to be a resident hunter in both BC and another province. Wildlife management in British Columbia prioritizes resident hunters over non-resident hunters (less expensive licenses, more hunting opportunity, larger share of the available harvest, etc.). If a person meets the definition of “resident” in BC and another province they may be able to realize this priority in two different jurisdictions (other jurisdictions also have resident priority policies), which is contrary to the intent of resident priority policies in British Columbia.



British Columbia is home to 17 big game species that are hunted. This is also unique to Canada and provides a different social and biological environment in the province. Arguably, the hunting opportunity available in British Columbia rivals or surpasses those available in any other jurisdiction on the continent. For this reason the province is a highly sought after destination for hunters around the world. Due to this international demand the province is always cognitive of providing priority to resident hunters in the province, and must be judicial with any exemptions that provide allowance for residency status. Currently, there are no initiatives to amend the current residency provisions in the provincial Wildlife Act.



There are two ways for a non-resident to legally hunt big game in British Columbia.



1) Permits to Accompany for non-residents to hunt in British Columbia are available to friends and family of a BC resident providing the resident has held a British Columbia resident hunting licence and a big game species licence for 3 of the 5 licence years immediately preceding the application for a permit. More information on permits to accompany are available through the Permits and Authorizations Services Bureau at http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/pasb/applications/process/accompany_hunt.html.



2) If a non-resident is not listed on a permit to accompany, the only way they can legally hunt big game is if they hire the services of a licensed guide outfitter in the province. There is considerable information online for guide outfitters in British Columbia that operate in British Columbia, a simple internet search of guide outfitters in BC would likely result in ample information. The Fish and Wildlife branch also has a list of all of the guides in the province and some information on the regulations and steps required to hire the services of a guide outfitter in the province. This information is available at http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/non_resident/.



However, non-residents and non-resident aliens may hunt for small game in British Columbia without the requirement to be accompanied by a resident or hire the services of a guide outfitter. Small game is defined as raccoon, coyote, skunk, snowshoe hare, and game birds. Game birds are further defined as upland game birds: grouse, pheasant, ptarmigan, quail, and turkey, and migratory game birds: ducks, geese, pigeons, coots, and common snipes.



Regards,



cid:image001.png@01CC3C8C.33725280Stephen MacIver|A/Manager, Wildlife Management Section|Fish & Wildlife Branch|Ministry of Forests, Lands, and Natural Resource Operations

[Geo.338]

The fact that Clayton Stoner may not have been a legal resident of BC crossed my mind while I was in moose camp while at the same time the stoners were also hunting moose in the Omineca region . If he was a Vancouver Canuck it would be a non issue but it is pretty obvious that a Minnesota wild player most likely would not meet the requirement . The mistake of his miscalculation made his " Legal hunt in a legal season in a legal area " Illegal , plain and simple .

The statements of some such as Okas speaks to the sense of entitlement and "above the law " thinking of some members on here .

We as hunters get all up in arms when we see atrocities in the news like the BC Sheep hunter who shot the ram in the Yukon and we are offended when they are called hunters as it paints hunters in a bad light . We emphasize that these are not hunters but "poachers " which is a very ugly word when you or I are called it or when a sports personality like Clayton Stoner is called that but it is what it is .


So if the laws , wether you agree with them or not are not enough to keep one on the straight and narrow , maybe the thought of having your face and name in the news in the worst possible light will , and when a hunter crosses that legal line , whatever it may be it is not a victimless crime , it is crime against wildlife who don't stand a chance and it is a crime against every legal hunting British Columbian and non hunter alike .

There is a reason why "Ethics " is the first topic covered in core and it is emphasized that ignorance is not an excuse to break the law and it is the hunters responsibility to know the regs and laws and how it applies to them .

I have seen many posts regarding illegal and unethical hunting practices on this site . It would appear that as stiff and strict that the fines and penalties are for these violations are , they are not stiff enough as people continue to commit them .

[Gateholio]

I guess that also includes MANY TV hosts to who live in this province but spend 300 days away?? Are they issued liscences and put in for LEH draws every year. I bet they do

Jim Shockey won the special sheep permit and had to return it as he didn't qualify as a resident.

