Klappan Railgrade Report

[.330 Dakota]

Spent the long weekend scouting the Klappan Railgrade and surrounding area. Absolutely beautiful country.
The railgrade has been fixed and we drove the pickup in 2 wheel drive all the way to 132km or just past the Didene Portage route. Saw 2 moose while there. Thats the good news. Now heres the bad news.
The Indians have rebuilt their blockade camp and the hwy entrance to Ealue Lake Rd, and are planning to blockade it by moose season opener which is Aug 15th. They will have it in place until the end of the season.
I did chat with a couple of them that said they are doing this because we have over harvested the moose in there and that they cant even get they're moose. I politely suggested that if they were correct,,then they shared some of that blame and should own it as well,,,and stop hunting in there along with us. That wasnt received well. Fair is fair,,logic is logic,,,if the moose are at risk close it for everyone,,,if not then leave well enough alone. So looks like the scout trip was a waste of time and money,,I guess we will have to go elsewhere. So now the Chilcotin is run by the natives, and the Skeena,,wont be long they will be asking us to leave BC. Wheres our Govt in all this,,,it has to stop.

[Everett]

Yea its whiteys fault there is no moose nothing to do with the local scum shooting moose year long including cows. I really hope one these days a hunter loses it and kills every bugger on a blockade might actually make the government deal with this crap.

[BromBones]

I did chat with a couple of them that said they are doing this because we have over harvested the moose in there and that they cant even get they're moose.

:)

When they started blocking the road a couple years ago, counts were approx. 80 bulls:100 cows which is as good as moose hunting gets. That was from the Skeena Reg head bio at the time.

After that, the season was shortened for us white fellows and fewer moose taken as the blockades have limited hunting in there. Factor in the grade being consistently washed out limiting access (even for the locals), and the moose haven't exactly been hit hard in there by resident hunters.

Don't buy into their sob story about not finding moose. Head in there early spring when the Ealue road is still snow, you'll find 20-30 moose kills along the way from winter hunting. And it ain't from wolves.

[Avalanche123]

:)


Don't buy into their sob story about not finding moose. Head in there early spring when the Ealue road is still snow, you'll find 20-30 moose kills along the way from winter hunting. And it ain't from wolves.

Ditto that for Hwy 51 (Telegraph Ck),,,,which will likely get blocked again too..... Yep a double standard exists eh. :(

[.330 Dakota]

Oh ya, I know that for sure,,I was in there 3 years ago in the spring with a griz tag,,Klappan was washed out so that wrecked my hunt,,,but the moose kills were there,,,and saw a young bull alive on Ealue Lake Rd,,,,,he ran like hell when he saw us,,,wonder why eh

[.330 Dakota]

Ditto that for Hwy 51 (Telegraph Ck),,,,which will likely get blocked again too..... Yep a double standard exists eh. :(

I dont understand why our Govt allows roads to be blocked,,,if we did it, we would be arrested,,,,wheres the army???

[BromBones]

We either blockade the highway so they cant get back to town, or nuke the Klappan bridge so no one can complain about it anymore :)

[Wentrot]

We either blockade the highway so they cant get back to town, or nuke the Klappan bridge so no one can complain about it anymore :)

Agreed. The pricks should be blocked.

[.330 Dakota]

Works for me,,theres a jetboat in my future...lol

[Avalanche123]

It's all part of the Klaboona Keepers...Sure they saved the Sacred Headwaters from Industrial Development and are well supported for that initiative. Same group walks all over hunting access. They have an FB site and I refuse to "like it". I know lots of folks who stand side by side with this group because of their work keeping industrial development at bay but I don't think people realize just how much of a double standard exists. :(

[RugDoctor]

Thinking I might just blockade the local hospital just to ensure that "my kind" get the services they need. Schools next....that way I know my kids are getting the resources they need and not being held back by the lowest common denominator which turns out to be an integer....maybe follow that up with a blockade at the local Steal..er I mean Save On, and liquor store....in my neck of the woods, I know who abuses its resources more than anyone...

now read that again, and don't assume I'm white.....

