Idea to help CO prevent poaching without BC spending a fortune

[alexboyprin]

Hi! I have been hunting in BC for 5 years and I never saw a CO! That means that if I had be so inclined, I could have poached and brought home many animals without any problems. I was thinking on how to better protect our wildlife. I understand that the province do not want to hire 2,000 COs at $50,000 Dollars per year each plus buy 1,000 Pickup trucks at also $50,000 Dollars each and build many offices and facilities because it would be too expensive. As a result, the COs rely on reporting from citizens. My idea? Why not install gates at the entrance of the main FSRs? This system has been used before and It was a big deterrent. I remember when I was 7 years old (I am 57 Y/o now!) Every time I was going hunting with adults, they were always "afraid of the gate"!

At the gate, there would be only one CO, who would politely ask you to open the trunk or to look inside your car or pick up! No fuss, no muss and cheap! No need for the CO to run around so much and burn gas.

No need for many COs and trucks! Gates! And everyone would be monitored, first nations included! Every one stop at the gate!

Big deterrent!

I would be interested in comments on that idea!

Thanks!
PS. After reading the comments, I realize that may be my ides is not practical. Sorry about this. Yet, I still hope that someone can come with a better system without infringing on our liberties.

[northernhunter]

Think it has a lot of flaws and bad idea. We get checked up north usually couple times a year. Start putting up more gates would be shit show, start hiking and go hunting for real

[skibum]

Why would you install a gate instead of just parking a CO there?

[Foxton Gundogs]

Like gates so much we have a pile here on the island you can have, just come and remove them.

[Big Lew]

I can't agree with the gate idea at all. If a gate's in place it can be locked, especially at the whim
of any authority, and for a variety of agendas not related to the hunting community. What happens
before and after the CO's shift is over, or if he/she is called away for whatever reason, including
attending court etc? We have many gates now that are locked for almost half a year that keep
recreationists from enjoying camping and fishing etc in the 'off' season at Recreation sites mostly
because of budget constraints.
I also haven't seen COs out in the field for many years although I have seen them set up on main
roads, often with RCMP as well. You can't get 'blood out of a stone'. The budget set for the whole
Conservation system has been reduced pathetically. Even a fellow like me on a modest retirement
pension would gladly pay more taxes if it were put toward having a heavier CO presence in the field.

[alexboyprin]

it makes it more formal? And I am not taking about all the steet gates we see blocking the entrance of FSR roads. I have them. No. I am talking about like a little office with instructions to stop for inspection. may be a bit like a very small border crossing.

[alexboyprin]

yes. I was not talking about that kind of gate. more like an inspection stop. a bit like a small border crossing manned by one CO. This kind of thing exist in many many countries and I suppose it works and its cheap.

[alexboyprin]

..you save a pick up. he can be drivien there and stay there. like a light house keeper :)

[RadHimself]

.... yea, like we need more gates....

kinda like we need more free-ranging cattle in the alpine

[alexboyprin]

may be I used the wrong words...my idea is more like a light house keeper. a man there, in a small cabin watching. cheaper than 2,000 COs in pick up trucks! No?

[alexboyprin]

not a locking gate. more like a small cabin, like the ones at the small border crossing manned by 3 men (one at a time 8 hours shifts). Acting as a deterrant. I saw that in Canada 50 years ago and I saw that in Thailand, laos and cambodia. even on main road. it keeps people honest! :) :)

[adriaticum]

The best thing to do I think is to punish willful poachers where it hurts.
$50,000 first fine, $100,000 second.

[alexboyprin]

yes. I was not talking about that kind of gate. more like an inspection stop. a bit like a small border crossing manned by one CO. This kind of thing exist in many many countries and I suppose it works and its cheap. And I do not like free ranging cattle too! :)

[scoutlt1]

I don't want to sound rude....but do you have any idea how many little "cabins" you would need to build/maintain/occupy if there was one on every "main" FSR in B.C.????

[MB_Boy]

I don't want to sound rude....but do you have any idea how many little "cabins" you would need to build/maintain/occupy if there was one on every "main" FSR in B.C.????


More than 2000???:tongue:

[Dannybuoy]

Are you under the impression there are only a few FSR's ? There are hundreds of main FSR 's in the Okanagan alone ..... ten's of thousands in BC . At present they do set up check stations at random fsr's from time to time .

[Dannybuoy]

I don't want to sound rude....but do you have any idea how many little "cabins" you would need to build/maintain/occupy if there was one on every "main" FSR in B.C.????
Beat me to the question ....

[M.Dean]

.... yea, like we need more gates....

kinda like we need more free-ranging cattle in the alpine Ya! Lets save all the alpine so we can pave over it and build massive foreign owned ski hills with hundreds of miles of torn up ground and stick a hole pile of towers up so these very rich owners can connect one alpine mnt. peak to another so they can make trillions of dollars from idiots that pay to slide down these "Defaced" Mountains! But No, because someone drove over a wild flower with a quad, I have to display a bloody number like a common criminal so I can be heavily fined so no one else runs over a flower with there quad! What was this thread about anyways??? I just woke up, and I'm bitchy when I just get up sometimes.

[alexboyprin]

The best thing to do I think is to punish willful poachers where it hurts.
$50,000 first fine, $100,000 second.

That is a good idea! I like it!

[Rackmastr]

I hope this is a post in jest and not serious.....

At the same time, we should put a police officer at the parking lot of every bar to check if anyone is impaired, or put them at the end of each street and they can check drivers to make sure they haven't been robbing houses while on that street???

LOL

[alexboyprin]

The best thing to do I think is to punish willful poachers where it hurts.
$50,000 first fine, $100,000 second.

