cbc story on alberta sheep study

[Red_Mist]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/trophy-hunting-stunting-the-horns-of-bighorn-sheep-study-finds-1.3413295

there goes the trophy hunting label again. it starts with it getting applied on grizzy bears and then well pretty much every species. soon there will be studies on trophy duck hunting and how it effects populations.

[wideopenthrottle]

heheheh...I just barely beat you to posting this

[Vladimir Poutine]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/trophy-hunting-stunting-the-horns-of-bighorn-sheep-study-finds-1.3413295

there goes the trophy hunting label again. it starts with it getting applied on grizzy bears and then well pretty much every species. soon there will be studies on trophy duck hunting and how it effects populations.

I don't hunt sheep. How is a 43 year old study on the horn size not evidence of something occurring?

[Xenomorph]

Because rams reach their peak reproductive years long after their horns reach the legal size limit for hunting, Coltman said the trait for large horns is systematically culled from ram populations.



As soon as you become legal, you've got a 50-50 chance of making it to the mating season that year.


I'm so sick of pseudo scientist and sensationalist ****ing media.

[brian]

It is an article about size reduction in the horns of bighorn sheep owing to hunting. Of course its about trophy hunting, big horns being trophies sought after by hunters. This is about biology and our impacts on the evolution of a herd. You're so eager to get your backs in a huff politically that you are missing the point biologically. There is an interesting phenomenon that some herds of big horn sheep are growing smaller horns. One studies posits that it is trophy hunting to blame. This article contradicts and earlier article/study from 2014 http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/alberta-s-bighorn-sheep-not-shrinking-due-to-trophy-hunting-1.2733565

It's interesting to see how we are impacting the animals we hunt. The end of the article asserts we should change hunting practices if we want to continue seeing really big horns.

How exactly is the work of these biologists pseudo science? What specific part of their methodology was flawed? I am assuming you have read the study before commenting on it, if not you can find it here. (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eva.12358/abstract)

[Ltbullken]

It makes sense that if there is enough selective pressure targeted to a specific trait, the animals that don't possess that trait will have a survival advantage. In this case, the genetic trait of small horns for age will have a genetic advantage or a better chance of survival. So now what...?? What would Valerius Geist do? Maybe there should be more hunting of yews and immature rams to balance it out, put less pressure on mature rams? I don't know what the hunting regs are in Alberta. But it is food for thought here in BC.

[Ltbullken]

It is an article about size reduction in the horns of bighorn sheep owing to hunting. Of course its about trophy hunting, big horns being trophies sought after by hunters. This is about biology and our impacts on the evolution of a herd. You're so eager to get your backs in a huff politically that you are missing the point biologically. There is an interesting phenomenon that some herds of big horn sheep are growing smaller horns. One studies posits that it is trophy hunting to blame. This article contradicts and earlier article/study from 2014 http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/alberta-s-bighorn-sheep-not-shrinking-due-to-trophy-hunting-1.2733565

It's interesting to see how we are impacting the animals we hunt. The end of the article asserts we should change hunting practices if we want to continue seeing really big horns.

How exactly is the work of these biologists pseudo science? What specific part of their methodology was flawed? I am assuming you have read the study before commenting on it, if not you can find it here. (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eva.12358/abstract)

yep... ditto...

[kamloopshunter25]

Doesn't 50% of the genes come from the ewe? As well as nutrition plays a big role. Interesting read for sure

[Xenomorph]

It is an article about size reduction in the horns of bighorn sheep owing to hunting. Of course its about trophy hunting, big horns being trophies sought after by hunters. This is about biology and our impacts on the evolution of a herd. You're so eager to get your backs in a huff politically that you are missing the point biologically. There is an interesting phenomenon that some herds of big horn sheep are growing smaller horns. One studies posits that it is trophy hunting to blame. This article contradicts and earlier article/study from 2014 http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/alberta-s-bighorn-sheep-not-shrinking-due-to-trophy-hunting-1.2733565

It's interesting to see how we are impacting the animals we hunt. The end of the article asserts we should change hunting practices if we want to continue seeing really big horns.

