Cheap vs Premium Ammo on Perfect Shots

[GROOTSKY]

I've shot several deer & moose using both 7mm with Barnes TSX/TTSX & my .308 with Remington Core Lokt. All have been nice broadside shots and all have been kills, but on almost every occasion the animal seems to travel farther with the premium bullet as opposed to the cheapo shell that piles them up on the spot.

I'm assuming it's due to the extra trauma created by a bullet that is doing more damage by not holding together as well as the premium bullet.

[Xenomorph]

I think it's shot placement more than how much the bullet opens/mushrooms. What I found with premium bullets is consistency. Same spot hit, same animal behaviour bang/flop.

One issue I found with the CoreLokt is from 2 test boxes of 150 grains 5 were duds. I kid you not, couldn't believe it myself so I retried, rifle cold, retried, misfire.

Hornady SSTs 165g ones, not an issue, they do come apart more if animal under 50 yards, but I can count on rifle/bullet doing their job if I do mine. Not saying I wouldn't try cheaper ammo, in the end you use whatever works. For me the SSTs gave the best results so far, for my 30-06

[SSG-man]

Other variables maybe Distance etc

[Sharpish]

I have found the same thing grootsky ... I shot two deer this year, same size, same range (60 yards) , with near identical shot placement. One was with a 30-30 with federal blue box (cheap) and the other with 7mm rem mag with 150 tsx hot handloads. The 30-30 deer travelled about 10 feet and was dead when i climbed the hill 2 minutes later. The 7mag deer travelled about 200 yards and was a bitch to find. I was expected the 7mag to backflip the deer ... I'm sure there was lots of expansion from the barnes at 3200fps muzzle speed. Both deer had exit wounds and no bullet recovery. But the 30-30 deer had more trauma to the lungs, I think the soft lead deforms massively and probably left the animal relatively slowly while the 7mag buried itself in the hill at 2000 fps.

[Gateholio]

On perfect broadside shots,bullets that blow up entirely or partially usually drop animals faster.

Bullets like the TTSX are for when not everything goes right or you want to bust bone and/or reduce bloodshot. Or turn a little gun into a big gun.

[GROOTSKY]

Usually under 100 yards, I do alot of hunting from stands & blinds so I'm able to avoid shoulder shots, the core lokt consistently puts toonie sized entry/exit holes. I agree that a premium bullet will allow for more variables but that big chunk of flattening lead sure puts things down in a hurry.

[Keta1969]

I've gone away from using all copper bullets because of personal experience like yours. I don't want to aim at a shoulder just to get a bullet to expand. SST's,Accubonds and partitions are what I'm using now, don't mind recovering a bullet in an animal as that's where I think the energy should be spent.

[Foxton Gundogs]

It is what ever your rifle likes, I have rifles that love $25 a box ammo and others that insist on $70+ bullets.

[Useyourfeet]

I have gone back to traditional bullets as well (partition, accubond and a frame), the ttsx shot really well I just didn't see the same knockdown that I had in the past.

[Sharpish]

I prefer the performance of premium lead bullets, but I worry about my kids ingesting lead fragments. If it was just me eating the animal, I wouldn't care, but I don't need a 5 year old swallowing a big chunk of lead and knocking his IQ down 10 points. So I almost always use Barnes.

[Fisher-Dude]

I've killed lots of moose, elk and deer with cheapo CoreLokts, never had a problem with them. If you want a "premium" label, then get the CoreLokt Ultra-Bonded, they work great too.

There's a reason why CoreLokts are the world's best-selling hunting rifle ammunition - they just plain work.

[GROOTSKY]

Fisher-dude, have you ever had a problem with core lokt not holding together? I've had great luck on mulies but I've never tried on elk.