[REMINGTON JIM]

Thinking I might just blockade the local hospital just to ensure that "my kind" get the services they need. Schools next....that way I know my kids are getting the resources they need and not being held back by the lowest common denominator which turns out to be an integer....maybe follow that up with a blockade at the local Steal..er I mean Save On, and liquor store....in my neck of the woods, I know who abuses its resources more than anyone...

now read that again, and don't assume I'm white.....

and you prob live in Willams Lake TOO ! :sad: RJ

[180grainer]

Setting up a blockade so the *******s can't get back to town isn't a bad idea other than who can put the time in to do that. Only way you can spend all moose season on a blockade is if you're not working and sponging off the system.......hey wait a minute.........geez, how can these guys be manning a blockade all moose season:confused:

[Wrj]

There must be situations that get right out of hand at these Road Blocks...I don't even know how I'd respond to somebody telling me I can't use a road or forest in my home Province I've paid taxes in for decades, especially after spending hundreds or thousands of dollars getting up there, planning and scouting.

[.330 Dakota]

There must be situations that get right out of hand at these Road Blocks...I don't even know how I'd respond to somebody telling me I can't use a road or forest in my home Province I've paid taxes in for decades, especially after spending hundreds or thousands of dollars getting up there, planning and scouting.

They are entitled as we all are to peaceful assembly to make a point,,,no prblem with that,,,however there should be an RCMP presence to ensure they allow people to pass,,,,stopping us is illegal,,,but I guess they dont recognize white authrity or laws,,,therefore they should not receive white money

[Mtn Wonderer]

My guess is there stopping all hunters even if your headed back there for a sheep Hunt??

[Caribou_lou]

Who fixed the road? I'm guessing it wasn't the locals.

[Fisher-Dude]

Who is the guide outfitter up there?

Is he "granted" access?

[rgn5hunt]

Who is the guide outfitter up there?

Is he "granted" access?He probably sends coffee, donuts and beer to the blockade!

[Mulehahn]

Setting up a blockade so the *******s can't get back to town isn't a bad idea other than who can put the time in to do that. Only way you can spend all moose season on a blockade is if you're not working and sponging off the system.......hey wait a minute.........geez, how can these guys be manning a blockade all moose season:confused:
Mo
Come on now, we all know that any non-native sets up a blockade you would only have to give up, 1, may be 2, hours depending on how long it would take the police to get there to shut it down. The truth is disgusting.

Blockades are illegal. The courts have said so, with numerous precedence. From Idle No More, to the Telus and CN blockades, the only reason the Moulton blockade was not illegal because the court ruled the actions were illegal since it wasn't a maintained road they could not be charged, and even when they blockade each other (Gitsxan) the courts have ruled them all illegal. The problem is the police refuse to enforce the law. Numerous judges have addressed this issue, and wonder if the rule of law has any place in Canada any more. One day this there will be another Oka but much worse. All because no one was willing to enforce the law.

[Caribou_lou]

Who is the guide outfitter up there?

Is he "granted" access?

He is most definitely not denied access. 7 stones a year and takes many Moose and Caribou.

[.330 Dakota]

the outfitter flys in i believe

[Avalanche123]

He is most definitely not denied access. 7 stones a year and takes many Moose and Caribou.

And what does that have to do with anything? I am sure some RH get through as well....

[Confused]

This is all mute at this point. As of yesterday morning the Klappan was washed out in a couple of places. Flash flooding on tuesday night and wendsday morning took out a couple spots,...... one the eaglenest bridge. definetley no truck or quad access. Major damage, and not an easy fix. Have no idea if it will be fixed.

