Stop posting your hunting video,s

[savagecanuck]

I saw this on CGN as too many greenies and anti hunting people keep using the videos for their own cause.There's a black bear hunting video of a 9 year old boy being coached by his father. It's all perfectly legal as its private land.Unfortunately they are using this and other videos too make us hunters look like villains.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Can't see that every happening. Certainly would be good to keep the tasteless one off line.

[hare_assassin]

The hunting community needs a voice. A loud one. We need to articulate what hunting is all about.

These videos, taken out of context and with no foundation of understanding, fuel the fire and create more antis. These antis are largely meat-eaters who are completely detached from the fact that they are responsible for the deaths of many, many animals. Those deaths are often just as "horrific" as the sometimes messy deaths of wild animals.

The difference, of course, is that at least wild animals are free and live as they should while they are alive, and at least we hunters take direct responsibility for the deaths of the animals we eat. We have a direct and deep connection with these animals that we eat.

So, where is our voice? What organization should be communicating this to the public?

[IslandBC]

My don't like it don't watch it thought process for the anti hunters is the same thought process for us hunters . If you don't like what the antis have to say then don't scroll down and read the comments. Hunting is here to stay. All those hypocrite hippies can go F%<k themselves

[IslandBC]

Assassin , check out joe rogans pod cast with Jim shockey . They do an excellent job of voicing what hunting is all about.

[Surrey Boy]

We need to normalize hunting, not put it underground.

[hare_assassin]

Assassin , check out joe rogans pod cast with Jim shockey . They do an excellent job of voicing what hunting is all about.

Yes. But we (hunters) are the only ones listening. They are preaching to the choir.

[hare_assassin]

We need to normalize hunting, not put it underground.

I agree. However, the only way to do that is to match every messy hunting video with an equally messy abattoir death video. I think that is the only thing that might shake the citiots into realizing how ****ing hypocritical and nonsensical they truly are.

PETA could be a source of these videos, and unwittingly and unwillingly become our ally. :D

I'm just saying that "killing animals" should not be something that somehow sets hunters apart in the imaginary world of non-hunters. As a group, non-hunters are responsible for many orders of magnitude more animal deaths (and suffering!) than we hunters. It's ridiculous for them to pass judgement. They are the weak ones who shunt the responsibility and hide behind their "morals". Truly, thoroughly brainwashed, is what they are. Videos of animals being shot just make them froth at the mouth (and then they go back to eating their hormone soaked "chicken" wings.)

[Salty]

We need to normalize hunting, not put it underground.

This. Its going that direction and we need to keep it doing so the end of the spectrum weirdos will always be there and there's nothing that will change that. There's hunting tv shows, magazines web sites like this and other social media about hunting the last we thing we want to do is stop showing images of hunting whatever the medium. I think all of us should realise that anything we put out there could be used by antis and act accordingly but don't ever stop posting photos and videos of hunting, be proud that you are a hunter never hide it.

[hare_assassin]

This. Its going that direction and we need to keep it doing so the end of the spectrum weirdos will always be there and there's nothing that will change that. There's hunting tv shows, magazines web sites like this and other social media about hunting the last we thing we want to do is stop showing images of hunting whatever the medium. I think all of us should realise that anything we put out there could be used by antis and act accordingly but don't ever stop posting photos and videos of hunting, be proud that you are a hunter never hide it.

Sure, just leave the high fives and other macho bullshit out of them. Nothing turns people off more than that crap. They immediately see it as a celebration of killing. Not the image we want, IMO.

[KodiakHntr]

We need to normalize hunting, not put it underground.

Nailed it.

I was thinking about this today at work. The porn industry had it right. Put it out there, and people get used to it. Hide it, and people will assume it's wrong.

[Salty]

I wouldn't worry about a few high fives or whatever personally if they want to find footage of that angle all they need to do is watch about any hunting show. JMO but as said there's a bunch that will never be happy don't worry about them be yourself and share your stories the same way. Hunting is a time honoured lawful activity not something to be dressed up or faked it is what it is. The only thing we need to worry about is putting game down as efficiently we can given circumstances. What antis think of it is their business not a worry of mine.

[warnniklz]

We need to normalize hunting, not put it underground.

YESSSSSSSS! It's been awhile since I've done my CORE. But recently read in the new book of teachings to keep dead animals out of sight. Frig that noise!! Show them loud and proud!!

[Glenny]

Sure, just leave the high fives and other macho bullshit out of them. Nothing turns people off more than that crap. They immediately see it as a celebration of killing. Not the image we want, IMO.

Yes leave out the bravado and the "That's wot I'm talkn bouts" A lot of the hosts of these shows are class acts. Shockey, robins, Guide life guy, and them pesky Beaslys, and Tj. They highlight there appreciation for the animals they take.

[hare_assassin]

I wouldn't worry about a few high fives or whatever personally if they want to find footage of that angle all they need to do is watch about any hunting show.

And that's what's wrong with hunting shows. JMO.


JMO but as said there's a bunch that will never be happy don't worry about them be yourself and share your stories the same way. Hunting is a time honoured lawful activity not something to be dressed up or faked it is what it is. The only thing we need to worry about is putting game down as efficiently we can given circumstances. What antis think of it is their business not a worry of mine.

Social media is changing that, I think. It doesn't take much for a relatively passive non-hunter to become convinced that hunting is evil, and there's more and more of the crap out there to convince them all the time. Public opinion can change fairly quickly. After all, the vast majority are automatons.

I just think that now, more than ever (in the age of mass social media) it is important for us to have a voice that doesn't offend the fence-sitters.

We need to put the image of the drunk, buck-toothed, hillbilly hunter behind us.

[brian]

Hunting by its very nature is brutal and shocking to those who are uninitiated. Hiding its very nature won't make it less shocking when people see it for the first time.

[hare_assassin]

Hunting by its very nature is brutal and shocking to those who are uninitiated. Hiding its very nature won't make it less shocking when people see it for the first time.

Very true. However when they see it, they somehow conclude that this act sets hunters apart as "killers", as opposed to the rest of the meat-eaters on the planet who get their meat from animals that weren't killed.


I truly believe that it is a type of insanity. The surest sign of this is the fact that they think we are insane.

[Fred1]

Nailed it.

I was thinking about this today at work. The porn industry had it right. Put it out there, and people get used to it. Hide it, and people will assume it's wrong.

yup... I totally dig porn and have become accustom to it...

[hare_assassin]

yup... I totally dig porn and have become accustom to it...

