Help me raise shit

[curt]

So the short story spent most of the summer communicating with co,s biologist and studying google earth had our spot all figured out only to go 100 km off the grid to find canfor had put a locked gate and has restricted access no way around because of river and apparently thanks to a couple of smug arrogant asshats for the info cantor only gives out the key to the guide outfitter and apparently their employees and their buddies WHAT resident priority program what I want any email contact you can think of government wildlife branch bio,s politicians they are getting my email on this oh ya forestry ministers anyone you got throw them my way I'll put my letter on here when I'm done mother f ers are going to know my name shortly

[The Dawg]

Resident Priority Program can only act when they know of the access issues.

Message me details

[303savage]

Gates wouldn't be a problem if a FEW ass hats didn't steal everything that wasn't welded down and shoot up machines and it takes only one or two to screw it up for everybody else.

[adriaticum]

I have no idea what you just said.
How about the long story?

[curt]

There is nothing beyond the gate canfor decided it was s sensitive wildlife habitat yet the province still allows hunting and even vehicle access if your in bed with canfor

[jessonml]

Punctuation is important when one attempts to 'raise shit'.

[curt]

We were restricted from an area by a canfor gate in the middle of fing nowhere yet the local guide and canfor employees can use the gate we know this because there was canfor employees on the other side of the gate hunting they talked to us I almost slapped the ignorant dinks I am asking members of this forum to send me some email contact info for wildlife management forestry management biologists politicians bc wildlife federation brass anyone who might have the slightest bit of interest I'm want to add to the email I'm sending about how much this is bullshit

[Seeker]

Punctuation is important when one attempts to 'raise shit'.
^^^^really!

[curt]

Don't worry I'll edit later guy I'm not in the mood for smartass guys help if you can or beat it

[Seeker]

Don't worry I'll edit later guy I'm not in the mood for smartass guys help if you can or beat it
.............x2, I hope you find some answers. This is a perfect reason to be angry. Unacceptable if what you say is true.

[dakoda62]

I know its being asshlish but jam the lock with toothpick and superglue. Now they are locked in.

[Gateholio]

What region is this in?

[curt]

This was in 7 b 14 hour drive to be screwed by a forest company makes me very angry and yes everything is 100 % true I'll put my letter on here when drafted I still need email addresses help a brother out if you have any

[j270wsm]

I don't have any emails........but I've seen those yellow gates removed a few times

[lwing]

Just cut the lock, little inverter in your truck, Dremel with a zip cutter, go hunt.
If there's machinery or logging I understand, stay out. If it's there private playground, go join them.
contacting politicians will just frustrate you more, and nothing will be done.

[Daybreak]

I can't fathom your frustration. All that planning, research, driving, time and money invested only to be turned around by someone's idea of a private game reserve of which you are not a member.

Be diplomatic if you can, otherwise your letters may be considered from some nutbar which you, of course, are not.

Keep us involved.

[adriaticum]

Christy Clark premier@gov.bc.ca


Steve Thomson steve.thomson.mla@leg.bc.ca Ministry of Forests, Lands & Natural Resource Operations

[adriaticum]

Any others you need?

[The Dawg]

Message me................

[J_T]

Why not source out the authorization through Canfor that allowed a licencee to put up the gate. I'm not sure whether that is out of PG or not, but it could be a start. There is a man of integrity that used to be on here quite a bit, that works for Canfor and has been a BCWF Regional President that might be able to help you out. I'm sure if you did some research you can latch on to him, or someone who might be able to give you the background.

While I think it is important to express your frustration, I think it is equally important to do your homework and understand the background to why this happened.

I would also recommend you should create a pdf letter with your concerns and not just send an email.

If you want some assistance with reviewing a final draft, please feel free to reach out.

[The Hermit]

Does Canfor OWN the land? If they do you are SOL. If they don't then cut the lock. BTW - you now have an inkling of what it is like on the south HALF of Vancouver Island... or should I say Timber West Island.

[The Hermit]

Canfor Contact Information


General Inquiries:
info@canfor.com
Tel: 604-661-5241

[betteroffishing]

Ok. This is meant with as much humor as is possible but curt , your avatar is that of a native elder . Can I infer that you are native ? If so I hope I am not the only person who see the irony of a native being pissed about a Forrest road being blocked to him die to a lack of association with a particular group.

I am am sure you do not deserve this treatment and am not in any way suggesting you have ever wor would ever block access to any areas of the bush , I just happen to see some humor in the situation. Sorry in advance.

[Islanderr]

To be honest without getting into it to far, we cut locks off all the time. Just never vandalized anything and closed it behind us

[Peter Pepper]

I know its being asshlish but jam the lock with toothpick and superglue. Now they are locked in.

U beat me to it.
If more guys did this there'd be less gates

[.330 Dakota]

I always have a few locks in my truck anyway,,,cut the lock, put your own on,,,take it with you when you leave

[adriaticum]

Sounds like some pyrotechnic skills would come in handy in the future

[Rusty Shackleford]

Fact: The Graham River gate is one of the only LEGALLY installed gates on crown land in the Peace.

Fact: The installation of the gate and the development of the operating procedures west of the Graham River were directed by the Fort St. John Land and Resource Management Plan (LRMP), Graham River Integrated Resource Management Plan (GRIRMP), and Fort St. John Sustainable Forest Management Plan.

Fact: Industry, Government, and other stakeholders participated in the development of these plans.

Fact: Vehicular access across the bridge is for industrial or tenured use only (guide/trapper).
Hunting this area can be accessed via crossing the river with horses, atv or walking across the bridge. This gate has been in place for over a decade, nobody should be surprised when they see it.

[300rum700]

Itsveryhardtocomprehendthepointyouaretryingtomakew ithoutusingANYpunctuationyoudonthavvetobeanenglish professorbutsomesentenceswouldhelpalot.

[thunderheart]

Itsveryhardtocomprehendthepointyouaretryingtomakew ithoutusingANYpunctuationyoudonthavvetobeanenglish professorbutsomesentenceswouldhelpalot.
seriously thats what u have to add ?

[j270wsm]

Itsveryhardtocomprehendthepointyouaretryingtomakew ithoutusingANYpunctuationyoudonthavvetobeanenglish professorbutsomesentenceswouldhelpalot.


Never have nor ever will claim to be the smartest person but I easily read and understood the above post. Your are correct when you say that proper punctuation helps.

[Rackmastr]

Message me................

Message him....

[Sofa King]

Message him....

massage him....:shock:

[M.Dean]

There is nothing beyond the gate canfor decided it was s sensitive wildlife habitat yet the province still allows hunting and even vehicle access if your in bed with canfor I'd bet some of the boy's at canfor like to hunt, like you and me, but now they got there own private hunting area!

[Quince]

Be nice if there was some action for bs like this, along with private land/no hunting signs that are thrown up on crown land. Be nice if there had to be a name and number attached to every sign or they become invalid!

[Busterpayton54]

I'm a big fan of the free miners licence and the access it grants. Don't think I've ever had to ask twice for a key.

[curt]

Rusty shackle ford
fact to me you sound like you might be one of the ignorant pricks I almost punched out from canfor for trying to access your secret little honey hole
fact I don't recall ever being included in any meeting to lose a huge peice of hunt able country to some low life ass kissing guide outfitters and some suit who thinks he knows best
fact there is an atv restriction east of the stream following north to the graham from allard ridge NO other vehicle restriction is in the area so why does canfor get to deside
fact according to the prick who works for canfor he told us it was illegal to use that bridge for hunting and he would report us yet him and ten of his in bread buddies were doing it
fact when we exchange emails with the conservation officers and the regional biologists they didn't mention your ten year old gate so I was a little surprised to see it
fact just more proof how big business and back doors outfitters are screwing over residents we are the priority and I'm not even close to being done with this
fact I'm willing to bet this was pushed for from the guide in the area and I'm not havin that if he has vehicle access then so will I and if you are the guide or know him your a douche and I'd like to meet you

[dino]

to hell with any emails
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee306/heydino/image1_zpss8xhyl4w.jpeg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/heydino/media/image1_zpss8xhyl4w.jpeg.html)

[curt]

Betteroffishing you would be correct I am of native blood however I have always followed the same rules as you do I don't promote a lot of the bs that goes on around aboriginal rights and their self entitled crap the younger generation has lost the meaning and the teaching the lifestyle and showing respect to Mother Nature I try and take the high road but when you piss me off then I'm not going to lie I can become that guy

[tuner]

Good on you Curt, if access and or restrictions exist for resident hunters, GO's should have to abide by the same rules, as well as employees of companies engaged in work on public land.

