Permit to Accompany is confusing at best

[Buckmeister]

FrontCounter BC website information as opposed to what the synopsis says leaves something to be desired.

Here's my situation. A friend of a friend, who is not related to me, has asked me to apply for a Permit to Accompany so he can hunt here in BC. He is a Canadian citizen, but he lives in the USA. FrontCounter BC website says the following:

Who you will be accompanying




Applicants may accompany either or both:

A non-resident - a person who is not a resident of British Columbia but who

is a Canadian Citizen, a permanent resident of Canada; or,
Has his/her sole or permanent residence in Canada and has resided in Canada for the 12 month period immediately prior to the date of this application.






So reading this tells me he is not eligible, he must live in Canada. And then page 9 of the synopsis says this:

Big Game accompanied hunts



A non-resident of BC who is a resident of
Canada or a Canadian citizen may be accompanied by a resident of BC who holds a Permit

to Accompany. Only one Permit to Accompany will be issued to a person in a licence year.



So according to the synopsis, it sounds like he is eligible simply cause he's Canadian.

So far I have talked to 2 FrontCounter people who couldn't answer me cause they didn't know, a third who said he is not eligible, and I'm still waiting for a return phone call from the person who actually does the permitting. I also talked with the CO service on the advise of the uninformed FrontCounter people, the fellow there simply consulted the regs, which I have posted above, and in his opinion he felt this guy is eligible. But all this might be moot anyways because they say the permit processing usually takes a minimum of 30 days depending on region and how many applications are in the queue. So by the time the permit is processed, it may be too late to hunt.

My question for anyone reading this is: Have you heard or know of anyone who is a Canadian citizen who lives outside of Canada that has been able to hunt in BC with a BC resident with a permit to accompany?

[Gateholio]

Not sure what the confusion is. Both sources state that as a Canadian citizen, he is eligible.

[Buckmeister]

Not sure what the confusion is. Both sources state that as a Canadian citizen, he is eligible.

Re-read line 1. of the first source. The guy from FrontCounter read this to me and said he is not eligible. He was saying a Canadian who actually lived in Canada. I think the punctuation on line 1. needs re-working.

[Buckmeister]

So I just got a call from the lady working in permitting. She couldn't give me an answer either and said she would call me back on Monday. Crazy!

[kawdy]

Many of the bureaucrats are confused on this matter. If he is a Canadian he can hunt under a permit to accompany regardless of where he is living. U.S., Australia, Hong Kong etc. it doesn't matter. I personally know a couple of Canadians living in the U.S. who have hunted in B.C. under the permit to accompany, and they had no family connections, just a friend like your situation.

[Gateholio]

I read it a few times before I posted my interpretation. If the person is a Canadian, he need not be a resident of Canada. If he needed to be a a resident, it would have said

is a Canadian Citizen AND a permanent resident of Canada;

[Mulehahn]

Applicants may accompany either or both:
A non-resident - a person who is not a resident of British Columbia but who


is a Canadian Citizen, a permanent resident of Canada; or,
Has his/her sole or permanent residence in Canada and has resided in Canada for the 12 month period immediately prior to the date of this application.


The way I read this is the person has to be either a Canadian Citizen, or has lived in Canada for at least 12 months prior. This would allow a BC resident to take a spouse who is not a full Canadian Citizen, or a student who has been in Canada for a year but intends to return home to hunt in BC with a resident. This is just a few examples.

[Buckmeister]

I read it a few times before I posted my interpretation. If the person is a Canadian, he need not be a resident of Canada. If he needed to be a a resident, it would have said

is a Canadian Citizen AND a permanent resident of Canada;



I agree with what your saying. I think they are getting too wordy. They should simplify by saying:

1. Is a Canadian citizen
2. Is not a Canadian citizen but has resided permanently in Canada for at least 12 months blah blah blah.

[shanevg]

Anyone want to adopt me so I can have a family member in BC?

[budismyhorse]

Not trying to be a dick.... But "a friend of a friend" is outside of the spirit of the intent of this permit.

This type of thing is exactly why the GOABC is battling this thing and only makes it more and more difficult to keep this permit going.

[Gateholio]

Not trying to be a dick.... But "a friend of a friend" is outside of the spirit of the intent of this permit.

This type of thing is exactly why the GOABC is battling this thing and only makes it more and more difficult to keep this permit going.

Start a thread on the topic and list your opinions there. This thread is about information

[argyle1]

the key word is "or". I don't see any confusion here

[Eastbranch]

Yes he can hunt with you. Make sure to provide them with documentation of his citizenship. Worst case ontario, go through the wildlife act itself and print off the relevant sections as backup.