[Whonnock Boy]

I guess this is mother natures idea of Karma. :)


This is all mute at this point. As of yesterday morning the Klappan was washed out in a couple of places. Flash flooding on tuesday night and wendsday morning took out a couple spots,...... one the eaglenest bridge. definetley no truck or quad access. Major damage, and not an easy fix. Have no idea if it will be fixed.

[.330 Dakota]

Well,,,that Im okay with,,,,if its over hunted and needs a break,,,then fine,,,,nobody should hunt it,,,native or non native,,,however I had a Accompany to Hunt Permit for that area,,,which is being changed to a different area thanks to the blockade being up,,,and while talking to the Ministry office in Smithers they let me know that they did a moose count in there last winter and that they believe the hunt is very sustainable and that the herd is in great shape,,obviously the locals are being a little greedy,,,or racist,,,whatever

[40incher]

This is all mute at this point. As of yesterday morning the Klappan was washed out in a couple of places. Flash flooding on tuesday night and wendsday morning took out a couple spots,...... one the eaglenest bridge. definetley no truck or quad access. Major damage, and not an easy fix. Have no idea if it will be fixed.


If this is accurate there may be hunters stuck on the grade West of Eaglenest Creek. It's a big creek, especially with the continued rain.

The Tahltan's caribou camp will also be inaccessible ... somewhat ironic!

[Fisher-Dude]

And what does that have to do with anything? I am sure some RH get through as well....

Is that the area you guide in?

[Avalanche123]

Is that the area you guide in?

Funny man you are. You have me in your sights now? The answer to your question is ....no.

[Caribou_lou]

And what does that have to do with anything? I am sure some RH get through as well....

Thats an odd question... I'm not sure I should even explain it to you.

Here we go. The Locals are blockading the road to keep out moose hunters. The guides in the area advertise moose hunts. Along with other animals. Don't you think if they were really concerned about the moose population they would stop the guiding and non resident trophy hunting that is happening in the area also?? Not just the resident meat hunters?

[rgn5hunt]

Lou has a very good point. If there are conservation issues with a wildlife population you would think that first nations and MOE would apply reduction s or closures on commercial users. If there is a shortage then why are foreigners even hunting?

[Avalanche123]

Thats an odd question... I'm not sure I should even explain it to you.

Here we go. The Locals are blockading the road to keep out moose hunters. The guides in the area advertise moose hunts. Along with other animals. Don't you think if they were really concerned about the moose population they would stop the guiding and non resident trophy hunting that is happening in the area also?? Not just the resident meat hunters?

No need to explain anything. I doubt the blockade has much to do with animal populations...."Locals" do not keep track of population numbers. I have no idea what the Outfitters would do and neither do you so why speculate and start rumours?

[bearvalley]

Lou has a very good point. If there are conservation issues with a wildlife population you would think that first nations and MOE would apply reduction s or closures on commercial users. If there is a shortage then why are foreigners even hunting?
The outfitter never hunts close to the road. It's left entirely for residents & FNs. The Klappan rail grade has been maintained and patched by industry users and FN interests. Now that Shell Oil is out of the picture, maybe the resident priority fund should be accessed to chip in for the Eaglenest bridge replacement and road repairs. I don't see the Tahltans building a bridge and maintaining a road for resident hunters, but maybe a working partnership....?

[Caribou_lou]

The outfitter never hunts close to the road. It's left entirely for residents & FNs. The Klappan rail grade has been maintained and patched by industry users and FN interests. Now that Shell Oil is out of the picture, maybe the resident priority fund should be accessed to chip in for the Eaglenest bridge replacement and road repairs. I don't see the Tahltans building a bridge and maintaining a road for resident hunters, but maybe a working partnership....?

They are in there every spring for Grizzly.

[Caribou_lou]

No need to explain anything. I doubt the blockade has much to do with animal populations...."Locals" do not keep track of population numbers. I have no idea what the Outfitters would do and neither do you so why speculate and start rumours?

What rumour was I starting? Any info provided are facts.

