This is not fair and it must change in the futur!

[alexboyprin]

Hi! Like I said...I have been hunting in BC for 5 years. To achieve that, I jump through many loops! I have: A PAL, I have: a CORE course, I have: a Hunting licence, I have: my tags! I go hunting only during the hunting season and I observe all the rules. (which sometimes is very difficult: for example, when one have to count the number of points on a deer when it is almost dark and the deer is 100 yards aways :) ...

So, during those 5 years, I could have kill my moose every year but I did not shoot them because of the "RULES". Most of the time, I would see a big bull moose, rifle in hand, loaded, tag in my pocket, hunting season...and...and..ii could not shoot because I had only the right to a spike fork!

Sometime, it would be a female and there also, I knew I could not shoot. So...no moose yet in 5 years!


But, one day when I returned at my hunting spot where I see lots of moose, another hunting told me: "you kkow the native got one yesterday"! With a big smile!

So, it is not fair that, I cannot have the right to shoot a moose and some citizen have the right to shoot anything at anytime and the worst is nobody how many animal are killed this way because a biologist told me that they do not keep record on how many animals are killed by the natives!

Scary, because, 10 moose could be wiped out in an area like mine and, everyone would wonder what happen to these moose!

Comment are appreciated.

Thanks!

[Spy]

Welcome to Canada ;-) Get used to it its not going to change !

[Ddog]

really? i guess life isnt fair,,hmmm go figure, i would have never known that.
so you figure since you have been here for 5 years you have the right to shoot a moose that no one else can shoot? we all go by these rules and most complain to that aboriginal hunters can take a moose when we can not. But hey,, deal with it like everyone else. Rules and regulations are in place for reasons, although some times it doesnt make sense to us, All of us non-aboriginals have the same rules to abide by.
and ...it is fair…ya right

[caddisguy]

Someone find the link to the supreme court decision that says using vehicle headlights at night to pit lamp and shoot deer is a traditional hunting method... charges dropped (just want to see a head explode)

[IslandBC]

Yeah but when you shoot your moose playing by the same rules as the rest of us, you will be more grateful.

[alexboyprin]

really? i guess life isnt fair,,hmmm go figure, i would have never known that.
so you figure since you have been here for 5 years you have the right to shoot a moose that no one else can shoot? we all go by these rules and most complain to that aboriginal hunters can take a moose when we can not. But hey,, deal with it like everyone else. Rules and regulations are in place for reasons, although some times it doesnt make sense to us, All of us non-aboriginals have the same rules to abide by.
and ...it is fair…ya right

...I can deal with it, no problem and I do not want special treatment. As Canada demographic is changing, this will have to change too because now, there not only whites vs natives ...now, there are chineses Canadians, African Canadians, Japanese canadiians etc etc...so, there cannot be a different set of law for every kind of Canadians. Ideally, it should come down to one law for all Canadians.

[Rob Chipman]

Yeah, we have laws (some of which are in the Charter and confirmed by the SCC) that are based on race. It is what it is. Not going to change. FN hunts are not monitored so it's pretty hard to avoid the problems you allude to.

It's be nice if there was one law for all Canadians, but that ain't going to happen soon either. We're officially bi-lingual because in the 60s we decided there were 2 founding races. Try banging the two founding races drum today and someone will point out that FNs were here first and that their languages should be recognized as official languages as well (wait, someone beat me to it and has made tht demand already, and our new PM supported the call) :-)

[alexboyprin]

Yeah but when you shoot your moose playing by the same rules as the rest of us, you will be more grateful.

...for sure! But, I want to note that I am born and raise in Canada. I am not new. In fact my family came here before Canada existed. It was called: "La nouvelle France"!

[Spy]

...I can deal with it, no problem and I do not want special treatment. As Canada demographic is changing, this will have to change too because now, there not only whites vs natives ...now, there are chineses Canadians, African Canadians, Japanese canadiians etc etc...so, there cannot be a different set of law for every kind of Canadians. Ideally, it should come down to one law for all Canadians.

You cant make that kind of sense, it will confuse people ;-)

[358mag]

Jassime please were waiting for you

[alexboyprin]

...I have been here all my life. I said I was hunting in BC for 5 years!

