Optics and the US

[hparrott]

So I recently purchased a crossbow package (included a scope) in the US and had zero problems bringing it back into Canada. Barnett is mailing me a scope to my Can. address and I am wondering if I will ever receive it? I know you cannot bring a scope back for a firearm, and there were no issues with me getting the scope across when it was with the bow, but what about when it is mailed out separately?? Humm....I didn't think about this until after I got off the phone with them. Think I will ever see it?:shock:

[.264winmag]

Just a guess but if it's labelled/declared as a xbow scope you might be ok?

[BRvalley]

Interesting that you got the scope across, I'd guess you got extremely lucky, did they physically look at the scope?

as far as I understand it, ITAR doesn't differentiate between optics for rifles or crossbows, I remember a thread on the Excalibur forum and guys were complaining about it...considering Barnett is a big company, maybe they've taken care of their requirements to ship to you??? worth a phone call back to find out

[hparrott]

Interesting that you got the scope across, I'd guess you got extremely lucky, did they physically look at the scope?

as far as I understand it, ITAR doesn't differentiate between optics for rifles or crossbows, I remember a thread on the Excalibur forum and guys were complaining about it...considering Barnett is a big company, maybe they've taken care of their requirements to ship to you??? worth a phone call back to find out

As soon as the word crossbow came out of my mouth the pad was out for taxes. I anticipated I would be paying lol. Anyways, CBSA looked at the box contents when I took it inside. They only inquired about the grip and length. I'm curious how this is going to play out. I'd rather them ship it to me and fail than me bring it across and fail.

[Xenomorph]

So I recently purchased a crossbow package (included a scope) in the US and had zero problems bringing it back into Canada. Barnett is mailing me a scope to my Can. address and I am wondering if I will ever receive it? I know you cannot bring a scope back for a firearm, and there were no issues with me getting the scope across when it was with the bow, but what about when it is mailed out separately?? Humm....I didn't think about this until after I got off the phone with them. Think I will ever see it?:shock:

Who said you're not allowed to bring a Scope?



Importing Firearm Parts and Ammunition Prohibited ammunition or firearm parts that are classified as prohibited devices, including handgun barrels that are 105 mm or less in length or parts made exclusively for a fully automatic firearm, cannot be imported into Canada.
A valid firearms licence under Canadian law is not required to import non-prohibited firearm parts (except for a frame or receiver). However, an export permit from the other country may be required.
The Explosives Act (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/E-17/index.html) sets limits on the amount of ammunition and ammunition components that may be imported without an import permit. Generally, the Explosives Act allows individuals to import up to 5,000 cartridges of non-prohibited ammunition for personal use without an import permit.
More information is available on the website of Natural Resources Canada (http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/minerals-metals/explosives/3476) (NRCan), or by calling the Explosives Regulatory Division of NRCan at the appropriate number listed on their website. An import permit may be required for smaller amounts in order to comply with the laws of the exporting country.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/import-importer-eng.htm

[BRvalley]

It's not the RCMP or CBSA, it's US export laws

[KodiakHntr]

Its not our side that is the problem....

[hparrott]

It's not the RCMP or CBSA, it's US export laws

Interesting...so really they shouldn't be mailing it to me. Well, I'll see if it makes it to my door!

[Weatherby Fan]

It's not the RCMP or CBSA, it's US export laws

Optics are classified as Military Items which are regulated by Part 121 of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations( ITAR) only US citizens can buy or purchase in the USA, You can thank those Wingnut Bombers from 9/11 for helping form Homeland Security and all sorts of restrictions on firearms and optics !!!!

[JIL_24/7]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the restriction on scopes is actually from the US side. Canadian laws do not prohibit taking a scope in. US laws prohibit their export. If you get to the Canadian border you're fine, but if the US Border Patrol pulls you over prior to crossing then you are hooped. I don't do it now that I know it is against US laws, but I did bring in a scope to Canada before I was aware of the US restriction and I paid duty on it and everything. Not a single question was asked at the Canadian border.

