Slug or buckshot

[Canadian276]

im heading out tomorrow morning in an area labeled as "No Rifle" are. I know that means shot gun or bow only. It DOES NOT specify if its single projectile prohibited. Is it safe to assume I can use Slug instead of buckshot. Help is greatly appreciated ASAP.

Thanks

[GotaGun]

No rifle.?
Are u sure it wasn't no single projectile.
Wich means shot only. No slugs?

[brian]

No one here can specify for you if you don't post the area you are heading to. However, if it mapA15 in region 1-1... then that is how I would read it. Outside of 1-1 then it is buckshot no slugs.

[GotaGun]

Usually listed as:
Shot only ( 8 or more projectiles )
Bow only bow/ crossbow
No shooting area = no guns

More details would help= area ? Days? Page you are looking at☺

[TPK]

I've always followed the school of thought that using a single projectile (slug) means your shotgun is now a rifle.

[bc_buckshot]

Always buckshot

[Canadian276]

ive got permission in the southern gulf islands. Page 28 says the discharge of rifles is prohibited on the gulf island except james, valdes and Sidney island but im not heading to any of them.

[GotaGun]

See it = i read it as no firearm use.
Just my 2 cents.

Call local CO and clarify.

[scotty30-06]

As a CO told me that if it's a single projectile then it's a rifle...especially hence a rifled slug....i would go with a heavy buckshot if you want better distance

[Canadian276]

As a CO told me that if it's a single projectile then it's a rifle...especially hence a rifled slug....i would go with a heavy buckshot if you want better distance

wouldn't it specify shot only like the rest of the synopsis does though?

[FirePower]

You can argue black is white when it is really gray, but why would you not play it safe and call the area CO service. When you get an answer also get the name and 'badge' number of the one giving you the information

[Sharpish]

If you're on the southern gulf islands its shotgun only with minimum bore size of 20 gauge and 8 or more pellets of minimum #1 BUCK pellet size to hunt blacktails. I was on Galiano today and found a couple beauty spots! :-)

[Sharpish]

I also noticed the regs changed online. Now the antlerless season for southern gulf islands is Nov1-Nov10. Bucks are still open Sept10-dec10. This is different than what is in the paper regs

[brian]

If you're on the southern gulf islands its shotgun only with minimum bore size of 20 gauge and 8 or more pellets of minimum #1 BUCK pellet size to hunt blacktails. I was on Galiano today and found a couple beauty spots!

I am am really curious where does it say that? This is an honest question because I haven't been able to find any mention of it in the regs. Is it local bylaw?

As for shotguns using slugs are considered rifles, I don't buy it. The regs have numerous mentions of "shot only" and "no single projectile" and "rifle prohibited" areas, but absolutely nowhere does it mention that shotguns becomes rifles when using slugs. Why make all these designations if it a mute point? Why not spell out specifically that shotguns must use shot to be used in a rifle prohibited area? Why not designate all rifle prohibited areas as bow or shot only areas?

[TPK]

....As for shotguns using slugs are considered rifles, I don't buy it.

So make the call to the CO's office and find out for yourself just how wrong you are .. don't take our word for it! :smile:

[Sharpish]

The idea is that these areas are small and populated. A miss or pass through shot with just about any centerfire rifle could carry on half a mile and kill someone. Shot slows down and loses energy quickly, making it safe within a couple hundred yards. I think a slug would be similar to a centerfire rifle, it would carry less energy down range but with the right angle it could travel a long distance and because of the weight still carry enough energy to kill a long way away.

There are many tiny typos and inconsistencies in the regs, and with a good lawyer you could probably win the case $25 000 later. I would just use buckshot and not have to stress about it. These areas on the gulf islands are pretty thick bush. There isn't any more logging. Unless you are sitting in a blind on someones farm you are probably walking a game trail and making a 20 yard shot.

[Foxton Gundogs]

I am am really curious where does it say that? This is an honest question because I haven't been able to find any mention of it in the regs. Is it local bylaw?