[RadHimself]

sounds like you should try out politics....

trust me, your not the only one that feels this way.... the moose season is region 3 and 8 have been cut down to 2 weeks... yet the natives are killing everything thats black and grunts...


welcome to canada

[alexboyprin]

I guess you are right! Oh Well!

[ACE]

...for sure! But, I want to note that I am born and raise in Canada. I am not new. In fact my family came here before Canada existed. It was called: "La nouvelle France"!
The little white pup will chime in and 'trump' your Canadian credentials ...... no one is more Canadian than him.

Nothing in life is fair ...... but, overall ...... it's been a pretty good life.

[alexboyprin]

sounds like you should try out politics....

trust me, your not the only one that feels this way.... the moose season is region 3 and 8 have been cut down to 2 weeks... yet the natives are killing everything thats black and grunts...


welcome to canada
thanks for the reply. we feel the same. but I am not new to Canada. in fact, I think I am almost a native because my family came to Canada from france in the 1600 before Canada even existed. may be the government should give the founding nations people (the English and the French who came here in the 1600 ) special rights? NO? when we came here, we had to llive like natives, with nothing.

[BgBlkDg]

Sorry, but the Norse settled in Canada, some 700+ years before Cartier, etc. and then the *Hanseatic League* based in England, Norway, Germany and France, with some other aspects thereof from Portugal, etc. initiated the process which created our country.

I might also say that the whole spectrum of issues concerning the *stewards of the land* here has been beaten to death here on HBC, for years and it is a waste of time to even discuss this here. It CAN be changed, but, there are forces involved that are both much different and far more powerful than may be apparent.

Justice???? Not even close........

[alexboyprin]

really? i guess life isnt fair,,hmmm go figure, i would have never known that.
so you figure since you have been here for 5 years you have the right to shoot a moose that no one else can shoot? we all go by these rules and most complain to that aboriginal hunters can take a moose when we can not. But hey,, deal with it like everyone else. Rules and regulations are in place for reasons, although some times it doesnt make sense to us, All of us non-aboriginals have the same rules to abide by.
and ...it is fair…ya right

I will tell you something. I will go hunting moose on nov 1st and I do not care if I cannot get a moose. I am not greedy not a maniac. I love to be alone in nature. I will take walks, I will call, and, even if I do not get anything, I will be happy.

[BgBlkDg]

That is the way to do it and enjoy what we still have in our country, while lobbying for a just system for all Canadians.

[alexboyprin]

Sorry, but the Norse settled in Canada, some 700+ years before Cartier, etc. and then the *Hanseatic League* based in England, Norway, Germany and France, with some other aspects thereof from Portugal, etc. initiated the process which created our country.

I might also say that the whole spectrum of issues concerning the *stewards of the land* here has been beaten to death here on HBC, for years and it is a waste of time to even discuss this here. It CAN be changed, but, there are forces involved that are both much different and far more powerful than may be apparent.

Justice???? Not even close........

May be we should give special right to the norse decendants? :) ..just joking....oh well...

[alexboyprin]

That is the way to do it and enjoy what we still have in our country, while lobbying for a just system for all Canadians.

...yes. and in general I think there is more than enough nature and wildlife for everyone to share. the deers and the bears for exemple are numerous. I am mosly worry about the moose. they do not seem to multiply so fast.

[albravo2]

The little white pup will chime in and 'trump' your Canadian credentials ...... no one is more Canadian than him.

Nothing in life is fair ...... but, overall ...... it's been a pretty good life.

Well said Ace, although the pup will probably grudgingly afford equal status if you have been here over 300 years. Assuming you are white, of course.

[Coachman]

Welcome to BC. Where selling salmon from a pickup truck on the side of the road is considered "ceremonial". .

Enjoy the outdoors. Play by the rules that you are subject to. Travel safe and know that when you're on your way home, you are holding your head high and did the honest thing by not pulling the trigger on an illegal animal.

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Become familiar with "the aboriginal right to hunt", and Sec 35 of the Canadian constitution. I'm not saying that I like the fact that my rights are second to those of aboriginal ancestry, but I accept it as the way it's going to be here in Canada.