..you know adriaticum, I was just trying to find some solutions to makes things better but I hear so many negatives comments here and even sarcasms, that is sad!

[IslandBC]

If i was a poacher and i knew there was only one CO at a certain gate i would be taking the backroad out... same road i came in on.

[IslandBC]

..you know adriaticum, I was just trying to find some solutions to makes things better but I hear so many negatives comments here and even sarcasms, that is sad!
I dont find that negative or sarcastic...

[alexboyprin]

I don't want to sound rude....but do you have any idea how many little "cabins" you would need to build/maintain/occupy if there was one on every "main" FSR in B.C.????
...you have a good point. may be build very basic small cabins. may be it would be still cheaper than expensive pick up truck, offices and many many COs...I am not sure...I was just trying to find innovative solutions.

[alexboyprin]

Are you under the impression there are only a few FSR's ? There are hundreds of main FSR 's in the Okanagan alone ..... ten's of thousands in BC . At present they do set up check stations at random fsr's from time to time .
I would do that on only the very main FSRs. it has to be a game of logic, like chess. you find the crucial roads.

[Rackmastr]

I would do that on only the very main FSRs. it has to be a game of logic, like chess. you find the crucial roads.

And then everyone knows where those are and avoids them. Seems like a pretty easy solution to a poacher. There are so many hundreds of 'very main FSRs' that go into a ton of country. It would require a 10-50x increase in officers hired and even then they would not be very effective sitting in a cabin at the end of a road where everyone knew they were.

[scoutlt1]

...you have a good point. may be build very basic small cabins. may be it would be still cheaper than expensive pick up truck, offices and many many COs...I am not sure...I was just trying to find innovative solutions.

Not my intent to sound negative really, but having a "checkpoint" at every or even some FS roads is simply not realistic.
There are tens of thousands of them. They would have to manned by COs. Starting wage for a CO is 50k/yr plus benefits, expenses, etc. They still need to be provided a vehicle. Every ticket, fine, arrest holds the potential for the CO having to prepare for, and attend a court case (meaning during that time a different (additional) CO will have to park at the FSR). Do we only post COs during hunting season?, year round?, and if only in the fall what do they all do the rest of the year? Etc. etc. etc.....

I'm not at all against thinking about and trying to find different or better solutions to enforcement of our game laws.
In my opinion however, this idea is simply not feasible.

Hit convicted poachers hard. Money and jail time!

[alexboyprin]

Ya! Lets save all the alpine so we can pave over it and build massive foreign owned ski hills with hundreds of miles of torn up ground and stick a hole pile of towers up so these very rich owners can connect one alpine mnt. peak to another so they can make trillions of dollars from idiots that pay to slide down these "Defaced" Mountains! But No, because someone drove over a wild flower with a quad, I have to display a bloody number like a common criminal so I can be heavily fined so no one else runs over a flower with there quad! What was this thread about anyways??? I just woke up, and I'm bitchy when I just get up sometimes.

...I do agree with you about quads licensing and the destruction of nature by ski resorts

[alexboyprin]

If i was a poacher and i knew there was only one CO at a certain gate i would be taking the backroad out... same road i came in on.
..me too...but it still makes poaches worry!

[alexboyprin]

I dont find that negative or sarcastic...
not your comments. other's comments..

[alexboyprin]

And then everyone knows where those are and avoids them. Seems like a pretty easy solution to a poacher. There are so many hundreds of 'very main FSRs' that go into a ton of country. It would require a 10-50x increase in officers hired and even then they would not be very effective sitting in a cabin at the end of a road where everyone knew they were.
...ok. well, I hope some day, some one can find an economical solution. Drones, may be?

[alexboyprin]

Not my intent to sound negative really, but having a "checkpoint" at every or even some FS roads is simply not realistic.
There are tens of thousands of them. They would have to manned by COs. Starting wage for a CO is 50k/yr plus benefits, expenses, etc. They still need to be provided a vehicle. Every ticket, fine, arrest holds the potential for the CO having to prepare for, and attend a court case (meaning during that time a different (additional) CO will have to park at the FSR). Do we only post COs during hunting season?, year round?, and if only in the fall what do they all do the rest of the year? Etc. etc. etc.....

I'm not at all against thinking about and trying to find different or better solutions to enforcement of our game laws.
In my opinion however, this idea is simply not feasible.

Hit convicted poachers hard. Money and jail time!

...I understand...not easy. only if they would have the right to place "bodies" there in the check point at $10.00 /hours. but no. eh..i just tought about that....may be one day they can use drones. flying drones?

[albravo2]

I think the hunting terrain and access points in BC are far too varied to have a functional funnel that would be effective.

The CO's set up a block on the one road into the Squamish Valley every year but that is a couple days on a tiny fraction of the huntable wilderness up here.

[Sharpish]

Gates suck. Poachers are gonna poach. Gates or not.

[Boner]

The most economical way I saw them operate was to block off a main artery going into PG and checking everyone. It was very quick. A cop was there for the drinkers. The tow trucks are busy when the CO's and RCMP tag team a road like this.

[boxhitch]

...ok. well, I hope some day, some one can find an economical solution. Solution to what ? Not sure what you are trying to solve here.
Unregulated hunting has been going on for ever , and there are still critters to hunt .
There are Lots of bigger problems for wildlife

[russm]

Not that I poach anything but I don't particularly want my truck gone through everytime I go up a back road, it would be nice if there was more COs around, I've been hunting for 5 years and have never seen one in the bush, they seem to frequent our local Tim hortons though.