[RackStar]

I have had good luck with my tsx.
But a friend of mine who has shot many many deer made fun of me for having blue tipped bullets this year.
He shot one deer with them this year and he said it was the first deer he ever shot in the neck that got up and started walking. In 20 years of hunting. He swears by federal blue even more now that a "fancy" bullet never performed as well as the cheap ones. I'm stuck in a pickle. I may move to regular ammo

[Fisher-Dude]

Fisher-dude, have you ever had a problem with core lokt not holding together? I've had great luck on mulies but I've never tried on elk.

Never. All the elk I've shot with CoreLokts were stone dead within a few seconds of the shot. Some of those shots hit shoulder too, as the elk were coming into calls quartering to me. The bullets passed through muscle and bone and took out the vitals, as they are designed to, each time.

I've used them for elk in 180 gr in 300 Win Mag and 175 gr in 7mm Rem Mag.

I've also killed moose and deer with 180 gr in 308 Win. My old man killed dozens of elk and moose with CoreLokts in his 308.

[hoochie]

I prefer the performance of premium lead bullets, but I worry about my kids ingesting lead fragments. If it was just me eating the animal, I wouldn't care, but I don't need a 5 year old swallowing a big chunk of lead and knocking his IQ down 10 points. So I almost always use Barnes.

are you being serious?

[TARCHER]

I have to say I've gone back to lead core for deer as the last 3 I shot with barnes tsx and tsx tipped side thru side under 100 yds from my 300 wsm took off and I had to find them. That said i'm still packing the tsx tipped around for moose and elk so I can try them for myself. Killed dozens with partitions, only switched because...........

[savagecanuck]

It is what ever your rifle likes, I have rifles that love $25 a box ammo and others that insist on $70+ bullets.
X2 find out what your rifle groups the best with and sight in for that ammo and work on shot placement.
Both my bucks this year never took a step as both were well placed neck shots.My WT buck went straight down with a 45gr bullet from a 223.
Switching ammo can also significantly change your POI.Stick with what groups the best and use it. I don't waste a lot of money on premium ammo ,federal blue box kills very well.

[Sharpish]

are you being serious?

Yes I am ... I did a fair amount of research. And I'm probably being way over the top concerned. But I still don't like the idea of kids swallowing lead. Not good for the developing brain.

[NorthShoreX]

Yes I am ... I did a fair amount of research. And I'm probably being way over the top concerned. But I still don't like the idea of kids swallowing lead. Not good for the developing brain.

Speaking of lead poisoning, did you hear about Flint, Michigan? Whole city's water system is contaminated.

[TARCHER]

Speaking of lead poisoning, did you hear about Flint, Michigan? Whole city's water system is contaminated.
Enough to give you a sinking feeling.

[finngun]

one year 80 m deer perfect shoulder shot federal didn t die till after 200m ..find next day....30-06...broke to a pieces...after that only tsx or ttsx,,no problems so far..

[TARCHER]

one year 80 m deer perfect shoulder shot federal didn t die till after 200m ..find next day....30-06...broke to a pieces...after that only tsx or ttsx,,no problems so far..At 80 m on a deer, why a shoulder shot. Come back a bit thru the lungs and save some good meat? just sayin

[HarryToolips]

I think it's shot placement more than how much the bullet opens/mushrooms. What I found with premium bullets is consistency. Same spot hit, same animal behaviour bang/flop.

One issue I found with the CoreLokt is from 2 test boxes of 150 grains 5 were duds. I kid you not, couldn't believe it myself so I retried, rifle cold, retried, misfire.

Hornady SSTs 165g ones, not an issue, they do come apart more if animal under 50 yards, but I can count on rifle/bullet doing their job if I do mine. Not saying I wouldn't try cheaper ammo, in the end you use whatever works. For me the SSTs gave the best results so far, for my 30-06
Weird, I've shot hundreds of Core Lokt ammo, and have yet to have a dud..

[two-feet]

Fed blue box works for me. My rifle and wallet both love it.