[betteroffishing]

And good on you for that. Again I wasn't meaning to insinuate you had done wrong in any way and I in fact wish you nothing but the best of luck in gaining access to this area you wish to hunt. For me the irony was too much to not point out.

[Xenomorph]

Betteroffishing you would be correct I am of native blood however I have always followed the same rules as you do I don't promote a lot of the bs that goes on around aboriginal rights and their self entitled crap the younger generation has lost the meaning and the teaching the lifestyle and showing respect to Mother Nature I try and take the high road but when you piss me off then I'm not going to lie I can become that guy

You got our respect for the choice you make and you also have our support for a legal dispute to the matter. I'm more than willing to formulate an appropriate letter to the respective authorities if you could find out some details of the legality of mentioned gate. As mentioned before, I'm pretty convinced it must have been extremely frustrating to show up after such a long trip just to find out private interests trump general population rights.

Find out the legal details and provide some proof GOs and employees are using it


Good on you Curt, if access and or restrictions exist for resident hunters, GO's should have to abide by the same rules, as well as employees of companies engaged in work on public land.

What he said.

[bc_buckshot]

Yea i would proof read and take out a couple of words if you decide to send any emails or letter. Keep in mind swear words or name calling in a email wont help with any of your issues. Try to keep your emotions checked but your point across. Best of luck and i support your effort

[Seeker]

Fact: The Graham River gate is one of the only LEGALLY installed gates on crown land in the Peace.

Fact: The installation of the gate and the development of the operating procedures west of the Graham River were directed by the Fort St. John Land and Resource Management Plan (LRMP), Graham River Integrated Resource Management Plan (GRIRMP), and Fort St. John Sustainable Forest Management Plan.

Fact: Industry, Government, and other stakeholders participated in the development of these plans.

Fact: Vehicular access across the bridge is for industrial or tenured use only (guide/trapper).
Hunting this area can be accessed via crossing the river with horses, atv or walking across the bridge. This gate has been in place for over a decade, nobody should be surprised when they see it.

I am guessing this is Mr. Ellis or one of his cronies......it has a very similar layout to a GOABC driven article that was found in our newspapers around the time of the allocation issue......."Fact-......" maybe Dawg can dig it up and illustrate the comparison. If true, it explains the BS of which this situations smells, probably a lot of back door schmoozing and pocket padding. JMO of course.

[Davey Crockett]

I am all for fighting to maintain and expand access for our pastime but I truly hope that people would think twice before sticking a toothpick or other debris in a lock. You could be playing with people's lives if an accident occurred.

I have had success in obtaining answers to similar issues using government's front counter bc website. There is a link to submit a question and they will route it to the appropriate person. You never know, maybe they aren't allowed to have it locked.

[morris]

Rusty shackle ford
fact to me you sound like you might be one of the ignorant pricks I almost punched out from canfor for trying to access your secret little honey hole
fact I don't recall ever being included in any meeting to lose a huge peice of hunt able country to some low life ass kissing guide outfitters and some suit who thinks he knows best
fact there is an atv restriction east of the stream following north to the graham from allard ridge NO other vehicle restriction is in the area so why does canfor get to deside
fact according to the prick who works for canfor he told us it was illegal to use that bridge for hunting and he would report us yet him and ten of his in bread buddies were doing it
fact when we exchange emails with the conservation officers and the regional biologists they didn't mention your ten year old gate so I was a little surprised to see it
fact just more proof how big business and back doors outfitters are screwing over residents we are the priority and I'm not even close to being done with this
fact I'm willing to bet this was pushed for from the guide in the area and I'm not havin that if he has vehicle access then so will I and if you are the guide or know him your a douche and I'd like to meet you

Fact...with an attitude like yours I wouldn't give you a key either...and I have absolutely no clue who you are where you were trying to go or who owns the gate...but entitlement much?

[BigfishCanada]

Yep sounds like BS to me, i heard of a guy that kept pulling the gates out, then he chainsawed a trail around the gates, then he pulled the gates out again,

He was a pretty good guy

[Seeker]

Fact...with an attitude like yours I wouldn't give you a key either...and I have absolutely no clue who you are where you were trying to go or who owns the gate...but entitlement much?

Attitude? the tone of your 'contribution' reeks of it.....thanks for chiming in. If this issue is true, we should all be very concerned that access is being denied to the general public but granted to a guide outfitter or a business. Very concerning. I don't know you Morris, but what have you done to help preserve our passion? Care to share and help out the rest of us fellow men and women who are willing to do something?

[BigfishCanada]

Fact: The Graham River gate is one of the only LEGALLY installed gates on crown land in the Peace.

Fact: The installation of the gate and the development of the operating procedures west of the Graham River were directed by the Fort St. John Land and Resource Management Plan (LRMP), Graham River Integrated Resource Management Plan (GRIRMP), and Fort St. John Sustainable Forest Management Plan.

Fact: Industry, Government, and other stakeholders participated in the development of these plans.

Fact: Vehicular access across the bridge is for industrial or tenured use only (guide/trapper).
Hunting this area can be accessed via crossing the river with horses, atv or walking across the bridge. This gate has been in place for over a decade, nobody should be surprised when they see it.

Rusty, curious, do you have a key to this gate?

[morris]

Attitude? the tone of your 'contribution' reeks of it.....thanks for chiming in. If this issue is true, we should all be very concerned that access is being denied to the general public but granted to a guide outfitter or a business. Very concerning. I don't know you Morris, but what have you done to help preserve our passion? Care to share and help out the rest of us fellow men and women who are willing to do something?

Referring to the keyholders as ignorant pricks that you want to punch out is hardly diplomatic is it? I have hunted all areas of this province with no issues. Including the lower island where there are gates everywhere. I have obtained numerous keys and in those areas where I didn't I simply found somewhere else to hunt. Ranting and raving isn't going to get anyone anywhere and just reeks of entitlement. Simply put...some areas you aren't gonna get into....deal with it. Contrary to popular belief I am not of the opinion that people are out to screw us at every turn...life is to short to be constantly pissed off

[Salty]

morris you've got a defeatist attitude and I completely disagree with your logic.

[morris]

Thats cool...it would be boring if we all thought alike...but trust me ...no defeatist! Diplomatic yes...defeatist no

[rgn5hunt]

Usually an area of crown land that has restricted access as, what is described in this post, is identified in the hunting synopsis. Why is this area different?

[Big Lew]

"curt", I can understand your frustration, your anger, and your determination to try
and get to the bottom of what seems a very unfair situation.
As some have suggested, try to get that information you seek, and try to get something in
writing that supports your contention that the gate is illegal.
Many years ago a certain logging company based in Hope locked all the roads they were
using, or had used, just to create a personal hunting area for the Superintendent and
his lackeys and personal friends. It wasn't legal but no one challenged the company
about it because he would bring up the vandalism and theft card. He would get one of
his workers to drive him around as he sucked down whiskey while road hunting with
his loaded rifle between his legs as he sat in the passenger seat of his company truck.
He almost blew his head off once when a bump triggered his loaded gun, but that's
another story. Good luck to you.

[Seeker]

Referring to the keyholders as ignorant pricks that you want to punch out is hardly diplomatic is it? I have hunted all areas of this province with no issues. Including the lower island where there are gates everywhere. I have obtained numerous keys and in those areas where I didn't I simply found somewhere else to hunt. Ranting and raving isn't going to get anyone anywhere and just reeks of entitlement. Simply put...some areas you aren't gonna get into....deal with it. Contrary to popular belief I am not of the opinion that people are out to screw us at every turn...life is to short to be constantly pissed off

We as British Columbians "are" entitled to hunt on crown land, it belongs to us. Private land is another story. When crown land is being cordoned off for private interests we should all be very concerned and we should speak up, because if we don't, more land will slowly and surely be taken away. Standing idly by for some is an option. Those people never will, but should thank guys like Curt when you still have crown land to hunt because he cares enough to fight for it rather than just "finding another place to hunt". I respect Curt's passion to protect what is all of ours.

I have also learned to try and keep emotional responses in check until a more thorough knowledge of a situation is revealed. This situation is still early in its development and I for one am very interested in the outcome. Keep us posted Curt.

[adriaticum]

Thats cool...it would be boring if we all thought alike...but trust me ...no defeatist! Diplomatic yes...defeatist no

Defeatist, very defeatist.

[morris]

Defeatist, very defeatist.

Whatever...

[Ohwildwon]

Hey Morris,

don't mean to pic on you, but could you point your Icon Gun somewhere else?....

Sincerely...