[Sofa King]

this is exactly what the CO's have been doing for years.
they sit at the bottom of the fsrs where they meet the pavement and wait for everyone to come out.
and, they sit just outside of towns so they can then get everyone coming through the entire area.

[Sofa King]

Not that I poach anything but I don't particularly want my truck gone through everytime I go up a back road, it would be nice if there was more COs around, I've been hunting for 5 years and have never seen one in the bush, they seem to frequent our local Tim hortons though.

same here.
they seem to avoid the woods like the plague, and it can't just be a funding thing.
it's like CVSE vehicles as well, I'd prefer to see them actually patrolling the roads, not just sitting at well-known spots doing nothing more than speed-traps really, which are totally ineffective anyway, because one truck goes by and sees it then radios to everyone else where he is and all is wonderful.
I would much prefer that the enforcers were out patrolling and trying to prevent those bad things from happening rather than sitting and waiting/hoping the baddies might come by.

[TrickleCharger]

I hope this is a post in jest and not serious.....

At the same time, we should put a police officer at the parking lot of every bar to check if anyone is impaired, or put them at the end of each street and they can check drivers to make sure they haven't been robbing houses while on that street???

LOL

I've never understood why cops don't set up at bars and everybody who drives out. Obviously the businesses wouldn't like it but it would be pretty effective and seems realistic in terms of manpower.

Back on topic, I've been hunting for 5 or 6 years and never stopped by a CO. I don't like this check stop idea and there are way too many roads for it to work, but I agree that somehow more enforcement is needed.

[Sofa King]

I've never understood why cops don't set up at bars and everybody who drives out. Obviously the businesses wouldn't like it but it would be pretty effective and seems realistic in terms of manpower.

Back on topic, I've been hunting for 5 or 6 years and never stopped by a CO. I don't like this check stop idea and there are way too many roads for it to work, but I agree that somehow more enforcement is needed.

oh they do.
they used to do that at the creekside pub a lot.

[Squamch]

Laos and Thailand are not what I would call bastions of human rights. Hardly good examples of effective policing.

I realize this opens up the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about!" argument, but I am not into having my vehicle searched in hopes I will reveal myself as a criminal. I didn't like it as a teenager getting breathalyzed at a roadblock, or my car searched because it "smells like pot," and I don't like it now.
Law enforcement fishing expeditions are not something I welcome or support, whether im
on my way home from hunting or from lunch at the pub. I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone so flock right off!

[Sofa King]

Laos and Thailand are not what I would call bastions of human rights. Hardly good examples of effective policing.

I realize this opens up the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about!" argument, but I am not into having my vehicle searched in hopes I will reveal myself as a criminal. I didn't like it as a teenager getting breathalyzed at a roadblock, or my car searched because it "smells like pot," and I don't like it now.
Law enforcement fishing expeditions are not something I welcome or support, whether im
on my way home from hunting or from lunch at the pub. I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone so flock right off!

I agree.
it used to be one got pulled over because they actually did something wrong.
now, they've just become lazy.

[RadHimself]

I get harassed weekly around lumby cuz the locals know i roll around with a rifle in my truck most of the time... "Good morning, going hunting" good evening, been hunting?

Oh this is t your truck... Nope, its my old ladies, same with the rzr in the box...

well, have a nice evening


im no poacher, never have been never will be. But i have got fined for having a clip in my gun. (Long day, long hike, gun was in the scabbord of my eberlestock" i find it pretty suspicious when i see an old beat up 4x4 with two sketchy lookin old dudes coming down the mtn @ 4am when im going up, they got a canopy on and its draggin the back bumper... Yellow 70's ford and ive seen it damn near every season coming down douglas lake, whiteman, beaula, ingram or bear.... Tell a CO "oh there probably ranchers heading home from Doug Lake.... Yea RIGHT


Oh well, we have some amazing terrain at our disposal... Seems as though as residents we keep losing our right to it. But its ok for ski resorts, ranhers to run unpenned cattle allthe way up to twin lakes and sitkum lake. Snowmobilers go wherever they want. Bear creek chargers to ride on old logging roads...

[northernhunter]

I think the best. Resources we have are ourselves in the bush. Like most on here seems like a stupid idea. No need to give some more beurocrats more stupid ways to spend our tax money. Done with this thread

[alexboyprin]

Laos and Thailand are not what I would call bastions of human rights. Hardly good examples of effective policing.

I realize this opens up the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about!" argument, but I am not into having my vehicle searched in hopes I will reveal myself as a criminal. I didn't like it as a teenager getting breathalyzed at a roadblock, or my car searched because it "smells like pot," and I don't like it now.
Law enforcement fishing expeditions are not something I welcome or support, whether im
on my way home from hunting or from lunch at the pub. I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone so flock right off!

I agree. then, I hope one day a good solution can be find that will satisfy everyone.

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Ya! Lets save all the alpine so we can pave over it and build massive foreign owned ski hills with hundreds of miles of torn up ground and stick a hole pile of towers up so these very rich owners can connect one alpine mnt. peak to another so they can make trillions of dollars from idiots that pay to slide down these "Defaced" Mountains! But No, because someone drove over a wild flower with a quad, I have to display a bloody number like a common criminal so I can be heavily fined so no one else runs over a flower with there quad! What was this thread about anyways??? I just woke up, and I'm bitchy when I just get up sometimes.