[Weatherby Fan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the restriction on scopes is actually from the US side. Canadian laws do not prohibit taking a scope in. US laws prohibit their export. If you get to the Canadian border you're fine, but if the US Border Patrol pulls you over prior to crossing then you are hooped. I don't do it now that I know it is against US laws, but I did bring in a scope to Canada before I was aware of the US restriction and I paid duty on it and everything. Not a single question was asked at the Canadian border.

Yes you are correct, Canadian Border guys could care less, but you can buy them and ship through an FFL like a rifle, scopes cost $50 per item, Rifles are $250

[Xenomorph]

Yes you are correct, Canadian Border guys could care less, but you can buy them and ship through an FFL like a rifle, scopes cost $50 per item, Rifles are $250

Or you can have your dual citizenship buddy order and pick them up for you and avoid the hassle.

[BRvalley]

Or you can have your dual citizenship buddy order and pick them up for you and avoid the hassle.

as long as they are cooperative, some FFL's are hesitant to accept items from individuals due to theft, fraud etc and prefer to be shipped via a dealer...tried to buy a rifle from a coworker in the US but eventually wasn't worth the hassle, royal pain in the ass

[Agent Orange]

There is a good chance it will not make it to your door. I ordered a scope from Cabelas a couple years back and had it shipped to ship happens in Sumas for me to pick up. They cancelled the order without telling me and credited my card back. When I called to inquire they told me that because the shipping address was a post office service near the border and my credit card was registered to a Canadian address, it was obvious that the scope would be exported and I would need an export license. Soooooo, I drove to tulalip and bought it in person, drove back the same day and declared nothing.

On a similar note, I bought an ATV in Oregon, and according to US export laws, I was required to fill out paperwork for exporting a vehicle and submit it to US customs 48 hours prior to exporting the vehicle. I called the CBSA and asked if they cared about this paperwork and they said NO.

[Salty]

Soooooo, I drove to tulalip and bought it in person, drove back the same day and declared nothing.


You must enjoy living on the edge. If you were caught the very best possible outcome for you would be to be banned from the US for life. But being caught would probably be a trip to an American jail and sorting things out from there so that would probably be wishing for too much.

[Xenomorph]

You must enjoy living on the edge. If you were caught the very best possible outcome for you would be to be banned from the US for life. But being caught would probably be a trip to an American jail and sorting things out from there so that would probably be wishing for too much.

I think the only work around to that is buying the temporary "non-resident" hunting license? Then you're good with rifle/ammo on you, as long as you're not driving a truckload back :) ...common sense?

[jacksondog]

You can bring riffle scopes across the border as long as it's not a tactical scope. Talked to the US Border before my trip to Spokane, Wa and this is what they told me, on this trip bought a Vortex Viper from Cabelas.

[landphil]

Or you can have your dual citizenship buddy order and pick them up for you and avoid the hassle.

Doesn't work that way - an export permit would still be required.

[Lastcar]

You can bring riffle scopes across the border as long as it's not a tactical scope. Talked to the US Border before my trip to Spokane, Wa and this is what they told me, on this trip bought a Vortex Viper from Cabelas.

This topic is one complicated beast. The default answer to not do it is a practical one. Probably the best for the majority of folks.

For those who want to dive in deeper and understand if they can and decide if the will, you've got some work cut out for yourself. While I find much of the information pretty clear, it is almost always written in legalese. Which makes my peabrain struggle from time to time.

Take none of this as fact but a potential launching point for your own research. Certainly how I understand it, but no point in you going to jail from what may be shoddy information from me.

My general understanding is the same as others have mentioned. Scopes built for military purposes or to military grade fall under ITAR. These may not be exported. Heck not even schematics of them can be exported.

Scopes that are not military grade fall under other export rules from the Dept. of Commerce I believe. And then there is an exemption if it under $500 USD. I am not sure this part is as strict as the ITAR. But reccomend you do some more research on it as needed.

In more layman's terms if it is clearly for hunting they are not going to be fussy. As JacksonDog mentioned the US border folks are upfront about this. That said, I'd not be too stoked to find myself in an export check approaching the border with the scope in the vehicle. Sure you are likely to head home with it in hand. But what an adventure that may be along the way.