[morris]

Hey Morris,

don't mean to pic on you, but could you point your Icon Gun somewhere else?....

Sincerely...

Lean a little left ...it'll miss...

[TimberPig]

Usually an area of crown land that has restricted access as, what is described in this post, is identified in the hunting synopsis. Why is this area different?

The hunting synopsis only includes restrictions established under the Wildlife Act.

As Rusty Shackleford has stated, this restriction was established under the land use plan for the area, not the Wildlife Act.

[Ohwildwon]

The hunting synopsis only includes restrictions established under the Wildlife Act.

As Rusty Shackleford has stated, this restriction was established under the land use plan for the area, not the Wildlife Act.

So is there a "Land Use Plan" that restricts some hunters and not others, besides the obvious?

Or is there a Loop Hole or Grey Area?

[604ksmith]

I'll wait until some facts come out about this situation, but generally if there's a gate restricted area, I leave it alone.

However, after a 14hour drive a locked gate has to be a huge frustration...but then again thats the risk with hunting new territories. The employee's may have been less than helpful, but you have to understand they also don't have the authority to say "yes or no" when you ask if you can enter the gate. I'm guessing they were trespassing too, the Company in question most likely just didn't know it.

I'd also be willing to guess the Land Management division or Upper Management of the Company wouldn't tolerate employee's recreationally using gated areas for a second. Lots of times gated areas are locked for; safety concerns, insurance issues, government mandates, forest regeneration, or some other business function that far supersedes any chance of this being done to create a "private company hunting ground."

Also, I seriously hope nobody here is gluing locks or replacing them with their own. That's a real big risk to give to people who make their living in the bush and may get into some serious issues if a lock is broken or replaced. Think: injury, getting stuck, lost time, overtime, missing deadlines, being split from crews, missing checkpoints, ect...

[TimberPig]

So is there a "Land Use Plan" that restricts some hunters and not others, besides the obvious?

Or is there a Loop Hole or Grey Area?

The land use plan didn't intend it to work they way it did, its intent was to protect a sensitive habitat from excessive pressure from unrestricted vehicle access. Call it what you want, but the intent was never for employees with gate keys to act they way they did, in using their access to the gate keys for their personal hunting access.

It isn't right, but is typical human nature to take advantage of the situation for personal gain.

[rgn5hunt]

The hunting synopsis only includes restrictions established under the Wildlife Act.

As Rusty Shackleford has stated, this restriction was established under the land use plan for the area, not the Wildlife Act.
It sounds like a unique closed area. Not private land and not recognized by MOE.

[TimberPig]

It sounds like a unique closed area. Not private land and not recognized by MOE.

Land use plans are given legal authority as higher level plans for forest and land use practices. The area is restricted under the legal authority of the higher level plan, which is recognized by MOE, but is under a different legal authority than a Wildlife Act closure. Both are legal access restrictions, just different sections of the law granting their authority for the closure.

[Ohwildwon]

Land use plans are given legal authority as higher level plans for forest and land use practices. The area is restricted under the legal authority of the higher level plan, which is recognized by MOE, but is under a different legal authority than a Wildlife Act closure. Both are legal access restrictions, just different sections of the law granting their authority for the closure.

Thanks TP for your response!

So long story short, do your home work going 12 hrs past nowhere, do your due diligence, to "get that Key"?

[yamadirt 426]

I'll wait until some facts come out about this situation, but generally if there's a gate restricted area, I leave it

Also, I seriously hope nobody here is gluing locks or replacing them with their own. That's a real big risk to give to people who make their living in the bush and may get into some serious issues if a lock is broken or replaced. Think: injury, getting stuck, lost time, overtime, missing deadlines, being split from crews, missing checkpoints, ect...

im started not to care about others problems. If in fact they are taking advantage of this. It's not my concern if they don't make it home . Play fair or f yourself.

[curt]

Morris you are 100% correct am very entitled I am born and raised Canadian with first nations blood lines on my mothers side yup I will admit it I am f**king entitled to work any part of crownland this province has to offer and I wont be letting some forest company tell me otherwise. I called them ignorant prick because that's how they acted not because they had a key, so honestly insulting me and not knowing the circumstances makes you the same as them so i'd appreciate if you let my post to the brothers and sisters on here that may have something helpful to contribute

[morris]

Morris you are 100% correct am very entitled I am born and raised Canadian with first nations blood lines on my mothers side yup I will admit it I am f**king entitled to work any part of crownland this province has to offer and I wont be letting some forest company tell me otherwise. I called them ignorant prick because that's how they acted not because they had a key, so honestly insulting me and not knowing the circumstances makes you the same as them so i'd appreciate if you let my post to the brothers and sisters on here that may have something helpful to contribute

Good luck with that...

[curt]

So what you're saying now is we have to read the hunting and fishing synopsis that is about as thick as an encyclopedia and then we have to go read some land-use thing this is just getting right ****ing stupid and out of control in my opinion
Thanks TP for your response!

So long story short, do your home work going 12 hrs past nowhere, do your due diligence, to "get that Key"?

[betteroffishing]

Couldn't agree more curt. The provincial regs used to be printed on a single sheet of paper. One sided.

[albravo2]

Curt,

Are you still up north? I bet you'd get lots of helpful suggestions of alternate areas to hunt from members on here. Sucks to research and drive 14 hours.

I know a little bit of the area. PM me if I can help.

/a

[Ed George]

Curt, I don't know if you are a BCWF member or not but the BCWF has 2 different options to deal with access issues.

Through the web site you can get the contact information for the Access Committee Chair and contact him, he is a

hunter and does not like gates, legal or not, any more than you. The other is the new Resident Priority Manager,

otherwise known as Goat Guy here on HBC. I believe that Dawg has been trying to connect you with these BCWF

people. Either of these people will need specifics about your experience. As a volunteer or employee of the BCWF

their priority is with the members of the BCWF first but access is for all of us. As I believe you said this was a

region 7B gate, your first contact should be with the Regional President for 7B. His contact information is also

on the BCWF web site.

Hunting for Health not Heads

[curt]

I appreciate the insight you seem to be very knowledgable on this may I ask how or what you do to know this and how are "we" suppose to know to check all these other sections of so called law if it effects me as a hunter it should be well laid out it the synopsis I shouldn't be having to look in a bunch of different sections of law to find out if I can access some fing crown land

[curt]

Thank you I msged dawg with my number to call meUOTE=jack pine savage;1691542]Curt, I don't know if you are a BCWF member or not but the BCWF has 2 different options to deal with access issues.

Through the web site you can get the contact information for the Access Committee Chair and contact him, he is a

hunter and does not like gates, legal or not, any more than you. The other is the new Resident Priority Manager,

otherwise known as Goat Guy here on HBC. I believe that Dawg has been trying to connect you with these BCWF

people. Either of these people will need specifics about your experience. As a volunteer or employee of the BCWF

their priority is with the members of the BCWF first but access is for all of us. As I believe you said this was a

region 7B gate, your first contact should be with the Regional President for 7B. His contact information is also

on the BCWF web site.

Hunting for Health not Heads
[/QUOTE]

[Islanderr]

Morris you are 100% correct am very entitled I am born and raised Canadian with first nations blood lines on my mothers side yup I will admit it I am f**king entitled to work any part of crownland this province has to offer and I wont be letting some forest company tell me otherwise. I called them ignorant prick because that's how they acted not because they had a key, so honestly insulting me and not knowing the circumstances makes you the same as them so i'd appreciate if you let my post to the brothers and sisters on here that may have something helpful to contribute

With the "I'm an entitled native" attitude your not gonna get a lot of wind from hbc behind your sails. to the majority of people here there's nothing we hate more then a native that thinks he is entitled to more then the next person born in Canada. I have Been paying attention to see if there was someway I could help, emails phone calls, anything at all. Because I don't believe we should be locked out of our hunting grounds which should be every Canadians rights not First Nations not guides but every single individuals right as a born n' bred Canadian who pays taxes and puts in their 9 - 5 like everyone else. But with that attitude, to hell with you.

But I get the vibe it was sarcasm "hint hint" - and I sincerely hope it was.

Isl

[curt]

I'm Canadian first been pretty clear on that government doesn't care much about residents they have no back bones when it comes to aboriginals we all know that maybe poorly worded but I'll use any angle to rectify this

[Salty]

Don't listen to the newbie curt you're all good in my books.

[ruger#1]

Don't listen to the newbie curt you're all good in my books. Mine too. We are all getting tired of gates.