Now that right there cracked me up! LOL

[IslandBC]

It's not the celebration of killing ... It's the celebration of a successful hunt and everything it took to get yourself to the point of just being given the opportunity to kill an animal. They don't realize 100% of hunters get skunked 9/10 hunts. That macho high five and smiles is from pre season scouting, hiking up and down mountains, fallowing the sign, reading the wind properly, out smarting the game your hunting. Presistance pays off and when it does yep your pretty happy about it

[hare_assassin]

It's not the celebration of killing ... It's the celebration of a successful hunt and everything it took to get yourself to the point of just being given the opportunity to kill an animal. They don't realize 100% of hunters get skunked 9/10 hunts. That macho high five and smiles is from pre season scouting, hiking up and down mountains, fallowing the sign, reading the wind properly, out smarting the game your hunting. Presistance pays off and when it does yep your pretty happy about it

No need to convince me. I know. I high-fived both my daughters when they both got their first bucks on Sept 1, before noon. And I'm not a "high-five kinda guy". At all.

What I didn't do is video it and put it on Facebook. But then I'm not an attention whore kinda guy, either.

[Fosey]

We don't need to be showing our kills, it is a private thing. When we harvest a wild animal it is personal thing where we get our food from and we don't need to dramatize it on the Internet. That hunt of the Grizzly being shot is disgusting. We don't post on the Internet every cow, pig or chicken that is killed, why do people have to show wild game being shot.

[Peter Pepper]

I don't know about this idea.
When I stumbled across this website about 4 years ago. I'd never hunted or shot a gun. My family didn't hunt, I'd never been friends with a hunter. I read the posts as they were open for all to see. I looked at some vids of hunting, some where tasteful, some not.
I decided to take the courses and teach myself to hunt. Now my wife and I eat deer every few days, I've shot 9 so far. 3 a year. I've always been an outdoorsmen, now I will be a life long hunter too.
Now 4 of my close friends have now got their PAL's Two of them have their CORE. Several others appreciate the meat they've eaten at my house and have expressed interest in hunting. And their attitudes about hunter have changed. We are all in our mid 20's to mid 30's from non hunting shooting families.
All this happened because I found a public forum talking the truth about hunting.
Hiding in the shadows will be the death of our sport.
Please get out and introduce novices to shooting. I do it whenever I can. Except maybe the 19 year old girl at my work has been asking to go hunting or shooting with me. (I might have to run that one by the wife first though)
Keep your heads held high,
Thank you HBC,

[hare_assassin]

We don't need to be showing our kills, it is a private thing. When we harvest a wild animal it is personal thing where we get our food from and we don't need to dramatize it on the Internet. That hunt of the Grizzly being shot is disgusting. We don't post on the Internet every cow, pig or chicken that is killed, why do people have to show wild game being shot.

Indeed. Why can't it be an experience that we simply share with friends and loved ones, building memories that are just for us?

[hare_assassin]

I don't know about this idea.
When I stumbled across this website about 4 years ago. I'd never hunted or shot a gun. My family didn't hunt, I'd never been friends with a hunter. I read the posts as they were open for all to see. I looked at some vids of hunting, some where tasteful, some not.
I decided to take the courses and teach myself to hunt. Now my wife and I eat deer every few days, I've shot 9 so far. 3 a year. I've always been an outdoorsmen, now I will be a life long hunter too.
Now 4 of my close friends have now got their PAL's Two of them have their CORE. Several others appreciate the meat they've eaten at my house and have expressed interest in hunting. And their attitudes about hunter have changed. We are all in our mid 20's to mid 30's from non hunting shooting families.
All this happened because I found a public forum talking the truth about hunting.
Hiding in the shadows will be the death of our sport.
Please get out and introduce novices to shooting. I do it whenever I can. Except maybe the 19 year old girl at my work has been asking to go hunting or shooting with me. (I might have to run that one by the wife first though)
Keep your heads held high,
Thank you HBC,

This is awesome!

[Good2bCanadian]

How about pictures?

I really enjoy seeing guys kills.
Should we stop that?

How about camoflauge in public? That screams hunter.

We should cover up meat shops store fronts like porno shops. Don't want to show off that gore.

Where does it end?

Gay people fly their rainbow colors and tons of people hate them.

We need an oversized closet to hide our past time.

Hiding is not the answer. IMO

[Fred1]

Exactly! Why we hiding it?! I never hide it!
My name is Fred and I dig porn and I hunt and kill stuff!!
We should also support topless beaches in the Okanagan!!

[moosinaround]

Exactly! Why we hiding it?! I never hide it!
My name is Fred and I dig porn and I hunt and kill stuff!!
We should also support topless beaches in the Okanagan!!
Porn is the same, everyone watches, but its the final blast they are waiting for!!

[two-feet]

Assassin , check out joe rogans pod cast with Jim shockey . They do an excellent job of voicing what hunting is all about.

I would agree that Rogan is an excellent voice for hunters. He brings up hunting constantly and says all the right things. His episodes with shockey, rinella, remi warren, cameron haines etc are fantastic listening if you enjoy hunting. His listenership is over a million people per podcast so the message is getting out.

[Gateholio]

Starting in the late 1970's and for the next few decades, it was preached to gun owners and hunters :

"Out of sight, out of mind"

"Be Discrete, they will leave us alone"

THIS BACKFIRED HORRIBLY FOR GUN OWNERS AND HUNTERS!!!!!!

It is the absolute WORST thing any group can do.

Look at the current Bruce/Caitlin Jenner thing going on right now. Transgendered people have never had more acceptance than right now, and they didn't get it by hiding in the shadows in shame.

[Wentrot]

Stand proud, don't hide it and when you are doing 140 on your way home this fall with that buck strapped to the roof-Just smile!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I don't know about this idea.
When I stumbled across this website about 4 years ago. I'd never hunted or shot a gun. My family didn't hunt, I'd never been friends with a hunter. I read the posts as they were open for all to see. I looked at some vids of hunting, some where tasteful, some not.
I decided to take the courses and teach myself to hunt. Now my wife and I eat deer every few days, I've shot 9 so far. 3 a year. I've always been an outdoorsmen, now I will be a life long hunter too.
Now 4 of my close friends have now got their PAL's Two of them have their CORE. Several others appreciate the meat they've eaten at my house and have expressed interest in hunting. And their attitudes about hunter have changed. We are all in our mid 20's to mid 30's from non hunting shooting families.
All this happened because I found a public forum talking the truth about hunting.
Hiding in the shadows will be the death of our sport.
Please get out and introduce novices to shooting. I do it whenever I can. Except maybe the 19 year old girl at my work has been asking to go hunting or shooting with me. (I might have to run that one by the wife first though)
Keep your heads held high,
Thank you HBC,

Share the passion and knowledge. That's what it's all about.
Well said PP.