As for shotguns using slugs are considered rifles, I don't buy it. The regs have numerous mentions of "shot only" and "no single projectile" and "rifle prohibited" areas, but absolutely nowhere does it mention that shotguns becomes rifles when using slugs. Why make all these designations if it a mute point? Why not spell out specifically that shotguns must use shot to be used in a rifle prohibited area? Why not designate all rifle prohibited areas as bow or shot only areas?

So what if they have a rifled slug barrel attached on your 12 ga?? Would not then have a .73 calibre rifle.

[Foxton Gundogs]

You can argue black is white when it is really gray, but why would you not play it safe and call the area CO service. When you get an answer also get the name and 'badge' number of the one giving you the information

Best post of the entire thread.

[brian]

So make the call to the CO's office and find out for yourself just how wrong you are .. don't take our word for it!

So what if they have a rifled slug barrel attached on your 12 ga?? Would not then have a .73 calibre rifle.

I've poured over the regs, the Wildlife act, and the Federal Firearms act. None of them actually define what is a rifle or a shotgun. And slug use in shotguns is not mentioned at all. So how is the CO supposed to be the ultimate arbiter of this issue? I bet you if you ask 3 different CO's you'll get three different answers because it is not clearly defined by law. Maybe they could have a case with a rifled bore shotgun, but what if someone is using a smooth bore with a rifled slug or choke? Also the regs clearly lay out areas designated as no single projectile and rifle prohibited... sometimes on the same map (see A15). Maybe you guys are right and this is how the CO's are operating, but I do not see the basis for it. In the end it doesn't matter to me, I hunt shot only zones so that's what I use. That is probably what I would use if I headed into the shotgun only zones on the islands.

[Canadian276]

I have a phone conference with the ministry of environment fish and wildlife branch tomorrow afternoon. I'll be sure to take all the notes I can. Any questions you guys would like me to get clarified with regards to confusion in the regs?

[TPK]

.... how is the CO supposed to be the ultimate arbiter of this issue? I bet you if you ask 3 different CO's you'll get three different answers because it is not clearly defined by law.

They are the ones that will issue you the ticket/fine for using your shotgun with a single projectile in a no rifle area. The ultimate "arbitrator of the issue" will be the judge at your trial and guess who's opinion will hold more weight as to if your "shotgun" was being used as a shotgun with multiple projectiles (aka shot) or if it was used as a rifle (firing a single projectile)?? ... yours or the CO's?

I bet if you ask 10 CO's you will get the EXACT SAME ANSWER from all 10, put a slug in your shotgun and it's a rifle.

When in doubt, ask yourself what the intent of the law/regulation is and if you're "interpretation" of it is following that or going against it.

[brian]

The intent of the law is to minimize the potential for accidental injury. Slugs with their poor ballistic trajectory fulfill this function. With a 70 yard zero they will drop somewhere around 14" by 150 yards. Rifles By comparison will drop only a couple inches by 200 with a 100 yard zero. They only see shotgun levels of bullet drop by 300-400 yards. There is no arguing that buck shot will fill this role better but slugs are a reasonable alternative to rifles where public safety is a concern.


The ultimate "arbitrator of the issue" will be the judge at your trial and guess who's opinion will hold more weight as to if your "shotgun" was being used as a shotgun with multiple projectiles (aka shot) or if it was used as a rifle (firing a single projectile)?? ... yours or the CO's? They are still responsible to the law. If somebody could politely point me to where any of this is written in the law I would be happy to concede the point. But I'll tell you what, next time I see my CO friend I'll ask him about it and see what he has to say on the issue and why. If I remember then I'll post then.

[Foxton Gundogs]

The intent of the law is to minimize the potential for accidental injury. Slugs with their poor ballistic trajectory fulfill this function. With a 70 yard zero they will drop somewhere around 14" by 150 yards. Rifles By comparison will drop only a couple inches by 200 with a 100 yard zero. They only see shotgun levels of bullet drop by 300-400 yards. There is no arguing that buck shot will fill this role better but slugs are a reasonable alternative to rifles where public safety is a concern.