[M.Dean]

I find that for the animals I hunt, a less expensive type bullet like the Hornady line up work just fine. I've taken many many animals over the years, and can't say I lost one due to bullet failure. And what I have found out is that "some hunters", none of you guys of course! When they make a real shitty shot and end up wounding a nice buck at 75 yards cuz they hit it through the belly and it died 2 days later behind some old log pile, the first thing they scream is "Bullet Failure"!!! And it doesn't matter what type of bullet it was they make the shitty shot with, there all "Junk"!!! To them! I've found that if you can put a bullet into most animals here in B.C., other than a pissed off Grizz, where it's going to take out the heart, lungs, neck or brain, that animal's going to fall pretty quickly. And if I could afford to target practice with super duper solid golden bullets, I would, but I can't afford that! Are the more expensive bullets better? Yes they are, but there just that, "Expensive"! I try to get out shooting at every chance I get, so firing off 20 or 30 rounds in a afternoon is common practice, with the less expensive bullets. I've got friends with RUM's and Weatherby Mag's, and a H&H 375, and there limit's about 2 or 3 bullets at the beginning of the year because of the price of bullets for those canons! I know of a few guys that after spending top dollars for those rifles, went and bought 270's or Ott 6's just so they can fire off a lot of bullets at the range without taking out a loan on the farm to buy bullets! So, yes the higher priced bullets are better than the cheaper ones, but do you really need a 220 grain solid bullet to kill a Mulie or White tail deer??? I know I don't.

[mod7rem]

I think there are specific circumstances where a premium bullet design will out do a standard, whether its penetrating or long range bullet. But in my hunting experience those circumstances are so rare. My brother and I have been hunting together for over 15 yrs, I've always handloaded and mostly use premiums(tsx, ttsx, partition, etc). He shoots a 30-06 and has always used blue box federal classic 180's. We've both shot multiples of moose, elk, caribou, stone sheep, goats, deer and antelope at ranges from 20 to 420 yds and I've never seen any real reason to shoot one bullet over another other than accuracy. I think any hunter could use the bullet that is consistently the most accurate in his rifle (with appropriate cartridge and bullet weight) and never have any problems. The best marketing BS there is in favor of premium bullets is, "compared to cost of rifle, scope and hunt, premiums are cheap" and also the "what if its a once in a lifetime animal and the only shot available is a sketchy one" " premiums bullets are cheap insurance".
Simple marketing and we all fall for it, me included:) Not my brother, he just keeps killing sh#t year after year with cheap factory ammo.

[Fisher-Dude]

Yes I am ... I did a fair amount of research. And I'm probably being way over the top concerned. But I still don't like the idea of kids swallowing lead. Not good for the developing brain.

You have a point there. They could end up voting for Trudeau if they ingest lots and lots of lead.

[REMINGTON JIM]

You have a point there. They could end up voting for Trudeau if they ingest lots and lots of lead.

LMFFAO ! or worst Yet ! Mulcair ! :sad: RJ

[boxhitch]

For the perfect shot either type can be used , but using a premium bullet allows the recoil sensitve shooter to use a lighter-for-caliber bullet, which may improve shot placement.
Use enough gun or use enough bullet

[Xenomorph]

Weird, I've shot hundreds of Core Lokt ammo, and have yet to have a dud..

3 one box, 2 in the other, both bought at the same store. I checked everything, feed, cleanliness, rifle hot/cold... nada. They were duds. Rifle was brand new. I got two packs of 150g CoreLokt to test the accuracy and sight in the rifle. SSTs on the other hand once sighted in it's been bang on ever since. And with good results.

I'm willing to try more ammo, but the 5 duds in two packs were a little much.




You have a point there. They could end up voting for Trudeau if they ingest lots and lots of lead.

I think most people who voted for him were sick and tired of the PC corruption and lack of vision, and were looking for a better alternative to Mulcair. If you have someone better in mind please do let me know.