How exactly is the work of these biologists pseudo science? What specific part of their methodology was flawed? I am assuming you have read the study before commenting on it, if not you can find it here. (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eva.12358/abstract)

It's an interesting read, but I think we're stretching the hypothesis a little too far. It's one thing to agree on hunting pressure lowering the number of elite animals, and it's another to claim the genetic pool dwindles. I'm not rambling about, but that's like saying just because my parents and grandparents were 5' nothing, I'm a freak of nature at 6+ a good chunk. No, it just means that the crazy genes from one of my grand-grandfather's 2m height found the perfect habitat, nurture to allow me to get here.

It's one thing to correlate "big horn occurrence" to lack of pressure two/four legged, but to go as to claim the gene pool is heading to thin/small horns, to me it sounds a little ...

It was a wonderful read, but I disagree with the premise hypothesized.

[Xenomorph]

How exactly is the work of these biologists pseudo science? What specific part of their methodology was flawed? I am assuming you have read the study before commenting on it, if not you can find it here. (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eva.12358/abstract)

I didn't see the article, was commenting at the CBC article author's comments as pseudo science. Sometimes I run off my mouth without thinking. My apologies

[Ltbullken]

It's an interesting read, but I think we're stretching the hypothesis a little too far. It's one thing to agree on hunting pressure lowering the number of elite animals, and it's another to claim the genetic pool dwindles. I'm not rambling about, but that's like saying just because my parents and grandparents were 5' nothing, I'm a freak of nature at 6+ a good chunk. No, it just means that the crazy genes from one of my grand-grandfather's 2m height found the perfect habitat, nurture to allow me to get here.

It's one thing to correlate "big horn occurrence" to lack of pressure two/four legged, but to go as to claim the gene pool is heading to thin/small horns, to me it sounds a little ...

It was a wonderful read, but I disagree with the premise hypothesized.

Your height is not under selective pressure... If big people were under some sort of selective pressure - i.e. only short people get the ice cream - you would be screwed. Short people would have the advantage. If ice cream was critical to survival - and for some people, it is - then tall people would be at a genetic disadvantage and if you pass on tall genes to your offspring, they too would be ice cream-less. But if that one offspring of yours has short genes, they would survive and hopefully pass on short genes to their kin. Over time, there are fewer tall ice cream eating genes in the genetic pool...

[Xenomorph]

Your height is not under selective pressure... If big people were under some sort of selective pressure - i.e. only short people get the ice cream - you would be screwed. Short people would have the advantage. If ice cream was critical to survival - and for some people, it is - then tall people would be at a genetic disadvantage and if you pass on tall genes to your offspring, they too would be ice cream-less. But if that one offspring of yours has short genes, they would survive and hopefully pass on short genes to their kin. Over time, there are fewer tall ice cream eating genes in the genetic pool...


Correct me if I am wrong, but this hyphothesis is not supported by any genetic material testing over the observed amount of time, is it? If it has, I stand corrected. If it's inferences based on horn size manifestations it sounds to me more like a time issue for the animal to develop due to the RH, GO, FN and natural hunters, rather than gene pool sliding down.

Say I am a big Ram with World Record genes in my blood. The BIG RAM muscling me off the females just got shot, I'm not legal yet, my horn is small, but I still bang every ewe in the heard. GENE hasn't gone for icecream. Next year I AM LEGAL and an asshole finds me BANG! FLOP! I am dead. I know, I am a prick, but supposedly we shut down sheep hunting for 10 years. Nobody, I mean nobody but animal hunting touches them. Do you think any of these studies would stand up?

[Red_Mist]

my comment is more on how information is portrayed by media. i dont differeniate hunters. whether you hunt for meat or horns im not bothered by it. you hunt with bow or rifle. hunt with dogs etc all fine by me. since the ndp took over alberta all i see from cbc is bashing gun owners, wolf hunting and now sheep hunting. mayb present the study and have a comment from thier wild life federation or one of the sheep conservation groups. thats all

in terms of the actual study i havent had a chance to read it but im not sure it makes sense to me. wouldnt dominant rams be passing on thier genetic material anyways? at a first read they make it sound like every ram gets shot the moment its a legal full curl.

[brian]

I pasted some quotes from the study below to answer your questions. Also note this is not a study of Rams everywhere, it is specific to Rams in Alberta and can be used to inform their hunting regulations if they want to regulate for trophy size. They noted Rams in BC were not subject to the same size reduction in horn length owing to more conservative regulations on what is a harvestable ram.


