Accused moose poachers were tracked from Nicola Valley to high-end home in Vancouver

[East Van Ray]

http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/accused-moose-poachers-were-tracked-from-nicola-valley-to-high-end-home-in-vancouver/

Conservation officers tracking suspected poachers thought to be responsible for shooting and abandoning a moose in the Nicola Valley traced a pickup to the driveway of a home in Vancouver’s high-end Southlands neighbourhood.

Ashley Page, a conservation officer based in the Lower Mainland, testified for the Crown yesterday in the trial of two men accused of illegally killing a moose in the Nicola Valley two years ago.

Wei Li and Xin Xiao are each charged with illegal hunting and possession of a moose, as well as failure to retrieve edible portions of the animal. Li also faces a charge of hunting while not a resident of B.C and Canada.

Page told provincial court judge Chris Cleaveley she was dispatched to an address in Vancouver’s Southlands, near UBC, to find a pickup matching a description phoned in by two witnesses on Oct. 5, 2012.
She arrived at the address on Celtic Avenue to find a gated residence, where a maid answered via intercom from outside the gate.

“From the outside, I observed a pickup matching the description,” she said.

The Crown alleges that truck, still coated with mud, was hours earlier used by Li and Xiao off Dardanelles Lake Road in the Nicola Valley backcountry.

Prosecutor Evan Goulet began the trial Tuesday by outlining the events of Oct 5, 2013, when a pair of deer hunters came across a five-point bull moose dead at the side of a logging spur road.

Crown witness Kyle Carusi testified he was hunting deer off Dardanelles Lake Road with his father in the early morning.

Driving down a five- or six-kilometre logging road, the pair came across the dead moose.

Prior to that find, they waved at two men coming in the opposite direction in a Ford Raptor pickup — later traced to the Vancouver home.

Carusi said they checked the moose, including by driving a knife into the lifeless animal. He said it was cold to the touch and its blood was clotting.
Carusi added the moose had a noose around its neck and appeared to have been dragged to the roadside from the bush.

The two continued to drive down the spur road. On the return to the site where they first found the dead moose, the pair came across a pair the Crown said were Li and Xiao, their pickup backed up to the moose and a cable winch utilized in an attempt to get it inside the bed.

“Once we pulled up, it was like they stopped,” Carusi said, noting he had already taken photos of the moose and noted the truck’s plate.

“I said, ‘It’s a nice moose; nice job,’” Carusi recalled. “I said, ‘You shot this moose?’ He said, ‘Yeah’.”
The two men used an interpreter during the trial.

Defence lawyer Kevin Walker asked Carusi if he thought the men understood his question.

Carusi replied that he did not know if the pair spoke English.

Page told the court she seized the pickup registered to a woman from the Vancouver address.

Conservation officers also seized a trailer hooked up to the pickup.

Items confiscated included two rifles and a green rain jacket with what appeared to be a blood stain.

Goulet said the Crown will enter evidence that a DNA test matched that stain to the dead moose. The issues in the trial are expected to be identity as well as who shot the moose.

Another conservation officer testified Xiao, through an interpreter, told her the jacket was his and purchased in China, when goods were returned to him last year.

The defence argued that statement should not be admitted because the interpreter was not called and the Crown didn’t enter an audio record of the exchange.

The trial is scheduled to continue today.

[Vladimir Poutine]

Well this will be interesting. Watch for the race card by the Defense in one, two......

[TrickleCharger]

Thanks for posting this. Kudos to the COs involved in the investigation and to the men testifying. Let's hope they are charged to the full extent and not able to weasel out of it with expensive lawyers.

[TrickleCharger]

Well this will be interesting. Watch for the race card by the Defense in one, two......

"The defence argued that statement should not be admitted because the interpreter was not called and the Crown didn’t enter an audio record of the exchange."

Glimpses being shown already I'm afraid...

[tuner]

This must be the result of a cultural misunderstanding.These Poor folks just need sensitivity training, in order to correct their misguided attitudes toward our wildlife resources. Perhaps "restorative justice" is more fitting than jail time, confiscation, and crippling fines. Signed: a hemorrhaging heart.

[Vladimir Poutine]

This must be the result of a cultural misunderstanding.These Poor folks just need sensitivity training, in order to correct their misguided attitudes toward our wildlife resources. Perhaps "restorative justice" is more fitting than jail time, confiscation, and crippling fines. Signed: a hemorrhaging heart.

Mention a $ or two and watch the no lo comprende cease immediately.