[adriaticum]

With the "I'm an entitled native" attitude your not gonna get a lot of wind from hbc behind your sails. to the majority of people here there's nothing we hate more then a native that thinks he is entitled to more then the next person born in Canada. I have Been paying attention to see if there was someway I could help, emails phone calls, anything at all. Because I don't believe we should be locked out of our hunting grounds which should be every Canadians rights not First Nations not guides but every single individuals right as a born n' bred Canadian who pays taxes and puts in their 9 - 5 like everyone else. But with that attitude, to hell with you.

But I get the vibe it was sarcasm "hint hint" - and I sincerely hope it was.

Isl


What the hell are you on?
Make sure you know your dealer.

[morris]

Don't listen to the newbie curt you're all good in my books.

If I'm the newbie you are referring to I have been around here almost as long as you, more of a reader than a poster, but all good, I have thick skin!

[albravo2]

I don't think Islandrr read the whole thread, or any of Curt's past posts.

Good luck Curt, hope you get some good hunting. Sucks about the gate, especially if it is legal and been there a long time but nobody bothered to mention that when you were doing your research.

[Salty]

If I'm the newbie you are referring to I have been around here almost as long as you, more of a reader than a poster, but all good, I have thick skin!

No I would hardly call you a newbie morris. ;)

[Huey]

So what you're saying now is we have to read the hunting and fishing synopsis that is about as thick as an encyclopedia and then we have to go read some land-use thing this is just getting right ****ing stupid and out of control in my opinion


With the "I'm an entitled native" attitude your not gonna get a lot of wind from hbc behind your sails. to the majority of people here there's nothing we hate more then a native that thinks he is entitled to more then the next person born in Canada. I have Been paying attention to see if there was someway I could help, emails phone calls, anything at all. Because I don't believe we should be locked out of our hunting grounds which should be every Canadians rights not First Nations not guides but every single individuals right as a born n' bred Canadian who pays taxes and puts in their 9 - 5 like everyone else. But with that attitude, to hell with you.

But I get the vibe it was sarcasm "hint hint" - and I sincerely hope it was.

Isl

Quit with the race-baiting, it's been very clear this is a resident priority issue, nothing to do with race issues.



For the most part we've been raised as Canadians and hunters to always show respect, to not go against the grain and take what the government gives us and don't ever show any signs of entitlement or confrontation.
When a light is shone upon something this wrong it's time we reflect on how being non-entitled and non-confrontational is ever going to change things for the future of this lifestyle we so love. We as British Columbians and Canadians have every right in the world to be entitled to hunt on the crown land of the province we live in and that we pay taxes for. It's thanks to guys like Curt who hold government and large companies accountable for taking advantage of the non-entitled non-confrontational Canadian hunters. Why should a non-resident Canadian desire to hunt in a public area with a guide take precedence over mine?
You have all my thanks and support Curt.

[ruger#1]

No I would hardly call you a newbie morris. ;) It is post #76 that I was referring to.

[Islanderr]

Morris you are 100% correct am very entitled I am born and raised Canadian with first nations blood lines on my mothers side yup I will admit it I am f**king entitled

Are you guys missing something?

[Salty]

Are you guys missing something?

. no

[tater]

When this thread first opened i was wondering if it was the Graham Gate.

If you look at the species in the area, the terrain, and the amount of access that is available via the road network it is easy to see why the gate was put up. The caribou and goats were the largest species of concern, when related to unregulated hunting access (if you know the area, you know the heavy footprint just down the road from the gate).

Is it fair that some guys have a special pass? Nope.

Should the gate be there?
Yup.

And yes, i have hunted that area, after a 22 hour drive. But i knew full well what i was driving up for. Piss poor planning leads to piss poor performance.

[Islanderr]

Clearly you are, why was race brought up in the first place? I never brought it up. I was all for getting rid of gates and making sure if we are legally allowed to hunt there, that we have access without being prosecuted by some big logging company that can hire expensive lawyers. i was gung hoe, then you lost me at I'm an entitled native

[Seeker]

Are you guys missing something?

No Islanderr, YOU are missing something. You have been around here for two months and come on here assuming you know the intricacies surrounding the issues of the hunting community in British Columbia. You clearly have shown your lack of knowledge. I suggest taking a few months to familiarize yourself with the pressing issues expressed by this community before you chime in with such derogatory, uneducated responses. I have been here for 2 years, and I still consider my self ignorant on many issues. You will learn the issues in time and the players and the personalities that regularly contribute and the weight given to them by the rest of us. Continue the way you have been and you will be on a lot of blocked lists.


BC resident priority is probably THE biggest priority in the BC hunting community at this time. This situation strikes to the core of what we are fighting for. Curt has put race aside, this is NOT a native or aboriginal issue, this is a resident access issue. Residents being refused access to crown land by 'corporate' interests. Basically - privatization of OUR resource!




Quit with the race-baiting, it's been very clear this is a resident priority issue, nothing to do with race issues.



For the most part we've been raised as Canadians and hunters to always show respect, to not go against the grain and take what the government gives us and don't ever show any signs of entitlement or confrontation.
When a light is shone upon something this wrong it's time we reflect on how being non-entitled and non-confrontational is ever going to change things for the future of this lifestyle we so love. We as British Columbians and Canadians have every right in the world to be entitled to hunt on the crown land of the province we live in and that we pay taxes for. It's thanks to guys like Curt who hold government and large companies accountable for taking advantage of the non-entitled non-confrontational Canadian hunters. Why should a non-resident Canadian desire to hunt in a public area with a guide take precedence over mine?
You have all my thanks and support Curt.

Well said Huey

[Foxtail]

Clearly you are, why was race brought up in the first place? I never brought it up. I was all for getting rid of gates and making sure if we are legally allowed to hunt there, that we have access without being prosecuted by some big logging company that can hire expensive lawyers. i was gung hoe, then you lost me at I'm an entitled native

You need to read the whole thread. Curt has already stated it has nothing to do with being native. He follows the same rules you and I follow and his hunt was stopped short by a gate. Dont be lazy, read the whole thread and you will see why Curt said he was entitled.

[Seeker]

When this thread first opened i was wondering if it was the Graham Gate.

If you look at the species in the area, the terrain, and the amount of access that is available via the road network it is easy to see why the gate was put up. The caribou and goats were the largest species of concern, when related to unregulated hunting access (if you know the area, you know the heavy footprint just down the road from the gate).

Is it fair that some guys have a special pass? Nope.

Should the gate be there?
Yup.

And yes, i have hunted that area, after a 22 hour drive. But i knew full well what i was driving up for. Piss poor planning leads to piss poor performance.

That is obviously the issue.

I think if we were ALL denied access, Canfor employees and Guide outfitters, that the rest of us would be more accepting of the gate. Especially if it meant protecting wildlife. But there needs to be some clearer rules surrounding the use of this road by corporate interests that ensure they adhere to the same restrictions the rest of us do. Then of course there needs to be enforcement.......

[J_T]

^^ I think Seeker's comment is starting to bring this discussion back to where it should have been. If the gate, or lack of access is a part of a land use discussion and decision around protecting key values, including wildlife then I'm fine with the gate. Yes it sucks that we don't have information/maps out there that let us know some roads are gated so that when we are planning a hunt, we have this information. But Vehicle Access Management (VMA's) and Access Management Areas (AMA's) are a part of regional land use and advisory discussions on an ongoing basis. Most Wildlife Advisory committees have a standing agenda item to discuss access.

Having said that, I agree with Seeker, we need to differentiate between 'access management' and 'access for a select few'.

[wideopenthrottle]

here is a question or two for you...if you had chatted with them and they had befriended you.....then offered to lend you a key if you promised to drop it off somewhere (maybe a $100 refundable deposit or something) would you have accepted?...would you approach a farmer to allow you to hunt on their land...lets face it, every one dreams of having an area all to them self but this situation with exclusive rights to a GO and the bosses buddies just plain stinks.

[Islanderr]

That's all I'm saying, no one, should be entitled to hunt and area over someone else regardless of race religion age or employment/guiding position. I think I took the "I'm an entitled native" wrong/out of context, but you can see why I would. I'm not anti native, I'm anti-gateing off crown land for personal/profit hunting. As a resident hunter, you all know where I stand. My apologies curt if I offended you, I'm just strongly against special treatment for anybody anywhere, especially hunting, other then resident hunters*. People with disabilities excluded. Again, my apologies

[adriaticum]

I sure hope Curt pursues this to the end. This in not just his issue.
There is no way in hell a private company can block access to crown land unless they have permission by some government entity in which case it should be clear why they blocked it, by whose authority and who to contact for information.
If a company blocks access to some activity for the public, their employees should not be allowed to exercise that same activity either.