I believe there was Compulsory Inspections being ran up that way a few years back. So they have an idea of what was harvested. But the numbers gathered through the inspections didn't match what they were claiming.

[bearvalley]

They are in there every spring for Grizzly.
Really. Are you sure?

[Avalanche123]

[QUOTEWho is the guide outfitter up there?

Is he "granted" access?[/QUOTE]

Caribou Lou...it all started with the above quote...which started somewhat of a sideways drift to this thread from the OP. Things went sideways from here and it suddenly became a GO issue.

At the end of the day, it affects all of us to some degree. The "finger pointing" just gets tiresome after awhile.

[Cordillera]

The mining company fixed up the road to get their equipment out.

[Caribou_lou]

Really. Are you sure?

We have seen them in there before. So yes I'm sure.

[Caribou_lou]

[QUOTE]

Caribou Lou...it all started with the above quote...which started somewhat of a sideways drift to this thread from the OP. Things went sideways from here and it suddenly became a GO issue.

At the end of the day, it affects all of us to some degree. The "finger pointing" just gets tiresome after awhile.

This will be my last comment in regards to the Guide Outfitter in the area. Your right this thread has gone sideways.

I'm not certain if they "granted" them access. I said they have not been denied access. And the residents are. At the end of the day the Residents are being kept out and the Guides/Non Residents aren't. That's what doesn't sit well with me.

[Avalanche123]

Caribou Lou...it all started with the above quote...which started somewhat of a sideways drift to this thread from the OP. Things went sideways from here and it suddenly became a GO issue.

At the end of the day, it affects all of us to some degree. The "finger pointing" just gets tiresome after awhile.

This will be my last comment in regards to the Guide Outfitter in the area. Your right this thread has gone sideways.

I'm not certain if they "granted" them access. I said they have not been denied access. And the residents are. At the end of the day the Residents are being kept out and the Guides/Non Residents aren't. That's what doesn't sit well with me.[/QUOTE]

Anybody can fly in.... I am pretty sure the GO flies in during the fall season. And FYI....that blockade isn't there in the winter or spring.

[Caribou_lou]

Anybody can fly in.... I am pretty sure the GO flies in during the fall season. And FYI....that blockade isn't there in the winter or spring.

Im well aware of that. I've been in there in the Spring. That's when the Natives are in there Moose hunting.

[bearvalley]

Im well aware of that. I've been in there in the Spring. That's when the Natives are in there Moose hunting.
So... Both you and the outfitter are allowed access to hunt spring bears.
The blockade is put up in the fall.
The outfitter flys in because he doesn't hunt the grade. You can fly as well.
Tell me how the outfitter is wronging you. It looks like equal opportunity to me.

[kebes]

So... Both you and the outfitter are allowed access to hunt spring bears.
The blockade is put up in the fall.
The outfitter flys in because he doesn't hunt the grade. You can fly as well.
Tell me how the outfitter is wronging you. It looks like equal opportunity to me.

Of course it does ;)

[Avalanche123]

Im well aware of that. I've been in there in the Spring. That's when the Natives are in there Moose hunting.


Your logic lost me....What is your point?

[BromBones]

Outfitters on park side (Collingwoods) don't actually hunt the Klappan. They use the road to haul horses to the McEwan trailhead and that's about it.

I think it's Lone Mtn outfitters? who have the Klappan drainage in their area. They do mostly backpack and lake hunts. Not sure how much they use the railgrade for access though.

[Buck]

Outfitters on park side (Collingwoods) don't actually hunt the Klappan. They use the road to haul horses to the McEwan trailhead and that's about it.

I think it's Lone Mtn outfitters? who have the Klappan drainage in their area. They do mostly backpack and lake hunts. Not sure how much they use the railgrade for access though.

They do use the grade i met a couple of them while there.But there clients usually fly in.They also have a quad stashed in the bush up there.