I totally agree that the indiscriminate killing of moose by First Nations will be the demise of either the species, or at very least populations large enough to be huntable by non-FNs. Very, very sad.

[#1fishslayer]

Saw me a nice Cow Moose this morning. Dam rules anyway.... seems to me Canada voted for change......should have changed this shit.

[Fisher-Dude]

Saw me a nice Cow Moose this morning. Dam rules anyway.... seems to me Canada voted for change......should have changed this shit.

Canadians just voted in the same arsemunches that trumped any law we can make with a so-called "Charter" and "Constitution" that embed racial discrimination in our society.

[ducktoller]

No jassmin?

Self governence is enshrined in law, deal with it not gonna change.

To many aboriginal people adopting the oppressor cultures values is tantamount to cultural suicide, and accepting total victory to western settlers.

[.308SLAYER]

You cant put all natives in the same boat when it comes to hunting, i am not a status native but have status friends who are actually very humble in what they do and probably to your amazement they dont really care for the black thing that grunts. Ive been out with them and seen in one day a herd of elk, 5 moose, whitetail and mulies whats do you think we brought home nothing could of they brought home a truckful of elk oh yah sure no sweat. There is good people and bad people out there of natives and whites i know that these guys would never ever leave a kill behind even gone back the next day and searched hard for "that one that got away" yet last year hunting ran into a fellow hunter who told us he has found 5 non legal elk shot and left i can tell you right now who didnt shpot those😆

[alexboyprin]

You cant put all natives in the same boat when it comes to hunting, i am not a status native but have status friends who are actually very humble in what they do and probably to your amazement they dont really care for the black thing that grunts. Ive been out with them and seen in one day a herd of elk, 5 moose, whitetail and mulies whats do you think we brought home nothing could of they brought home a truckful of elk oh yah sure no sweat. There is good people and bad people out there of natives and whites i know that these guys would never ever leave a kill behind even gone back the next day and searched hard for "that one that got away" yet last year hunting ran into a fellow hunter who told us he has found 5 non legal elk shot and left i can tell you right now who didnt shpot those
...I agree. I have natives friends too and not every one is the same. many good peope out there. the bad are few.

[caddisguy]

You cant put all natives in the same boat when it comes to hunting, i am not a status native but have status friends who are actually very humble in what they do and probably to your amazement they dont really care for the black thing that grunts. Ive been out with them and seen in one day a herd of elk, 5 moose, whitetail and mulies whats do you think we brought home nothing could of they brought home a truckful of elk oh yah sure no sweat. There is good people and bad people out there of natives and whites i know that these guys would never ever leave a kill behind even gone back the next day and searched hard for "that one that got away" yet last year hunting ran into a fellow hunter who told us he has found 5 non legal elk shot and left i can tell you right now who didnt shpot those

There are bad apples in every group. Trouble is the law protects bad apples from certain groups. Just in the last year I have run into a few of those bad apples. One asked me if I wanted to go shoot some moose with him and went on and on about how we could shoot as many moose (cows/calfs/bulls) as we wanted if I went with him (he needed a ride) Separate occasion we had a run in with a fellow at derby reach in Langley who for the life of him could not stop bragging about how his family takes down dozens of caribou/elk at a time with semi-autos "spraying bullets everywhere". When ignored or protected by law, it doesn't take much of this kind of thing to really impact animal population. I was completely baffled that someone would brag about how cool it was to shoot up an entire herd. You're right that not everyone is a bad apple (far from it) but we need laws enforced to keep things in check.

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Natives, ATVers, and non-FN hunters are all alike in that a group of dish!ts give the rest of the group a bad name. I'm sure most of us know natives that are ethical hunters. Non-FN who tag along with status card holders to get in on moose they are not entitled to are no better than the aboriginal hunter who they are using.

[.308SLAYER]

I agree with what you are saying

[HarryToolips]

Hi! Like I said...I have been hunting in BC for 5 years. To achieve that, I jump through many loops! I have: A PAL, I have: a CORE course, I have: a Hunting licence, I have: my tags! I go hunting only during the hunting season and I observe all the rules. (which sometimes is very difficult: for example, when one have to count the number of points on a deer when it is almost dark and the deer is 100 yards aways :) ...

