Basics for newbie shotgunner

[Rickdakin]

I was looking for info on using 12 ga with slugs for black bear and deer . A local dealer told me it would be dangerous to use a full choke . He recommended open bore (no chokes) as best rig. I thought a full choke would increase accuracy out to 90 or 100 meters

Any advice appreciated folks

[tinhorse]

That is quite a poke for a slug. Is it a rifled shotgun you're using? I see accuracy being a bit of an issue. Just my thought on that distance.

[sparkes3]

get a shotgun with both a waterfowl barrel with different chokes and a rifled barrel foe sabot slugs
I use a Mossberg 835 and have the best of both worlds with the two barrels.

[BigD_83]

Just happened to have my Mossberg owners manual in front of me and they only specify that slugs should not be used at extra full or tighter constrictions. However, I don't see using a full choke giving you much advantage over a cylinder bore, and it's certainly not going to help you hit anything at the yardage you are talking. As has already been mentioned, a rifled barrel and a sabot slug are the way to go for your longer shots.

[albravo2]

Choke keeps a bunch of pellets in a smaller group when they leave the barrel, hence when they get further away they are still closer together.

A slug does not have the same reaction. It stays together because it is one big lead piece. As I understand it, the problem with a full choke and a slug is there may be unnecessary restriction at the muzzle.

Put another way, a slug may be slightly larger than the opening of a full choke which will effect its flight.

Rifled slug barrel is the way to go.

[hoochie]

as stated by others, chokes are for shot.
I have never thought of a shotgun as being a 100yard tool, and most shots would be done under 50 yards. A rifled barrel would be far more advantageous than a choke. However; if you have the rifled barrel on there it is essentially a rifle, and you don't have the advantage of the smooth bore. A smooth bore would allow you to shot whatever you choose, but distance will be limited.

[Foxton Gundogs]

We shot a pile of slugs out of our full choke back in the day with no Ill effects. I concur that 50 yds. is the optimum range for the average shotgun and slug. I have however seen shotguns with rifled slug barrel and a good grade sabot shell that will reach out to 100 yds fairly accurately

[Mulehahn]

A full choke won't cause any harm, but it won't help anything either. I personally would never shoot a shotgun with no choke at all, I would worry too much about damaging the threads. For certain shotguns you can buy a rifle choke that can help a little but I just use a modified.

[Rickdakin]

Thanks guys, havent purchased shotgun as yey but thinking pump 12 ga. And dealers told me some come with interchangeable chokes ( ie: rifled chokes that improve accuracy. Haven't been shown any with full rifled barrels like the Ithaca deerslayers had though. ��

[Rickdakin]

We shot a pile of slugs out of our full choke back in the day with no Ill effects. I concur that 50 yds. is the optimum range for the average shotgun and slug. I have however seen shotguns with rifled slug barrel and a good grade sabot shell that will reach out to 100 yds fairly accurately

thanks Jim

[E.B.]

Thanks guys, havent purchased shotgun as yey but thinking pump 12 ga. And dealers told me some come with interchangeable chokes ( ie: rifled chokes that improve accuracy. Haven't been shown any with full rifled barrels like the Ithaca deerslayers had though. ��
I have done a lot of shotgun slug shooting and yes a cylinder bore or modified will be most accurate with slugs however, if you purchase a smooth bore pump action with screw in choke options just put the improved or modified choke in it for shooting rifled slugs. They are quite accurate and will hold 4-5 inch groups at 100 yrds . The reason people think they are not accurate is because most are trying to do this with only a front bead for sighting. If you have front and rear iron sights or a red dot or scope they will absolutely group well at 100-125 yrds no problem. I have a 12, 16, and 20 gauge and they all can hit a pie plate at 100 yrds.

[dracb]

When one is talking about shotgun slugs, if one is not specifying which slug it is sort of like referring to apples, oranges and cumquats as fruit. There are various designs of slugs and perhaps an even wider range of shotguns to fire them from

Perhaps oldest surviving design (after the round ball) is the slug developed by Brenneke in the late 1890's. This is a cylinder shaped chunk of lead that was attached to a base wad which acts like a shuttlecock while the projectile is in flight. This designed is still one of the better ones and is still loaded in modern shotshells albeit with various modifications such as addition of various coatings, shallow vanes to induce rotation or reduce surface in contact with the barrel allowing a higher velocity (or to provide an easily deformable mass in case it is fired through a barrel with too much choke). The sold lead mass with sharp wadcutter front edges provided for deeper penetration. The Brenneke was a revolutionary change and increased shotgun range from the 25 or so yards of the round ball to 50 to 75 yards for sighted guns. There are numerous variants of this principle loaded in modern ammunition.

Perhaps operating under the theory that nothing can be made that can not be made cheaper Foster (re)invented in the 1930's the minnie ball for shotguns calling it the Foster Slug. The minnie ball dates from about 1860 and the muskets that fired it were essentially 20 to 12 gauge muzzle loading shotguns. The undersized hollow base projectiles were easy to load but on firing expanded to better fit the barrel providing better accuracy and easier loading as compared with round balls.

Foster Slug which can be thought of as a minnie ball for a shot gun. It is an undersize hollow based projectile cast of soft lead so that it can be fired in barrels with differing degrees of choke. British shotguns used to be marked at proof as usable with shot and ball or NOT FOR BALL in the event the barrels were choked. Lyman suggests the Foster Slug works best in smooth bore barrels with cylinder or improved cylinder choke. They also comment that performance is improved when fired in rifled barrels (with sights) when it is capable of hunting accuracy up to about 50 yards distant. Foster slugs are still loaded in some modern ammunition. The European hunter seem to believe the Brenneke slug provides better penetration. A belief shared by a number of Alsakan bear guides who use Brenneke loaded shotguns for backup guns.

More recent developments have seen the development of wasp waisted sabot type slugs which are primarily designed to be fired through rifled barrels while enclosed in a plastic wad which will be discarded in flight. The sabot slug is a ballistically superior projectile which Lyman comments provide useful hunting accuracy to 100 yards. Lyman is perhaps too conservative when stating maximum useful range. Gunsmiths and experimenters in the US and elsewhere have put together systems using sabots and much modified shotguns that provide good accuracy beyond 150 yards. The laws of physics do place severe limits over the distances shotgun slugs can provide useful energy.

Depending on the choices of gun and ammunition a shotgun can be challenged to be a reliable deer killer at 50 yards or with care and experimenting can probably be useful to at least 150 yards. By and large the bits and pieces required to produce a superior slug gun are available off the shelf.

[Singleshotneeded]

I was looking for info on using 12 ga with slugs for black bear and deer . A local dealer told me it would be dangerous to use a full choke . He recommended open bore (no chokes) as best rig. I thought a full choke would increase accuracy out to 90 or 100 meters

Any advice appreciated folks

Are you trying for a one gun for everything concept? Well Remington makes a rifled barrel with integral scope mount for sabot slugs that will get you to 150 yards accurately for deer and bears. You can use that for big game, then pop it off and pop on a 28" smoothbore barrel with medium choke installed for small game...carry the other barrel in your light packsack. If you happen on a deer, with the smooth barrel on, you can try to get a foster type slug in there before the buck spooks. Or, you can just use a smoothbore with cylinder, improved cylinder, or modified choke (try them all, one will give you the best accuracy with the slug you're using)...and you're good to 75 yards with a Brenneke (1st choice) or Tru-ball (2nd choice) slug. Swap to #6 lead for grouse. Full choke is generally safe to use with slugs in today's shotguns but a) I don't like the pressures involved, and b) the best accuracy comes from open to modified chokes as I mentioned earlier.