Therefore, it should not be surprising to find an effect of artificial selection over about 3-4 generations of bighorn sheep, given that rams with 4/5-curl horn faced a 40% yearly probability of being shot and that the negative selective pressure through hunting started 2-3 years before large-horned rams could achieve high reproductive success



The decline in male horn length breeding values appeared to stop when hunting pressure was greatly reduced. While horn length declined during the hunting period, female horn base, a trait not subjected to trophy hunting and with low genetic correlation (0.189) to male horn length (Table 2), did not decline, supporting the contention that the decline in horn length was partly due to artificial selection. Further, female horn length and male horn base, traits genetically correlated to male horn length but not under selection, showed responses similar to male horn length. Overall, these results provide compelling evidence of a response to artificial selection while refuting the hypothesis that the observed changes were entirely caused by changes in environment.

[Fred1]

Find the interview on the subject that was on CBC this morning. It may answer some of the doubts and questions that the article doesn't/didn't cover. The on radio interview was more explanatory...

[Walking Buffalo]

Brian,

The research claiming hunting induced genetic selection in Alberta Bighorn Sheep is unsupported and has failed peer review.

This is an anti-"trophy" hunting agenda being pushed by a group of wildlife managers that first made their stance on "Trophy" hunting known well before compiling any data.

Making the science fit the theory....

Did you know that the BC Bighorn full curl regulation was implemented for this very concern as endorsed by this group?
Did you know that these same biologists are claiming that the current BC regulations are causing harm to the sheep, despite having an actual harvest rate of 1% when managers state harvest rates of 3% are sustainable?
They are now calling for further restrictions in BC bighorn hunting; shorter seasons, more closed areas, less GOS seasons and more LEH.

The hunting community needs to take the blinders off when facing these types of scientists. They are using un-veted and unsubstantiated conclusions to
eliminate hunting as a wildlife management tool.

[Vladimir Poutine]

"in terms of the actual study i havent had a chance to read it but im not sure it makes sense to me."

Well that made sense, only it didn't . Sheesh

[tuner]

Change the criteria, problem solved, we see the same thing happening in 4point only mule deer areas, where you frequently run into old mature bucks that are only two or most often,huge three points.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Also coincides with 40 years of fire suppression.

[Ride Red]

Your height is not under selective pressure... If big people were under some sort of selective pressure - i.e. only short people get the ice cream - you would be screwed. Short people would have the advantage. If ice cream was critical to survival - and for some people, it is - then tall people would be at a genetic disadvantage and if you pass on tall genes to your offspring, they too would be ice cream-less. But if that one offspring of yours has short genes, they would survive and hopefully pass on short genes to their kin. Over time, there are fewer tall ice cream eating genes in the genetic pool...

Well, I'm 6'5" and don't really like ice cream so I'm good.

[bearvalley]

There's a draft Management Plan for Alberta Bighorn Sheep that came out in June 2015. It mentions that horn size could "possibly" be reduced due to trophy hunting. The draft goes on to say that other factors could be the cause of Bighorn rams growing less horn. Climate change and sheep population densities were also named as
"possible" reasons for the reduction in horn growth.
It seems strange that CBC wouldn't mention that high numbers of sheep in an area might cause horn growth on rams to shrink slightly.
I would say CBCs story is their misinterpretation of a theory.

[Mishka]

Find the interview on the subject that was on CBC this morning. It may answer some of the doubts and questions that the article doesn't/didn't cover. The on radio interview was more explanatory...

I heard the tail end of the interview this morning. The fellow didn't come across as anti-hunting. I wish I heard the whole thing.

[2chodi]

I heard the tail end of the interview this morning. The fellow didn't come across as anti-hunting. I wish I heard the whole thing.

I am not sure how many interviews professor Coltman did, but here is one of them:

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2682353112/

[scoutlt1]

Just more crap that's thrown out there by the "politically correct" CBC, who incessantly "report" on "science-based" bull***t.
Merely more useless taxpayer $$$ contributing to the "death by a thousand cuts" to not just "trophy" hunting, but hunting in all forms.

Re-read the last six paragraphs of the article. Absolute anti-hunting. Or maybe just read the last one....."According to Coltman, Albertans need to hunt fewer rams, re-examine size requirements or adjust the timing of the hunting season to allow more rams to reach maturity".

"or adjust the timing of the hunting season to allow more rams to reach maturity".......

Yeah....now that makes sense.... :confused:

"Hang on folks!!! Don't shoot that ram until next week....because by then he will reach sexual maturity and he'll be able to pass on his awesome full-curl genes".


blah f***ing blah.....

