Ranchers who don't allow access?

[Hunterguy]

Why is it and I hear every year the complaints from ranchers that the elk are a problem, Del Rio, Hudson Hope etc. I feel for the people who get a late season draw that cannot get permission to take an elk on their property, there has to be a reason for all the knocking on doors and ranchers saying no. Would like to here from some of the ranchers or locals for a reason that there not more abiding?

[Edzzed]

Liability might be one reason

[Sofa King]

i would guess they've had bad experiences with hunters they've allowed permission in the past.
only thing that really would explain it.

[canadiancon]

Was talking to the Dawson CO he said after the first couple of years that they opened the elk wide open in the peace, the farmers said they would rather the elk than the hunters. The few I have talked to said they have had nothing but bad experiences, from atvs ripping up the wet fields, garbage being left and guys taking tractors to get their trucks un stuck in the middle of the field.

[albravo2]

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm really curious too.

I loathe knocking on doors. It would really suck to get told no door after door.

[Sofa King]

Was talking to the Dawson CO he said after the first couple of years that they opened the elk wide open in the peace, the farmers said they would rather the elk than the hunters. The few I have talked to said they have had nothing but bad experiences, from atvs ripping up the wet fields, garbage being left and guys taking tractors to get their trucks un stuck in the middle of the field.

there you go.
makes sense.
asshole hunters ruining it for everyone.
oh but wait, they are all "fellow-shooters" aren't they?
they must be great peeps.

[Steeleco]

Not quite in that area of BC, but the land owner that let our kids hunt his land in the last few years was always upset with the liberties people took with his land. Tire tracks, stuck trucks and gut piles in his Alfalfa patch. That just brought in scavengers/predators that would then harass his livestock.

The first year he saw my load my daughters deer whole into the back of my truck, and bust my ass doing it, he said we could come back anytime.

[okas]

because most people are stupid and you can not change stupid:roll: this is the hunter i am talking about here // so sad to bad as a few spoil it for all

[Apolonius]

We always screw it for ourselves....or some do it for the rest.

[okas]

mile 93.5 on the 117 rd. on the halfway river . 7-35

[Bugle M In]

Not quite in that area of BC, but the land owner that let our kids hunt his land in the last few years was always upset with the liberties people took with his land. Tire tracks, stuck trucks and gut piles in his Alfalfa patch. That just brought in scavengers/predators that would then harass his livestock.

The first year he saw my load my daughters deer whole into the back of my truck, and bust my ass doing it, he said we could come back anytime.

I think that is it exactly.
I understand ranchers not wanting hunters, if hunters use quads etc, due to the fact that they
will potentially rip up all the grassland, which is why the rancher has cattle in the first place.
The garbage and gut piles is another big reason.
I am possibly going to ask a rancher next season for permission to hunt on his "grazing lease".
I will tell him that I hunt with no quads, and that I will not even camp on his lease lot or even park there.
That I will do everything I can to keep it clean (like you stated, taking care of gut piles).
That's all I can do...and oh ya, not aim the rifle towards his cattle etc.
But, that being said....
I suspect that some ranchers like to keep hunters off for there own private other interests.
That it's not always just about the safety of their cattle and grasslands.
I will see what happens next season....and ya, I will post whatever the outcome is.
I do agree, some hunters do ruin it for the rest of us.
But, as far as grazing leases...I not so sure I agree with them .
I do agree that the "grasslands", are the first priority, and that needs to be protected for the rancher leasing it.
I also think hunters need to have to ask for permission and give ie. names and driver licenses etc,.
But to be denied outright, even if you are willing to hunt under certain stipulations as stated above...does
leave me concerned and honestly somewhat angry that it happens.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm really curious too.

I loathe knocking on doors. It would really suck to get told no door after door.

It can be intimidating. We have done it and most who say no are polite. Those that say yes are rarer and rarer. The elk and hay issue isn't what it was so that may explain a lot of it.

[Bugle M In]

A lot of the landowners up here feel the late season should be ended as there have been to many elk killed. Elk Numbers are down significantly.

ok, but this thread is more about "why" ranchers are not allowing access to hunters.
To say ranchers should decide when and if hunters should still be hunting elk is "Not" for them to decide.
That is a Ministry issue...
Although, yes, they are allowed to have an opinion, just like we do when we see certain decisions that are not working
or impacting wildlife.
But by no means should ranchers be determining the length of a elk season or any other season.
That is concern for even more strife between hunters and ranchers potentially.
But, if access is being denied, due to the conduct of some hunters who have been allowed in the past,
and these hunters have ruined it for the next hunter...than that should be discussed.
Maybe certain rules need to be implemented to protect the ranchers interests, and yet also allow hunters to
once again get access to these areas with permission.
I think that would be a great discussion, and something that appears to be a "growing problem".