[Ride Red]

We need to normalize hunting, not put it underground.


Exactly this. If we hide it, they win by telling everyone so.

[NIHunter]

howtohunt.com is almost here

[Wentrot]

howtohunt.com is almost here

Already is for meeee :D

[.300WSMImpact!]

yes we should get our own cross walk, but what colour should it be?

[Good2bCanadian]

Red ^^^^

Blood red

[argyle1]

good luck getting hunters to vote together. Half the people on this site are ndp'ers (and that is their right, I have no problem with that) who will vote for that anti-hunting, anti- firearms party because they don't believe these issues are as important as supporting union adgendas. It may be those kind of people that will tip the balance of power away from government that supports hunting and firearms ownership to government whose adgenda is to do away with these freedoms.



The hunting community needs a voice. A loud one. We need to articulate what hunting is all about.

These videos, taken out of context and with no foundation of understanding, fuel the fire and create more antis. These antis are largely meat-eaters who are completely detached from the fact that they are responsible for the deaths of many, many animals. Those deaths are often just as "horrific" as the sometimes messy deaths of wild animals.

The difference, of course, is that at least wild animals are free and live as they should while they are alive, and at least we hunters take direct responsibility for the deaths of the animals we eat. We have a direct and deep connection with these animals that we eat.

So, where is our voice? What organization should be communicating this to the public?

[375shooter]

If we must post our hunting videos, maybe they should included clips of us cooking the meat then eating it. The anti's would then see that we actually do eat what we kill.

[Pemby_mess]

We need to normalize hunting, not put it underground.

There's a reason the slaughterhouse doesn't have windows on it. Everybody knows what happens there but our society would change fundamentally if it was open for all to see.

Porn is not a great example. There's a lot thats objectionable there and much exploitation that goes on.

Perhaps here's an analogy that frames how those like myself think about this:

You're a young 20 something year old man out conquesting young women. Not everyone partakes in casual sex, but its hard to deny that its a healthy, natural element of humanity that should be normalized and not put underground. Now you start filming every detail and sharing it on social media, people are bound to think there is something wrong with you no? Its not the action itself that objectionable, its the matter in which is celebrated that puts people off.

[Pemby_mess]

If we must post our hunting videos, maybe they should included clips of us cooking the meat then eating it. The anti's would then see that we actually do eat what we kill.

I agree that context is incredibly important - if all you show is the pursuit and the killing - that is what people are being trained to think of your primary priorities. I have yet to actually meet a hunter who's primary focus is the moment in time an animal expires, yet thats the intuitive climax portrayed in most online hunting videos.

I think somehow Proguides videos are quite tastefully edited, and I enjoy them immensely. In the professional TV realm, I quite enjoy Steven Rinella who happens to be an excellent spokesman who gets the entire context.

[Salty]

I don't like watching Nascar or golf so what I do is not watch it. I'll say it again there is nothing abnormal about hunting and people have been recording the kill since cave men made pictographs. Hiding what we do is a fools choice like Gatehouse said that was tried and it backfired on hunters and gun owners big time some of us with a little grey hair lived it and learned it. If you take a video of a hunt and you like it, share it same with photos and stories. Posting excessively detailed images of poor shots or an animal suffering aren't images 99% of hunters would like, or post.

[Pemby_mess]

I don't like watching Nascar or golf so what I do is not watch it. I'll say it again there is nothing abnormal about hunting and people have been recording the kill since cave men made pictographs. Hiding what we do is a fools choice like Gatehouse said that was tried and it backfired on hunters and gun owners big time some of us with a little grey hair lived it and learned it. If you take a video of a hunt and you like it, share it same with photos and stories. Posting excessively detailed images of poor shots or an animal suffering aren't images 99% of hunters would like, or post.

Agreed, a Filter on what makes it public is important. Anything you can do through additional video footage, editing, supporting narrative, and the writtten word will help with context. be thoughtful and respectful with what you say. No hunter is going be successful at pandering to or trying to convert a bonified vegan anti, nor should they. Public discourse should try to remain respectful of mainstream uninitiated thought which is largely swing - neither for us or against us. Extreme positions should be well thought out and vetted through peer discussion such as on here before being brought into mainstream discussion.

[Foxton Gundogs]

We need to normalize hunting, not put it underground.

Exactly, I wonder what are the copyright laws for private videos? If they are/can be protected then the videographer could go after the antis misusing them.

[Pemby_mess]

Exactly, I wonder what are the copyright laws for private videos? If they are/can be protected then the videographer could go after the antis misusing them.

I'd say that ship has sailed. If giant publishing, broadcasting, record houses fail to be able to enforce copyrights, then an individual or small group of individuals against an activist group with zero income/assets stands little chance. Keep in mind that most anti hunting media/activism activity isn't even from organized groups - simply faceless voices popping up in media mobs every once in a while and fanning flames of public opposition.

[skibum]

You might think all your hunting buddies are great guys. they think the way you do. But there are idiots out their.

All your normalize hunting effort will all be lost with one moron posting something like a bloody grizzly sliding down a snow bank.

And no, hunters do not have to support each other blindly

[J_T]

You might think all your hunting buddies are great guys. they think the way you do. But there are idiots out their.


^An accurate statement.

[ACB]

Heres a question, take a line on a map of B.C.north of Hope and say Squamish right across the province. How many Anti's do you believe live north of that, I'm guessing they would be in the minority. I really believe most of the people in the lower mainland haven't got a clue to the amount of money that is generated in the hunting industry but do know what, Bass Pro Shop and Cabela's do thats why they are going to be front and centre in the lower mainland. Provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan definitely do. At the start of the Non resident rifle season in Sask. at the airports in Saskatoon and Regina you can't get a rental car there all rented out. Their buying gas, meals, motels, beer, and hunting licence's. Their spending millions of dollars. The hunters of B.C. are spending millions of dollars, you don't think the people of northern B.C. don't appreciate this. I'm talking about north of Hope. As far as being ashamed of what I'm, I don't think so. I don't hide the animals that I harvest but for the sake of keeping the meat clean I will keep game in the box of my truck with the canopy closed and if theres no room for the antlers, their on top; not hiding! If the anti's don't like it, F**KEM! Do you think their going to replace the hunting dollars that goes north, with their Eco-tourism dollars. Really! Lets just be a little smarter about putting your experiences on line.