[Walking Buffalo]

Marco Festa-Bianche has been working for years with David Coltman in trying to eliminate "Trophy" hunting.

Their main strategy to effect this change is a long term endeavour, to chip away at season lengths, legal hunting areas, and further restrictions on legal definitions of hunt able animals.

Read Chapter 12 (page 191) for some insight into their vision of a new "Compassionate" wildlife management model to replace the current "Exploitive" model that includes hunting.

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar_url?url=http://dlx.bookzz.org/genesis/463000/e3c19b4a02ce004b6662c495abdcc54b/_as/%5BMarco_Festa-Bianchet,_Marco_Apollonio%5D_Animal_Beh(BookZZ.org ).pdf%23page%3D202&hl=en&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm1BQ6wDSltEeKqXhTIueVjcXPwVlA&nossl=1&oi=scholarr&ved=0ahUKEwivxuy5xLzKAhVJ_mMKHTEUCwcQgAMIGygBMAA

Here in Alberta, we are in year six of discussing/consulting a new sheep management plan and hunting regulations. It wasn't until last year that the public stakeholders were finally allowed access to the horn size data used by Coltman and Bianchet.

Bianchet determined that rams had shrunk 3%.

An independant review by several biologists found the same data to show a 1% variance.

An pure statistical analysis revealed that there was 0 (Zero) change when the un-supported PDO (pacific decadal oscillation) factor was removed from the biological evaluation.


And now Coleman is saying that Rams have shrunk by over 20%.


And NONE of these data valuations can identify or support any quantification as to the cause or degree of cause of any potential horn size reduction be it genetic, phenology, climate, habitat, herd density.... or that butterfly in China.

[Apolonius]

CBC would never publish anything that would even remotely portrayed the hunting community in a positive way.But "anti hunting " in a split second.They couldn't care about who wrote ,what, as long as it is restricting hunting opportunities.Plus they KNOW,hunters are not big time CBC supporters.Anything to screw up us.For them is payback time.

[boxhitch]

Dredging up old stories to make news is another CBC game

Here is a great rebuttal to the whole trophy/selection theory by Dr.Valerius Geist (dated 2009 8) ) a very straight shooter
Its a long read but shows how he is thorough .
http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/01/19/rebuttal-dr-valerius-geist-responds-to-newsweek-article-on-trophy-hunting/

excerpt-

On the matter of trophy hunting the public was thoroughly misled. However, trophy hunting, the problems it generates, as well as effective mitigating measures, have a very long, detailed history (see my attached draft to Nature). We are well informed about it. What was presented in the news media is not merely highly selective, distorted material, and therefore poor scholarship by the scientists involved, but smacks of deliberate advocacy. - See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/01/19/rebuttal-dr-valerius-geist-responds-to-newsweek-article-on-trophy-hunting/#sthash.6FvfvdlW.dpuf

[Andrewh]

Correct me if I am wrong but regardless of when a ram breeds a ewe, his genetics are being passed on. The argument that the 'big horns' gene is being removed was contradicted in the article. The article says that as soon as hunting subsided, the horns/rams became larger. The means that the rams HAVE the 'big trophy horn' genetic trait or whatever they want to call it. Too many uncontrolled variables in this study such as habitat, nutrition etc.

ONLY way to have this study actually mean something is for them to determine what gene was/is responsible for 'trophy sized' horns and test to see if rams presently contain it.

Pretty sure if I had the genetics of a 6'5" person and my dad was also that tall that I would be passing that gene onto my child regardless of when I get a girl pregnant. If I breed at 14yr before I stop growing vs 28yr when I have stopped growing, the same genes/traits are passed on to my offspring right???

Does this not happen with sheep and all other wildlife too?

[Fisher-Dude]

Geist says these anti-hunting guys are full of shit who claim that horn size is shrinking.

http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/01/19/rebuttal-dr-valerius-geist-responds-to-newsweek-article-on-trophy-hunting/

That's all I need to know.