On that note, if Rona Ambrose had been running instead of Old Faithful, we'd be talking at a different tune now.

[GROOTSKY]

I think that a premium/copper bullet acts alot like a broadhead if it doesn't encounter bone, it cuts through leaving a nice wound channel & exit hole. On the other hand with the lead bullet mushrooming quicker & maybe expanding more there is more disruption internally resulting in quicker kills

[TARCHER]

I think that a premium/copper bullet acts alot like a broadhead if it doesn't encounter bone, it cuts through leaving a nice wound channel & exit hole. On the other hand with the lead bullet mushrooming quicker & maybe expanding more there is more disruption internally resulting in quicker kills

It's really all about the energy release and hydrostatic shock.

[sausage lover]

My first bear dropped within 10 yards shot with 150 grain ballistic tip. Quick kill with giant exit hole and some blood shot meat. Second bear much larger shot with 150 grain gmx mono bullet crawled 30 yards through logs untill I could hit him again in the shoulder! They were broadside boiler room shots but the mono bullet took longer to kill but did little meat damage.

[Salty]

I have had good luck with my tsx.
But a friend of mine who has shot many many deer made fun of me for having blue tipped bullets this year.
He shot one deer with them this year and he said it was the first deer he ever shot in the neck that got up and started walking. In 20 years of hunting. He swears by federal blue even more now that a "fancy" bullet never performed as well as the cheap ones. I'm stuck in a pickle. I may move to regular ammo

A neck shot is far from a gimme for success. The vertebrae of a deer's neck make up a fairly small percentage of the mass of the neck, miss the vertebrae and there's a good chance its not a lethal shot right away if at all unless a major artery is hit.

My 2 cents on this question is a cheaper cup and core bullet will probably kill a little faster due to the explosive expansion compared to a premium bullet that will hold together on a perfect broadside shot. But I don't care if the deer goes 10 yards or 50 yards after a perfect broadside, the deer is dead either way with adrenaline allowing a few extra strides one way or the other.

[wideopenthrottle]

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/bonded-vs-non-bonded-bullets/

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Game+Killing+Fundamentals.html

these are some helpful links I keep bookmarked

[Gateholio]

I've had DRT kills with TSX,TSX, Barnes X, Partitions, regular cup and core, Accunonds, Bsllistic Tips and others.

Also had animals run a bit with all of them. And spectacular blow up failures with Ballistic Tips, too. In the end, they all died. I like the extra insurance of any shot I want ability, so I pick the premiums. The added cost of $50 a year for hunting bullets is meaningless to me. Most of the bullets I shoot at the range are much less expensive.

No lead shrapnel is a real bonus too.

[huntcoop]

Why anyone would hunt with lead when copper is readily available is beyond me.

[Gateholio]

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/bonded-vs-non-bonded-bullets/

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Game+Killing+Fundamentals.html

these are some helpful links I keep bookmarked

These guys called Robert Ruark "O'Rourke". :)

[chris]

This year I tried cheap federal blue box for the first time. 2 deer and one bear. All died from one shot but on one deer the bullet fragmented and resulted in 2 exit holes and what I would consider a bit of excess waste. However everything died. All easy shots though at less than 150 yds. I tried them in my 30/06 as a cheap target round and the accuracy was really good so gave them a try for hunting.

[Mikey Rafiki]

Most anywhere I hunt there is a good chance of running into a grizz. I want a bullet that will run through a grizz, or a good portion of it, because they don't often give you great broadside boiler room shots when they want to bite your face. 200 grain TSX or Partition for me.

[Ltbullken]

I've moose shot through the lungs pile up in a couple steps with a 308 & 165 Sierra Gameking. I've had moose go for a run with 165 TSX needing another shot. Having said that, I had an elk lung shot go DRT with 1 shot from a TSX - head twitch and that was all. The TSX doesn't create as big a wound channel as a conventional but will give ample penetration. If I shot the moose in the shoulder with the TSX, it would probably pile up on the spot. But I don't like the resultant meat damage that comes from a shot through shoulders, so I go for a lung shot. I still use the TSX because it is accurate and will still perform well if it strikes bone. It's a trade off.