[ACE]

Just looking on 'Google Earth' ...... is this gate near the bridge on the Halfway ?
Any info ?

[Salty]

No Ace that bridge is open to all pretty sure its to the west on the Graham river. I was actually up there for the first time in August didn't get to the Graham bridge though.

[Salty]

That's all I'm saying, no one, should be entitled to hunt and area over someone else regardless of race religion age or employment/guiding position. I think I took the "I'm an entitled native" wrong/out of context, but you can see why I would. I'm not anti native, I'm anti-gateing off crown land for personal/profit hunting. As a resident hunter, you all know where I stand. My apologies curt if I offended you, I'm just strongly against special treatment for anybody anywhere, especially hunting, other then resident hunters*. People with disabilities excluded. Again, my apologies

Good on you Islanderr. Bottom line curt has a lot of street cred here on the board he's been here a long time and hasn't pulled any selfish stuff in the past so wouldn't start now he's a stand up guy and a good contributor. He was a little excited and said some things he normally wouldn't but most of us have been there. Actually, I didn't even know he was native should have had a clue by the avatar I guess. lol.

[moosinaround]

I worked behind that gate back in 1998. Very rich game activity back there. Canfor does not get to log that prime virgin wood, if it does not look after the other resources too. FDP's don't get approved if gates, or deactivations, or road rehabilitation do not occur. As I was told, it was ok to hunt back there, just not in your truck? Usually company employees have to abide by the same rules as other resource users, and if in fact they are hunting back there, instead of on company business, they are in fact breaking the companies agreement with the government, and they could face serious penalties to their licence. It is a dangerous game the Canfor employee is playing especially if they value their job. Getting into a pissing match with this fellow, was the wrong way to go about it. You know it was a Canfor employee, it is easy to call or visit the Ft St John Canfor office to get some clarity on the subject. Ease up Curt, think rationally, and take the rational steps to get some answers. I understand your frustration, but punchin folks in the face and uttering threats, only makes you look like a loose cannon, when in fact, you probably are not. The area that leads up to this had very good elk, moose and deer habitat when I was up there last, and the area to the south of it is very good hunting grounds. I hope you were able to find some other areas, and have a good hunt. Moosin

[curt]

Just because I say I wanted to punch the smug look of his face doesn't mean I did or even threatened to not my style bottom line is this and many people on here clearly get what I'm saying...... IF I CANT HAVE ACCESS THEN NO ONE ELSE SHOULD EITHER PERIOD. IM A TAX PAYING RESIDENT OF THIS PROVINCE AND IM THE PRIORITY NOT SOME OUTFITTERS ME THE RESIDENT HUNTER ME NOT SOME FORIEGN RICH PRICK PADDING OUTFITTERS POCKETS PERIOD THERE IS NO OTHER ARGUMENT QUOTE=moosinaround;1691734]I worked behind that gate back in 1998. Very rich game activity back there. Canfor does not get to log that prime virgin wood, if it does not look after the other resources too. FDP's don't get approved if gates, or deactivations, or road rehabilitation do not occur. As I was told, it was ok to hunt back there, just not in your truck? Usually company employees have to abide by the same rules as other resource users, and if in fact they are hunting back there, instead of on company business, they are in fact breaking the companies agreement with the government, and they could face serious penalties to their licence. It is a dangerous game the Canfor employee is playing especially if they value their job. Getting into a pissing match with this fellow, was the wrong way to go about it. You know it was a Canfor employee, it is easy to call or visit the Ft St John Canfor office to get some clarity on the subject. Ease up Curt, think rationally, and take the rational steps to get some answers. I understand your frustration, but punchin folks in the face and uttering threats, only makes you look like a loose cannon, when in fact, you probably are not. The area that leads up to this had very good elk, moose and deer habitat when I was up there last, and the area to the south of it is very good hunting grounds. I hope you were able to find some other areas, and have a good hunt. Moosin[/QUOTE]

[moosinaround]

You got a lot of folks to fight Curt. I agree with you! There are a lot of tax paying citizens that work for Canfor, BCTS, guide outfitters, restaurants, logging companies, Wendy's, etc that rely on that gate there. That's the only way Canfor operates in there! Sometimes our hunting rights are superceded by other higher priority issues! Now company employees, overstepping their boundaries needs to be dealt with. Again, I'm on your side, you don't think I wanted to hunt back there, when it was almost virgin country? You can bet your a$$ I did, but I valued my job first!! Moosin

[swampdonkey]

Hey Curt we have one up near are cabin that I'm going to look into as well . Always seems to be some guys on the other side of the gate and we can't get in . Like others have said keep fighting this .

[604ksmith]

im started not to care about others problems. If in fact they are taking advantage of this. It's not my concern if they don't make it home . Play fair or f yourself.

I wasn't referring to the hunters who were trespassing themselves, I was talking about the legitimate employees of the company that work in that area Monday-Friday.

I'd throw the book at anyone who changes a lock and interrupts either the business or the safety of the company and it's workers. There's always more to an area that a good hunting spot, you have to think big picture.

[Looking_4_Jerky]

That's all I'm saying, no one, should be entitled to hunt and area over someone else regardless of race...

I don't want to deflect this thread, nor do I think that Curt is using this angle, but Islander, you are going to have an increasingly difficult time here in BC, because as time goes on, there will be more areas that, like the Chilcotin, will be awarded aboriginal title through the courts, and the result will be that you, as a non-aboriginal hunter, will have reduced opportunities.

The bottom line is that your right to hunt as a non-aboriginal resident are TRUMPED by Aboriginal Canadians whose right to hunt (& fish) is protected by the Canadian constitution, like it or not.

In fact, Curt, while we're on the subject of First Nations, if you really want to make sure government hears your voice on this, go to the closest FN band and tell them that you think areas off limits to them are being road hunted by a select few with access behind the gate. There's a good chance that within weeks the Deputy Minister of FLNRO will be having a conference call with Canfor.

The other angle is to find out exactly what kind of tenure is in place for the gate. If it's not legally tenured, just cut the lock off. Before you do, phone the Conservation Officer Services and ask them what you'd be charged with for compromising the gate. You'll find out in short order if they have anything concrete.

With regards to the regs and the fact that they aren't a page long for the whole province anymore:
If you want the Province to exercise any sort of game management, be thankful for the regs. It is your duty as a hunter to be able to discern the regulations, regardless of how complex. Don't mistake the Hunting Regs synopsis for a Land-Use Plan. The Synopsis summarizes regulations under the Wildlife Act, it does not elude to access management strategies and/or structures. Assuming the gate is legally able to be there, it is up to individual hunters to ascertain the access before going somewhere.

[Davey Crockett]

Curt, did you get any official answers yet from canfor or from govt?

[Islanderr]

I don't want to deflect this thread, nor do I think that Curt is using this angle, but Islander, you are going to have an increasingly difficult time here in BC, because as time goes on, there will be more areas that, like the Chilcotin, will be awarded aboriginal title through the courts, and the result will be that you, as a non-aboriginal hunter, will have reduced opportunities.

The bottom line is that your right to hunt as a non-aboriginal resident are TRUMPED by Aboriginal Canadians whose right to hunt (& fish) is protected by the Canadian constitution, like it or not.

i wouldn't like to beat the dead horse any more either, and I now realize that curt wasn't pulling that angle as well, but I don't agree with natives having priority and no bag limits hunting any animal calf cow year round hunting legal pit lamping etc etc. And if given the chance, I'd likely fight against it. Sorry, but that's how I feel. If you don't like me for it, then so be it. I feel everyone should be equal, we, in this day in age, are fighting for equality in every part of out life from women to the lgbt community. Even men are talked about not having equality, things like men's feelings don't matter, rarity in child custody winnings, and of the sort. We are in an age of equality. I'm sure there are lots of people who share my same thoughts. I don't want to start a big fight again, so let's just maybe leave it at that, and I truly hope that if Curtis went to hunt crown land and found a gate that was locked and then told to turn around or else they'd be in trouble, finds justice in the form of a torn down gate and his, all ours, Canadian born right to hunt crown land. I truly hope he find justice, and sincerely apologize for the prior comments.

Cheers

isl

[curt]

well apparently I'm not quite as smart as you I figured mutliple emails with both the Co's and the bio,s along with google images hunting regs printed pictures with unrestricted vechile closed area was plenty good enough but apparently you have some better idea please share you vast knowledge of planning with me..... because I'm stupid smart enough mind you to be hired by the federal government to protect canadians but stupid non the less???????????????
When this thread first opened i was wondering if it was the Graham Gate.

