Permit to Accompany.....Thank You BC

[ishootbambi]

I'm sure most of you have seen my thread on my recent mountain goat hunt in your province.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?120622-This-Really-Gets-My-Goat

I hunted with my brother in law on a Permit to Accompany. I sure do appreciate being able to do so and hope the program goes on unchanged. As an Albertan, it sure isn't my place to tell you guys how to run things over there, but given the recent battles you guys have had with GOABC, I would like to throw my support behind those fighting to preserve things the way they are. I saw the thread last month from an out of province TV host begging for someone to help them get a hunt on the cheap for commercial gain. I'm not convinced that is within the spirit of the intent of the program but I suppose it is a legal loophole for those willing. What I did certainly is following the spirit of the program. For that reason, if it helps as an argument in favour of preserving things, by all means please feel free to use that thread as an example. And thanks again to BC for welcoming a fellow Canadian to enjoy your great province.

I should also point out up front that I am NOT against the outfitting industry. I have several friends that are guides and outfitters and I don't wish for this to turn into an outfitter bashing fest.

[twunt]

I also am thankful for the opportunity as an AB resident to come hunt this wonderful province. 3rd year in a row hunting elk in the kootneys with the father in law. 340$ is a small price to pay for the NR elk tag.

Isb...great trip report. Thanks for sharing.

[tuner]

You may not have anything against the GOABC, but there many within it,that want to see the permit to accompany scrapped.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

You may not have anything against the GOABC, but there many within it,that want to see the permit to accompany scrapped.

Absolutely! And they are continuously lobbying to get more restrictions in place for PTA's.

Glad you enjoyed your hunt ISB!!!

[XPEIer]

How did you feel about your host having to pay royalties to the Government?

That is my peeve with the entire system, they say we are being treated as guides and therefore we must pay the royalty, but we have no way of passing that along to our "clients" / family. This is nothing but a cash grab off of the wildlife harvested.

Xpeier

[budismyhorse]

great thread.....

The BCWF supports your position and opinions fellas. Believe me, the PTA's aren't going anywhere without a fight.

[Fisher-Dude]

great thread.....

The BCWF supports your position and opinions fellas. Believe me, the PTA's aren't going anywhere without a fight.

I wonder if a generous donation to the Liberal Party of BC would help in that fight? 8-)

[ishootbambi]

I am aware that GOABC isn't my friend on THIS issue. I also am aware that guides and outfitters ARE friends to all of us in the continual fight to preserve our hunting rights on several other issues. Again, I can't just hate them all for one sticking point. I'm sure some are wondering so I'll clarify that no I am not nor have ever been a guide. I think some don't realize that even though some greasy snakes are involved in the industry, got the most part the people involved are just like the rest of us...guys who just really love hunting and the outdoors and have chosen to try to make a living at it.

At any rate, I hope to see Canadians hunting in other provinces continuing without mandatory use of outfitters. Honestly I'd like to see requirements even eased. I'm not sure hosting is even necessary to be honest. If that's how restrictions are needed to limit non res hunting I would rather see limits on tags available, but for now I thinks the important thing is just not to go backwards in regards to this freedom.

I think it's great that the opportunity to hire some help exists for those that choose to. Sometimes it's the expertise, sometimes it's for the equipment needed...whatever the reason for choosing an outfitter to hunt with, I think that should be the important detail...that it is a choice. I don't understand why it is mandated.


I think the most simple and succinct statement I can make to argue the point of not having to use outfitter services is this....

Hunting has always been about enjoying time in the field with family and friends any staying in tune with our heritage as hunting prividers for our families much more than it is about just killing animals or acquiring trophies. There is no hunting trip for any species anywhere that I would choose to hire a stranger to spend that time with rather than my friends and family.

Ive never heard a statement that compelling as to why the use of an outfitter is the law.

[ishootbambi]

How did you feel about your host having to pay royalties to the Government?

That is my peeve with the entire system, they say we are being treated as guides and therefore we must pay the royalty, but we have no way of passing that along to our "clients" / family. This is nothing but a cash grab off of the wildlife harvested.