[gamehunter6o]

Would it be more socially acceptable if I only posted videos of me missing game with a volley of shots?
I'm off to reload some rubber bullets.

[Pemby_mess]

Heres a question, take a line on a map of B.C.north of Hope and say Squamish right across the province. How many Anti's do you believe live north of that, I'm guessing they would be in the minority. I really believe most of the people in the lower mainland haven't got a clue to the amount of money that is generated in the hunting industry but do know what, Bass Pro Shop and Cabela's do thats why they are going to be front and centre in the lower mainland. Provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan definitely do. At the start of the Non resident rifle season in Sask. at the airports in Saskatoon and Regina you can't get a rental car there all rented out. Their buying gas, meals, motels, beer, and hunting licence's. Their spending millions of dollars. The hunters of B.C. are spending millions of dollars, you don't think the people of northern B.C. don't appreciate this. I'm talking about north of Hope. As far as being ashamed of what I'm, I don't think so. I don't hide the animals that I harvest but for the sake of keeping the meat clean I will keep game in the box of my truck with the canopy closed and if theres no room for the antlers, their on top; not hiding! If the anti's don't like it, F**KEM! Do you think their going to replace the hunting dollars that goes north, with their Eco-tourism dollars. Really! Lets just be a little smarter about putting your experiences on line.

I think you're bottom line is the bottom line in this thread. But I wouldnt be so quick to assume there arent antis outside the LM. My wife and I just moved to a small town in as about a remote a place as you can get in Southern BC imo. I was quite surprised to find a significant antihunting sentiment. They're likely a very small minority yet still surprising.

Since you brought it up, I don't think you'll get too far with the dollars argument when it comes to Guided Grizzly hunting. Deer sure; maybe even ducks geese and grouse. They're at their highest and best use when they're being hunted. Grizzlies on the other hand, are very iconic, representative of the expansive wilderness Canada is famous for. They represent big renewable dollars and if you broke it down on dollars per bear over the bear's lifetime i'm sure the eco tours would come out ahead. There a regional differences of course, and I have no idea what a sustainable harvest for grizz looks like by the numbers. But I do know that they reproduce somewhat sporadically and slowly and are especially vulnerable to habitat fragmentation. If you turn a species like that into a commercial commodity, history shows it doesn't last long. Thats what our wildlife management regs do - prevent commodification. If you saw grizz meat on the menu at a local restaurant Im sure you're thoughts would turn immediately to the vulnerability of the resource.

[325]

I think you're bottom line is the bottom line in this thread. But I wouldnt be so quick to assume there arent antis outside the LM. My wife and I just moved to a small town in as about a remote a place as you can get in Southern BC imo. I was quite surprised to find a significant antihunting sentiment. They're likely a very small minority yet still surprising.

Since you brought it up, I don't think you'll get too far with the dollars argument when it comes to Guided Grizzly hunting. Deer sure; maybe even ducks geese and grouse. They're at their highest and best use when they're being hunted. Grizzlies on the other hand, are very iconic, representative of the expansive wilderness Canada is famous for. They represent big renewable dollars and if you broke it down on dollars per bear over the bear's lifetime i'm sure the eco tours would come out ahead. There a regional differences of course, and I have no idea what a sustainable harvest for grizz looks like by the numbers. But I do know that they reproduce somewhat sporadically and slowly and are especially vulnerable to habitat fragmentation. If you turn a species like that into a commercial commodity, history shows it doesn't last long. Thats what our wildlife management regs do - prevent commodification. If you saw grizz meat on the menu at a local restaurant Im sure you're thoughts would turn immediately to the vulnerability of the resource.

You've never camped up the Tuchodi, have you?

Grizzly hunting, viewing and the maintenance of the species are not mutually exclusive. Sure, grizzlies are an "iconic" species, but they, like other predators, require management. A presenter at the recent BCWF AGM in Fernie discussed the phenomenon of declining elk populations, and presented the startling statistic that 61% of elk calves are being preyed upon grizzlies and black bears within their first year of life. Grizzlies are a major predator, and in most areas of the province have very healthy and stable populations. Judicious harvest of grizzlies is part of sound wildlife management, IMHO.

[Pemby_mess]

You've never camped up the Tuchodi, have you?

It was high on my list some years ago, have spent time on the Alaska Hwy. Still would love to get into that park. Why?

[Pemby_mess]

I did spend a couple summers out and around ft. Ware which I guess is in the neighbourhood region wise.

[325]

It was high on my list some years ago, have spent time on the Alaska Hwy. Still would love to get into that park. Why?

A few nights spend along the Tuchodi River would dissuade you from the notion that grizzlies are anything but abundant!

[Pemby_mess]

I qualified my statement with "regional differences". That area is obviously the kind of unbroken wilderness perfect for supporting large numbers of grizzlies. The habitat is healthy enough for big bears to reproduce abundantly and rapidly. It also has less opportunity for ecotourism due to its utter remoteness, and lack of concentration in the bear population, therefore less tourism value. Perfect example of where a limited commercial harvest could and perhaps should occur. Those places are becoming much less common - rapidly, which was my point.

[Pemby_mess]

You've never camped up the Tuchodi, have you?

Grizzly hunting, viewing and the maintenance of the species are not mutually exclusive. Sure, grizzlies are an "iconic" species, but they, like other predators, require management. A presenter at the recent BCWF AGM in Fernie discussed the phenomenon of declining elk populations, and presented the startling statistic that 61% of elk calves are being preyed upon grizzlies and black bears within their first year of life. Grizzlies are a major predator, and in most areas of the province have very healthy and stable populations. Judicious harvest of grizzlies is part of sound wildlife management, IMHO.

Key Word: Judicious

Once again, I'm not sure what that means in the context of allowable harvest numbers. However, turning them into a commercially exploitable commodity is a sure way to loose them, and makes it impossible to exercise sound decision making. Interestingly, the Rockies is case in point: its an area under significant threat of fragmentation and the genetics of the grizzlies are suffering; a generation ago they were abundant, now they're in a pinch.

[Gateholio]

Tourists spending money on grizzly viewing is only viable in a very small portion of BC. There already is a commercial harvest of Grizzlies via GOABC.

[325]

Key Word: Judicious

Once again, I'm not sure what that means in the context of allowable harvest numbers. However, turning them into a commercially exploitable commodity is a sure way to loose them, and makes it impossible to exercise sound decision making. Interestingly, the Rockies is case in point: its an area under significant threat of fragmentation and the genetics of the grizzlies are suffering; a generation ago they were abundant, now they're in a pinch.