If you look at the species in the area, the terrain, and the amount of access that is available via the road network it is easy to see why the gate was put up. The caribou and goats were the largest species of concern, when related to unregulated hunting access (if you know the area, you know the heavy footprint just down the road from the gate).

Is it fair that some guys have a special pass? Nope.

Should the gate be there?
Yup.

And yes, i have hunted that area, after a 22 hour drive. But i knew full well what i was driving up for. Piss poor planning leads to piss poor performance.

[curt]

#1 from what I understand from the "employee of Canfor" that area has not seen any active work for some time meaning a number of years, That gate and bridge is not being used for any logging activity and hasnt been for yrs. In fact we were told canfor Intially removed a section of the bridge to de activate it and then was bribed ,bought, convinced,encouraged wt f**k every you want to call it to put the section back so the guide /trapper/employees would have access. Also just an update I have a call into Canfor and I am awaiting a call or email response. Moosinaround just so you know I'm a decent guy respectful honest and have integrity but when I get ****ed over I get pissed and I wont stop till I get wjhat is rightfully mine and in this case its priority over ****ing outfitters and employees!!!
You got a lot of folks to fight Curt. I agree with you! There are a lot of tax paying citizens that work for Canfor, BCTS, guide outfitters, restaurants, logging companies, Wendy's, etc that rely on that gate there. That's the only way Canfor operates in there! Sometimes our hunting rights are superceded by other higher priority issues! Now company employees, overstepping their boundaries needs to be dealt with. Again, I'm on your side, you don't think I wanted to hunt back there, when it was almost virgin country? You can bet your a$$ I did, but I valued my job first!! Moosin

[moosinaround]

#1 from what I understand from the "employee of Canfor" that area has not seen any active work for some time meaning a number of years, That gate and bridge is not being used for any logging activity and hasnt been for yrs. In fact we were told canfor Intially removed a section of the bridge to de activate it and then was bribed ,bought, convinced,encouraged wt f**k every you want to call it to put the section back so the guide /trapper/employees would have access. Also just an update I have a call into Canfor and I am awaiting a call or email response. Moosinaround just so you know I'm a decent guy respectful honest and have integrity but when I get ****ed over I get pissed and I wont stop till I get wjhat is rightfully mine and in this case its priority over ****ing outfitters and employees!!!

Well, good luck, I'd just quad across the river, but that's me! Fight the fight fellow resource user, fight the fight! Moosin out!

[eaglesnester]

Gate? lock? We did not see no steekening locks or gates.

[curt]

trust me we tried river was a little dangerous to be messing around 100 km from pavement but had I known I could have prepared for that
Well, good luck, I'd just quad across the river, but that's me! Fight the fight fellow resource user, fight the fight! Moosin out!

[hunter27]

Curt, Good for you for fighting for all of our rights to access Crown Lands. AS others have posted, take a deep breath and keep emotions out of it. Try to think long term. Your trip this year is done and gone, so think farther ahead, next year. Get a copy of the Graham River Resource Management Plan. if it states that there is vehicle restrictions for hunting, then the Guide Outfitter and the Canfor employees are breaking the law and you should report it to the Conservation Officers to be investigated. If it gives select approval to the Guide Outfitter and Canfor employees to be allowed to use vehicles to hunt, then you bring that forward to the media through the BCWF. If you really want to dig, do a Freedom Of Information request for the original applicants and supporters of the plan. Then you may have some more ammo to use against the apparent preferential treatment given to the Guide Outfitter and Canfor employees through this "resource" plan.

[curt]

up date on the gate issue I was called today by one of the heads guys ft st john branch in Canfor today he gave me the history surrounding the gate,very nice guy to talk to he took the time and explained the rationale.... but I told him bottom line if trappers and guides have access then I deserve it to, he didn't disagree. bottom line this area was round tabled back in 1994 by about 30 ish people ranging from forestry, natives, guides, hunters, biologist etc, it took 3 yrs to come to a conclusion and that conclusion was to restrict access via a gate. IMO That was 18yrs ago time to revisit the policy like I told him guides trappers and canfor employees have had this little junk to themselves for far too long resident hunters are the priority and that's what I'm pushing for! I thanked him for taking time to talk with me, I was quite honest though I told him I'll be putting their name out there, contacting any and everybody possible about this. I'm going to make them revisit this, it wont be easy but they pissed me off so Im all in now! I was contacted by 2 BC wildlife federation guys awesome dudes their hearts are in it to protect us totally respect Ed and Jessie thanks for your support ill keep you all posted!

[adriaticum]

up date on the gate issue I was called today by one of the heads guys ft st john branch in Canfor today he gave me the history surrounding the gate,very nice guy to talk to he took the time and explained the rationale.... but I told him bottom line if trappers and guides have access then I deserve it to, he didn't disagree. bottom line this area was round tabled back in 1994 by about 30 ish people ranging from forestry, natives, guides, hunters, biologist etc, it took 3 yrs to come to a conclusion and that conclusion was to restrict access via a gate. IMO That was 18yrs ago time to revisit the policy like I told him guides trappers and canfor employees have had this little junk to themselves for far too long resident hunters are the priority and that's what I'm pushing for! I thanked him for taking time to talk with me, I was quite honest though I told him I'll be putting their name out there, contacting any and everybody possible about this. I'm going to make them revisit this, it wont be easy but they pissed me off so Im all in now! I was contacted by 2 BC wildlife federation guys awesome dudes their hearts are in it to protect us totally respect Ed and Jessie thanks for your support ill keep you all posted!


Sounds like bullshit to me. Don't let them sweet talk you into believing that crap.
Unless this decision is written in a public document it's not legal.
Big fat spiel.

[curt]

ThereWill be no sweet talking trust me

[morris]

Sounds like bullshit to me. Don't let them sweet talk you into believing that crap.
Unless this decision is written in a public document it's not legal.
Big fat spiel.

Some light reading for you...

https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/tasb/slrp/pdf/LRMP/Fort%20Stjohn_LRMP.pdf

[adriaticum]

Some light reading for you...

https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/tasb/slrp/pdf/LRMP/Fort%20Stjohn_LRMP.pdf

So is this gate in question mentioned in this document?

[morris]

You need me to read it to you too?

[ruger#1]

You need me to read it to you too? Is it in French. Then you might have to. Otherwise I'm fine.

[argyle1]

is their anyway to block certain member's postings from my hbc screen? I don't wish to look at a picture of someone pointing a rifle at me.

[adriaticum]

You need me to read it to you too?

Yes you need to just point where this gate in question is mentioned.
I don't actually know where this gate is.

[morris]

is their anyway to block certain member's postings from my hbc screen? I don't wish to look at a picture of someone pointing a rifle at me.

Relax its a plastic training gun...zoom in there's no muzzle!

[ruger#1]

is their anyway to block certain member's postings from my hbc screen? I don't wish to look at a picture of someone pointing a rifle at me.If it worries you that much.Just put them on ignor. Do you change the channel on your tv. When someone points a gun at you?

[morris]

Yes you need to just point where this gate in question is mentioned.
I don't actually know where this gate is.

To be honest ...I have no idea where the gate is either, but that link I provided is what everyone is referring to. It lays out the Protected areas and basically all it says is as long a sufficient notice is given the gate can be installed...

[adriaticum]

To be honest ...I have no idea where the gate is either, but that link I provided is what everyone is referring to. It lays out the Protected areas and basically all it says is as long a sufficient notice is given the gate can be installed...

We need facts pal.
Not lullabies.

[morris]

We need facts pal.
Not lullabies.

Then get on it...

[steveo]

I don't really agree with Canfor employees using their keys to access a gated area for hunting but why so mad if a trapper has a key or even a guide for that matter. If the area in question is labelled " a species sensitive area " a gate is one of the only ways of controlling access.

[Xenomorph]

I don't really agree with Canfor employees using their keys to access a gated area for hunting but why so mad if a trapper has a key or even a guide for that matter. If the area in question is labelled " a species sensitive area " a gate is one of the only ways of controlling access.


It's most likely the Canfor employees interaction that sparked all this. I can imagine a bunch of morons poking fun as this is "their personal honey hole".