So, during those 5 years, I could have kill my moose every year but I did not shoot them because of the "RULES". Most of the time, I would see a big bull moose, rifle in hand, loaded, tag in my pocket, hunting season...and...and..ii could not shoot because I had only the right to a spike fork!

Sometime, it would be a female and there also, I knew I could not shoot. So...no moose yet in 5 years!


But, one day when I returned at my hunting spot where I see lots of moose, another hunting told me: "you kkow the native got one yesterday"! With a big smile!

So, it is not fair that, I cannot have the right to shoot a moose and some citizen have the right to shoot anything at anytime and the worst is nobody how many animal are killed this way because a biologist told me that they do not keep record on how many animals are killed by the natives!

Scary, because, 10 moose could be wiped out in an area like mine and, everyone would wonder what happen to these moose!

Comment are appreciated.

Thanks!
Your absolutely right....and good on ya for following what the regs say and "if in doubt, don't shoot!"....if everybody was like you, I'm sure our hunting would be better as less animals would be left to rot in the bush..

[Xbow]

I will tell you something. I will go hunting moose on nov 1st and I do not care if I cannot get a moose. I am not greedy not a maniac. I love to be alone in nature. I will take walks, I will call, and, even if I do not get anything, I will be happy.

Then stop yer bitc@#!..... its just so unfair. .. get on with yer life....

[yamadirt 426]

Indians... If you cant beat them join them.

[StuBrown]

There are rules and regulations for first nation hunters that are NOT hunting in their traditional hunting grounds. I do not believe that they are followed or monitored but there are rules. Any status first nations person hunting out of there traditional grounds MUST follow the regulations just like you or I. They have to follow the bag limits, opening and closing dates, EVERYTHING. Their status card counts as their license and tags.

While hunting in there own traditional lands it is up to the band. Some have no rules at all and some you actually have to go to the office and get a permit. I know that Tsey Khe Dneh (spelling is probably wrong) first nations are required to get a permit before being allowed to harvest any animal.

It is also illegal for a non first nations hunter to help in ANYWAY during a food hunt. Driving, gutting, loading, even standing there and giving instructions, all illegal.

Now with saying all of this I am positive that there are a ton of people that break the rules anyways... I am not saying that I agree with the above rules I have just taken some time and researched some of it.

[betteroffishing]

Once upon a time the law abiding hunter did so out of a concern for conservation and trusted that in doing the right and following the laws regarding points and open seasons was a moral high ground type of a thing to do , then CAnadas Supreme Court made it so that the cow moose I and a hundred other non aboriginal hunters drove past in the name of conservation could legally get shot by the 101st person to observe it in the wild just because that 101at person happened to be born of aboriginal ancestry. So as a result that 1 person completely nullified the conservation efforts of the hundred who came before. When the average law abiding citizen finds his efforts bear no evidencible fruit , the law becomes an ass , the moral high ground claimed by those who follow said laws becomes a source of self ridicule and the law abider becomes desensitized to the breaking of the laws and eventually becomes a law breaker himself. It's a sad , sad state of affairs.

[brian]

Its not fair, unfortunately our country was founded on a patchwork system of treaties in order to deal with people that were here before the colonialists arrived. These poorly thought out treaties have undoubtedly f**ked over both the indigenous people and modern hunters. That's the situation were are stuck with. Deal with it. I guarantee you that as unfair that you think it is for you, it was a thousand times worse for the indigenous people and now they are capitalizing on it. It sucks but that is the system we are stuck with.

[alexboyprin]

Then stop yer bitc@#!..... its just so unfair. .. get on with yer life....

...a so immature reply! if you have nothing intelligent to say, just shut up!

[alexboyprin]

There are rules and regulations for first nation hunters that are NOT hunting in their traditional hunting grounds. I do not believe that they are followed or monitored but there are rules. Any status first nations person hunting out of there traditional grounds MUST follow the regulations just like you or I. They have to follow the bag limits, opening and closing dates, EVERYTHING. Their status card counts as their license and tags.