Xpeier

I had no problem at all paying that royalty. We filled out the paperwork before I left BC on a weekend. My sister in law dropped it off at Service BC on Monday and they called me Thursday and I took care of it by credit card. As a non res I expect costs to be a little higher for a hunting trip and that is just part of it. The wildlife of British Columbia belongs to its citizens and the province as a whole needs to be compensated. My licensing was right around 450 and the royalty 150 more. I have no issue with that at all. I looked around and couldn't find anything stating that the host had to pay that fee. I'm sure if that was the case that Service BC would have been looking to my BIL for payment but they took it from me no trouble. The royalty is for the animal, not guiding fees. If unsuccessful I would pay nothing after the hunt.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

A lot of us residents would love to see non-resident Canadians AND non-resident aliens being able to apply for LEH for more restricted species. And make it their option to hire a guide or not(like a lot of states). Needless to say, there's a bit of resistance to that idea.

[ishootbambi]

Could not agree more Steve. At least in BC the majority of your hunting can be done on public land. In Alberta the allocation system has lead to a lot of private land being locked up with outfitters paying for sole access. It isn't legal but it happens regularly. I presented proof once to the local fish cops and offered to carry a live camera in to record an actual financial transaction. I was brushed off. Found out later that a CO and a biologist were in on the deal and didn't want their hunting area disturbed or cause trouble for that landowner. I was just a young guy then and didn't know better. Today I would find someone higher in government and law enforcement to really raise some schit.

It makes me sick to see non res TV hosts bragging how they can buy tags every year while Albeta residents wait upwards of 5 years to draw tags. Outfitters argue they have to sell hunts in advance of their business may hurt. So?!?! Are we in a free market or not. My business is based on another of Albertas natural resources. Prices aren't good right now and I'm watching guys around me going tits up but outfitters figure they should have a guarantee from the government to run a business selling something belonging to all of us? The founders of wildlife management wanted to ensure that all citizens had equal access to the public resource, but somewhere along the line we let it get forked up.

[ishootbambi]

How did you feel about your host having to pay royalties to the Government?

That is my peeve with the entire system, they say we are being treated as guides and therefore we must pay the royalty, but we have no way of passing that along to our "clients" / family. This is nothing but a cash grab off of the wildlife harvested.

Xpeier


I had no problem at all paying that royalty. We filled out the paperwork before I left BC on a weekend. My sister in law dropped it off at Service BC on Monday and they called me Thursday and I took care of it by credit card. As a non res I expect costs to be a little higher for a hunting trip and that is just part of it. The wildlife of British Columbia belongs to its citizens and the province as a whole needs to be compensated. My licensing was right around 450 and the royalty 150 more. I have no issue with that at all. I looked around and couldn't find anything stating that the host had to pay that fee. I'm sure if that was the case that Service BC would have been looking to my BIL for payment but they took it from me no trouble. The royalty is for the animal, not guiding fees. If unsuccessful I would pay nothing after the hunt.

I owe you an apology sir. You have it right. I misunderstood the explanation I got over that royalty. I ponied up back on Sept 1, but only today did I get a receipt for payment. It states clearly that the royalty is in fact directly for the accompany permit. In fact the fine print says I must pay up within 10 days of the end of the hunt and further it states that even if the trip got cancelled that I would still owe the royalty.

Again I apologize for my misunderstanding. Now as for the fee, as the hunter I can in fact pay it, and not a must for the host. I gotta say it makes no sense to me. It would be more simple to just add it to the price of the tag...but hey...when does government make any sense? So...600 dollars for all fees associated with the licensing. I still have no problem with that. I don't pay taxes or do much to support your economy in your province so it darn sure should cost me more to hunt there. Again, that goat belongs to you people as a whole and you deserve to get fair value for it. Alberta could take a lesson there.

[Buckmeister]

It states clearly that the royalty is in fact directly for the accompany permit. In fact the fine print says I must pay up within 10 days of the end of the hunt and further it states that even if the trip got cancelled that I would still owe the royalty.



Can you provide where this "fine print" is. I am in the process of learning what is needed for a permit, and I just reviewed the 'Accompanied Hunt Report Form' and on the second page it says this as the heading:
RECORD ALL WILDLIFE HUNTED FOR, WHETHER SUCCESSFUL OR NOT.
Royalties are payable only for animals killed by the accompanied hunter(s)

Sounds to me like the royalty is only called for if a kill is made?

[ishootbambi]

Yea Buck that's what I read first and how I understood it. Sigh...I was right the first time. No kill no fee. I skimmed that receipt and wording is confusing. It actually says the hunt report had to be filled out within 10 days whether I hunted or not and royalty due in the same time. It's on the next page that royalties only apply to a kill. I guess I did have it correct the first time around. That means you are getting it correct as well. I'd post the receipt but too much personal info if ya know what I mean. Sorry for the confusion, sometimes my mouth works before my brain does. Usually typing allows the brain to catch up but you caught me, lol.