[Weatherby Fan]

It's really all about the energy release and hydrostatic shock.

Now your talking TARCHER......that's why I love Weatherby Cartridges/Calibers, One shot kills as if they were struck by lightning :mrgreen:

[Brno22F]

Fisher-dude, have you ever had a problem with core lokt not holding together? I've had great luck on mulies but I've never tried on elk.

I did. On a moose. Bullet lost its core. I still have the jacket somewhere. It hit a twig and tumbled and hit the moose broadside as far as I can tell. The jacket of the bullet was recovered from the moose heart. The core disintegrated.
I bought a box of bulk 308 cal 180 grain CoreLockt years ago. Box of 1000 projectiles. Still shooting them in my '06. I have taken 5 moose with them. I only had the one issue with the lost core. The rest are the "deadliest mushroom in the woods" as the Remington ads say.
Same goes for all of the game I have taken with Hornady cup/core style bullets. Reliable bullets giving effective kills.
I haven't loaded up any TTSX yet but a friend who uses them has had great results. I have cut up 2 of his recent moose taken with the Barnes TTSX. Both were DeadRightThere shots. Way less meat damage than moose I have taken with CoreLockt bullets.

[Twogunns]

Check out a post by drache, titled, knockdown power.

[Fisher-Dude]

I killed 2 deer this year with Partitions (160 gr in 280 Ackley) and was impressed with the bullets' performance and the lack of bloodshot. Twoonie-sized exit holes and good blood trails, one broadside at 80 yards and the other quartering away at ~225 yards.

First time I have ever used NPs. They did very well. Two dead deer.

[elknut]

Thanks Wideopenthrottle ...Good read ..

[358mag]

I killed 2 deer this year with Partitions (160 gr in 280 Ackley) and was impressed with the bullets' performance and the lack of bloodshot. Twoonie-sized exit holes and good blood trails, one broadside at 80 yards and the other quartering away at ~225 yards.

First time I have ever used NPs. They did very well. Two dead deer.
Glad to see you used your bonus cheque and upgraded to some real time bullets !!! . There hope for you yet .:-P

[Fisher-Dude]

Glad to see you used your bonus cheque and upgraded to some real time bullets !!! . There hope for you yet .:-P

I'm going broke quickly, hoarding bullets like a crazy cat lady hoards Whiskas.

Hussein Obama and Selfie Boy are pushing us all to get what we can, where we can, for ammo and reloading components!

[finngun]

At 80 m on a deer, why a shoulder shot. Come back a bit thru the lungs and save some good meat? just sayin

yep but everything else was behind the tree..so take or leave it..8-)

[bcshadow]

I am a nosler partition devotee after switching from standard ammo. Performance in deer with 100gr partitions has been consistently excellent. For a bit more money, considering what the hunting trip costs overall, I like to have the ammo I feel is the best performer. I should add that with my 9.3x62 I use Prvi Partizan factory loads for practice, but switch to Swift A frames that costs over twice as much especially when it comes to hunting larger game in the field, i.e. Grizzly

[emerson]

Most anywhere I hunt there is a good chance of running into a grizz. I want a bullet that will run through a grizz, or a good portion of it, because they don't often give you great broadside boiler room shots when they want to bite your face. 200 grain TSX or Partition for me.
This also one of my motivations for premium bullets. Once I move up to a 375 I may go back to generic lead because a 270gn@2700+fps seems to work on grizzly whatever the brand. I've had an SST in a 30-06 explode on a medium black bear shoulder which made me wonder too.

[Dougielightning]

Personally seen core locks fail twice, once in my 7 m, once in a 7-08. Both primers had good hits. One was in a youths gun and turned out to be good practice.