[P-17]

When considering these kinds of things, it is always best to start with the source. Here is section 70 of the Wildlife Act:

70 ( 1) The regional manager may, by issuing a permit containing conditions the regional manager considers suitable, authorize
(a) a resident, who holds a hunting licence and meets the prescribed qualifications, to accompany
(i) a non resident, or
(ii) a non resident alien
as provided in the regulations, while hunting big game, if no remuneration is requested by, offered to or accepted by the permittee, or

(b) a guide outfitter or angling guide to guide in an area other than that endorsed on his or her guide outfitter licence or angling guide licence.

(2) A person commits an offence if the person, without a permit issued under subsection (1), accompanies a non resident or a non resident alien referred to in subsection (1) (a) (i) or (ii) while the non resident or the non resident alien hunts for big game.

Under the Permit Regulation, section 16 states:

16 (1) To be eligible for a permit under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act an applicant
must
(a) be at least 19 years of age,
(b) be a citizen or permanent resident of Canada, and
(c) have
(i) held a British Columbia resident hunting licence and a big game species licence for 3 of the 5 licence years immediately preceding the application for a permit, or
(ii) successfully completed the CORE program as defined in B.C. Reg. 53/98, the Hunter Safety Training Regulation, and have held a British Columbia resident hunting licence and a big game species licence for 2 of the 5 licence years immediately preceding the application for a permit.

(2) A person is not eligible for a permit under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act if
(a) another permit under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act has been issued to the person in the same licence year,
(b) either the applicant or the non-resident or non-resident alien to whom the permit would apply has been convicted of an offence
(i) specified under section 84 (1) (a) of the Act within the 5 year period immediately preceding the application for a permit, or
(ii) specified under
(A) section 84 (1) (b) of the Act, or
(B) the Firearm Act (http://www.huntingbc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96145_01)
within the 3 year period immediately preceding the application for a permit, or
(c) another permit under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act has been issued for a different time period in the same licence year that applies to the non-resident or non-resident alien whom the person will accompany under the permit.

(3) A permit must not be issued under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act
(a) for a period of more than 21 days,
(b) that applies to more than one region established by section 3 of B.C. Reg. 190/84, the Hunting Regulation,
(c) to allow the permit holder to accompany more than 2 non-residents or non-resident aliens, or
(d) to allow the permit holder to accompany a non-resident alien who is not, in relation to the permit holder, a father, brother, son, uncle, nephew, grandson, grandfather, mother, sister, daughter, aunt, niece, granddaughter, grandmother, spouse, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law or sister-in-law. [emphasis added]

(4) A person commits an offence if he or she
(a) hunts big game while in the company of a non-resident or non-resident alien who is hunting big game unless there is present a guide licenced under the Act or a person who holds a permit under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act that applies to that non-resident or non-resident alien,
(b) holds a permit under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act and, while accompanying a non-resident or non-resident alien to which the permit applies, fails to hold a valid British Columbia resident hunting licence and a species licence for the species being hunted, or
(c) holds a permit under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act and fails to accompany the non-resident or non-resident alien to which the permit applies while that person is hunting big game unless a guide licenced under the Act or another person who holds a permit under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act that applies to the same non-resident or non-resident alien is accompanying that non-resident or non-resident alien.

(5) If the circumstances of a person to whom a permit under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act has been issued or of the non-resident or non-resident alien to whom the permit applies change before the time specified in the permit so that the person or the non-resident or non-resident alien no longer meet the requirements of subsections (1), (2) and (3) (d), the person commits an offence if he or she carries out the activities authorized by the permit.

(6) It is a term of every permit issued under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act that, within 10 days after the hunt authorized by the permit is concluded, the permit holder submit a report containing the following information to the permit issuer:
(a) the name of the permit holder;
(b) the name of the hunter accompanied by the permit holder;
(c) the management unit and the location within the management unit where the permit holder and the accompanied hunter hunted;
(d) the dates that the permit holder and the accompanied hunter hunted and the total number of days hunted;
(e) the species hunted;
(f) details of each game animal killed including
(i) species,
(ii) sex,
(iii) age class, and
(iv) the location where the game was killed.

(7) A permit holder may submit the information required under subsection (6) in a form provided by the director for that purpose.

(8 ) It is a term of every permit issued under section 70 (1) (a) of the Act that, within 30 days after the hunt authorized by the permit is concluded, the permit holder must submit royalties to the director for each animal taken by a non-resident or non-resident alien under the permit, in the amount provided in Schedule 1.06 of the Wildlife Act Commercial Activities Regulation.