[wideopenthrottle]

that was one of the things in there that I had the biggest trouble believing outright..it said something like rams don't breed until after their horns are of legal size... does anyone else with experience have a good feel for the age of a full curl ram?...I found this note on age here


http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/bighorn.pdfMost ewes do not breed until they are two years
old, but where nutritional conditions are very good,
a few may breed as yearlings. Rams are physiologically
capable of breeding by two years of age, but they
usually have to stay on the sidelines
until they are seven or eight
years old.



males do not usually mate until they are seven years old. Younger males will mate sooner if dominant rams in their group are killed. (Festa-Bianchet, 1999 (http://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Ovis_canadensis/#91ab87a87ed0bee9cef38e18940e6b5e))
males do not usually mate until they are seven years old. Younger males will mate sooner if dominant rams in their group are killed. (Festa-Bianchet, 1999 (http://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Ovis_canadensis/#91ab87a87ed0bee9cef38e18940e6b5e))

[Xenomorph]

Correct me if I am wrong but regardless of when a ram breeds a ewe, his genetics are being passed on. The argument that the 'big horns' gene is being removed was contradicted in the article. The article says that as soon as hunting subsided, the horns/rams became larger. The means that the rams HAVE the 'big trophy horn' genetic trait or whatever they want to call it. Too many uncontrolled variables in this study such as habitat, nutrition etc.

ONLY way to have this study actually mean something is for them to determine what gene was/is responsible for 'trophy sized' horns and test to see if rams presently contain it.

Pretty sure if I had the genetics of a 6'5" person and my dad was also that tall that I would be passing that gene onto my child regardless of when I get a girl pregnant. If I breed at 14yr before I stop growing vs 28yr when I have stopped growing, the same genes/traits are passed on to my offspring right???

Does this not happen with sheep and all other wildlife too?

That's my issue with the whole "study", it's built around an agenda instead of being statistically significant reported science. I'm disgusted to be honest, people aren't being taught to think and research, they're being trained to react like a flock of sheep ..."move there", say "AH!" "OH!" "Trophy hunters, killers!"



Geist says these anti-hunting guys are full of shit who claim that horn size is shrinking.

Way more eloquently put than what I would've managed.

[Ltbullken]

Brian,

The research claiming hunting induced genetic selection in Alberta Bighorn Sheep is unsupported and has failed peer review.

This is an anti-"trophy" hunting agenda being pushed by a group of wildlife managers that first made their stance on "Trophy" hunting known well before compiling any data.

Making the science fit the theory....

Did you know that the BC Bighorn full curl regulation was implemented for this very concern as endorsed by this group?
Did you know that these same biologists are claiming that the current BC regulations are causing harm to the sheep, despite having an actual harvest rate of 1% when managers state harvest rates of 3% are sustainable?
They are now calling for further restrictions in BC bighorn hunting; shorter seasons, more closed areas, less GOS seasons and more LEH.

The hunting community needs to take the blinders off when facing these types of scientists. They are using un-veted and unsubstantiated conclusions to
eliminate hunting as a wildlife management tool.

Failed peer review? Source please.

[Ltbullken]

Correct me if I am wrong but regardless of when a ram breeds a ewe, his genetics are being passed on. The argument that the 'big horns' gene is being removed was contradicted in the article. The article says that as soon as hunting subsided, the horns/rams became larger. The means that the rams HAVE the 'big trophy horn' genetic trait or whatever they want to call it. Too many uncontrolled variables in this study such as habitat, nutrition etc.

ONLY way to have this study actually mean something is for them to determine what gene was/is responsible for 'trophy sized' horns and test to see if rams presently contain it.

Pretty sure if I had the genetics of a 6'5" person and my dad was also that tall that I would be passing that gene onto my child regardless of when I get a girl pregnant. If I breed at 14yr before I stop growing vs 28yr when I have stopped growing, the same genes/traits are passed on to my offspring right???

Does this not happen with sheep and all other wildlife too?


The problem with this argument is that you as a sheep are not getting to breed at 14 and as your height is legal then, it is being culled from the population before you can breed to pass on the genetics for tallness (or horn size in this instance). The ones that are able to breed are the ones with genetics for smallness because they are surviving longer.

[Xenomorph]

The problem with this argument is that you as a sheep are not getting to breed at 14 and as your height is legal then, it is being culled from the population before you can breed to pass on the genetics for tallness (or horn size in this instance). The ones that are able to breed are the ones with genetics for smallness because they are surviving longer.

But a sheep breeding at 2 years old or 14-15 years old has absolutely 0 to do with thickness and size of the horns, the gene is there, the external factor is what is statistically significant here.