Not true. Grizzly populations are robust through much of their historic range, including the southern Rockies. Additionally, guided hunts for grizzly bears have been going on for over 75 years, and given the low quotas most GOs receive, are NOT threatened by limited "commercial" use.

[Pemby_mess]

Tourists spending money on grizzly viewing is only viable in a very small portion of BC.

Directly yes, but the animal is iconic enough to bring folks here just to have a chance at seeing them while engaged in other wilderness activities. I agree, its only in those areas where specified grizzly viewing tours operate that you can attempt to put a commercial value on a grizz. However if the numbers decline to the point where its no longer feasible to be around bears so will mucho tourism dollars to "Supernatural BC" decline along with them. Hunting is not the primary pressure but its certainly number two when it comes to grizzly numbers and if the voice of commercial enterprise dictates management decisions, it spells disaster.


already is a commercial harvest of Grizzlies via GOABC.

Yes I am aware of that, thank you.

[325]

This is a presentation worth reading


http://bcwf.net/images/stories/AGM2015/Presentations/MULTI-PREDATOR%20MULTI-PREY%20SYSTEMS%20IN%20THE%20ROCKY%20MOUNTAINS%20-%20Bob%20Jamieson.pdf

[Pemby_mess]

look, Im not saying that there isn't room for some grizzly allocations or even that we're currently doing it the wrong way. I don't know enough about it. I do know that there have been many justifications throughout history to take wildlife wantonly that have proven false and resulted in precipitous crashes in population numbers. It almost always occurs due to commercial interest of some sort and its influence on prudent management systems. Grizzlies are most surely vulnerable to the same especially when you factor the greatest threats to their numbers and compound them.

All the research I have read points to declining genetic diversity in the southern rockies - not directly related to hunting - but to fragmentation.

[Pemby_mess]

This is a presentation worth reading


http://bcwf.net/images/stories/AGM2015/Presentations/MULTI-PREDATOR%20MULTI-PREY%20SYSTEMS%20IN%20THE%20ROCKY%20MOUNTAINS%20-%20Bob%20Jamieson.pdf
k, ill read it, thanks

[Ozone]

I don't know enough about it.

That's quite apparent from your posts.

[Gateholio]

Directly yes, but the animal is iconic enough to bring folks here just to have a chance at seeing them while engaged in other wilderness activities. I agree, its only in those areas where specified grizzly viewing tours operate that you can attempt to put a commercial value on a grizz. However if the numbers decline to the point where its no longer feasible to be around bears so will mucho tourism dollars to "Supernatural BC" decline along with them. Hunting is not the primary pressure but its certainly number two when it comes to grizzly numbers and if the voice of commercial enterprise dictates management decisions, it spells disaster.



Yes I am aware of that, thank you.

There is a better opportunity to see grizzlies right now than there has been in the last 40 years. Grizzly populations have been steadily increasing in BC. Southern BC has seen a dramatic increase in grizzly numbers.

Grizzlies are the most heavily studied big game animal in BC, there is tonnes of data on them. The current LEH seasons on them are more than sustainable, they are actually ultra-conservative.

[Pemby_mess]

That's quite apparent from your posts.

That's pretty passive aggressive. Care to expand? Do you have anything to contribute other than your shallow, one liner critique?

[Pemby_mess]

This is a presentation worth reading


http://bcwf.net/images/stories/AGM2015/Presentations/MULTI-PREDATOR%20MULTI-PREY%20SYSTEMS%20IN%20THE%20ROCKY%20MOUNTAINS%20-%20Bob%20Jamieson.pdf

IDK 325

I went through it, and I think you might be proving my point for me; ie in this case a pseudo commercial interest making the case to protect elk at the ex[ense of the grizz population through sketchy data and even sketchier assumptions from that data

As I read, It felt very salesy and forcibly persuasive. which makes me skeptical immediately.

- it uses 4500 as a GB population estimate and i cant find anything close to that from traditional sources (That number must include the larger Northern Rocky pops that would seem to have little bearing on their study area or subsequent analysis)
-900 for the elk valley which doesnt seem to jive with the ministry's reports at all.
- lots of poorly linked anecdotes
- It cites an unexplained decline in elk numbers where predator populations remain low (montana) during support of its contrarian thesis; more predators = more elk mortality
-Its conclusion recommends taking more cats despite them being insignificant in the elk mortality numbers.
- it talks about complete collapse of the migratory herd without so much as mentioning the habitat corridors that have collapsed collaterally
-It essentially ignores "other variables considered" assuming summer drought cycles would have an effect only on migratory elk. Really? Obviously drought is going to drive predation up across the entire population in the late summer/fall exactly where the study claims to see increased mortality. This and habitat fragmentation is going to increase Grizzly predation due to decreased movement of herd. Grizzlies arent true predators anyways yet obviously very opportunistic and exploitive.

I was using articles below to reaffirm what Ive read for years:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wildlife/wsi/reports/5160_WSI_5160_RPT_SOUTHERN_ROCKIES_V6.PDF
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1559960/

Ie that many seemingly healthy Grizz populations are actually quite vulnerable and at somewhat significant risk of extirpation.

[325]

You obviously have made up your mind about grizzly hunting.

As for grizzlies not being true predators, that's not true. Yes, grizzlies are omnivores, but they are highly efficient predators in the right circumstance. I remember reading a study out of Alaska that found that over 40% of moose calves were killed by grizzlies.

Black bears can also be very efficient predators. I had a discussion this spring with a patient of mine who's son is doing his graduate degree studying a particular population of elk in Alberta. The population of the herd in question has plummeted from several thousand to a few hundred. His study has found that the reason for the decline is poor recruitment due to heavy predation by black bears. I know these data don't jive very well with the disneyfied view many people have.

Back to grizzly hunting....despite robust populations, harvest levels are kept very low. If grizzly populations decline in the future I'm confident it won't be from over-hunting. Personally, I think there are too many grizzlies in some areas. 25 years ago I seldom had grizzly encounters while hunting. Now I have them nearly every year, including being charged on three occasions and numerous bears coming into hunting camp over the last 9 years.

There are definitely things we need to change to help our provincial megafauna populations, but ending the grizzly hunt is not one of them.

[Weatherby Fan]

The hunting community needs a voice. A loud one. We need to articulate what hunting is all about.

These videos, taken out of context and with no foundation of understanding, fuel the fire and create more antis. These antis are largely meat-eaters who are completely detached from the fact that they are responsible for the deaths of many, many animals. Those deaths are often just as "horrific" as the sometimes messy deaths of wild animals.