M. Dean, from what I've seen, you're a great contributor to this site, so I'm going to be as diplomatic as I can muster. You may very well know a lot about a lot of things, but obviously, it's not about the approval process for ski hills or the ski industry. 1) Profitability of ski hills is at an all time low and has been for some time. 2) If people are gonna ski (lift based), it pretty has to be on "defaced mountains". 3) People's choice to ski as recreation is no less valid than yours to quad all over hell's half acre. If I had to speak broadly, I'd say I know more "idiots" that are die hard ATVers than skiers. 4) The Province has the ability to restrict the number of agreements it issues for ski hill development, but it had no way to regulate ATV use prior to the ORV Act. 5) The ORV Act was not created because someone drove over a wild flower, it was created because legions of motorhead sh!tbrained embiciles have been abusing their privilege to enjoy our wilderness for two decades now, by digging the shite out of our backwoods from valley-bottom to mountaintop. I say this in full recognition of the fact that there are responsible ATVers, and you may very well be one of them. 6) Do you feel like having your license plate on your truck makes you treated like a common criminal? It's the same thing! 7) If you don't do anything wrong, you won't be "heavily fined".


Back to our regular programming in progress...

[lightmag]

how about cash rewards for reporting poachers and violations ....

[honeyman76]

I think one of the best solutions out there right now, that would cost the Province zero extra $$'S is for good people to Observe, record, and then report illegal activity. Normal people out in the bush are in the 1000s already. We out number the bad guys ten fold. If everyone of us took a pen and paper out there and recorded what we see that is wrong, the bad guys would probably give up. One CO covering this ridiculous area where i live is a joke. So, the only other solution if for us to help out when we can and gather the best evidence we can when we see bad stuff happening. The small post idea on each road, in a world where Charter or Rights and pay equity are issues, wouldn't work. Plus, they have WCB regulations regarding checking/working alone etc etc etc. No, we all need to do more. Even write down all the plate numbers you guys see out in the woods would help. You just never know when they will come in handy.

[Sofa King]

how about cash rewards for reporting poachers and violations ....

nope.
they always find a way not to pay.
just like it's "if it leads to a successful conviction".
it's not the reporter's problem if the justice system then can't get it done.
that's bullshit.
or, there's lots of times a person reports something yet they don't respond.
and how about the great "anonymous" tip.
how can I collect my cash if I'm anonymous?

[SSG-man]

Catching is not the problem, it's convicting.
We need enough deterrence to make people not want to take that chance.

[Sofa King]

I think one of the best solutions out there right now, that would cost the Province zero extra $$'S is for good people to Observe, record, and then report illegal activity. Normal people out in the bush are in the 1000s already. We out number the bad guys ten fold. If everyone of us took a pen and paper out there and recorded what we see that is wrong, the bad guys would probably give up. One CO covering this ridiculous area where i live is a joke. So, the only other solution if for us to help out when we can and gather the best evidence we can when we see bad stuff happening. The small post idea on each road, in a world where Charter or Rights and pay equity are issues, wouldn't work. Plus, they have WCB regulations regarding checking/working alone etc etc etc. No, we all need to do more. Even write down all the plate numbers you guys see out in the woods would help. You just never know when they will come in handy.

complete crap.
they get paid to do this, not me.
if we are needed to get the job done, then scrap them altogether.
the dumbest thing ever is goofballs out there writing everyone's plates down and making supposed criminals out of us all.

you guys are acting like there's no animals left out there.
besides, there's a group of people who are allowed to kill anything they want whenever they want to.
that's a WAYY bigger problem to the animals populations than any poaching that is going on.

[Fisher-Dude]

Documents, please!


http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/An-Afghan-policeman-checks-a-man-at-the-main-gate-of-the-joint-base-where-two-British-soldiers-were-killed-Monday.jpg

[Sofa King]

Documents, please!


http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/An-Afghan-policeman-checks-a-man-at-the-main-gate-of-the-joint-base-where-two-British-soldiers-were-killed-Monday.jpg

haha.
yup, pretty much.
can't believe some people are actually thinking this would be a good idea.
guys are complaining about the libs and new gun laws, guys are complaining about roads being blocked/gated, then some want to have all our fsrs gated and frisky pat-pats at them???????

[Beaverhunter]

I don't want to sound rude....but do you have any idea how many little "cabins" you would need to build/maintain/occupy if there was one on every "main" FSR in B.C.????

And if you were a poacher would you not just go to a u gated road with no CO?

[Sofa King]

And if you were a poacher would you not just go to a u gated road with no CO?

I think it's getting way blown out of proportion here.
pretty sure there's not poachers going poachin' every weekend, or maybe there is, but I don't think it's epidemic.
more of a problem is people shooting unconfirmed animals and then leaving them once they see what they shot.
and those people aren't driving out with anything, so roadchecks do nothing to ever stop those things.

[300rum700]

Until you stop the "legal" poaching I wouldn't worry about the illegal poaching. What you see is only a drop in the bucket compared to what actually goes on. Sustenance my ass.

[RadHimself]

yeah the ORV act was brought in to control the ATV's eh....

you dont think it was to grab cash?

u can point the finger at quads and atv's all you want... but once you see what a dirtbike trail looks like after 30 years... and what free-range cattle do to a drainage in one season, you will eat your words

the bikes didnt wreck the bush... it was the f*ck'n cows.

all the ORV act has done is cost US money to ride on deactivated logging roads... but u get a map, and u gotta pay to camp.

the same crap went down in ontario and now it's moving here.