Just because a thinned horned ram survives longer doesn't guarantee he's breeding any ewes. He would still have to muscle out the thicker horned rams, and we both know when they go head to head a thicker horn always helps win the day.

I don't want to dismiss the whole research, it would be unrealistic and irrational, but to me it comes as agenda based instead of pure scientific endeavor.

[Ltbullken]

But a sheep breeding at 2 years old or 14-15 years old has absolutely 0 to do with thickness and size of the horns, the gene is there, the external factor is what is statistically significant here.

Just because a thinned horned ram survives longer doesn't guarantee he's breeding any ewes. He would still have to muscle out the thicker horned rams, and we both know when they go head to head a thicker horn always helps win the day.

I don't want to dismiss the whole research, it would be unrealistic and irrational, but to me it comes as agenda based instead of pure scientific endeavor.

But the thick horned Rams have been hunted off aggressively. Their genes are no longer in the gene pool. Trophy hunting is not the culprit. Piss poor wildlife management is.

[Ltbullken]

Unfortunately, using the term 'trophy hunting' is a real misnomer. It is hunting for mature legal rams. I guess it seems more sensational to use 'trophy hunting.'

[Xenomorph]

But the thick horned Rams have been hunted off aggressively. Their genes are no longer in the gene pool. Trophy hunting is not the culprit. Piss poor wildlife management is.

As much as I agree with variation and some incidental affect, is this "gene is out" based on factual gene ID count, or just an inference on external manifestation? Ultimately, that's my issue, the fact they're making an absolute claim the gene is out, when consideration should be given to external factors, hunting pressure or as rightly mentioned "piss poor wildlife management".

Cheers bud.

[curt]

I don't completely disagree if you are constantly harvesting the biggest and the best eventually the genetics will be watered down it only makes sense no different in the fishing world years and years of harvesting the monster tyhee they are getting much smaller these days! its a reality

[bearvalley]

On a 4/5's curl ram harvest where horn size appears to be shrinking my thought would be that it is not so much that the biggest & best are being taken out but moreso too many rams are being harvested.
. It's a case of wildlife managers trying to maximize oppurtunities and at the same time manage sheep thru horn classification.
The alternatives to reverse the damage done by the 4/5's curl harvest ( if this is what is causing reduced horn size) would be to go to a strictly Full curl regulation ( and leave some broomed off, heavy horned rams as breeding stock) or go to a permit (LEH type system) and take out a certain limited number of rams.
I will probably get rocks thrown at me over this but I'm leaning towards the belief that there would be a healthier band of sheep on the mountain if we could ever get away from the max harvest of big rams and go to a system of reduced opportunity but being able to harvest a sheep (regardless of size).
This will only work with extensive inventory being done and a limited targeted harvest set.
The gene for horn growth is carried by the ewes as much as the rams...so it will remain in the band of sheep. The fastest way to bring back bigger horns in a band of sheep that has been slightly genetically altered would be to reduce the number of smaller horned rams and leave some bruisers. The big sheep and the ewes will look after the problem....to cease hunting them will not.
This same debate could eventually apply to mountain caribou here in BC due to the 5 on top plus a kicker rule. Will we eventually have a bunch of bull caribou that are untouchable because their antlers are hockey sticks.

[boxhitch]

This might make some sense of one considered that all of the big rams were killed every year but that is never the case. There is always some escapement.
With a target harvest at less than 2 % of any population , there is lots of breeding stock left , and a batch of new big rams with every years growth.

The same reasoning shoots holes in the misguided theory that 4 point selection in mule deer leads to only 3 point bucks. Hunters get too much credit , and will never take out enough of a given class of critter to say it is gone.

[bearvalley]

I completely agree that with a 2% harvest there will be no problem. Where a genetic selection for a trait could "possibly occur" is in the case of an excessive over harvest.
Harvest rates in Alberta are 40% greater than the average of other Northwestern jurisdictions. In parts of the Alberta study area 90% of the annual recruitment of legal Rams "are/were" being harvested. Combine that with the 4/5s horn rule.
This is different sheep management than we have in BC.
As for the 4 point selection in mule deer creating more 3 point bucks, I agree it won't happen. Nowhere do we have or will we have a strictly 4 point season in BC. The FN's hunters will see to that....right or wrong.
The gene for good horn growth in an over harvested population of wildlife will never be gone...but it could be diminished.
It's no different than breeding horses, cows or dogs....you can genetically select to have more of a trait and you can get less of another.