[.330 Dakota]

I am going back up at the end of the month, and I plan on stopping at the blockade to have a conversation with these people. I would like them to explain their motives, and do it clearly,,and I will ask about outfitter access,,and if they've been paid to allow access

[bearvalley]

This is all mute at this point. As of yesterday morning the Klappan was washed out in a couple of places. Flash flooding on tuesday night and wendsday morning took out a couple spots,...... one the eaglenest bridge. definetley no truck or quad access. Major damage, and not an easy fix. Have no idea if it will be fixed.
This post pretty much spells it out. Blockade or no blockade!

[Caribou_lou]

Your logic lost me....What is your point?

You mentioned no blockade in the Spring or Winter. (Because they are keeping moose hunters out) I'm aware of this. I've hunted Grizzlies in there in May and witnessed local Natives shooting cows in the Spring. If you fail to see the irony in this your a lost cause.

Let me me spell it out for you Avalanche. The blockaders say moose numbers are dropping do to over hunting, yet they go on the grade in May, and shoot pregnant cows.

[180grainer]

You mentioned no blockade in the Spring or Winter. (Because they are keeping moose hunters out) I'm aware of this. I've hunted Grizzlies in there in May and witnessed local Natives shooting cows in the Spring. If you fail to see the irony in this your a lost cause.

Let me me spell it out for you Avalanche. The blockaders say moose numbers are dropping do to over hunting, yet they go on the grade in May, and shoot pregnant cows.

It's too bad this stuff couldn't be documented independently and then reported to the press. The government is clearly aware there is this type of thing going on all over BC with not only animals but fish also, but will never formally admit it. I know this from a past FOIA request I did years ago. Yet they try to sell restrictions and closures of areas for us to.....well us and the main stream. If the FN want their access to the fish and wildlife of this province to take precedence over us, then they need to start acting in a manner that shows respect for the wildlife and the ability to hunt them with out restrictions.

[.330 Dakota]

It's too bad this stuff couldn't be documented independently and then reported to the press. The government is clearly aware there is this type of thing going on all over BC with not only animals but fish also, but will never formally admit it. I know this from a past FOIA request I did years ago. Yet they try to sell restrictions and closures of areas for us to.....well us and the main stream. If the FN want their access to the fish and wildlife of this province to take precedence over us, then they need to start acting in a manner that shows respect for the wildlife and the ability to hunt them with out restrictions.

Nailed it,,my point exactly

[ElectricDyck]

When we were up there we heard the RCMP had told one guy that they could arrest the whole road block and there'd be more people there the next day. They don't have the jail space or man power to deal with it.

My personal opinion is they just don't want to inflame the situation and there just isn't enough pressure to get it opened..if there was industry wanting to get in I'm sure it would be a different story.

Last years road block looked like hippies from the lower mainland. Losers that don't care if their criminal record keeps them from their Caribbean vacation...

Edit: Soap Dodgers is what my buddy calls them...

[.330 Dakota]

When we were up there we heard the RCMP had told one guy that they could arrest the whole road block and there'd be more people there the next day. They don't have the jail space or man power to deal with it.

My personal opinion is they just don't want to inflame the situation and there just isn't enough pressure to get it opened..if there was industry wanting to get in I'm sure it would be a different story.

Last years road block looked like hippies from the lower mainland. Losers that don't care if their criminal record keeps them from their Caribbean vacation...

Edit: Soap Dodgers is what my buddy calls them...

The Red Chris Mine, has a court order that says anyone interfering or blocking Red Chris people on iether road will be arrested,,,the court order is stapled to the hydro pole at the Ealue Lake Rd entrance..

[BromBones]

The Red Chris Mine, has a court order that says anyone interfering or blocking Red Chris people on iether road will be arrested,,,the court order is stapled to the hydro pole at the Ealue Lake Rd entrance..

Funny when there's money involved eh? Imperial Metals gets a court order to clear the blockades and the cops go in and do their job. Too bad resident hunters wont get the same results.