[okas]

there is no other interests just feed up with cut fences and a mess left behind ...all simple no respect so all become bad in ones eyes . in the 1800 they would be sport

[okas]

getting to close to home now .. i am done .. no more posts or reading them

[bwhnter]

I am a land owner in the peace and i have had people knocking on my door, interrupting my work, calling me on the phone and even stopping me on the street since August. Someone knocks on my door almost every day from thursday night until saturday night since the late season has opened. I have had people tresspase, expect me to load the elk that they might harvest and even expect me to tell them exactly where they are like, i farm them. I have had people tell me they are coming to do me a favor by shooting one of my"problem" elk. When i say no they are rude and i have had to shut the door on some real winners. Then i have to worry about them coming back and ruining stuff or cutting my fences. But I am the jerk off farmer that is the problem. I have a lot of family that hunt and friends as well and they always get first rights.

Now i have let some kids shoot elk and i only had three rules. No bulls, one time only(don't ask again) and i don't want it told all over that i let you on. Even with those three simple rules people tried to push their way on me. What if it is a big bull? What ii we only see a bull? All i want to shoot is a bull? Or so and so told me to come talk to you because they got a cow last year. It is to the point now that if i don't know you personally it is a NO.

That has been my experience with the late season LEH elk season in the Peace as a land owner.

[Surrey Boy]

there you go.
makes sense.
asshole hunters ruining it for everyone.
oh but wait, they are all "fellow-shooters" aren't they?
they must be great peeps.

But if you say anything, HBCers call you an elitist snob.

[Ambush]

My hunting partner and I spent three full days driving the circle from Chetwynd up through HH to FSJ then down the Hway back to Chetwynd. We knocked on a lot of doors and talked to a lot of landowners. Most were polite even if short. Some talked a bit, some were outright friendly. We heard a number of reasons, but if a reason was given it was usually that there were already a number of hunters already hunting regularly there. One lady just said simply that her family hunted first and it was a long line as her grandkids were now of age. Nothing wrong with that. We even met two of the kids going out for their first deer.

We finally secured permission on two adjacent ranches. I got a few deer there over the years and in February we took a young five point elk. But mostly they've just become friends that I visit in the summer, sometimes in the fall and catch up on the phone at Christmas. The hunting is not what it was a few short years ago, what with that deer slaughter, backed with two severe winters, plus elk fences. But the people are the same, so I keep going.

Part of our getting initial permission may have been that both of us only bow hunt. Easier on cows apparently. That and I don't think the rancher thought we would be killing anything anyway. We killed two muley bucks that trip. The next year we turned down lots, got skunked and had a good hunt.

After you sit on a hill overlooking a big piece of farmland with a road going through it for a few days, you get a sense of what ranchers put up with. It's pretty evident that many people driving around with a gun and a tag have very, very little respect for property or for the owners of it.

Ask yourself one question. If you had a piece of land that you lived on and hunted on and your friends/relatives hunt on, how many strangers would you say yes to? Be honest.
Everybody thinks they own their little "honey hole" on crown land, never mind if you actually did own it.

There's way more hunters than ranches, so of course some are going to be left outside the fence.

[scotty30-06]

Well said bwhnter....."my land my rules"....people shouldn't expect you to say yes....just saying it's pretty easy to see landowners point

[BCMarc]

- tore up fields
- trash
- cutting down trees in their way
- cut fences
- open gates

[Doostien]

I am a land owner in the peace and i have had people knocking on my door, interrupting my work, calling me on the phone and even stopping me on the street since August. Someone knocks on my door almost every day from thursday night until saturday night since the late season has opened. I have had people tresspase, expect me to load the elk that they might harvest and even expect me to tell them exactly where they are like, i farm them. I have had people tell me they are coming to do me a favor by shooting one of my"problem" elk. When i say know they are rude and i have had to shut the door on some real winners. Then i have to worry about them coming back and ruining stuff or cutting my fences. But I am the jerk off farmer that is the problem. I have a lot of family that hunt and friends as well and they always get first rights. I have said my peice from the veiw of a land owner.

The phone calls and the house visits do get annoying. Honestly, don't show up at the house people. You don't like mormons showing up at your house don't go doing it to someone else.

Another thing to remember is that the rancher doesn't know if you're the guy who will cut his fence or be his best friend. He's taking a chance letting someone hunt. A chance that he doesn't need to even take. A lot of hunters have an expectation that a rancher should let people hunt their land. Why should there even be that expectation he should let you hunt? Having a pool in town doesn't come with the expectation your neighbours will be allowed to swim. If you do let them, chances are you pick and choose the neighbours you like.

[dakoda62]

Saw it first hand this year. Gut piles and rib cages in the middle of fields, friends had a gate post chainsawed off, Cut fences. Hunting on posted property, It's a wonder anyone can get permission.