The difference, of course, is that at least wild animals are free and live as they should while they are alive, and at least we hunters take direct responsibility for the deaths of the animals we eat. We have a direct and deep connection with these animals that we eat.

So, where is our voice? What organization should be communicating this to the public?

One of the best voices in the hunting community to come along in a long time is Eva Shockey, imho in the last few years she has done more for the acceptance of hunting than anyone, especially promoting hunting for kids and women, she's always polite, friendly and approachable, on top of all that she's a BC kid.

She always promotes eating what she shoots as a healthy option, she's first class in my books.

WF

[BCHunterTV]

hide under a rock so what we do seems less and less...and when people get wind of us hunting they use words like why when you can grocery shop or call us cruel

Stand proud and tall, hiding got us here....


I saw this on CGN as too many greenies and anti hunting people keep using the videos for their own cause.There's a black bear hunting video of a 9 year old boy being coached by his father. It's all perfectly legal as its private land.Unfortunately they are using this and other videos too make us hunters look like villains.

[bearvalley]

All the research I have read points to declining genetic diversity in the southern rockies - not directly related to hunting - but to fragmentation.

If this declinine in genetic diversity is not due to hunting is it due to overpopulation?

[bearvalley]

My belief is as hunters we should be proud of what we do. Not go hide under a rock. We also need to be respectful in how we portray ourselves to the public, and that includes making sure any images made public are appropriate. Not everyone floats in the same boat.
BC needs to maintain open seasons on grizzlies, black bears and wolves. It crucial to wildlife management in this province that predators do not make it to an untouchable level. How can you manage and keep a stable ungulate population with no management to carnivores? It cannot be done unless we want to go through a system of peaks and crashes to both predators and prey alike.
One thing very noticeable is that whenever the Anti hunters start to rally and make noise there is always a lead group loading the bullets. In the recent bear issue the WDL is the driver. In others it's been PETA..etc. What we really need to put forth is that these radical groups do absolutely nothing for wildlife or wildlife management in British Columbia. All these groups do is solicit funds so that a few of the "elite environmentalists" that seem to be at the forefront of these campaigns can live in style. JMO

[markt308]

I make my hunting vids and I really enjoy going back to look at them, and lot's of other hunters enjoy them too as I get lots of positive feedback. I try to keep them very tasteful, and I actually do keep "the non-hunter" in mind while I make them in order to not lose perspective of what it would be like to watch them from that standpoint. I hope that when you watch them you can see my appreciation for nature and the respect I have for the animals.
This season I will absolutely include the process of putting the food on the table because I agree that is crucial to share that part, and I am sad to say I have yet to do that in one of my videos, but i will change that going forward.
As for stopping sharing hunting videos? ha! not a chance. by that logic we may as well shut this site down. no pics, vids, or stories; all to please those who will always strive to suppress our rights as hunters. Be proud, but respectful about it.

[rocksteady]

I will not hide my passion for hunting from anyone, be it in person or through social media. If they don't like it tough shit.

[Pemby_mess]

If this declinine in genetic diversity is not due to hunting is it due to overpopulation?

No, best guess is due to collapsing travel corridors isolating groups of bears. This doesn't reduce the population in itself but simply makes them more vulnerable to other threats such as disease, fluctuating prey numbers, male-cub predation, and human conflict/over hunting.

Its not a black or white thing. These are cumulative pressures that apex species are particularly vulnerable too.

[bearvalley]

Its not a black or white thing. These are cumulative pressures that apex species are particularly vulnerable too.
I'm not trying to be argumentive, but are any apex predators in this province at risk right know due to hunting?
I tend to like black or white answers. Never was a fan of grey. Guessing is grey.

[Pemby_mess]

You obviously have made up your mind about grizzly hunting.

Actually no. I have not made up my mind at all - hence my participation in discussion with you;). (Its how I learn, unfortunately). I am a proponent of the precautionary principle in this case, which involves a higher margin for error and lower tolerance to risk than say a commercial entity that makes its livelihood from the promotion of GBs as economic opportunities. I think at this point, I support a limited Resident Only GB LEH, and only in certain areas of the province. If thats not fully subscribed or has low hunter success, only then open allocations to outfitters. Yes, makes it tough to plan a business around but thats kind of the point.


As for grizzlies not being true predators, that's not true. Yes, grizzlies are omnivores, but they are highly efficient predators in the right circumstance. I remember reading a study out of Alaska that found that over 40% of moose calves were killed by grizzlies.

Agreed, and its what I said in my response to the presentation notes you linked me. Ie; if your seeing high predation by bears, there could very likely be something else going on that is giving them higher than average opportunity. Drought would be a good example, so would disease in a herd of ungulates I gather.



to grizzly hunting....despite robust populations, harvest levels are kept very low. If grizzly populations decline in the future I'm confident it won't be from over-hunting. Personally, I think there are too many grizzlies in some areas. 25 years ago I seldom had grizzly encounters while hunting. Now I have them nearly every year, including being charged on three occasions and numerous bears coming into hunting camp over the last 9 years.
There are definitely things we need to change to help our provincial megafauna populations, but ending the grizzly hunt is not one of them.

It does definitely seem like Grizzly encounters are rising, everywhere in the province. Their numbers are increasing in areas in which they had been historically extirpated from. Could bode well for pop numbers or show certain pops under increasing pressure I suppose.

I know BC certainly has many healthy GB pops and lots of healthy habitat connectivity - but that doesn't apply to the whole province. I think we some times underestimate the needs of such animals and our regs should use a modicum of restraint in how the resource is promoted, and ultimately exploited.

[Looking_4_Jerky]

My don't like it don't watch it thought process for the anti hunters is the same thought process for us hunters . If you don't like what the antis have to say then don't scroll down and read the comments. Hunting is here to stay. All those hypocrite hippies can go F%<k themselves

IslandBC, I wish I was as confident in that statement as you are. In fact, I would question whether that false sense of security is a good sense to have. It's like the tough guy who beats on another dude and when he's done says' "Who's next? Who wants a piece of me? Who wants a piece of the champ"? You just know that arrogance pulls every other fighter out of the woodwork and people will make it their journey to bring the cocky dude down.

Fighting to keep the privileges you have is one thing. Saying that you'll fight till your last breath to keep them is fine. Saying nobody will ever take you down is overconfident, even naive perhaps.