As far as poachers... well, there are those few that pretend to be FN.. there's also a few FN that offer "Dont be afraid to kill what you want, i'll just say i was with you"

the natives have had enough givin to them over the years.. enough is enough.

new immigrants get their first five years here tax free... natives get school etc etc etc for free. yet we wonder why the country is broke. Cut them all off, give 5 years tax free to STUDENTS fresh outta college or UNI so they can actually get a start on life.
EVERYONE has to abide by the seasons. bag limits cud be the thing that sets us apart... but whenever wherever is a crock of crap... same as using a truck, a light and a .303,30-06 and the FN/Poacher favorite .22 is "traditional technique"...

maybe it's cause im Metis and im jealous... where's my free sh!t anyway? i wanna start killing moose at the end of september and fill the warehouse in the back of Little Kingdom store like the rest of my Cuzzin's.....

[alexboyprin]

I think one of the best solutions out there right now, that would cost the Province zero extra $$'S is for good people to Observe, record, and then report illegal activity. Normal people out in the bush are in the 1000s already. We out number the bad guys ten fold. If everyone of us took a pen and paper out there and recorded what we see that is wrong, the bad guys would probably give up. One CO covering this ridiculous area where i live is a joke. So, the only other solution if for us to help out when we can and gather the best evidence we can when we see bad stuff happening. The small post idea on each road, in a world where Charter or Rights and pay equity are issues, wouldn't work. Plus, they have WCB regulations regarding checking/working alone etc etc etc. No, we all need to do more. Even write down all the plate numbers you guys see out in the woods would help. You just never know when they will come in handy.
...ii is a good idea. but if I report someone activity, I want to be 100% sure that they did something wrong. so, I never reported anything because I was not sure of what I saw. for example...one time at dusk during the 4 points only, I saw, across the valley, a pick up of which I knew the owner shoot at an animal (I heard the shot) then I saw the pick up approached the presumed dead animal. It got dark and they came back the next morning to retrieve the animal (I still presume). the question is: Was it really a 4 points?? How can I know? why would I go ask them? why would I send them the CO to verify? I am not sure, so, I keep my mouth shot. as for writing the llicense plate of everyone I see...I can't bring myself to do that. I would feel like a spy. but, I agree that if we see something wrong we should report

[alexboyprin]

Documents, please!


http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/An-Afghan-policeman-checks-a-man-at-the-main-gate-of-the-joint-base-where-two-British-soldiers-were-killed-Monday.jpg
..very funny! anyways...that is not want I suggested. not something so harsh. it is difficult to explain but I am the last one who want to be search and frisked.

[alexboyprin]

I think it's getting way blown out of proportion here.
pretty sure there's not poachers going poachin' every weekend, or maybe there is, but I don't think it's epidemic.
more of a problem is people shooting unconfirmed animals and then leaving them once they see what they shot.
and those people aren't driving out with anything, so roadchecks do nothing to ever stop those things.
that is right. those rules (counting the points) are a liability to the honest hunter. if you take your chance, you expose yourself to be prosecuted. may be they should relax the rules so to let the hunter hunt in peace of mind. they put too much burden on the honest man. everytime I want to shoot a 4 points I agonize for minutes, counting the points...then, the deer is gone...and I will never know if ii could have shoot or not

[alexboyprin]

Until you stop the "legal" poaching I wouldn't worry about the illegal poaching. What you see is only a drop in the bucket compared to what actually goes on. Sustenance my ass.

I agree. it is the legal poaching that is the problem but I hesitated to say it :).

[Looking_4_Jerky]

yeah the ORV act was brought in to control the ATV's eh....

you dont think it was to grab cash?

u can point the finger at quads and atv's all you want... but once you see what a dirtbike trail looks like after 30 years... and what free-range cattle do to a drainage in one season, you will eat your words

the bikes didnt wreck the bush... it was the f*ck'n cows.

all the ORV act has done is cost US money to ride on deactivated logging roads... but u get a map, and u gotta pay to camp.

the same crap went down in ontario and now it's moving here.


As far as poachers... well, there are those few that pretend to be FN.. there's also a few FN that offer "Dont be afraid to kill what you want, i'll just say i was with you"

the natives have had enough givin to them over the years.. enough is enough.

new immigrants get their first five years here tax free... natives get school etc etc etc for free. yet we wonder why the country is broke. Cut them all off, give 5 years tax free to STUDENTS fresh outta college or UNI so they can actually get a start on life.
EVERYONE has to abide by the seasons. bag limits cud be the thing that sets us apart... but whenever wherever is a crock of crap... same as using a truck, a light and a .303,30-06 and the FN/Poacher favorite .22 is "traditional technique"...

maybe it's cause im Metis and im jealous... where's my free sh!t anyway? i wanna start killing moose at the end of september and fill the warehouse in the back of Little Kingdom store like the rest of my Cuzzin's.....

I know the person that was is charge of creating and implementing the ORV Act. Not a cash grab. Everybody recognized that it was going to cost us money, but that it was unfortunately necessary to stop unregulated and irresponsible/dangerous ORV use.

As for free-ranging cattle, you don't have to convince me that they should lock the fat-*******s up on the owner's private land and they can destroy that. And I don't mean leased land, I mean fee-simple only. Quit tying up tracts of land that exclude all other users for pennies an acre returning to the Crown!

... and your idea of giving post-secondary program graduates a period of tax-free income may be the best idea I've ever heard!

[honeyman76]

complete crap.
they get paid to do this, not me.
if we are needed to get the job done, then scrap them altogether.
the dumbest thing ever is goofballs out there writing everyone's plates down and making supposed criminals out of us all.
you guys are acting like there's no animals left out there.
besides, there's a group of people who are allowed to kill anything they want whenever they want to.
that's a WAYY bigger problem to the animals populations than any poaching that is going on.