[bridger]

I am a land owner in the peace and i have had people knocking on my door, interrupting my work, calling me on the phone and even stopping me on the street since August. Someone knocks on my door almost every day from thursday night until saturday night since the late season has opened. I have had people tresspase, expect me to load the elk that they might harvest and even expect me to tell them exactly where they are like, i farm them. I have had people tell me they are coming to do me a favor by shooting one of my"problem" elk. When i say no they are rude and i have had to shut the door on some real winners. Then i have to worry about them coming back and ruining stuff or cutting my fences. But I am the jerk off farmer that is the problem. I have a lot of family that hunt and friends as well and they always get first rights.

Now i have let some kids shoot elk and i only had three rules. No bulls, one time only(don't ask again) and i don't want it told all over that i let you on. Even with those three simple rules people tried to push their way on me. What if it is a big bull? What ii we only see a bull? All i want to shoot is a bull? Or so and so told me to come talk to you because they got a cow last year. It is to the point now that if i don't know you personally it is a NO.

That has been my experience with the late season LEH elk season in the Peace as a land owner.

Pretty well sums it up. Nice post.

[Lillypuff]

Northern Alberta the farmers were great for letting you hunt! The only one that told me no was the mother in law

[Bugle M In]

Well said bwhnter....."my land my rules"....people shouldn't expect you to say yes....just saying it's pretty easy to see landowners point

If it is private property, than yes, it all makes sense.
Problem is the "grazing leases"
It's not like the rancher has paid out right for that piece of property, thus making it "private property"
Instead, pays a lease to the "Government"....but, somehow, that becomes "private property".
That being said, I understand...that land is "leased" for the "right to graze cattle on it"
And heck ya....I see why ranchers are getting pissed with the mess and the lack of respect for the "grassland" and
for that exact reason, is why they are "leasing the land for their cattle".
But it is just a lease for grazing, under the authorization of the government.
But than you read that some ranchers use the this lease to also be an exclusive for hunting privilege for just
"their" family members.??
It's a gray area for sure, and I guess it is why new "grazing leases" do not happen anymore (from what I have been told).
But, if a rancher allows you to hunt, and than asks you to not shoot a bull??, has me somewhat puzzled.
His business is his cattle, and why he has also been given the right to hand out permission or not to, so as to
protect his intersests, which in my mind, is the grassland for his cattle etc.
What is that ranchers interest when it comes to what can be shot (a bull or a cow, if it is legal).
That has me concerned as to "how exclusive a grazing lease" has become., and it sometimes seems more than just about cattle.
Sorry, I don't mean to not be concerned about the ranchers points...regarding damage and mess etc.
And I do understand...it is hard to know a good person from a bad one...who is trust worthy and honest.
It's too bad to hear that this is happening, from the ranchers perspective and from the hunters perspective.
To me it really seems to be a case of both parties being problematic.
Some hunters don't get it, and never will.
And some ranchers think they really own it for everything, not just their cattle.
I guess the strife between hunters and ranchers will continue.
More ranchers will say no, and more hunters will be frustrated to opportunities lost.
The wheel will just keep turning as it has.
I guess I would like to see some better guidelines be drawn up....somehow??
Something that protects ranchers and the land they lease, and yet somehow increase hunter opportunities
on these leases.
I'd rather work together, to better the situation for both sides....but, it seems like a line in the sand
has been drawn.
From a hunter's perspective...I guess I can only hope that my ethics are similar to Steelco's and that if ever the time
comes when I go knock or phone for permission, that I am given the chance , and if is allowed, that I can show that
rancher that I will do everything to leave the place as if I had never been there in the first place.
But....I have my doubts that I will be given a "yes"
I suspect "no's" are the word of choice amongst many ranchers these days.

[375shooter]

I am a land owner in the peace and i have had people knocking on my door, interrupting my work, calling me on the phone and even stopping me on the street since August. Someone knocks on my door almost every day from thursday night until saturday night since the late season has opened. I have had people tresspase, expect me to load the elk that they might harvest and even expect me to tell them exactly where they are like, i farm them. I have had people tell me they are coming to do me a favor by shooting one of my"problem" elk. When i say no they are rude and i have had to shut the door on some real winners. Then i have to worry about them coming back and ruining stuff or cutting my fences. But I am the jerk off farmer that is the problem. I have a lot of family that hunt and friends as well and they always get first rights.

Now i have let some kids shoot elk and i only had three rules. No bulls, one time only(don't ask again) and i don't want it told all over that i let you on. Even with those three simple rules people tried to push their way on me. What if it is a big bull? What ii we only see a bull? All i want to shoot is a bull? Or so and so told me to come talk to you because they got a cow last year. It is to the point now that if i don't know you personally it is a NO.

That has been my experience with the late season LEH elk season in the Peace as a land owner.