[PeaceRegionInfo]

So the short story spent most of the summer communicating with co,s biologist and studying google earth had our spot all figured out only to go 100 km off the grid to find canfor had put a locked gate and has restricted access no way around because of river and apparently thanks to a couple of smug arrogant asshats for the info cantor only gives out the key to the guide outfitter and apparently their employees and their buddies WHAT resident priority program what I want any email contact you can think of government wildlife branch bio,s politicians they are getting my email on this oh ya forestry ministers anyone you got throw them my way I'll put my letter on here when I'm done mother f ers are going to know my name shortly

Good morning. Nick Baccante is the Fish and Wildlife Section Head in the Peace. Nick.Baccante@gov.bc.ca. Chris Addison is the regional manager Christopher.Addison@gov.bc.ca. We are aware of the gate, and if we could have some concise details about your experience it will help us address the issue.

For future reference, every employee of the Province is accessible through the government directory at www.dir.gov.bc.ca.

[Stainless]

*REVISED FOR READABILITY*
So to keep a long story short, I spent most of the summer communicating with CO's, biologists, and studying Google Earth. We had our spot all figured out and only had to go 100 km off the grid. Unfortunately, we found that Canfor had put up a locked gate that has restricted access. With the river being in the way, there is no possible way around to our spot. Apparently, information from some unkind men, whose hats resembled a human's buttocks, revealed that Canfor only gives out the keys to the guide outfitter, their friends, and their employees. Could I please get more information on the Resident Priority Program (ie. Contacts, emails, phone numbers). I would also like information on anyone who can possibly hear my complaint. I am getting quite angry about this and need your help to voice my concerns.
Thank you for your contributions,
Curt from Chilliwack

[The Dawg]

*REVISED FOR READABILITY*
So to keep a long story short, I spent most of the summer communicating with CO's, biologists, and studying Google Earth. We had our spot all figured out and only had to go 100 km off the grid. Unfortunately, we found that Canfor had put up a locked gate that has restricted access. With the river being in the way, there is no possible way around to our spot. Apparently, information from some unkind men, whose hats resembled a human's buttocks, revealed that Canfor only gives out the keys to the guide outfitter, their friends, and their employees. Could I please get more information on the Resident Priority Program (ie. Contacts, emails, phone numbers). I would also like information on anyone who can possibly hear my complaint. I am getting quite angry about this and need your help to voice my concerns.
Thank you for your contributions,
Curt from Chilliwack



PM me your phone number

[elch jager]

So, three possible outcomes...
1) nothing happens... you continue to get further enraged
2) someone gets sympathetic and cuts you a key... you become one of the privileged few and we all can bitch about your special treatment
3) the gate comes down and everyone has access... you get to hunt a sensitive area that may become unsustainable through over use.

Which do you prefer?

Back in the 70's, my dad's hunting partner was a foreman at Spruce Falls - a lumber camp in Ontario near Kapuskasing. Crown land leased to the Company with gates to control access. Eric had a key, we hunted in solitude for 10 days each fall and had the luxury of viewing 10, sometimes 20 different moose before selecting the animals we wanted. We were directed to hunt in an area where there was no active cutting, we ate in camp with the employees and we didn't strut around the gate taunting people that hunted up to the gate. At the time we really enjoyed the privilege and we did not mention where we hunted to anyone in town as it was sure to start a fight. Was it wrong? I don't think so. Like anything else, membership has it's privileges. If the gate came down, it would have presented an uncontrollable danger to the crews. This way, they could manage the number of hunters and ensure they were not near the active areas.

[Gateholio]

Option 4Everyone has to play by the same rules in regards to hunting access, with or without a gate.

[albravo2]

PM me your phone number

Uh, he was being a smartass and re-writing Curt's post. Not a new event.

[curt]

there should be no privileges period we should all have the same access to all of crown land and the fact a guide outfitter has basically purchased his own little piece of the province makes me even madder don't know how often I have to say it WE BC RESIDENTS are the priority period and we shouldn't stop bitching until it happens plain and simple!
Option 4Everyone has to play by the same rules in regards to hunting access, with or without a gate.

[curt]

sounds like a bunch of excuses to me knowing full well you were taking advantage of a situation that's why you pussy footed around people and didn't say much about it!!
So, three possible outcomes...
1) nothing happens... you continue to get further enraged
2) someone gets sympathetic and cuts you a key... you become one of the privileged few and we all can bitch about your special treatment
3) the gate comes down and everyone has access... you get to hunt a sensitive area that may become unsustainable through over use.

Which do you prefer?

Back in the 70's, my dad's hunting partner was a foreman at Spruce Falls - a lumber camp in Ontario near Kapuskasing. Crown land leased to the Company with gates to control access. Eric had a key, we hunted in solitude for 10 days each fall and had the luxury of viewing 10, sometimes 20 different moose before selecting the animals we wanted. We were directed to hunt in an area where there was no active cutting, we ate in camp with the employees and we didn't strut around the gate taunting people that hunted up to the gate. At the time we really enjoyed the privilege and we did not mention where we hunted to anyone in town as it was sure to start a fight. Was it wrong? I don't think so. Like anything else, membership has it's privileges. If the gate came down, it would have presented an uncontrollable danger to the crews. This way, they could manage the number of hunters and ensure they were not near the active areas.

[Spy]

there should be no privileges period we should all have the same access to all of crown land and the fact a guide outfitter has basically purchased his own little piece of the province makes me even madder don't know how often I have to say it WE BC RESIDENTS are the priority period and we shouldn't stop bitching until it happens plain and simple!
Whats good for a guide should be good for us !

[PeaceRegionInfo]

Good morning. Here is some information on the history and mandate of this gate, as well as the current status.

The Fort St. John Land and Resource Management Plan (LRMP - 1997) identifies the importance of access management to maintain wilderness characteristics and fish and wildlife habitats over time. The Graham River valley is specifically identified in the LRMP and the Graham River Integrated Resource Management Management Plan (GRIRMP - 1998 ) with a variety of high value resources including timber, fish and wildlife, recreation and scenic values. Key elements of the GRIRMP, including access management and specifically the gate in question, are made operational by the approved Sustainable Forest Management Plan (SFMP) which undergoes regular review by a Public Advisory Group that includes First Nations representation.

The SFMP commits Canfor to managing access to meet the objectives identified in the SFMP, GRIRMP and LRMP. Currently, the mechanism to manage access is a locked gate to which exactly 11 keys are signed out to individuals (Canfor staff and contractors, BCTS, COS, and two trappers), numbered and stamped "Do Not Copy". The lock is changed regularly and keys reissued to enhance security.

The local Guide Outfitter does not have access through the gate. Further, Canfor's terms of employment prohibit their staff from using their privilege of employment to access the gate for personal use. More broadly, Canfor employees are prohibited from hunting at all while working. However, Canfor employees acting in their own personal interest on their own time, as well as the Guide Outfitter, are able to access the area but are required to use the same means available to any resident hunter.

Of note, areas behind the gate are also subject to the 1400m South Peace Elevation Closure, which prohibits operation of motor vehicles above 1400m to protect sensitive alpine habitats.

As suggested before, please contact Nick Baccante (Nick.Baccante@gov.bc.ca) or me (Christopher.Addison@gov.bc.ca).

Regards,

Chris Addison, R.P. Bio
Director of Resource Management, Northeast
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations

[moosinaround]

Good morning. Here is some information on the history and mandate of this gate, as well as the current status.

The Fort St. John Land and Resource Management Plan (LRMP - 1997) identifies the importance of access management to maintain wilderness characteristics and fish and wildlife habitats over time. The Graham River valley is specifically identified in the LRMP and the Graham River Integrated Resource Management Management Plan (GRIRMP - 1998 ) with a variety of high value resources including timber, fish and wildlife, recreation and scenic values. Key elements of the GRIRMP, including access management and specifically the gate in question, are made operational by the approved Sustainable Forest Management Plan (SFMP) which undergoes regular review by a Public Advisory Group that includes First Nations representation.

The SFMP commits Canfor to managing access to meet the objectives identified in the SFMP, GRIRMP and LRMP. Currently, the mechanism to manage access is a locked gate to which exactly 11 keys are signed out to individuals, numbered and stamped "Do Not Copy". The lock is changed regularly and keys reissued to enhance security.

The local Guide Outfitter does not have access through the gate. Further, Canfor's terms of employment prohibit their staff from using their privilege of employment to access the gate for personal use. More broadly, Canfor employees are prohibited from hunting at all while working. However, Canfor employees acting in their own personal interest on their own time, as well as the Guide Outfitter, are able to access the area but are required to use the same means available to any resident hunter.

Of note, areas behind the gate are also subject to the 1400m South Peace Elevation Closure, which prohibits operation of motor vehicles above 1400m to protect sensitive alpine habitats.

As suggested before, please contact Nick Baccante (Nick.Baccante@gov.bc.ca) or me (Christopher.Addison@gov.bc.ca).