Don't misunderstand me, IslandBC. I'll have your back if and when our hunting privileges are threatened. But quite honestly, I'd rather put my energy and effort into deciding where and when my next hunt is going to than how to win a war over a growing contingent of society. Contrary to what you think, I don't think the anti's are all "hypocrite hippies". I think there are a hell of a bunch of well educated, influential, respected, affluent anti's that are very well versed in how to successfully lobby for their causes. They're not all hanging out on the beach pulling bong-hits and skimming peace signs at passers by. If you think Jim Shockey is an influential advocate of hunting, stack him up against hollywood celebs that are known and (sadly) worshipped by every mainstream, pop-culture loving wannabe in North America and beyond. What would Jim Shockey's audience look like compared to Miley Cyrus? One one-thousandth maybe?

[Pemby_mess]

I'm not trying to be argumentive, but are any apex predators in this province at risk right know due to hunting?
I tend to like black or white answers. Never was a fan of grey. Guessing is grey.

Not due to hunting, not to my knowledge no. There are isolated populations that cant sustain the additional pressure of hunting though, and are subsequently closed to my knowledge. They may recover or may not. With an animal like GBs, you get to a certain point in isolation, where every animal becomes very valuable for future reproduction cause they reproduce relatively slowly. Managing their numbers via harvest it then becomes easy to overshoot past the point of no return in an already isolated population. Without isolation their numbers seem to be more dynamic from what I've read. For example on the north coast, kodiak regions, north interior - cub survival markedly increases when a local population is decreased. Enhanced mobility makes sure all the regions support their carrying capacity as well. The primary threat to GBs, like most mammals is habitat integrity, not hunting; GBs just need extraordinary connectivity in large expanses of habitat to stay healthy as far as i know.

[325]

"Agreed, and its what I said in my response to the presentation notes you linked me. Ie; if your seeing high predation by bears, there could very likely be something else going on that is giving them higher than average opportunity. Drought would be a good example, so would disease in a herd of ungulates I gather."

There is absolutely no evidence that grizzly predation on young ungulates is related to systemic disease in the ungulate population. That notion is something that Farley Mowat fabricated in one of his fantasies.

The idea that drought may force grizzlies to become more predatory is nonsense. Grizzlies will always choose a high-fat/protein (animal) diet over vegetation, if the opportunities (such as spring calving season) are present.

From your posts, I gather you think the MOE is NOT using a conservative approach to grizzly hunting in BC. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The MOE is very conservative in its LEH and GO allocations. I doubt there is another big game species in North America that is harvested as conservatively as grizzlies.

If you don't like the idea of grizzly hunting, the solution is simple - don't hunt them.

[375shooter]

look, Im not saying that there isn't room for some grizzly allocations or even that we're currently doing it the wrong way. I don't know enough about it. I do know that there have been many justifications throughout history to take wildlife wantonly that have proven false and resulted in precipitous crashes in population numbers. It almost always occurs due to commercial interest of some sort and its influence on prudent management systems. Grizzlies are most surely vulnerable to the same especially when you factor the greatest threats to their numbers and compound them.

All the research I have read points to declining genetic diversity in the southern rockies - not directly related to hunting - but to fragmentation.

A possible solution for the declining genetic diversity of certain isolated populations, might be for the government to use some of our hunter dollars to capture a small number of live bears from those populations and trade them for some live bears from other regions of BC.

I would like to see that done for some other species as well, such as sheep and caribou.

[Pemby_mess]

"Agreed, and its what I said in my response to the presentation notes you linked me. Ie; if your seeing high predation by bears, there could very likely be something else going on that is giving them higher than average opportunity. Drought would be a good example, so would disease in a herd of ungulates I gather."

[QUOTE=325;1682273]There is absolutely no evidence that grizzly predation on young ungulates is related to systemic disease in the ungulate population. That notion is something that Farley Mowat fabricated in one of his fantasies.

Is the opposite true then? When systemic disease is present in a herd, grizzly predation will decrease or stay stable? The point is - With an animal like bears, predation can increase without a corresponding increase in their numbers. Or in very simplistic terms - more grizzly kills does not equal more individual grizzlies.


The idea that drought may force grizzlies to become more predatory is nonsense. Grizzlies will always choose a high-fat/protein (animal) diet over vegetation, if the opportunities (such as spring calving season) are present.

That was never said by me. There has always been a spring calving season - so that would be a stable opportunity. The question is why are more calves being taken by grizzly predation in comparison to the historical average? The hypothesis put forward is that there is a surplus in the numbers of grizzlies. Drought will not necessarily force grizzlies to become predatory, but certainly will increase their opportunities as it reduces animal movement and clusters populations, as would other factors that reduce mobility. I think though if you look at the numbers on the charts provided, you'll see a corresponding link to low snowpack/high predation/low calf survival. In fact the presentation seems to propose just that, yet discounts the correlation in "other variables considered".


From your posts, I gather you think the MOE is NOT using a conservative approach to grizzly hunting in BC. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The MOE is very conservative in its LEH and GO allocations. I doubt there is another big game species in North America that is harvested as conservatively as grizzlies.

If you don't like the idea of grizzly hunting, the solution is simple - don't hunt them.

I don't know where you're getting that from. I'll reserve judgement on whether the MOE is acting prudently WRT grizzlies or not. My concern is that commercial interests are influencing policy decisions where they should not. My wish is to see opportunities for hunting grizzlies by residents preserved and all populations to stay viable and abundant. They're not wolves after all.

[Bugle M In]

I will not hide my passion for hunting from anyone, be it in person or through social media. If they don't like it tough shit.
I don't think anybody is asking to hide it, meaning yours, mine and everyone else's passion.
But I do believe what we post should be at times a little more subjective, and trying to post pictures with a bit more taste,
and with more respect to the animal taken.
Never would I ask someone to hide what we do, just think before it is posted to as " Is this in the realm of decency"...
For the animal, and as important, to showing what it is to be a hunter, harvester of wildlife.
That's all.

[325]

"My wish is to see opportunities for hunting grizzlies by residents preserved and all populations to stay viable and abundant."

Well, this is something on which we actually agree!

[keoke]

I have young kids, oldest is 4, and I was watching some y tv with him and we were bombarded by animal right group commercials. They are getting their views engrained in kids at an early age. With the majority of the population being non hunters I'm sure that parents are not informing their children on scientific based animal management. I am not surprised that hunting videos and photos are attacked since our kids our being brainwashed from such a young age through paid ads.

[LBM]

I will not hide my passion for hunting from anyone, be it in person or through social media. If they don't like it tough shit.
Interesting then can you repost the pictures of the spike bull you took a few years back, if I remember correctly you removed them and were not going to post any more.
Would that not be hiding.