[caves16]

is there a reason we can't add to the requirements to have a hunting licence that the hunter have a working knowledge of written and spoken English? As far as i know there are no CORE exams in other languages? I'm not aware of any CORE course offerings in other languages? I would like to see the CORE exams written by the one who sounds like he is a legal hunter. This might solve a lot of problems at the time of prosecution. I expect all sorts of Charter issues would come up as a result, but i think they can be saved by section 1 of the Charter for these well documented reasons. its in the public interest, and the interest of preserving our natural resources that any legal hunter be able to demonstrate a working knowledge of the language. otherwise, how could crown successfully prosecute someone for violating the regs? if the hunter's 'excuse' is they didn't understand the language (which is not a valid defence in Canada) it does little to solve the problem - the moose is still dead.
But the article is weak - giving very little information and leaving a lot to assume from what little was said. Was the moose taken away? Sounds like it, but why then the charge for failure to retrieve the edible portions?
If the illegal harvest charge is based on one of the hunters answering the witness at the scene with 'yeah' to his question of ''did you shoot it" that will never be enough to convict.
I'll be interested to see how this turns out.

[Vladimir Poutine]

is there a reason we can't add to the requirements to have a hunting licence that the hunter have a working knowledge of written and spoken English? As far as i know there are no CORE exams in other languages? I'm not aware of any CORE course offerings in other languages? I would like to see the CORE exams written by the one who sounds like he is a legal hunter. This might solve a lot of problems at the time of prosecution. I expect all sorts of Charter issues would come up as a result, but i think they can be saved by section 1 of the Charter for these well documented reasons. its in the public interest, and the interest of preserving our natural resources that any legal hunter be able to demonstrate a working knowledge of the language. otherwise, how could crown successfully prosecute someone for violating the regs? if the hunter's 'excuse' is they didn't understand the language (which is not a valid defence in Canada) it does little to solve the problem - the moose is still dead.
But the article is weak - giving very little information and leaving a lot to assume from what little was said. Was the moose taken away? Sounds like it, but why then the charge for failure to retrieve the edible portions?
If the illegal harvest charge is based on one of the hunters answering the witness at the scene with 'yeah' to his question of ''did you shoot it" that will never be enough to convict.
I'll be interested to see how this turns out.

Believe it or not, rudimentary working knowledge of English is already a requirement for citizenship. It must be a very easy test to pass:confused:

[Chango]

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/BCChango/poachers_zpsnrcgnmtb.jpg

[tuner]

^^^^that's awesome!!!:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[northernbc]

so far every part has worked properly, citizen reports great job, co,s investigate and identify,, awesome job people thank you.. now for me the really scary part, hoping for the courts to do their job and if found guilty lay down the biggest punishment possible.

[Xenomorph]

This must be the result of a cultural misunderstanding.These Poor folks just need sensitivity training, in order to correct their misguided attitudes toward our wildlife resources. Perhaps "restorative justice" is more fitting than jail time, confiscation, and crippling fines. Signed: a hemorrhaging heart.

Raptor registered to the maid that lives into a gated house ...yeah, I'd say I agree with a lot of fines and restorative justice.


"The defence argued that statement should not be admitted because the interpreter was not called and the Crown didn’t enter an audio record of the exchange."

Glimpses being shown already I'm afraid...

I think it's been mentioned already but this isn't even a case of misunderstood English comments, dude didn't have a permit, nor was he a resident. Dafuq?!? is probably the most laid back, conservative comment I can make.

[Xenomorph]

so far every part has worked properly, citizen reports great job, co,s investigate and identify,, awesome job people thank you.. now for me the really scary part, hoping for the courts to do their job and if found guilty lay down the biggest punishment possible.

Which any common sense person could see and agree with ...I just don't want to set myself up for disappointment.

[GotaGun]

Let me guess outcome.
$2-4k fine and they can poach again this weekend.

[MB_Boy]

If anyone sees the final decision in this case or an article on it.....please put it up! ;-)

If various individuals continue to get off on wildlife related offenses because of language issues we have a pretty big problem at hand.

Vietnamese elk poachers got off on the Island because they couldn't find a translator......and if this one has a language caveat in it that leads to no charges there is an ugly, ugly precedent being set. There is the recent wildlife trafficking in parts with a certainly "non saxon" type name.