While hunting in there own traditional lands it is up to the band. Some have no rules at all and some you actually have to go to the office and get a permit. I know that Tsey Khe Dneh (spelling is probably wrong) first nations are required to get a permit before being allowed to harvest any animal.

It is also illegal for a non first nations hunter to help in ANYWAY during a food hunt. Driving, gutting, loading, even standing there and giving instructions, all illegal.

Now with saying all of this I am positive that there are a ton of people that break the rules anyways... I am not saying that I agree with the above rules I have just taken some time and researched some of it.

...Very interesting! I did not know all that. Thanks!

[Glenny]

May be we should give special right to the norse decendants? :) ..just joking....oh well...

I'm for that. I want my Viking rights dag gummit!!

[TPK]

There are rules and regulations for first nation hunters that are NOT hunting in their traditional hunting grounds. I do not believe that they are followed or monitored but there are rules. Any status first nations person hunting out of there traditional grounds MUST follow the regulations just like you or I. They have to follow the bag limits, opening and closing dates, EVERYTHING. Their status card counts as their license and tags.

While hunting in there own traditional lands it is up to the band. Some have no rules at all and some you actually have to go to the office and get a permit. I know that Tsey Khe Dneh (spelling is probably wrong) first nations are required to get a permit before being allowed to harvest any animal.

It is also illegal for a non first nations hunter to help in ANYWAY during a food hunt. Driving, gutting, loading, even standing there and giving instructions, all illegal.

Now with saying all of this I am positive that there are a ton of people that break the rules anyways... I am not saying that I agree with the above rules I have just taken some time and researched some of it.

You're correct there are rules .. but there are little to no consequences (outside of what FN's impose upon themselves) to those not following them. I know of FN's Chiefs that have tried to have band members charged for poaching when illegal animals were hanging on their meat poles and NO ONE would lay the charge.

Here in Quesnel where we have been trying to get an Elk hunt for years .. the farmers dealing with problem Elk were simply calling the Red Bluff Band to take them out .. and they were. The RBB were handing out Elk Tags (of their own making of course) saying you have permission from them to harvest an Elk .. Yes the CO's shut it down as quickly and as best they could but do you think any charges were ever laid? .. of course not. Were a bunch of elk harvested .. YES, will it continue YES, will non-first nations ever see an elk hunt in Region 5 ... not any time soon.

[MOWITCH SLAYER]

I guess it all depends on how much you want to hunt. Been hunting for 35 years and ill never hang up my guns no matter what changes they make to our regs. There is always something to see in the high lonesome.

[curt]

apparently you haven't been here long enough to know how shit works right or wrong white man stole native land!! Canadian government is paying back the debt of your ancestors, doesn't matter who comes here now in the governments eyes it only matters who was here first. One thing we can all agree upon natives back in the day were treated like shit and that wasnt right, so the compensation keeps rolling in right or wrong it is what it is! I had family in some of those residential schools it was horrific what was done o them!!!
...I can deal with it, no problem and I do not want special treatment. As Canada demographic is changing, this will have to change too because now, there not only whites vs natives ...now, there are chineses Canadians, African Canadians, Japanese canadiians etc etc...so, there cannot be a different set of law for every kind of Canadians. Ideally, it should come down to one law for all Canadians.

[Bugle M In]

All I know is we are taught to not be racist.
But, when it comes to getting a "Status" card....it's a color thing???!!!
Enough said.

[pro 111]

You shoulda stayed in Qubec if ya dont like the rules in BC.:lol:

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Its not fair, unfortunately our country was founded on a patchwork system of treaties in order to deal with people that were here before the colonialists arrived. These poorly thought out treaties have undoubtedly f**ked over both the indigenous people and modern hunters. That's the situation were are stuck with. Deal with it. I guarantee you that as unfair that you think it is for you, it was a thousand times worse for the indigenous people and now they are capitalizing on it. It sucks but that is the system we are stuck with.