Thanks for posting. It's nice to see it from a landowners perspective.

It would be nice if other landowners would chime in as well.

[J_T]

I know its not the Peace but similar issues exist here in the EK. A friend of mine that holds access to land beyond simply said he's done providing permission to people. Lack of respect and courtesy being the two main reasons.

[Lastcar]

- tore up fields
- trash
- cutting down trees in their way
- cut fences
- open gates

What if they bring pie?

[Bugle M In]

I know its not the Peace but similar issues exist here in the EK. A friend of mine that holds access to land beyond simply said he's done providing permission to people. Lack of respect and courtesy being the two main reasons.

And that is what needs to be addressed.
I am also agreeing that from the landowner or leaseholder/s perspective, that it is a legitimate concern.
I have seen first hand how much grazing land was destroyed due to ORV's in one area.
And, if I was a rancher....I would be pissed.
But, from my perspective, as a hunter, who doesn't use a quad, and I feel I am a respectful person, it sucks, to hear
that now I am categorized like the next idiot that was just there and messed it all up.
I would be more than willing to sign legal documents that would stipulate such things as:
1. Will not use an ORV (this is a big factor to protect grasslands on grazing property)
2. Will not shoot in the direction of cattle or structures etc, no matter the distance.
3. Will not leave any belongings / materials behind.
Something to that degree, is my thoughts anyways.
My issue isn't so much actual private property.
Someone paid in full for it, so, it belongs to them, and they can use the land anyway they want..
My issue is more on "grazing leases" and the feeling that sometimes this type of ownership, also
gives the exclusive rights to do anything they want with it, even though technically it was leased for
the purpose of "grazing for cattle"
Than I read, "I only allow my family etc to hunt it" or you can't shoot a legal bull....(why, because it belongs to me??)
That would get a lot of hunters annoyed.
But I get it...there are a lot of annoying, disrespectful hunters out there.
So, the ranchers have some very real legitimate concerns....110%
But, there is this little thing that exist inside some of the leases where it has somehow also become their exclusive
hunting reserve, if they want it that way.
I'm not saying this is all the ranchers...but some I am sure...just as it is some hunters who are ***holes.
Maybe the "fair solution" should be this.
If a ranchers wants to have their "Grazing Lease" as a No hunting Permission Given" zone...
Than maybe this "Zone"(Grazing Leased Area) should also be "Off Limits for Ranchers to Hunt" as well??
In other words, Grazing leases should be " No Hunting"....
I'm sure some Ranchers would love that....
But, their might be some ranchers that wouldn't...
Anyways, as long as grazing leases are renewed, this will always be a contentious area between hunters and ranchers.
Private Property is black and white.
I know I have seen other threads on this same issue, with some good opinions from both sides.
This thread only continues to show that the division is getting bigger.
I will only lose sleep if I one day see the province crown land being sold off in the form of private property.
Only thing I have ever seen when lines get drawn, the strife escalates.
Just like a marriage gone bad....
I don't want the ranchers on here to think I am against them, because I'm not...I see their points and concerns.
I also am now aware of the other crap they put up with...broken fences and garbage etc.
All Legit....
Just wish "no" was not the only solution.....

[BCMarc]

What if they bring pie?

Hasnt happened yet. They haven't identified my weakness.

[dracb]

Soooooo the rancher who has previously promised his friend, relative, surgeon who saved his life or whomever that they can come to his ranch and shoot that bull elk that is chewing up alfalfa with his cows wants you(the guy /gal from nowheresvile he has never heard of before) to promise to only shoot a cow elk on his property is the bad guy? All you have to do is say thank you and walk away. The ranchers owes you nothing and certainly does not deserve to be castigated for setting limits on what is acceptable to him on his property at that time and place.

[Carbonmatrix]

Way too man idiots that ruin it for everyone else

[hunter1947]

Could be that in the past the ranchers had bad experience with hunters ?? could be many reasons why they don't give permission
my thoughts are is the hunters never followed the ranches guidelines ??.

[KodiakHntr]

I am a land owner in the peace and i have had people knocking on my door, interrupting my work, calling me on the phone and even stopping me on the street since August. Someone knocks on my door almost every day from thursday night until saturday night since the late season has opened. I have had people tresspase, expect me to load the elk that they might harvest and even expect me to tell them exactly where they are like, i farm them. I have had people tell me they are coming to do me a favor by shooting one of my"problem" elk. When i say no they are rude and i have had to shut the door on some real winners. Then i have to worry about them coming back and ruining stuff or cutting my fences. But I am the jerk off farmer that is the problem. I have a lot of family that hunt and friends as well and they always get first rights.