But again as JacksonDog says they claim to apply common sense.

I've done it. 3 years or so back. Based on this information. Three of them on two separate trips.

And then drove one down to return it. Wasn't as keen on that last part. Didn't look into that. In hindsight should have.

But wouldn't do any of it again. Less and less aspects of government and regulations include independent thought. Zero tolerance means zero need for thinking.

Everything gets swallowed up by the rule, regardless of logic or the situation. Heaven forbid we rely on people to think on their feet and make decisions.

[Salty]

But wouldn't do any of it again. Less and less aspects of government and regulations include independent thought. Zero tolerance means zero need for thinking.


That sums it up pretty well. Should clarify from my other comment having something shipped to you (cross bow with scope) is putting any potential trouble on the business down there doing it. I'm guessing, just guessing that a factory crossbow with scope is probably not a problem. But anyone taking a scope on their person across the border is setting themself up for a world of hurt.

[Fisher-Dude]

Optics are classified as Military Items which are regulated by Part 121 of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations( ITAR) only US citizens can buy or purchase in the USA, You can thank those Wingnut Bombers from 9/11 for helping form Homeland Security and all sorts of restrictions on firearms and optics !!!!

Actually, you can thank our federal Liberal government for that.

The previous Libs had a chance to get exempted from the US export ban because we're allies. However, Chretien the Quebecer said "Non!" because Liberals hate guns and gun owners.

I wonder why some Canadian firearms owners on this forum voted another Quebec Liberal in?

[hparrott]

Just as an update, today I received the crossbow scope that was the topic of this discussion. The scope arrived unopened, and arrived via UPS. Some things make you go hummmmmmmm

[Bugle M In]

Just as an update, today I received the crossbow scope that was the topic of this discussion. The scope arrived unopened, and arrived via UPS. Some things make you go hummmmmmmm

too funny....
next time I need a scope, I will just carry US cash.
Canadian Border won't care ...IMO

[albravo2]

Just as an update, today I received the crossbow scope that was the topic of this discussion. The scope arrived unopened, and arrived via UPS. Some things make you go hummmmmmmm

Remember, just because it worked this time doesn't mean it is legal or it will work next time.

Used to know a guy that said he would mail hashish from Montreal to BC. Apparently it worked pretty good, until it didn't.

[itsy bitsy xj]

does it matter now that the loonie is worth 50c US

[Xenomorph]

does it matter now that the loonie is worth 50c US

Touche! No more comments :)

[hparrott]

Remember, just because it worked this time doesn't mean it is legal or it will work next time.

Used to know a guy that said he would mail hashish from Montreal to BC. Apparently it worked pretty good, until it didn't.

You gave me a good laugh. Thanks for that.

[Bowzone_Mikey]

the CBSA doesnt care ... its the USA export laws of Military spec stuff ... that could be used for "terrorism"

if its not mil spec the US DHS wont care either, a cross bow scope is not Mil spec .... Put a crossbow scope onto a .22lr and see how long the insides last from the "shock a 22 long puts out ...

[IronNoggin]

.... Put a crossbow scope onto a .22lr and see how long the insides last from the "shock a 22 long puts out ...

LOL! Not quite. Crossbow scopes are subject to a LOT more vibration & shock than any 22 could ever deliver. Crossbows & airguns produce multi-directional recoil characteristics which can damage scopes designed only to handle typical weapon to the rear recoil.

Here's an analysis by an airgun site, but the data applies equally well to crossbows. Scroll down to the table to see which rifle scopes might make the grade for a crossbow application: http://www.lasc.us/rangingshotrifleairgunscopes.htm

In fact using a rimfire scope on a crossbow will result in scope failure within short order - whereas doing the reverse (and yes, I have tried this personally) by placing a modern quality crossbow scope on a 22 will not result in shaking said scope apart.

Cheers,
Nog

[BRvalley]

an Excalibur crossbow scope can last at least 3 bricks on a 22, that much I know for certain, and it still works back on the bow

I'm not clear on mil spec vs not with respect to ITAR, but regardless, I'd assume a company like Barnett would be fully compliant, if so required...was there any extra paperwork with packing slip?