Well said. If we want to blame someone, it should be the colonizers of this great land who tried conniving their way in here rather than just fighting. If they'd lost, they'd have had to leave and if they'd won the loser would have been forced to integrate. In either case we wouldn't be in this mess now.

Brian, in most cases there were no treaties in BC. That is just it! The aboriginals never ceded their aboriginal title. We can't blame them for expecting a continuation of their aboriginal rights or title. Hell, who wouldn't want those rights and benefits? What we have in BC is the legacy of no treaties or wars, left by colonizers who thought they could get the job done with false promises and underhanded, cowardly gestures and commitments on behalf of the Queen's representatives.

After we stick them in res schools, try to erase their culture, get them on booze and just generally create societal chaos within their communities, everyone is blaming them for having some (not all) community members that are too screwed up to understand the basics about conservation or sustainability? Who was going to teach them that, the catholic priests who were too busy either beating them or screwing them?

I'm completely in agreement that the FN harvest on some species (certainly moose) is, in many cases, unsustainable. I don't know what mechanism they can implement unto themselves to get a handle on things, but that's a different discussion. What I do know is that non-FNs who are upset at the racial inequity in our country are either ignorant about the historical events that have created the current situation, or they choose to look past them.

[mnholt]

Big picture this is not a new conflict.. it's an example of a failed assimilation attempt.. our current generation will have to relish in the aftermath of such an act. It's sad it happened, however when in history has such an event been handled with such remorse from the current dominant culture?

Your exact scenario happened to me on a moose hunt a few years ago, the only peace I could make from the situation was that; with this kinda of uneven playing field, the FN will never create an opportunity to have the same social status as us. The ball is in their court to make change, but without education there is little hope. What is the motivation for education with the current funding programs?

I foresee the conflict persisting until nature it's self forces change. Our government has proven time and time again to not be strong enough to deal with this issue; and why would they as there's no monetary gain from leveling the playing field.

[olympia]

apparently you haven't been here long enough to know how shit works right or wrong white man stole native land!! Canadian government is paying back the debt of your ancestors, doesn't matter who comes here now in the governments eyes it only matters who was here first. One thing we can all agree upon natives back in the day were treated like shit and that wasnt right, so the compensation keeps rolling in right or wrong it is what it is! I had family in some of those residential schools it was horrific what was done o them!!!

That's right, you are reaping what your ancestors sowed. Don't blame the Indians, blame your ancestors for their self entitled ways.

[olympia]

You shoulda stayed in Qubec if ya dont like the rules in BC.:lol:

Yeah what he said...and NO!!! You cannot have Quebec as your own.

[Glenny]

I guess it all depends on how much you want to hunt. Been hunting for 35 years and ill never hang up my guns no matter what changes they make to our regs. There is always something to see in the high lonesome.

I will never stop hunting either. The day they say hunting is banned here is the day i don't need a license or an open season. I see it in a bigger picture. Humans, what a joke. The only species that needs permission from its own "elite" species when and where and how they can get their food and have to pay them to do so like its a privilege. i will naturally follow the rules to a T until that day. :-)

[835]

apparently you haven't been here long enough to know how shit works right or wrong white man stole native land!! Canadian government is paying back the debt of your ancestors, doesn't matter who comes here now in the governments eyes it only matters who was here first. One thing we can all agree upon natives back in the day were treated like shit and that wasnt right, so the compensation keeps rolling in right or wrong it is what it is! I had family in some of those residential schools it was horrific what was done o them!!!


trouble is Curt, without Equality ther will always be raceism.....
and the entire world has been taken over from someone at some time in history,, All humanity did horiffic shit... even First Nations.. You kept Slaves.
I am not trying to justify anything "White guy did" and i am not trying to turn a blind eye,,,, it was horrific.....
Raceism sucks.. both for you and me.... I am for Equality.....

Repay the debt of what happened by rebuilding your culture, not through handing extra rights... over top of the next guy.

[HarryToolips]

trouble is Curt, without Equality ther will always be raceism.....
and the entire world has been taken over from someone at some time in history,, All humanity did horiffic shit... even First Nations.. You kept Slaves.
I am not trying to justify anything "White guy did" and i am not trying to turn a blind eye,,,, it was horrific.....
Raceism sucks.. both for you and me.... I am for Equality.....