Can't help ignorance and I can't sit back and read your crap and not comment. So, you (Sofa King and people with attitudes like you) see somebody smash out a window in somebodies car, or maybe you see somebody getting the crap kicked out of them Sofa King, but no police around? "Well, I don't get paid to do the job of a cop, so ef it?"" Really man??!! Is that truly how you feel. You see some guy shoot a two point in 4 point season. His truck is parked 10 feet from you and you won't bother to get the plate number due to your ignorance?? Come on! Why? Because its not your job. You don't get paid to do the job of a Conservation Officer? My theory is this, if you look after the small stuff, ie turning in what you see to the CO, then you look after the bigger stuff too.

[steveo]

I have used RAPP hotline and thought it was rather useless. There should be more than enough money through licensing alone to put more COs out in the bush but the government has to put the money back where it came from instead of snatching it for general revenue.

[honeyman76]

There hasn't been enough money put into Wildlife Enforcement for years. I think that was the whole point of the poster on this, looking at ways to assist law enforcement catch the bad guys. Even if we had here in my town two or three covering this monster area, it still wouldn't be enough. Thus citizens need to take part and assist. I don't see any other way.

[okas]

ha ha ha what about the afternoon shift .. and really who would they higher that new anything.... but i have a uniform and a gun ...... most due not even know the rules

[honeyman76]

They have better training now then the past. Aside from that, nothing trumps experience.

[steveo]

Usually with a lot of threads like this problems and solutions are location related. Through out the province there are definitely different needs and concerns that won't be fixed with only one blanket solution. My understanding of the bulk of the OPs point is to use the little money the COs budget consists of by making a commitment of putting cabins at check points instead of more trucks and COs. Don't get me wrong something is better than nothing but check points don't address the fisherman using a baited barbed-hook on a stretch of river that is closed to fishing or the hunter that shoots game in a no shooting area or the trapper that uses illegal traps on the trapline. When they show up at the check point all game/fish is accounted for with matching licenses and tags so have a nice day and you are on your way. COs need to be in the field enforcing regulations or they mean nothing. I realize the ministry has been cut back for years but we shouldn't accept it , putting money back into wildlife and policing it are the only way. I don't believe for the most part the rules and regulations laid out for the lawful hunters are being abused to the extent that our wildlife is paying a huge price for it. We have to identify who the bad guys are and what factors are contributing negatively to our wildlife to start, so we can make decisions that make a difference. To me, from my experience, the RAPP hotline may have some merit but is more like a goodwill gesture from the government to show that they care.

[honeyman76]

Usually with a lot of threads like this problems and solutions are location related. Through out the province there are definitely different needs and concerns that won't be fixed with only one blanket solution. My understanding of the bulk of the OPs point is to use the little money the COs budget consists of by making a commitment of putting cabins at check points instead of more trucks and COs. Don't get me wrong something is better than nothing but check points don't address the fisherman using a baited barbed-hook on a stretch of river that is closed to fishing or the hunter that shoots game in a no shooting area or the trapper that uses illegal traps on the trapline. When they show up at the check point all game/fish is accounted for with matching licenses and tags so have a nice day and you are on your way. COs need to be in the field enforcing regulations or they mean nothing. I realize the ministry has been cut back for years but we shouldn't accept it , putting money back into wildlife and policing it are the only way. I don't believe for the most part the rules and regulations laid out for the lawful hunters are being abused to the extent that our wildlife is paying a huge price for it. We have to identify who the bad guys are and what factors are contributing negatively to our wildlife to start, so we can make decisions that make a difference. To me, from my experience, the RAPP hotline may have some merit but is more like a goodwill gesture from the government to show that they care.

Well said Steveo. The RAPP line really is similar to Police Dispatch in some ways. People need to report in order for it to be effective.

[HarryToolips]

I have used RAPP hotline and thought it was rather useless. There should be more than enough money through licensing alone to put more COs out in the bush but the government has to put the money back where it came from instead of snatching it for general revenue.
I agree that the govt needs to spend more on a CO officer budget, instead of putting it into general revenue, but I disagree that RAPP is useless..I have used it on 2 occasions, both times I had CO's phoning me asking me for specific info...

[HarryToolips]

Can't help ignorance and I can't sit back and read your crap and not comment. So, you (Sofa King and people with attitudes like you) see somebody smash out a window in somebodies car, or maybe you see somebody getting the crap kicked out of them Sofa King, but no police around? "Well, I don't get paid to do the job of a cop, so ef it?"" Really man??!! Is that truly how you feel. You see some guy shoot a two point in 4 point season. His truck is parked 10 feet from you and you won't bother to get the plate number due to your ignorance?? Come on! Why? Because its not your job. You don't get paid to do the job of a Conservation Officer? My theory is this, if you look after the small stuff, ie turning in what you see to the CO, then you look after the bigger stuff too.
I agree with this...we have to all deputize ourselves, and use RAPP....at this time it's our only option, correct me if I'm wrong..

[Bugle M In]

Now with the introduction of licensing of ORV, this might keep the RAPP lines a little less busy!??
Sorry to all the legit users of ORV's, but sadly, this is the result of some ORV user consistently breaking the
rules, even after being told what the rules are.
RAPP is useful, and does help the CO's and ultimately us, the ethical hunter.
I've been lucky to know a great CO out of Invermere, who really does care about hunters/wildlife, so I have always
had a direct email line with him.
And they do take the calls seriously.
The unfortunate thing is, they a really swamped with investigations, as is the case right at the moment.
This is why more of "OUR" hunting license and game tag fees should go to funding more CO/Investigators.
Don't even get me started on habitat funding!!!