Now i have let some kids shoot elk and i only had three rules. No bulls, one time only(don't ask again) and i don't want it told all over that i let you on. Even with those three simple rules people tried to push their way on me. What if it is a big bull? What ii we only see a bull? All i want to shoot is a bull? Or so and so told me to come talk to you because they got a cow last year. It is to the point now that if i don't know you personally it is a NO.

That has been my experience with the late season LEH elk season in the Peace as a land owner.

Nailed it. Or like my neighbor who hunts my place and let's me hunt his; "I feed them all year round, why would I give some guy from the lower mainland first chance at them just because he got lucky in the draw. He wants to hunt private property, go buy his own.

I have guys guys from work asking me constantly if they can come shoot one on my place. Or "Tell me when they are there, I'll come shoot one".
You want an 'easy elk', YOU spend a half million plus so YOU can have a place to hunt and shoot.

[bridger]

There were some inherent problems built into this hunt. 1) it was a political decision and not well thought out 2) it is basically tied to private land thus creating the present situation 3) landowners that like to hunt and have to put up with the elk and subsequent social problems have to draw tags like everyone else. Seems they could have been given better access to tags.

As this hunt was based on the premise that the MOE wanted to reduce the elk population by 50% in the ag zone perhaps the hunt has run its course as that population reduction has been accomplished. Maybe time for a review.

[325 wsm]

A working group should be formed. Possibly by the BCWF, they could provide "private land hunting training" courses and certification as well as insurance to cover the landowner should damages occur. Hunters attaining this training and insurance could use it as a bargaining tool to show the landowner they are responsible and sensitive to landowner issues.

received a pm stating something to this is already in the works.

[hardnocks]

but farmers will be farmers and when the next drought happens and the farmer hasn`t got enough feed for his cows . they will be crying wanting subsidy cause the elk are eating all his feed . tax money from those same azzhole hunters .

[two-feet]

There were some inherent problems built into this hunt. 1) it was a political decision and not well thought out 2) it is basically tied to private land thus creating the present situation 3) landowners that like to hunt and have to put up with the elk and subsequent social problems have to draw tags like everyone else. Seems they could have been given better access to tags.

As this hunt was based on the premise that the MOE wanted to reduce the elk population by 50% in the ag zone perhaps the hunt has run its course as that population reduction has been accomplished. Maybe time for a review.
This is the point. I thought the whole private land antlerless hunt was put forward because of pressure from ranchers as too many elk were having a negative impact on crops.

[Ride Red]

I am a land owner in the peace and i have had people knocking on my door, interrupting my work, calling me on the phone and even stopping me on the street since August. Someone knocks on my door almost every day from thursday night until saturday night since the late season has opened. I have had people tresspase, expect me to load the elk that they might harvest and even expect me to tell them exactly where they are like, i farm them. I have had people tell me they are coming to do me a favor by shooting one of my"problem" elk. When i say no they are rude and i have had to shut the door on some real winners. Then i have to worry about them coming back and ruining stuff or cutting my fences. But I am the jerk off farmer that is the problem. I have a lot of family that hunt and friends as well and they always get first rights.

Now i have let some kids shoot elk and i only had three rules. No bulls, one time only(don't ask again) and i don't want it told all over that i let you on. Even with those three simple rules people tried to push their way on me. What if it is a big bull? What ii we only see a bull? All i want to shoot is a bull? Or so and so told me to come talk to you because they got a cow last year. It is to the point now that if i don't know you personally it is a NO.

That has been my experience with the late season LEH elk season in the Peace as a land owner.

Great post for all to read and to understand from a landowners perspective. I grew up in southern Manitoba as a kid with these same problems. When whitetail season started, the road hunters came out in droves, some of them with snowmobiles that ran over or just cut our fences. The lack of respect or self-entitlement that people seem to have is quite overwhelming. I really don't blame the ranchers/farmers at all for just saying no. People/hunters need to put themselves in the ranchers shoes before they condemn them for saying no. I've met enough so-called hunters in the bush that I wouldn't want to hunt around, never mind having them on your own property.

[Ride Red]

A working group should be formed. Possibly by the BCWF, they could provide "private land hunting training" courses and certification as well as insurance to cover the landowner should damages occur. Hunters attaining this training and insurance could use it as a bargaining tool to show the landowner they are responsible and sensitive to landowner issues.

received a pm stating something to this is already in the works.

This would be a great step forward to show landowners that some hunters are willing to make the effort and be responsible, not self-entitled shits.