[am. B.C. Reg. 142/2004.]

Section 1 of the Wildlife Act has the following definitions of "non-resident" and "non-resident alien":

"non resident" means
(a) a person who is not a resident but who is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, or
(b) a person who
(i) is not a resident, but whose only or primary residence is in Canada, and
(ii) has resided in Canada for the 12 month period immediately before making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act;

"non resident alien" means a person who is neither a resident nor a non resident;


I would use these provisions as a starting point and then see if there are any specific policies of the Minister or Director that limit this discretion further.

[Buckmeister]

To update this thread. I finally got a call back from the lady who issues permits. Her answer was 'yes, he is good to go'. Only problem is that permits can take a minimum of 30 days to process, sometimes faster. But we are now too late to apply for the dates he was hoping to hunt.

[rollingrock]

I didn't see your thread until today. I've used the same permit to accompany my family member a few times. Actually the application form you download from the website will give you all the information and walk you through the process. No confusion at all.

[Xenomorph]

Many of the bureaucrats are confused on this matter. If he is a Canadian he can hunt under a permit to accompany regardless of where he is living. U.S., Australia, Hong Kong etc. it doesn't matter. I personally know a couple of Canadians living in the U.S. who have hunted in B.C. under the permit to accompany, and they had no family connections, just a friend like your situation.

That right there shouldn't be publicized unless you want your friend to get in trouble. Permit to accompany in those cases are "family ties only" anything else is "please refer to guided outfitters".

Just saying, be careful peeps.

[Buckmeister]

That right there shouldn't be publicized unless you want your friend to get in trouble. Permit to accompany in those cases are "family ties only" anything else is "please refer to guided outfitters".

Just saying, be careful peeps.

No offense, but why??? If it's legal than it's legit.

Who cares about the whiny G.O.'s? And big deal if they live outside of the borders of Canada, if they are Canadian period, they are good to go. I can accompany any Canadian citizen living outside of BC, regardless if I know them or not. Heck, I can accompany a non-canadian citizen who happens to live in Canada too for that matter, under the proper provisions of course.

I think this thread has brought to light some fears people have about the whole non-resident/guide outfitter business blah blah blah. As residents, we have been prescribed certain rights, and our fellow Canadians have allowances too. If it's allowed, why fear it? The rules don't specify you have to know the person.

[264mag]

Can anyone confirm if you can host 2 hunters on the permit to accompany?

[Xenomorph]

No offense, but why??? If it's legal than it's legit.

Who cares about the whiny G.O.'s? And big deal if they live outside of the borders of Canada, if they are Canadian period, they are good to go. I can accompany any Canadian citizen living outside of BC, regardless if I know them or not. Heck, I can accompany a non-canadian citizen who happens to live in Canada too for that matter, under the proper provisions of course.

I think this thread has brought to light some fears people have about the whole non-resident/guide outfitter business blah blah blah. As residents, we have been prescribed certain rights, and our fellow Canadians have allowances too. If it's allowed, why fear it? The rules don't specify you have to know the person.


I'm more concerned about the wordiness of the "right" to be honest. I agree with you, should be clear as mud, you're accompanying a fellow hunter etc. But then you have to deal with the CO's own perspective on the matter and one might be surprised of the outcome. As long as we find official interpretation on the that I'm all for it. Opens up to possibilities and friends, good times and memories to last a lifetime.

[264mag]

Can anyone confirm if a bc resident can host two hunters on a permit?

[yama49]

Can anyone confirm if a bc resident can host two hunters on a permit?

no problem there, 2 is max

[264mag]

It looks like this is a now an online application, can you apply with a paper application at a front counter office? Very difficult to navigate the website.

[decker9]

I did the online application last season for a couple goat hunters, was confusing at first, but the lady in the Smithers office was a great help, got it all figured out and had it all approved within a couple weeks.

If I remember correct, I had to save the link to my desk top so I could fill it out, then emailed it to the people in the office.

Was a lot faster then the previous year doing it by mail.

[yama49]

I did the online application last season for a couple goat hunters, was confusing at first, but the lady in the Smithers office was a great help, got it all figured out and had it all approved within a couple weeks.

If I remember correct, I had to save the link to my desk top so I could fill it out, then emailed it to the people in the office.

Was a lot faster then the previous year doing it by mail.

i agree way nicer online and much faster also

[Tuffcity]

One thing to keep in mind is that when it asks you which divisional office to send it to pick the one from the drop down box that looks after the MU's you are planning to hunt, not the one you live in (unless of course that's where you are hunting). IE: if you're from the LML and are planning on hunting in region 8, send the application to Kamloops.

RC