I was coming down from Red Chris in my service truck when they put up the second blockade in the fall. 5:30 in the morning and I drive up to see a smouldering fire, a few blocks of firewood across the road, a beat up old hippie bus parked to one side, and not a soul around. I layed on the horn for a few minutes to wake one of 'em up and who should crawl out from under a tarp but David Suzuki's hippie wanna-be-native grandson. Looked like he had a rough night :) Too many hits on the peacepipe maybe.

Not much to do with the topic but I thought it was pretty funny.

[Avalanche123]

You mentioned no blockade in the Spring or Winter. (Because they are keeping moose hunters out) I'm aware of this. I've hunted Grizzlies in there in May and witnessed local Natives shooting cows in the Spring. If you fail to see the irony in this your a lost cause.

Let me me spell it out for you Avalanche. The blockaders say moose numbers are dropping do to over hunting, yet they go on the grade in May, and shoot pregnant cows.

Ha ha despite the bluntness of your point, I now get your point lol....seems like we are agreeing on the same thing. This posts turned into a shit show and it was getting hard to see the forest through the trees.

[Caribou_lou]

Its like that more often then not on this site.

[burger]

Its like that more often then not on this site.

I think it happens when a few monetary gain hunters try and justify their access to "sensitive or conservation concerned area" but then poke at the residents who are denied access. Shut up and quit pretending your martyrs like the FN do. Your out for money nothing more nothing less.

I do feel though that the GO in the area has a rapport with the FN coupled with the FN don't have the drive to go to said camps and kick them out. Easier to just sit at road entrance and keep out masses. A few get by but not the majority.

[southsider]

You mentioned no blockade in the Spring or Winter. (Because they are keeping moose hunters out) I'm aware of this. I've hunted Grizzlies in there in May and witnessed local Natives shooting cows in the Spring. If you fail to see the irony in this your a lost cause. Let me me spell it out for you Avalanche. The blockaders say moose numbers are dropping do to over hunting, yet they go on the grade in May, and shoot pregnant cows.and bulls in vellvet!!!!! Just cut there horns off, and leave all meat behind. I've seen it with my own eyes. They had four sets of antlers in the back of their pick up. Natives! And then they wonder why the moose population goes down....

[.330 Dakota]

Southsider,,,let me get this straight,,,your saying natives only took out the antlers..??

[Good Old Outdoors]

Last years road block looked like hippies from the lower mainland. Losers that don't care if their criminal record keeps them from their Caribbean vacation...

Edit: Soap Dodgers is what my buddy calls them...[/QUOTE]

I saw them as well, young college student hipsters and dreadlocked hippies who haven't showered in weeks. Those people despised us when we went to eat at the totoga lake lodge. The owner lady didn't seem too impressed with them either. My dad had to settle me down so I wouldn't stop our hunt before it even started. Its one thing to have the FN blocking us out, but non FN hippies!? Get the hell out of my way you no good brainwashed scumbags.

[.330 Dakota]

Last years road block looked like hippies from the lower mainland. Losers that don't care if their criminal record keeps them from their Caribbean vacation...

Edit: Soap Dodgers is what my buddy calls them...

I saw them as well, young college student hipsters and dreadlocked hippies who haven't showered in weeks. Those people despised us when we went to eat at the totoga lake lodge. The owner lady didn't seem too impressed with them either. My dad had to settle me down so I wouldn't stop our hunt before it even started. Its one thing to have the FN blocking us out, but non FN hippies!? Get the hell out of my way you no good brainwashed scumbags.[/QUOTE]

Interesting enough,,,after chatting with authorities,,,I find that if the hippies (non FN) are blocking the road,,dial the RCMP and they will mover them (unlawful assembly on a pubic right of way) however if the FN do it,,nope,,thats political assembly and thats allowed,,,total crap IMO

[IslandBC]

Just say there's a bunch of tanned hipsters blocking the road. They might show up .