[Sofa King]

that is right. those rules (counting the points) are a liability to the honest hunter. if you take your chance, you expose yourself to be prosecuted. may be they should relax the rules so to let the hunter hunt in peace of mind. they put too much burden on the honest man. everytime I want to shoot a 4 points I agonize for minutes, counting the points...then, the deer is gone...and I will never know if ii could have shoot or not

thats not a liability, its the rules.
the restrictions are in place for reasons.
thecproblem is in the hunters who refuse to wait to properly identify the animal.

[Sofa King]

Can't help ignorance and I can't sit back and read your crap and not comment. So, you (Sofa King and people with attitudes like you) see somebody smash out a window in somebodies car, or maybe you see somebody getting the crap kicked out of them Sofa King, but no police around? "Well, I don't get paid to do the job of a cop, so ef it?"" Really man??!! Is that truly how you feel. You see some guy shoot a two point in 4 point season. His truck is parked 10 feet from you and you won't bother to get the plate number due to your ignorance?? Come on! Why? Because its not your job. You don't get paid to do the job of a Conservation Officer? My theory is this, if you look after the small stuff, ie turning in what you see to the CO, then you look after the bigger stuff too.

relax nancy.
as usual, someone reading intovmy post what isnt even there and making their own shit up and trying to imply i said that.
i said what i said in response to what i see. locally, the CO truck sits at home almost every day of the year, and when it does move, it goes 1 minute from his house and sets up shop beside the forestry building at the edge of town. or, in the summer, he goes out on nicola lake and fines a guy trolling for kokanee for not having a flashlight on his boat. it would be nice to see a little bigger effort on their part to be doing more good. instead, they want to do less it seems and put more onus on us, the public.
i never said i wouldnt report something blatantly illegal that i see, i have on several occasions, and will continue to do so. but some of those calls have also been ignored and mistreated by them.
and about the plates, read what the guy suggested, he said to write down the plates of every vehicle you see in the bush. thats going way overboard and suggesting everyone is a criminal.
so piss off with making up assumptions of what i would really do and what my attitude is.
im against people thinking we need to treat everyone as a criminal, im against taking away what freedoms we still have, and against paid enforcement doing less and less but wanting us to do more and more.

[Tikka260]

..very funny! anyways...that is not want I suggested. not something so harsh. it is difficult to explain but I am the last one who want to be search and frisked.

Just have a talk with anyone who live 1/2 their life in one of these places
Kids told to spy on their parents...
Women are never safe...

[steveo]

I agree that the govt needs to spend more on a CO officer budget, instead of putting it into general revenue, but I disagree that RAPP is useless..I have used it on 2 occasions, both times I had CO's phoning me asking me for specific info...
In theory the RAPP should work but it's effectiveness is limited to its usage and the skill set of the caller. With out being a deputy you can really only report what is blatantly illegal and even with that said, the RAPP is bound by the system it caters to which is under funded and under manned. If the volume of calls about a specific area were to be investigated with targeted efforts with out taking away from the annual budget I would say thumbs up. The way it was explained to me is all these calls are answered to with the same budget they have to work with all year so even the best reporting will be met with lack of funding and man power.

[Phil]

Can I request a CO in each cabin that looks like Hitler?
Maybe a few German shepards on chains.

WTF....Is it April fools yet?

[RadHimself]

i love a good debate.... im with sofaking on all of this

[HarryToolips]

In theory the RAPP should work but it's effectiveness is limited to its usage and the skill set of the caller. With out being a deputy you can really only report what is blatantly illegal and even with that said, the RAPP is bound by the system it caters to which is under funded and under manned. If the volume of calls about a specific area were to be investigated with targeted efforts with out taking away from the annual budget I would say thumbs up. The way it was explained to me is all these calls are answered to with the same budget they have to work with all year so even the best reporting will be met with lack of funding and man power.
Well from my experience with it, when I gave them the necessary info over the phone, the CO's called me and did their due diligence to investigate..

[alexboyprin]

Just have a talk with anyone who live 1/2 their life in one of these places
Kids told to spy on their parents...
Women are never safe...

...I lived 20 years in south East Asia and I have never been molested even though there are road blocks anywhere. People are not so crazy. except, may be in the middle east! :)

[cmarrie]

The CO's do good work. Considering how much of their time is spent dealing with problem wildlife complaints in cities and towns, it's impressive how much enforcement a relatively small number of people can do. They are a motivated group of officers for sure. Names of all the violators they've busted found here: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/research-monitoring-reporting/reporting/environmental-enforcement-reporting/quarterly-environmental-enforcement-summary
(http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/research-monitoring-reporting/reporting/environmental-enforcement-reporting/quarterly-environmental-enforcement-summary)

[steve-r]

Probably been suggested in another thread but why not add a huge fee to the license of the foreign trophy hunters, and commit the additional revenue to CO enforcement?

[khoffnbud]

Hi! I have been hunting in BC for 5 years and I never saw a CO! That means that if I had be so inclined, I could have poached and brought home many animals without any problems. I was thinking on how to better protect our wildlife. I understand that the province do not want to hire 2,000 COs at $50,000 Dollars per year each plus buy 1,000 Pickup trucks at also $50,000 Dollars each and build many offices and facilities because it would be too expensive. As a result, the COs rely on reporting from citizens. My idea? Why not install gates at the entrance of the main FSRs? This system has been used before and It was a big deterrent. I remember when I was 7 years old (I am 57 Y/o now!) Every time I was going hunting with adults, they were always "afraid of the gate"!

At the gate, there would be only one CO, who would politely ask you to open the trunk or to look inside your car or pick up! No fuss, no muss and cheap! No need for the CO to run around so much and burn gas.