It's bizarre that the current residency requirements disallow guys that own a home in BC, spend all their money in BC, pay taxes in BC, have family in BC but work out of province, while at the same time allowing a foreigner that spends lots of time in BC to qualify as a resident hunter, even though they don't pay Canadian taxes...

[dmaxtech]

, while at the same time allowing a foreigner that spends lots of time in BC to qualify as a resident hunter, even though they don't pay Canadian taxes...

Permanent residents pay taxes here and in their home country, my parents did that while living in the USA for 5 years.

[Gateholio]

Permanent residents pay taxes here and in their home country, my parents did that while living in the USA for 5 years.

How about if they are not registered as permanent residents? The regulations don't require permanent residency, just that you spend the required amount of time in BC and identify your BC home as your primary residence. I can see it being possible for a US citizen with a home in BC spending the required time here but also traveling back to the US, with no need to become a permanent resident.

Actually, I recall reading on HBC a number of years ago when something like this happened, a HBC member ran into foreigners hunting sheep on a resident license because they had a house in BC.

Although I see this as less an issue than the time spent in province rule for actual BC citizens.

[bandit]

How about if they are not registered as permanent residents? The regulations don't require permanent residency, just that you spend the required amount of time in BC and identify your BC home as your primary residence. I can see it being possible for a US citizen with a home in BC spending the required time here but also traveling back to the US, with no need to become a permanent resident.

.

the requirements are different for bc residents who are neither citizens nor permanent residents. Need to be in BC for the greater part of each 12 months prior to hunting. So in theory you lose residency status if you go abroad for a 3 week holiday.

[Riverbc]

Need to be in BC for the greater part of each 12 months prior to hunting. So in theory you lose residency status if you go abroad for a 3 week holiday.

That's incorrect, It's the greater part of 6 out 12 calendar months.


2) They are physically present in BC for the greater portion of each of 6 calendar months out of the 12 calendar months immediately before doing a thing under the Wildlife Act (i.e. obtaining a resident hunting license).

[bandit]

That's incorrect, It's the greater part of 6 out 12 calendar months.


2) They are physically present in BC for the greater portion of each of 6 calendar months out of the 12 calendar months immediately before doing a thing under the Wildlife Act (i.e. obtaining a resident hunting license).

nope, please re read the first sentence. There are two different residency requirements


who
(i) is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, but whose only or primary residence is in British Columbia, and
(ii) has been physically present in British Columbia for the greater portion of each of the 12 calendar months immediately preceding the date of making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act;

[Riverbc]

I stand corrected. You are absolutely right. I was so focused on the first section, that the second section never registered in my brain.
B.C. Resident means:

(a) a person who


is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, whose only or primary residence is in British Columbia, AND
has been physically present in British Columbia for the greater portion of each of 6 calendar months out of the 12 calendar months immediately preceding the date of making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act,

OR


(b) a person who


is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, but whose only or primary residence is in British Columbia, AND
has been physically present in British Columbia for the greater portion of each of the 12 calendar months immediately preceding the date of making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act.

[J_T]

I guess there will be a whole lot of Canadian Pro hockey players and executive re-thinking their off-season activities this coming year.

[Lugg]

Maybe I'm being ignorant but why does the law prevent a Canadian citizen from doing things like this in their own country? Don't we all have the same rights?

Just because someone does not reside here full time does not mean it's not their home if they are a citizen. Your family may still be here, you probably still want to enjoy all the things you have always done legally as a Canadian.

Maybe someone can school me on why I'm wrong in my thinking.

Now if someone changes their citizenship to another country that's another discussion.

[Koot]

It does't sit well with me that a kid may be out of province for university,collage,tech ,or trade school and not be considered a resident of the province he or she has grown up in and calls home. I know many kids who come home for a hunt and use that meat to feed them for their school year.

[David Heitsman]

When we put the jet in at Skook's this year, 1/3 of the truck plates parked there were from Alberta. When I stopped in Stone Mtn Park to look at the sheep, two of the pick-ups there parked with no one in them were from Alberta. With so many of us working basically full time, (till recently) in Alberta but still maintaining a home in BC, I think we should be careful how hard this 'residency' restriction is pushed. Hope the hockey player got to keep the bear since we won't have access to hunt them in BC for much longer.