Repay the debt of what happened by rebuilding your culture, not through handing extra rights... over top of the next guy.
Very well said..

[dougan]

apparently you haven't been here long enough to know how shit works right or wrong white man stole native land!! Canadian government is paying back the debt of your ancestors, doesn't matter who comes here now in the governments eyes it only matters who was here first. One thing we can all agree upon natives back in the day were treated like shit and that wasnt right, so the compensation keeps rolling in right or wrong it is what it is! I had family in some of those residential schools it was horrific what was done o them!!!should be glad it wasn't Germans or others that came first . Your ancestors woulda bin killed .. Not put in residential schools . Enough of the cry baby shit from natives already . Like a bunch of spoiled teens. !!! Cry baby

[rred]

This thread is a joke

[835]

This thread is a joke

concur...........

[Xenomorph]

trouble is Curt, without Equality ther will always be raceism.....
and the entire world has been taken over from someone at some time in history,, All humanity did horiffic shit... even First Nations.. You kept Slaves.
I am not trying to justify anything "White guy did" and i am not trying to turn a blind eye,,,, it was horrific.....
Raceism sucks.. both for you and me.... I am for Equality.....

Repay the debt of what happened by rebuilding your culture, not through handing extra rights... over top of the next guy.


Racism will exist as long as people still put worth on things and "haves" and not on the idea of community, and furthering the next generation.

Problem is, as you've said it, the right of others over and above reason is what causes most of the animosity in and around this whole FN/non-FN hunting issue. I speak from the point of view of an outsider who's dealt with populations "positively discriminated" and it leads not to improvements of the group as a whole, but to a further isolation of the group -self choiced- up to the point that every move/request/try to help them integrate and work in the society is viewed as "DISCRIMINATION".

Problems are on both sides: attitude of us and them. The real issue, however, I believe that there is no concise and comprehensive description of the "un/able to do's". The double standard is what creates and fuels animosity on both sides: us saying is enough, them saying is not even close to what they deserve. Furthermore, when someone is caught with the goose in the sack it's a joke what they're doing, but here's where we all generalize and get pissed off possibly the wrong way. Think about the 25 deer quarters Chinese dude that just got caught. 25k fine and 8 years suspension on a person who had no license, no tags ...what type of deterrent is that.

We need someone with balls so to speak, and a spine that is strong enough to bring clear, concise changes and regulations that would fit the vast majority of residents and FN needs. I'm not even dreaming of fitting the likes of either, pleasing both parties in their entirety is a thing of unicorn legends.

Now mods, please close this, it's ridiculous it lasted so long.

[RadHimself]

I'm Metis.... where's my free sh!t?

[sawmill]

Hi! Like I said...I have been hunting in BC for 5 years. To achieve that, I jump through many loops! I have: A PAL, I have: a CORE course, I have: a Hunting licence, I have: my tags! I go hunting only during the hunting season and I observe all the rules. (which sometimes is very difficult: for example, when one have to count the number of points on a deer when it is almost dark and the deer is 100 yards aways :) ...

So, during those 5 years, I could have kill my moose every year but I did not shoot them because of the "RULES". Most of the time, I would see a big bull moose, rifle in hand, loaded, tag in my pocket, hunting season...and...and..ii could not shoot because I had only the right to a spike fork!

Sometime, it would be a female and there also, I knew I could not shoot. So...no moose yet in 5 years!


But, one day when I returned at my hunting spot where I see lots of moose, another hunting told me: "you kkow the native got one yesterday"! With a big smile!

So, it is not fair that, I cannot have the right to shoot a moose and some citizen have the right to shoot anything at anytime and the worst is nobody how many animal are killed this way because a biologist told me that they do not keep record on how many animals are killed by the natives!

Scary, because, 10 moose could be wiped out in an area like mine and, everyone would wonder what happen to these moose!

Comment are appreciated.

Thanks!

An old and worn out rant.Suck it up princess,nothing is going to change.