No need for many COs and trucks! Gates! And everyone would be monitored, first nations included! Every one stop at the gate!

Big deterrent!

I would be interested in comments on that idea!

Thanks!
PS. After reading the comments, I realize that may be my ides is not practical. Sorry about this. Yet, I still hope that someone can come with a better system without infringing on our liberties.

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx271/khoffnbud/164DB8E6-80AE-4B88-ADD3-DA047EBDB0EF_zpsujfnnguk.png (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/khoffnbud/media/164DB8E6-80AE-4B88-ADD3-DA047EBDB0EF_zpsujfnnguk.png.html)

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/webkit-fake-url://c8b7061e-8825-4d5b-9b54-14b968fc803c/imagepng

[Daybreak]

Well Alexboyprin, it appears something positive may arise from your original post. I have it from reliable sources that a conference call was undertaken this afternoon with CO's and the Minister of Natural Resources.

They have outlined a tentative plan to deputize qualified individuals and increase the number of enforcement agents in the 8 regions.

Qualifying is going to be the biggest hurdle to overcome;

You have to be over 55 with a minimum of 15 consecutive hunting licences on record.
You have to be extremely cantankerous - bordering on miserable.
Vision of 15/12 is required.
A four wheel drive vehicle no later than 1974 that runs most of the time is required, or a motorized wheel chair equipped with chains and sand bags. Walkers and canes will considered however a Spot device must be attached to the fore mentioned.

Night owls are preferred, (who sleeps at that age anyways?)

Paint ball guns and flashlights will be provided for marking suspect vehicles although balls and batteries will be the responsibility of the deputy.
A stipend of $400 monthly will be provided for fuel, worn out walker feet and daily de-briefings at Tim Hortons.
There is no salary and SAR will not be called if a deputy has fallen down and unable to get up.


Apparently a few members here have their applications in already and are awaiting approval.

[Tikka260]

...I lived 20 years in south East Asia and I have never been molested even though there are road blocks anywhere. People are not so crazy. except, may be in the middle east! :)

Asia?
i was referring instead to a former soviet block country
And comments from several people who grew up there back in the "heyday"

[Xenomorph]

Why would you install a gate instead of just parking a CO there?

Because of the "gate" effect. Whatever that is.



The best thing to do I think is to punish willful poachers where it hurts.
$50,000 first fine, $100,000 second.

That I agree with wholeheartedly.



Ya! Lets save all the alpine so we can pave over it and build massive foreign owned ski hills with hundreds of miles of torn up ground and stick a hole pile of towers up so these very rich owners can connect one alpine mnt. peak to another so they can make trillions of dollars from idiots that pay to slide down these "Defaced" Mountains! But No, because someone drove over a wild flower with a quad, I have to display a bloody number like a common criminal so I can be heavily fined so no one else runs over a flower with there quad! What was this thread about anyways??? I just woke up, and I'm bitchy when I just get up sometimes.

I wish I was close enough to bring you a double espresso. Some points valid, some ...needing caffeine.



...ok. well, I hope some day, some one can find an economical solution. Drones, may be?

You seriously need to lay off this man.


how about cash rewards for reporting poachers and violations ....

Don't think it's feasible due to "if charged" BS


Well Alexboyprin, it appears something positive may arise from your original post. I have it from reliable sources that a conference call was undertaken this afternoon with CO's and the Minister of Natural Resources.

They have outlined a tentative plan to deputize qualified individuals and increase the number of enforcement agents in the 8 regions.

Qualifying is going to be the biggest hurdle to overcome;

You have to be over 55 with a minimum of 15 consecutive hunting licences on record.
You have to be extremely cantankerous - bordering on miserable.
Vision of 15/12 is required.
A four wheel drive vehicle no later than 1974 that runs most of the time is required, or a motorized wheel chair equipped with chains and sand bags. Walkers and canes will considered however a Spot device must be attached to the fore mentioned.

Night owls are preferred, (who sleeps at that age anyways?)

Paint ball guns and flashlights will be provided for marking suspect vehicles although balls and batteries will be the responsibility of the deputy.
A stipend of $400 monthly will be provided for fuel, worn out walker feet and daily de-briefings at Tim Hortons.
There is no salary and SAR will not be called if a deputy has fallen down and unable to get up.


Apparently a few members here have their applications in already and are awaiting approval.

I literally cracked up laughing like an idiot in the middle of the office. Well done.


Alex, do yourself a favour and go deeper and higher in the bush where the annoying poachers and perceived FN abusers won't harm your sense of justice so much. FFS, the forest is full of them animals to hunt.

[SWD]

Want to help co prevent poaching!
Give them the right to arrest and,confiscate equipment when people poach .
Including natives or any race.
But government is scared to,politically incorrect!

Reported poacher,5years ago to tip line.
Took 3 years to find out,he was native.
So nothing was done!

Killed cow and calf moose.

Moose populations are being decimated in many areas!
But it is politically incorrect to stop this ,as it is still happening!

[Xenomorph]

Want to help co prevent poaching!
Give them the right to arrest and,confiscate equipment when people poach .
Including natives or any race.
But government is scared to,politically incorrect!

Reported poacher,5years ago to tip line.
Took 3 years to find out,he was native.
So nothing was done!

Killed cow and calf moose.

Moose populations are being decimated in many areas!
But it is politically incorrect to stop this ,as it is still happening!

You got a concrete case for this? Bring it up to Crown Prosecutor. Get together, lobby for change. I don't think there's any "ceremonial" justification for that, taking a cow and calf. But then again, what do I know, I'm just another immigrant.