[Backwoods]

but farmers will be farmers and when the next drought happens and the farmer hasn`t got enough feed for his cows . they will be crying wanting subsidy cause the elk are eating all his feed . tax money from those same azzhole hunters .
From what I have heard it is going to be looked at closer, ranches and farms won't be subsidy for loss of crop/damaged due to elk, deer, moose destroying their land while they have no hunting signs posted all over, say no to every hunter but yet still want our tax dollars to be paid to them, it was on the news awhile ago, searched for the storey but couldn't find it!!!! Even if the ranchers got their family and friends to help with problem elk/moose every year, it would help more then just bit$&ing about it and doing nothing, I heard stories of ranchers/farmers poaching and wounding wildlife because they are a pest/problem, I wonder how much of that goes on, while there is tons of hunters that would properly and respectively harvest this game to feed our families and friends not our farm dogs!! I've asked many land owners for permission to hunt their land and have been given the go ahead and some have said no, I totally understand, if I owned land I would probably say no mostly because I am a hunter and provider.

[brutus]

dont apply for that draw,that way u dont have to ask for permission to anybody,hunt crown land its a better hunting experience anyway.a friend just came back from there and seen hundreds of elk on farm land(herds of 20 to fifty)no go from farmers.to me its not really hunting,drive around see elk in a field go ask for permission shoot an elk and go home(shooting in a barrell sounds like more fun to me).

[Backwoods]

dont apply for that draw,that way u dont have to ask for permission to anybody,hunt crown land its a better hunting experience anyway.a friend just came back from there and seen hundreds of elk on farm land(herds of 20 to fifty)no go from farmers.to me its not really hunting,drive around see elk in a field go ask for permission shoot an elk and go home(shooting in a barrell sounds like more fun to me).
100%!!!! being said, my friend just took an elk last week fair chase on crown in the peace. im starting to get the feeling guys give up hunting crown for this late season draw? but why maybe for the ease meat in the freezer, don't wanna go get stuck in the snow lol I would prefer to go work my a$$ off and feel great about my hunt.

[frenchbar]

Hunting in a haystack isnt hunting imoho...id rather go buy a cow......just say no to farmers fields lol

[Manglinmike]

I hunt the Williams lake are along the Fraser and for years there was 1400 mule deer doe draws there it was a gong show the ranchers would hand out 100 access cards to hunter and that was it ,but they abused that right and would go with buddies aswell and leave gut piles and tire tracks and shoot close to livestock etc. Now the deer pop is under control and only 150 or so tags no more yahos but there aint a hope in hell that another hunter is getting permission to hunt any of that land,the damage is done and it takes along time to forget about being burnd by folks that you put your trust in.

[Bugle M In]

From what I have heard it is going to be looked at closer, ranches and farms won't be subsidy for loss of crop/damaged due to elk, deer, moose destroying their land while they have no hunting signs posted all over, say no to every hunter but yet still want our tax dollars to be paid to them, it was on the news awhile ago, searched for the storey but couldn't find it!!!! Even if the ranchers got their family and friends to help with problem elk/moose every year, it would help more then just bit$&ing about it and doing nothing, I heard stories of ranchers/farmers poaching and wounding wildlife because they are a pest/problem, I wonder how much of that goes on, while there is tons of hunters that would properly and respectively harvest this game to feed our families and friends not our farm dogs!! I've asked many land owners for permission to hunt their land and have been given the go ahead and some have said no, I totally understand, if I owned land I would probably say no mostly because I am a hunter and provider.

Never realized they were getting subsidized for loss.
I agree, no hunting, no subsidy.
Seems only fair and the right thing to do.
I do like the licensing idea as well.

[moosinaround]

Fish in a barrel, lots of folks come home from this 7-20a hunt skunked! Ever try to sneak up to a herd of 30 elk in a field? You can make this hunt a hunt, or a meat trip, or whatever, but it is far from shooting fish in a barrel!!! As far as the farmers go, I hunt the crown around their farms. Been up there enough to know where to find it. moosin

[Jetboater]

heres the way i look at it when it comes to getting permission and i have been pretty successful in getting permission.. go before the season and talk to ranchers offer some help if he wants, be social don't just run up to see if they will let you on .. spend some time talking to the rancher, and his family, do it before you want to hunt their land, i know we all dont have time always to do it but it makes a huge differnece, find out what the farmer likes, bring some smoked or fresh salmon with you or some sausages, and be willing to share, spend the time and money to get to know the area, buy a land titles map and make a phone call to the rancher in advance, all thier names are listed on the map a phone book or a simple search on the phone typically reveals the famers contact number, give them a call in advance and build a relation ship, be ready to be denied i think im about 1 in 10 will say yes, be responsible, when you do get permission respect their land, ask them to give you a tour of the property so you understand what are the risk areas where they dont want you shooting or walking through, a lot of the ranches have family members that hunt as well, so respect that so you dont time a hunt when they are there.

i have properties all thru out the peace and region 8 that i am allowed to hunt just by being friendly and helpful, farmers aren't bad people they are just tired of people vandalizing their land, and dont forget typically in the peace getting the orange card for the property is needed, so go to the ministry of environment and get a handful that way your legal when on his land..

its pretty simple if your willing to do your homework, we all spend time each year scouting areas out on crown land..... why wouldnt you do it for farm land as well, once the rrelationship is formed its your job to ensure it stays that way so you get many years of hunting those properties..

just my 2 cents

[FirePower]

Mr. Hunterguy, as I understand it they may not collect crop damage insurance and deny hunting as well. If they have predation problems it is incumbent upon them to do their best to mitigate damage. Perhaps if this is happening people being turned down should contact the BCWF for information on the ins and outs. As for insurance join the BCWF and participate in the Outdoor Passport Program, take the time to make land owners aware of the advantages of it. There can be more to gaining permission than merely knocking on the door and asking.