Regards,

Chris Addison, R.P. Bio
Director of Resource Management, Northeast
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations
Thank you Chris for clearing this issue up! There is still opportunity in this area for everyone! Anyone seen back here past the gate in a vehicle that is hunting, had better not have come through the gate! Any Canfor employee arrogant enough to flaunt that they have access for their personal use, doenot value their employment, and will be kept to task by all resource users, be it resident hunters, Guide outfitters, or first nations. Moosin

PS, Curt, this plan is renewed or updated every 5 years. You can find out when this happens, and you can have your say at the planning stage, either as a interested Joe public, or you can be represented by your local BCWF club.

[Drillbit]

FYI

"Do Not Copy" on a key might work for honest people. It is a joke of a security layer.


The kid at the local hardware store, the one with a neck tattoo and piercings all over his face, doesn't care what it says on keys. If the blank is there, it'll be copied. The old guy at the lock & key store, he reads them tho.

[moosinaround]

FYI

"Do Not Copy" on a key might work for honest people. It is a joke of a security layer.


The kid at the local hardware store, the one with a neck tattoo and piercings all over his face, doesn't care what it says on keys. If the blank is there, it'll be copied. The old guy at the lock & key store, he reads them tho.

Armed personnel the answer? This is what the round table players decided as an action. If there are better ideas, feel free to join the discussion and voice a better solution?!! I have friends who have jumped on the resident hunter team, and are voicing the resident hunters agenda, lets support these folks as much as we can. As far as people doing illegal activities, like copying keys, using their influence to further their own cause, are putting their livelihood at risk. They will get what they sow, there are many thousand HBC members looking for them now!

[browningboy]

I know where you are talking, there is 5 or so cabins about 100 yards from the gate? This was close to the Graham River area?

[tuner]

So, three possible outcomes...
1) nothing happens... you continue to get further enraged
2) someone gets sympathetic and cuts you a key... you become one of the privileged few and we all can bitch about your special treatment
3) the gate comes down and everyone has access... you get to hunt a sensitive area that may become unsustainable through over use.

Which do you prefer?

Back in the 70's, my dad's hunting partner was a foreman at Spruce Falls - a lumber camp in Ontario near Kapuskasing. Crown land leased to the Company with gates to control access. Eric had a key, we hunted in solitude for 10 days each fall and had the luxury of viewing 10, sometimes 20 different moose before selecting the animals we wanted. We were directed to hunt in an area where there was no active cutting, we ate in camp with the employees and we didn't strut around the gate taunting people that hunted up to the gate. At the time we really enjoyed the privilege and we did not mention where we hunted to anyone in town as it was sure to start a fight. Was it wrong? I don't think so. Like anything else, membership has it's privileges. If the gate came down, it would have presented an uncontrollable danger to the crews. This way, they could manage the number of hunters and ensure they were not near the active areas.
What a crock of shit, when was the last time a logger got shot by a hunters bullet? Active logging and hunting have co existed in this province as long as I can remember, without incident.

[Drillbit]

Armed personnel the answer? This is what the round table players decided as an action. If there are better ideas, feel free to join the discussion and voice a better solution?!! I have friends who have jumped on the resident hunter team, and are voicing the resident hunters agenda, lets support these folks as much as we can. As far as people doing illegal activities, like copying keys, using their influence to further their own cause, are putting their livelihood at risk. They will get what they sow, there are many thousand HBC members looking for them now!

I was simply pointing out that locks only keep honest people out. "Do Not Copy" is a joke. If by "round table players" you mean management type people that have no real life experience, I'm not surprised that they would think putting "do not copy" on a key would keep anybody unauthorized out.

How much do you want to bet that the guide in that area has an unauthorized key?

You seriously think nobody has been abusing that gate for hunting purposes?


For what it's worth, I have not idea where this gate is, haven't even been interested enough to google it's location. The only reason I read this thread is that I have encountered several gates and no hunting signs on crown land and feel the frustration of the OP.

[Drillbit]

What a crock of shit, when was the last time a logger got shot by a hunters bullet? Active logging and hunting have co existed in this province as long as I can remember, without incident.

I agree. Never has been an issue.

[moosinaround]

I was simply pointing out that locks only keep honest people out. "Do Not Copy" is a joke. If by "round table players" you mean management type people that have no real life experience, I'm not surprised that they would think putting "do not copy" on a key would keep anybody unauthorized out.

How much do you want to bet that the guide in that area has an unauthorized key?

You seriously think nobody has been abusing that gate for hunting purposes?


For what it's worth, I have not idea where this gate is, haven't even been interested enough to google it's location. The only reason I read this thread is that I have encountered several gates and no hunting signs on crown land and feel the frustration of the OP.

agree, so instead of complaining about it, let's hold people accountable?!! curt has opened up folks eyes, licence holders will have to answer his ???'s. People abusing the system will be under the microscope! It's an important area, with very specific rules users need to follow. If they are abusing the rules, someone will get held accountable. That is why a RPBio offered up some insight to why the gate is there. Keys and locks can be changed, if abuse still remains, the abusers will be found. Moosin

[Cordillera]

FYI

"Do Not Copy" on a key might work for honest people. It is a joke of a security layer.


The kid at the local hardware store, the one with a neck tattoo and piercings all over his face, doesn't care what it says on keys. If the blank is there, it'll be copied. The old guy at the lock & key store, he reads them tho.

Usually the keys with do not copy dont have blanks available at the local hardware store. I tried to have one copied for my ski club (to our lodge as we had lost our spares) and could not do it locally. It may not be foolproof but using do not copy keys makes it harder to cheat the system.

[northernbc]

most people that want in quad thru the river. just do not leave stuff to close to the gate there have been burnings and equip damage

[steveo]

I know gates can be frustrating but some times they are necessary because of our fellow man. During one of my trapping seasons I was spending more time opening and closing gates than I was actually trapping so I asked a company personal why all the gates? He said even though there is no visible equipment still on the claim the area is still being used by other groups. There still may be logs road side that a self loader will return for, log salvagers and commercial fire wood cutters may be next in line, garbage dumping problems, people stealing christmas trees, people even dumping down merchantable trees, species sensitive area, and the list goes on and on. Like I said before I don't agree with harvesters using their key for personal hunting grounds but if our fellow outdoor users and yes fellow hunters were more responsible, gates would not be an issue.

[curt]

I was contacted by John Gibbons from canfor ft st john he told me there was only 5 keys and the guides and trappers were provided with keys??? so someone isn't accurate here just sayin
Good morning. Here is some information on the history and mandate of this gate, as well as the current status.

The Fort St. John Land and Resource Management Plan (LRMP - 1997) identifies the importance of access management to maintain wilderness characteristics and fish and wildlife habitats over time. The Graham River valley is specifically identified in the LRMP and the Graham River Integrated Resource Management Management Plan (GRIRMP - 1998 ) with a variety of high value resources including timber, fish and wildlife, recreation and scenic values. Key elements of the GRIRMP, including access management and specifically the gate in question, are made operational by the approved Sustainable Forest Management Plan (SFMP) which undergoes regular review by a Public Advisory Group that includes First Nations representation.

The SFMP commits Canfor to managing access to meet the objectives identified in the SFMP, GRIRMP and LRMP. Currently, the mechanism to manage access is a locked gate to which exactly 11 keys are signed out to individuals (Canfor staff and contractors, BCTS, COS, and two trappers), numbered and stamped "Do Not Copy". The lock is changed regularly and keys reissued to enhance security.

The local Guide Outfitter does not have access through the gate. Further, Canfor's terms of employment prohibit their staff from using their privilege of employment to access the gate for personal use. More broadly, Canfor employees are prohibited from hunting at all while working. However, Canfor employees acting in their own personal interest on their own time, as well as the Guide Outfitter, are able to access the area but are required to use the same means available to any resident hunter.

Of note, areas behind the gate are also subject to the 1400m South Peace Elevation Closure, which prohibits operation of motor vehicles above 1400m to protect sensitive alpine habitats.

As suggested before, please contact Nick Baccante (Nick.Baccante@gov.bc.ca) or me (Christopher.Addison@gov.bc.ca).

Regards,

Chris Addison, R.P. Bio
Director of Resource Management, Northeast
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations

[Drillbit]

Smells fishy to me Curt.

Sounds to me like there should be a list of who gets a key to clear things up.

To me, as a BC resident hunter, if the guide has a key, that IS a problem. Trapper, to me, is OK tho.

And to me, the Canfor employee you ran into hunting behind the gate with a key, should be looking for a new job.

Looking forward to learning more from this