[arrow assassin]

i worked in a pork slaughter house for 6 years. i'd like to post a video of those animals being herded into the kill floor to their deaths, then post one of a deer being shot in the wild and see witch one gets more hate.People don't realize how brutal the scene can be in a slaughter house.

[rocksteady]

Interesting then can you repost the pictures of the spike bull you took a few years back, if I remember correctly you removed them and were not going to post any more.
Would that not be hiding.

i have just decided to post what I want rather than posting all.

its not hiding from the public, it's staying away from the armchair quarterbacks of HBC...

[rocksteady]

Go to my YouTube link below and see if I am hiding things from the Joe Public..,

.338 vs Whitey Doe
12 gauge vs whitey doe

they are still up and available

[BigfishCanada]

The media are trolls even here on this site, just waiting for someone to post something they can manipulate into something untrue. The more we educate ourselves on the importance to all hunting, what hunting does for conservation the more you can help the uneducated learn why and how?

[chrismcd]

Post more hunting videos . Reply to more anti hunting with common sense not anger. Explain to these people why you hunt in a nice way .
Joe Rogan has great podcast with many Hunters Jim shockey, remmi Warren, Cameron Hanes and my personal favorite Steve rinella.
Hunting is becoming extremely main stream. The other day on Anthony boudain parts unknown went to scottland I think and hunted red deer. Gutted it and everything on primetime tv .

[caddisguy]

i worked in a pork slaughter house for 6 years. i'd like to post a video of those animals being herded into the kill floor to their deaths, then post one of a deer being shot in the wild and see witch one gets more hate.People don't realize how brutal the scene can be in a slaughter house.

Exactly. I enjoy watching hunting videos and it would be an absolute shame if people stopped posting them. I get it, that things don't always go perfectly. I usually don't post fishing videos if it's full of bloopers like the line getting tangled around the prop or wife's line. If it's a crappy video, I agree, don't post it (if though even when things go wrong it's 1000x more humane than an animal being tortured for years, then rounded up and slaughtered)

I'll never stop sharing videos or watching videos. Here's a bear that did not suffer. It did not even twitch. And because we harvested it, several bear cubs got to live, another bear or two won't starve and several deer fawns will get a chance to live. It filled our freezer so less cows/chickens/pigs needed to be tortured/slaughtered. Though I could be a vegetarian, but that involves permanent destruction of prime animal habitat which passively destroys animals so they starve and future generations never even get a chance to live. No thanks.... this is the most humane/ethical food I have ever eaten and we should be inspiring new hunters to do the same:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_rimavcG8g

[LBM]

i have just decided to post what I want rather than posting all.

its not hiding from the public, it's staying away from the armchair quarterbacks of HBC...
No worrys you have your reasons for removing it that's your choice.

[skibum]

Ya like those in favour of gay marriage would think posting over the top videos of two guys going at it would 'normalize' it and make you accept it more?

You are not going normalize hunting to those on Toronto with bloody kill videos.

[REMINGTON JIM]

One of the best voices in the hunting community to come along in a long time is Eva Shockey, imho in the last few years she has done more for the acceptance of hunting than anyone, especially promoting hunting for kids and women, she's always polite, friendly and approachable, on top of all that she's a BC kid.

She always promotes eating what she shoots as a healthy option, she's first class in my books.

WF

YUP and EVA makes any video look GREAT ! :smile: RJ

[KodiakHntr]

Ya like those in favour of gay marriage would think posting over the top videos of two guys going at it would 'normalize' it and make you accept it more?

You are not going normalize hunting to those on Toronto with bloody kill videos.

Those aren't the people that are going to get accustomed to hunting no matter what... Same as you won't see many Southern Baptist ministers at a gay pride parade.

One thing that will definitely not get people accustomed to it is hiding it like we have been. Look where that's gotten us so far.....

[wideopenthrottle]

I don't know about this idea.
When I stumbled across this website about 4 years ago. I'd never hunted or shot a gun. My family didn't hunt, I'd never been friends with a hunter. I read the posts as they were open for all to see. I looked at some vids of hunting, some where tasteful, some not.
I decided to take the courses and teach myself to hunt. Now my wife and I eat deer every few days, I've shot 9 so far. 3 a year. I've always been an outdoorsmen, now I will be a life long hunter too.
Now 4 of my close friends have now got their PAL's Two of them have their CORE. Several others appreciate the meat they've eaten at my house and have expressed interest in hunting. And their attitudes about hunter have changed. We are all in our mid 20's to mid 30's from non hunting shooting families.
All this happened because I found a public forum talking the truth about hunting.
Hiding in the shadows will be the death of our sport.
Please get out and introduce novices to shooting. I do it whenever I can. Except maybe the 19 year old girl at my work has been asking to go hunting or shooting with me. (I might have to run that one by the wife first though)
Keep your heads held high,
Thank you HBC,

to some girls shooting is an aphrodisiac...seen it myself

[skibum]

Those aren't the people that are going to get accustomed to hunting no matter what... Same as you won't see many Southern Baptist ministers at a gay pride parade.

One thing that will definitely not get people accustomed to it is hiding it like we have been. Look where that's gotten us so far.....

I don't disagree - but you have to have some smarts about how it is approached. I think some people will never accept hunting, but if hunting is shown in a respectful manor, with all hunters do for conservation, the non-loony will accept it more.

[Sofa King]

to some girls shooting is an aphrodisiac...seen it myself

especially those hot loads.

[Sofa King]

no way I'd stop posting pics or vids of hunting or fishing or whatever just because some people were against them.
but I also wouldn't post terrible shit just to show it either.
those guys could have edited that vid to show the grizz simply harvested at the end of it all.
they didn't have to show the bad shots and the whole event.
I have a great salmon fight on vid, but won't ever post it as some would bitch about some of it.
nothing bad was done, and the person would never face any wrong-doing, but huggers would surely create a stink and whine, so I keep it to myself.
like someone else said, anti remarks and opinions are only relevant if you pay attention to them and go out of your way to read them.
it doesn't interest me so I don't see it.
my time is too precious and short to waste it worrying about people we don't even want to know.
hunting isn't going to disappear in my lifetime, so that's all that matters to me.
some will find that greedy and so on, but I don't really care about that either.
I care about what affects me personally, not what might happen 30 years after I'm dust in the wind.
if I had children like many of you's do, I'm sure I'd feel differently about it, as I'd be concerned for their futures.