[180grainer]

A working group should be formed. Possibly by the BCWF, they could provide "private land hunting training" courses and certification as well as insurance to cover the landowner should damages occur. Hunters attaining this training and insurance could use it as a bargaining tool to show the landowner they are responsible and sensitive to landowner issues.

received a pm stating something to this is already in the works.
That's a good idea. Have to check into it. Thanks.

[Steeleco]

A working group should be formed. Possibly by the BCWF, they could provide "private land hunting training" courses and certification as well as insurance to cover the landowner should damages occur. Hunters attaining this training and insurance could use it as a bargaining tool to show the landowner they are responsible and sensitive to landowner issues.

received a pm stating something to this is already in the works.

It's already in place and has been for a little while. http://bcwf.net/index.php/programs/outdoor-passport

[russm]

Ive only knocked on 2 doors, the first time was for permission to shoot a turkey in a cattle field and i was givin the ok and made it clear that if only shoot if there were no cows around and that if close any gates that i open, the second time i was asking about some white tail does in a field but it wasn't owned by who i was talking to, but he said if it was on his property he'd have no problem.

I think ig you make it clear that you know what the rules are and you're respectable when asking someone you stand a better chance at getting permission.

[Bugle M In]

It's already in place and has been for a little while. http://bcwf.net/index.php/programs/outdoor-passport

thanks for the link..

[canucker]

I hunt the Williams lake are along the Fraser and for years there was 1400 mule deer doe draws there it was a gong show the ranchers would hand out 100 access cards to hunter and that was it ,but they abused that right and would go with buddies aswell and leave gut piles and tire tracks and shoot close to livestock etc. Now the deer pop is under control and only 150 or so tags no more yahos but there aint a hope in hell that another hunter is getting permission to hunt any of that land,the damage is done and it takes along time to forget about being burnd by folks that you put your trust in.

This was one of the Ministry's biggest F'Ups . They overachieved on their reductions big time. Huge antlerless permits for years on a big prime winter range, all for catering to the big ranches in the area. It will take years for the population to recover.

[curt]

well I didnt read every post but from what I did read nobody touched on it so I will. #1 that peace region late elk season was put in place years ago because the ranchers and farmers were complaining about crop damage and such. Years ago the CO's had 3-4 page lists of farmers that would supposedly let you hunt the nuisance elk but it didn't last long why real simple...... guide outfitters!!!! you cant tell me that a guy with even half a brain, that was granted permission to access private land would do so and deliberately abuse that privilege! But I do know that lots of guides have approached numerous land owners and have paid to reserve the rights of that land for their clients AND THATS THE REALITY...........the system is corrupt land owners are now and have been foe a number of yrs in the back pockets of guides!!! Why do you think that land owner on here stated very clearly one of his rules was no bulls he said that because those bulls are all spoken for and paid for by the local guides don't kid yourself its happening and if they say otherwise they are outright lying to everyone including themselves its complete bullshit but its the truth.

[Salty]

Sorry curt gotta call bullshit on that one. I'm sure there's land owners who have relationships with guides nothing wrong with that its their land. But there's just not enough outfitters to sow up all the private lands that are out there with the hundreds of different owners. Plus a lot of people wouldn't pay big bucks to hunt a fenced field.

[bridger]

well I didnt read every post but from what I did read nobody touched on it so I will. #1 that peace region late elk season was put in place years ago because the ranchers and farmers were complaining about crop damage and such. Years ago the CO's had 3-4 page lists of farmers that would supposedly let you hunt the nuisance elk but it didn't last long why real simple...... guide outfitters!!!! you cant tell me that a guy with even half a brain, that was granted permission to access private land would do so and deliberately abuse that privilege! But I do know that lots of guides have approached numerous land owners and have paid to reserve the rights of that land for their clients AND THATS THE REALITY...........the system is corrupt land owners are now and have been foe a number of yrs in the back pockets of guides!!! Why do you think that land owner on here stated very clearly one of his rules was no bulls he said that because those bulls are all spoken for and paid for by the local guides don't kid yourself its happening and if they say otherwise they are outright lying to everyone including themselves its complete bullshit but its the truth.


A lot of the ag zone doesn't have any guide outfitters in it thus no guided hunting.