I'd be curious to know other fish/wildlife offenses/charges that have been dismissed due to language barriers. The elk one always stand out in my mind as it's truly a pathetic reflection of our justice system. The lower mainland has a massive dichotomy of languages and if our courts are getting hung up on not having interpreters or just simply accepting "I was unaware because I don't speak/read/comprehend English", it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

[Bugle M In]

After seeing a Doe laying dead and partly gutted, and the guilty party who shot it illegally obiously,
as they left it when they heard my friends son go to investigate the shot on his quad, and they got scared
and took off.
I now will record any vehicle in the area I hunt....
The son had seen a blue gmc parked not too far away, but at the time, didn't know these were probably the
culprits responsible, so plate # wasn't taken.
They have done this in the past , as we found 3 other doe carcasses very close by, in a further decomposition state,
but with meat removed...
Sickens me to hear so much poaching going on...
Won't stop until a "Frickin Severe Penalty" is one day handed out!!!!
Don't know when that will ever happen....total piss off!

[J_T]

I love that scene in Lethal Weapon 2 when Danny Glover revokes the "Diplomatic Immunity" of Arjen Rudd.....

[fuzzy 63]

hello all , I have to reply to this . when I ''STOPPED '' fishing it was because of very similar circumstances . I was approached by a guy '' Caucasian '' who was watching me catch and release coho on the vedder river and commented on my skill and ability . i said thanks and continued to cast and he then made a offhand comment that I could be making good money with my fishing . I laughed at him and thought nothing of it . As I was camping on the river at Tamahi, I was on the river the next day as well and the same a-hole approached me again and made the same comment . This time I stopped casting and put down my Rod and asked him what he was getting at and he offered me cash money for every coho that I would sell him , he then went on to say how he has a couple of guys working the river for him and they were making good daily cash . so i pretended to be interested and asked how much per fish . It was 3$ per fish cash and he said that I wouldn't have to do a thing because he would have someone pick them up from me through the day . he told me that the market for coho was very strong and it was easy money as the fish were just going to DIE ANYWAYS .At this point I was boiling inside because ethics had been ingrained since day one from my dad , I kept my cool enough to say no and told him I wasn't interested and some what politely told him to GFYS . He called me a loser and laughed at me and left . Guy standing next to me says he see's the same guy all the time at the river and said that his truck was of a specific type and color and was always in certain areas around the river . I saw a co later in the day and told him of what was going on and the co replied that he had similar reports and were investigating the matter and thanked me for reporting . still mad , I told another guy I knew who is nowhere as nice as me and they went out and located same prick a few days later and set him up , although it was not a friendly visit . He was given a prison beating with the yellow pages '' does not leave any marks '' FYI . Yes it was vigilantism at it's purest form , but it was effective and as for his vehicle in the remote area of upper vedder , it was tough drive out as all valve stems where cut off with bolt cutters and fuel tank saw a liter of milk poured in . Sometimes the law has to be taken into your own hands . a eye for a eye some might say .
this goes all the back to the early 90's and bothered me so much that I stopped fishing because there was no more enjoyment .
moral here is if you see something , record it and bring it forward otherwise we are all going to lose
Thanks for reading

[Lillypuff]

No wonder there is no moose in that area anymore! I believe that might be one of the dead moose I saw up there. I believe there were 2 up there at the same time. I also called rapp and bumped into the cos on the way down. 2 young men who were great to myself and 4year old daughter they even gave her a tiny little flashlight that she put beside her bed. I hope they make an example of this bonehead

[Xenomorph]

I love that scene in Lethal Weapon 2 when Danny Glover revokes the "Diplomatic Immunity" of Arjen Rudd.....

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. This language BS is just that BS.

[suburbanpat]

If they didn't know they were poaching they would have kept the moose. Simple as that. Tired of putting up with crap like this. They knew exactly what they were doing and now are trying to bail out any way they can. Typical... Lying, cheating, dirty f***s

[Deer_Slayer]

oh what a surprise at their last names!

[Deer_Slayer]

Makes no difference if they can or can't speak English. They now feel they run this country and can do as they please. They laugh at our fines. Deportation and confiscate their home, automobiles, guns and then fine them!

[BgBlkDg]

I agree, this level of punishment would actually be a deterrence to anyone of any ethnicity who breaks Canadas laws. I would love to see this done, but, we all know better as *bullshit walks but money talks*......

[Chango]

With an obvious disregard for our laws and ethics here, and if they just dole out a couple fines for these poachers. To a wealthy person who isn't even a resident of BC or Canada this will be nothing but a minor speeding ticket for them. They need an example made out of them.