[edgar11]

Well said. If we want to blame someone, it should be the colonizers of this great land who tried conniving their way in here rather than just fighting. If they'd lost, they'd have had to leave and if they'd won the loser would have been forced to integrate. In either case we wouldn't be in this mess now.

Brian, in most cases there were no treaties in BC. That is just it! The aboriginals never ceded their aboriginal title. We can't blame them for expecting a continuation of their aboriginal rights or title. Hell, who wouldn't want those rights and benefits? What we have in BC is the legacy of no treaties or wars, left by colonizers who thought they could get the job done with false promises and underhanded, cowardly gestures and commitments on behalf of the Queen's representatives.

After we stick them in res schools, try to erase their culture, get them on booze and just generally create societal chaos within their communities, everyone is blaming them for having some (not all) community members that are too screwed up to understand the basics about conservation or sustainability? Who was going to teach them that, the catholic priests who were too busy either beating them or screwing them?

I'm completely in agreement that the FN harvest on some species (certainly moose) is, in many cases, unsustainable. I don't know what mechanism they can implement unto themselves to get a handle on things, but that's a different discussion. What I do know is that non-FNs who are upset at the racial inequity in our country are either ignorant about the historical events that have created the current situation, or they choose to look past them.

In a nutshell, the whole dilemma is written here. Not rocket science but really hard to understand for some.

[luckofthedraw]

I agree with the statement "when does it stop"?

My ancestors may have been involved. I have no idea. Most of my ancestors have also paid back over the years. I was never involved in any racial comments, or hurtful things. My children were also not involved. We have many native friends, and some extended family. Why does my 3 year old son, and probably his son, and his son continue to pay for the past? That is my only issue with all this. One day it should stop, and become 1 law......but when.....

[curt]

But they were nice slaves!!! :) all kidding aside I didnt say I agreed with everything that goes on either I've been very open about my feelings about the whole FN hunting on here all Im saying is the current situation wont be changing anytime soon it is what it is. Canadian governments historically coward when it comes to holding FN accountable for anything thats just our reality!!
trouble is Curt, without Equality ther will always be raceism.....
and the entire world has been taken over from someone at some time in history,, All humanity did horiffic shit... even First Nations.. You kept Slaves.
I am not trying to justify anything "White guy did" and i am not trying to turn a blind eye,,,, it was horrific.....
Raceism sucks.. both for you and me.... I am for Equality.....

Repay the debt of what happened by rebuilding your culture, not through handing extra rights... over top of the next guy.

[bruce44]

No it's not fair but it's the laws. That's why whenever I see a deer, moose or elk, I consider it a success because I did my job tracking. Even if I can't shoot it. I cannot control if they are legal.

[Cordillera]

Become familiar with "the aboriginal right to hunt", and Sec 35 of the Canadian constitution. I'm not saying that I like the fact that my rights are second to those of aboriginal ancestry, but I accept it as the way it's going to be here in Canada.

I totally agree that the indiscriminate killing of moose by First Nations will be the demise of either the species, or at very least populations large enough to be huntable by non-FNs. Very, very sad.

Reminder that the special rights granted to First Nations were promised by the King of the day through the Royal Proclamation of 1763. In essence the king promised special rights to First Nations, as nations, so they would fight with him. in hindsight, we might think he mad a bad deal, but one of the characteristics of our country is that you stick to your promises and you don't change the law when it's not longer convenient. The constitution act enshrined those special rights that had existed in common law and flowed from the royal proclamation for 200 years.

Of note is that we do have other "special rights" that are part of agreements made in the formation of this country. Things like a promise of a railway to the pacific, the right to separate schools based on language in Ontario, etc.

[.308SLAYER]

Dougan it guys like you why i know some natives especially like to express there hunting rights if anyone sounds like a cry baby its you buddy. From all the previous posts i really dont see anyone crying except the guy who origianally posted you guys must be buddies. Saying things like if the.germans came youd all b dead just shows how much of a racist prick you actually are if you have children are you going to raise them to hate all natives?? Canada is the way it is i have to buy tags and a licence and my mother is status it doesnt bug me none i have to hunt in season dont bug me none. It makes me very sad to see how people of this day and age can just throw all people into the same basket and call them bad or just simply dont like them.