They are still responsible to the law. If somebody could politely point me to where any of this is written in the law I would be happy to concede the point. But I'll tell you what, next time I see my CO friend I'll ask him about it and see what he has to say on the issue and why. If I remember then I'll post then.

You can argue the point with us till you are blue in the face but for a proper answer it must be tried in court and I'm betting you would not like the outcome but who knows.

[brian]

You can argue the point with us till you are blue in the face but for a proper answer it must be tried in court and I'm betting you would not like the outcome but who knows.
Nah for a proper answer to this question I finally got around to asking my CO friend about this over some beers tonight. He said No, the whole shotgun being considered a rifle if its being used with slugs is full of sh*t. Now he is one of the guys who actually enforces the rules in these zones. Actually he runs the team of guys who enforce the rules in this area. SO I think it is fair to take his word for it. No Rifle means no rifles, shotguns with slugs are fine. No single projectile means shot only as is clearly spelled out in the regs. You are not going to get a ticket for using a slug in a rifle prohibited area.

[boxhitch]

How many beers before he answered the question ? Ask for the statement on paper.


Maybe they could have a case with a rifled bore shotgun, but what if someone is using a smooth bore with a rifled slug or choke?They call it 'rifled' for a reason. Rifling imparts spin which aids in accuracy. It doesn't change power levels.
imo A slug gun shoots slugs , a shotgun by definition shoots shot.

[Gateholio]

Shooting shot out of a rifle doesn't change its status to shotgun. It's still a rifle. Shooting a slug from a shotgun doesn't magically make it a rifle. I don't know where some of these ideas come from?

If you are in a no single projectile area, use shot. If it's a no rifle area, use a shotgun with slugs or shot.

[brian]

How many beers before he answered the question ?
We were on our second when I remembered to ask him, so no one was sloppy.

Ask for the statement on paper.
Why would I do that? Regardless of your humble opinion shotguns using slugs are legal in rifle prohibited areas. There was no question of rifling in barrels or slugs. Do what Gatehouse says and you'll be fine.

[RBH]

Hmmm...interesting question (even if a bit academic at this point). The regs (p.28.) say: "The discharge of rifles is prohibited in MU 1-1 except on Valdes Island, Sidney Island and James Island (and except by permit elsewhere)." I didn't see "rifle" defined in the regs but it is generally defined as a firearm with a rifled barrel, as clearly confirmed in the CORE manual (p.162). Rifling extends the range of the ammunition, which is a relevant concern if MU1-1. Accordingly, for what its worth, IMHO you should be able to rely on the wording of the regulation and, therefore, there is no reason not use a slug. If they wanted to say buckshot only they could have done so. It is not your job to second guess the regs; it is your job to obey them.

[brian]

By legal president in other jurisdictions a firearm can also be defined by the cartridge it shoots rather than individual characteristics. Canada nor BC have any such legal clarification so the de facto definition here seems to be shotguns are defined as shooting shotgun shells whereas rifles shoot rifle cartridges. All further area restrictions are then simply governed by the regs.

[TPK]

Nah for a proper answer to this question I finally got around to asking my CO friend about this over some beers tonight. He said No, the whole shotgun being considered a rifle if its being used with slugs is full of sh*t. Now he is one of the guys who actually enforces the rules in these zones. Actually he runs the team of guys who enforce the rules in this area. SO I think it is fair to take his word for it. No Rifle means no rifles, shotguns with slugs are fine. No single projectile means shot only as is clearly spelled out in the regs. You are not going to get a ticket for using a slug in a rifle prohibited area.

Well I stand corrected .. once again!! Good to know, I had asked the local CO but not heard back yet ... and reading your comments makes it clear and easy to understand, so thanks for that. It's clear I now I was confused! lol