[J_T]

Initially ranchers liked the idea of using rifle hunters to help keep game off their land. The difficulty, as others have alluded to, was over time a lack of respect shown by hunters to ranchers lands. Frankly, the rancher I was just speaking to about this said he sees the problem as hunters from the LML. They arent first taking the time to identify private land and they continually tresspass, with ATV's.

[rides bike to work]

Canned hunts aren't my thing. Let the ranches put up tall fences and quite wining about the elk.

[panhead]

As for me ... I'm onto a third generation of lifelong friends after a "rancher" took me under his wing. Best thing that ever happened to my hunting career. I would think that your time would be the most valuable thing to offer ... probably the hardest for some to give though ... sometimes it just works out ...

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We all die alone ’cause no one want's to come with us

[Ry151]

I have friends in the peace that allow me to bow hunt on their ranch after we became friends when I lived up there. I can't use my rifle, why? Because of bad experiences with hunters in the past. Every year I have game cameras stolen, get pictures of trespassers and even have people use my blinds after making there own mile long trail running over fences private property signs and trees with there sxs. It's very frustrating and I don't even own the property. Hunters have a pretty bad reputation in the Fsj area and the only way your getting on someone's land is if another land owner makes a call for you. That's my experiences and honestly can't blame them, I wouldn't let hunters on my land either if I wasn't really good friends.

[bwhnter]

Curt, it is attitudes like yours that you "know" everything. The reason i have made the rule of no bulls is that i see what the damage of this liberal elk season has done to our elk heard. I am not in an allocated area and when i let people hunt my land i will nit accept anything from them because i like to share what i am fortunate enough to have. But i get to chose who i share it with and i get to decide how. I have gone from having the elk wake me up in September with bugling in my yard to not hearing more than three bugles this year. I was on the structured decision making commity in this area when they "adjusted " this season. I represented the local Rod And Gun Club. The rules apply to my wife and son and my self as well. We only shoot mature bulls. If we want meat we wait for a dry cow. It is out of conservation not monitary gain. I did not purchase my farm for making money i purchased it for hunting and a lifstyle. I am here everyday and i see what the elk population is like and i will do what i think is best where i can.

[curt]

bwhnter I respect what you are saying and I believe you its your land you know what's going, and I have never claimed to know everything far from it. Unfortunately what I'm saying is happening maybe not on your land but on others for sure and it's not right. If you own the land then absolutely you get to decide if people can hunt or not that is a no brainer, but not letting residents hunt because the guides will pad your pocket is going down a very bad road for BC hunters. Sorry Salty I completely disagree OUR wildlife should not be sold to the highest bidder whether you own big sections of land or not that is a recipe for disaster. bwhnter good on you btw for practicing conservation and doing your part, sounds like the ministry should tighten up the seasons around you.

[vintagerodshop]

Long time lurker here. As a family that purchased a ranch in the Princeton area about 15 years ago we had nothing but trouble from hunters. The previous owners had a open door policy for a lot of hunters as a lot of them came back and helped during hay season. As we saw the destruction of fences, gates being left open allowing one of our bulls to be involved in a serious accident with a ford expedition. The piles of garbage and empties, gut piles in the fields and general lack of respect of someones private property. we took the no hunting stance. we had a lot of hunters very angry with us telling us that they had hunted on the property for 20-30 plus years and were not going to stop. {previous owners held the property for almost 100 years} Many refused to accept that new owners had the rights to change the rules and became bitter about it causing even more damage and cutting fences. The long and the short of it is a few wreck it for the many. you can't blame the rancher! we now allow hunting to a very select few that we know will abide by the rules and respect not just the land but the owners as well.

[wideopenthrottle]

dont apply for that draw,that way u dont have to ask for permission to anybody,hunt crown land its a better hunting experience anyway.a friend just came back from there and seen hundreds of elk on farm land(herds of 20 to fifty)no go from farmers.to me its not really hunting,drive around see elk in a field go ask for permission shoot an elk and go home(shooting in a barrell sounds like more fun to me).

I agree with brutus...if you are unwilling to go far enough away to avoid private land then you are like the 25 people crabbing off the dock at barnett park complaining there is no space...

[hotload]

I tried to talk a farmer into letting me hunt his property and he was adamant about not letting me. I stood and tried to convince him and he still wouldn't. He finally pulled up his pant leg and showed me where he was shot in the leg while he was on his tractor. I thanked him for his time and walked away.

[longwalk]

I used to hunt private land in region 8. Had known the owner for years. He always commented on how nice a little spiker or fork would be for eating. It was unspoken that if I saw anything bigger that I should let it walk. He also had the local outfitter hunt the same fields. I gave him beer. The guide gave him cash.

I never had had an issue with the arrangement. I never left gates open or gutpiles in the field.