[Iron Glove]

I'd imagine that they were "hunting" to reduce their food costs.
You know, it's pretty expensive living in Southlands. :wink:
They'll have a top $$ Lawyer representing them, any penalty they receive will be chump change to them.
It would be kind of neat if all the vehicles and such used in the crime were seized and their mansion where the "proceeds" of the crime ended up was also seized.
I wish.

[Xenomorph]

I'd imagine that they were "hunting" to reduce their food costs.
You know, it's pretty expensive living in Southlands. :wink:
They'll have a top $$ Lawyer representing them, any penalty they receive will be chump change to them.
It would be kind of neat if all the vehicles and such used in the crime were seized and their mansion where the "proceeds" of the crime ended up was also seized.
I wish.

Mansion maybe not, but guns, vehicles, hefty fine and ban for life from hunting should be a must.

[Downwind]

Mansion maybe not, but guns, vehicles, hefty fine and ban for life from hunting should be a must.

I don't know. Seeing as one wasn't even a resident of Canada, let alone BC, couldn't this be deemed illegal guiding which would make this a case where the house could be looked at as proceeds from a crime. Besides a hunting ban isn't gonna do anything seeing as he didn't have a license to begin with.

[Xenomorph]

I don't know. Seeing as one wasn't even a resident of Canada, let alone BC, couldn't this be deemed illegal guiding which would make this a case where the house could be looked at as proceeds from a crime. Besides a hunting ban isn't gonna do anything seeing as he didn't have a license to begin with.

I'd love to see that happening, but I'd be conservatively happy if at least the above are applied. I agree with you, there should be some clear cut punishments for blatant cases like these, unfortunately we don't seem to agree with one another to be enough of a coherent voice to push and lobby for regulation/legislation changes that would make sense and protect our resource. Sorry for the sarcasm, couldn't help it.

[lwing]

Maybe someone could post there address?

[northernbc]

don,t go there man ,no good could come out of that, for us as a group.

[Vladimir Poutine]

The judge has reserved his decision so we will have to wait. I've seen some of this judge's decisions before and I am not hopeful that he will do much other than a finger wagging.

[budismyhorse]

Who drives a Ford Raptor that isn't a total arsehole is the real question!

really enjoyed the post by fuzzy...

[REMINGTON JIM]

hello all , I have to reply to this . when I ''STOPPED '' fishing it was because of very similar circumstances . I was approached by a guy '' Caucasian '' who was watching me catch and release coho on the vedder river and commented on my skill and ability . i said thanks and continued to cast and he then made a offhand comment that I could be making good money with my fishing . I laughed at him and thought nothing of it . As I was camping on the river at Tamahi, I was on the river the next day as well and the same a-hole approached me again and made the same comment . This time I stopped casting and put down my Rod and asked him what he was getting at and he offered me cash money for every coho that I would sell him , he then went on to say how he has a couple of guys working the river for him and they were making good daily cash . so i pretended to be interested and asked how much per fish . It was 3$ per fish cash and he said that I wouldn't have to do a thing because he would have someone pick them up from me through the day . he told me that the market for coho was very strong and it was easy money as the fish were just going to DIE ANYWAYS .At this point I was boiling inside because ethics had been ingrained since day one from my dad , I kept my cool enough to say no and told him I wasn't interested and some what politely told him to GFYS . He called me a loser and laughed at me and left . Guy standing next to me says he see's the same guy all the time at the river and said that his truck was of a specific type and color and was always in certain areas around the river . I saw a co later in the day and told him of what was going on and the co replied that he had similar reports and were investigating the matter and thanked me for reporting . still mad , I told another guy I knew who is nowhere as nice as me and they went out and located same prick a few days later and set him up , although it was not a friendly visit . He was given a prison beating with the yellow pages '' does not leave any marks '' FYI . Yes it was vigilantism at it's purest form , but it was effective and as for his vehicle in the remote area of upper vedder , it was tough drive out as all valve stems where cut off with bolt cutters and fuel tank saw a liter of milk poured in . Sometimes the law has to be taken into your own hands . a eye for a eye some might say .
this goes all the back to the early 90's and bothered me so much that I stopped fishing because there was no more enjoyment .
moral here is if you see something , record it and bring it forward otherwise we are all going to lose
Thanks for reading

Love it fuzzy ! Perfect handling of the Scrout ! - and i bet it Sloved the problem at NO cost to use tax payers ! :lol: RJ

[Airedale]

In Nov 2014 three men from Abbotsford, with names much the same as this bunch, were fined $10,000 in a Campbell River Court
for actively hunting deer on the nearby highway in the middle of the night. Truck driver reported them.